No this is not about where's your session.
This has grown out of a comment I made on another thread - improziv's introduction. That was about seat position for "sonic advantage" purposes. This is to widen that subject in a thread of it's own.
When you arrive at a session do you spend time working out where you might sit?
Who do you avoid/ what instruments?
How do you squeeze in to a session as a late-comer?
Would you be happy to be the first to sit down and risk all-comers sitting next to you or do you have a strategy for manipulating who will come and sit next to you?
Which side is best to sit on for flute (obvious), accordion, fiddle, pipes or concertina?
Do other guitarists like to sit next to a good bodhran player or do they avoid the percussives? Likewise would guitarists sit next to a Zouk accompanist or head for the other side of the session?
Where do you like to put your instrument case?
Can you play sitting on a bench seat or prefer a chair?
This thread can become as big as you like or maybe you would all prefer to hide your little secrets.
Personally I sit close to someone I know so that I can have a good chat and a laugh between tunes. I also make sure I don't sit between two melody players who are sparking off each other but next to them is great. I hate benches or chairs with arms.
Bring it on ♪♫♪♫
Chris Smith had a nice little essay about "corner loading," an acoustic phenomenon where the walls and ceiling of a corner bounce your sound back at you, making it a good place to sit when playing in a noisy pub. We're looking at adding a few hanging ceiling panels in our high-walled taproom, to help us hear ourselves.
I'll sit next to just about any instrument, as long as it's not being throttled for all the volume it can possibly produce. And strangers at sessions are just friends I haven't met yet.
Er, let me adjust my rose-colored glasses. One thing I'm careful about is players who want their instrument higher than the rest--perched on a high bar stool, or players who stand. The sound almost always ends up right at ear level for the rest of us, and if you happen to be right next to it, it can be deafening.
Upholstered bench seats are common in the US, but not my favorite seating. I sit on one at my weekly sesh because it's what's in the corner, and I'm one of the ringleaders, so everyone wants me to sit near the corner where they can hear me.
I also avoid doors (too cold in winter, too hot in summer, and proximity to a table is nice for a place to hold the glass and the flute.
I try not to sit on the bass side of boxes as I land up being unable to hear the tune.
If there's a piano accordian I like to be able to see what they're doing because if I don't know a tune I can pick it up.
Being a fiddle player, I need enough room to bow without taking peoples eyes out! I also don't like being trapped in corners.
That's just the start....if going to a new session, you have to wait to make sure you don't tread on anyones toes by taking "their seat" etc
Something as simple as sitting in a session can be an absolute minefield of dithering and decisions!!
Never thought about corner loading ... I usually try to sit in a corner to have room to launch PA and anglo and english concertinas (one at a time). Must be why it's so noisy in my corner!.
Generally: if you sit yourself in a place where people have to walk through to reach the bar/the bog/go for a cigarette, then don't bitch about being disturbed by people who need to get past.
Specifically in our pub: Dont sit right at the end of a bench, cos when everyone else gets off it tips up and you fall a*se first onto the floor. Dont sit in the window cos its cold. And dont sit on the old settle on the left of the door cos it is really uncomfortable. But that's only in our pub.
Will says "strangers at sessions are just friends I haven't met yet".
An admirable sentiment, If only it were true. Strangers at sessions are sometimes found to be total dungbrains who spoil something which could have been really pleasant.
positioning is an important issue for our session. Being the only non playing singer I tend to get shunted arround to enable individual musicians to spark off each other. The skill is to do this and still remain close enough to talk to the people who's company you really enjoy but far away from the prat who talks through the solos stuff. while it still looking as if you are moving simply for the benefit of the musicians.
We tend to sit where ever, and move around a lot too. Sometimes I end up in the same seat for most of the session...but other times, if I get up to get a drink, someone sits down in my chair and I sit elsewhere...and we start to play musical chairs. It's a lot of fun because you get to chat with a variety of people. And at the larger session I go to, there can be a LOT of people. The smaller session we have no real organization. I usually sit across from the banjo player (so I can hear myself! lol) and next to one of the fiddlers, sometimes next to the bodhran player (who also plays guitar).
So erm...organization? Yeah...none really! It's a fun free for all!
By its very nature this thread is about not wanting to sit next to too-loud instruments, novice players, bodhrans & spoons, so I'm surprised it has taken so long to go where it is going....
Well, as a bodhran player, I guess I can't answer Mr Gill's question, given that I am the percussion . . .
But for the record, at my regular session I sit between the banjo and the bass, opposite the guitar, away from the corner of the room, where the flutes tend to congregate. The banjo leads a lot of the tunes. If I'm just dropping in on a session I'm not too familiar with, I'll gravitate towards the guitarist or vice versa - seems to be the accepted norm.
I like to sit on the "right" side (i.e. the left-hand side) of left-handed banjo/madolin/guitar/zouk players for fairly obvious reasons. I don't know about the rest of you but there seems to be rather a lot of left-handed fret players in my area. At one session three out of the six fret-players there were left-handed.
On the few occasions when I arrive late at a crowded session I perforce have to play standing up for a few minutes (sorry, Will!) until an empty seat materialises, which they tend to do anyway as the evening wears on. I always play standing up at home, but I fully appreciate Will's point about standing at sessions, and try to avoid it.
I like to sit fairly close to, or at any rate within easy sight of, a good fiddle player, in the hope that some sort of cerebral osmosis will work . I try to avoid sitting next to guitars (mandolins are ok) or with a bodhrán to my immediate right. What I don't do is being on or near the main punter route to and from the toilets, but I also like to try and have an easy route to and from the bar. I always have my fiddle case within arm's reach, so that I can put the fiddle away safe when I go to the toilet or bar, - either by my feet or on a window ledge behind me. A table, or said window ledge, is essential support means for the glass of beer. I certainly don't like putting the glass on the floor, where I'll forget it and kick it over.
Trevor
A percussionist should never have to sit next to another percussionist . . . if there's more than one percussionist, there's too many. As we debated in an earlier thread, you don't want another guy going 'thumpity-click' while you're trying to go 'clickety-thump'.
We make all our cr@p players sit on the edge of the patio/balcony thing, which doesn't have a railing. So that when we've had enough to drink for this to be funny, all it takes is a nudge and WHOA! Laughter all round! It's sort of an incentive to not be sh!te.
ah... imagine if that were true. Hee hee. Sorry. Having a surreal day.
I generally arrive late and there's not much choice. So it's usually in the path of the bog-visitors.
If I do have a choice, I'll sit beside any of the regulars in our session - they're all good guys and girls. Very, very rarely, there'll be a visitor with a "special" approach to the music that I'd rather not listen to too closely. However, we're Canadians, so I wouldn't dream of moving lest I offend anyone.
Not too close to similar instruments. No two whistles (or any other instrument) are ever entirely in tune and the pulsing hurts. I like to avoid the base end of the boxes as well if possible, however, at my local session, there is only a small entrace so you have to sit as far in and round as you can when you get there so others can squeeze in.
I also like to be opposite strange drummers so I can see what they are up to.
Q has it right. In The White Horse I use to (like a ponce) postion myself so the guitar would reflect off the back wall until I realised that Orson had the right idea sitting on a high stool by the bar in the corner with all flanks covered. I think after a while you work out that that the best position is near a mate, with access to the bar & toilets. Also one where you can bunk off to talk to the great musicians at the bar who have the good taste not to play all the time.
The session I go to is in the round, in someone's living room, so my preferred choice of seats is A) away from the cold window and B) in an armless chair so I don't have to worry about the frog of my bow. Other than that, it's a toss-up.
And I don't mind sitting by the percussion --- but he's a friend of mine. Plus he actually plays well. *grin*
Oww! now I really do feel it's time to say "we've discussed this before....yadeyadeya", because I was politely letting it roll for hte present incumbents, so here goes:
I don't agree that you can't have more than one 'percussinist'. I attended a session in Belfast at the Hercules Bar. The session took place around an extremely long, say 14-16' long, table.
There were two bodhran players. Their instruments had different but complementary tones, and their styles meshed perfectly. Obviously they were regulars, each assigned to keep his half of this very long table in time with the other. It worked! I would loved to have sat between them.
I read through Discussion #2163 and I am sorry for posting a discussion with some similarity Rab, but mine was a little more specifically about the musical chairs and not about where you actually position the session in the pub or whatever. Anyway as it has been said before new ideas can come from rediscussing old topics.
BUT: I do think that it is great if people post the link to other similar discussions that they find/remember - thanks. I for one forget more than I remember.
That reminds me of these two old (60-ish) guys we used to meet out on the x-country ski trails. They'd just be skiing along, chatting or whatever, not fast but never slowing down. All the younger folks would be passing them, but at the end of the day the old guys would be still going, still having a good time after everybody else had gone home tired.
I can't deal with sitting too close to the guitar folks - it just makes it hard to hear --its a wall of sound thing- though I like to play off the guitar player if that person is good. Mostly I'm doing my best to floow the person that called the tune and keep everyone in tempo- I will often try to sit next to the best melody player -- because I like to learn up close and play as tightly as I can with that person. I also just like the fiddle best.
Session positioning
Session positioning
No this is not about where's your session.
This has grown out of a comment I made on another thread - improziv's introduction. That was about seat position for "sonic advantage" purposes. This is to widen that subject in a thread of it's own.
When you arrive at a session do you spend time working out where you might sit?
Who do you avoid/ what instruments?
How do you squeeze in to a session as a late-comer?
Would you be happy to be the first to sit down and risk all-comers sitting next to you or do you have a strategy for manipulating who will come and sit next to you?
Which side is best to sit on for flute (obvious), accordion, fiddle, pipes or concertina?
Do other guitarists like to sit next to a good bodhran player or do they avoid the percussives? Likewise would guitarists sit next to a Zouk accompanist or head for the other side of the session?
Where do you like to put your instrument case?
Can you play sitting on a bench seat or prefer a chair?
This thread can become as big as you like or maybe you would all prefer to hide your little secrets.
Personally I sit close to someone I know so that I can have a good chat and a laugh between tunes. I also make sure I don't sit between two melody players who are sparking off each other but next to them is great. I hate benches or chairs with arms.
Bring it on ♪♫♪♫
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Donough
Re: Session positioning
Chris Smith had a nice little essay about "corner loading," an acoustic phenomenon where the walls and ceiling of a corner bounce your sound back at you, making it a good place to sit when playing in a noisy pub. We're looking at adding a few hanging ceiling panels in our high-walled taproom, to help us hear ourselves.
I'll sit next to just about any instrument, as long as it's not being throttled for all the volume it can possibly produce. And strangers at sessions are just friends I haven't met yet.
Er, let me adjust my rose-colored glasses. One thing I'm careful about is players who want their instrument higher than the rest--perched on a high bar stool, or players who stand. The sound almost always ends up right at ear level for the rest of us, and if you happen to be right next to it, it can be deafening.
Upholstered bench seats are common in the US, but not my favorite seating. I sit on one at my weekly sesh because it's what's in the corner, and I'm one of the ringleaders, so everyone wants me to sit near the corner where they can hear me.
I also avoid doors (too cold in winter, too hot in summer, and proximity to a table is nice for a place to hold the glass and the flute.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Session positioning
As long as the barman can see/hear me when I snap my fingers, I don't mind.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Q
Re: Session positioning
I try not to sit on the bass side of boxes as I land up being unable to hear the tune.
If there's a piano accordian I like to be able to see what they're doing because if I don't know a tune I can pick it up.
Being a fiddle player, I need enough room to bow without taking peoples eyes out! I also don't like being trapped in corners.
That's just the start....if going to a new session, you have to wait to make sure you don't tread on anyones toes by taking "their seat" etc
Something as simple as sitting in a session can be an absolute minefield of dithering and decisions!!
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Tarrantella
Re: Session positioning
Away from the most rabid spoon players, and preferably not between more than three guitars. I tend to move around a lot at my session....
S
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by snorre
Re: Session positioning
Never thought about corner loading ... I usually try to sit in a corner to have room to launch PA and anglo and english concertinas (one at a time). Must be why it's so noisy in my corner!.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Session positioning
Generally: if you sit yourself in a place where people have to walk through to reach the bar/the bog/go for a cigarette, then don't bitch about being disturbed by people who need to get past.
Specifically in our pub: Dont sit right at the end of a bench, cos when everyone else gets off it tips up and you fall a*se first onto the floor. Dont sit in the window cos its cold. And dont sit on the old settle on the left of the door cos it is really uncomfortable. But that's only in our pub.
Will says "strangers at sessions are just friends I haven't met yet".
An admirable sentiment, If only it were true. Strangers at sessions are sometimes found to be total dungbrains who spoil something which could have been really pleasant.
Keep up lads, keep up.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Session positioning
"♪♫♪♫" - ?
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Laughtonb
Re: Session positioning
Could I change my name to "♫" - the poster formally known as BegF ?
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by BegF
Re: Session positioning
positioning is an important issue for our session. Being the only non playing singer I tend to get shunted arround to enable individual musicians to spark off each other. The skill is to do this and still remain close enough to talk to the people who's company you really enjoy but far away from the prat who talks through the solos stuff. while it still looking as if you are moving simply for the benefit of the musicians.
J
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by jfother
Re: Session positioning
Sorry. BegF. I got there first.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Session positioning
We tend to sit where ever, and move around a lot too. Sometimes I end up in the same seat for most of the session...but other times, if I get up to get a drink, someone sits down in my chair and I sit elsewhere...and we start to play musical chairs. It's a lot of fun because you get to chat with a variety of people. And at the larger session I go to, there can be a LOT of people. The smaller session we have no real organization. I usually sit across from the banjo player (so I can hear myself! lol) and next to one of the fiddlers, sometimes next to the bodhran player (who also plays guitar).
So erm...organization? Yeah...none really! It's a fun free for all!
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Crysania
Re: Session positioning
As far away as possible from the non-buisness end of Mr Flutie and away from the percussion
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by snowyowl
Re: Session positioning
Quick vote: Is there anyone who likes to sit near the percussion?
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by ...
Re: Session positioning
Uh oh, I see where this is going . . .
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by kidcharlemagne
Re: Session positioning
By its very nature this thread is about not wanting to sit next to too-loud instruments, novice players, bodhrans & spoons, so I'm surprised it has taken so long to go where it is going....
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Session positioning
Except the players of these instruments themselves, perhaps.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Session positioning
Well, as a bodhran player, I guess I can't answer Mr Gill's question, given that I am the percussion . . .
But for the record, at my regular session I sit between the banjo and the bass, opposite the guitar, away from the corner of the room, where the flutes tend to congregate. The banjo leads a lot of the tunes. If I'm just dropping in on a session I'm not too familiar with, I'll gravitate towards the guitarist or vice versa - seems to be the accepted norm.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by kidcharlemagne
Re: Session positioning
So not even percussionists like to sit near percussionists?
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by ...
Re: Session positioning
What's all this about percussion? Are we not allowed to mention that instrument by its name now?
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Session positioning
I like to sit on the "right" side (i.e. the left-hand side) of left-handed banjo/madolin/guitar/zouk players for fairly obvious reasons. I don't know about the rest of you but there seems to be rather a lot of left-handed fret players in my area. At one session three out of the six fret-players there were left-handed.
. I try to avoid sitting next to guitars (mandolins are ok) or with a bodhrán to my immediate right. What I don't do is being on or near the main punter route to and from the toilets, but I also like to try and have an easy route to and from the bar. I always have my fiddle case within arm's reach, so that I can put the fiddle away safe when I go to the toilet or bar, - either by my feet or on a window ledge behind me. A table, or said window ledge, is essential support means for the glass of beer. I certainly don't like putting the glass on the floor, where I'll forget it and kick it over.
On the few occasions when I arrive late at a crowded session I perforce have to play standing up for a few minutes (sorry, Will!) until an empty seat materialises, which they tend to do anyway as the evening wears on. I always play standing up at home, but I fully appreciate Will's point about standing at sessions, and try to avoid it.
I like to sit fairly close to, or at any rate within easy sight of, a good fiddle player, in the hope that some sort of cerebral osmosis will work
Trevor
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Session positioning
A percussionist should never have to sit next to another percussionist . . . if there's more than one percussionist, there's too many. As we debated in an earlier thread, you don't want another guy going 'thumpity-click' while you're trying to go 'clickety-thump'.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by kidcharlemagne
Re: Session positioning
We make all our cr@p players sit on the edge of the patio/balcony thing, which doesn't have a railing. So that when we've had enough to drink for this to be funny, all it takes is a nudge and WHOA! Laughter all round! It's sort of an incentive to not be sh!te.
ah... imagine if that were true. Hee hee. Sorry. Having a surreal day.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Q
Re: Session positioning
Ah ... imagine ...
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by ...
Re: Session positioning
I try to avoid being beside myself.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: Session positioning
SABOTAGE !! (drip drip)
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by BegF
Re: Session positioning
John, sorry, now it's
The instrument that dare not speak it's name: Bodhran
The implements that dare not speak their name: Spoons
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Ottery
Re: Session positioning
I generally arrive late and there's not much choice. So it's usually in the path of the bog-visitors.
If I do have a choice, I'll sit beside any of the regulars in our session - they're all good guys and girls. Very, very rarely, there'll be a visitor with a "special" approach to the music that I'd rather not listen to too closely. However, we're Canadians, so I wouldn't dream of moving lest I offend anyone.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by grego
Re: Session positioning
No offence, but not within range of a fiddle. It's not the players fault, but how many of us have lost an eyeball or been impailed up the nostril?
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Folkie Junkie
Re: Session positioning
Not too close to similar instruments. No two whistles (or any other instrument) are ever entirely in tune and the pulsing hurts. I like to avoid the base end of the boxes as well if possible, however, at my local session, there is only a small entrace so you have to sit as far in and round as you can when you get there so others can squeeze in.
I also like to be opposite strange drummers so I can see what they are up to.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by The Cat
Re: Session positioning
"strange drummers", ah yes...
http://www.peterlanger.com/People/Musicians/pages/MXCEM011.htm
(sorry, flashback!)
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by grego
Re: Session positioning
Q has it right. In The White Horse I use to (like a ponce) postion myself so the guitar would reflect off the back wall until I realised that Orson had the right idea sitting on a high stool by the bar in the corner with all flanks covered. I think after a while you work out that that the best position is near a mate, with access to the bar & toilets. Also one where you can bunk off to talk to the great musicians at the bar who have the good taste not to play all the time.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Leftheris
Re: Session positioning
The session I go to is in the round, in someone's living room, so my preferred choice of seats is A) away from the cold window and B) in an armless chair so I don't have to worry about the frog of my bow. Other than that, it's a toss-up.
And I don't mind sitting by the percussion --- but he's a friend of mine. Plus he actually plays well. *grin*
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by sara g
Re: Session positioning
The Feng Shui of musician placement at a Session. I love it. Ciaran Carson could easily turn this topic into another chapter in Last Night's Fun.
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by improziv
Re: Session positioning
Oww! now I really do feel it's time to say "we've discussed this before....yadeyadeya", because I was politely letting it roll for hte present incumbents, so here goes:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/2163
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Session positioning
Sorry. I'm totally new here and didn't see that thread.
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by improziv
Re: Session positioning
Ah well, great minds think alike...
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Session positioning
I don't agree that you can't have more than one 'percussinist'. I attended a session in Belfast at the Hercules Bar. The session took place around an extremely long, say 14-16' long, table.
There were two bodhran players. Their instruments had different but complementary tones, and their styles meshed perfectly. Obviously they were regulars, each assigned to keep his half of this very long table in time with the other. It worked! I would loved to have sat between them.
Bob
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by Laughtonb
Re: Session positioning
I read through Discussion #2163 and I am sorry for posting a discussion with some similarity Rab, but mine was a little more specifically about the musical chairs and not about where you actually position the session in the pub or whatever. Anyway as it has been said before new ideas can come from rediscussing old topics.
BUT: I do think that it is great if people post the link to other similar discussions that they find/remember - thanks. I for one forget more than I remember.
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by Donough
Re: Session positioning
Jim - that was poetry! If your musical phrases are nearly as well put, then you are in good shape.
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by improziv
Re: Session positioning
Maybe they're just really good?
That reminds me of these two old (60-ish) guys we used to meet out on the x-country ski trails. They'd just be skiing along, chatting or whatever, not fast but never slowing down. All the younger folks would be passing them, but at the end of the day the old guys would be still going, still having a good time after everybody else had gone home tired.
# Posted on December 10th 2004 by Gzeg
Re: Session positioning
I can't deal with sitting too close to the guitar folks - it just makes it hard to hear --its a wall of sound thing- though I like to play off the guitar player if that person is good. Mostly I'm doing my best to floow the person that called the tune and keep everyone in tempo- I will often try to sit next to the best melody player -- because I like to learn up close and play as tightly as I can with that person. I also just like the fiddle best.
# Posted on December 13th 2004 by orlando2k