What would be your ideal Celtic Music class (for a mixed group of musicians and non-musicians)? What would you like to see included in the class? How long should it be? How interactive should it be?
The problem is that it wouldn't be ideal. I wouldn't call it a "Celtic" class for a start. That would be a big turn off for many people. Also, if it were to include both musicians and non musicians, the content would inevitably be very superficial.
So, I think we have to be a lot more specific here about
1) genre of music involved; Irish, Scottish or whatever
2) Instruments involved; whether a mixed instrument class or tuition in an individual instrument
3)Level of experience and ability of participants
In my area, I was lucky enough to become interested in ITM at the same time John Trimble was organizing a weekly ceoiltais of musicians and non-musicians. For beginners, it is meant to be the learning space below a session: the place you go to if you are not yet session-ready. We were recently visited by Zina Lee, who was very supportive. I'll share the way that it is organized, because the structure seems to support both beginners and experienced musicians.
1. THE GATHERING
(7:00 pm, for half an hour)
Precisely at 7:00 (our starting time), "Musicians of the Gathering" begin chosen sets of tunes most oldtimers know and the newcomers wish to. Everyone joins in playing. Perhaps slowly at the start, the same tunes are played again and again --- for half an hour --- as most of the gatherng gets up-to-speed by ear. The "Musicians" may rove about to play closely with those who are struggling, or to nod approvals. As a finale, they usually kick into a final speed-up to see how everyone does. Then, after 7:30 the Gathering separates into groups of choice, depending entirely on the individual.
2. THE GROUPS
(about an hour. 7:30 - 8:30 )
There is a genuine Slow Play Group, where the rawest beginners or classic sight-readers can profit --- without embarassment --- from trying to learn melodies or chords by ear.
It is led by the Musicians, who play only the chosen tunes that started the evening, repeating them clearly and slowly, so players can try again and again to get their memories and fingers into unity. Some will use sheet music for a quickstart, but the sooner it is set aside the better. Slow-Play stays slow to serve its slowest novices, as well as to help those trained in sight-reading who join Slow-Play as a drill to strengthen their power to play by hearing alone.
All the folks who already play by ear --- even a little --- can go have fun at their other level. The Intermediate Group offers an up-challenge for those who can play faster than slow-play. And for experienced players there is a Fast Irish Seisiun; or an Irish Circle where all take turns leading their choice Irish tune or song; or an O'Carolan ensemble enjoying the airs.
3. THE SINGULARS
(horn sounds at 8:30, take five minutes)
When the first horn sounds, the open Groups hour ends, and all join in a singularly odd ceoiltais tradition: Every person pairs with one other and either plays a singular tune from memory, or shares/mentors the trials of playing-by-ear. Five minutes of this is said to help clarify and re-energize the learner's by-ear resolve.
When the second horn sounds, we all gather together once again to play:
4. THE FAREWELL
(time remaining --- until 9:00 pm ending)
The Musicians lead the full gathering in a reprise of the tunes that started the evening (a final shot to reinforce our memories). Then we just open to other calls and enjoy our big Irish band until 9:00 announcements and farewell!
(The above was from prepared material)
It's that middle hour allowing people to form their own groups that gives experienced people a space to perform and beginners a hassle-free place to learn. Since this is a free, weekly rehearsal space, that's a big draw.
In addition to the above, John organizes a monthly guest from the local scene to demonstrate their skill or share their knowledge. This coming month it will be Michael Kelleher of Culann's Hounds who will deliver a much needed demo on rhythm guitar as accompaniment.
Other things we do is share resources, such as CDs or practice tapes, website reviews, or books like "See You at The Hall" by Susan Gedutis. And this December, a small group of our experienced musicians will be performing at the local city's holiday event in an old 19th century mansion.
Ok, I understand your points, John J, about being more specific and agree with you. I was thinking of a university setting (ie. class of college students who might be using it as a degree requirement, elective or the rare student who takes it just for fun).
If you were approached with teaching such a university class how would you go about doing it?
What would you include and what would you stray away from?
Does this change your comments or inspire any new ones?
That puts a different slant on things, Esfiddle. I was thinking more of a workshop scenario. I'll leave this one to the academics to answer. However, you'll find that the students on such courses are often musicians anyway and, in some cases, are auditioned before being accepted. At least, this what happens here.
I think esfiddle is referring to some students taking part in the class or course rather just than playing the music. "Fun" is maybe the wrong word here. "Out of interest" as opposed to being a career goal would probably be a better description, I'd imagine.
Are you Erin in SF?
I recently saw a class advertised at U.C.Santa Cruz extension in Cupertino, which was a course about Irish History through music. (Sounded very interesting to me, but since it's a little far and a little pricey, I'm not going to take it). Anyway, you might want to look up the instructor and ask him for some suggestions. Can't seem to find the catalog right now, but I believe his last name was Donellan.
Anyway, I don't see how interactive you can make it if there's non-muscians there. I'd just do it from the perspective of teaching about the different styles, traditions, well-known players, etc., and playing examples. You don't want to make the non-musicians feel left out by having the muscians play stuff without them.
Hey Erin! Are you teaching the classes now up there? ;) Or is this just out of curious?
Yeah, "Celtic" won't do you much good -- unless of course you intend to go over all the forms of "Celtic" that there are.
Hard to get interactive, as others have pointed out, with non-musos involved as well as musos. If you make it an Irish thing, I suppose you could have everyone dance a group dance to experience some of the social aspects of dancing, explain the difference between court music and dance music (and thereby linking the music to politics) in the Irish idiom, but I don't know enough about the other "celtic" forms of trad music to be able to suggest more for those forms.
I suppose from a history perspective, it'd be semi-interesting to track how reels and jigs and such followed dances (or vice versa) around the world, but that's a mighty nit-picky subject that the ethnomusicologists still argue about.
Try contacting Phillipe Varlet or Verena Commins or one of these other ethnomusicologist types to get some input from them, I'm thinking....although that still doesn't help you much with the "Celtic" side of things, just the Irish...
We should get together for a few tunes at *some* point...
BT: never less than 12 people but never more than 40 people have shown up. It's all local community and some people are on hand every Wednesday and others are there when schedules permit. Still others show up once and are never seen again.
But I see that I missed the mark a bit by interpreting 'non-musicians' in the original question to mean absolute beginners but still game to try playing an instrument.
Thinking now of a university setting that you've described, I'd imagine that some text selections would be good for the non-musicians and I recommend Gearóid O hAllmhuráin's "A Pocket History of Irish Traditional Music" as one.
I think a strictly acadmic offering could be of interest to many - musicians and non musicians alike. That is it might be more of a celtic music appreciation course, which might cover differences/similarities in various traditions and cultures. It could feature archive and historical recordings, talks by collectors, ethno musicologists, folklorists, etc. Talks/interviews/performances by older and younger musicians. The question you would need to ask before you begin to plan it is: "shall I go for breadth or depth?"
Celtic music is a huge subject. Impossible to cover in depth, possible to give a wide overview if you have sufficient knowledge and sources.
Traditional Celtic music in the 20th century British Isles would allow for more depth.(Just don't ask me to define Celtic or traditional.)
Yes, Zina, at this point it is just out of curiosity and hopefulness of a chance to teach in the future.
I am currently taking a university "Celtic Music" class here in Nova Scotia and although the teacher has fantastic connections, shares rare recordings, has frequent in-class guest performances and lectures, and encourages students to do exploratory learning projects it does not seem to be really successful. I frequently see students studying other subjects during his lectures, talking or even leaving in the middle of class. Just about every voluntary comment I hear about the class is a complaint, or a justification for slacking off.
If I ever have the opportunity to teach a class(s) dealing with Celtic music or some aspect there of, I would like to do it in a way that engages the students. Hence, my asking the questions.
Celtic Music Class
Celtic Music Class
What would be your ideal Celtic Music class (for a mixed group of musicians and non-musicians)? What would you like to see included in the class? How long should it be? How interactive should it be?
Erin
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by esfiddle
Re: Celtic Music Class
The problem is that it wouldn't be ideal. I wouldn't call it a "Celtic" class for a start. That would be a big turn off for many people. Also, if it were to include both musicians and non musicians, the content would inevitably be very superficial.
So, I think we have to be a lot more specific here about
1) genre of music involved; Irish, Scottish or whatever
2) Instruments involved; whether a mixed instrument class or tuition in an individual instrument
3)Level of experience and ability of participants
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by John J.
Re: Celtic Music Class
In my area, I was lucky enough to become interested in ITM at the same time John Trimble was organizing a weekly ceoiltais of musicians and non-musicians. For beginners, it is meant to be the learning space below a session: the place you go to if you are not yet session-ready. We were recently visited by Zina Lee, who was very supportive. I'll share the way that it is organized, because the structure seems to support both beginners and experienced musicians.
1. THE GATHERING
(7:00 pm, for half an hour)
Precisely at 7:00 (our starting time), "Musicians of the Gathering" begin chosen sets of tunes most oldtimers know and the newcomers wish to. Everyone joins in playing. Perhaps slowly at the start, the same tunes are played again and again --- for half an hour --- as most of the gatherng gets up-to-speed by ear. The "Musicians" may rove about to play closely with those who are struggling, or to nod approvals. As a finale, they usually kick into a final speed-up to see how everyone does. Then, after 7:30 the Gathering separates into groups of choice, depending entirely on the individual.
2. THE GROUPS
(about an hour. 7:30 - 8:30 )
There is a genuine Slow Play Group, where the rawest beginners or classic sight-readers can profit --- without embarassment --- from trying to learn melodies or chords by ear.
It is led by the Musicians, who play only the chosen tunes that started the evening, repeating them clearly and slowly, so players can try again and again to get their memories and fingers into unity. Some will use sheet music for a quickstart, but the sooner it is set aside the better. Slow-Play stays slow to serve its slowest novices, as well as to help those trained in sight-reading who join Slow-Play as a drill to strengthen their power to play by hearing alone.
All the folks who already play by ear --- even a little --- can go have fun at their other level. The Intermediate Group offers an up-challenge for those who can play faster than slow-play. And for experienced players there is a Fast Irish Seisiun; or an Irish Circle where all take turns leading their choice Irish tune or song; or an O'Carolan ensemble enjoying the airs.
3. THE SINGULARS
(horn sounds at 8:30, take five minutes)
When the first horn sounds, the open Groups hour ends, and all join in a singularly odd ceoiltais tradition: Every person pairs with one other and either plays a singular tune from memory, or shares/mentors the trials of playing-by-ear. Five minutes of this is said to help clarify and re-energize the learner's by-ear resolve.
When the second horn sounds, we all gather together once again to play:
4. THE FAREWELL
(time remaining --- until 9:00 pm ending)
The Musicians lead the full gathering in a reprise of the tunes that started the evening (a final shot to reinforce our memories). Then we just open to other calls and enjoy our big Irish band until 9:00 announcements and farewell!
(The above was from prepared material)
It's that middle hour allowing people to form their own groups that gives experienced people a space to perform and beginners a hassle-free place to learn. Since this is a free, weekly rehearsal space, that's a big draw.
In addition to the above, John organizes a monthly guest from the local scene to demonstrate their skill or share their knowledge. This coming month it will be Michael Kelleher of Culann's Hounds who will deliver a much needed demo on rhythm guitar as accompaniment.
Other things we do is share resources, such as CDs or practice tapes, website reviews, or books like "See You at The Hall" by Susan Gedutis. And this December, a small group of our experienced musicians will be performing at the local city's holiday event in an old 19th century mansion.
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by SanFranMando
Re: Celtic Music Class
Ok, I understand your points, John J, about being more specific and agree with you. I was thinking of a university setting (ie. class of college students who might be using it as a degree requirement, elective or the rare student who takes it just for fun).
If you were approached with teaching such a university class how would you go about doing it?
What would you include and what would you stray away from?
Does this change your comments or inspire any new ones?
Thanks,
Erin
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by esfiddle
Re: Celtic Music Class
Jeeper SanFran,
How many people show up for this affair?
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by bt
Re: Celtic Music Class
That puts a different slant on things, Esfiddle. I was thinking more of a workshop scenario. I'll leave this one to the academics to answer. However, you'll find that the students on such courses are often musicians anyway and, in some cases, are auditioned before being accepted. At least, this what happens here.
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by John J.
Re: Celtic Music Class
"...the rare student who takes it just for fun..."
That is so foreign to me as a concept, as to be incomprehensible. I mean, people learning to play for reasons other than fun.
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by grego
Re: Celtic Music Class
I think esfiddle is referring to some students taking part in the class or course rather just than playing the music. "Fun" is maybe the wrong word here. "Out of interest" as opposed to being a career goal would probably be a better description, I'd imagine.
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by John J.
Re: Celtic Music Class
Yes, JohnJ. Thanks for the clarification. That is what I was meaning by "... the rare student who takes it for fun".
So any suggestions?
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by esfiddle
Re: Celtic Music Class
Ah.
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by grego
Re: Celtic Music Class
Hi Erin,
Are you Erin in SF?
I recently saw a class advertised at U.C.Santa Cruz extension in Cupertino, which was a course about Irish History through music. (Sounded very interesting to me, but since it's a little far and a little pricey, I'm not going to take it). Anyway, you might want to look up the instructor and ask him for some suggestions. Can't seem to find the catalog right now, but I believe his last name was Donellan.
Anyway, I don't see how interactive you can make it if there's non-muscians there. I'd just do it from the perspective of teaching about the different styles, traditions, well-known players, etc., and playing examples. You don't want to make the non-musicians feel left out by having the muscians play stuff without them.
Justine
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by feadogin
Re: Celtic Music Class
Hey Erin! Are you teaching the classes now up there? ;) Or is this just out of curious?
Yeah, "Celtic" won't do you much good -- unless of course you intend to go over all the forms of "Celtic" that there are.
Hard to get interactive, as others have pointed out, with non-musos involved as well as musos. If you make it an Irish thing, I suppose you could have everyone dance a group dance to experience some of the social aspects of dancing, explain the difference between court music and dance music (and thereby linking the music to politics) in the Irish idiom, but I don't know enough about the other "celtic" forms of trad music to be able to suggest more for those forms.
I suppose from a history perspective, it'd be semi-interesting to track how reels and jigs and such followed dances (or vice versa) around the world, but that's a mighty nit-picky subject that the ethnomusicologists still argue about.
Try contacting Phillipe Varlet or Verena Commins or one of these other ethnomusicologist types to get some input from them, I'm thinking....although that still doesn't help you much with the "Celtic" side of things, just the Irish...
We should get together for a few tunes at *some* point...
P.S. Hi, San Fran!
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Celtic Music Class
Oh, wouldn't it be fun to hold a class in Irish music at a local pub with dancing and music? ;)
# Posted on November 24th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Celtic Music Class
BT: never less than 12 people but never more than 40 people have shown up. It's all local community and some people are on hand every Wednesday and others are there when schedules permit. Still others show up once and are never seen again.
But I see that I missed the mark a bit by interpreting 'non-musicians' in the original question to mean absolute beginners but still game to try playing an instrument.
Thinking now of a university setting that you've described, I'd imagine that some text selections would be good for the non-musicians and I recommend Gearóid O hAllmhuráin's "A Pocket History of Irish Traditional Music" as one.
And hello to YOU Zina Lee!
# Posted on November 25th 2004 by SanFranMando
Re: Celtic Music Class
I think a strictly acadmic offering could be of interest to many - musicians and non musicians alike. That is it might be more of a celtic music appreciation course, which might cover differences/similarities in various traditions and cultures. It could feature archive and historical recordings, talks by collectors, ethno musicologists, folklorists, etc. Talks/interviews/performances by older and younger musicians. The question you would need to ask before you begin to plan it is: "shall I go for breadth or depth?"
Celtic music is a huge subject. Impossible to cover in depth, possible to give a wide overview if you have sufficient knowledge and sources.
Traditional Celtic music in the 20th century British Isles would allow for more depth.(Just don't ask me to define Celtic or traditional.)
# Posted on November 25th 2004 by kris
Re: Celtic Music Class
Yes, Zina, at this point it is just out of curiosity and hopefulness of a chance to teach in the future.
I am currently taking a university "Celtic Music" class here in Nova Scotia and although the teacher has fantastic connections, shares rare recordings, has frequent in-class guest performances and lectures, and encourages students to do exploratory learning projects it does not seem to be really successful. I frequently see students studying other subjects during his lectures, talking or even leaving in the middle of class. Just about every voluntary comment I hear about the class is a complaint, or a justification for slacking off.
If I ever have the opportunity to teach a class(s) dealing with Celtic music or some aspect there of, I would like to do it in a way that engages the students. Hence, my asking the questions.
# Posted on November 26th 2004 by esfiddle