I will be conducting some flute/whistle workshops shortly and, although the organizers wanted specific workshop themes, old workshop hands have told me to be prepared to deal with all manner of problems. I would be interested to know what flute/ whistle learners consider problems. I have been playing so long now that my own problems are mostly due to the fact that the human body ages and, alas, not an awful lot can be done about them. Any suggestions appreciated so I can prepare some material and think about possible solutions.
I'm not a flute player, but I was involved in a music school where we had lots of young flute players. I've regularly heard them ask their tutor which are the best keys to get fitted to the flute (most of them can't afford a fully keyed flute at the outset). Obviously things like where they should use cranns, triplets etc. come up, but I suppose that's a matter of individual taste within the confines of each tune. Off the top of my head, I can only remember one other issue that was related specifically to the flute - how to get a strong, sustained bottom D.
Conversely, one problem I have is: how can you get flute players to stop dribbling on your knee when they're sitting next to you?
I think your biggest challenge will be dealing with different profficiency levels. You may have to separate people in groups (beginners, intermediate, advanced). Then there is the problem that the profficiency with the instrument doesn't correlate with how much experience they have with ITM. For example, you may get people who play the flute very well, but still have a lot of trouble learning the tchunes by ear.
Thanks for the responses so far. The levels of the workshop -- intermediate/advanced has already been advertised and raw beginners will not be catered to.Tunes WILL be taught by ear. I do not teach any other way. That is settled. Time is very limited. What I need are specific technical problems; is it breathing, tone, volume, fingering, the stretch etc, etc? Ornamentation is more an aesthetic question. Just so I can prepare a few different handouts.
Conan, you take a show flyer and crumple it into a teensy ball, and you stuff it up the bottom of the flute when they're not looking... *heh* JOKING...I'm JOKING...
LongNote, dear, you're going to have to be sure you have a way figured out to 'cater' to or otherwise "handle" the folks who *think* they're intermediate/advanced and who are actually beginners in a way that won't convince them that you're a monster, as well as even possibly tactfully finding ways of getting people round to your viewpoint that by ear is the only way to fly if they're not used to that concept. Unless of course, you require an audition to get into the workshop, or if the organizers aren't familiar with the students' playing. Eight out of ten workshops I've been in or have organized have run into this trouble if I didn't personally know everyone involved and/or double check on skill level.
Hopefully you won't run into this yourself, but you might want to think about ways to be nice to people while sticking to your guns at the same time so the organizers don't get complaints about your heartlessness. It's a sure way not to get invited back.
The stuff beginning flute players are likely to be interested in (speaking from experience here) is ornamentation: rolls, and especially cranns. The trick is to get them to believe that this stuff is less important than phrasing, use of air, articulation and feel. Also, flute players like playing fast; they think it hides their mistakes.
Be upfront about what you're going to teach: technique or tchunes, or whatever. Doing a short audition in the beginning doesn't hurt. You can pretend you're letting them share their favourite tunes.
On the sensitivity thing, i think most Irish teachers are far more ruthless than American teachers. It's ok to be nice, but remember you're teaching a style of music that's played mostly in noisy pubs, and it's important to develop some thickness of skin.
From the point of view of some who plays in sessions frequented by flute players you might want to address tuning. The better players are OK, but most beginner and intermediate players tend to be sharp and get worse as the night wears on without seeming to be aware of it.
I am from Ulster and therefore even more ruthless than the average variety of Irishman. I taught at a US university for a while and was a notoriously "tough,but fair" grader. I understand all these "delicacies". Someone else is doing beginners workshops. I will be able to pack a few off to that, so crowd control doesn't bother me all that much. And I am doing at least one "all levels" workshop. Experience has taught me that in the US there is much more of an inclination for people to overestimate their ability -- in Ireland you are constantly reminded of how far you have yet to go as a musician even after years of playing. Maybe some people will reject criticism / storm out /complain / write to their Congressman/ take to the drink, but that is their business. So gimme more specifically flute-related problems, please.
Fair enough. I used to date an Ulsterman occasionally, back in my single days, and he was also proud of his ruthlessness, it seems to be an area weakness. *grin* It's nice there's a beginner workshop that you can send some off to.
I've been playin' flute for about a year now and think that my main problem is finding the right place to breath for the correct phrasing. Basically i've been going along the lines of "when you need a breath take it", and "dont take a breath where you think you should" i.e the start of a part, etc
Also a gutsy low D would be great too!
If you want to get back to me on this that would be grand!!!
Oh, and also the best way to hold a flute (i know you've all been over this in previous discussions) there seems to be a big difference in scotland to ireland about whether fingers should be straight or bent (on either hand) - i'm always wondering about this and ended up at the conclusion that i should just do whatever feels the best for me.
If you get any classical flute players with their silver jobs a problem that can arise is the F# fingering...as most trad tunes use F# frequently and on the Irish flute it's straight forward but on the silver version the F# is (ooo oxo) or (ooo oox) which can be uneven on quick passages.
Hi, I have a new teacher who is helping me address these issues:
1) Strong Irish rhythm - accenting the right notes in a phrase
2) Getting my high notes to sound less "hooty" and more focused. Being able to get good clean high notes without increased breath, as you might do on a whistle.
3) Glottal stops in lieu of tonguing
4) Phrasing- breathing without interupting the melody
Yes, that's what i mean by "phrasing, use of air, articulation and feel". Of course, there are different styles, and some players use more air than others, some players use air to articulate while others (Matt Molloy) use mostly ornamentation for the same purpose.
But within the different styles, Irish flute players playing wooden conical flutes use more air than classical players playing Boehm flutes, and the articulation is different (less tongue, more glottal). Et cetera...
Good stuff and thanks so far! I, like many other Irish musicians, was never taught to play, but rather learned to play. Consequently, I am not quite sure "how" I do certain things. And, of course, acquired several bad habits in the process. At least, I can stop them imitating those. Trouble is I have so little time for each workshop and if it says "advanced", then that's what it is. However, I want to draw up a general advice handout for flute problems which I can give to participants I may have to turn away. I'll be around for the whole weekend, so, no doubt, I will do a few informal (unpaid!!) workshops too. See, not so ruthless after all.
My previous post about F# problems (you probably spotted the deliberate mistake!) should be (xxx oxo) or (xxx oox).
This is more of a problem if someone comes to the Boehm flute after learning the D whistle where the F# is (xxx xoo)
Some of the biggest flute problems I am aware of are:
Tone quality(support of the sound), tuning, and phrasing.
In the past I mostly heard weak sound, so I taught how to get a full sound. More recently I have heard people that play too loud. If you can teach intonation that would assit all the way around. If the player practices breath control then the tone should get better, and thus the player will have need to take less breaths.
I've been playing flute for about 18 months--a keyless wooden one. My problems are things like embrochure; my tone is not consistant and sometimes the sound becomes inexplicably fuzzy. Also how to keep a good tone quality while playing fast. How to practice. When to breathe. How to work up ornaments and when to use them. The best way to hold a flute.
And another difficulty is tension--when I am trying to make a tune sound better and faster my hands and wrists become tighter and thence clumsier. I use an imaging technique for this, that is I go back to playing slowly while imagining that my knuckles and joints have been replaced by some kinky viscous liquid like sun tan oil or transmission fluid. Odd but effective.
For better breathing I occassionally make myself yawn which reminds the body just how much we expand when we really breathe--lungs, back, throat, etc.
About the "ruthless" thing--- in an atmosphere of mutual respect it doesn't come off as ruthless, just focussed.
Hope you have a fine time with this!
Flute Problems Wanted
Flute Problems Wanted
I will be conducting some flute/whistle workshops shortly and, although the organizers wanted specific workshop themes, old workshop hands have told me to be prepared to deal with all manner of problems. I would be interested to know what flute/ whistle learners consider problems. I have been playing so long now that my own problems are mostly due to the fact that the human body ages and, alas, not an awful lot can be done about them. Any suggestions appreciated so I can prepare some material and think about possible solutions.
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by LongNote
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
I'm not a flute player, but I was involved in a music school where we had lots of young flute players. I've regularly heard them ask their tutor which are the best keys to get fitted to the flute (most of them can't afford a fully keyed flute at the outset). Obviously things like where they should use cranns, triplets etc. come up, but I suppose that's a matter of individual taste within the confines of each tune. Off the top of my head, I can only remember one other issue that was related specifically to the flute - how to get a strong, sustained bottom D.
Conversely, one problem I have is: how can you get flute players to stop dribbling on your knee when they're sitting next to you?
Answers on a postcard please...
;
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
I think your biggest challenge will be dealing with different profficiency levels. You may have to separate people in groups (beginners, intermediate, advanced). Then there is the problem that the profficiency with the instrument doesn't correlate with how much experience they have with ITM. For example, you may get people who play the flute very well, but still have a lot of trouble learning the tchunes by ear.
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
Thanks for the responses so far. The levels of the workshop -- intermediate/advanced has already been advertised and raw beginners will not be catered to.Tunes WILL be taught by ear. I do not teach any other way. That is settled. Time is very limited. What I need are specific technical problems; is it breathing, tone, volume, fingering, the stretch etc, etc? Ornamentation is more an aesthetic question. Just so I can prepare a few different handouts.
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by LongNote
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
Conan, you take a show flyer and crumple it into a teensy ball, and you stuff it up the bottom of the flute when they're not looking... *heh* JOKING...I'm JOKING...
LongNote, dear, you're going to have to be sure you have a way figured out to 'cater' to or otherwise "handle" the folks who *think* they're intermediate/advanced and who are actually beginners in a way that won't convince them that you're a monster, as well as even possibly tactfully finding ways of getting people round to your viewpoint that by ear is the only way to fly if they're not used to that concept. Unless of course, you require an audition to get into the workshop, or if the organizers aren't familiar with the students' playing. Eight out of ten workshops I've been in or have organized have run into this trouble if I didn't personally know everyone involved and/or double check on skill level.
Hopefully you won't run into this yourself, but you might want to think about ways to be nice to people while sticking to your guns at the same time so the organizers don't get complaints about your heartlessness. It's a sure way not to get invited back.
Zina
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
The stuff beginning flute players are likely to be interested in (speaking from experience here) is ornamentation: rolls, and especially cranns. The trick is to get them to believe that this stuff is less important than phrasing, use of air, articulation and feel. Also, flute players like playing fast; they think it hides their mistakes.
Be upfront about what you're going to teach: technique or tchunes, or whatever. Doing a short audition in the beginning doesn't hurt. You can pretend you're letting them share their favourite tunes.
On the sensitivity thing, i think most Irish teachers are far more ruthless than American teachers. It's ok to be nice, but remember you're teaching a style of music that's played mostly in noisy pubs, and it's important to develop some thickness of skin.
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
From the point of view of some who plays in sessions frequented by flute players you might want to address tuning. The better players are OK, but most beginner and intermediate players tend to be sharp and get worse as the night wears on without seeming to be aware of it.
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by AOG
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
I am from Ulster and therefore even more ruthless than the average variety of Irishman. I taught at a US university for a while and was a notoriously "tough,but fair" grader. I understand all these "delicacies". Someone else is doing beginners workshops. I will be able to pack a few off to that, so crowd control doesn't bother me all that much. And I am doing at least one "all levels" workshop. Experience has taught me that in the US there is much more of an inclination for people to overestimate their ability -- in Ireland you are constantly reminded of how far you have yet to go as a musician even after years of playing. Maybe some people will reject criticism / storm out /complain / write to their Congressman/ take to the drink, but that is their business. So gimme more specifically flute-related problems, please.
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by LongNote
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
Fair enough. I used to date an Ulsterman occasionally, back in my single days, and he was also proud of his ruthlessness, it seems to be an area weakness. *grin* It's nice there's a beginner workshop that you can send some off to.
zls
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
I've been playin' flute for about a year now and think that my main problem is finding the right place to breath for the correct phrasing. Basically i've been going along the lines of "when you need a breath take it", and "dont take a breath where you think you should" i.e the start of a part, etc
Also a gutsy low D would be great too!
If you want to get back to me on this that would be grand!!!
Oh, and also the best way to hold a flute (i know you've all been over this in previous discussions) there seems to be a big difference in scotland to ireland about whether fingers should be straight or bent (on either hand) - i'm always wondering about this and ended up at the conclusion that i should just do whatever feels the best for me.
Jamie
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by jamiedj
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
If you get any classical flute players with their silver jobs a problem that can arise is the F# fingering...as most trad tunes use F# frequently and on the Irish flute it's straight forward but on the silver version the F# is (ooo oxo) or (ooo oox) which can be uneven on quick passages.
Dave.
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by Twiz
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
Hi, I have a new teacher who is helping me address these issues:
1) Strong Irish rhythm - accenting the right notes in a phrase
2) Getting my high notes to sound less "hooty" and more focused. Being able to get good clean high notes without increased breath, as you might do on a whistle.
3) Glottal stops in lieu of tonguing
4) Phrasing- breathing without interupting the melody
Joyce
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by JMH
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
Yes, that's what i mean by "phrasing, use of air, articulation and feel". Of course, there are different styles, and some players use more air than others, some players use air to articulate while others (Matt Molloy) use mostly ornamentation for the same purpose.
But within the different styles, Irish flute players playing wooden conical flutes use more air than classical players playing Boehm flutes, and the articulation is different (less tongue, more glottal). Et cetera...
# Posted on June 18th 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
Good stuff and thanks so far! I, like many other Irish musicians, was never taught to play, but rather learned to play. Consequently, I am not quite sure "how" I do certain things. And, of course, acquired several bad habits in the process. At least, I can stop them imitating those. Trouble is I have so little time for each workshop and if it says "advanced", then that's what it is. However, I want to draw up a general advice handout for flute problems which I can give to participants I may have to turn away. I'll be around for the whole weekend, so, no doubt, I will do a few informal (unpaid!!) workshops too. See, not so ruthless after all.
# Posted on June 18th 2002 by LongNote
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
LongNote - are you planning on teaching any future workshops in the US (NYC or Boston)?
Joyce
# Posted on June 18th 2002 by JMH
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
My previous post about F# problems (you probably spotted the deliberate mistake!) should be (xxx oxo) or (xxx oox).
This is more of a problem if someone comes to the Boehm flute after learning the D whistle where the F# is (xxx xoo)
Dave.
# Posted on June 18th 2002 by Twiz
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
Some of the biggest flute problems I am aware of are:
Tone quality(support of the sound), tuning, and phrasing.
In the past I mostly heard weak sound, so I taught how to get a full sound. More recently I have heard people that play too loud. If you can teach intonation that would assit all the way around. If the player practices breath control then the tone should get better, and thus the player will have need to take less breaths.
Where are you running the classes?
# Posted on June 21st 2002 by Whitney
Re: Flute Problems Wanted
I've been playing flute for about 18 months--a keyless wooden one. My problems are things like embrochure; my tone is not consistant and sometimes the sound becomes inexplicably fuzzy. Also how to keep a good tone quality while playing fast. How to practice. When to breathe. How to work up ornaments and when to use them. The best way to hold a flute.
And another difficulty is tension--when I am trying to make a tune sound better and faster my hands and wrists become tighter and thence clumsier. I use an imaging technique for this, that is I go back to playing slowly while imagining that my knuckles and joints have been replaced by some kinky viscous liquid like sun tan oil or transmission fluid. Odd but effective.
For better breathing I occassionally make myself yawn which reminds the body just how much we expand when we really breathe--lungs, back, throat, etc.
About the "ruthless" thing--- in an atmosphere of mutual respect it doesn't come off as ruthless, just focussed.
Hope you have a fine time with this!
# Posted on June 23rd 2002 by La_grotte