This is probably on the borderline of what should be discussed on this site, but hopefully there are some of you out there to give some advice..
Mostly beeing a sessioneer attending irish sessions I've been asked to play some schottish dances at a wedding about a month from now. We'll bring with us a caller to instruct the dances. The Caller has kindly provided me with a CD of the desired dances, namely The Eightsome Reel and Strip The Willow, The Gay Gordon, and The Dashing White Sergeant
I was prepared to crash-learn the sets, but find myself somewhat perplexed to find that the the Eightsome Reel was a medley of 10 tunes where only one was familiar (Devil's Dream) on the setting I got hold of.
Anyone out there who know of set combinations that are easily adaptable for a fiddler for the ones mentioned
Would I be better off constructing sets from familiar tunes?
Yeah, for the medley tunes for sure use ones you know. In Scottish it is usual, at least in this day and age, to end on the tune you started with, and many times that tune is associated with that dance. When I get home this eve I'll see what I can find about the "lead" (pronounced "leed" :>) ) tune for Eightsome reel, or at least point you in the direction of the right web site. There might be someone, if the gifts are regular Scottish dancers, who will be miffed that you don't use "their" favorite set, but. . .better the tunes you know played well than the ones you don't played less well, at least in my opinion.
Strip the Willow is - usually? often? used to be? - danced with a running step to a slip jig, but you can use whatever was on the CD since that's what your caller is used to.
Even Muriel Johnstone, who is the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society's music maven, told us that the tunes were up to the musicians, particularly if they were given the music very late. So you can quote from the top if you get any static -
Been there Halldoor when as an Irish céilí band we were asked to do a Robbie Burns night. A couple of months before the dance we were supplied with a list which included the Dashing White Sergeant, the Petronella, Strip the Willow, the Gay Gordons, the Valeta, the St Bernard waltze not to mention Auld Lang's Syne plus others I've now forgotten. Panic immediately set in and a trip to the library for music was the next move. We soon found that some of these dances had a set tune (Dashing White Sergeant and Petronella are polka like although the latter has some distinctive stacatto beats) and once you'd play this you could continue with normal polkas played in a similar manner. As for the Gay Gordons, we found that Scotland the Brave followed by the Athole Gathering and Denis Murphy's Slide, then back to the first tune really got them going! For the slow dances we substituted the Irish waltzes with Scottish ones such as the Northern Lights of Old Aberdeen, The River Clyde, The Road to Dundee and similar tunes. Overall it went quite well apart from complaints from one of the purists about the sequence of verses and choruses in Auld Lang's Syne. It couldn't have been too bad as we were booked for the gig for another two successive years. One tip is try and get hold of a tape (one of the organisers could probably get this for you quite easily) of some of the music as it makes it much easier to get used to the phrasing for tunes such as Petronella or the St. Bernard waltze. There's no doubt but that you'll enjoy the night as the dancers generally tend to be very enthusiastic. Our only problem was the long wait to get started (too much drinking time!) due to the interminable "after-dinner" speeches and the various homages to the haggis - it has to be well toasted!
I remember accompanying an eightsome reel for the first time with the Ceili(dh) band I play with. For some reason, we decided on playing just three tunes, the one in the middle being repeated as many times as necessary to make up the measures. So, we played The Star of Munster about eight times in a row. The Star of Munster, many will agree, is quite a 'dark' tune, and given the band format, there was little scope for variaton, so after a few times round I was desperate to escape into another tune. Finally we emerged into the dazzling brightness of The Humours of Tulla.
The site I checked listed Deil Among the Tailors as the lead tune for Eightsome Reel, so if you know that it might be good in the medley. But really, your own medley will work, and it doesn't have to have 10 tunes, as Mountain Goat pointed out. Bannerman had a great set for Gay Gordon's. And some nice waltzes - I also found that Westering Home, Ae Fond Kiss, and I Belong to Glasgow brought tears to their eyes - I love schmaltzy waltzes.
I play in a scottish ceilidh band every weekend and basically find that unless you are playing for real hardcore scottish country dancers, then you can use whatever tunes you like. In the country dance field there are certain tunes associated with certain dances and you can find these in the books which are published by the scottish country dance assoc. otherwise, kerr's merry melodies is a good place to start. the bog standard tunes for an eightsome would be speed the plough x 5 with the first 8 bars again, then the wind that shakes the barley x 3, mrs mcleod x 3, fairy dance x 3, de'il amaing the tailors x 3, clean pea strae x 3, mason's apron x 3 then soldier's joy x 5 to finish. that should give you enough length for the dancers to finish the dance (if they do it right). most of the times i try this dance at a ceilidh everyone ends up in a heap on the floor and just has a laugh so it doesn't really matter how long it lasts. basically use 2/4 marches like the headlands/barren rocks of aden for a gay gordons, hornpipes, strathspeys or 2/4 pipe marches for canadian barn dances, 6/8 pipe marches for military 2steps, jigs for strip the willow, reels for dashing white sergeant, and waltzes for waltzes and you won't go far wrong. Don't worry tho. most crowds just like the music to be fun and in tempo and played well and don't really mind what tunes you play as long as the rhythm is easy to dance to.
Hi Halldor -
I've played in Scottish ceilidh bands for 20years or so, and here's an easy way to do an eightsome reel, and have the right number of bars.
(1)Play your first 32 bar reel once through, plus an extra 8 bars. (So AAABB or ABABA - or whatever suits the tune to total 40 bars.) This does for the bit at the beginning of the dance.
(2) Now you're into the body of the dance, where each of the dancers has their "turn" Each of these turns lasts for 48 bars, but that's an awkward number, so the easy solution is this: Take 4 32 bar reels and play them each 3 times. So the first reels will do for the 1st and 2nd dancer, the next for the 3rd and 4th, etc. (Your caller may think it's a bit crude that each dancer doesn't get their "own" tune, but the dancers are unlikely to care unless they're into Royal Scottish Country Dancing)
(3) Finish off with your original 40 bars again.
It's true that sometimes the dancers don't do the dance by the book, so it won't fit anyway, but with a caller it probably will...
I apologise if this is too much information! But I know how mysterious these thing can seem - just trying to help.
The Dashing White Sgt - the main tune lasts for 32 bars (reel) - play that a couple of times and follow it with some other 32 bar reels that seem to you to fit the same style.
Strip the Willow - play jigs (fast!) until all the couples have had one or two turns. (For each couple in a 4 couple set to have two turns, you will need about 32 bars x 14.
The Gay Gordons is danced to marches - 2/4 or 6/8 - doesn't matter. Just need to be divisible by 16 bars. Play until just before they start to look fed up!
We usually follow the Dashing WS with a tune called The Ton. We're not a scottish ceilidh band but we usually get a gig on Burns Night and get away with it - this year at Wofson College, Oxford Uni.
We use another easy way to count the Eightsome - we have 10 tunes arranged across 2 pages with bold text AABBB by the first and last tunes, and AABBAB as a reminder for the rest.
Optionally, you can finish with the original tune, and if you find 8 tunes in the middle too much, play 4 tunes twice.
Watch for the circle (grand chain) at the end to ensure you finish with the dancers.
Top Tip - Find out who is paying you and watch their set (The most important set in the room). Make sure you finish with them!!
One question regarding the eightsome reel - The way I count bars I get about 520 bars in FI's case (assuming 32 Bar reels) and in Kris Case 464 bars. What 's right?
oops - i would go with kris' version. i reckon i got a bit carried away there. sorry. also use 6/8 jigs for a strip the willow and it doesn't matter what order you do them in at all. just make it fast and fun and you will be fine.
Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
This is probably on the borderline of what should be discussed on this site, but hopefully there are some of you out there to give some advice..
Mostly beeing a sessioneer attending irish sessions I've been asked to play some schottish dances at a wedding about a month from now. We'll bring with us a caller to instruct the dances. The Caller has kindly provided me with a CD of the desired dances, namely The Eightsome Reel and Strip The Willow, The Gay Gordon, and The Dashing White Sergeant
I was prepared to crash-learn the sets, but find myself somewhat perplexed to find that the the Eightsome Reel was a medley of 10 tunes where only one was familiar (Devil's Dream) on the setting I got hold of.
Anyone out there who know of set combinations that are easily adaptable for a fiddler for the ones mentioned
Would I be better off constructing sets from familiar tunes?
# Posted on January 6th 2005 by FiddleTramp
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
Yeah, for the medley tunes for sure use ones you know. In Scottish it is usual, at least in this day and age, to end on the tune you started with, and many times that tune is associated with that dance. When I get home this eve I'll see what I can find about the "lead" (pronounced "leed" :>) ) tune for Eightsome reel, or at least point you in the direction of the right web site. There might be someone, if the gifts are regular Scottish dancers, who will be miffed that you don't use "their" favorite set, but. . .better the tunes you know played well than the ones you don't played less well, at least in my opinion.
Strip the Willow is - usually? often? used to be? - danced with a running step to a slip jig, but you can use whatever was on the CD since that's what your caller is used to.
Even Muriel Johnstone, who is the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society's music maven, told us that the tunes were up to the musicians, particularly if they were given the music very late. So you can quote from the top if you get any static -
# Posted on January 6th 2005 by cj
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
Been there Halldoor when as an Irish céilí band we were asked to do a Robbie Burns night. A couple of months before the dance we were supplied with a list which included the Dashing White Sergeant, the Petronella, Strip the Willow, the Gay Gordons, the Valeta, the St Bernard waltze not to mention Auld Lang's Syne plus others I've now forgotten. Panic immediately set in and a trip to the library for music was the next move. We soon found that some of these dances had a set tune (Dashing White Sergeant and Petronella are polka like although the latter has some distinctive stacatto beats) and once you'd play this you could continue with normal polkas played in a similar manner. As for the Gay Gordons, we found that Scotland the Brave followed by the Athole Gathering and Denis Murphy's Slide, then back to the first tune really got them going! For the slow dances we substituted the Irish waltzes with Scottish ones such as the Northern Lights of Old Aberdeen, The River Clyde, The Road to Dundee and similar tunes. Overall it went quite well apart from complaints from one of the purists about the sequence of verses and choruses in Auld Lang's Syne. It couldn't have been too bad as we were booked for the gig for another two successive years. One tip is try and get hold of a tape (one of the organisers could probably get this for you quite easily) of some of the music as it makes it much easier to get used to the phrasing for tunes such as Petronella or the St. Bernard waltze. There's no doubt but that you'll enjoy the night as the dancers generally tend to be very enthusiastic. Our only problem was the long wait to get started (too much drinking time!) due to the interminable "after-dinner" speeches and the various homages to the haggis - it has to be well toasted!
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by Bannerman
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
I remember accompanying an eightsome reel for the first time with the Ceili(dh) band I play with. For some reason, we decided on playing just three tunes, the one in the middle being repeated as many times as necessary to make up the measures. So, we played The Star of Munster about eight times in a row. The Star of Munster, many will agree, is quite a 'dark' tune, and given the band format, there was little scope for variaton, so after a few times round I was desperate to escape into another tune. Finally we emerged into the dazzling brightness of The Humours of Tulla.
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
I don't recommend the above.
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
The site I checked listed Deil Among the Tailors as the lead tune for Eightsome Reel, so if you know that it might be good in the medley. But really, your own medley will work, and it doesn't have to have 10 tunes, as Mountain Goat pointed out. Bannerman had a great set for Gay Gordon's. And some nice waltzes - I also found that Westering Home, Ae Fond Kiss, and I Belong to Glasgow brought tears to their eyes - I love schmaltzy waltzes.
Have fun -
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by cj
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
I play in a scottish ceilidh band every weekend and basically find that unless you are playing for real hardcore scottish country dancers, then you can use whatever tunes you like. In the country dance field there are certain tunes associated with certain dances and you can find these in the books which are published by the scottish country dance assoc. otherwise, kerr's merry melodies is a good place to start. the bog standard tunes for an eightsome would be speed the plough x 5 with the first 8 bars again, then the wind that shakes the barley x 3, mrs mcleod x 3, fairy dance x 3, de'il amaing the tailors x 3, clean pea strae x 3, mason's apron x 3 then soldier's joy x 5 to finish. that should give you enough length for the dancers to finish the dance (if they do it right). most of the times i try this dance at a ceilidh everyone ends up in a heap on the floor and just has a laugh so it doesn't really matter how long it lasts. basically use 2/4 marches like the headlands/barren rocks of aden for a gay gordons, hornpipes, strathspeys or 2/4 pipe marches for canadian barn dances, 6/8 pipe marches for military 2steps, jigs for strip the willow, reels for dashing white sergeant, and waltzes for waltzes and you won't go far wrong. Don't worry tho. most crowds just like the music to be fun and in tempo and played well and don't really mind what tunes you play as long as the rhythm is easy to dance to.
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by Fionafiddler
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
Hi Halldor -
I've played in Scottish ceilidh bands for 20years or so, and here's an easy way to do an eightsome reel, and have the right number of bars.
(1)Play your first 32 bar reel once through, plus an extra 8 bars. (So AAABB or ABABA - or whatever suits the tune to total 40 bars.) This does for the bit at the beginning of the dance.
(2) Now you're into the body of the dance, where each of the dancers has their "turn" Each of these turns lasts for 48 bars, but that's an awkward number, so the easy solution is this: Take 4 32 bar reels and play them each 3 times. So the first reels will do for the 1st and 2nd dancer, the next for the 3rd and 4th, etc. (Your caller may think it's a bit crude that each dancer doesn't get their "own" tune, but the dancers are unlikely to care unless they're into Royal Scottish Country Dancing)
(3) Finish off with your original 40 bars again.
It's true that sometimes the dancers don't do the dance by the book, so it won't fit anyway, but with a caller it probably will...
I apologise if this is too much information! But I know how mysterious these thing can seem - just trying to help.
The Dashing White Sgt - the main tune lasts for 32 bars (reel) - play that a couple of times and follow it with some other 32 bar reels that seem to you to fit the same style.
Strip the Willow - play jigs (fast!) until all the couples have had one or two turns. (For each couple in a 4 couple set to have two turns, you will need about 32 bars x 14.
The Gay Gordons is danced to marches - 2/4 or 6/8 - doesn't matter. Just need to be divisible by 16 bars. Play until just before they start to look fed up!
Have fun.
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by kris
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
We usually follow the Dashing WS with a tune called The Ton. We're not a scottish ceilidh band but we usually get a gig on Burns Night and get away with it - this year at Wofson College, Oxford Uni.
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by Tarrantella
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
We use another easy way to count the Eightsome - we have 10 tunes arranged across 2 pages with bold text AABBB by the first and last tunes, and AABBAB as a reminder for the rest.
Optionally, you can finish with the original tune, and if you find 8 tunes in the middle too much, play 4 tunes twice.
Watch for the circle (grand chain) at the end to ensure you finish with the dancers.
Top Tip - Find out who is paying you and watch their set (The most important set in the room). Make sure you finish with them!!
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
Thanks for all the good advice - this was good news for handling The Eightsome Reel and the Gay Gordon.
As far as The Dashing White Sergeant I've read that basically any 32 Reel medley should do. Is this right?
As far as Strip the Willow is concerned jigs are requiered, but are they 6/8tsl or 9/8ths, and in which order?
Thanks again for the information provided sofar...
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by FiddleTramp
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
One question regarding the eightsome reel - The way I count bars I get about 520 bars in FI's case (assuming 32 Bar reels) and in Kris Case 464 bars. What 's right?
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by FiddleTramp
Re: Playing for a Schottish ceilidh
oops - i would go with kris' version. i reckon i got a bit carried away there. sorry. also use 6/8 jigs for a strip the willow and it doesn't matter what order you do them in at all. just make it fast and fun and you will be fine.
# Posted on January 9th 2005 by Fionafiddler