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Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

I play fiddle and (not lately though) flute. I've been starting on the pipes as of late. I'm wondering how others who have gone this route have dealt with switching gears from instrument. What I mean is that when I started on the fiddle, I'd been playing flute for a few years, so I had a tendancy to try to play tunes on the fiddle in the style of my flute playing. This doesn't always work since they're different animals. A spot where a cut, tap or roll works on the flute doesn't necessarily work as well or easily on the fiddle. It seems to have worked itself out, and now I go right into fiddle mode most of the time. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good way to switch gears in the brain to get the hands and ears to realize you're playing a different instrument? Once I was able to do this with the fiddle, I made much quicker proress and developed a nice style. I have no idea how I did it, so knowing how would make it easier this time around! Just to clarify, I do know that it's possible to play an instrument in a style similar to another instrument. Plenty of fiddlers whose playing is pipe-like and such. Just that I think that ends up coming later after you've learned to separate the two. I'm probably not making sense anymore, I can't figure out how to articulate this.....

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

I play the flute and whistle, so you'd think that the style of playing would be similar.
Funnily enough, it's not. My whistle style has a lot more ornamentation to it, while still playing the melody, but on my flute my style is more plain but concentrates on harmonies. Don't ask me why, I just do it.

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by Folkie Junkie

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Funny, I don't play the whistle often, but I tend to play it in a flute style for the most part. It doesn't work as well as it does on the flute. Sounds fine, just not as "whistle-y"

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Hi meemtp - I'm a fiddle player and have made a similar move to the pipes myself this year.

Piping is an entirely different mindset, at least that's how it feels to me. Part of that could be the commitment the instrument demands (maintenance and screwing around with reeds and such), not to mention that special demand your chanter places on you to play each note in tune. (I see the playing part of it as less than half of the total equation actually).

For that bit - you have to listen aggressively to lots of different pipers. Get it in your head and in your bones. That'll help you make the separation.

Cheers.

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by _Steph_

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Thanks Steph, I actually did the same I guess when learning the fiddle. The tough part was that in my mind I had fiddle style and technique, and the technical aspects of fiddle playing down. But somewhere in between there would be a disconnect, and my flute style would pop in there. Like I said, it doesn't work completely with the fiddle. Although, I've found now that I've been playing the fiddle for years, that my style has become more lyrical and blends well with pipes and flute. Interestingly enough, my flute style is the same.

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

......As it ever was. I wish we could go back and edit our posts!

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

I play flute and fiddle, playing flute longer than the fiddle. I tend to play the faster stuff on the fiddle, although not always, and slower airs and lilty pieces on the flute, although not always. I don't know that either has a different style as such.

I've always had a hankering to try the pipes, as I really feel they 'tell' the music as it is. I think I'm too old to start and wouldn't know how and where to begin either.

Curious about what you say Steph, about playing in tune, does playing the fiddle help with keeping in tune on the pipes? Playing fiddle has the same problem (although not in the same way)?

Sue

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by Fiiddle R

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Sue, I don't think anyone's too old to start something new ever. Even if you only have the "time" to learn a few tunes to play at home you'll have the satisfaction. I'm not terribly old (31) but, I am still starting pipes at what some would consider a late stage. All I want to do at this point is satisfy an alomost lifelong obsession with the pipes and increase my personal enjoyment. I play the flute and fiddle at a fairly high level so I have that need filled already. Anything else is icing on the cake :)

# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Just backing up the whistle/flute discussion... If I've learned a tune on the flute it translates to whistle fairly seamlessly (usually gaining a more ornate ornamentation and longer phrases in the process). If, however, the reverse is the case (as it often is since I am more likely to have a whistle laying around than my flute) there is far more work involved in terms of reworking phrases and re-structuring the ornamental system of the tune....
The upshot being: I don't think there is a way to expedite the switching of gears other than dedicated practice of all the instruments in question....

# Posted on November 15th 2004 by bestcraic

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)


Hey meemtp - I'll second that - never too late, especially if you have enthusiasm for it. I'm 29 myself and am looking forward to the many years of piping and fiddling ahead.

Sue - I'd say that having the tunes in my head and having played with alot of pipers helps with tuning* (see below) - my ears and brain are expecting the incoming sound to match up with what's in there (the tune that is, not the many voices and half-dead brain cells crying for help!)

Now that I have got the bellows to 'second-nature' status, I'd say that the fiddle playing is definitely speeding up the rate at which I am learning to do ornamentation - cuts and rolls and pats and such. (Actually I am discovering just how pipey my fiddle playing is) That's not because the finger movements are the same, but rather because I know how they should sound when executed slowly, having already been through that exercise before.

* As for actually playing in tune - that's the bit that causes me to feel that I am engaged in a different endeavor than when I play the fiddle. There are so many more variables that influence whether or not a note is in tune (hardware and me the player). A piper will by default spend a significantly greater amount time trying to learn and adjust and relearn the influences of the hardware on the tuning of the note (than say a fiddle player or flute player), not to mention then train the body to apply the right amount of pressure at the bag (to me this is analagous to training your fingers to always go back to the same place and making microadjustments to get your notes in tune). It's this commitment to the instrument that, for me at least, makes it just feel like a completely different experience altogether than fiddle playing. Of course that's coming from a novice piper. Sorry for going on and on.

The other thing is that I feel like I 'know' my pipes better than I 'know' my fiddle, despite having spent time on an order of magnitude more with the latter. The fiddle's not jealous though...I think...

Well good luck - and as a wise friend of mine likes to tell me - "may your back D never gargle"

Cheers.

# Posted on November 15th 2004 by _Steph_

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

You're all a bunch of kids, 29, 31, hahI saw Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young at the Greek Theater in L.A. when I was your age ;-) You can google when they played that venue.... and then do the math

I find I know my pipes better than my fiddle and I know my ornamentation WAY better on pipes than on fiddle. You are also correct that you tweak your reeds via some arcane rules when the humidity goes up or down. I think a fiddle player doesn't have to worry about the weather as much. Look at the good side, bottom D, A and back D sound right, then all is well with the world. A fiddle player has to figure out how you are tuned. In my case, or not...

# Posted on November 15th 2004 by I_Fel

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Yeah, tuning and knowing the instruments is different w/ both. At our sesh tonight, everyone was having tuning issues, including myself. My fiddle is normally very stable with the strings I use, but tonight was a bit of a problem. I still spent far less time correcting it than my piper friend/teacher who was really having problems. The knowledge of his instrument that he has made all the difference though. I just got in tune, but when he was done, not only was he in tune, but his pipes sounded better tonewise than they had before! Man, as much as I'm excited to learn this stuff, it's also a little overwhelming. I had to have him go over the chanter for me on the practice set when I got it. I've never had to have someone else get an instrument that was new to me in tune for me!

# Posted on November 15th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

my best advice is to just play lots of different instruments. the more you play, the easier it gets.

# Posted on November 15th 2004 by sifudave54

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

Well, I already play flute, whistle and fiddle, which also means I get a tune out on tenor banjo and mando as well. I don't think that's necessarily the solution. I have always picked up instruments well, but to play the pipes, I'll be cutting back on others. I'll probably stick to mostly the flute and whistle and cut back on the fiddling when I want to play tunes because I think those are most complimentary to the pipes. Although, I need to get used to keeping the fingers straight and flat, and having a couple extra holes to work with!

# Posted on November 15th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

I Agree with Meemtp, the more instruments you play, the easier it gets. I play fiddle and whistle, (I learned whistle later), and I found out that when I change instrument more often, it sounds worse. So try to concentrate on one istrument for a copule of hours, and then change. What I also have noticed is that the tunes not being so easy on fiddle, is really easy and more satisfying to play on a whistle, and vice versa. Although it depends on which key the Whistle has...

Axel - Sweden

# Posted on November 15th 2004 by axelw

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

I had a "laying on of hands" on my pipes by Benedict Koehler at our so Cal Tionol and my set HAS NEVER, EVER sounded better. The drones, the chanter...my oh my...The weather here in so Calif has swung from 50-60 % humidity to 39% (today) and they still play well. You're right in saying you had someone else get your instrument in tune can be an eye opener....
As to tunes, there are pipe tunes and some less suited to pipes....
something akin to a US Navy saying, there are two types of ships, submarines and targets...

# Posted on November 16th 2004 by I_Fel

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

sue, i think everyone is too old to start the pipes, haha. especially if you start it after you know how to talk. then you'll spend 60 years catching up.

i have a question.... do people learn the pipes as a first instrument, or a second? like, most pipers at least played the whistle first, even if they gave it up. i've been trying to wrap my mind around how twisted you'd have to be if your first instrument was a concertina, never mind the pipes.

# Posted on November 16th 2004 by daiv

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)


I'd say that depends on when and a player got into it. It's quite common for kids getting 'formal' training in ITM to begin with the whistle, and then graduate on to other instruments.

For those who didn't start out playing this music as kids, and may have either discovered it later in life, or never took an interest in it until then - well I'd have to say it's a big crap shoot as to which instrument they chose to start on. Probably more tied to the details of the momentuous event that caused them to want to start playing at all.

# Posted on November 16th 2004 by _Steph_

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

it was guitar, fiddle, pipes and THEN whistle; with a banjo tossed in for one or two tunes in the guitar part of my life. Hmmmm looks like the old egyptian riddle, what crawls on 4 in the morning, 2 in the mid day and three in the afternoon- sorry for the analogy to all you classics people out there....

And yes, momentuous events like the Chieftains came to L.A. way back when and I got 2nd row, center seats and tried to figure out how all that came out of 7 pipes.

# Posted on November 16th 2004 by I_Fel

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

The UPs were the first instrument I fell in love with. My dad had a Seamus Ennis LP that I heard when I was 6. Pretty much the same reaction as Fel.

# Posted on November 17th 2004 by meemtp

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

The key to acheiving true multi-instrumental status is practicing on all your instruments every day. I had a golden era of unemployment where I'd wake up and play an hour or so of hammered dulcimer before breakfast, a couple hours of fiddle afterwards, at least an hour of harp, then some guitar. I threw in a couple minutes of didgeridoo and bodhran here and there for kicks. It didn't last very long, because I had bills to play, but while I was visiting all my instruments every day, my skill level on each of them was pretty solid. There wasn't much bleed-over as far as my harp sounding like a hammered dulcimer, or my fiddle sounding like a piano, because my repertoire on each instrument was completely different, and also because by playing them every day I got to know them as seperate, individual entities requiring different melodies and techniques to really shine.

Maybe to develop a seperate pipe style, you could learn new tunes specifically because they speak to you as pipe tunes. Don't just transfer your flute / fiddle tunes until you're very comfortable in your relationship with the pipes. At that point, you can mix and match to your heart's content.

# Posted on November 17th 2004 by Kerri Brown

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

kerri- good advice. i've been trying to do that myself. i just decided last night that i have to practice each one, once a day. eventually i'd like to get a half an hour / hour on each, but i'll shoot for five minutes. i will start with recorder because i want to practice it least (i have 2 recorder concerts to practice for! its all fun music, i just dont like the recorder as much as flute), then concertina, because i love it but i'm usually too lazy to practice cuz it takes so much concentration. then i can go to flute, because if i do flute i'll just play it for five hours and then watch tv for an hour or 2 before going to bed.

if only i wasnt bothered by this infernal internet... i need to get back into my hours on end practice! at the beginning of this school year i beat it, i would practice for 5 hours a day. what has happened! haha, i guess i cant be committed so much for too long. maybe if the internet goes down...

# Posted on November 17th 2004 by daiv

Re: Question for multi-instrumentalists (especially pipers)

It's hard to keep up that kind of momentum if there's no "payoff" in the real world, for me. IE, gigs coming up or a recording project or something. After six or seven hours of playing I used to think "Well, what was the point of all that?"

I want to get back to it though, even if (as you say, daiv) it's just five or ten minutes a day on each toy. Although half an hour is about the minimum I can put in to feel I've made progress. I could do two different toys a night though, for half an hour each, mixing up the pairings, and skip Law and Order, without needing to magically squeeze another hour into a day...

# Posted on November 17th 2004 by Kerri Brown

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