Are there anyone here who started playing Irish music before Riverdance? Did you start playing Irish (traditional) music after you saw Riverdance (or similar show)?
I happened to have started playing Irish music after I saw Riverdance, but one has nothing to do with the other. I don't consider Riverdance to be "real" ITM.
I've been to see River Dance but it's had no real influence on me playing Irish or any other kind of music. I was well down that road before it ever came on the scene!
Possibly, it may have influenced the choice of material some of us play, i.e not necessarily music from the show but it may have had some impact on the style of new tunes in general. On the other hand, some of the veteran musicians might have become even more bloody minded and determined to concentrate on "pure drop" and the old tunes as either a conscious or unconscious backlash against the commercialism of the whole thing.
In my case, I just tend to listen to and play what I like without, hopefully, being over influenced by any new trend or fashionable thing that comes along.
I got started long before Riverdance, or Titanic, became a phenomenon. I eased into ITM gradually until one day I realized that it was really all I wanted to play. No regrets and I haven't looked back since.
I don't really know what riverdance is. I've always vaguely supposed it's some sort of quasi-irish-dance show. Like you get Winnie the Pooh on Ice and all that sort of kitsch.
I started playing ITM about thirty-five years ago. Riverdance is a recent blip on the screen and like most traddies I have mixed feelings about it, but it’s probably ultimately good for the tradition. It is what it is and it ain’t what it ain’t.
Yes, this is true. However, if you asked most people here who they first enjoyed listening to "in music" generally, maybe even what inspired them to play, they probably would be too embarrassed to answer the question honestly. For instance, one of my favourite Irish songs(as a boy)was "If you're Irish, come into the parlour". "Poppa Piccolino" was a close second in International terms whereas for Scottish music, "The Bluebell Polka" was well up there. I still play the latter.
I first got interested in Irish trad music by way of bluegrass and American old timey music. First heard pipes and fiddle in Ireland in about 1965. Then picked up Mick Moloney's radio program in the 1970s and was fully and instantly converted the first time I heard the Bothy Band. A Boys of the Lough concert in Boston in 1978 clinched it. Yes, Riverdance is a historical blip.
But I've seen a few people drawn in by Riverdance and other "pop" trad music, and then delve into the old 78 rpms and spend time at the knees of earlier generations, and end up as well-versed in the music and tradition as anyone.
Where you start matters far less than the road you eventually choose and where it takes you.
I got into it by way of listening to cds of bands and solo players I enjoyed, and ultimately by way of the recordings of Welsh trad singers and male voice choirs my grandfather listened to in my early childhood. Never have seen (or will see) Riverdance or Titanic or anything of that ilk. I was into Irish, Scottish, and Welsh trad long before a Titanic-mad friend gave me a Gaelic Storm cd because he knew I liked "seltic music". ;)
I show the show, and enjoyed it tremedously. The music is lively, spirited etc. The dancing is/was tremendous. Although I haven't seen Flately dancing except bits and pieces, he is a great dancer, and yes his mark is on the show, he was one of the original choreographers. I haven't considered the show to be anything more than what it is, a Dance & Music performance/show, as any other ballet, modern dance, Broadway/West end etc. I'm not sure what the fuss is about.
For giggles, I went to the Riverdance website. I was trying (in vain) to find reference to "Irish Traditional Music". I don't think Whelan intended his show to be representative of Irish Traditional Music. I think those of us who play this music tend to be a little bit too critical of other genres which are perhaps similar, or music, dance, theatre etc. whose artists come from Ireland.
My interest in this music didn't evolve from Riverdance, but rather if any group, Altan. If the show or those similar, have brought new people into this music, how can that possibly be considered a bad thing?
I played in a dance show up until last year, anyone who criticises Riverdance needs their head examined (as we say in Belfast). It has given young irish muso's and dancers the chance to travel the world, and meet new friends. I understand that people have taken their inspiration to play ITM from elsewhere but if someone happened to take theirs from seeing riverdance it doesn't make their experience any less valid. (I refer to McGregor's facist comment earlier). No other folk music has such a global following and we should be grateful to any project that helped expose ITM to a wider audience even if it's got a bit of the Vegas dazzle about it. I saw Riverdance last month and it is still absolutely amazing! It's attitudes like this that give us these ridiculous notions that you can't play pipes (subtitute for any instrument) well unless 'me da and his da played before me' I hate people like that. ( or is that me being a facist??)
Never saw it live, but I enjoyed the recorded versions - two of which I bought, saying it's because my daughter enjoyed them.
Can't say any of it inspired or fueled my interest in playing, though I remember really enjoying the original "Timedance" music that Bill Whelan and Planxty put together for the Eurovision.
But I'll enjoy most shows if they're well done - Gilbert & Sullivan operas, Metalica concerts, whatever, even if they are designed for maximum bucks. Lord of the Dance was a bit too silly, though.
I don’t think very many people, if any, are saying that Riverdance shouldn’t exist. I’ve seen it on teevee and was greatly entertained, but for me personally it’s well off the mark as an expression of the best of the tradition. I would have preferred that some other format be as successful, but that’s just an individual bias developed through decades of immersion in my own view of the pure drop. I’d certainly rather see this kind of success and visibility than none at all. It’s not the first time history has failed to conform to my standards.
I`ve just followed the link to Michael Flatley`s site and have spotted a blood-stained baseball bat,obviously used in a para-military punishment beating.It you can take your eyes off Flatley sailing through the air, the weapon is lying on the stage!.I`d heard he was a boxer and a tough hombre but this is frightening!!
Not only was I trying to teach myself bodhran WELL BEFORE Riverdance came out, but I actually witnessed the creation of Riverdance:
There I was, standing on some corner of Broadway and whatever, looking for a high-priced hooker who could direct me to the nearest church, when I saw the tour bus carrying the Rockettes barreling down the street, swerving, curving, and becoming progressively more out-of-control! And--OH NO!--there was a large group of St. Paddy's Day revelers crossing the street, unaware of the certain doom approaching...
KABLAAAAM!
The bus flipped and slammed into the crowd! Bodies flew everywhere, hither and thither, until there was naught but a mass of severed limbs and writhing corpses...
But wait! There was Dr. Dex Stitcher, the greatest surgeon who ever lived...he immediately got to work, right there on the street, unwinding his cable-knit sweater and using the thread to suture as fast as he could: limb to limb, torso to limb, head to foot--he realized his error here and corrected himself--until, finally, all was well and no longer gushing blood. When everyone stood the whiskey the doctor used to anesthetize them took hold, and they began to dance with joy. A producer saw this, and, well, the rest history...
But this had no affect on me as a wanna-be Irish Traditional Musician.
By the way, Flatley is an excellent flautist and everyone involved in the production is a stellar dancer. FOUR STARS!
JfiddlerH, you might want to consider what the word fascism actually means before throwing it about so loosely... http://www.answers.com/fascism&r=67
(All right, I'm a pedant. So sue me. ;)
Bren, my husband's theory is that "facism" is what you call the syndrome that causes employers to only hire extremely pretty young girls for receptionist jobs. ;)
I was advised by the father (Irish) of a young dancer in Ennis to obtain a copy of Riverdance while we were traveling there. It turns out that it was the version for release to raise donations for Rwanda. The thing only ran 15 minutes and then repeated itself. We thought it was exciting and particularly awesome that we also knew the lead dancer (Jean Butler), opposite Flatley. Of course I had been into the music nearly 20 years so it didn't really change my directions at all.
It just made me aware that a change had occured in the cultural paradigm, if not for the musicians, at least the suppoting populace. The Irish have every good reason to be smiling about "Riverdance"
After all, I wasn't going to say "You can't spell it AND you don't know what it means". I do have a modicum of tact about me somewhere. In my left pocket, I think.
I started playing after I saw riverdance, but it had nothing to do with riverdance. I didn't know riverdance was considered ITM in some peoples minds. I remember telling someone once I played irish music, their comment was "oh you mean like that riverdance stuff" I was a bit taken a back and responded with a "mumble,mumble I guess so". I must say though micheal flatley always does make me laugh. Silly silly boy, he doesn;t have a bad life though, imagine having the freedom to do whatever suites your fancy on stage, even if it means acting idiotic and wearing revealing clothing and get paid. Tsk tsk, I suppose the world is an unfair place.
Doubt that Riverdance had a great influence on people taking up ITM, but I thought it made Irish dancing extremely popular with kids. I think that's great - helps to overcome the influence of the drivel that comes out of television sets! Not bad exercise either - mental and physical!
Riverdance is the whole reason for my existence. I saw it once and thought that it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. It made me think of beautiful natural things, like green fields, quaint old stone houses, droplets of morning dew, fresh mountain air, skylarks singing, and the farmer's wife in her bonnet taking a basket of eggs to the next door neighbours for their breakfast. I thought wow what a brilliant way to make money - I should learn how to play that music and sell it to the people. And so I learnt to play Irish music, and continued to be influenced only by the most traditional and pastoral-sounding music, just like Riverdance. Once I even made $50 dollars when I took someone's place at a session because they were on holiday or ill or something. It paid for my weekly grocery shopping spree and I could even afford some chocolate chip cookies to have with my tea of an evening. Were it not for Riverdance, I would certainly have starved that week. So I'd just like to say: "thank you Riverdance for keeping me alive".
Right, Dow... anyway, I only saw a film of the original piece that was used in the Euro-song thing when it was in Dublin that time. It was mesmerizing and beautiful. Before that I enjoyed the recording of the music that inspired the whole thing. Andy Irvine, Davy Spillane and Bill Whelan put it together -- lovely. The recording was called "East West" I think. When it all turned into Riverdance I lost interest though. I've been playing ITM for over 20 years now so the RD thing is a recent spec on the windshield that I washed off at the last petrol station.
As a wee lad, I used to listen to world music, like Les magiciens du bonheur. Then the poison of Irish Trad, and other exually damaging trads, gradually oozed into my life, finally turning me into a sour proponent of bare tradition. I didn't see Riverdance but I heard the music. It reintroduced the wonder of electronic keyboard into my musical life. Let me echo Dow - thank you Riverdance for keeping the true music in me.
I liked Riverdance quite a lot. It was a secret, guilty pleasure and I won't apologise for it. I used to think the music was wonderful, before my taste for trad grew more sophisticated... and man, all those legs! Doing all those bendy, rhythmic things! And Jean Butler's just dreamy. Still watch the Flatley-free Riverdance2 video from time to time.
I started playing post Riverdance, but was never influenced by it. I never saw the show or listened to the CD. I saw advertisements for it on TV and I got the impression that it wasn't really my scene. I've been listening to all sorts of music my entire life and had a pretty good idea of what I liked and what I didn't like, even though I couldn't always say why I liked or disliked something.
But that doesn't mean that Riverdance isn't any good. As Bobhimself said, it is what it is and it ain't what it ain't. Its affect on the world has been enormous and it has done immeasurable good for ITM in general. All Irish musicians have seen a rise in CD sales since Riverdance, and that is good.
Even though Riverdance does not fall within my taste, its existence or other's enjoyment of it does not bother me. What gets my back up are the people who cannot tell the difference between Riverdance and real ITM. Years ago we had a thing called Hooked on Classics. I hated it, but it made classical music accessible to a lot of people who had little or no previous exposure to it. To this day I know several people who are ardent classical music fans (real classical music) who got into it through that horrible Hooked on Classics. I also met some people that cannot tell the difference between Hooked on Classics and Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony as performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra. Or my all time biggest gripe, the people who do not know the difference between the theme from Mortal Combat and the original Carmina Burana by Carl Orff.
But that's the price you have to pay. This will never change: the more people you involve, the more fringe elements you get. For every additional Kevin Crawford CD that is sold due to the existence of Riverdance, there is someone who buys a Foster and Allen CD as a gift for someone who really wanted Lunasa.
But we cannot build a fence around the music. We cannot rule that people be either obsessed with Irish music or have no interest in it at all, with nothing in between. We need the people who are mildly interested in things that sound almost Irish to spend their money on the products of those that are truly Irish. We need the Riverdancers to do the marketing for ITM because they are better at reaching the people who we can't. Our job is to convert them from Riverdance to real ITM.
Yeah, and also teach them about real democracy and how to be good Christians while we're at it. (Oh, and also how to be good consumers, of course). The CWF (Celtic Waft Fundamentalist) movement is born!
"Our job is to convert them from Riverdance to real ITM" - Shrog.
Isn't it rather that it was Riverdance's job to make money for Riverdance, and plenty of it? Sure, you can't be flyin' around like that when you're 50, can you?
Most people who go for ITM, it seems to me, don't like commercialism anyway (which might be an interesting consideration in itself), so I seriously doubt whether Riverdance would have ever influenced the number of people who will be players - short-term buyers maybe.
Being RiverDANCE, it would have had a serious influence on people who would like to *dance* like that. Irish dance underwent a huge upswing in popularity after Riverdance. The vast majority of people who liked Riverdance and bought videos, went to concerts, went for the spectacle and the dancing. A bit like the Edinburgh Tattoo. The background music could have been anything really, (I hesitate to say).
Riverdance is about dance, not Rivermusic, but clearly it seems to ruffle political feathers though.
BTW, what is it about Michael Flatley that makes him so popular with women over 60?
Did anyone pack in playing ITM because of Riverdance? Come on - there's room for everyone and every type of musical expression. Let's absorb what's good and discard what doesn't work. Isn't that what a living tradition is supposed to do? In any case, anyone who gets into ITM and starts off thinking that Riverdance is a complete statement of a real tradition will soon find out different.
I'd be more worried about the ghastly wigs and costumes worn by girl irish dancers these days.
I've never seen Riverdance, so I'm qualified to take part in this thread . My wife started set dancing 4-1/2 years ago and when I went to see a ceili (I don't dance) and saw the interaction of the music and the dance I just had to learn the fiddle. So I got out an old disused instrument, had it made playable, and went on from there. Now, when I play for set dancers it's a bigger buzz than most sessions.
Trevor
I grew up in a typical American household where there were only dim indications of ethnic heritage--so I didn't grow up with this stuff. My dad was a jazz fan, and the roots music I heard the most was DIxieland. I was just starting to listen to trad music on the radio when Riverdance and Titanic hit the scene. I enjoyed Riverdance for what it was, never mistook it for the "pure drop," never talked to anyone who claimed it was the "pure drop." But I was really impressed with the tunes. I also enjoyed Titanic, for what it was, and enjoyed the trad stuff played behind a few scenes. The more I was exposed to trad music, the more it appealed to me. Somewhere during that time, I bought a tin whistle and taught myself to play it, started bringing my guitar to sessions, and encouraged my wife to take up the fiddle. So yes, without the additional exposure to trad music that RIverdance and Titanic brought to the US, I may have not fallen into the fold. Last time I checked, the musical world expanded to fit everyone who wanted to jump in, and my opinion has always been the more the merrier. I am sorry some of you feel that I am less of a person because of when I got into thisy type of music, but I hope you don't mind the fact that your opinion really doesn't bother me much. I am having too much fun playing....
When I think of Riverdance, I have mixed feelings. Orchestral ITM, commercialization, and the King Liberace of Dance are negatives. Bill Whelan, a stage full of Irish dancers and general exposure of the public to ITM are positives. It had no influence on my involvement in ITM.
As one who pays for ghastly wigs and costumes, I'm all for suppression, but don't get a vote except to walk away. But I think there's still enough value in the Irish competition dancing thing to live with the gaudy trimmings (and the over-competitiveness, pushy parents, and everything else.)
Oddly enough, the glitz and glamour in Irish dance didn't start in the US, as is often assumed - it came from Ireland.
Whether or not you liked "Riverdance" is a matter of your own subjective opinion. However, I think it best to judge the show on its own merits AS a show, not as a promotion for ITM. Traditional dance and music is the basis, not the substance, of the show. Should we criticize "My Fair Lady" as an adaptation of "Pymalion" because we all know that Eliza Doolittle would not have broken into song in Covent Garden? Or "Oklahoma!" because it doesn't feature a genuine hoedown?
I started playing trad 22 years ago. To me, Riverdance was a breath of fresh air to the theatre, and a tremendous boon to the recognition, if not the popularity, of ITM.
My biggest complaint about Riverdance is that it was promoted as “Irish music and dance” at first, sometimes even with the word "traditional" thrown in. This led to much confusion in the out-backs of ITM. People came up to us at gigs and sessions and asked if we knew any Irish music. When we told them we WERE playing Irish music, they would say, "No you aren't -- I saw Riverdance and it didn't sound like that." After a while the promoters were pressured into not using "Irish music and dance" in their ads.
Personally I thought Riverdance was very nice music and dance fusion, but I didn't associate it with ITM any more than with Bulgarian or Spanish music and dance. I blame the promoters for the defacing of Riverdance that led to its infamy among ITM aficionados.
"For, yes, in the final count, you do indeed go to 'Riverdance' primarily for the Irish dancing, always the matrix of the show, and for Bill Whelan's wonderful score and the Irish musicians - who are indeed always splendid. Yet, there could well have been a snag here. The problem is that it is difficult to create and maintain a lively choreographic form out of Irish step dancing, which has a limited vocabulary, rigid arms, a stiff upper-body and an overall tendency towards exuberance rather than emotion. It is something like an Irish stew - awfully good in itself but as a constant diet it could get monotonous, which is why it was so smart to introduce into the mix Spanish flamenco and American tap dance, two dance forms with which the Irish steps have much in common, even to the extent of actual historic links."
"The concept of 'Riverdance' is both simple and adroit. A Celtic-looking rock-like setting (actually it seems more Druidically Stonehenge than anything else) with highly colored projections to vary the look, a load of Irish music and a lot of Irish dancing. The huge popular success of the show derives in part from Moya Doherty's canny producing - all pieces are put together with breathtaking theatricality "
Yes, Jack, I can see how that kind of talk could be terribly misleading.
"Yes, Jack, I can see how that kind of talk could be terribly misleading."
You should have seen it in our local papers when it first came out. It would say stuff like: "Irish dance and music at it's best" "A traditional Irish dance and music spectacular" "Irish music and dance performed by Ireland's leading musicians and dancers" etc. etc.
might mean something entirely different to a pure dropist than to your average punter. Just a matter of style really, isn't it? Pure dropists go to sessions, average punters go to Riverdance, and there's a lot more of one than the other.
I'd really like to see more pure dropists chill out and go see Riverdance and wear a ghastly wig along - or something outrageous like that.
"Oddly enough, the glitz and glamour in Irish dance didn't start in the US, as is often assumed - it started in Ireland. As did Riverdance." - grego.
And who ever thought the Irish weren't into glitz and glam!
Oddly enough, I do know someone who packed it in as a result of RD. He used to be a good Irish fiddler with a great repertoire of tunes. This has a lot to do with his dissatisfaction with the local session scene and inability to find someone to play with who shared his 100% Pure Drop taste. But he (sadly) became infatuated with the Bulgarian influences in RD, bought one of those plucked fiddle things and a Bulgarian flute, and now spends his days learning 26/7 dance tunes. It hasn't become any easier to find a good session.
Al Brown for President. I love it. ITM snobbery is the same as any other, caused by fear and ignorence. We will soon have "Label musicians" with the rest being fake or copies.
Jack, the thing that really started it all (musically, at least) was "Timedance", presented in the 1981 Eurovision intermission.
Bill Whelan wrote that one, and it was played by the then line-up of Planxty plus Nollaig Casey and Bill himself. You can still find it on some of those "Celtic Compilation" CDs. It was actually very good, though not pure drop.
So, really, Donal Lunny is partly responible for Riverdance (gasp!!)
"Has anyone else seen the 7 minute intermission piece for Euorvision 1994...."
I have.... my cousin & his wife showed it to us when we visited them in 1995. They'd taped it off the television, and neither of them are huge fans of trad music (in fact, my cousin prefers American C/W).
I thought it was brilliant, and it was my first real exposure to the music and dance. A year later I bought a practice set of uilleann pipes and haven't looked back.
Perhaps we should also mock and belittle folks like Patsy Touhey, then? After all, he was a vaudeville performer (gasp!) and so what if he was an incredibly talented piper?
AAAARRGHRRRR He's moaning about spelling. I have a long post, written it six times, and it won't post. My son has a song called "Ignorance is Bliss", simply great if you're a red.
I saw the Euro Night thing. My first thought was "It wouldn't have happened in my day, semi-naked shameless hussies cavourtin' about the stage". It was earth shatteringly stunning, if you knew about Irish dancing and its image. And the music wasn't bad either.
Finally JfiddlerH was right for once. It opened a lot of avenues for dancers and musicians, and I don't mean financially. Dancers especially were soon in demand and if a lot of young people got around the world, fine, especially the ones from Norn Ireland who may have discovered for the first time that we are not a normal society.
I agree, Bodhran. And wasn't it was really only Michael Flatley's blousey shirts and bare chest that really upset the applecart - and he had his arms in the air, for god's sake! I'm sure it wouldn't have caused nearly so much a stir if he just had a white long sleeve shirt and black trousers! The hide of the man.
Finished. Now to business, an Aussie telling me how to spell, 'nough said.
"Ignorance is Bliss" contains the lines
"Why do the cowboys get to make all the rules, do they think the Indians are f####in' fools?". Nothing "far left" about that, you right wing....only joking.
Well, then there was Bill Cosby's mid-60s routine about Tonto always going to town and getting beat up. Tonto ends up telling the Lone Ranger there's a new rule: "Tonto no go to town."
Or on the edgier side, in the Lyle Lovett song 'If I Had A Boat' Tonto says, "Kiss my a**, I bought a boat / I'm going out to sea."
Okay already, I should have looked at y'website first! Yep, yep, -San Francisco, and all that stuff. Gotcha. Had another image in mind for some reason!
Jack'll still be right though, no worries.
Jack, you might have an Aussie contingent land in y'session one time, raise the roof a bit, get things movin' like! After all, yer only about an 18 hour flight from here. That's pretty close by our standards!
I'm as much a Bush supporter as you are a Howard supporter. (unless I'm mistaken) I met Ado in Ennis, we were definately on the same side. Aussies are always welcome here.
Jack - why do you say that?! I support a Howard low whistle if that's any indication?
99% or more of ITM players in Australia definitely wouldn't support John Howard, I'm pretty certain of that. It's fairly politicised I'd say. The mere mention in the last stages of a session is sure to start a scene. No joke!
The major national festival here is actually hosted by the Mining and Forestry Workers Union. D'yer see where it sits?
Is that the one in Canberra at the racetrack, didj? That's a wicked festival. If I'd known it was put on by a Union I mightn't have snuck in without paying...
I have never seen Riverdance. From what I have heard, it seems like an unhappy, electronically syncronized stage show with an overwhelming high performer turn-over rate.
Kerri, that's the one. Wicked and deadly for sure. 24 hour sessions over 4 days! One session had around 30 or more players, although that's fairly standard - 30 players, fiddles, pipes, flutes, boxes, set dancers etc., doing Farewell to Erin sounded just right!
"If I'd known it was put on by a Union I mightn't have snuck in without paying..."
Don't worry, plenty do, although it's getting more difficult - seems like you have to go through horse paddocks and over fences these days!
Hey, I just had a thread deleted! Wow, how cool is that!
Well.....I LOVE Riverdance ,and all you people who stand up,puff their chests forward and proudly announce "I've never seen Riverdance " really give me the sh*ts..Why cut yourself off from something that may give you pleasure ?
I'd never heard of Irish Music before seeing the video of Riverdance and when I saw it,it absolutely knocked me for a six....still does... after many viewings.Davey Spillane's pipe piece,Jean Butler dancing to the Countess Cathleen,the Spanish bit etc. etc.
I'm grateful that RD exposed me to Irish music and Irish trad and all that that encompasses is about all I listen to/play these days.
I'll finish off my bit with a quote......I dont know the blokes name but at his property in the US,he built a replica of Stonehenge using old autombiles instead of the stones.....anyway his words of wisdom.......
"Lighten up folks,we're not gonna get out of this thing alive"
Bye for now.......Charlie........
Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Are there anyone here who started playing Irish music before Riverdance? Did you start playing Irish (traditional) music after you saw Riverdance (or similar show)?
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by nemethmik
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I happened to have started playing Irish music after I saw Riverdance, but one has nothing to do with the other. I don't consider Riverdance to be "real" ITM.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I've been to see River Dance but it's had no real influence on me playing Irish or any other kind of music. I was well down that road before it ever came on the scene!
Possibly, it may have influenced the choice of material some of us play, i.e not necessarily music from the show but it may have had some impact on the style of new tunes in general. On the other hand, some of the veteran musicians might have become even more bloody minded and determined to concentrate on "pure drop" and the old tunes as either a conscious or unconscious backlash against the commercialism of the whole thing.
In my case, I just tend to listen to and play what I like without, hopefully, being over influenced by any new trend or fashionable thing that comes along.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by John J.
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I got started long before Riverdance, or Titanic, became a phenomenon. I eased into ITM gradually until one day I realized that it was really all I wanted to play. No regrets and I haven't looked back since.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Bill Reeder
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
What's Riverdance?
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I don't really know what riverdance is. I've always vaguely supposed it's some sort of quasi-irish-dance show. Like you get Winnie the Pooh on Ice and all that sort of kitsch.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Never seen it, started playing highland pipes years before it came out.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I started playing ITM about thirty-five years ago. Riverdance is a recent blip on the screen and like most traddies I have mixed feelings about it, but it’s probably ultimately good for the tradition. It is what it is and it ain’t what it ain’t.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I hope there isn't a lot of musicians who started playing because they saw Riverdance, that would be really sad.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Beheader
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Yes, this is true. However, if you asked most people here who they first enjoyed listening to "in music" generally, maybe even what inspired them to play, they probably would be too embarrassed to answer the question honestly. For instance, one of my favourite Irish songs(as a boy)was "If you're Irish, come into the parlour". "Poppa Piccolino" was a close second in International terms whereas for Scottish music, "The Bluebell Polka" was well up there. I still play the latter.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by John J.
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I first got interested in Irish trad music by way of bluegrass and American old timey music. First heard pipes and fiddle in Ireland in about 1965. Then picked up Mick Moloney's radio program in the 1970s and was fully and instantly converted the first time I heard the Bothy Band. A Boys of the Lough concert in Boston in 1978 clinched it. Yes, Riverdance is a historical blip.
But I've seen a few people drawn in by Riverdance and other "pop" trad music, and then delve into the old 78 rpms and spend time at the knees of earlier generations, and end up as well-versed in the music and tradition as anyone.
Where you start matters far less than the road you eventually choose and where it takes you.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I got into it by way of listening to cds of bands and solo players I enjoyed, and ultimately by way of the recordings of Welsh trad singers and male voice choirs my grandfather listened to in my early childhood. Never have seen (or will see) Riverdance or Titanic or anything of that ilk. I was into Irish, Scottish, and Welsh trad long before a Titanic-mad friend gave me a Gaelic Storm cd because he knew I liked "seltic music". ;)
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by sara g
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I've been playing Irish trad for most of my life. I've yet to actually see "riverdance" (Is it a show, a movie or what??).
Still, if it gets people into trad music, especially if they're willing to be polite (And more importantly, willing to listen), then more power to it.
I, as usual, find myself in agreement with Will.
-Kysh
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Kysh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I show the show, and enjoyed it tremedously. The music is lively, spirited etc. The dancing is/was tremendous. Although I haven't seen Flately dancing except bits and pieces, he is a great dancer, and yes his mark is on the show, he was one of the original choreographers. I haven't considered the show to be anything more than what it is, a Dance & Music performance/show, as any other ballet, modern dance, Broadway/West end etc. I'm not sure what the fuss is about.
For giggles, I went to the Riverdance website. I was trying (in vain) to find reference to "Irish Traditional Music". I don't think Whelan intended his show to be representative of Irish Traditional Music. I think those of us who play this music tend to be a little bit too critical of other genres which are perhaps similar, or music, dance, theatre etc. whose artists come from Ireland.
My interest in this music didn't evolve from Riverdance, but rather if any group, Altan. If the show or those similar, have brought new people into this music, how can that possibly be considered a bad thing?
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Ah, "saw the show", my copyeditor is at lunch.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I just never get tired of posting this link:
http://www.michaelflatley.com/
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Kerri Brown
don't forget to check out the photo gallery. it seems as though it gets an update weekly.
http://www.michaelflatley.com/photogallery2.cfm?id=850
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
You've got to admit, the man is marketed well. No fangs images though. You have one over him Kerri!
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
"I just never get tired of posting this link:
http://www.michaelflatley.com/";
(Gasp!) That is (choke) … some of the most (sniff) … inspiring stuff I’ve ever read.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I played in a dance show up until last year, anyone who criticises Riverdance needs their head examined (as we say in Belfast). It has given young irish muso's and dancers the chance to travel the world, and meet new friends. I understand that people have taken their inspiration to play ITM from elsewhere but if someone happened to take theirs from seeing riverdance it doesn't make their experience any less valid. (I refer to McGregor's facist comment earlier). No other folk music has such a global following and we should be grateful to any project that helped expose ITM to a wider audience even if it's got a bit of the Vegas dazzle about it. I saw Riverdance last month and it is still absolutely amazing! It's attitudes like this that give us these ridiculous notions that you can't play pipes (subtitute for any instrument) well unless 'me da and his da played before me' I hate people like that. ( or is that me being a facist??)
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by jfiddlerh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Never saw it live, but I enjoyed the recorded versions - two of which I bought, saying it's because my daughter enjoyed them.
Can't say any of it inspired or fueled my interest in playing, though I remember really enjoying the original "Timedance" music that Bill Whelan and Planxty put together for the Eurovision.
But I'll enjoy most shows if they're well done - Gilbert & Sullivan operas, Metalica concerts, whatever, even if they are designed for maximum bucks. Lord of the Dance was a bit too silly, though.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by grego
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I don’t think very many people, if any, are saying that Riverdance shouldn’t exist. I’ve seen it on teevee and was greatly entertained, but for me personally it’s well off the mark as an expression of the best of the tradition. I would have preferred that some other format be as successful, but that’s just an individual bias developed through decades of immersion in my own view of the pure drop. I’d certainly rather see this kind of success and visibility than none at all. It’s not the first time history has failed to conform to my standards.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I`ve just followed the link to Michael Flatley`s site and have spotted a blood-stained baseball bat,obviously used in a para-military punishment beating.It you can take your eyes off Flatley sailing through the air, the weapon is lying on the stage!.I`d heard he was a boxer and a tough hombre but this is frightening!!
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by cos
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Not only was I trying to teach myself bodhran WELL BEFORE Riverdance came out, but I actually witnessed the creation of Riverdance:
There I was, standing on some corner of Broadway and whatever, looking for a high-priced hooker who could direct me to the nearest church, when I saw the tour bus carrying the Rockettes barreling down the street, swerving, curving, and becoming progressively more out-of-control! And--OH NO!--there was a large group of St. Paddy's Day revelers crossing the street, unaware of the certain doom approaching...
KABLAAAAM!
The bus flipped and slammed into the crowd! Bodies flew everywhere, hither and thither, until there was naught but a mass of severed limbs and writhing corpses...
But wait! There was Dr. Dex Stitcher, the greatest surgeon who ever lived...he immediately got to work, right there on the street, unwinding his cable-knit sweater and using the thread to suture as fast as he could: limb to limb, torso to limb, head to foot--he realized his error here and corrected himself--until, finally, all was well and no longer gushing blood. When everyone stood the whiskey the doctor used to anesthetize them took hold, and they began to dance with joy. A producer saw this, and, well, the rest history...
But this had no affect on me as a wanna-be Irish Traditional Musician.
By the way, Flatley is an excellent flautist and everyone involved in the production is a stellar dancer. FOUR STARS!
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by grymater
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
JfiddlerH turning Bolshie. That's my boy.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
JfiddlerH, you might want to consider what the word fascism actually means before throwing it about so loosely...
http://www.answers.com/fascism&r=67
(All right, I'm a pedant. So sue me. ;)
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by sara g
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
The loosely-thrown word was in fact "facism". Maybe it's a Belfast expression.
My mother-in-law was given a video of Riverdance, which she had heard was quite good. She gave it back, saying, "It's jist folk duncin' !"
and I liked the folk-punk buskers I saw in Fremantle selling a CD called "Liverdance".
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by Bren
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Bren, my husband's theory is that "facism" is what you call the syndrome that causes employers to only hire extremely pretty young girls for receptionist jobs. ;)
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by sara g
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I was advised by the father (Irish) of a young dancer in Ennis to obtain a copy of Riverdance while we were traveling there. It turns out that it was the version for release to raise donations for Rwanda. The thing only ran 15 minutes and then repeated itself. We thought it was exciting and particularly awesome that we also knew the lead dancer (Jean Butler), opposite Flatley. Of course I had been into the music nearly 20 years so it didn't really change my directions at all.
It just made me aware that a change had occured in the cultural paradigm, if not for the musicians, at least the suppoting populace. The Irish have every good reason to be smiling about "Riverdance"
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by wvwhistler
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
After all, I wasn't going to say "You can't spell it AND you don't know what it means". I do have a modicum of tact about me somewhere. In my left pocket, I think.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by sara g
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Yes, bren, Liverdance! It's a screensaver and it's available for free here...
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,6196,00.asp
Now this will give you a taste for real tradition!
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by grego
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I started playing after I saw riverdance, but it had nothing to do with riverdance. I didn't know riverdance was considered ITM in some peoples minds. I remember telling someone once I played irish music, their comment was "oh you mean like that riverdance stuff" I was a bit taken a back and responded with a "mumble,mumble I guess so". I must say though micheal flatley always does make me laugh. Silly silly boy, he doesn;t have a bad life though, imagine having the freedom to do whatever suites your fancy on stage, even if it means acting idiotic and wearing revealing clothing and get paid. Tsk tsk, I suppose the world is an unfair place.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by banana512
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Doubt that Riverdance had a great influence on people taking up ITM, but I thought it made Irish dancing extremely popular with kids. I think that's great - helps to overcome the influence of the drivel that comes out of television sets! Not bad exercise either - mental and physical!
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I agree with Will - where you start is far less important that where you end up!
Been playing the music since the 70s, myself, so that's one thing we can't blame Flatley for!
Saw Riverdance on the telly - some bits were exciting, but I got bored after awhile...
Why do you want to know, nemethmik? And what about you? How does it figure in your story?
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by kris
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Riverdance is the whole reason for my existence. I saw it once and thought that it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. It made me think of beautiful natural things, like green fields, quaint old stone houses, droplets of morning dew, fresh mountain air, skylarks singing, and the farmer's wife in her bonnet taking a basket of eggs to the next door neighbours for their breakfast. I thought wow what a brilliant way to make money - I should learn how to play that music and sell it to the people. And so I learnt to play Irish music, and continued to be influenced only by the most traditional and pastoral-sounding music, just like Riverdance. Once I even made $50 dollars when I took someone's place at a session because they were on holiday or ill or something. It paid for my weekly grocery shopping spree and I could even afford some chocolate chip cookies to have with my tea of an evening. Were it not for Riverdance, I would certainly have starved that week. So I'd just like to say: "thank you Riverdance for keeping me alive".
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Right, Dow... anyway, I only saw a film of the original piece that was used in the Euro-song thing when it was in Dublin that time. It was mesmerizing and beautiful. Before that I enjoyed the recording of the music that inspired the whole thing. Andy Irvine, Davy Spillane and Bill Whelan put it together -- lovely. The recording was called "East West" I think. When it all turned into Riverdance I lost interest though. I've been playing ITM for over 20 years now so the RD thing is a recent spec on the windshield that I washed off at the last petrol station.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
As a wee lad, I used to listen to world music, like Les magiciens du bonheur. Then the poison of Irish Trad, and other exually damaging trads, gradually oozed into my life, finally turning me into a sour proponent of bare tradition. I didn't see Riverdance but I heard the music. It reintroduced the wonder of electronic keyboard into my musical life. Let me echo Dow - thank you Riverdance for keeping the true music in me.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Janek
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
'equally', I meant - sorry for Freudian slip.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Janek
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I liked Riverdance quite a lot. It was a secret, guilty pleasure and I won't apologise for it. I used to think the music was wonderful, before my taste for trad grew more sophisticated... and man, all those legs! Doing all those bendy, rhythmic things! And Jean Butler's just dreamy. Still watch the Flatley-free Riverdance2 video from time to time.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Q
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I started playing post Riverdance, but was never influenced by it. I never saw the show or listened to the CD. I saw advertisements for it on TV and I got the impression that it wasn't really my scene. I've been listening to all sorts of music my entire life and had a pretty good idea of what I liked and what I didn't like, even though I couldn't always say why I liked or disliked something.
But that doesn't mean that Riverdance isn't any good. As Bobhimself said, it is what it is and it ain't what it ain't. Its affect on the world has been enormous and it has done immeasurable good for ITM in general. All Irish musicians have seen a rise in CD sales since Riverdance, and that is good.
Even though Riverdance does not fall within my taste, its existence or other's enjoyment of it does not bother me. What gets my back up are the people who cannot tell the difference between Riverdance and real ITM. Years ago we had a thing called Hooked on Classics. I hated it, but it made classical music accessible to a lot of people who had little or no previous exposure to it. To this day I know several people who are ardent classical music fans (real classical music) who got into it through that horrible Hooked on Classics. I also met some people that cannot tell the difference between Hooked on Classics and Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony as performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra. Or my all time biggest gripe, the people who do not know the difference between the theme from Mortal Combat and the original Carmina Burana by Carl Orff.
But that's the price you have to pay. This will never change: the more people you involve, the more fringe elements you get. For every additional Kevin Crawford CD that is sold due to the existence of Riverdance, there is someone who buys a Foster and Allen CD as a gift for someone who really wanted Lunasa.
But we cannot build a fence around the music. We cannot rule that people be either obsessed with Irish music or have no interest in it at all, with nothing in between. We need the people who are mildly interested in things that sound almost Irish to spend their money on the products of those that are truly Irish. We need the Riverdancers to do the marketing for ITM because they are better at reaching the people who we can't. Our job is to convert them from Riverdance to real ITM.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Shrog
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Yeah, and also teach them about real democracy and how to be good Christians while we're at it. (Oh, and also how to be good consumers, of course). The CWF (Celtic Waft Fundamentalist) movement is born!
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I'm sure you don't mean that, Dow.
"Our job is to convert them from Riverdance to real ITM" - Shrog.
Isn't it rather that it was Riverdance's job to make money for Riverdance, and plenty of it? Sure, you can't be flyin' around like that when you're 50, can you?
Most people who go for ITM, it seems to me, don't like commercialism anyway (which might be an interesting consideration in itself), so I seriously doubt whether Riverdance would have ever influenced the number of people who will be players - short-term buyers maybe.
Being RiverDANCE, it would have had a serious influence on people who would like to *dance* like that. Irish dance underwent a huge upswing in popularity after Riverdance. The vast majority of people who liked Riverdance and bought videos, went to concerts, went for the spectacle and the dancing. A bit like the Edinburgh Tattoo. The background music could have been anything really, (I hesitate to say).
Riverdance is about dance, not Rivermusic, but clearly it seems to ruffle political feathers though.
BTW, what is it about Michael Flatley that makes him so popular with women over 60?
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Did anyone pack in playing ITM because of Riverdance? Come on - there's room for everyone and every type of musical expression. Let's absorb what's good and discard what doesn't work. Isn't that what a living tradition is supposed to do? In any case, anyone who gets into ITM and starts off thinking that Riverdance is a complete statement of a real tradition will soon find out different.
I'd be more worried about the ghastly wigs and costumes worn by girl irish dancers these days.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Lissagriffin
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I second pediho's motion to suppress the ghastly wigs and costumes.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I've never seen Riverdance, so I'm qualified to take part in this thread
. My wife started set dancing 4-1/2 years ago and when I went to see a ceili (I don't dance) and saw the interaction of the music and the dance I just had to learn the fiddle. So I got out an old disused instrument, had it made playable, and went on from there. Now, when I play for set dancers it's a bigger buzz than most sessions.
Trevor
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I grew up in a typical American household where there were only dim indications of ethnic heritage--so I didn't grow up with this stuff. My dad was a jazz fan, and the roots music I heard the most was DIxieland. I was just starting to listen to trad music on the radio when Riverdance and Titanic hit the scene. I enjoyed Riverdance for what it was, never mistook it for the "pure drop," never talked to anyone who claimed it was the "pure drop." But I was really impressed with the tunes. I also enjoyed Titanic, for what it was, and enjoyed the trad stuff played behind a few scenes. The more I was exposed to trad music, the more it appealed to me. Somewhere during that time, I bought a tin whistle and taught myself to play it, started bringing my guitar to sessions, and encouraged my wife to take up the fiddle. So yes, without the additional exposure to trad music that RIverdance and Titanic brought to the US, I may have not fallen into the fold. Last time I checked, the musical world expanded to fit everyone who wanted to jump in, and my opinion has always been the more the merrier. I am sorry some of you feel that I am less of a person because of when I got into thisy type of music, but I hope you don't mind the fact that your opinion really doesn't bother me much. I am having too much fun playing....
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
When I think of Riverdance, I have mixed feelings. Orchestral ITM, commercialization, and the King Liberace of Dance are negatives. Bill Whelan, a stage full of Irish dancers and general exposure of the public to ITM are positives. It had no influence on my involvement in ITM.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
As one who pays for ghastly wigs and costumes, I'm all for suppression, but don't get a vote except to walk away. But I think there's still enough value in the Irish competition dancing thing to live with the gaudy trimmings (and the over-competitiveness, pushy parents, and everything else.)
Oddly enough, the glitz and glamour in Irish dance didn't start in the US, as is often assumed - it came from Ireland.
As did Riverdance.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by grego
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Whether or not you liked "Riverdance" is a matter of your own subjective opinion. However, I think it best to judge the show on its own merits AS a show, not as a promotion for ITM. Traditional dance and music is the basis, not the substance, of the show. Should we criticize "My Fair Lady" as an adaptation of "Pymalion" because we all know that Eliza Doolittle would not have broken into song in Covent Garden? Or "Oklahoma!" because it doesn't feature a genuine hoedown?
I started playing trad 22 years ago. To me, Riverdance was a breath of fresh air to the theatre, and a tremendous boon to the recognition, if not the popularity, of ITM.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Ailin
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
My biggest complaint about Riverdance is that it was promoted as “Irish music and dance” at first, sometimes even with the word "traditional" thrown in. This led to much confusion in the out-backs of ITM. People came up to us at gigs and sessions and asked if we knew any Irish music. When we told them we WERE playing Irish music, they would say, "No you aren't -- I saw Riverdance and it didn't sound like that." After a while the promoters were pressured into not using "Irish music and dance" in their ads.
Personally I thought Riverdance was very nice music and dance fusion, but I didn't associate it with ITM any more than with Bulgarian or Spanish music and dance. I blame the promoters for the defacing of Riverdance that led to its infamy among ITM aficionados.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
From http://www.riverdance.com
"For, yes, in the final count, you do indeed go to 'Riverdance' primarily for the Irish dancing, always the matrix of the show, and for Bill Whelan's wonderful score and the Irish musicians - who are indeed always splendid. Yet, there could well have been a snag here. The problem is that it is difficult to create and maintain a lively choreographic form out of Irish step dancing, which has a limited vocabulary, rigid arms, a stiff upper-body and an overall tendency towards exuberance rather than emotion. It is something like an Irish stew - awfully good in itself but as a constant diet it could get monotonous, which is why it was so smart to introduce into the mix Spanish flamenco and American tap dance, two dance forms with which the Irish steps have much in common, even to the extent of actual historic links."
"The concept of 'Riverdance' is both simple and adroit. A Celtic-looking rock-like setting (actually it seems more Druidically Stonehenge than anything else) with highly colored projections to vary the look, a load of Irish music and a lot of Irish dancing. The huge popular success of the show derives in part from Moya Doherty's canny producing - all pieces are put together with breathtaking theatricality "
Yes, Jack, I can see how that kind of talk could be terribly misleading.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Hey, what's wrong with Irish stew as a constant diet?
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by grego
Is it near quitting time yet, Kerri?
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by grego
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
God I hope so greg.
I like this one too (exerpt from the song lyrics in Act 1):
"I am living to nourish you, cherish you
I am pulsing the blood in your veins
Feel the magic and power of surrender
To life. Uisce Beatha."
I feel the same way about whiskey. Maybe I should go see this show.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
"Yes, Jack, I can see how that kind of talk could be terribly misleading."
You should have seen it in our local papers when it first came out. It would say stuff like: "Irish dance and music at it's best" "A traditional Irish dance and music spectacular" "Irish music and dance performed by Ireland's leading musicians and dancers" etc. etc.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Sloppy journalism. The plague of the 21st century.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
"...at it's best" -
might mean something entirely different to a pure dropist than to your average punter. Just a matter of style really, isn't it? Pure dropists go to sessions, average punters go to Riverdance, and there's a lot more of one than the other.
I'd really like to see more pure dropists chill out and go see Riverdance and wear a ghastly wig along - or something outrageous like that.
"Oddly enough, the glitz and glamour in Irish dance didn't start in the US, as is often assumed - it started in Ireland. As did Riverdance." - grego.
And who ever thought the Irish weren't into glitz and glam!
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Oddly enough, I do know someone who packed it in as a result of RD. He used to be a good Irish fiddler with a great repertoire of tunes. This has a lot to do with his dissatisfaction with the local session scene and inability to find someone to play with who shared his 100% Pure Drop taste. But he (sadly) became infatuated with the Bulgarian influences in RD, bought one of those plucked fiddle things and a Bulgarian flute, and now spends his days learning 26/7 dance tunes. It hasn't become any easier to find a good session.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Gzeg
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
testing
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Duijera Dubh -- who are you referring to that needs to "chill out"?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
More pure dropists like myself, Jack, who quite enjoyed Riverdance.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Has anyone else seen the 7 minute intermission piece for Eurovision 1994 that started the whole thing?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
This f###ing thing won't work.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Apologies, it seems to be working now. A thousand apologies.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Al Brown for President. I love it. ITM snobbery is the same as any other, caused by fear and ignorence. We will soon have "Label musicians" with the rest being fake or copies.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I saw it, Jack. Brilliant, I thought! It seemed to stop the whole world in its tracks.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Jack, the thing that really started it all (musically, at least) was "Timedance", presented in the 1981 Eurovision intermission.
Bill Whelan wrote that one, and it was played by the then line-up of Planxty plus Nollaig Casey and Bill himself. You can still find it on some of those "Celtic Compilation" CDs. It was actually very good, though not pure drop.
So, really, Donal Lunny is partly responible for Riverdance (gasp!!)
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by grego
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
"Has anyone else seen the 7 minute intermission piece for Euorvision 1994...."
I have.... my cousin & his wife showed it to us when we visited them in 1995. They'd taped it off the television, and neither of them are huge fans of trad music (in fact, my cousin prefers American C/W).
I thought it was brilliant, and it was my first real exposure to the music and dance. A year later I bought a practice set of uilleann pipes and haven't looked back.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Tunes!
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
What about Ragus? Is that pure drop?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Bodhran Bliss - just quietly, mate; that's "ignorance" not "ignorence".
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Maybe "ignorence" IS Bliss?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by grego
....sorry,sorry,sorry,sorrry.....
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by grego
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I agree with bodhran bliss re: ITM snobbery.
Perhaps we should also mock and belittle folks like Patsy Touhey, then? After all, he was a vaudeville performer (gasp!) and so what if he was an incredibly talented piper?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Tunes!
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Now, now, grego, you'll have to be pullin your head in there.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
AAAARRGHRRRR He's moaning about spelling. I have a long post, written it six times, and it won't post. My son has a song called "Ignorance is Bliss", simply great if you're a red.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I saw the Euro Night thing. My first thought was "It wouldn't have happened in my day, semi-naked shameless hussies cavourtin' about the stage". It was earth shatteringly stunning, if you knew about Irish dancing and its image. And the music wasn't bad either.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Never moanin', Bodhran; lookin' after your own credibility is all.
Now, is that 'red' or 'read'?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
He does have a fixation about far left politics, doesn't he? ;)
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by sara g
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Finally JfiddlerH was right for once. It opened a lot of avenues for dancers and musicians, and I don't mean financially. Dancers especially were soon in demand and if a lot of young people got around the world, fine, especially the ones from Norn Ireland who may have discovered for the first time that we are not a normal society.
And we got rid of JfiddlerH for a year. Bliss.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I agree, Bodhran. And wasn't it was really only Michael Flatley's blousey shirts and bare chest that really upset the applecart - and he had his arms in the air, for god's sake! I'm sure it wouldn't have caused nearly so much a stir if he just had a white long sleeve shirt and black trousers! The hide of the man.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Finished. Now to business, an Aussie telling me how to spell, 'nough said.
"Ignorance is Bliss" contains the lines
"Why do the cowboys get to make all the rules, do they think the Indians are f####in' fools?". Nothing "far left" about that, you right wing....only joking.
And don't let Jack put the frighteners on you.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
This is great. A computer that works.Who wants to start an argument?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Jack'll be right. He's a good ol' boy, I reckon.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
"Who wants to start an argument?"!
You go first.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
"Why do the cowboys get to make all the rules, do they think the Indians are f####in' fools?"
"There must have been Indian sergeants."
8^)
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Tunes!
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
(with thanks to George Carlin).
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Tunes!
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Well, then there was Bill Cosby's mid-60s routine about Tonto always going to town and getting beat up. Tonto ends up telling the Lone Ranger there's a new rule: "Tonto no go to town."
Or on the edgier side, in the Lyle Lovett song 'If I Had A Boat' Tonto says, "Kiss my a**, I bought a boat / I'm going out to sea."
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by sara g
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Aww, now pleeeze *don't* go all American on us *now*!
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Hey, it wasn't an American who brought cowboys and indians into it! ;)
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by sara g
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Yeah, but let's not encourage it!
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
"Jack'll be right. He's a good ol' boy, I reckon. "
hahahaha
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Okay already, I should have looked at y'website first! Yep, yep, -San Francisco, and all that stuff. Gotcha. Had another image in mind for some reason!
Jack'll still be right though, no worries.
Jack, you might have an Aussie contingent land in y'session one time, raise the roof a bit, get things movin' like! After all, yer only about an 18 hour flight from here. That's pretty close by our standards!
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I'm as much a Bush supporter as you are a Howard supporter. (unless I'm mistaken) I met Ado in Ennis, we were definately on the same side. Aussies are always welcome here.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Jack - why do you say that?! I support a Howard low whistle if that's any indication?
99% or more of ITM players in Australia definitely wouldn't support John Howard, I'm pretty certain of that. It's fairly politicised I'd say. The mere mention in the last stages of a session is sure to start a scene. No joke!
The major national festival here is actually hosted by the Mining and Forestry Workers Union. D'yer see where it sits?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Is that the one in Canberra at the racetrack, didj? That's a wicked festival. If I'd known it was put on by a Union I mightn't have snuck in without paying...
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
I have never seen Riverdance. From what I have heard, it seems like an unhappy, electronically syncronized stage show with an overwhelming high performer turn-over rate.
# Posted on March 26th 2005 by esfiddle
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Kerri, that's the one. Wicked and deadly for sure. 24 hour sessions over 4 days! One session had around 30 or more players, although that's fairly standard - 30 players, fiddles, pipes, flutes, boxes, set dancers etc., doing Farewell to Erin sounded just right!
"If I'd known it was put on by a Union I mightn't have snuck in without paying..."
Don't worry, plenty do, although it's getting more difficult - seems like you have to go through horse paddocks and over fences these days!
Hey, I just had a thread deleted! Wow, how cool is that!
# Posted on March 27th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Well.....I LOVE Riverdance ,and all you people who stand up,puff their chests forward and proudly announce "I've never seen Riverdance " really give me the sh*ts..Why cut yourself off from something that may give you pleasure ?
I'd never heard of Irish Music before seeing the video of Riverdance and when I saw it,it absolutely knocked me for a six....still does... after many viewings.Davey Spillane's pipe piece,Jean Butler dancing to the Countess Cathleen,the Spanish bit etc. etc.
I'm grateful that RD exposed me to Irish music and Irish trad and all that that encompasses is about all I listen to/play these days.
I'll finish off my bit with a quote......I dont know the blokes name but at his property in the US,he built a replica of Stonehenge using old autombiles instead of the stones.....anyway his words of wisdom.......
"Lighten up folks,we're not gonna get out of this thing alive"
Bye for now.......Charlie........
# Posted on March 29th 2005 by zoukboy
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Fogot to add..
The bloke called his creation Carhenge......
I like him a lot.........adios.......Charlie.......
# Posted on March 29th 2005 by zoukboy
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
God bless Riverdance
# Posted on March 29th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Anyone who did not see Riverdance
Riverdance has saved the world from mediocrity!
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh