Can anyone help me? I know not the talk. I know not the grip. The truck-a-lee-how is beyond my wildest imagination. I screech. My bow bounces. My left forefinger hurts. I practice all the time. I listen to Irish and Scottish music religously. I have talked to Bohola's, Old Blind Dogs', and Danu's fiddlers. I am still absolutely terrible. I just started playing again after a fifteen year break. I started back this January with a classical instructor who is very good at foundation and understands that I love Celtic fiddling does what he can. I have also been attending our local Sessions. I play out of time, out of key, my bow bounces and right when I think I have learned a tune, it leaves me. I am terrified to start a tune, even though the people in my Session are so supportive. I have terrible stage fright. I listen to Kevin Burke and all the other wonders of the fiddling world. and it makes me want to cry. I can't even tune my fiddle by ear. I would love advice from anyone who has ever been where I am right now--in the Fiddling House of Blues with my lower lip is sticking out...ah, lovely...an official pout...
I started fiddling in 1984. My wife kept me in the garage for about a year. Then I graduated to the bathroom. From there is was the living room. The screatches and scratches were terrible. Dogs and cats ran screaming from our block. The birds avoided flying over our house.
I got frustrated, mad, and almost quit. But,,, I didn't.
Don't give up, it won't happen fast, but when you least expect it, it'll happen.
Well, I was advised to go to sessions and just *listen* for the first two years and in the meantime just work on learning to play at home. Get the basic skills down, gather up a repetoire of fairly reliable tunes. I think I had about 8 of those when I attended my first session! It sounds like maybe you should do the same. Sessions aren't a great place to *learn* to play. Do that at home. Believe me, it was scary enough after waiting 3 years and it took awhile for me not to get a massive fear rush before walking into the pub every week. Like I was about to be shot, or something. Whew.
Otherwise, just keep practising. That is really all you can do. Put one foot in front of the other, so to speak. You have a teacher to guide you and that's really good. Just keep to a practise schedule every day, if you can, even if it's only 30 minutes. Don't expect too much too soon. I did and it put me in a pout similiar to yours until I realized I was not, unbeknownst to anyone, a fiddling genius waiting to happen! I was going to have to work harder than I thought. Eventually I could see a little improvement every week. You will hit plateaus where you can perceive *no* improvement and you just have to sort of keep going. Then you'll have a break-through. Then another plateau, ect. You will visit the Fiddling House of Blues quite a bit at first!
That's all that comes to mind at the moment. I still remember how it felt to be where you are, even seven years on. *Shudder* And seven years on, I still think of myself as a beginner, because there seems to be sooo much to learn.
I still cry & have a hard time tuning my fiddle, I think a lot of people do. It sounds like you need to find a way to relax, when you relax the fiddle sounds a little better & is a little easier. When your playing stop & make sure your shoulders are relaxed, that your arms aren't tense, that your not gritting your teeth or sticking your chin into the chinrest as hard as you can. Ask yourself, "Am I tapping my foot?" than ask yourself "Is my foot tapping in rhythm?" Keeping good rhythm is a whole body affair, ask any trap drummer or just look at James Brown. Practice & relaxing are the keys, there is no magic potion for these except working at it & not getting discouraged.
Another key is finding out what tunes are common at your sessions & learning them. Tape recording sessions has been something that has helped me out. Even if the tunes are beyond me & I can't figure them out - I'll be more & more familiar with them with every listen. Once I have a tune memorized in my head it's easier to figure it out. Sometimes the come right out unexpected & other times it's hard ("What did he just play?" stop the tape player, rewind, oops too far, fast forward, listen, Oops missed it again etc.) but it's a labor of love & if you love it enough it'll eventually get easier.
Keep that chin up, between all the frustration I'm sure there is the gleeming moments that come up along the way.
Brad, you may cry over tuning your fiddle, but I nearly cried when I heard your ease with bowing on your mp3s. One day, I hope to have that flow you have in your bowing. Listening to you only put me in the House of Fiddling Blues for a day or so with a good sized pout *grin*
i started learning the fiddle last november, and i can understand everything that you're feeling. my fiddle teacher beats up on my bowing regularly. there are days when i can't hit notes accurately to save my life. other days, it's impossible to play one string at a time. but occasionally it all comes together on the few tunes that i know & i really try to hold onto that. (and try to remember how i did it )
i'm not a person known for my patience, but fiddling is teaching it to me. i'm getting used to not doing it perfectly, and to making lots of mistakes. and i keep reminding myself that all of this is part of the process.
most of the other suggestions so far are good. practice regularly, for as long as you can. keep going over your tunes. go back to the really early ones that you''ve forgeotten & play them again. you may be surprised at how much better you are. (i know i was surprised when i pulled out those brendan begley polkas i got at my first lessons & found out that when i play them now, they actually sound like polkas.)
definitely record stuff. ask a fiddler who has a tune that you really want to learn if they'll play it slowly for your recorder. then listen to it again & again & again. and then start playing along ...
oh, and remember that you aren't the only person who's having a hard time
Well, that all sounds alarmingly familiar. Especially the part about giving it all away for several years. I did this too, out of a feeling of getting nowhere, but I never lost my affection for the music. I've restarted also, and am not much up to sessions. Which is to say, I should be slow to offer anyone advice.
However, I have found some tricks that are helping me with my own substantial shortcomings, possibly some of them could be of use to you. Some suggestions follow.
Pick a favorite tune and play it slowly over and over. Use a metronome, 60 bpm or even 50. To get the right rhythm within the metronome beat, a reel should scan as "Crystal Palace, Crystal Palace". Sounds dumb, I know, but that came to me from a good player. And I reckon that is really worth working on.
Then while your cruising at say 50 bpm, steadily crystal-palacing, you could try to focus some attention on some fine details like how you're changing strings, and where your bow is running and what your various left hand fingers are doing. And just relaxing and listening.
But that's all sounding a bit too much like a lesson, so I'll stop there, but nice chatting to you.
He mentioned it in a post awhile ago, Zina. I check in every so often to regain my pout. He also has a couple of links to Rhode Island stuff and Providence stuff that I need to explore. Providence means HP Lovecraft to me. I'm not a computer geek, but I'm still a geek *grin*.
I know just how you feel, I didn't start leanring the fiddle untill I was 40 and some days it seems easy and sounds ok and other days its really hard work and sound awful. I get less bad days now and I always like to play tunes I know from memory for about 20 mins before working on new ones. We have a session once a week and have the sheet music available and that helps. I still find leanring by ear at a full-speed session quite difficult but if already know the tune I can manage to keep up. I also play in a barn dance group so keeping to a strict tempo is inportant and I do have a tendancy to cut long notes leading to speeding up, not a good thing. What I have found useful when practicing barn dance tunes, is to use my PC music scoring package to enter the dots and then play along with it. Obviously the PC doesn't put any feel into the tune but it does play in tune, at a constant tempo and doesn't object to repating the tune over and over again. I start with tune fairly slow and speed it up when I've got the feel and the bowing sorted.
Hey - its true, every single person who ever tried to learn the fiddle has experienced exactly what you have. Its just one of those tough instruments that never quite sound right. I play at the moment proabably anywhere from 7 - 11 sessions a week (not kidding, Its running me to an early grave ) and most of the time I feel like I'm not playing up to scratch - maybe once every two months I'll think 'hey, those tunes sounded half decent' and it makes it all worth while. But I'll tell you one thing - I cannot tune my fiddle to save my life! I use a tuner, and if the session is out then I ask my friends to tune it for me
I find that the easiest way to learn a tune is to know it before you play it (which is a bit strange) but if you have listened to a tune enough times that you can hum most of it (as Brad says!) then let your fingers do the walking, they generally tune in to what your head is hearing! Thats a bit surreal i know, but works for me....
One of the plus sides to being single again is the amount of time you can spend playing music. Don't need to worry about spending your nights off with your other half! (Does that sound a bit callous? Hope not!)
Jamie :0)
I find that the easiest way to learn a tune is to know it before you play it (which is a bit strange) but if you have listened to a tune enough times that you can hum most of it (as Brad says!) then let your fingers do the walking, they generally tune in to what your head is hearing! Thats a bit surreal i know, but works for me....
One of the plus sides to being single again is the amount of time you can spend playing music. Don't need to worry about spending your nights off with your other half! (Does that sound a bit callous? Hope not!)
Jamie :0)
Hang in there! As you can tell from all of these helpful posts, we all sounded horrid at the beginning. You are probably at the point of a major breakthrough, however! Every time I thought I would quit because I sounded aweful, the next day I realized it was just a bit easier, sounded just a bit better. I'll never forget the joy in my mom's voice when she came bounding into the room where I was practicing and said "WOW! I recognzied what you were playing!" You will make it, just keep trying.
As far as good tip that I got once, practice in very small sections. If the tune is hard, break it down to the smallest section and really get it down. Then move on to the next. Finally, put them together and practice very slowly. It sounds tedious, but it really works.
Lucky?? I look ten years older;-0 , it really takes alot out of you...and dont even get me started on all the drinking and free pints!! I have a theory - if you dont go out with anyone when youre learning you nearly always dont have anything better to do than practice
7-11 sessions a week - bb, you may be heading to an early grave but what a way to go!
As usual, this group has tons of good advice and I can't offer much more. Doesn't stop me from rambling on, though .
Things I have found most helpful are relaxing, listening (both at sessions and to recordings - try to find ones with solo or close to solo fiddlers), playing a lot, and - for the bowing problems at the begining - watching myself play in front of the mirror. It helps to sit down before starting practice and psuedo meditate for 5 mintues (or as long as I can bear to sit there without picking up the fiddle . Although meditation comes hard, and I never get into the zone, these few mintues do help calm and focus me. But, the biggest help was a change in mindset.
I too was struggling, crying and getting so frustrated that cussing and practicing went hand in hand. One day, a little while back, I sat myself down and asked myself - if this is so painful and frustrating, exactly *why* are you doing it? I just didn't want to go on, day after day, being sad and angry and, let's face it, just plain miserable. Life is way too short and it had to stop. If playing wasn't fun, what was the point? Somehow, this was the key moment. I realized that I loved the music, and wanted it more than anything else in my life, but that I didn't have to be the best, in fact I didn't even have to be good. It was the playing that mattered, not how it sounded. It's hard to describe, but it was if a light went on inside, I stopped hearing only the mistakes and focused instead on what it felt like to play - the sheer joy of it. Oh, I haven't stopped working on tunes and techniques, and I still get frustrated at times - but the practicing/playing is now fun and I look forward to it. Instead of cussing, I find myself laughing out loud - sometimes at mistakes or a particularly loud screech. And the music has improved - still only know a few tunes, can't do much with ornamentation, my bowing is poor, and on and on, but somehow it sounds better (people have commented on it so it is not *all* in my mind . An inspirational story, eh? *snort*
Anyway, nikki, you obviously have the love of the music, and that is the most important thing. Try to relax and enjoy it. Easier said than done, I know....
hehehe....fun site, Brad! I downloaded the mp3s and listened to 'em while I read your Funky Rhody site, which is interesting and funny. Chris is right, there's some great bowing work going on there.
Thanks everybody for your feedback, Zina those mp3's are for "The Mighty Craic" remember? That's the whole reason i put that site together. I'm arranging to record some more stuff for a demo in about two weeks or so (this time it won't be in "Drunken-vision" I was about 10 beers in on those mp3's), I'll be sure to update the site with the demo stuff. Oh yeah & Bonnie Kate, maybe I'll just post Michael Coleman Playing it because anything else is just a cheap imitation. I need to update Funky Rhody too, I've got a lot more pics (Including HP Lovecraft's Grave w/ the epitaph "I AM PROVIDENCE") but no motivation. Thanks again folks.
Wow... wish I'd had you all around when I was learning!
Take heart, Nikki... we really do know what you're going through. When I started learning how to play the violin I was 18 years old, and wanted to know how to play more than anything else in the world. I worked like a dog, for hours a day, despite people looking down their snoots at me and telling me that I was "too old" (I still don't understand that one -- I was learning classical music at the time, which has a different culture, I guess). For the first three years or so, it was very, very discouraging. That first year, I'd have a breakdown of sorts about once a month or so. I'd lock myself in the practice room and cry and cry and cry... and then I'd dry my tears, pick my girl back up, and play her some more. And that's what you have to do.
Sosaidh has it right about the love of the music being the most important. That and the desire to do it will see you through. "You have so much music in you that's screaming to get out," one of my teachers said once. "That's what you have to hold on to."
And things *will* get better. One time, I was moaning to my very first violin teacher that I didn't think that I was getting better. He was certainly in the best position to judge that I *was*, but instead of giving traditional encouragement, he told me something that I'll never forget. "It's at those moments that you're really making progress, actually," he said. "In short order you'll have a breakthrough." He was right, and has been ever since.
Hang in there, and keep coming back to supportive places like this when you need encouragement. Be well!
Nikki - You can't put it down now. You have gone through the absolute worst part already. I have never heard anyone sound great on the violin from the start. I don't even know why such an unforgiving instrument was ever invented. But you know what - I love mine to death.
You are paying those startup dues right now. You have not lost that investment. All your time was worthwhile.
I recommend a few things to you. Take some private lessons, They should tell you many things like how to holf your bowing hand. How to position your elbow and what your shoulder contributes to bowing. If your left hand needs a little technique work then you will get some instruction there. After your basics are solid - you can actually learn on your own or from the more advanced players at sessions.
Sometimes, Your violin does nothing to help how you sound. Take it in to a music sture with a strings expert and ask him for an evaluation. Perhaps you are better than you think you are but the violin is way out of adjustment.
I agree with everyone else. There is nothing better for your palying than 5 or 6 hours a week of practice. A plateau is completely dissolved within four months of steady practice During that period of time you leap up a level or two.
Practice tunes no faster than you can play the hardest part of the tune. That one takes discipline especially when you can rip through an entire at a lively tempo the you hit.... "The Measure".
I can't encourage you enough to keep after it. It is such a joy to play your first good tune at a Session with everybody else. That was one of the best moments of my life.
By the way, Nikki, here I sit, test listening our first demo, which we put together last week to give to folks who want to book us at weddings and such (god knows I don't want to have anyone who I really care about their opinions of my playing listening to this, yikes!), and it's back to "throw the fiddle into the traffic" time. (Dirk sure sounds good, though -- stellar version of O'Farrell's Welcome to Limerick here -- which I'm not playing with him on, by the way!) I'll get better eventually, but I know I'm going to wince everytime I hear these demo tracks -- it's happening already!
We all go through it. You'll get through this and someday look back and laugh at how bad you used to be. Hopefully, you will never ever forget how bad you were and how it made you feel, because that's what will make you a supportive person in your own turn to another player just starting out. You'll get better, honest you will, if you only keep working at it. Stick with it, and work at getting facile enough at your instrument that you can coax the music you hear in your head out through your instrument.
Jaysus, I'm awful! I have to listen to this disc on at least three more sound systems, too. *sigh*
I'm at sea-level & have a lot of bodyweight to absorb the shock of all those brews - plus I had them over about a 8 hour period (& I drink on a more regular basis than I probably should, so I've got tolerance). Thanks for the flattery but when I here my own music I'm rarely satisfied, it's good enough for standard mediocre session fiddling, but I'd have no chance in a competition. If I go to sessions around Boston or NYC I'm blown out of the water. Stuck sitting there playing one tune every half hour or so (But in heaven listening). I've got a lot of work ahead of me & I'm never going to be 100% satisfied. It's been that way from the get-go - but I love it & keep working at it
Brad
Well, you wonderful, darling, super-groovy people, you have all helped me through the dreck. I am out on the other side--of course the metronome is still clucking away at 60bps...but slowing down has helped. I'm buying a new bow, the best fiddler in town has agreed to lessons, and things seem much better. It isn't about being good and receiving praise. It never really has been. It is about loving the music and wanting to do it justice. I think the greatest part of my upset was that I felt like I was killing off the beautiful music that I love above all other. But what I realize is that I am not a murderer, merely a butcher, and I can live with that. Just so you all know I have been practicing 4-5 hours a *day*...my brother can vouch for that. He now knows such tunes as "Musical Priest" "The Kesh" "Rights of Man" "My Darling Asleep" all of which I have memorized...I have a few more. I love it. I do. I just have felt such shame about something so sacred and special to me...that is why places like this are SO important...I get relief knowing that, NO, I am not special. I am NOT the only person who has ever had a hard bow to hoe...or row to hold or...something...anyway, THANKS!
I won't give up. I can't. I love my fiddle and the music beyond reason and measure.
Good good good! But be *sure* to take frequent breaks and stretch a bit. I went at it hammer and tongs in the beginning as well, and I ended up with a messed up shoulder for awhile and had to stop playing for a month. Actually, it was a muscle group in my back which lead to my shoulder that was the problem. But be careful. Pay attention to discomfort. I had some re-learning to do when I started up again and it was really frustrating.
Okay, so somehow I missed your post the first time, Bill...but now I've read it and I'm trying to figure out how a reel scans as "crystal palace"? Mind trying to explain that one?
Crys-tal Pal-ace Crys-tal Pal-ace are the 8 notes of a bar. I can hear this if I listen for it, particularly in nice steady playing.
How you emphasize the Pal in relation to the Crys is a matter of style, but I think the most helpful part of it is that it brings the tal and ace notes in, at about the right proportion, and it suggests flow on. I think a beginners tendency is to underplay those notes, giving a bumpy rhyrthm.
Nikki kindly emailed me to say - thanks it works. Good on you Nikki.
I got the tip some years ago from a very good banjo player from Galway. It took me some time to find out that I really needed the advice. If I see him again, I'll buy him a drink.
I think Crystal Palace is an English football team!
Well that sounds right, but Ive never heard of the old 1-3-2-4 rule. And I suppose a bar must be a measure, I'd be guessing there's just a regional difference in usage here. Cheers.
"The old 1-3-2-4" rule is what you first learn in classical music about the emphasis given each beat in 4/4 -- the downbeat is the heaviest, then the third beat, then the second beat, then the fourth beat.
I only asked about the bar because I have a friend who calls "a bar" the eight measures of a part. I don't know why, and she doesn't remember who taught her that. So I don't know how common that usage is!
Kewl, thanks, Brad, I'll go have a listen tomorrow when I have some time...and happy Father's Day! (and thanks to all the Dads out there for always doing their best!)
I have just caught this posting for the first time and I'm glad to hear you have got a new bow...it makes a huge amount of difference. When I bought a new fiddle a while ago I tried out a hundred year old German bow also and could not believe the difference in balance and subsequently the sound quality..pre CITES Pernambuco Pine..nothing better. Obviously I had to buy that as well!
I was lucky in that I started when I was a kid (Chetham's Music School in Manchester, England where I had a really good classical teacher) so I got all the nasty bits out of the way early before I developed any critical audial facility and realised how bad I must have sounded then. I then moved on to Old Time American stuff and Irish trad. a couple of years later (much to the disapproval of my teachers)...what do they know?
I can only endorse what other people have already said...get the tune in your head (if you aren't reading....even if you are come to think of it) and it does flow to the fingers...lots of practice also...but you seem to be doing all the right things anyway from your last posting and look have turned the corner Best of luck with it all; it is worth it as you know.
By the way Crystal Palace IS a South London football (soccer) team (who are rubbish, by the way) named after The Crystal Palace built by Queen Victoria's husband, Prince Albert, for the Great Exhibition in 1861. It was an amazing glass and steel structure rather like the huge glasshouse in Kew Gardens London, and burnt down, I think, in the 1930s. It's good to know that the name lives on keeping fiddlers in time and not just through the laughable antics of the football team!
I try to end each practice on a "win" instead of in a frustrated mode; it makes for an easier practice the next time and I also find that when you're in a rut, so to speak, and it feels like you'll never get better, if you just hang in there and play some more that you really do get to that next plateau............
bai
Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Can anyone help me? I know not the talk. I know not the grip. The truck-a-lee-how is beyond my wildest imagination. I screech. My bow bounces. My left forefinger hurts. I practice all the time. I listen to Irish and Scottish music religously. I have talked to Bohola's, Old Blind Dogs', and Danu's fiddlers. I am still absolutely terrible. I just started playing again after a fifteen year break. I started back this January with a classical instructor who is very good at foundation and understands that I love Celtic fiddling does what he can. I have also been attending our local Sessions. I play out of time, out of key, my bow bounces and right when I think I have learned a tune, it leaves me. I am terrified to start a tune, even though the people in my Session are so supportive. I have terrible stage fright. I listen to Kevin Burke and all the other wonders of the fiddling world. and it makes me want to cry. I can't even tune my fiddle by ear. I would love advice from anyone who has ever been where I am right now--in the Fiddling House of Blues with my lower lip is sticking out...ah, lovely...an official pout...
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by nikki
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I started fiddling in 1984. My wife kept me in the garage for about a year. Then I graduated to the bathroom. From there is was the living room. The screatches and scratches were terrible. Dogs and cats ran screaming from our block. The birds avoided flying over our house.
I got frustrated, mad, and almost quit. But,,, I didn't.
Don't give up, it won't happen fast, but when you least expect it, it'll happen.
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Well, I was advised to go to sessions and just *listen* for the first two years and in the meantime just work on learning to play at home. Get the basic skills down, gather up a repetoire of fairly reliable tunes. I think I had about 8 of those when I attended my first session! It sounds like maybe you should do the same. Sessions aren't a great place to *learn* to play. Do that at home. Believe me, it was scary enough after waiting 3 years and it took awhile for me not to get a massive fear rush before walking into the pub every week. Like I was about to be shot, or something. Whew.
Otherwise, just keep practising. That is really all you can do. Put one foot in front of the other, so to speak. You have a teacher to guide you and that's really good. Just keep to a practise schedule every day, if you can, even if it's only 30 minutes. Don't expect too much too soon. I did and it put me in a pout similiar to yours until I realized I was not, unbeknownst to anyone, a fiddling genius waiting to happen! I was going to have to work harder than I thought. Eventually I could see a little improvement every week. You will hit plateaus where you can perceive *no* improvement and you just have to sort of keep going. Then you'll have a break-through. Then another plateau, ect. You will visit the Fiddling House of Blues quite a bit at first!
That's all that comes to mind at the moment. I still remember how it felt to be where you are, even seven years on. *Shudder* And seven years on, I still think of myself as a beginner, because there seems to be sooo much to learn.
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I still cry & have a hard time tuning my fiddle, I think a lot of people do. It sounds like you need to find a way to relax, when you relax the fiddle sounds a little better & is a little easier. When your playing stop & make sure your shoulders are relaxed, that your arms aren't tense, that your not gritting your teeth or sticking your chin into the chinrest as hard as you can. Ask yourself, "Am I tapping my foot?" than ask yourself "Is my foot tapping in rhythm?" Keeping good rhythm is a whole body affair, ask any trap drummer or just look at James Brown. Practice & relaxing are the keys, there is no magic potion for these except working at it & not getting discouraged.
Another key is finding out what tunes are common at your sessions & learning them. Tape recording sessions has been something that has helped me out. Even if the tunes are beyond me & I can't figure them out - I'll be more & more familiar with them with every listen. Once I have a tune memorized in my head it's easier to figure it out. Sometimes the come right out unexpected & other times it's hard ("What did he just play?" stop the tape player, rewind, oops too far, fast forward, listen, Oops missed it again etc.) but it's a labor of love & if you love it enough it'll eventually get easier.
Keep that chin up, between all the frustration I'm sure there is the gleeming moments that come up along the way.
Brad
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Brad, you may cry over tuning your fiddle, but I nearly cried when I heard your ease with bowing on your mp3s. One day, I hope to have that flow you have in your bowing. Listening to you only put me in the House of Fiddling Blues for a day or so with a good sized pout *grin*
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
i started learning the fiddle last november, and i can understand everything that you're feeling. my fiddle teacher beats up on my bowing regularly. there are days when i can't hit notes accurately to save my life. other days, it's impossible to play one string at a time. but occasionally it all comes together on the few tunes that i know & i really try to hold onto that. (and try to remember how i did it )
i'm not a person known for my patience, but fiddling is teaching it to me. i'm getting used to not doing it perfectly, and to making lots of mistakes. and i keep reminding myself that all of this is part of the process.
most of the other suggestions so far are good. practice regularly, for as long as you can. keep going over your tunes. go back to the really early ones that you''ve forgeotten & play them again. you may be surprised at how much better you are. (i know i was surprised when i pulled out those brendan begley polkas i got at my first lessons & found out that when i play them now, they actually sound like polkas.)
definitely record stuff. ask a fiddler who has a tune that you really want to learn if they'll play it slowly for your recorder. then listen to it again & again & again. and then start playing along ...
oh, and remember that you aren't the only person who's having a hard time
sarah
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by sarahc
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Well, that all sounds alarmingly familiar. Especially the part about giving it all away for several years. I did this too, out of a feeling of getting nowhere, but I never lost my affection for the music. I've restarted also, and am not much up to sessions. Which is to say, I should be slow to offer anyone advice.
However, I have found some tricks that are helping me with my own substantial shortcomings, possibly some of them could be of use to you. Some suggestions follow.
Pick a favorite tune and play it slowly over and over. Use a metronome, 60 bpm or even 50. To get the right rhythm within the metronome beat, a reel should scan as "Crystal Palace, Crystal Palace". Sounds dumb, I know, but that came to me from a good player. And I reckon that is really worth working on.
Then while your cruising at say 50 bpm, steadily crystal-palacing, you could try to focus some attention on some fine details like how you're changing strings, and where your bow is running and what your various left hand fingers are doing. And just relaxing and listening.
But that's all sounding a bit too much like a lesson, so I'll stop there, but nice chatting to you.
Cheers, Bill.
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by bd
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Where the hell does Brad Maloney have mp3s of himself!?! I wanna hear, I wanna hear!
Zina
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
http://www.geocities.com/brad_maloney2000/
He mentioned it in a post awhile ago, Zina. I check in every so often to regain my pout. He also has a couple of links to Rhode Island stuff and Providence stuff that I need to explore. Providence means HP Lovecraft to me. I'm not a computer geek, but I'm still a geek *grin*.
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I know just how you feel, I didn't start leanring the fiddle untill I was 40 and some days it seems easy and sounds ok and other days its really hard work and sound awful. I get less bad days now and I always like to play tunes I know from memory for about 20 mins before working on new ones. We have a session once a week and have the sheet music available and that helps. I still find leanring by ear at a full-speed session quite difficult but if already know the tune I can manage to keep up. I also play in a barn dance group so keeping to a strict tempo is inportant and I do have a tendancy to cut long notes leading to speeding up, not a good thing. What I have found useful when practicing barn dance tunes, is to use my PC music scoring package to enter the dots and then play along with it. Obviously the PC doesn't put any feel into the tune but it does play in tune, at a constant tempo and doesn't object to repating the tune over and over again. I start with tune fairly slow and speed it up when I've got the feel and the bowing sorted.
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by Daver
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Hey - its true, every single person who ever tried to learn the fiddle has experienced exactly what you have. Its just one of those tough instruments that never quite sound right. I play at the moment proabably anywhere from 7 - 11 sessions a week (not kidding, Its running me to an early grave
) and most of the time I feel like I'm not playing up to scratch - maybe once every two months I'll think 'hey, those tunes sounded half decent' and it makes it all worth while. But I'll tell you one thing - I cannot tune my fiddle to save my life! I use a tuner, and if the session is out then I ask my friends to tune it for me 
# Posted on June 11th 2002 by bb
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
7-11 sessions a week! bb, you lucky devil!
I find that the easiest way to learn a tune is to know it before you play it (which is a bit strange) but if you have listened to a tune enough times that you can hum most of it (as Brad says!) then let your fingers do the walking, they generally tune in to what your head is hearing! Thats a bit surreal i know, but works for me....
One of the plus sides to being single again is the amount of time you can spend playing music. Don't need to worry about spending your nights off with your other half! (Does that sound a bit callous? Hope not!)
Jamie :0)
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by jamiedj
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
7-11 sessions a week! bb, you lucky devil!
I find that the easiest way to learn a tune is to know it before you play it (which is a bit strange) but if you have listened to a tune enough times that you can hum most of it (as Brad says!) then let your fingers do the walking, they generally tune in to what your head is hearing! Thats a bit surreal i know, but works for me....
One of the plus sides to being single again is the amount of time you can spend playing music. Don't need to worry about spending your nights off with your other half! (Does that sound a bit callous? Hope not!)
Jamie :0)
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by jamiedj
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Hang in there! As you can tell from all of these helpful posts, we all sounded horrid at the beginning. You are probably at the point of a major breakthrough, however! Every time I thought I would quit because I sounded aweful, the next day I realized it was just a bit easier, sounded just a bit better. I'll never forget the joy in my mom's voice when she came bounding into the room where I was practicing and said "WOW! I recognzied what you were playing!" You will make it, just keep trying.
As far as good tip that I got once, practice in very small sections. If the tune is hard, break it down to the smallest section and really get it down. Then move on to the next. Finally, put them together and practice very slowly. It sounds tedious, but it really works.
Best of luck!
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by KP
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Lucky?? I look ten years older;-0 , it really takes alot out of you...and dont even get me started on all the drinking and free pints!! I have a theory - if you dont go out with anyone when youre learning you nearly always dont have anything better to do than practice
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by bb
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
7-11 sessions a week - bb, you may be heading to an early grave but what a way to go!
.
. Although meditation comes hard, and I never get into the zone, these few mintues do help calm and focus me. But, the biggest help was a change in mindset.
. An inspirational story, eh? *snort*
As usual, this group has tons of good advice and I can't offer much more. Doesn't stop me from rambling on, though
Things I have found most helpful are relaxing, listening (both at sessions and to recordings - try to find ones with solo or close to solo fiddlers), playing a lot, and - for the bowing problems at the begining - watching myself play in front of the mirror. It helps to sit down before starting practice and psuedo meditate for 5 mintues (or as long as I can bear to sit there without picking up the fiddle
I too was struggling, crying and getting so frustrated that cussing and practicing went hand in hand. One day, a little while back, I sat myself down and asked myself - if this is so painful and frustrating, exactly *why* are you doing it? I just didn't want to go on, day after day, being sad and angry and, let's face it, just plain miserable. Life is way too short and it had to stop. If playing wasn't fun, what was the point? Somehow, this was the key moment. I realized that I loved the music, and wanted it more than anything else in my life, but that I didn't have to be the best, in fact I didn't even have to be good. It was the playing that mattered, not how it sounded. It's hard to describe, but it was if a light went on inside, I stopped hearing only the mistakes and focused instead on what it felt like to play - the sheer joy of it. Oh, I haven't stopped working on tunes and techniques, and I still get frustrated at times - but the practicing/playing is now fun and I look forward to it. Instead of cussing, I find myself laughing out loud - sometimes at mistakes or a particularly loud screech. And the music has improved - still only know a few tunes, can't do much with ornamentation, my bowing is poor, and on and on, but somehow it sounds better (people have commented on it so it is not *all* in my mind
Anyway, nikki, you obviously have the love of the music, and that is the most important thing. Try to relax and enjoy it. Easier said than done, I know....
Sosaidh
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by chicagofiddler
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
hehehe....fun site, Brad! I downloaded the mp3s and listened to 'em while I read your Funky Rhody site, which is interesting and funny. Chris is right, there's some great bowing work going on there.
Zina
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Thanks everybody for your feedback, Zina those mp3's are for "The Mighty Craic" remember? That's the whole reason i put that site together. I'm arranging to record some more stuff for a demo in about two weeks or so (this time it won't be in "Drunken-vision" I was about 10 beers in on those mp3's), I'll be sure to update the site with the demo stuff. Oh yeah & Bonnie Kate, maybe I'll just post Michael Coleman Playing it because anything else is just a cheap imitation. I need to update Funky Rhody too, I've got a lot more pics (Including HP Lovecraft's Grave w/ the epitaph "I AM PROVIDENCE") but no motivation. Thanks again folks.
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Wow... wish I'd had you all around when I was learning!
Take heart, Nikki... we really do know what you're going through. When I started learning how to play the violin I was 18 years old, and wanted to know how to play more than anything else in the world. I worked like a dog, for hours a day, despite people looking down their snoots at me and telling me that I was "too old" (I still don't understand that one -- I was learning classical music at the time, which has a different culture, I guess). For the first three years or so, it was very, very discouraging. That first year, I'd have a breakdown of sorts about once a month or so. I'd lock myself in the practice room and cry and cry and cry... and then I'd dry my tears, pick my girl back up, and play her some more. And that's what you have to do.
Sosaidh has it right about the love of the music being the most important. That and the desire to do it will see you through. "You have so much music in you that's screaming to get out," one of my teachers said once. "That's what you have to hold on to."
And things *will* get better. One time, I was moaning to my very first violin teacher that I didn't think that I was getting better. He was certainly in the best position to judge that I *was*, but instead of giving traditional encouragement, he told me something that I'll never forget. "It's at those moments that you're really making progress, actually," he said. "In short order you'll have a breakthrough." He was right, and has been ever since.
Hang in there, and keep coming back to supportive places like this when you need encouragement. Be well!
xo,
E. Bess
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by E. Bess
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Nikki - You can't put it down now. You have gone through the absolute worst part already. I have never heard anyone sound great on the violin from the start. I don't even know why such an unforgiving instrument was ever invented. But you know what - I love mine to death.
You are paying those startup dues right now. You have not lost that investment. All your time was worthwhile.
I recommend a few things to you. Take some private lessons, They should tell you many things like how to holf your bowing hand. How to position your elbow and what your shoulder contributes to bowing. If your left hand needs a little technique work then you will get some instruction there. After your basics are solid - you can actually learn on your own or from the more advanced players at sessions.
Sometimes, Your violin does nothing to help how you sound. Take it in to a music sture with a strings expert and ask him for an evaluation. Perhaps you are better than you think you are but the violin is way out of adjustment.
I agree with everyone else. There is nothing better for your palying than 5 or 6 hours a week of practice. A plateau is completely dissolved within four months of steady practice During that period of time you leap up a level or two.
Practice tunes no faster than you can play the hardest part of the tune. That one takes discipline especially when you can rip through an entire at a lively tempo the you hit.... "The Measure".
I can't encourage you enough to keep after it. It is such a joy to play your first good tune at a Session with everybody else. That was one of the best moments of my life.
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
By the way, Nikki, here I sit, test listening our first demo, which we put together last week to give to folks who want to book us at weddings and such (god knows I don't want to have anyone who I really care about their opinions of my playing listening to this, yikes!), and it's back to "throw the fiddle into the traffic" time. (Dirk sure sounds good, though -- stellar version of O'Farrell's Welcome to Limerick here -- which I'm not playing with him on, by the way!) I'll get better eventually, but I know I'm going to wince everytime I hear these demo tracks -- it's happening already!
We all go through it. You'll get through this and someday look back and laugh at how bad you used to be. Hopefully, you will never ever forget how bad you were and how it made you feel, because that's what will make you a supportive person in your own turn to another player just starting out. You'll get better, honest you will, if you only keep working at it. Stick with it, and work at getting facile enough at your instrument that you can coax the music you hear in your head out through your instrument.
Jaysus, I'm awful! I have to listen to this disc on at least three more sound systems, too. *sigh*
Zina
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by Zina Lee
P.S. Brad
If that's you after ten beers, Brad, then I can't wait to hear you after only two.
Zina
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
If I drank 10 beers I'd be dead! Zina's right, I want to hear you after only two. Wait...maybe not. Then I really will be feeling useless!
Zina, don't be throwin' yer fiddle into traffic. You just got it set up right! Heh...
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I'm at sea-level & have a lot of bodyweight to absorb the shock of all those brews - plus I had them over about a 8 hour period (& I drink on a more regular basis than I probably should, so I've got tolerance). Thanks for the flattery but when I here my own music I'm rarely satisfied, it's good enough for standard mediocre session fiddling, but I'd have no chance in a competition. If I go to sessions around Boston or NYC I'm blown out of the water. Stuck sitting there playing one tune every half hour or so (But in heaven listening). I've got a lot of work ahead of me & I'm never going to be 100% satisfied. It's been that way from the get-go - but I love it & keep working at it
Brad
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Well, you wonderful, darling, super-groovy people, you have all helped me through the dreck. I am out on the other side--of course the metronome is still clucking away at 60bps...but slowing down has helped. I'm buying a new bow, the best fiddler in town has agreed to lessons, and things seem much better. It isn't about being good and receiving praise. It never really has been. It is about loving the music and wanting to do it justice. I think the greatest part of my upset was that I felt like I was killing off the beautiful music that I love above all other. But what I realize is that I am not a murderer, merely a butcher, and I can live with that. Just so you all know I have been practicing 4-5 hours a *day*...my brother can vouch for that. He now knows such tunes as "Musical Priest" "The Kesh" "Rights of Man" "My Darling Asleep" all of which I have memorized...I have a few more. I love it. I do. I just have felt such shame about something so sacred and special to me...that is why places like this are SO important...I get relief knowing that, NO, I am not special. I am NOT the only person who has ever had a hard bow to hoe...or row to hold or...something...anyway, THANKS!
I won't give up. I can't. I love my fiddle and the music beyond reason and measure.
I thank you, one and all...
Nikki
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by nikki
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Good good good! But be *sure* to take frequent breaks and stretch a bit. I went at it hammer and tongs in the beginning as well, and I ended up with a messed up shoulder for awhile and had to stop playing for a month. Actually, it was a muscle group in my back which lead to my shoulder that was the problem. But be careful. Pay attention to discomfort. I had some re-learning to do when I started up again and it was really frustrating.
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by soft black stars
Bill -- Crystal Palace?
Okay, so somehow I missed your post the first time, Bill...but now I've read it and I'm trying to figure out how a reel scans as "crystal palace"? Mind trying to explain that one?
Zina
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by Zina Lee
Crystal Palace
Hi Zina,
Well it just does, doesn't it?
Crys-tal Pal-ace Crys-tal Pal-ace are the 8 notes of a bar. I can hear this if I listen for it, particularly in nice steady playing.
How you emphasize the Pal in relation to the Crys is a matter of style, but I think the most helpful part of it is that it brings the tal and ace notes in, at about the right proportion, and it suggests flow on. I think a beginners tendency is to underplay those notes, giving a bumpy rhyrthm.
Nikki kindly emailed me to say - thanks it works. Good on you Nikki.
I got the tip some years ago from a very good banjo player from Galway. It took me some time to find out that I really needed the advice. If I see him again, I'll buy him a drink.
I think Crystal Palace is an English football team!
Cheers, Bill.
# Posted on June 12th 2002 by bd
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Congrats Nikki - keep going!
# Posted on June 13th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Ah HA...okay, now I get it. So it follows the old classical rule of 1-3-2-4 then, right? And a bar is a measure, yes?
Zina
# Posted on June 13th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
Well that sounds right, but Ive never heard of the old 1-3-2-4 rule. And I suppose a bar must be a measure, I'd be guessing there's just a regional difference in usage here. Cheers.
# Posted on June 13th 2002 by bd
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I put up an mp3 of Michael Coleman playing Bonnie Kate/Jennie's Chickens on my web-site at
http://www.geocities.com/brad_maloney2000/fiddlermonth.html
I didn't want to start a new discussion for this - but I thought some folks might be interested.
Bye for now
Brad
# Posted on June 16th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
"The old 1-3-2-4" rule is what you first learn in classical music about the emphasis given each beat in 4/4 -- the downbeat is the heaviest, then the third beat, then the second beat, then the fourth beat.
I only asked about the bar because I have a friend who calls "a bar" the eight measures of a part. I don't know why, and she doesn't remember who taught her that. So I don't know how common that usage is!
Ta very much, Bill!
Zina
# Posted on June 16th 2002 by Zina Lee
Michael Coleman
Kewl, thanks, Brad, I'll go have a listen tomorrow when I have some time...and happy Father's Day! (and thanks to all the Dads out there for always doing their best!)
Zina
# Posted on June 16th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I just saw this:
http://www.tiompanalley.com/index_files/1st_five/5list.html
and i thought it was an interesting contrast. It's something like "learn how to play the fiddle in 1 easy lesson."
# Posted on June 17th 2002 by glauber
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I have just caught this posting for the first time and I'm glad to hear you have got a new bow...it makes a huge amount of difference. When I bought a new fiddle a while ago I tried out a hundred year old German bow also and could not believe the difference in balance and subsequently the sound quality..pre CITES Pernambuco Pine..nothing better. Obviously I had to buy that as well!
I was lucky in that I started when I was a kid (Chetham's Music School in Manchester, England where I had a really good classical teacher) so I got all the nasty bits out of the way early before I developed any critical audial facility and realised how bad I must have sounded then. I then moved on to Old Time American stuff and Irish trad. a couple of years later (much to the disapproval of my teachers)...what do they know?
I can only endorse what other people have already said...get the tune in your head (if you aren't reading....even if you are come to think of it) and it does flow to the fingers...lots of practice also...but you seem to be doing all the right things anyway from your last posting and look have turned the corner Best of luck with it all; it is worth it as you know.
By the way Crystal Palace IS a South London football (soccer) team (who are rubbish, by the way) named after The Crystal Palace built by Queen Victoria's husband, Prince Albert, for the Great Exhibition in 1861. It was an amazing glass and steel structure rather like the huge glasshouse in Kew Gardens London, and burnt down, I think, in the 1930s. It's good to know that the name lives on keeping fiddlers in time and not just through the laughable antics of the football team!
Geoff Pollitt
Reading, UK
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Beginning Fiddler's Blues
I try to end each practice on a "win" instead of in a frustrated mode; it makes for an easier practice the next time and I also find that when you're in a rut, so to speak, and it feels like you'll never get better, if you just hang in there and play some more that you really do get to that next plateau............
bai
# Posted on June 30th 2002 by manhattan