I have a question for fiddle players. Does your back ever get sore if you have been playing alot? I've been dealing with a so called injury since fiddle camp in august. I've been to all sorts of medical exams, xtras, nerve tests, physical thearpy, the alexander technique, etc . . I still have pain though. Im getting an MRI this friday to check for damage to my spinal chord that coudl have happened from a concussion I got from lacrosse. Anywho, my question is, have any of you had similar experiences, and how did you deal with it? I know alot of it can be accredited to playing with tension, and a crap set up thats the wrong length for my long long neck, but I've been working on playing without tension for months, and I got a new chin rest, and shoulder pad. For anyone else who has ever delt with a instrument related injury I give you my deepest sympathies. Its a pain. (no pun intended, ok so it was a bit intended, but its still lame) I get a burning pain along the back of my hand, forarm, neck and back. It also goes numb occasionally.
That's not good, Anna. Glad you're getting it looked into. You might want to give one of the local symphony orchestras a call and ask if they have a list of doctors and therapists who work with their violinists and are familiar with the problems that violinists have. Who's your classical teacher?
Anna, I've been through my share of injuries (musical and a bit too aggressive on the mountain bike and snowboard; we won't go into the 20-foot unicycle, or trapeze injuries . I've also had some nasty nerve injuries. The burning and numbness sure sound like a nerve problem, and it could be close to the spine since it's affecting your whole arm and into your neck and back. An osteopath, neurologist, and/or physical therapist who specializes in spinal or nerve stuff would be your best bet for tracing this to its source.
The bad news is that nerve problems can take a long time to heal. I once crushed the ulnar nerve in my bow arm. It took well over a year to regain full use of my hand, but it did come back (the docs weren't so sure it would). I also dislocated two vertebrae when I was 12. That led to all sorts of weird symptoms, but eventually healed up just fine ('cept for this annoy--ing tic). The good n-n-n-n-news is that you're young--this WILL improoooo-o-ove if you give it time and don't re-injure it-it-it-it.
Have you had any nerve conduction tests? They put electrodes on your skin and measure how fast a small electric current takes to travel the nerve.
The other thing that crosses my mind--don't rule out an underlying, pre-exisiting problem. You might be dealing with a condition called Thoracic Outlet Compression Syndrome, where the nerve and artery bundle get pinched, usually by your clavicle or pectoralis minor muscles. This can cause the burning and numbness you describe, and it's often posture-related--holding the fiddle can bring it on. I know because I have it, and it stopped me from playing guitar (my arm up on the bout of an acoustic guitar would go totally numb within 15 minutes). There are stretches and exercises you can do to lessen the problem.
Meanwhile, if playing fiddle makes your arm go numb or burn, don't overdo it. Repeatedly pinching a nerve usually just leads to a longer recovery time.
See if Sandra has some contacts for you, Anna. I can't remember if she and I have ever discussed this, so you never know (we've only ever talked a couple of times). But def call the symphony for referrals. Also, see if it's still Emily that Brian is attached to, because she'd be a fab person to talk to about this.
Sheesh. It's been busy, and I'm just starting work on a website. Tomorrow I assist one of our out of town teachers for a software class from 10:00-2:00, and then I do more work -- got a dress to get done this week. *sigh*
I couple of years ago I got a compression fracture to one of my vertebre and started having the same sort of thing happen that you describe. I tried various therapies, but the one that actually worked was Iyengar Yoga. It taught me how to correct posture problems that were occurring while I played that were aggrevating the injury. It also helped get rid of some scar tissue around the injury itself. I also learned exercises that help relieve tension in my back when it does occur.
I have to take a trip to the chiropractor every now and again to get bones in my neck put back into place. While playing the fiddle may not be the only reason for this it's certainly contributes greatly to my neck problems. No matter how much I relax and improve my posture I still end up quite stiff after playing a lot.
The chiropractor has told me that he's treated a few fiddle / violin players for similar problems.
Oh, say hello to Sandra from all her Scandinavian dancing friends in Santa Fe. We still miss having her live music down here, and Boulder's lucky to have her.
Thanks guys for the suggestions. cathy,I will definitly let sandra know you guys miss her. I dont blame you for missing her, she's a sweatheart, and a very good musician/teache. Will, if you're ever in town I would love to meet you and your son. Zina, sorry about the work load, hope it doesn;t kill you. Talk to guy guys later.
Murph, how does Iyengar Yoga differ from normal yoga? I've been thinking about yoga for awhile now, because Im bloody inflexible, and I really think it would help my back.
Anna, I suggest that you take a look at The New Approach by Kato Havas. I have mentioned this before on this site. I really benefited by consulting this book. I had to take myself through a transition period to change my technique, but it has been well worth it.
I also have a long neck and have dealt with some the issues that you might be experiencing, aside from the lacrosse injury.
I have found that yoga is an excellent way to bring the body back into allignment. A friend also recommended the following book: "Pain Free : A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain", by PETE EGOSCUE. You can find that online at Amazon.com.
And if you are really inflexible, please look into yoga. I wish that I did it more often, but if I feel my body getting overly tense or stiff, I defnitely get a session in to loosen things up and set them right again.
W is for William who threw out his spine?
(Sorry, Will, couldn't resist once you invoked a Gorey topic. *grin*)
Anna, you may also want to look into therapeutic massage and/or somatic retraining. The massage can help relax chronic tensions you'll have built up around the pain. Somatic retraining teaches your muscles how to stop reflexively tensing up in a way they're used to, long after the cause is gone. I had both of these while recovering from chronic joint and nerve damage due to a childhood injury, and they helped me tremendously. The core book on somatic retraining is Somatics by Thomas Hanna, whioch has exercises you can do yourself, and there are loads of certified practitioners out there. Talk to your doctors/therapists...
Lo, these many years ago, when I were still a young lad at university, a friend of mine wrote a song that turned out to be a perfect setting for The Gashlycrumb Tinies and I, and a few others, have been performing it in song ever since.
It's actually quite a crowd pleaser, with the right crowd.
Hi everyone, don't know if my reply is worth the time or if this thread is dead...
I've fiddled since 1985. I'm 30 years old. I got in a snowboarding accident Jan 16th, 2005. I got a stiff neck for it and figured I'd just pinched a nerve, which I've done before. A week later I was shampooing my hair and my left index finger went numb. My left arm also ached intensely in a few select spots. It hurt the worst when I held up my fiddle and I feared for the future of my my music. I endured this pain and numbness for 3 weeks before finally getting an MRI. The MRI revealed that I had ruptured my C6-7 disc in my neck (upper back). The ruptured disc was compressing the nerve that supplied feeling to my left arm/hand. The doctor recommended surgery for my neck (they usually suggest waiting a while for similar problems in the lower back, but not neck). I had never had back problems before and I loathed the idea of surgery on my neck... GET YOUR @&^%# KNIFE AWAY FROM MY SPINE!!! I had a hemi-laminotomy and a micro-discectomy on Feb. 21st. They removed only the exploded portion of my disc and sewed me back up (they did not fuse my vertebrae). I am still recovering. Since the surgery the aching in my left arm has gotten worse, the numbness has increased, and my left arm is noticeably weaker. They say all of this is expected until the swelling from the surgery has subsided. The doctor said sometimes it takes up to a year for the nerve damage to heal. The good news is that I can still fiddle, everything still functions, it's just accompanied by pain and numbness. The doctor said there is no reason to fear further injury from playing, so I am just thinking of it as a form of continuing physical therapy.
I was going to post an inquiry to this group before my surgery and see if any other fiddlers had experienced this before. I fear that this is somehow ultimately fiddle-related. The fact that my symptoms were the strongest when I was actually fiddling made me think this. Has anyone had this problem before? Are there any neurologists that specialize in music-related injuries? I would love to hear from anyone who can shed light on this. I feel singled out and unfairly punished... I guess that's what I get for being a snowboarder and a trad musician. I'm quite thankful for being employed and having good health insurance though. I would tell any musician who is experiencing debilitating pain that it is worth a trip to a qualified doctor.
Scary story John. It's possible that you've got some sort of repetitive use wear-and-tear on your cervical disks that left you prone to more serious injury from the snowboarding incident. But 30 is young, so it seems more likely that you blew those disks out from the accident itself. Holding the fiddle afterward may have added some strain to those already ruptured disks, but they probably would've gotten worse anyway.
I've had serious nerve damage more times than I can count (including two ruptured lumbar disks), and it does usually take a long time to heal. It's a slow process of letting the inflamation subside and also working the affected neuromuscular systems, which seems to tease the nerves back into functioning. There may be some relearning for certain movements and to regain speed and fluidity, but patience usually wins out.
Good luck with the recovery. Give it every opportunity to heal up, and you'll look back on this as having dodged a bullet.
uknown injury from fiddle?
uknown injury from fiddle?
I have a question for fiddle players. Does your back ever get sore if you have been playing alot? I've been dealing with a so called injury since fiddle camp in august. I've been to all sorts of medical exams, xtras, nerve tests, physical thearpy, the alexander technique, etc . . I still have pain though. Im getting an MRI this friday to check for damage to my spinal chord that coudl have happened from a concussion I got from lacrosse. Anywho, my question is, have any of you had similar experiences, and how did you deal with it? I know alot of it can be accredited to playing with tension, and a crap set up thats the wrong length for my long long neck, but I've been working on playing without tension for months, and I got a new chin rest, and shoulder pad. For anyone else who has ever delt with a instrument related injury I give you my deepest sympathies. Its a pain. (no pun intended, ok so it was a bit intended, but its still lame) I get a burning pain along the back of my hand, forarm, neck and back. It also goes numb occasionally.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by banana512
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
That's not good, Anna. Glad you're getting it looked into. You might want to give one of the local symphony orchestras a call and ask if they have a list of doctors and therapists who work with their violinists and are familiar with the problems that violinists have. Who's your classical teacher?
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Sandra Wong
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by banana512
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
good idea about the symphonys. Hows your day been Zina?
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by banana512
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Anna, I've been through my share of injuries (musical and a bit too aggressive on the mountain bike and snowboard; we won't go into the 20-foot unicycle, or trapeze injuries
. I've also had some nasty nerve injuries. The burning and numbness sure sound like a nerve problem, and it could be close to the spine since it's affecting your whole arm and into your neck and back. An osteopath, neurologist, and/or physical therapist who specializes in spinal or nerve stuff would be your best bet for tracing this to its source.
The bad news is that nerve problems can take a long time to heal. I once crushed the ulnar nerve in my bow arm. It took well over a year to regain full use of my hand, but it did come back (the docs weren't so sure it would). I also dislocated two vertebrae when I was 12. That led to all sorts of weird symptoms, but eventually healed up just fine ('cept for this annoy--ing tic). The good n-n-n-n-news is that you're young--this WILL improoooo-o-ove if you give it time and don't re-injure it-it-it-it.
Have you had any nerve conduction tests? They put electrodes on your skin and measure how fast a small electric current takes to travel the nerve.
The other thing that crosses my mind--don't rule out an underlying, pre-exisiting problem. You might be dealing with a condition called Thoracic Outlet Compression Syndrome, where the nerve and artery bundle get pinched, usually by your clavicle or pectoralis minor muscles. This can cause the burning and numbness you describe, and it's often posture-related--holding the fiddle can bring it on. I know because I have it, and it stopped me from playing guitar (my arm up on the bout of an acoustic guitar would go totally numb within 15 minutes). There are stretches and exercises you can do to lessen the problem.
Meanwhile, if playing fiddle makes your arm go numb or burn, don't overdo it. Repeatedly pinching a nerve usually just leads to a longer recovery time.
Good luck with this and keep us posted.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
See if Sandra has some contacts for you, Anna. I can't remember if she and I have ever discussed this, so you never know (we've only ever talked a couple of times). But def call the symphony for referrals. Also, see if it's still Emily that Brian is attached to, because she'd be a fab person to talk to about this.
Sheesh. It's been busy, and I'm just starting work on a website. Tomorrow I assist one of our out of town teachers for a software class from 10:00-2:00, and then I do more work -- got a dress to get done this week. *sigh*
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
And, don't get too scared by Will's post. He's normal. Really.
Next time he's in town, I'll invite you over. I bet you'd like his oldest son.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
I do paint a bit of an Amphi-Gorey childhood, don't I.....
I can see it now--Anna on her violin, Evan cranking his Les Paul through the 150 watt amp that goes with us on vacations....
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
I couple of years ago I got a compression fracture to one of my vertebre and started having the same sort of thing happen that you describe. I tried various therapies, but the one that actually worked was Iyengar Yoga. It taught me how to correct posture problems that were occurring while I played that were aggrevating the injury. It also helped get rid of some scar tissue around the injury itself. I also learned exercises that help relieve tension in my back when it does occur.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Murph
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
I have to take a trip to the chiropractor every now and again to get bones in my neck put back into place. While playing the fiddle may not be the only reason for this it's certainly contributes greatly to my neck problems. No matter how much I relax and improve my posture I still end up quite stiff after playing a lot.
The chiropractor has told me that he's treated a few fiddle / violin players for similar problems.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by oraghalm
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Murph, I didn't know that! You'll have to tell me the whole story sometime.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Oh, say hello to Sandra from all her Scandinavian dancing friends in Santa Fe. We still miss having her live music down here, and Boulder's lucky to have her.
Cathy
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by cj
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Thanks guys for the suggestions. cathy,I will definitly let sandra know you guys miss her. I dont blame you for missing her, she's a sweatheart, and a very good musician/teache. Will, if you're ever in town I would love to meet you and your son. Zina, sorry about the work load, hope it doesn;t kill you. Talk to guy guys later.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by banana512
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Murph, how does Iyengar Yoga differ from normal yoga? I've been thinking about yoga for awhile now, because Im bloody inflexible, and I really think it would help my back.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by banana512
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Anna, I suggest that you take a look at The New Approach by Kato Havas. I have mentioned this before on this site. I really benefited by consulting this book. I had to take myself through a transition period to change my technique, but it has been well worth it.
Check out: http://www.katohavas.com/
for more information.
I also have a long neck and have dealt with some the issues that you might be experiencing, aside from the lacrosse injury.
I have found that yoga is an excellent way to bring the body back into allignment. A friend also recommended the following book: "Pain Free : A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain", by PETE EGOSCUE. You can find that online at Amazon.com.
And if you are really inflexible, please look into yoga. I wish that I did it more often, but if I feel my body getting overly tense or stiff, I defnitely get a session in to loosen things up and set them right again.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Jode
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
W is for William who threw out his spine?
(Sorry, Will, couldn't resist once you invoked a Gorey topic. *grin*)
Anna, you may also want to look into therapeutic massage and/or somatic retraining. The massage can help relax chronic tensions you'll have built up around the pain. Somatic retraining teaches your muscles how to stop reflexively tensing up in a way they're used to, long after the cause is gone. I had both of these while recovering from chronic joint and nerve damage due to a childhood injury, and they helped me tremendously. The core book on somatic retraining is Somatics by Thomas Hanna, whioch has exercises you can do yourself, and there are loads of certified practitioners out there. Talk to your doctors/therapists...
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by sara g
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Visions of vertebrae being deposited in a sinister-looking trash can by a spineless wisp of a lad....
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Who's wearing gloves of grey suede and white footgear intended for tennis?
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by sara g
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
". . .a Gorey topic. . ."
Lo, these many years ago, when I were still a young lad at university, a friend of mine wrote a song that turned out to be a perfect setting for The Gashlycrumb Tinies and I, and a few others, have been performing it in song ever since.
It's actually quite a crowd pleaser, with the right crowd.
KFG
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by KFG
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Hopefully after I get an MRI, they will find whats wrong. Thanks again people for the suggestions
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by banana512
Ruptured C6-7
Hi everyone, don't know if my reply is worth the time or if this thread is dead...
I've fiddled since 1985. I'm 30 years old. I got in a snowboarding accident Jan 16th, 2005. I got a stiff neck for it and figured I'd just pinched a nerve, which I've done before. A week later I was shampooing my hair and my left index finger went numb. My left arm also ached intensely in a few select spots. It hurt the worst when I held up my fiddle and I feared for the future of my my music. I endured this pain and numbness for 3 weeks before finally getting an MRI. The MRI revealed that I had ruptured my C6-7 disc in my neck (upper back). The ruptured disc was compressing the nerve that supplied feeling to my left arm/hand. The doctor recommended surgery for my neck (they usually suggest waiting a while for similar problems in the lower back, but not neck). I had never had back problems before and I loathed the idea of surgery on my neck... GET YOUR @&^%# KNIFE AWAY FROM MY SPINE!!! I had a hemi-laminotomy and a micro-discectomy on Feb. 21st. They removed only the exploded portion of my disc and sewed me back up (they did not fuse my vertebrae). I am still recovering. Since the surgery the aching in my left arm has gotten worse, the numbness has increased, and my left arm is noticeably weaker. They say all of this is expected until the swelling from the surgery has subsided. The doctor said sometimes it takes up to a year for the nerve damage to heal. The good news is that I can still fiddle, everything still functions, it's just accompanied by pain and numbness. The doctor said there is no reason to fear further injury from playing, so I am just thinking of it as a form of continuing physical therapy.
I was going to post an inquiry to this group before my surgery and see if any other fiddlers had experienced this before. I fear that this is somehow ultimately fiddle-related. The fact that my symptoms were the strongest when I was actually fiddling made me think this. Has anyone had this problem before? Are there any neurologists that specialize in music-related injuries? I would love to hear from anyone who can shed light on this. I feel singled out and unfairly punished... I guess that's what I get for being a snowboarder and a trad musician. I'm quite thankful for being employed and having good health insurance though. I would tell any musician who is experiencing debilitating pain that it is worth a trip to a qualified doctor.
Patiently Convalescing...
# Posted on March 3rd 2005 by John Sylte
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Scary story John. It's possible that you've got some sort of repetitive use wear-and-tear on your cervical disks that left you prone to more serious injury from the snowboarding incident. But 30 is young, so it seems more likely that you blew those disks out from the accident itself. Holding the fiddle afterward may have added some strain to those already ruptured disks, but they probably would've gotten worse anyway.
I've had serious nerve damage more times than I can count (including two ruptured lumbar disks), and it does usually take a long time to heal. It's a slow process of letting the inflamation subside and also working the affected neuromuscular systems, which seems to tease the nerves back into functioning. There may be some relearning for certain movements and to regain speed and fluidity, but patience usually wins out.
Good luck with the recovery. Give it every opportunity to heal up, and you'll look back on this as having dodged a bullet.
# Posted on March 3rd 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
Oh, hello John.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by Bridgee Stewart
Re: uknown injury from fiddle?
I know you.
You're John Sylte, haha.
Rathdrum guy.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by Bridgee Stewart