I'm still at the "woodshedding" stage of learning the mandolin, and recently began working out with a metronome, to figure out just how fast (or slow) I was playing. After I got over my horror at discovering all the places I'd start phrases a fraction of a beat too early, I'm fairly pleased with how it's going. However, I have a question.
"A big point to remember - NEVER SPEED UP OR SLOW DOWN! The tempo (speed), once set by the musician who started that tune set, should never vary or falter until that set is over. Only when that set is done can another set of different tempo be done. I have listened to about 100 hours of session on tape, and most sessions seem to be played, for both reels and jigs, at a metronome range of 108 to 124 beats per minute, with 114 the most common."
My question is exactly how this is measured.
If I set my metronome to, say, 120, and then play a reel with all the downbeats on a beat, is that the tempo I'm attaining?
ie, I'm picking each bar dudu dudu. If every "d" is on a tick, is that how it's counted?
I suppose what I'm describing is a quarter note = 120. Is that what the author means?
I agree, a metrenome can be usefull to neaten up your phrasing but it's the wrong tool for a beginner. You need to start right out to learn to play with a decent groove. Metronomes arn't groovy.
Hi S1m0n,for reels you have to remember that they are usually notated in "Cut Time" that is to say that though they're written in 4/4 they're really in 2/4. This means that if you enter them in a sequencer in 4/4 the above tempos must be doubled so try using 220 ish.
There are some traditional sets played in this area (Manchester) which have a tempo increase built in and part of the fun is seeing who makes it to the end. These are fairly rare but I think some sets do change tempo slightly as the level of excitement grows.
I think the point is not to "Force" the pace but to go with the flow and surrender to the collective vibe.
As Pied Piper was saying, 108-124 bpm refers to half notes - two per bar. For a typical AABB tune with 8 bars per part, once through should take between 31 and 36 seconds.
As Henk was saying, jigs tend to go a bit faster. They can, since there's only 3/4 as many notes per beat. But to my ears, they work best when they aren't rushed, which is to say in the 108-124 range.
I attended (and taped) a concert in which Jack & Jimmy Coen (flute/guitar) performed, and also Willie & Siobhan Kelly (fiddle/flute). The jigs *never* budge from 108. I'm serious. They are LOCKED IN!!! It sounds GORGEOUS. I don't remember the tempo of the reels, sorry.
Agreed, Michael. But I suspect that the vast majority of session players would sound better playing jigs at 108-116 than at 120-132.
And, again, it's in the ear of the listener, too. I recently heard Teada in concert, and, despite them being great musicians, I found their tempos to be absurdly fast (on many - not all - of the tunes). In contrast, I've heard Liz Carroll, Tommy Peoples, and Liz Doherty play that fast and make it seem just right. I wouldn't say Teada was playing badly, just that you have to be better than just plain great to pull it off at that speed.
Simon, get yourself a guitar player. It's worth shelling out the dough. Not a cheap, crap-o made-in-tiawan guitar player, but a finely honed, precision guitar player. The kind they would manufacture in Germany or Italy. I think I saw one for sale on e-bay. There's no better tool for keeping your tempo in line. Some of them come with an automatic pull-string voice module which repeats "you were speeding up in that last tune," at the end of every set.
Actually, in a stunning reversal of the usual pattern, I used to have bodhran player (since traded-in) who was a dancer/choreographer in civilian life, and who had an internal timekeeper of atomic clock calibre.
Metronomes and tempo
Metronomes and tempo
I'm still at the "woodshedding" stage of learning the mandolin, and recently began working out with a metronome, to figure out just how fast (or slow) I was playing. After I got over my horror at discovering all the places I'd start phrases a fraction of a beat too early, I'm fairly pleased with how it's going. However, I have a question.
This session ettiquette article (http://www.c7r.com/sessionbook/etiquette.html) make the following observation:
"A big point to remember - NEVER SPEED UP OR SLOW DOWN! The tempo (speed), once set by the musician who started that tune set, should never vary or falter until that set is over. Only when that set is done can another set of different tempo be done. I have listened to about 100 hours of session on tape, and most sessions seem to be played, for both reels and jigs, at a metronome range of 108 to 124 beats per minute, with 114 the most common."
My question is exactly how this is measured.
If I set my metronome to, say, 120, and then play a reel with all the downbeats on a beat, is that the tempo I'm attaining?
ie, I'm picking each bar dudu dudu. If every "d" is on a tick, is that how it's counted?
I suppose what I'm describing is a quarter note = 120. Is that what the author means?
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by s1m0n
Re: Metronomes and tempo
I'd try and play along in a slow session or along with CD's rather than a metronome.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by BegF
Re: Metronomes and tempo
I agree, a metrenome can be usefull to neaten up your phrasing but it's the wrong tool for a beginner. You need to start right out to learn to play with a decent groove. Metronomes arn't groovy.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by ...
Re: Metronomes and tempo
What you need is a groovanome, or possibly a nyah-o-nator. I think Dow may have some in stock. Hey Dow, what was that gizmo called again?
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by Q
Re: Metronomes and tempo
Hi S1m0n,for reels you have to remember that they are usually notated in "Cut Time" that is to say that though they're written in 4/4 they're really in 2/4. This means that if you enter them in a sequencer in 4/4 the above tempos must be doubled so try using 220 ish.
There are some traditional sets played in this area (Manchester) which have a tempo increase built in and part of the fun is seeing who makes it to the end. These are fairly rare but I think some sets do change tempo slightly as the level of excitement grows.
I think the point is not to "Force" the pace but to go with the flow and surrender to the collective vibe.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: Metronomes and tempo
114 beats per minute as the average for jigs seems slow to me ....
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by Henk Bos
Re: Metronomes and tempo
nyah-o-nator! LMAO!
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by meemtp
Re: Metronomes and tempo
As Pied Piper was saying, 108-124 bpm refers to half notes - two per bar. For a typical AABB tune with 8 bars per part, once through should take between 31 and 36 seconds.
As Henk was saying, jigs tend to go a bit faster. They can, since there's only 3/4 as many notes per beat. But to my ears, they work best when they aren't rushed, which is to say in the 108-124 range.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: Metronomes and tempo
But remember, "rushed" is a style of playing badly, and bares little resemblance to the actual speed you play
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by ...
Re: Metronomes and tempo
I attended (and taped) a concert in which Jack & Jimmy Coen (flute/guitar) performed, and also Willie & Siobhan Kelly (fiddle/flute). The jigs *never* budge from 108. I'm serious. They are LOCKED IN!!! It sounds GORGEOUS. I don't remember the tempo of the reels, sorry.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by browndog
Re: Metronomes and tempo
bkessler, yeah I've seen the Coen's also, great playing.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by Test
Re: Metronomes and tempo
Agreed, Michael. But I suspect that the vast majority of session players would sound better playing jigs at 108-116 than at 120-132.
And, again, it's in the ear of the listener, too. I recently heard Teada in concert, and, despite them being great musicians, I found their tempos to be absurdly fast (on many - not all - of the tunes). In contrast, I've heard Liz Carroll, Tommy Peoples, and Liz Doherty play that fast and make it seem just right. I wouldn't say Teada was playing badly, just that you have to be better than just plain great to pull it off at that speed.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: Metronomes and tempo
Thanks everyone for the feedback--120 the way I was trying to play it sounded awfully stately, so I knew I had something wrong.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by s1m0n
Re: Metronomes and tempo
metronome: urban dwarf
# Posted on October 22nd 2004 by bt
Re: Metronomes and tempo
I don't know about the rest of you guys but my metronome seems to speed up and slow down when I practice
# Posted on October 22nd 2004 by I_Fel
Re: Metronomes and tempo
Simon, get yourself a guitar player. It's worth shelling out the dough. Not a cheap, crap-o made-in-tiawan guitar player, but a finely honed, precision guitar player. The kind they would manufacture in Germany or Italy. I think I saw one for sale on e-bay. There's no better tool for keeping your tempo in line. Some of them come with an automatic pull-string voice module which repeats "you were speeding up in that last tune," at the end of every set.
# Posted on October 22nd 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Metronomes and tempo
Q, I think that thing Dow had was a Tune Purity Screening Device (TPSD).
# Posted on October 22nd 2004 by Tish
Re: Metronomes and tempo
"Simon, get yourself a guitar player...."
Actually, in a stunning reversal of the usual pattern, I used to have bodhran player (since traded-in) who was a dancer/choreographer in civilian life, and who had an internal timekeeper of atomic clock calibre.
However, she operated in much the same way.
# Posted on October 22nd 2004 by s1m0n