I don't play fiddle, but my wife does, and she leaves maintenance of the instrument to me (since I am a long time guitar player, she considers me competent to do things like change strings, tune up, etc). I guess you would call me her roadie. Anyhow, I have been putting on whatever strings I can buy at the local music stores, which usually only have one option of fiddle strings to chose from (one told me by the way that he didn't sell strings for fiddles, only violins, so you get the idea of what attention they pay to this part of their inventory). We get catalogs from a place called Southwest Strings that has lots of options to choose from, but I am not sure what I should choose. I am sure she would play better with strings that were chosen more wisely. So, after that long wind-up, here is my question for all you fiddle players--what strings do you think are best, and why?
Thanks (and be gentle with me, this is the first time I have started a discussion here),
AL Brown
Strings are a very personal thing and depend on what sound you prefer, music you play, and what your fiddle prefers. I used to use Dominants (Thomastik), but now prefer the new Infield Reds. Violin strings can be a bit pricey at your local shop, so I order mine over the internet.
start there, wear them out and see if you like them...then you can decide if you want warmer, brighter, more focused, take the edge off, etc or stick with what you have...but ya gotta start somewhere and Dominant is a fine string..
Well, I use Helicore because they just rock, especially with tuning. So easy especially if you have fine tuners! I'm actually getting myself a set of super flexible you'll be hearing those soon. Hopefully they're good, they definitely sound good on Bob's fiddle! [The Bob that came one night long ago.... The one that lives on a boat I think?]
Yep, Dominants are a fair place to start. Consider swapping out the E string for something else--even a cheapo Goldbrokat, or a Helicore E. And don't be surprised if the Dominant A unravels on you within a couple weeks.
Prims are equivalent to Dominants, but seem to wear better (and the E's are easier on the ear).
Do NOT put a set of Evah Pirazzi's (by Pirastro) on, whatever you do. She'll never want to play anything else (and they're pricey).
Whatever you do, don't get a gold E string- a steel wire will work just fine (but experiment with different brands). Gold Es tend to squeak easily when string crossing. I use Zyex strings by D'Addario, and love how they sound on my fiddle. This brand also breaks in really quickly and keeps it's tone for a long time. Thomastik Dominants have long been regarded as a safe bet when unsure, but considering I haven't been trying out new string brands lately, I would go with what Will has to say. And yes, Dominants begin to unravel after a few weeks...
I use the full set, Jode, mediums, with the plain E (gold is available, but made no discernible difference, except to my wallet).
I should point out that one reason I stick with the Pirazzis is how they *feel under my fingers.* Soft and silky, but still responsive. I'd probably favor them just for this even if they didn't sound better than other strings.
But they may not be appropriate for people who like to really lean heavily on the bow. And they may not sound good on all fiddles. I have not found them to be as "bright" as some reviewers claim, but they do produce a clearer tone than some strings, and some people interpret this as "less traditional." I suppose my self-taught tone makes up for this.
In the past I've also really liked Helicores, Dominants, Prims, and Obligatos. Zyex and Infeld Reds did not win me over, but I know very good fiddlers who swear by them.
The Pirazzis settle in with a couple of hours of playing, and really hit their stride after 4 to 5 days at full tension. I can usually get 3 to 4 months out of a set (with somewhere around 15 to 20 hours a week of playing) before the tone starts to deteriorate.
I'm wondering, after a quick search online, it looks like Prim makes both a steel core string and a synthetic core string, but I can't find different model names to distinguish between the two. Anyone know about this?
". . .gold is available, but made no discernible difference, except to my wallet. . ."
That is its intended function.
Any day now I expect to see strings touting their "molecular alignment" to take advantage of "quantum flux effects" that can't be measured and if you can't hear the difference it's because you're deficient in some way that will make you a social pariah among your musical peers.
Of course they're just repackaged Super Sensitives, but there will be people will swear they hear a remarkable difference, refuse to use anything else from then on, and pay $99 a set for the priveledge.
For E strings go with Gold Label (pirastro), Goldbrokat, or Westminster...E strings are not expensive, so experiment away...
Dominant E sux...
I have tried the Gold Evah E , and with the Evah set, the gold E was quite nice...different, but nice.
I just prefer simple now, I suppose
If you have trouble with strings unravelling/fraying, you need to have your nut examined ..it may be too thin for the string..if breaking/fraying at the bridge, then your problem lyes there..if somewhere on the string, trim your nails.
I have never had any trouble with any string coming apart that was the strings' fault.
Sunnybear, it's not that simple. Over the years I eliminated every possible cause of the unwinding A's: nut, fingerboard dressing, hand oils, callouses (I smooth my fingertips before playing each time with an emery board), nails trimmed, etc. Dominant A's are the only ones I've ever had a problem with, and I've heard plenty of other fiddlers say the same thing. Count yourself blessed that they work for you.
Of course I've had a few defective strings from other brands as well, but these were the exception, not the norm. With Dominants, I'd get one A in 20 that could last more than three weeks. Every other string I've tried easily gets me through three months or more of heavy playing. Most go dead before they unwind.
I've played the Prim steel cores and liked them about as well as the Helicores, but I've also seen advertisements for a "chamber music" synth core Prim violin string. But never found any actually for sale.
I should be getting a commission. Even some well-known fiddlers have seen me ranting about them here and gotten addicted. Shocking to think that some people actually believe what they read....
I do like the Pirazzis. If I couldn't get a set and needed strings right away, I'd probably go with Obligatos, Helicores, Prim, and Dominants, in that order of preference. Which still puts Dominants way ahead of a bunch of other strings.
btw, Pirastro is GREAT about sending out sample sets of strings...they have sent me a set of Evahs, a set of Oblogaos, a set of Tonicas, a set of Tonicas in 3/4 for my sons violin, and 2 Cello strings for my wifes cello...just Google them and send them an e-mail and see what happens. i did wait a while for them, but tell them what you are after and see what they send...it helps to say something like " I like Dominants, but am having trouble with the A unwinding..what is your comparable and do you have samples to try?" they will probably send Tonicas or such (they are the closest in Pirastros lineup to Dominants)
My local shop gives me sets to try. They take my feedback and that of other local players and base their orders for inventory in part on that.
Bottom line is that I like the sound and feel and responsiveness of Pirazzis over Dominants anyway, and they last longer (for me), so they end up costing the same or less than "less expensive" strings.
As far as E's go, the Pirastro No. 1 E is supposed to be real good. I just ordered another set of the Pirazzis with the #1 E substituted, so we'll see how it goes. I'm not too fond of the regular E. Some days it seems to work fine, others it's all squeaky. I've found that I get better results on my fiddle with a wound E anyway.
will, your problem with strings could be in your hads ph. I know a guitarrist with this problem, too acid. Just try to play in other instrument. If the strings do the same it is in your hands, not in the fiddle.
Is a wound E a little softer in tone? On one of my 2 fiddles the E is disproportionately loud (it has Infield Reds) - I was thinking of trying a wound E. The other fiddle has dominants, and the A is sounding iffy - I think the winding is coming a bit loose. The strings aren't too old. If I replaced it with a different string, what might it be best to try - an Infield red or blue perhaps? I put Helicores on my son's fiddle as I know they won't get replaced for a year - they seem fine - nice and bright and responsive.
Currently, I’m experimenting with Thomastik Spirocores for the A and D, with an Infeld Red for the G (to give just that little more resonance). The Spirocores are very smooth and responsive to play on. I’d call the tone neutral, which means you hear more of the quality of the fiddle itself. Previously, I’ve used Dominants, Zyex, Helicore, Infeld Reds and Obligato. The last two I’ve liked best out of that group of five. BTW, if you use steel core strings it’s a good idea to have the strings close to the fingerboard (i.e. a low action) it makes fingering that much easier.
BTW (2), I think it was the eminent violinist Maxim Vengerov who says he uses the cheapest E’s available – the sort you pay a dollar for to put on a school fiddle.
Trevor
I didn't know you could get wound E's. I would have thought they would be too weak to hold the tension because the core wire would be so tiny. Makes me wonder if there are other things I don't know...
I used to think it was skin acids, but as I said, no other brand of string unravels like the Dominant A. And I've never had this problem on banjo, guitar, or mandolin.
Again, it's a widespread complaint--I've heard many, many fiddlers grouch about Dominant A's unwinding, nearly always around the index finger in first position. Obviously, in trad music, that's a well-used spot, and the string has to take a lot of friction there compared to, say, the low A on the G string. But other brands hold up to it just fine. I think Thomastik needs to improve their A string wrap.
I've been using Corelli Chrystal strings and my "A" string unravels too before the other strings are past their usefulness. It's always the reason I've had to replace them. The last time, I had a used A string which was still in fairly good condition so I was able to get away without changing the whole set.
I think a lot of strings are vastly overpriced considering some of the quality control problems and design issues. I'm sure with some of the technology that's out there, they could develop a string that more responsive, has good tone and longevity than some of the current offerings. Question is, would they want to? Sales would slow if strings were actually reliable for more than two months. (insert conspiracy theory here). Like Will, I'm addicted to Pirazzi's but the cost is ridiculous. Part of that is the EU origin though, which will probably only get worse as the dollar continues to decline vs the Euro.
Wholly cow! I just looked up some online prices for Pirazzis. The range was around $45-95 and the $45's are on backorder. My first car didn't cost that much.
The worst part is that's a good price. I've seen them as high as $65. of course it could be worse. I was looking at prices for pure gut strings for Baroque violin (Not that I have one, but hoping to dabble), those are like $70 at least. I don't know if they last more or less time than synthetics.
Oops, strike that about the gut strings. Found them for $33.15 on juststrings.com. Now that I'm really off-topic, let's rejoin our regularly scheduled discussion........
Well, just so you're prepared, the reason they invented synthetic strings in the first place (Segovia gets credit for this and they appeared first on his guitar) is because they last a godzillion times longer and stay in tune 10 godzillion times longer.
If you're going to start playing gut strings, buy a lot of them.
Yeah, but these are for a Baroque violin being used with a Baroque bow and playing at A=415. Shorter neck, lower neck angle, wedged fingerboard. Plus the fingerboard and tailpiece are in maple, with no fine tuner. Wound synthetic strings are anethema to this instrument. Well, actually I have to use a wound G, but that's because I can't find an unwound, plain gut one. The G never got used much in EM and Baroque anyway. Unfortunately, they don't seem to make unwound synthetic gut strings.
I didn't say don't use 'em, and I adore the tone of the baroque violin, especially if played with a German bow.
I just said be prepared to buy a lot of them and to spend a lot of time tuning is all.
By the way, this whole thread really makes me feel like a bit of a hick for getting my strings by stealing a bit of barbed wire. Yeah, the tone leaves a little to be desired, but they sure do last.
Well, I hope in future to do some experiments in German bow making, because I want to do some experiments in using the violin as a fully chordal instrument for vocal accompaniment.
But that's not going to help either one of us right now.
Right now I have books stacked on my tablesaw because I don't have enough shelves and that's the only free space to put them, but I can't make more shelves, because my tablesaw has books stacked on top of it.
Lutherie is right out, and I desperately need to whip up a new banjo as well.
Just a historical note …
When I started learning the cello in my early teens almost every string player used gut strings. The A and D were uncovered gut, and the G and C were covered to give them more weight so that a reasonable sound could be got out of them. The A would typically last a few months and them would gradually fray in the bowing area. That was the warning to replace it, otherwise it would probably snap at an embarassing moment. Strangely, it seemd to give its best tone when it was starting to fray. The D would last a little longer than the A - a couple of months perhaps. The G and C, being covered, lasted for ages.
Tuning was always a problem with the gut strings. It would take a new string, especially the A and D, up to three or four days to settle. Some players would keep new strings tuned up on a spare instrument so that they could be transferred to their working instrument when required. The tuning of gut strings was always affected by temperature and humidity, and also just by the mere act of playing. Typically, the A and D would go flat, and the C and G would go sharp. No micrometer adjusters of course - not that they would have been any use with gut strings - so you had to make sure the pegs were always in good condition.
After a few years steel strings started to become available as the world economy perked up after WWII, so I bought a set with micrometer adjusters. I can’t now remember who made those strings, but after gut they were heaven to play, staying in tune and apparently lasting for ever. I think they were solid strings, because they didn’t have the flexibility of spiral core steel strings. I soon found out that the action that was ok for gut was way too high for those steel strings so I brought the bridge down a bit. About that time my cello teacher, a very respected soloist and teacher (who refused to teach for exams or competitions!), started using steel strings – Thomastic Ropecore, if my memory serves correct. He continued using flexible steel strings to the end of his days.
Although I have been using either steel cored strings, alone or mixed with synthetic core, I have in recent years used covered gut strings (Eudoxa) on a second cello I had then – not so much for orchestral playing but because they were rather nice for playing Bach. Currently, on the cello I’m using Larsen A and D (steel-core) with Obligato G and C (synthetic core). The Obligatos are starting to sound a little tired now so after my next concert in a couple of weeks time I’ll replace them, possibly with Thomastic Spirocore.
When my fiddle strings need renewing (which is about every 6 months) I generally try a different set to see how they affect the sound and playing. BTW, cello strings are just too damned expensive to warrant changing them that frequently, except in an emergency!
Yeah, I've been student model cello shopping of late, and pretty quickly figured out that I'd better think of the cello price as a hundred dollars higher than what it says on the tag, just to put a decent set of strings on it, plus a couple hundred to have it setup.
I could save a lot of money if my musical tastes weren't so eclectic, but I probably wouldn't have as much fun.
Helicore do an aluminium wound E but I don't know what difference it makes. There's a useful sound spectrum chart of their products on http://www.daddariobowed.com/BOWProdCat.aspx?ID=4
I may try these again when I buy a new set.
As someone who has only ever used Dominants, after Will's comments, I'm suddenly tempted to try something different (i.e. the Pirazzis) for a change, expensive as the trial may be (best price I've found is GBP40.66 for a set, inc VAT & P&P).
Just a couple of questions:(or anyone else that has used them). Will: you said that "they might not be appropriate for people that like to really lean heavily on the bow". I think I'd put myself in that category, particularly in sessions, so I'm obviously wondering why you said that.
Also it seems that they come in three varieties, Soft, Medium & Hard. Any idea what the difference is?
Rog, in answer to your query about soft, medium and hard strings I can do no better than to quote the relevant passage from the very useful Ifshin Violins website, http://www.ifshinviolins.com/features_guide.html#gauge,
“In general a thicker than normal string (a “hard” string) will require more tension in order to bring it up to pitch. This increase in tension will produce more volume and sometimes a fuller sound but with a slower response. A thinner (soft) string requires less tension and will give a faster response, but with less volume and a thinner, slightly more focused sound. What gauge string you choose will depend on the qualities of the particular instrument you are playing. A violin may need a thicker string to give it more "punch" or power, or more fullness of sound. Yet on other instruments, those thick strings will choke the sound and make it unresponsive and dull. On the other hand, a thinner string might help an instrument with a dull, unfocused, fuzzy sound but might sound shrill and thin on others. The majority of string players use the medium gauges.”
Oops, I've been busy (working!) and didn't realize Rog addressed a question to me.
I've used only the medium gauge Pirazzis, though I'm tempted to order a set of heavy gauge just to see how they'd sound. My fiddle has good volume and projection, but there are times where a bit more punch would be nice (last night's session beseiged by college students). I have tried light gauges in other string brands and never got results that I liked, so I pretty much stick with mediums.
As for leaning hard on the bow...my experience is that lower tension strings can mush out, actually distorting the pitch, when you really bear down on them. The effect is similar to bending a string with a left-hand finger on guitar. While this can be used in musical ways, it's note generally what you're looking for when playing Irish trad.
The Pirazzis feel "stretchy" to me, under my fingers, and under my bow. More so than, say, Helicores. So if you're used to leaning hard on your Helicores, you'll likely be bending notes out of pitch if you switch to Pirazzis.
Of course, you can adjust your bow pressure to compensate for this, and in time you'll find the sweet spot to get maximum volume out of the Pirazzis (or any other synthetic core string) without pushing them into the next county.
I've also seen muddy fiddles come alive after switching from steel core strings (generally higher tension) to synthetic core strings, presumably because the lighter tension allowed the top to resonate better. And then you didn't have to lean on them so much to get the volume you want.
P.S. I guess I should add that my own bowing varies in terms of how much pressure I use with the bow, but overall tends toward the lighter side, letting the weight of the bow itself do most of the work. Being a responsive string, the Pirazzis excel at this.
I don't know that they're "heavier" in gauge, but they do feel slightly less elastic to me. That's a subjective judgment call (though I have recently played on both Pirazzis and Dominants).
Juststrings.com or Quinn strings had a listing of different fiddle strings, showing the gauges of individual strings, so you could compare gauges straight across, Pirazzi mediums to Dominant mediums. But my gut hunch is that even if the gauges are the same or nearly so, the wrappings and core materials still give a different feel. Put it this way: the Pirazzis feel "soft" compared to most other strings I've played. It's not a huge, glaring difference, but other people I know have commented on it as well, so it is "noticeable." I *like* that softer feel, but some people might not.
well, i succumbed to point-and-click temptation, and the new strings should arrive soon... i'll let you know how i get on. i don't think i've *ever* replaced all the strings at once... what with that and a long overdue bow rehair (only about half the hairs left after 8 months or so), i'm really looking forward to the experience!
Good questions. What I mean by "responsive" is that the string is quick to sound, and will produce a fuller tone at low volume (and bow pressure) than a less responsive string would. In general, and within reason, strings under lower tension tend to be more responsive, but also not as loud as strings under higher tension. So a light gauge steel string can be more responsive than, say, a heavy gauge synth core string.
Steel strings have come a long way since their early days, and rope core steel strings are popular among many fiddlers. But the same can be said for synth core strings. What type of string works best on your fiddle for your playing depends much, much more on your fiddle and your bowing and your ear than it does on any given string's popularity.
Rog, if you do replace the whole set, there are two approaches to this. (Ignore me if you already know all this.)
Either way, it's a good idea to loosen all of the strings a whole step or two so that one (the E or A is most likely) doesn't break when another string is completely loosened.
The first way is to remove and install just one string at a time. You can swab the fingerboard, graphite the nut, and check your tuning pegs one string at a time.
The second way is to remove all four strings at once to do a more thorough job of cleaning the fingerboard and nut. The risk here is that, without tension on the fiddle top, the soundpost may move or even fall down. The bridge will certainly fall down (unless you've never cleaned the rosin off the top and it's glued in place . Re-setting a soundpost requires a special tool, no small amount of patience, and an educated idea of where the soundpost belongs. A millimeter here or there can make a huge difference in the tone of your fiddle, and the bridge will need to be placed properly as well, so don't mess with this unless you know what you're doing or you can take it to someone who does to put back together what you've taken apart.
I’m sure Will won’t mind if I add to his last post. If a soundpost falls over or shifts when the strings are let down that’s usually a sign the thing is too loose – it has probably shrunk with time – and needs to be replaced.
If you need to take all the strings off, as you would if you were to replace the tailpiece or do something to the bridge, and you don’t want to take risks with the soundpost, the safest thing to do is to immobilise the fiddle flat while you’re doing the job and not to jolt it.
When I replaced a tailpiece a while ago I first removed the chinrest, placed the fiddle in its case, let the strings and bridge down as described by Will and took the string ends out of the old tailpiece. Following that, I gently eased the old tailpiece over the button, without moving the fiddle, and put the new one on the same way. Then I reversed the other steps. Make sure you gradually bring the strings up to pitch (not above it – that’s only too easy to do with the E, and that string won’t take it), and at a fairly late stage in the process make sure the bridge is in the right place, vertical and aligned with the fingerboard. You will of course have already lubricated the bridge and nut grooves with pencil lead.
Before you start, if you’re happy with the placement of the bridge, it’s a good idea to mark the position of the bridge. I do this with tiny bits of Post-It paper on the belly at the corners of the bridge; the paper easily removeable and doesn’t leave marks on the varnish.
Trevor
Thanks to all for the advice you have provided. Judging from other discussion strings about fiddle topics, I knew this would draw some responses!
Now I just have to choose between all the options presented.
Thanks,
AL Brown
I put on my first set of Evah Pirazzi's last Friday, before a recording session on Saturday. (It was the old...these strings are too old and won't hold their tuning so I will just deal with the potential stretching of the new strings.)
I was recording with a group, so did not get to evaluate them too closely, however, here are my initial thoughts:
My first reaction was that the E string really sang out and had a lovely tone. This stayed pretty consistent and I was quite pleased with that fact. The other strings seemed to give me more volume too. The tone was different from my usual Dominants, but I will have to do further testing in that area.
The strings did not feel too soft to me. I was a little afraid of Will's comment that a hard bow might bend the note a little. I dug in at times, and did not notice a change. Generally, my bow is pretty light, but I do dig in when I cannot hear myself very well.
Overall, I am fairly impressed. I will get some house time with the strings this weekend and give them the dining room test. Also, perhaps the house party test. And maybe the session test tonight!
In conclusion, I would like to see how they behave over the course of their lifespan, and what happens to tone and volume. If I have other observations over the next couple of weeks, I might post if anyone is interested.
Do. I love the things, myself. Hope you're another convert of Will's, because they cost enough that I want to know my dismay at getting addicted to the things at such high cost is shared! ;)
After a few weeks of playing the Evah's, they are still playing well. One thing I have noted is that they may in fact be softer than other strings. The benefit here is that my bowed triplets seem easier to play and crisper. I like that!
There has been a ghosty/scratchiness to them though, kind of like that rasp of new strings. I noticed this the first time when I was trying out my friend's bows. I need to look into this further, as my fiddle might just have opened up due to dryness/humidity issues. I am not sure if it is the strings or my fiddle.
The other thing that I like about them is the volume or sound projection. They do make my fiddle a touch louder, and since it is a fairly quiet fiddle.
So, Zina, I'm with you so far. Usually, it takes me some time before I come to a full decision. But, I will keep on minding them and will almost certainly buy another set when these are done. If I continue to get that scratchy sound, and it is not my fiddle opening, then I will probably buy a set of Dominants too and compare the two.
Jode, when I started using Pirazzis, I also switched to a lighter rosin, from Hill dark to Millant Deroux. It's not as tacky and seems to give a smoother bow sound. But I've since switched back to the Hill dark for a bit more traction in sessions.
I'm also currently playing on a set of Prims just for a change of pace. I like them a lot (especially for $17 USD!), though I'll go back to the Pirazzis as soon as these give out.
My last set of Pirazzis lasted 6 months (of daily playing) before their tone started to mush out. And I love how they feel under my fingers (the Prims feel rough by comparison, but I like them better than Helicores).
After playing them pretty hard, what with two recording sessions, lots of practice, and a good few "green season" gigs, the Pirazzi's seemed to break down.
I was initally very pleased with the E string, but that was the first to go wobbly on me. It was really difficult to keep in tune at the end. In fact, I took it off there last week to stabilize the tuning for another recording session.
After I swapped out the E, I was happier with the overall sound. But then I was out at the session last night and the G string was giving me trouble, which is odd.
So here I am again, just two months later, and I am wondering whether I should change my strings again for the big gig this weekend.
I did really like the vibrance of the Pirazzis. They projected well. But I am unhappy with their lifespan. I bought a set of Helicores and may also try Prims. But I won't give up on the Pirazzis. It is certainly useful to know that you can slap them on and get a great sound quickly out of them. That's better than the Dominants that take days to break in.
Interesting. I've had the same trouble, but not within two months. More like four months or more. Still, that's what convinced me to try the Prims, and they have been extremely stable. I gotta say, for $17, these are great strings. I may try Helicores again just to compare them to the Prims.
Hmmm. usually my Evahs have lasted a good 5 to 6 months. This set is nearly blown, they went on just before St. Pat's. Maybe it has something to do with trekking back and forth between California and Colorado? Or maybe the production run?
One person's experiement with strings continues: after taking the Pirazzis off, I tried the Prims on Will's suggestion, and after talking to Chris Quinn at Quinn Violins. I tried them for a short while. Chris said they take a bit to break in. However, they never seemed to break in on my fiddle. Again, there was a scatchiness to them, and no longer ghostly. The A string was especially raspy and I had to give up on them.
Just this last Saturday, I put on a three-string set of Helicores. There was an immediate improvement of the tone. We did another recording session last night, so I had an opportunity to listen to them closely. They are certainly not as bright as the Evah's, but the tone really smoothed out. Gone was any trace of raspiness. I thought that the A and D strings were especially nice, but will give the G string time to come around. I did not try the E string as I had a Goldbrokat on and it was in good shape.
I will probably stick with these for a little while, and see how they do as far as life-span. If the G string doesn't improve, I might swap that out.
An interim conclusion: since my fiddle tends to the high end, I should look for strings with a mellower tone.
Will and Zina, perhaps you both have fiddles with a nicer low end and like the "brightness"? I will be interested to see how the Helicore's treat you Will, if you try them.
Yes, my new fiddle has a very nice low end, and also I like my fiddle sound, overall, more bright than the dark (and to my ear, more muffled) tones that are more prevalent among Irish fiddles. This fiddle really suits me, I'm adoring it even if I'm still having problems not overplaying it, and the Evahs so far are still the best fit I've found. I'm thinking of trying out a set of Prims on them, more or less out a spirit of inquiry.
Like you, recently I've found that the E strings give out much quicker than the rest of the set, and I've also had some problems with the G strings, and once with the D.
As I suspected. I like a bright sound too, but the Evah's and especially the Prims gave me too much of a buzz, or raspy sound on my fiddle. Perhaps I could do what others have suggested and write to Pirastro, tell them my story, and hope they will send me some samples.
Zina, I think you and Will should get a sponsorship deal going with Pirastro for the Evah's. Maybe you could get an artist to draw up your likeness for the cover.
Nearly a year later, I finally tried some Tonicas. I think that I would have to change my playing style in order to get the best out of these strings. They are too soft and unresponsive for the way I like to play. I guess I push down hard with the bow. But when I ease off I don't like what it does to my bowing style. I'd say that will end my experiments with strings. I think I will settle into Heliocores. It seems to be a good match for my fiddle, bow and style.
I used to use Dominants back in the day when my fiddle had to pretend to be a violin during school semesters. They never did anything for me. In fact, I was considering buying a new fiddle because I didn't like the sound. Reading about strings on the session led me to order a set of Zyex and Helicore. Just a few days more than a month ago, I put on my Zyex strings. I fell in love with the sound. I never thought my fiddle could sound so GOOD! Until a few days ago, my A string started to unravel. Right at the end of the 30 day guarantee...argh! =( But I've also played a lot more since I got the Zyex strings on. Anyhow, I just put on the Helicore set today. They're a little bright and I like them...hmMmm not as much as the Zyex but more than the Dominants. And they're CHEAPER too. =) I am currently using an Olive E. My last Olive E was squeaky but I haven't heard a peep from this one yet. Perhaps the next time I change my strings, I'll try a different E. But to go with the Zyex again and risking another unraveling A is a risk I'm willin to take. Maybe I'll have better luck next time.
Help with Fiddle Strings
Help with Fiddle Strings
I don't play fiddle, but my wife does, and she leaves maintenance of the instrument to me (since I am a long time guitar player, she considers me competent to do things like change strings, tune up, etc). I guess you would call me her roadie.
Anyhow, I have been putting on whatever strings I can buy at the local music stores, which usually only have one option of fiddle strings to chose from (one told me by the way that he didn't sell strings for fiddles, only violins, so you get the idea of what attention they pay to this part of their inventory). We get catalogs from a place called Southwest Strings that has lots of options to choose from, but I am not sure what I should choose. I am sure she would play better with strings that were chosen more wisely. So, after that long wind-up, here is my question for all you fiddle players--what strings do you think are best, and why?
Thanks (and be gentle with me, this is the first time I have started a discussion here),
AL Brown
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Al, you can find some string discussion here:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/5542
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Strings are a very personal thing and depend on what sound you prefer, music you play, and what your fiddle prefers. I used to use Dominants (Thomastik), but now prefer the new Infield Reds. Violin strings can be a bit pricey at your local shop, so I order mine over the internet.
S.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Stewart
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Dominant Strings
Bernadel Rosin
start there, wear them out and see if you like them...then you can decide if you want warmer, brighter, more focused, take the edge off, etc or stick with what you have...but ya gotta start somewhere and Dominant is a fine string..
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Sunnybear
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Well, I use Helicore because they just rock, especially with tuning. So easy especially if you have fine tuners! I'm actually getting myself a set of super flexible you'll be hearing those soon. Hopefully they're good, they definitely sound good on Bob's fiddle! [The Bob that came one night long ago.... The one that lives on a boat I think?]
Cheers,
Armand
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by armandale
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I agree with Sunnybear.
I just happen to have them on my electric Yamaha SV-200
(and I did use Dominants on my old acoustic).
Jim
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Worldfiddler
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Yep, Dominants are a fair place to start. Consider swapping out the E string for something else--even a cheapo Goldbrokat, or a Helicore E. And don't be surprised if the Dominant A unravels on you within a couple weeks.
Prims are equivalent to Dominants, but seem to wear better (and the E's are easier on the ear).
Do NOT put a set of Evah Pirazzi's (by Pirastro) on, whatever you do. She'll never want to play anything else (and they're pricey).
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Whatever you do, don't get a gold E string- a steel wire will work just fine (but experiment with different brands). Gold Es tend to squeak easily when string crossing. I use Zyex strings by D'Addario, and love how they sound on my fiddle. This brand also breaks in really quickly and keeps it's tone for a long time. Thomastik Dominants have long been regarded as a safe bet when unsure, but considering I haven't been trying out new string brands lately, I would go with what Will has to say. And yes, Dominants begin to unravel after a few weeks...
Good luck with the string hunt!
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by violynnsey
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I have not had unravelling problems with Dominants and have been using them for years.
I am currently using Vision strings that I got on sale. They are pretty nice but one string is starting to unravel at the bridge.
I am going to try the Evah's next. Do you use the full set Will, or a different E string?
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I use the full set, Jode, mediums, with the plain E (gold is available, but made no discernible difference, except to my wallet).
I should point out that one reason I stick with the Pirazzis is how they *feel under my fingers.* Soft and silky, but still responsive. I'd probably favor them just for this even if they didn't sound better than other strings.
But they may not be appropriate for people who like to really lean heavily on the bow. And they may not sound good on all fiddles. I have not found them to be as "bright" as some reviewers claim, but they do produce a clearer tone than some strings, and some people interpret this as "less traditional." I suppose my self-taught tone makes up for this.
In the past I've also really liked Helicores, Dominants, Prims, and Obligatos. Zyex and Infeld Reds did not win me over, but I know very good fiddlers who swear by them.
The Pirazzis settle in with a couple of hours of playing, and really hit their stride after 4 to 5 days at full tension. I can usually get 3 to 4 months out of a set (with somewhere around 15 to 20 hours a week of playing) before the tone starts to deteriorate.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I'm wondering, after a quick search online, it looks like Prim makes both a steel core string and a synthetic core string, but I can't find different model names to distinguish between the two. Anyone know about this?
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
". . .gold is available, but made no discernible difference, except to my wallet. . ."
That is its intended function.
Any day now I expect to see strings touting their "molecular alignment" to take advantage of "quantum flux effects" that can't be measured and if you can't hear the difference it's because you're deficient in some way that will make you a social pariah among your musical peers.
Of course they're just repackaged Super Sensitives, but there will be people will swear they hear a remarkable difference, refuse to use anything else from then on, and pay $99 a set for the priveledge.
KFG
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by KFG
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I tried Super Sensitives on my fiddle once, but the tuners kept poking holes in the ribbed latex....
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
For E strings go with Gold Label (pirastro), Goldbrokat, or Westminster...E strings are not expensive, so experiment away...
Dominant E sux...
I have tried the Gold Evah E , and with the Evah set, the gold E was quite nice...different, but nice.
I just prefer simple now, I suppose
If you have trouble with strings unravelling/fraying, you need to have your nut examined ..it may be too thin for the string..if breaking/fraying at the bridge, then your problem lyes there..if somewhere on the string, trim your nails.
I have never had any trouble with any string coming apart that was the strings' fault.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Sunnybear
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Prims are a steel string, and are more equivalent to Helicores, which have a spiral steel core
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Sunnybear
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Sunnybear, it's not that simple. Over the years I eliminated every possible cause of the unwinding A's: nut, fingerboard dressing, hand oils, callouses (I smooth my fingertips before playing each time with an emery board), nails trimmed, etc. Dominant A's are the only ones I've ever had a problem with, and I've heard plenty of other fiddlers say the same thing. Count yourself blessed that they work for you.
Of course I've had a few defective strings from other brands as well, but these were the exception, not the norm. With Dominants, I'd get one A in 20 that could last more than three weeks. Every other string I've tried easily gets me through three months or more of heavy playing. Most go dead before they unwind.
I've played the Prim steel cores and liked them about as well as the Helicores, but I've also seen advertisements for a "chamber music" synth core Prim violin string. But never found any actually for sale.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I should be getting a commission.
Even some well-known fiddlers have seen me ranting about them here and gotten addicted. Shocking to think that some people actually believe what they read....
I do like the Pirazzis. If I couldn't get a set and needed strings right away, I'd probably go with Obligatos, Helicores, Prim, and Dominants, in that order of preference. Which still puts Dominants way ahead of a bunch of other strings.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
btw, Pirastro is GREAT about sending out sample sets of strings...they have sent me a set of Evahs, a set of Oblogaos, a set of Tonicas, a set of Tonicas in 3/4 for my sons violin, and 2 Cello strings for my wifes cello...just Google them and send them an e-mail and see what happens. i did wait a while for them, but tell them what you are after and see what they send...it helps to say something like " I like Dominants, but am having trouble with the A unwinding..what is your comparable and do you have samples to try?" they will probably send Tonicas or such (they are the closest in Pirastros lineup to Dominants)
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Sunnybear
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
My local shop gives me sets to try. They take my feedback and that of other local players and base their orders for inventory in part on that.
Bottom line is that I like the sound and feel and responsiveness of Pirazzis over Dominants anyway, and they last longer (for me), so they end up costing the same or less than "less expensive" strings.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
As far as E's go, the Pirastro No. 1 E is supposed to be real good. I just ordered another set of the Pirazzis with the #1 E substituted, so we'll see how it goes. I'm not too fond of the regular E. Some days it seems to work fine, others it's all squeaky. I've found that I get better results on my fiddle with a wound E anyway.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by meemtp
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
will, your problem with strings could be in your hads ph. I know a guitarrist with this problem, too acid. Just try to play in other instrument. If the strings do the same it is in your hands, not in the fiddle.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by fer
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Is a wound E a little softer in tone? On one of my 2 fiddles the E is disproportionately loud (it has Infield Reds) - I was thinking of trying a wound E. The other fiddle has dominants, and the A is sounding iffy - I think the winding is coming a bit loose. The strings aren't too old. If I replaced it with a different string, what might it be best to try - an Infield red or blue perhaps? I put Helicores on my son's fiddle as I know they won't get replaced for a year - they seem fine - nice and bright and responsive.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by RichardB
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Currently, I’m experimenting with Thomastik Spirocores for the A and D, with an Infeld Red for the G (to give just that little more resonance). The Spirocores are very smooth and responsive to play on. I’d call the tone neutral, which means you hear more of the quality of the fiddle itself. Previously, I’ve used Dominants, Zyex, Helicore, Infeld Reds and Obligato. The last two I’ve liked best out of that group of five. BTW, if you use steel core strings it’s a good idea to have the strings close to the fingerboard (i.e. a low action) it makes fingering that much easier.
BTW (2), I think it was the eminent violinist Maxim Vengerov who says he uses the cheapest E’s available – the sort you pay a dollar for to put on a school fiddle.
Trevor
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I didn't know you could get wound E's. I would have thought they would be too weak to hold the tension because the core wire would be so tiny. Makes me wonder if there are other things I don't know...
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I used to think it was skin acids, but as I said, no other brand of string unravels like the Dominant A. And I've never had this problem on banjo, guitar, or mandolin.
Again, it's a widespread complaint--I've heard many, many fiddlers grouch about Dominant A's unwinding, nearly always around the index finger in first position. Obviously, in trad music, that's a well-used spot, and the string has to take a lot of friction there compared to, say, the low A on the G string. But other brands hold up to it just fine. I think Thomastik needs to improve their A string wrap.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I've been using Corelli Chrystal strings and my "A" string unravels too before the other strings are past their usefulness. It's always the reason I've had to replace them. The last time, I had a used A string which was still in fairly good condition so I was able to get away without changing the whole set.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I think a lot of strings are vastly overpriced considering some of the quality control problems and design issues. I'm sure with some of the technology that's out there, they could develop a string that more responsive, has good tone and longevity than some of the current offerings. Question is, would they want to? Sales would slow if strings were actually reliable for more than two months. (insert conspiracy theory here). Like Will, I'm addicted to Pirazzi's but the cost is ridiculous. Part of that is the EU origin though, which will probably only get worse as the dollar continues to decline vs the Euro.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by meemtp
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Just be glad you don't play upright bass....
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Wholly cow! I just looked up some online prices for Pirazzis. The range was around $45-95 and the $45's are on backorder. My first car didn't cost that much.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
The worst part is that's a good price. I've seen them as high as $65. of course it could be worse. I was looking at prices for pure gut strings for Baroque violin (Not that I have one, but hoping to dabble), those are like $70 at least. I don't know if they last more or less time than synthetics.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by meemtp
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Oops, strike that about the gut strings. Found them for $33.15 on juststrings.com. Now that I'm really off-topic, let's rejoin our regularly scheduled discussion........
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by meemtp
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Well, just so you're prepared, the reason they invented synthetic strings in the first place (Segovia gets credit for this and they appeared first on his guitar) is because they last a godzillion times longer and stay in tune 10 godzillion times longer.
If you're going to start playing gut strings, buy a lot of them.
KFG
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by KFG
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Yeah, but these are for a Baroque violin being used with a Baroque bow and playing at A=415. Shorter neck, lower neck angle, wedged fingerboard. Plus the fingerboard and tailpiece are in maple, with no fine tuner. Wound synthetic strings are anethema to this instrument. Well, actually I have to use a wound G, but that's because I can't find an unwound, plain gut one. The G never got used much in EM and Baroque anyway. Unfortunately, they don't seem to make unwound synthetic gut strings.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by meemtp
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Oh, shorter bass bar too.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by meemtp
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I didn't say don't use 'em, and I adore the tone of the baroque violin, especially if played with a German bow.
I just said be prepared to buy a lot of them and to spend a lot of time tuning is all.
By the way, this whole thread really makes me feel like a bit of a hick for getting my strings by stealing a bit of barbed wire. Yeah, the tone leaves a little to be desired, but they sure do last.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by KFG
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I wish it was a German bow! Just a $100 Italian style jobbie. The only affordable Baroque bow out there.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by meemtp
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Well, I hope in future to do some experiments in German bow making, because I want to do some experiments in using the violin as a fully chordal instrument for vocal accompaniment.
But that's not going to help either one of us right now.
Right now I have books stacked on my tablesaw because I don't have enough shelves and that's the only free space to put them, but I can't make more shelves, because my tablesaw has books stacked on top of it.
Lutherie is right out, and I desperately need to whip up a new banjo as well.
Heeeeeeeeere kitty, kitty!
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by KFG
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Just a historical note …
When I started learning the cello in my early teens almost every string player used gut strings. The A and D were uncovered gut, and the G and C were covered to give them more weight so that a reasonable sound could be got out of them. The A would typically last a few months and them would gradually fray in the bowing area. That was the warning to replace it, otherwise it would probably snap at an embarassing moment. Strangely, it seemd to give its best tone when it was starting to fray. The D would last a little longer than the A - a couple of months perhaps. The G and C, being covered, lasted for ages.
Tuning was always a problem with the gut strings. It would take a new string, especially the A and D, up to three or four days to settle. Some players would keep new strings tuned up on a spare instrument so that they could be transferred to their working instrument when required. The tuning of gut strings was always affected by temperature and humidity, and also just by the mere act of playing. Typically, the A and D would go flat, and the C and G would go sharp. No micrometer adjusters of course - not that they would have been any use with gut strings - so you had to make sure the pegs were always in good condition.
After a few years steel strings started to become available as the world economy perked up after WWII, so I bought a set with micrometer adjusters. I can’t now remember who made those strings, but after gut they were heaven to play, staying in tune and apparently lasting for ever. I think they were solid strings, because they didn’t have the flexibility of spiral core steel strings. I soon found out that the action that was ok for gut was way too high for those steel strings so I brought the bridge down a bit. About that time my cello teacher, a very respected soloist and teacher (who refused to teach for exams or competitions!), started using steel strings – Thomastic Ropecore, if my memory serves correct. He continued using flexible steel strings to the end of his days.
Although I have been using either steel cored strings, alone or mixed with synthetic core, I have in recent years used covered gut strings (Eudoxa) on a second cello I had then – not so much for orchestral playing but because they were rather nice for playing Bach. Currently, on the cello I’m using Larsen A and D (steel-core) with Obligato G and C (synthetic core). The Obligatos are starting to sound a little tired now so after my next concert in a couple of weeks time I’ll replace them, possibly with Thomastic Spirocore.
When my fiddle strings need renewing (which is about every 6 months) I generally try a different set to see how they affect the sound and playing. BTW, cello strings are just too damned expensive to warrant changing them that frequently, except in an emergency!
Trevor
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Yeah, I've been student model cello shopping of late, and pretty quickly figured out that I'd better think of the cello price as a hundred dollars higher than what it says on the tag, just to put a decent set of strings on it, plus a couple hundred to have it setup.
I could save a lot of money if my musical tastes weren't so eclectic, but I probably wouldn't have as much fun.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by KFG
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Helicore do an aluminium wound E but I don't know what difference it makes. There's a useful sound spectrum chart of their products on http://www.daddariobowed.com/BOWProdCat.aspx?ID=4
I may try these again when I buy a new set.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by RichardB
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
As someone who has only ever used Dominants, after Will's comments, I'm suddenly tempted to try something different (i.e. the Pirazzis) for a change, expensive as the trial may be (best price I've found is GBP40.66 for a set, inc VAT & P&P).
Just a couple of questions:(or anyone else that has used them). Will: you said that "they might not be appropriate for people that like to really lean heavily on the bow". I think I'd put myself in that category, particularly in sessions, so I'm obviously wondering why you said that.
Also it seems that they come in three varieties, Soft, Medium & Hard. Any idea what the difference is?
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by rog
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Rog, in answer to your query about soft, medium and hard strings I can do no better than to quote the relevant passage from the very useful Ifshin Violins website, http://www.ifshinviolins.com/features_guide.html#gauge,
“In general a thicker than normal string (a “hard” string) will require more tension in order to bring it up to pitch. This increase in tension will produce more volume and sometimes a fuller sound but with a slower response. A thinner (soft) string requires less tension and will give a faster response, but with less volume and a thinner, slightly more focused sound. What gauge string you choose will depend on the qualities of the particular instrument you are playing. A violin may need a thicker string to give it more "punch" or power, or more fullness of sound. Yet on other instruments, those thick strings will choke the sound and make it unresponsive and dull. On the other hand, a thinner string might help an instrument with a dull, unfocused, fuzzy sound but might sound shrill and thin on others. The majority of string players use the medium gauges.”
I hope this clears up the mystery!
Trevor
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Oops, I've been busy (working!) and didn't realize Rog addressed a question to me.
I've used only the medium gauge Pirazzis, though I'm tempted to order a set of heavy gauge just to see how they'd sound. My fiddle has good volume and projection, but there are times where a bit more punch would be nice (last night's session beseiged by college students). I have tried light gauges in other string brands and never got results that I liked, so I pretty much stick with mediums.
As for leaning hard on the bow...my experience is that lower tension strings can mush out, actually distorting the pitch, when you really bear down on them. The effect is similar to bending a string with a left-hand finger on guitar. While this can be used in musical ways, it's note generally what you're looking for when playing Irish trad.
The Pirazzis feel "stretchy" to me, under my fingers, and under my bow. More so than, say, Helicores. So if you're used to leaning hard on your Helicores, you'll likely be bending notes out of pitch if you switch to Pirazzis.
Of course, you can adjust your bow pressure to compensate for this, and in time you'll find the sweet spot to get maximum volume out of the Pirazzis (or any other synthetic core string) without pushing them into the next county.
I've also seen muddy fiddles come alive after switching from steel core strings (generally higher tension) to synthetic core strings, presumably because the lighter tension allowed the top to resonate better. And then you didn't have to lean on them so much to get the volume you want.
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
P.S. I guess I should add that my own bowing varies in terms of how much pressure I use with the bow, but overall tends toward the lighter side, letting the weight of the bow itself do most of the work. Being a responsive string, the Pirazzis excel at this.
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
And would Dominants be a bit heavier, enabling one to lean on them more?
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I don't know that they're "heavier" in gauge, but they do feel slightly less elastic to me. That's a subjective judgment call (though I have recently played on both Pirazzis and Dominants).
Juststrings.com or Quinn strings had a listing of different fiddle strings, showing the gauges of individual strings, so you could compare gauges straight across, Pirazzi mediums to Dominant mediums. But my gut hunch is that even if the gauges are the same or nearly so, the wrappings and core materials still give a different feel. Put it this way: the Pirazzis feel "soft" compared to most other strings I've played. It's not a huge, glaring difference, but other people I know have commented on it as well, so it is "noticeable." I *like* that softer feel, but some people might not.
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Coupla questions:
Does the different responsiveness mean, for example, that a bow triplet is easier or more natural on synthetic-core strings?
Are steel-core strings a small minority in the ITM world?
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
well, i succumbed to point-and-click temptation, and the new strings should arrive soon... i'll let you know how i get on. i don't think i've *ever* replaced all the strings at once... what with that and a long overdue bow rehair (only about half the hairs left after 8 months or so), i'm really looking forward to the experience!
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by rog
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Good questions. What I mean by "responsive" is that the string is quick to sound, and will produce a fuller tone at low volume (and bow pressure) than a less responsive string would. In general, and within reason, strings under lower tension tend to be more responsive, but also not as loud as strings under higher tension. So a light gauge steel string can be more responsive than, say, a heavy gauge synth core string.
Steel strings have come a long way since their early days, and rope core steel strings are popular among many fiddlers. But the same can be said for synth core strings. What type of string works best on your fiddle for your playing depends much, much more on your fiddle and your bowing and your ear than it does on any given string's popularity.
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Rog, if you do replace the whole set, there are two approaches to this. (Ignore me if you already know all this.)
. Re-setting a soundpost requires a special tool, no small amount of patience, and an educated idea of where the soundpost belongs. A millimeter here or there can make a huge difference in the tone of your fiddle, and the bridge will need to be placed properly as well, so don't mess with this unless you know what you're doing or you can take it to someone who does to put back together what you've taken apart.
Either way, it's a good idea to loosen all of the strings a whole step or two so that one (the E or A is most likely) doesn't break when another string is completely loosened.
The first way is to remove and install just one string at a time. You can swab the fingerboard, graphite the nut, and check your tuning pegs one string at a time.
The second way is to remove all four strings at once to do a more thorough job of cleaning the fingerboard and nut. The risk here is that, without tension on the fiddle top, the soundpost may move or even fall down. The bridge will certainly fall down (unless you've never cleaned the rosin off the top and it's glued in place
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I’m sure Will won’t mind if I add to his last post. If a soundpost falls over or shifts when the strings are let down that’s usually a sign the thing is too loose – it has probably shrunk with time – and needs to be replaced.
If you need to take all the strings off, as you would if you were to replace the tailpiece or do something to the bridge, and you don’t want to take risks with the soundpost, the safest thing to do is to immobilise the fiddle flat while you’re doing the job and not to jolt it.
When I replaced a tailpiece a while ago I first removed the chinrest, placed the fiddle in its case, let the strings and bridge down as described by Will and took the string ends out of the old tailpiece. Following that, I gently eased the old tailpiece over the button, without moving the fiddle, and put the new one on the same way. Then I reversed the other steps. Make sure you gradually bring the strings up to pitch (not above it – that’s only too easy to do with the E, and that string won’t take it), and at a fairly late stage in the process make sure the bridge is in the right place, vertical and aligned with the fingerboard. You will of course have already lubricated the bridge and nut grooves with pencil lead.
Before you start, if you’re happy with the placement of the bridge, it’s a good idea to mark the position of the bridge. I do this with tiny bits of Post-It paper on the belly at the corners of the bridge; the paper easily removeable and doesn’t leave marks on the varnish.
Trevor
# Posted on January 28th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Thanks to all for the advice you have provided. Judging from other discussion strings about fiddle topics, I knew this would draw some responses!
Now I just have to choose between all the options presented.
Thanks,
AL Brown
# Posted on January 28th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I put on my first set of Evah Pirazzi's last Friday, before a recording session on Saturday. (It was the old...these strings are too old and won't hold their tuning so I will just deal with the potential stretching of the new strings.)
I was recording with a group, so did not get to evaluate them too closely, however, here are my initial thoughts:
My first reaction was that the E string really sang out and had a lovely tone. This stayed pretty consistent and I was quite pleased with that fact. The other strings seemed to give me more volume too. The tone was different from my usual Dominants, but I will have to do further testing in that area.
The strings did not feel too soft to me. I was a little afraid of Will's comment that a hard bow might bend the note a little. I dug in at times, and did not notice a change. Generally, my bow is pretty light, but I do dig in when I cannot hear myself very well.
Overall, I am fairly impressed. I will get some house time with the strings this weekend and give them the dining room test. Also, perhaps the house party test. And maybe the session test tonight!
In conclusion, I would like to see how they behave over the course of their lifespan, and what happens to tone and volume. If I have other observations over the next couple of weeks, I might post if anyone is interested.
# Posted on February 2nd 2005 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Do. I love the things, myself. Hope you're another convert of Will's, because they cost enough that I want to know my dismay at getting addicted to the things at such high cost is shared! ;)
# Posted on February 2nd 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Jode, I would be interested in your further observations.
# Posted on February 3rd 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
After a few weeks of playing the Evah's, they are still playing well. One thing I have noted is that they may in fact be softer than other strings. The benefit here is that my bowed triplets seem easier to play and crisper. I like that!
There has been a ghosty/scratchiness to them though, kind of like that rasp of new strings. I noticed this the first time when I was trying out my friend's bows. I need to look into this further, as my fiddle might just have opened up due to dryness/humidity issues. I am not sure if it is the strings or my fiddle.
The other thing that I like about them is the volume or sound projection. They do make my fiddle a touch louder, and since it is a fairly quiet fiddle.
So, Zina, I'm with you so far. Usually, it takes me some time before I come to a full decision. But, I will keep on minding them and will almost certainly buy another set when these are done. If I continue to get that scratchy sound, and it is not my fiddle opening, then I will probably buy a set of Dominants too and compare the two.
# Posted on February 23rd 2005 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Jode, when I started using Pirazzis, I also switched to a lighter rosin, from Hill dark to Millant Deroux. It's not as tacky and seems to give a smoother bow sound. But I've since switched back to the Hill dark for a bit more traction in sessions.
I'm also currently playing on a set of Prims just for a change of pace. I like them a lot (especially for $17 USD!), though I'll go back to the Pirazzis as soon as these give out.
My last set of Pirazzis lasted 6 months (of daily playing) before their tone started to mush out. And I love how they feel under my fingers (the Prims feel rough by comparison, but I like them better than Helicores).
Keep us posted as the experiment continues....
# Posted on February 23rd 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Back again on the Ev Pirazzi report.
After playing them pretty hard, what with two recording sessions, lots of practice, and a good few "green season" gigs, the Pirazzi's seemed to break down.
I was initally very pleased with the E string, but that was the first to go wobbly on me. It was really difficult to keep in tune at the end. In fact, I took it off there last week to stabilize the tuning for another recording session.
After I swapped out the E, I was happier with the overall sound. But then I was out at the session last night and the G string was giving me trouble, which is odd.
So here I am again, just two months later, and I am wondering whether I should change my strings again for the big gig this weekend.
I did really like the vibrance of the Pirazzis. They projected well. But I am unhappy with their lifespan. I bought a set of Helicores and may also try Prims. But I won't give up on the Pirazzis. It is certainly useful to know that you can slap them on and get a great sound quickly out of them. That's better than the Dominants that take days to break in.
# Posted on March 31st 2005 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Interesting. I've had the same trouble, but not within two months. More like four months or more. Still, that's what convinced me to try the Prims, and they have been extremely stable. I gotta say, for $17, these are great strings. I may try Helicores again just to compare them to the Prims.
# Posted on March 31st 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Hmmm. usually my Evahs have lasted a good 5 to 6 months. This set is nearly blown, they went on just before St. Pat's. Maybe it has something to do with trekking back and forth between California and Colorado? Or maybe the production run?
# Posted on March 31st 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
One person's experiement with strings continues: after taking the Pirazzis off, I tried the Prims on Will's suggestion, and after talking to Chris Quinn at Quinn Violins. I tried them for a short while. Chris said they take a bit to break in. However, they never seemed to break in on my fiddle. Again, there was a scatchiness to them, and no longer ghostly. The A string was especially raspy and I had to give up on them.
Just this last Saturday, I put on a three-string set of Helicores. There was an immediate improvement of the tone. We did another recording session last night, so I had an opportunity to listen to them closely. They are certainly not as bright as the Evah's, but the tone really smoothed out. Gone was any trace of raspiness. I thought that the A and D strings were especially nice, but will give the G string time to come around. I did not try the E string as I had a Goldbrokat on and it was in good shape.
I will probably stick with these for a little while, and see how they do as far as life-span. If the G string doesn't improve, I might swap that out.
An interim conclusion: since my fiddle tends to the high end, I should look for strings with a mellower tone.
Will and Zina, perhaps you both have fiddles with a nicer low end and like the "brightness"? I will be interested to see how the Helicore's treat you Will, if you try them.
# Posted on May 3rd 2005 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Yes, my new fiddle has a very nice low end, and also I like my fiddle sound, overall, more bright than the dark (and to my ear, more muffled) tones that are more prevalent among Irish fiddles. This fiddle really suits me, I'm adoring it even if I'm still having problems not overplaying it, and the Evahs so far are still the best fit I've found. I'm thinking of trying out a set of Prims on them, more or less out a spirit of inquiry.
Like you, recently I've found that the E strings give out much quicker than the rest of the set, and I've also had some problems with the G strings, and once with the D.
# Posted on May 3rd 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
As I suspected. I like a bright sound too, but the Evah's and especially the Prims gave me too much of a buzz, or raspy sound on my fiddle. Perhaps I could do what others have suggested and write to Pirastro, tell them my story, and hope they will send me some samples.
Zina, I think you and Will should get a sponsorship deal going with Pirastro for the Evah's. Maybe you could get an artist to draw up your likeness for the cover.
# Posted on May 3rd 2005 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
Nearly a year later, I finally tried some Tonicas. I think that I would have to change my playing style in order to get the best out of these strings. They are too soft and unresponsive for the way I like to play. I guess I push down hard with the bow. But when I ease off I don't like what it does to my bowing style. I'd say that will end my experiments with strings. I think I will settle into Heliocores. It seems to be a good match for my fiddle, bow and style.
# Posted on May 12th 2006 by Jode
Re: Help with Fiddle Strings
I used to use Dominants back in the day when my fiddle had to pretend to be a violin during school semesters. They never did anything for me. In fact, I was considering buying a new fiddle because I didn't like the sound. Reading about strings on the session led me to order a set of Zyex and Helicore. Just a few days more than a month ago, I put on my Zyex strings. I fell in love with the sound. I never thought my fiddle could sound so GOOD! Until a few days ago, my A string started to unravel. Right at the end of the 30 day guarantee...argh! =( But I've also played a lot more since I got the Zyex strings on. Anyhow, I just put on the Helicore set today. They're a little bright and I like them...hmMmm not as much as the Zyex but more than the Dominants. And they're CHEAPER too. =) I am currently using an Olive E. My last Olive E was squeaky but I haven't heard a peep from this one yet. Perhaps the next time I change my strings, I'll try a different E. But to go with the Zyex again and risking another unraveling A is a risk I'm willin to take. Maybe I'll have better luck next time.
# Posted on May 24th 2006 by *Misha*