Hey. I was just wondering, how many people do you know that just like the music to listen? In my experience, liking trad music has more to do with the culture. Even people who go to listen to sessions are going to a pub. In my experience it's rare to find someone who listens to real trad celtic playing just to listen (i.e. on CDs) and never goes to a dance, a pub, or plays an instrument. I've found that the more Irish music I play, the more Irish music I like. The more I get involved with the people, the places, the history, etc., the more it grows on me.
But then again, maybe people in my area (New England) just aren't into trad. music for the pure sake of listening. What do y'all think?
To expand on that a little, I suppose that I should clarify that most people I meet enjoy listening to a few tunes, however, they won't say go out and seek CDs because its one of their "listening" types of music or such.
I listened to the stuff for years ('76-'97) before playing it.
Sometimes, I'll still put it on just for the pleasure of listening to it. And I still make an effort to see travelling ITM players when they come to my area.
Sad to say, I liked ITM better before I began to play it. [The 5th ammendment of the US Constitution cuts off this paragraph for me].
I have to shamefully admit that I would very rarely buy a trad CD for the pure aesthetic pleasure of listening to it...more to satify curiosity, see what's new...what new tunes I could learn. I get more pleasure from playing the tunes than listening to them.
A few exceptions to this sentiment would be Flook's 'Rubai' & most albums '4 Men & a Dog'... now those really rock!! But that's just me...
I don't know anyone myself who doesn't also play. I did just listen for a long time though. Pretty much from when I was born till I was 25. Which I'm sure helped a lot when I was starting to learn. I grew up with it live too. My dad was a box and flute player.
I've found a lot of the stuff I listen to now is more Pure Drop than what I listened to before I started playing. Part of it is that it's better for learning, but I also enjoy it more. Unaccompanied pipe/fiddle duets is my current favorite form of the music.
Like Jim, fellow member of Tradaholics Anonymous, I don't buy the stuff anymore for pleasure. Just one more album, just one more, pleeeease...I NEED to hear how Seamus Connolly plays I'm Waiting For You or Mick Mulvey does Kiss the Maid Behind the Barrell.....ahem...sorry..er..yes... just curious, really..
I've known a fair number of people who love the music but don't play it - but then, I've known them quite often, through the local trad music scene - or if not via that route, then I'd have felt more at home with them knowing they are into the music. It certainly is a strong glue. If you find out someone is into this music, even if you know them from a different field, then instantly mutual love of the music acts as a binding agent. But I guess there are a fair few broadminded people
who like to have a few Lunasa/Altan/Chieftains/Helen Roche CD's in theis collection :~}, but who aren't addicted like us Damned.
My brother listens but doesn't play. Also I've met quite a few people who listen but don't play, or don't play much (bodhran players in this category, heheh.) And I've met even more people who just have a few albums, as rab describes, and who will go to see those bands whose albums they have, if somebody tells them about the concert.
I jumped into the music with both feet, as well as hands, ears, eyes, etc. I never was content to "just" listen (other than going to a concert); I always wanted to play.
But in the past several years, I've tried to expand on the listening end of things, i.e., CDs. I have access to some great library collections with lots of traditional music, so I check out CDs continually, of groups, individual performers, etc. I listen to them in my office, so (hopefully) I can soak up the tunes and songs.
I've always been(still am)an avid listener of various genres of music, although for several years it has been predominantly folk or trad influenced. Since I've started playing the number of "tune" albums I 've purchased has definitely increased. Sometimes I listen to them just for enjoyment but other times to learn new tunes and appreciate how they should or could be played.
I think it's very important to "Listen, listen, listen". Just thought I'd say that before anyone else does.
thing is, i definitely got into trad *thru* CDs. to be honest, i got into trad after listening to flogging molly. then i started downloading some tunes on kazaa (heinous! i know), then purchased altan and danu...it was just a downward spiral from there. thing is, i really enjoy listening to the trad band CDs. but i like the ones that are heavily arranged (but still very traditional), with a lot of instruments, and CDs with songs on them (i'm a singer before anything else). also, though, i think that since i play the bodhran i like to listen to all sorts of CDs because i just like to absorb all the music that i can, because i really play by just feeling the music, if that makes sense.
i actually really didnt like the pipe/fiddle combo when i heard it...at least, when theyre playing the exact same thing. i dunno. it just didnt mesh, in my opinion.
What pipe/fiddle duets have you been listening to Bard? IMO they mesh perfectly, just listen to Robbie Hannan and Paddy Glackin together, or the aforementioned Mick O'Brien album. It's an especially nice effect with a flat set and tuned down fiddle. Far more richer and resonant than concert pitch to my ears. I'm actually becoming addicted to listening to flat pitch piping. When I play fiddle with my piper friend, he uses his Cset and the effect is fantastic. Especially since we play pretty tightly.
Over the years my taste for listening has been for duets and solo pieces so I can hear what's happening. There's nothing like listening to the loud, racey onslaught of some of the bands though. I still love the Bothy band.
As for the actual topic of this thread - I've a couple things to add:
1. This music either grabs you by the ears or it doesn't. My old housemate and I were exposed to this music for the first time together - had the same amazing experience involving Peter Horan.
Now I came away vowing to learn the fiddle and play it forever, all the while campaigning to get Peter Horan put on the Wheaties box. My roomate chose to go the "Yeah that was nice" route: "I'll buy me a couple of Chieftains and Old Blind Dogs recordings, have me a pint of Guinness and call it a day. Tomorrow, I'll be back to obsessing over Tom Waits."
2. I have to agree with the cultural hook. The people who come out to sessions but don't play the tunes (with the caveat of they're there to listen and not to just get drunk and get into a fight) probably have some other interest in the culture (singing, ceili dancing, telling of dirty stories, etc.) I'd say that's more what I've experienced in Ireland than what I've experienced here in the US. Our Saturday session in Buffalo is at a bar in a notoriously 'artsy' part of town, so we get a weird mix of regular spectators - some view it as a way to class up their evening out, others I think see it as some sort of subversive cultural movement (a live peformance not involving amplification or Stairway to Heaven - a real novelty)
In any case the number one comment made from the folks who come back each week is that they enjoy the energy and vibe coming from the players and how people feed off of one another, and that they feel more a part of it because it's not a performance.
I really get a boost from having people listening in who I know are into the music, and who I can tell are enjoying themselves.
I listened to albums and went to concerts by trad bands like Planxty, Bothy Band, Stockton's Wing, and so on for many many years, without playing myself. The only exposure to "pure drop" was the likes of Micho Russel who would be squeezed in between the Chieftans and Paul Brady at a folk festival and, I'm embarrassed to say, I'd be impatient for them to leave so the next band could get on stage.
Only after starting to play did I invest in solo recordings, which I now appreciate and listen to constantly - all kinds: fiddle, flute, banjo, pipes... Maybe it does take some dabbling for the modern attention-defecit mind to appreciate such things.
Oddly, Greg, it seems that I've noted that that's a significant signpost in the player's growth pattern, when they can begin to appreciate the older, solo stuff just as much if not more than the heavily arranged, modern rock type stuff, then it seems that the understanding of this stuff is really sinking in. Seems pretty common...
I think Zina's right. Like I said, I go for the more Pure Drop stuff now after 6 years of playing. I do feel that I really understand the stuff now. Which, IMHO, is a key to bringing the playing to the next level. It becomes less about technical mastery of your instrument and starts to be more about knowing what to do with the music. There's an interesting discussion on a UP forum I'm on about this (sort of) Basically, on average a piper can be considered fully technically proficient after about 8-10 years (exceptions do exist) The old saw about 21 years is thought to be the time that it took to fully understand both the technical points and Das Musik combined. Pure conjecture, but it makes sense.
Sean Keane-Gusty's Frolics
Oisin MacDiarmada's solo album, can't rememeber the name.
James Kelly-Melodic Journeys
Malachy Bourke-Draw the Bow (bodhran on a couple sets, but nothing otherwise)
John Doherty-The celebrated recordings
Tommy Potts-The liffey Banks (unconventional, but one of my all-time favs)
Paddy Glackin-Self-titled from 1977 (mostly unaccompanied)
How many just like the music to listen?
How many just like the music to listen?
Hey. I was just wondering, how many people do you know that just like the music to listen? In my experience, liking trad music has more to do with the culture. Even people who go to listen to sessions are going to a pub. In my experience it's rare to find someone who listens to real trad celtic playing just to listen (i.e. on CDs) and never goes to a dance, a pub, or plays an instrument. I've found that the more Irish music I play, the more Irish music I like. The more I get involved with the people, the places, the history, etc., the more it grows on me.
But then again, maybe people in my area (New England) just aren't into trad. music for the pure sake of listening. What do y'all think?
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
To expand on that a little, I suppose that I should clarify that most people I meet enjoy listening to a few tunes, however, they won't say go out and seek CDs because its one of their "listening" types of music or such.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I listened to the stuff for years ('76-'97) before playing it.
Sometimes, I'll still put it on just for the pleasure of listening to it. And I still make an effort to see travelling ITM players when they come to my area.
Sad to say, I liked ITM better before I began to play it. [The 5th ammendment of the US Constitution cuts off this paragraph for me].
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by KC Gross
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I have to shamefully admit that I would very rarely buy a trad CD for the pure aesthetic pleasure of listening to it...more to satify curiosity, see what's new...what new tunes I could learn. I get more pleasure from playing the tunes than listening to them.
A few exceptions to this sentiment would be Flook's 'Rubai' & most albums '4 Men & a Dog'... now those really rock!! But that's just me...
Jim
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I don't know anyone myself who doesn't also play. I did just listen for a long time though. Pretty much from when I was born till I was 25. Which I'm sure helped a lot when I was starting to learn. I grew up with it live too. My dad was a box and flute player.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by meemtp
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I've found a lot of the stuff I listen to now is more Pure Drop than what I listened to before I started playing. Part of it is that it's better for learning, but I also enjoy it more. Unaccompanied pipe/fiddle duets is my current favorite form of the music.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by meemtp
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Like Jim, fellow member of Tradaholics Anonymous, I don't buy the stuff anymore for pleasure. Just one more album, just one more, pleeeease...I NEED to hear how Seamus Connolly plays I'm Waiting For You or Mick Mulvey does Kiss the Maid Behind the Barrell.....ahem...sorry..er..yes... just curious, really..
I've known a fair number of people who love the music but don't play it - but then, I've known them quite often, through the local trad music scene - or if not via that route, then I'd have felt more at home with them knowing they are into the music. It certainly is a strong glue. If you find out someone is into this music, even if you know them from a different field, then instantly mutual love of the music acts as a binding agent. But I guess there are a fair few broadminded people
who like to have a few Lunasa/Altan/Chieftains/Helen Roche CD's in theis collection :~}, but who aren't addicted like us Damned.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
My brother listens but doesn't play. Also I've met quite a few people who listen but don't play, or don't play much (bodhran players in this category, heheh.) And I've met even more people who just have a few albums, as rab describes, and who will go to see those bands whose albums they have, if somebody tells them about the concert.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by m_gavin
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I jumped into the music with both feet, as well as hands, ears, eyes, etc. I never was content to "just" listen (other than going to a concert); I always wanted to play.
But in the past several years, I've tried to expand on the listening end of things, i.e., CDs. I have access to some great library collections with lots of traditional music, so I check out CDs continually, of groups, individual performers, etc. I listen to them in my office, so (hopefully) I can soak up the tunes and songs.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by sts
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I've always been(still am)an avid listener of various genres of music, although for several years it has been predominantly folk or trad influenced. Since I've started playing the number of "tune" albums I 've purchased has definitely increased. Sometimes I listen to them just for enjoyment but other times to learn new tunes and appreciate how they should or could be played.
I think it's very important to "Listen, listen, listen". Just thought I'd say that before anyone else does.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by John J.
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
thing is, i definitely got into trad *thru* CDs. to be honest, i got into trad after listening to flogging molly. then i started downloading some tunes on kazaa (heinous! i know), then purchased altan and danu...it was just a downward spiral from there. thing is, i really enjoy listening to the trad band CDs. but i like the ones that are heavily arranged (but still very traditional), with a lot of instruments, and CDs with songs on them (i'm a singer before anything else). also, though, i think that since i play the bodhran i like to listen to all sorts of CDs because i just like to absorb all the music that i can, because i really play by just feeling the music, if that makes sense.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Bard
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
" Unaccompanied pipe/fiddle duets is my current favorite form of the music."
# Posted on Saturday, November 13th 2004 by meemtp
-----
Sounds like Mick O'Brien and Caoimhin O raghallaigh to me-and a good choice-I'm listening to them alot as well
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
i actually really didnt like the pipe/fiddle combo when i heard it...at least, when theyre playing the exact same thing. i dunno. it just didnt mesh, in my opinion.
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by Bard
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
What pipe/fiddle duets have you been listening to Bard? IMO they mesh perfectly, just listen to Robbie Hannan and Paddy Glackin together, or the aforementioned Mick O'Brien album. It's an especially nice effect with a flat set and tuned down fiddle. Far more richer and resonant than concert pitch to my ears. I'm actually becoming addicted to listening to flat pitch piping. When I play fiddle with my piper friend, he uses his Cset and the effect is fantastic. Especially since we play pretty tightly.
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Of course it may just not be your thing either, which is cool.
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I_Fel, one of my other current favs is Paddy Glackin & Robbie Hannan's "The Whirlwind" album. Great tight playing in B.
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by meemtp
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I like your discussion on fiddle and pipes-I'll go answer "over there"
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Over the years my taste for listening has been for duets and solo pieces so I can hear what's happening. There's nothing like listening to the loud, racey onslaught of some of the bands though. I still love the Bothy band.
Sue
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by Susie-Lee
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Ronan Browne & Peadar O'Loughlin's recordings are phenomenal as well.
Bard - you've got to get yourself dialed up with "Kitty Lie Over" - it will change your life!
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by _Steph_
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
As for the actual topic of this thread - I've a couple things to add:
1. This music either grabs you by the ears or it doesn't. My old housemate and I were exposed to this music for the first time together - had the same amazing experience involving Peter Horan.
Now I came away vowing to learn the fiddle and play it forever, all the while campaigning to get Peter Horan put on the Wheaties box. My roomate chose to go the "Yeah that was nice" route: "I'll buy me a couple of Chieftains and Old Blind Dogs recordings, have me a pint of Guinness and call it a day. Tomorrow, I'll be back to obsessing over Tom Waits."
2. I have to agree with the cultural hook. The people who come out to sessions but don't play the tunes (with the caveat of they're there to listen and not to just get drunk and get into a fight) probably have some other interest in the culture (singing, ceili dancing, telling of dirty stories, etc.) I'd say that's more what I've experienced in Ireland than what I've experienced here in the US. Our Saturday session in Buffalo is at a bar in a notoriously 'artsy' part of town, so we get a weird mix of regular spectators - some view it as a way to class up their evening out, others I think see it as some sort of subversive cultural movement (a live peformance not involving amplification or Stairway to Heaven - a real novelty)
In any case the number one comment made from the folks who come back each week is that they enjoy the energy and vibe coming from the players and how people feed off of one another, and that they feel more a part of it because it's not a performance.
I really get a boost from having people listening in who I know are into the music, and who I can tell are enjoying themselves.
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by _Steph_
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I listened to albums and went to concerts by trad bands like Planxty, Bothy Band, Stockton's Wing, and so on for many many years, without playing myself. The only exposure to "pure drop" was the likes of Micho Russel who would be squeezed in between the Chieftans and Paul Brady at a folk festival and, I'm embarrassed to say, I'd be impatient for them to leave so the next band could get on stage.
Only after starting to play did I invest in solo recordings, which I now appreciate and listen to constantly - all kinds: fiddle, flute, banjo, pipes... Maybe it does take some dabbling for the modern attention-defecit mind to appreciate such things.
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by grego
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Oddly, Greg, it seems that I've noted that that's a significant signpost in the player's growth pattern, when they can begin to appreciate the older, solo stuff just as much if not more than the heavily arranged, modern rock type stuff, then it seems that the understanding of this stuff is really sinking in. Seems pretty common...
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Hmmm
Curious, that is...
I wish more was out there that was the naked fiddle.....
sin é,
Pádraig
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by Pádraig
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Casey in the Cowhouse!
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
I think Zina's right. Like I said, I go for the more Pure Drop stuff now after 6 years of playing. I do feel that I really understand the stuff now. Which, IMHO, is a key to bringing the playing to the next level. It becomes less about technical mastery of your instrument and starts to be more about knowing what to do with the music. There's an interesting discussion on a UP forum I'm on about this (sort of) Basically, on average a piper can be considered fully technically proficient after about 8-10 years (exceptions do exist) The old saw about 21 years is thought to be the time that it took to fully understand both the technical points and Das Musik combined. Pure conjecture, but it makes sense.
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by meemtp
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Sean Keane-Gusty's Frolics
Oisin MacDiarmada's solo album, can't rememeber the name.
James Kelly-Melodic Journeys
Malachy Bourke-Draw the Bow (bodhran on a couple sets, but nothing otherwise)
John Doherty-The celebrated recordings
Tommy Potts-The liffey Banks (unconventional, but one of my all-time favs)
Paddy Glackin-Self-titled from 1977 (mostly unaccompanied)
That should get you started!
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by meemtp
Re: How many just like the music to listen?
Suppose, God forbid, you were unable to continue playing music. How would that affect your listening habits?
I suspect I wouldn't listen to the pure drop material as much.
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by grego