Is there any website which covers not just Irish tunes, but also the sets of tunes you are most likely to play a particular tune with?
For example, certain jigs will always be played with other jigs and everybody knows this in a session. It seems to be an area of Irish music that never really receives any true justice or much attention. Where I live on the West coast of Ireland, the older players always Know exactly where they are going in a session, but the younger players always seem lost half way into a set.
Sure there are some well known sets, but even those tunes get played with different tunes a fair amount. And so much depends on whose sets you learn. Lots of people still play the Coleman sets, but I've also heard West Clare players who tend more toward Crehan and Casey sets, northern players who follow Doherty sets, and so on.
Not that any of this helps. So...it never hurts to learn the sets from Coleman's records, and the Bothy Band, and sets from the Comholtas and Na Piobairi Uilleann books. For starters. And then be prepared for anyone to mix them up, add other tunes, etc.
This summer, at Catskill Irish Arts Week, Jackie Daly said more than once in his accordion class that certain tunes are always played together (e.g. Tripping Up The Stairs - Trip To Athlone; Boys of Tanderagee - Connaughtman's Rambles). It was obvious that he meant it very seriously. It was also obvious that it isn't true in the session world at large. It's probably very true locally, whatever that means in the global village.
Apologies to the esteemed Mr. Daly, but I've routinely played those tunes without their alleged partners. If someone wants to limit themselves that way, and their session mates don't complain, well, fine. But I'd think the 500th time you swooped into Trip to Athlone out of Tripping Upstairs, someone might start nodding off....
Yes, Will. So have we all. Maybe Jackie's point is that spur of the moment mix and match set construction is a relatively new phenomenon. I don't know for sure what he was trying to say, how literally or how universally he meant it, but that's what he said. Maybe his point is that tradition - things that are passed down over generations - includes not just tunes, but how tunes are combined, and it's local.
My Goodness. What am I reading here? The gospel according to St. Jackie?
I sat with them (Daly, Crannitch and Co.) in Furlongs. I led a set on the whistle - a home made set which I've had around me for a couple of years, The Dublin Reel, The Monaghan Twig, then The Convenience. Eyebrows (of the aforementioned) were raised in interest at the lift going from one tune to the next. Appreciative applause followed. Now, my whistle playing is far from perfect, but those lads clapped because they enjoyed a good set. I've said this before and will now repeat. Nothing is written in stone. Getting a good set of tunes together is almost THE major avenue of creativity in this game. And the rules for constructing a good set of tunes are constantly being re-written.
BTW, I suspect Jackie Daly was just setting out some ground rules for what you *should* do if you wake up and find yourself beamed down into an alien session. If you play standard sets you won't get et.
And also, on the other hand, I'm not necessarily a fan of unplanned attacks on tunes - drifting from one tune to the next, 5 straight reels in G. No thanks. it's a skill on its own knowing when to lift up to A or drop down to D, for the next tune...PS..I'm still learning...
thanks to all and some very good points indeed. I have on more than on occassion played with Jacky Daly and the rest of the North West Cork mafia and to be honest I don't recall any of them sticking to "written in stone" sets, Daly in particular will ramdomly switch between polka's at seconds notice. In Connemara, Galway, we tend to have no rules at all and will expect the unexpected all the time, we get a lot of players from clare, sligo and Cork and they seem to know what is happening around the corner even thought they usually don't know each other.
If at all the Coleman sets would be adhered to, probably because of our closeness to Sligo
A partial answer to compaqjohn's question would be to look at the comments in the Tunes section of this site. People often report what other tunes they're used to play a tune with.
In the Joe Mooney summer school (Drumshanbo, co. Leitrim), I heard Méabh Ni Lochlainn talking about the construction of sets. She referred to certain style rules that good sets should adhere to, having to do with tunes "of a similar nature". As an example, she didn't like following "anything for John-Joe?" with "Heather Breezes".
I for one woule be quite interested to know if you feel you can formulate such "style rules" more precisely.
Another good advice that I heard is not to play two tunes in succession that are very similar. Besides sounding less interesting, this has the potential of making you (well, me, anyway) return by mistake to the first tune in the middle of the next, mixing A and B parts etc.
But isn't it better to not play two tunes that are similar at all? What difference does it make if you play them back to back or an hour and a half a part? Choose one, the best one, and concine the other to the dust bin. If more people did this, then we'd start to lose the dreaded "all sounds the same" monicher.
But if you must play two tunes that sound the same, then it's better to play them back to back, that way you can hone in on the differences and you and your mates can then have a debate on which one to lose
This is one thing I like about very small sessions - they will often allow you to break away from predictable sets. One particular frustration of mine is that there are certain tunes I love, which I dare not play, because I know they will inevitably be followed with something I really don't like - and in a couple of cases, even the people who felt duty bound to play the "full set" don't like all the tunes.
On a more positive note, I think there is a case for sometimes playing tunes that are similar together. Sometimes it can really tease the listeners and make them smile.
The longer you play the more intuitive you will be about what tunes will work together. Generally they need a similar lilt, or rhythmic structure, I feel. Especially in the case of reels and hornpipes. I find jigs mix quite easily in random groupings, but in my head there are some very different kinds of reels, espacially. Different degrees of swing suit them, for instance, and it can be rough in the extreme to lurch from one type to another.
As for what's the done thing - it will vary as you move from session to session. Just like everything else.
Many sessions will have developed their own preferred sets over the years that work well for them. Others, particularly where there may be a higher throughput of visiting musicians, will have mainly random sets. Some musicians are happier with the former (it's nice to know what's coming up next and also tune changes will be strong and perhaps even more interesting) while others would opt for the latter because of the added excitement of varied sets. However, it's no bad thing to have a few tunes in sets as once you know them you'll have no trouble mixing and matching and also when asked to start something you'll be ready to go.
Do what I say, not what I do. Perhaps Jackie was telling the students in his class that they should have a foundation of tunes; that they should learn them in their sets; that they should learn all of the tunes in those sets. After they have a body of tunes, they may then mix new tunes in tastefully.
It is useful to know Coleman sets or Kilfenora Ceili Band sets, or Doherty sets. I played a dance once with a couple of fellas out of my league. I remember distinctly one calling for the Tarbolton set, and my panicing because I wasn't sure what was in the set. Glady, I think I new all the tunes.
I would be the last to espouse playing the same old sets over and over. However, I think they have their uses. When gathering a group of people together that do not know each other, they can be a good place to start.
I am part of a group of musicians that routinely meet every week to play. A Session. There is a core of people in that group who will play out together at various functions. The group as a whole is loosely organized and the core group as well. Not everyone plays at every event. It is good for us to have some sets that we know immediately (St. Anne's and Fr. Kelly's is called the "holy set") for when we play out. At the session generally we mix things up. Pre-determined sets have their place but I wouldn't carve them in stone.
I was thinking about what has been said about how to put various tunes together. I recently had an experience. I was learning "Pride of Petravore" and was humming it as I worked and drove etc. I would finish humming it and would immediately go into another tune. I didn't know where it came from or what tune it was. It happened 100% of the time. I figured that was a good sign that the 2 tunes should be together. Oddly enough, the other tune was "Sally Gardens" the reel. "Pride" is a hornpipe but going into the reel gives it a real nice lift.
I agree with Rab C. There'a a lot you can do with similar sounding tunes in a set (change they key (D-G-D) or whatever...or tunes with different construction all in the same key...some of the more Scot-ie tunes work well in a set that eg starts in A, 2nd tune in Bb...then to F...you get the idea. The possibilities are endless. What starts with a few raised eyebrows can soon end up becoming part of the tradition.(*Not* a cue to start another thread about that one yet again!!!!)
Well, yes. Many tunes *are* played together in widely known and cherished combinations. But that doesn't mean they're *always* played that way. It's just that you'd be well advised to expect them in those combinations, or at least you shouldn't be surprised if a tune is followed by the usual suspects.
But neither should you be surprised (or annoyed) if a tune is NOT followed by the usual suspects. In other words, yes, the Tarbolton leads into Longford Collector and Sailor's Bonnet, *except when it doesn't.*
It was the "always" in Gary's initial post that stuck in my craw, and the notion that Daly was "very serious" about it. There's a big difference between being familiar with and ready for venerable sets that are widely played among experienced players, and rigidly adhering to them, "always."
P.S. I wasn't there, but my hunch is that Mr. Daly was passing on good advice to "less experienced" players. And "always" was his shorthand for "expect these combinations way more often than not."
Nearly all of the predictable sets I know of come from recordings--from Coleman, Morrison, Killoran, Seamus Ennis, Willie Clancy, the Chieftains, the Bothy Band, etc. Some of them are just damn fine sets, hard to improve on, and since "everyone" knows them, they're good ice breakers when you want to play something "everyone" can join in on. The trend continues today. Increasingly you'll hear sets at sessions from Altan, Lunasa, Patrick Street, etc., and from popular cds (Kevin Crawford's In Good Company comes to mind--lots of nice sets on that one, and I'm not surprised anymore when players repeat them at sessions).
To some people, knowing the old sets shows that you've made the effort to dig into the tradition--that you're not a complete newby. But as much as some people honor the old sets, other people look down on lifting sets right off recordings. Putting tunes together well is an art in itself, they argue, one a well-rounded musician should learn to be adept at, rather than relying on someone else's efforts. I guess I'm bisetsual--I can go either way.
Here the first newborn of the new year receives all sorts of gifts from the community. Maybe not such bad timing after all. Besides, planned, predictable sets can be boring....
Having "classic" sets always seems like a pitfall to me - sitting in a sesssion playing a tune and wondering whether they're going to play "the set" or not, but that may just be the paranoia of an inexperienced player.
We do tend to stick extremely similar tunes together when we're practicing, at least - we call them "triple dog dare sets". Where you have several tunes that are so similar that you always get confused in the midst trying to remember which B part you're supposed to be playing. But we do that partially for the craic, and partially for the practice in being able to tell the tunes apart. We don't, however, tend to do that in sessions
We currently have a joke about Crowley's Reels (as far as I know they're called Crowley's 1, and Crowley's 2). The joke is that they're "ALWAYS played together.... except when they're not..." And the subsequent question always arises "when are you going to get sick of that joke?", to which the reply is usually "we'll NEVER be sick of that joke... until we are..."
And one of my pet peeves is going to a session where the same old players are playing the same old sets every week with no variety.
Again thanks to all, some very interesting stuff there. Sets as I know them are not really the ones you find on cds and the likes as these will tend to be in reflection to the person or band that is doing the recording. In this situation most players will try and do something "new". I was really refering to the dance sets, the Connemara half set, the Kilfinora, the Monahan etc. These are played in the same way all the time and dancers expect this and just wondering how or why this is.
In sessions today in Ireland you have to expect the unexpected and hench learn a few more tunes as you can be playing anything from Sharon Shannon, LiZ Kane to 4 Men and a Dog sets. In a way it keeps it all a little bit more interesting.
But dance sets do not imply a fixed set of tunes.
Only the sequence of tune types is fixed (two jigs followed by two hornpipes followed by... whatever), but the musicians invariably vary the constituent tunes.
There is a lovely CD series of dance sets, "Set Dances of Ireland Vol 1-4" by Sיadna.
thanks Sixholes, What you say is true to an extent. But when you play a dance set like for example the corofin set which is made up of sets of jigs, reels, polkas which are know as formations, musicians tend to play the first jig formation with "out in the ocean, connaught mans rambles"and this has been the case as long as I remember. To the dancer it does not matter what jig is been played so long as that jig is in jig time.
My thinking around this is that at dances in times gone by there would be as many musicains as there were dances and to try and get the all playing the same tune was a task in itself. So a form or standard began with dance sets. my original thought on this was does anybody know of a store of these set on the net?
basically, find a session and stick with it and you'll learn where the sets go
however, i sometimes find some sessions very much closed with their own world - while others love the new comers and will help you know what the last tune was played and etc
Tune sets
Tune sets
Is there any website which covers not just Irish tunes, but also the sets of tunes you are most likely to play a particular tune with?
For example, certain jigs will always be played with other jigs and everybody knows this in a session. It seems to be an area of Irish music that never really receives any true justice or much attention. Where I live on the West coast of Ireland, the older players always Know exactly where they are going in a session, but the younger players always seem lost half way into a set.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by compaqjohn
Re: Tune sets
"Always"...really?
Sure there are some well known sets, but even those tunes get played with different tunes a fair amount. And so much depends on whose sets you learn. Lots of people still play the Coleman sets, but I've also heard West Clare players who tend more toward Crehan and Casey sets, northern players who follow Doherty sets, and so on.
Not that any of this helps. So...it never hurts to learn the sets from Coleman's records, and the Bothy Band, and sets from the Comholtas and Na Piobairi Uilleann books. For starters. And then be prepared for anyone to mix them up, add other tunes, etc.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Tune sets
This summer, at Catskill Irish Arts Week, Jackie Daly said more than once in his accordion class that certain tunes are always played together (e.g. Tripping Up The Stairs - Trip To Athlone; Boys of Tanderagee - Connaughtman's Rambles). It was obvious that he meant it very seriously. It was also obvious that it isn't true in the session world at large. It's probably very true locally, whatever that means in the global village.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: Tune sets
Apologies to the esteemed Mr. Daly, but I've routinely played those tunes without their alleged partners. If someone wants to limit themselves that way, and their session mates don't complain, well, fine. But I'd think the 500th time you swooped into Trip to Athlone out of Tripping Upstairs, someone might start nodding off....
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Tune sets
Ha ha, "the older players always know exactly where they are going," TGhere aint no substitute for being old.y
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by ...
Re: Tune sets
Yes, Will. So have we all. Maybe Jackie's point is that spur of the moment mix and match set construction is a relatively new phenomenon. I don't know for sure what he was trying to say, how literally or how universally he meant it, but that's what he said. Maybe his point is that tradition - things that are passed down over generations - includes not just tunes, but how tunes are combined, and it's local.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: Tune sets
My Goodness. What am I reading here? The gospel according to St. Jackie?
I sat with them (Daly, Crannitch and Co.) in Furlongs. I led a set on the whistle - a home made set which I've had around me for a couple of years, The Dublin Reel, The Monaghan Twig, then The Convenience. Eyebrows (of the aforementioned) were raised in interest at the lift going from one tune to the next. Appreciative applause followed. Now, my whistle playing is far from perfect, but those lads clapped because they enjoyed a good set. I've said this before and will now repeat. Nothing is written in stone. Getting a good set of tunes together is almost THE major avenue of creativity in this game. And the rules for constructing a good set of tunes are constantly being re-written.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Tune sets
BTW, I suspect Jackie Daly was just setting out some ground rules for what you *should* do if you wake up and find yourself beamed down into an alien session. If you play standard sets you won't get et.
And also, on the other hand, I'm not necessarily a fan of unplanned attacks on tunes - drifting from one tune to the next, 5 straight reels in G. No thanks. it's a skill on its own knowing when to lift up to A or drop down to D, for the next tune...PS..I'm still learning...
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Tune sets
thanks to all and some very good points indeed. I have on more than on occassion played with Jacky Daly and the rest of the North West Cork mafia and to be honest I don't recall any of them sticking to "written in stone" sets, Daly in particular will ramdomly switch between polka's at seconds notice. In Connemara, Galway, we tend to have no rules at all and will expect the unexpected all the time, we get a lot of players from clare, sligo and Cork and they seem to know what is happening around the corner even thought they usually don't know each other.
If at all the Coleman sets would be adhered to, probably because of our closeness to Sligo
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by compaqjohn
Re: Tune sets
compaqjohn,
If you check out the headers of the ABCs for the tunes you're interested in, you may well find notes on a set for them.
I've been trying to work up a few sets for newly learned tunes, and this is a good place to start.
And always remember to take a pen and paper with you to the session to write down the sets you plan to learn...
Eno
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by bc_box_player
Re: Tune sets
A partial answer to compaqjohn's question would be to look at the comments in the Tunes section of this site. People often report what other tunes they're used to play a tune with.
In the Joe Mooney summer school (Drumshanbo, co. Leitrim), I heard Méabh Ni Lochlainn talking about the construction of sets. She referred to certain style rules that good sets should adhere to, having to do with tunes "of a similar nature". As an example, she didn't like following "anything for John-Joe?" with "Heather Breezes".
I for one woule be quite interested to know if you feel you can formulate such "style rules" more precisely.
Another good advice that I heard is not to play two tunes in succession that are very similar. Besides sounding less interesting, this has the potential of making you (well, me, anyway) return by mistake to the first tune in the middle of the next, mixing A and B parts etc.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by sixholes
Re: Tune sets
But isn't it better to not play two tunes that are similar at all? What difference does it make if you play them back to back or an hour and a half a part? Choose one, the best one, and concine the other to the dust bin. If more people did this, then we'd start to lose the dreaded "all sounds the same" monicher.
But if you must play two tunes that sound the same, then it's better to play them back to back, that way you can hone in on the differences and you and your mates can then have a debate on which one to lose
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by ...
Re: Tune sets
Compaqjohn . . I was interested in the same question about tune sets, and some kind soul directed me to this . . http://members.cox.net/eskin/tunebook.html
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Justintime
Re: Tune sets
This is one thing I like about very small sessions - they will often allow you to break away from predictable sets. One particular frustration of mine is that there are certain tunes I love, which I dare not play, because I know they will inevitably be followed with something I really don't like - and in a couple of cases, even the people who felt duty bound to play the "full set" don't like all the tunes.
On a more positive note, I think there is a case for sometimes playing tunes that are similar together. Sometimes it can really tease the listeners and make them smile.
The longer you play the more intuitive you will be about what tunes will work together. Generally they need a similar lilt, or rhythmic structure, I feel. Especially in the case of reels and hornpipes. I find jigs mix quite easily in random groupings, but in my head there are some very different kinds of reels, espacially. Different degrees of swing suit them, for instance, and it can be rough in the extreme to lurch from one type to another.
As for what's the done thing - it will vary as you move from session to session. Just like everything else.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by kris
Re: Tune sets
Especially.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by kris
Re: Tune sets
Many sessions will have developed their own preferred sets over the years that work well for them. Others, particularly where there may be a higher throughput of visiting musicians, will have mainly random sets. Some musicians are happier with the former (it's nice to know what's coming up next and also tune changes will be strong and perhaps even more interesting) while others would opt for the latter because of the added excitement of varied sets. However, it's no bad thing to have a few tunes in sets as once you know them you'll have no trouble mixing and matching and also when asked to start something you'll be ready to go.
As regards locating sets the Comhaltas Foinn Seisiún Books (Book 1 also has an accompanying CD) are a good place to start. Details are given at http://www.comhaltas.com/seisiun/foinn.htm and http://www.comhaltas.com/seisiun/foinnCD.htm
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Bannerman
Re: Tune sets
Do what I say, not what I do. Perhaps Jackie was telling the students in his class that they should have a foundation of tunes; that they should learn them in their sets; that they should learn all of the tunes in those sets. After they have a body of tunes, they may then mix new tunes in tastefully.
It is useful to know Coleman sets or Kilfenora Ceili Band sets, or Doherty sets. I played a dance once with a couple of fellas out of my league. I remember distinctly one calling for the Tarbolton set, and my panicing because I wasn't sure what was in the set. Glady, I think I new all the tunes.
I would be the last to espouse playing the same old sets over and over. However, I think they have their uses. When gathering a group of people together that do not know each other, they can be a good place to start.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Jode
Re: Tune sets
I am part of a group of musicians that routinely meet every week to play. A Session. There is a core of people in that group who will play out together at various functions. The group as a whole is loosely organized and the core group as well. Not everyone plays at every event. It is good for us to have some sets that we know immediately (St. Anne's and Fr. Kelly's is called the "holy set") for when we play out. At the session generally we mix things up. Pre-determined sets have their place but I wouldn't carve them in stone.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by beacheroo
Re: Tune sets
I was thinking about what has been said about how to put various tunes together. I recently had an experience. I was learning "Pride of Petravore" and was humming it as I worked and drove etc. I would finish humming it and would immediately go into another tune. I didn't know where it came from or what tune it was. It happened 100% of the time. I figured that was a good sign that the 2 tunes should be together. Oddly enough, the other tune was "Sally Gardens" the reel. "Pride" is a hornpipe but going into the reel gives it a real nice lift.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by beacheroo
Re: Tune sets
I don't think Jackie ever said that certain tunes SHOULD always be played together; he said they ARE played together.
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: Tune sets
I agree with Rab C. There'a a lot you can do with similar sounding tunes in a set (change they key (D-G-D) or whatever...or tunes with different construction all in the same key...some of the more Scot-ie tunes work well in a set that eg starts in A, 2nd tune in Bb...then to F...you get the idea. The possibilities are endless. What starts with a few raised eyebrows can soon end up becoming part of the tradition.(*Not* a cue to start another thread about that one yet again!!!!)
Jamsie Cotter
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Tune sets
...and yes, I thought Jackie was just giving general advice about set combinations...
Jim
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Tune sets
...oh, and maybe Jackie just meant tunes&sets specifically for accordion...
Jim
# Posted on November 12th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Tune sets
Well, yes. Many tunes *are* played together in widely known and cherished combinations. But that doesn't mean they're *always* played that way. It's just that you'd be well advised to expect them in those combinations, or at least you shouldn't be surprised if a tune is followed by the usual suspects.
But neither should you be surprised (or annoyed) if a tune is NOT followed by the usual suspects. In other words, yes, the Tarbolton leads into Longford Collector and Sailor's Bonnet, *except when it doesn't.*
It was the "always" in Gary's initial post that stuck in my craw, and the notion that Daly was "very serious" about it. There's a big difference between being familiar with and ready for venerable sets that are widely played among experienced players, and rigidly adhering to them, "always."
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Tune sets
P.S. I wasn't there, but my hunch is that Mr. Daly was passing on good advice to "less experienced" players. And "always" was his shorthand for "expect these combinations way more often than not."
Nearly all of the predictable sets I know of come from recordings--from Coleman, Morrison, Killoran, Seamus Ennis, Willie Clancy, the Chieftains, the Bothy Band, etc. Some of them are just damn fine sets, hard to improve on, and since "everyone" knows them, they're good ice breakers when you want to play something "everyone" can join in on. The trend continues today. Increasingly you'll hear sets at sessions from Altan, Lunasa, Patrick Street, etc., and from popular cds (Kevin Crawford's In Good Company comes to mind--lots of nice sets on that one, and I'm not surprised anymore when players repeat them at sessions).
To some people, knowing the old sets shows that you've made the effort to dig into the tradition--that you're not a complete newby. But as much as some people honor the old sets, other people look down on lifting sets right off recordings. Putting tunes together well is an art in itself, they argue, one a well-rounded musician should learn to be adept at, rather than relying on someone else's efforts. I guess I'm bisetsual--I can go either way.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Tune sets
Heh, I've been known to have sets in a pub, in mixed company.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Tune sets
But the rhythm method is no guarrantee. Unprotected sets can lead to unforseen results.
(Congrats, btw, on your anticipated new wee one!
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Tune sets
Here the first newborn of the new year receives all sorts of gifts from the community. Maybe not such bad timing after all. Besides, planned, predictable sets can be boring....
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Tune sets
LOL Hugma wean.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Tune sets
Having "classic" sets always seems like a pitfall to me - sitting in a sesssion playing a tune and wondering whether they're going to play "the set" or not, but that may just be the paranoia of an inexperienced player.
We do tend to stick extremely similar tunes together when we're practicing, at least - we call them "triple dog dare sets". Where you have several tunes that are so similar that you always get confused in the midst trying to remember which B part you're supposed to be playing. But we do that partially for the craic, and partially for the practice in being able to tell the tunes apart. We don't, however, tend to do that in sessions
We currently have a joke about Crowley's Reels (as far as I know they're called Crowley's 1, and Crowley's 2). The joke is that they're "ALWAYS played together.... except when they're not..." And the subsequent question always arises "when are you going to get sick of that joke?", to which the reply is usually "we'll NEVER be sick of that joke... until we are..."
And one of my pet peeves is going to a session where the same old players are playing the same old sets every week with no variety.
Pete
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Reverend
Re: Tune sets
Again thanks to all, some very interesting stuff there. Sets as I know them are not really the ones you find on cds and the likes as these will tend to be in reflection to the person or band that is doing the recording. In this situation most players will try and do something "new". I was really refering to the dance sets, the Connemara half set, the Kilfinora, the Monahan etc. These are played in the same way all the time and dancers expect this and just wondering how or why this is.
In sessions today in Ireland you have to expect the unexpected and hench learn a few more tunes as you can be playing anything from Sharon Shannon, LiZ Kane to 4 Men and a Dog sets. In a way it keeps it all a little bit more interesting.
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by compaqjohn
Re: Tune sets
Och, well, the *dance* sets! Why didn't you say so?
# Posted on November 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Dance sets
But dance sets do not imply a fixed set of tunes.
Only the sequence of tune types is fixed (two jigs followed by two hornpipes followed by... whatever), but the musicians invariably vary the constituent tunes.
There is a lovely CD series of dance sets, "Set Dances of Ireland Vol 1-4" by Sיadna.
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by sixholes
Re: Tune sets
www.abacci.com/music
# Posted on November 14th 2004 by Folkie Junkie
Re: Tune sets
thanks Sixholes, What you say is true to an extent. But when you play a dance set like for example the corofin set which is made up of sets of jigs, reels, polkas which are know as formations, musicians tend to play the first jig formation with "out in the ocean, connaught mans rambles"and this has been the case as long as I remember. To the dancer it does not matter what jig is been played so long as that jig is in jig time.
My thinking around this is that at dances in times gone by there would be as many musicains as there were dances and to try and get the all playing the same tune was a task in itself. So a form or standard began with dance sets. my original thought on this was does anybody know of a store of these set on the net?
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by compaqjohn
Re: Tune sets
i think thats the problem that i often have...
basically, find a session and stick with it and you'll learn where the sets go
however, i sometimes find some sessions very much closed with their own world - while others love the new comers and will help you know what the last tune was played and etc
# Posted on November 15th 2004 by jimmyoats