I bought a Gibson TB100 banjo a while back on EBAY for $400 while living in the states. This is in excellent condition.
On arrival back to Ireland (8 months later) I saw the exact same Banjo (1927) for £1225... or 4+ times the price...WOW, what a difference.
I then bought a Paramount "C" for $600 and am afraid to price it here in Dublin.
Has anyone else come across similar price differences? Just curious
WOW you got a deal! Banjos do vary though. I'm still looking for "the one" hehe. I currently have a Langstile 1920's. But no one can really say what they are worth. I have seen many on e-bay I would love, but i'm worried that they wont feel right when i get them home. You need to spend a few days playing it before agreeing to buy one for that price. Did you find yours easy to play?
Although the prices you quote are no longer the current US values on those instruments, there is no question that if you want to buy a quality American made banjo, you have to come to the States to get the best price. You can do what one friend of mine does, have someone buy them for him and then he take them home when he comes here.
Used American made banjos, mandolins, and guitars are among the best bargains for the IRTrad crowd as long as you don't get an old Gibson banjo (by old I mean 1920s and '30's) or a Lloyd Loar Mandolin. For a thousand dollars or so (and the Euro is at $1.26 right now) you can get top of the line banjos in Vega, Paramount, Weymann, Leedy, Bacon and Day, and others. I know because I have done so and the bargains are still there.
Ebay is the best source for these instruments but the best buys are usually at smaller stores, you just have to find them. Of course that is true if you live in the States or have an agent. Buying a good banjo from overseas means that you will have to go to the on line dealers such as Bernunzio, Elderly Instruments, Gruhn, Spruce Tree Music, Vintage instruments (there are two of those), and others. These are the reliable dealers who sell exactly what they describe. If you are very well versed in banjos, you can buy off of ebay, but have to deal with the hassle of convincing the seller to send it to you without being charged an arm and a leg.
One of my favorite tricks 30 years ago was to fly to London with a Martin Guitar and sell it to pay for my trip because the price difference was so marked. It still is as far as I can tell.
Gruhn's is notoriously high priced, but no matter what you want they have it. I am an old electic guitar player and currently have 6 of them w/some experience in the trading market.
What Mike says is true - smaller stores in smaller towns are where to find bargains.
It is possible to save money by buying in the US and bring the instrument back with you into Ireland (I am guessing that we are talking about Ireland but the rule holds the same anywhere in the EU).
The bad news is that the tax people call this importing and the rule is that you should declare the goods on arrival and pay VAT (21% in Ireland). I believe that the chances of being stopped by customs/revenue at the airport are slim but you should know that you are on the wrong side of the law. Probably easier to explain a vintage bango or mandolin than a brand new instrument although the burden of proof is on you to prove that you are not importing so have your story ready (that last statement is probably a crime in itself so what I meant was - go looking for those customs guys and insist on making a contribution to the state).
If the items are sent to you from outside the EU through any postal or delivery system then you will almost certainly have the pay the VAT as this aspect has been privitised (to a Royal Mail subsidiary, I think) and they are very aggressive about collection of the VAT and their fee for administering the "import".
Remember don't blush as you walk through the green channel and don't take the thing out of its case to show your friends until you're well clear of the airport - oops another crime.
I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating in this context.
Three years ago my daughter, who was backpacking round the world, made her own didgeridoo at a workshop in Oz. Rather than carry it round East Asia for the remainder of her trip she shipped it to me in Bristol (UK). When it was delivered to my house the carrier required £49 in inport duty, which they had already paid, before they would hand it over. Although my daughter hadn't bought the didge in Oz she had put a notional value on it of, I think about £200 or so, for insurance purposes. This figure was apparently suggested by the tutor at the didge workshop and appeared on the shipping manifest. Hence the British import duty, which I had to pay because the parcel was addressed to me.
Now if she had sent it to her boyfriend's (now her husband) home in Belgium, as he did with the one he made, there apparently wouldn't have been any duty payable.
Her didge is now sitting in my house, gathering dust and spiders, and she's living in Belgium. Ah well, I suppose she'll collect it some time!
I suppose the old economic rule applies to everything...
supply and demand....
E-bay definitely is a great source....
If you gamble on getting an instrument that may or may not sound / feel good at time of purchase...
I lucked out, more so with the Paramount...
Happy bidding!!!
The only other thing to bear in mind when buying off ebay are the many scams that are in current operation. Such as contacting you after the end of a sale and saying the original bidder dropped out or offering a similar instrument etc. There have been some recent scams where the instrument doesn't even exist! So beware and if buying a high end instrument use an escrow system. Also check people's history ( how many transactions they have done, clearly the better the feedback the safer), that having been said I bought a really nice national tricone for a really good price partly because the vendor had no history. I used an escrow system and that gave me the confidence that it would arrive as described, which it did.
A useful adage with all of these things is , if it looks too good to be true it probably is! Asvice on using small dealers is definitely good, they will at least pack and despatch properly and are not necessarily more expensive (I just picked up a very nice Vega Tubaphone from a dealer for 550 quid)
All the above having been said, another point to consider is that Amercian tenors were created for jazz playing and not all of them make the cross over to picking and a GDAE tuning as happily as they might. So although the prices are seductive I would still suggest to try before you buy - the money you save on a good banjo could still pay for you to have a free air ticket to a great holiday states side.
One final point is that when you do get it home, you will need to set it up properly as it will almost certainly not be set up for traditional style playing. Depending on the condition of the instrument this could add to the cost, especially if it needs a refret which the 1920s ones often do.
My experience buying old banjos (1920s/30/s vintage non Gibsons) has been that frets are not the problem. Most of the instruments were either not used that much or were used by professionals who would refret them. The bigger problem has been the necks which are warped. This rarely happens with 17 fret banjos, probably because the 17 fret banjo neck is the same diameter and shorter and it is stronger.
As far as setup goes, I gave a URL in an earlier message that tells what to do, it is not brain surgery. Just google "banjo setup" and you will come across a number of bluegrass banjo sites that tell all or go to www.banjohangout.org and get the information from the best setup people in the world.
BTW, I will be in Kerry in March if anyone wants me to transport a banjo from the States for them
While none of the individual aspects of banjo set up are that hard in themselves, I think that achieving the perfect set up can be pretty exhausting. Not least because it can be very instrument specific.
The many thousands of words that have been written about everything from bridge thickness to air chamber tuning, head materials and tailpiece tension are a case in point.
All I was trying to express is that a vintage banjo bought in the US is unlikely to be at its best for irish style straight out of the case ). Some people like to tinker with their instruments and others may need to take it to a professional to sort out set up problems. That is just a cost that may need to be factored in is all.
Instrument prices, cross countries.
Instrument prices, cross countries.
I bought a Gibson TB100 banjo a while back on EBAY for $400 while living in the states. This is in excellent condition.
On arrival back to Ireland (8 months later) I saw the exact same Banjo (1927) for £1225... or 4+ times the price...WOW, what a difference.
I then bought a Paramount "C" for $600 and am afraid to price it here in Dublin.
Has anyone else come across similar price differences? Just curious
# Posted on November 2nd 2004 by Eoino
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
WOW you got a deal! Banjos do vary though. I'm still looking for "the one" hehe. I currently have a Langstile 1920's. But no one can really say what they are worth. I have seen many on e-bay I would love, but i'm worried that they wont feel right when i get them home. You need to spend a few days playing it before agreeing to buy one for that price. Did you find yours easy to play?
# Posted on November 2nd 2004 by Trad Girl
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
Both surprised me....
Th Paramount tho.... felt like I gave birth to it!!
Hard as it was, me being male... (-:
Big weight difference between both.
1 has arch other has tone ring, as you would appreciate
# Posted on November 2nd 2004 by Eoino
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
Eoino,
Although the prices you quote are no longer the current US values on those instruments, there is no question that if you want to buy a quality American made banjo, you have to come to the States to get the best price. You can do what one friend of mine does, have someone buy them for him and then he take them home when he comes here.
Used American made banjos, mandolins, and guitars are among the best bargains for the IRTrad crowd as long as you don't get an old Gibson banjo (by old I mean 1920s and '30's) or a Lloyd Loar Mandolin. For a thousand dollars or so (and the Euro is at $1.26 right now) you can get top of the line banjos in Vega, Paramount, Weymann, Leedy, Bacon and Day, and others. I know because I have done so and the bargains are still there.
Ebay is the best source for these instruments but the best buys are usually at smaller stores, you just have to find them. Of course that is true if you live in the States or have an agent. Buying a good banjo from overseas means that you will have to go to the on line dealers such as Bernunzio, Elderly Instruments, Gruhn, Spruce Tree Music, Vintage instruments (there are two of those), and others. These are the reliable dealers who sell exactly what they describe. If you are very well versed in banjos, you can buy off of ebay, but have to deal with the hassle of convincing the seller to send it to you without being charged an arm and a leg.
One of my favorite tricks 30 years ago was to fly to London with a Martin Guitar and sell it to pay for my trip because the price difference was so marked. It still is as far as I can tell.
Mike Keyes
# Posted on November 2nd 2004 by mikeyes
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
Ooo, what a great idea, Mike!
# Posted on November 2nd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
Current exchange rate is .785 Euros to the dollar ... or US$1.27 for 1 Euro.
So... get your American goods while the exchange rate is in your favo(u)r.
Buy American!
# Posted on November 3rd 2004 by mconners
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
Gruhn's is notoriously high priced, but no matter what you want they have it. I am an old electic guitar player and currently have 6 of them w/some experience in the trading market.
What Mike says is true - smaller stores in smaller towns are where to find bargains.
A suggestion for you fiddle players out there: http://www.efiddles.com
# Posted on November 3rd 2004 by mconners
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
It is possible to save money by buying in the US and bring the instrument back with you into Ireland (I am guessing that we are talking about Ireland but the rule holds the same anywhere in the EU).
The bad news is that the tax people call this importing and the rule is that you should declare the goods on arrival and pay VAT (21% in Ireland). I believe that the chances of being stopped by customs/revenue at the airport are slim but you should know that you are on the wrong side of the law. Probably easier to explain a vintage bango or mandolin than a brand new instrument although the burden of proof is on you to prove that you are not importing so have your story ready (that last statement is probably a crime in itself so what I meant was - go looking for those customs guys and insist on making a contribution to the state).
If the items are sent to you from outside the EU through any postal or delivery system then you will almost certainly have the pay the VAT as this aspect has been privitised (to a Royal Mail subsidiary, I think) and they are very aggressive about collection of the VAT and their fee for administering the "import".
Remember don't blush as you walk through the green channel and don't take the thing out of its case to show your friends until you're well clear of the airport - oops another crime.
# Posted on November 3rd 2004 by Cuso
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating in this context.
Three years ago my daughter, who was backpacking round the world, made her own didgeridoo at a workshop in Oz. Rather than carry it round East Asia for the remainder of her trip she shipped it to me in Bristol (UK). When it was delivered to my house the carrier required £49 in inport duty, which they had already paid, before they would hand it over. Although my daughter hadn't bought the didge in Oz she had put a notional value on it of, I think about £200 or so, for insurance purposes. This figure was apparently suggested by the tutor at the didge workshop and appeared on the shipping manifest. Hence the British import duty, which I had to pay because the parcel was addressed to me.
Now if she had sent it to her boyfriend's (now her husband) home in Belgium, as he did with the one he made, there apparently wouldn't have been any duty payable.
Her didge is now sitting in my house, gathering dust and spiders, and she's living in Belgium. Ah well, I suppose she'll collect it some time!
Trevor
# Posted on November 3rd 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
I suppose the old economic rule applies to everything...
supply and demand....
E-bay definitely is a great source....
If you gamble on getting an instrument that may or may not sound / feel good at time of purchase...
I lucked out, more so with the Paramount...
Happy bidding!!!
# Posted on November 3rd 2004 by Eoino
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
The only other thing to bear in mind when buying off ebay are the many scams that are in current operation. Such as contacting you after the end of a sale and saying the original bidder dropped out or offering a similar instrument etc. There have been some recent scams where the instrument doesn't even exist! So beware and if buying a high end instrument use an escrow system. Also check people's history ( how many transactions they have done, clearly the better the feedback the safer), that having been said I bought a really nice national tricone for a really good price partly because the vendor had no history. I used an escrow system and that gave me the confidence that it would arrive as described, which it did.
A useful adage with all of these things is , if it looks too good to be true it probably is! Asvice on using small dealers is definitely good, they will at least pack and despatch properly and are not necessarily more expensive (I just picked up a very nice Vega Tubaphone from a dealer for 550 quid)
All the above having been said, another point to consider is that Amercian tenors were created for jazz playing and not all of them make the cross over to picking and a GDAE tuning as happily as they might. So although the prices are seductive I would still suggest to try before you buy - the money you save on a good banjo could still pay for you to have a free air ticket to a great holiday states side.
One final point is that when you do get it home, you will need to set it up properly as it will almost certainly not be set up for traditional style playing. Depending on the condition of the instrument this could add to the cost, especially if it needs a refret which the 1920s ones often do.
Happy hunting
# Posted on November 3rd 2004 by nick b
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
My experience buying old banjos (1920s/30/s vintage non Gibsons) has been that frets are not the problem. Most of the instruments were either not used that much or were used by professionals who would refret them. The bigger problem has been the necks which are warped. This rarely happens with 17 fret banjos, probably because the 17 fret banjo neck is the same diameter and shorter and it is stronger.
As far as setup goes, I gave a URL in an earlier message that tells what to do, it is not brain surgery. Just google "banjo setup" and you will come across a number of bluegrass banjo sites that tell all or go to www.banjohangout.org and get the information from the best setup people in the world.
BTW, I will be in Kerry in March if anyone wants me to transport a banjo from the States for them
Mike Keyes
# Posted on November 4th 2004 by mikeyes
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
Mike...
that's a very nice gesture..
Thank you
# Posted on November 5th 2004 by Eoino
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
While none of the individual aspects of banjo set up are that hard in themselves, I think that achieving the perfect set up can be pretty exhausting. Not least because it can be very instrument specific.
). Some people like to tinker with their instruments and others may need to take it to a professional to sort out set up problems. That is just a cost that may need to be factored in is all.
The many thousands of words that have been written about everything from bridge thickness to air chamber tuning, head materials and tailpiece tension are a case in point.
All I was trying to express is that a vintage banjo bought in the US is unlikely to be at its best for irish style straight out of the case
# Posted on November 5th 2004 by nick b
Re: Instrument prices, cross countries.
nick....
Thanks for offering to bring over instruments from the States is what I was referring to..
Eoin
# Posted on November 6th 2004 by Eoino