I have noticed amongst all the folks at various sessions (including this one) that some people can take folk music very seriously. I know that to some people it may seem as if they depend on it, but I entered a somewhat light hearted thread before and someone bit my head off, saying music is a serious business. I go to a specialist music school in Manchester and think that it is unnecessary. Music is entertainment and shouldn't be taken ridiculously seriously like is sometimes is. Is folk music a serious sport or not?
Hey JimBob - what exactly was said, and in response to what? I went to your page and did a little history search but didn't find it, but maybe I didn't look closely and thoroughly enough.
For those folks who's 'life depends on it', well, that is serious stuff and they need to 'get a life', to ease up, take a step back, see a shrink. If we take the folks who carried this tradition that you and I are now caught up in, a 'part' of, however we got there, they weren't musicians, singers or dancer first. There was a lot more going on in their lives than an addiction to music and/or dance. It was something extra in an already rich life, rich with family, friends, community and responsibilities. Music and dance were that extra bit of seasoning in their lives, appreciated and very welcome, but not the meat and potatoes, at least for most of those I was lucky to have shared time with, the 'healthy' ones.
There have always been the 'obsessive' folks, there's just more of them nowadays. Maybe it is one of those 'modern' illnesses? Let's just say, fortunate as I have been to have taken on at least some of the spirit of those I've known and respected, that it has never been first about the music or the dance, but about the community around both, the 'craic', the social interactions, even the occassional slagging. But there are some really tightly strung folk who've caught that bug second hand, say from recordings and books, or from similarly tightly wired folk, and they just don't know any better. Have patience with such people, and don't let it ruin you or wind you tightly up. But hey, I can talk, I've let it get to me at times.
You and I are just afloat on that sea of trad, each distinct. We can dip in and out of it as we please, but let's not drown in it, there are other things to be glad of in our lives. Play with it, but don't lose the humour that was and is inherent in this particular seasoning and too easily lost to those obsessed with it and dependant on it like a junkie. They tend to be very posessive too, like it is their special relationship and they deserve some extra consideration or respect for that. There are both crap players and some hot shots caught up in that addiction. What I find sad is how powerful their influence can be - to the detriment of the very nature of these traditions I've grown to love and appreciate, that loving welcome and patience that first drew me to it and that was so generously given. If I was put to the test and told I could be the best musician in the world and an egotistical asshole - or - I could be armless and useless with an instrument but a generally nice person, I'd take the later.
Jimbob - (a serious reply) if you examine the arguments that happen on this site, they're mostly about manners and opinions about good and bad session behavior, rather than being about the music. We all agree the music is very enjoyable -- that's why we love it, but the seriousness is all about the problems we encounter when we share it in public settings. Like anything else that involves humans, they will have clashing ideas about what does or doesn't work. Any topic, no matter how light it might be in its nature, is subject to human controversies. Welcome to planet Earth.
Skippin' those flat stones and keeping close to the shore, avoiding that deep stuff, after all, this is a caldera we're talking about isn't it? Bloody hell - bubbles!
I like that. Swishing my feet in a mountain lake of trad. Suits me fine. Especially if I get to catch the odd minnow of trad in my butterfly net of trad and watch it swim around in my trad bucket.
There's a whole list of medications listed in a previous thread that can be taken as well to help soften the serious nature of this place. I've personally been prescribed 'fiddelin', a type of 'riddelin' only it's specifically for violin players. Very serious stuff... supposedly it will help me chill out.
Don't trust him Jack, it is probably a wind-up, using a casting rod and reel, a light line and one of those flourescent flies. The old man is losin' it. You do know he's only a step away from '60'...
Jack? Let's make mincemeat out of Jimmy's barndance, eh? Actually James, I've a load of old barndances knocking around here and I might be able to find you a name or an early source. Always willing...
Jim, not sure if you're still here or if you got my email. I wrote out that lament in F if you want it. Er...or maybe you can just play it from ear in F? anyways,I've gotitifyawantit. - mike
haha, i think all these responses show how unserious it can be!
some people maybe do take it too seriously, but o well. i get ancy if i dont play the flute for a day, but i like to think i don take it too seriously. i am passionate about the music (and all music) and i love it to death, and want to get better, and play with more people, and sometimes i play anywhere from 15 to 20 hours a week, but i am not elitist or anything about it. some people dont like silver flutes, well thats what i play, and i cant afford a wooden flute. if i got one, i would learn how to play it, and i would love it more than my silver flute at first, but then i would learn to appreciate the benefits of both. i think irish music on the saxophone is fun. and bodhrans are cool. haha, but just because i do doesnt mean everyone else does.
i dont believe getting too serious into anything is very fun. because thats how wars and arguments start. haha. do something, enjoy it, and even if you spend most of your time doing it, understand that its not life, is what i say.
i used to watch tv more than i play flute now, and i'm glad i stopped that. i think its better to "waste" my time with music than with tv, because after 5 hours of watching tv you feel crappy, but after 5 hours of music, you say, "ohhh, only 5 hours, i just started!". and as i always say, my addiction to the flute only SEEMS healthy.
Good discussion topic, Jimbob. I have noticed that a lot of people define who they are through ITM and through playing in pubs - and for some reason, it does generate some really weird behaviour and attitudes.
I used to define myself that way too - difficult job, unappreciative boss, felt isolated from colleagues, but what the heck, I played bouzouki every wednesday - until I met my wife to be. She is a professional (classical) musician and gently pointed out what you have said.
At the moment, I play mostly with friends in houses. The youngest player in one regular group is 9, then, 12, 18 and up to 49. We're just having fun, and the music making is fitted in between tree climbing, football and washing up after lunch.
The answer to your question, then? Playing any kind of music is worth making a commitment to; playing music that is part of a living folk tradition can put us in touch with our forefathers; the best playing with others comes from being open and sharing. Personally, I prefer to socialise with people who radiate and are fun to be with. The music's important, the community is important, the people don't need to be serious.
I speak as a hobby player, of course; but the professional musicians I know (classical) seem to fit this - their profession is a profound pursuit for them, they are comitted and professional, and not serious.
What's it like at Chets? My nephew just left St Mary's Music School in edinburgh and there was a girl in his year studying Clarsach and (I think) fiddle. I coud never figure if being at a classical school worked for her (never asked her though...)
It's alister again - the point I *meant* to make (doh!) about the session with the 9-49 age range is that playing with the kids (and a couple of new grown up arrivals) is brilliant because we can watch them light up as they discover what the music holds; and also light up when one of the other wee ones comes in and drags them off to climb a tree. Puts it in perspective.
Human beings ... Not everyone is going to share your particular perspective on the music.
"Yer man there's a great player all the same, but he takes it very serious! Look at the oul gob on him and the wrinkles in his oul forrid. The same man ud damn near bite the head aff ye if ye called a tune by the wrong name. Up all night reading the tune books and listenin' to RnaG and makin' notes and writin' oul blather on the intramanet. And practisin' like billy-o! Jayz, ye can har'ly walk next his house for the scrapin' and flailin' at all hours! This stuff's me life-blood, says he. I'd shrivel like a cut flower if I couldn't get at the tunes. I'd sooner hang myself aff the Kesh Bridge than not have the oul' fiddle to han' and have half a thousand tunes in my fingers ready for it!"
"Yer man there's a great player all the same, but he doesn't take it serious enough! Just breezes through the oul' tunes. Doesn't even know the names of half of them, let alone what damn county they come from. Never practises, they tell me, from one session to the next. Loves to go on the oul' intramanet and take a han' out o' all thon academic types batterin' away at the oul' kays, writin' rames o' rubbish about the music! Sure it's only a few tunes, he says, a way of passin' the time; gets ye out of the house and keeps ye from thinkin'long."
If someone wants to be serious about the music, good on them. If someone doesn't, fair enough ... there's no laws.
It amn't the way you's takes it, but how you spread it about -
To take that old hat, 'each to his own', except when you're blowing smoke in my face and expecting me to take it your way, that's when 'serious' is also 'intrusive' and 'overbearing'. So the ol' fart who slaves away can take his drugs as he pleases, but if this means getting oppressively dogmatic about the name of or the way of a tune, like those sorts who say there is only one way with 'Drowsy Maggie', that is the kind of serious intrusion that can spoil if for others, and has for me at times, even knowing their talkin' shight. Those who take it in their stride, as a bit of a hobby, are OK, they don't usually expect the same from everyone else, but also tend to appreciate those who make more effort, tend to know the difference, despite your given stereotype. Now, those that a cack and don't know it, who don't think their shight stinks, who even hold themselves in great esteem, despite others not seeing their light, that's another kind of seriousness, one that expects 'respect' without actually earning it, and who impose their 'playing' on the scene. So, "yer man" - depends on whether or not their presence takes away the rights of others for a good time. And if they are that sort - they can bloody well go hand themselves off the Kesh bridge...
But surely, ceolachan, we're on another tack here, altogether? What's emerging is that it isn't so much whether someone takes the music seriously that's the issue for you, it's whether they have ill-informed (possibly even deliberately controversial?) but nevertheless dogmatic views on the music which they like to impose on other players?
I could go along with that, no bother. No-one likes rubbing up that sort of well-read-but-ill-bred, curmudgeonly, controversialist type of character for too long.
However I have a lot of respect for the individual who takes his or her playing seriously and makes it his or her life's work to learn, to enquire, to steep themselves in the music, its associated literature, oral history, etc. Nothing wrong with that and if, from time to time they are able to share some scraps of that knowledge with others (i.e. as opposed to rubbing people's noses in their own lack of such knowledge), then I for one am grateful to them.
Similarly I have a lot of respect for the character who doesn't know, or care for that matter, very much about the music's "wraparound". He or she just wants to play a few tunes and maybe have a bit of a gaunch, a few pints and a bit of carry-on. No sweat, at all! Away ye go, and more power to you!
To "gaunch" in Ireland, Northern Ireland particularly, is a dialect phrase for to talk(can imply that it's not particularly high-minded talking). Derived from the Irish "ag caint" (talking). But like a lot of these derivations, adapts to the grammar of English and can be used as a verb or noun ...
e.g. "Myself and the big lad were having a bit of a gaunch"
"He was gaunchin' away and never even seen yer man givin' him a quare slinge up the cooter."
"Pay no heed to yer man, son dear, sure he's damn all but an oul' gaunch."
Opps, cross-posted with Conán. See you've got some of the Norn Irn crew on thesession (both right handy gaunches - or gaunchers - ourselves!) fascinated!
I'm glad Aidan mentioned he respects people for taking the music very seriously. I guess I would fall into that category. But isn't it great to be passionate about something in life? I'm always looking out for music buddies who shares the same passion for playing and learning the Music.
I have some really great people I play the Music with in Vermont. But I'm always on the look-out for a fiddle or box player that is also passionate and *focuses* on Irish Traditional Music: Someone who strives to get better, someone who immerses them self in the Music, someone who listens to the older Music, someone who is enthusiastic about learning new tunes, someone who has the *time* and energy to devote to the Music, someone who will go to festivals, sessions outside of Vermont & travel to Ireland. If you are out there, please please send me a message, even if you live outside of Vermont. Wow, that sounds like a desperate personal ad but hey, if it reaches one person, I'd be happy.
Actually, I take _sport_ seriously -- I'm a long-suffering Boston Red Sox fan, after all. In fact, the night they lost Game 7 of the 1986 World Series, I was at my favorite session (the lamentably departed Village Coach House, in Brookline Village, Mass.). I'd gone there because I couldn't take the stress of rooting for them any more -- not after the wretchedness of Game 6 -- and wanted to simply escape into some tunes.
So, of course, the pub had the game on a big screen TV. I had to make sure I was sitting where I couldn't see it.
Just caught this thread! Don't take people who take things seriously, seriously!
I went to Chetham's too, back in the 60s in the days before you had to be a prodigy to get in! It is where I started to learn the violin (and then fiddle) so they have a lot to answer for. Is the food still as bad as it was then?
"Gaunch" over here refers to a guy's smelly underpants. Which casts a whole new light on the phrase ("Myself and the big lad were having a bit of a gaunch"...)
Oh and me and my friends were convinced that u were being serious, SL*. Sorry my mistake. D'oh. You should go on trigger happy TV and trick more people.
Sorry, didn't mean to fool you and your mates, Jimbob. Though I cannot help being a little bit amused that I did.I'm a bit of a rebellious teenager at heart and was using the Responses thread as a license to generate "controversy". A bit childish of me perhaps, but no real harm was meant.
Yeah! - I should clarify, it is when you are being 'serious' toward another, not about whether you take your passion 'seriously', meaning for yourself and not being projected on another or your notions of how things should be being imposed. Speaking of 'serious', I have a 'serious' case of that myself. I think that is one of the good things about talking around these things, looking for personal demons. When I criticize, it is my own worst failings that I am best able to talk about. There are times when my own seriousness has ruined a good time for me, not anyone else necessarily...and that can even just be down to how I practice. I know one piper who was so obsessed, and damned good, and he recorded, and he ended up with RSI (Repetitive Strain/Stress Injury) he was so damned serious and obsessed with it all. I've seen 'serious' become something that lodges in the muscles and causes serious physical pain. I've also seen folks who've damn near risked a humour labotamy they were that serious about their 'art'. It is semantics, about meaning, and that must be another of those damned Latin roots, full of connotations... I do think, I know, you can be 'serious' and still keep the humour alive, but sometimes you do need to check yourself, at least I do...and welcome it when someone else catches me out - at least eventually...
On the subject of sports and sarcathletes, the sort I cheer onwards, I still have to find what it was you said SL*, but good on you for getting us all rolling.
The trick I think is that we choose to be 'fans' and not 'hooligans' in our 'seriousness'. Oops, I think I may have failed there already. Jim, Jack, Mark, Kerri, are we hooligans? Where's that empty bottle of Chimay, I've and urge to crown somebody...
Oh my!!! No no no. I'm married!!! That was not my intention of the post. I'm *just* looking for other people like myself to play music with, not sleep with
Seriously, if I was single, I don't think it would be a problem finding a man who loves the Music
I'm still laughing. However, it would be sooo nice to meet another musican (friendship only!!!) who's new to the Music, yet passionate, likes to party, travel and all that fun stuff. Emily totally fits this bill, but she lives 10 hours away by car. I wish there was someone like Emily in Vermont or sorta close by....
I was putting Heather Breeze after Corney is Coming for serious reasons -- because they go together nicely -- not for a laugh! I swear, some people just don't take this music seriously enough.
Jack, did I read that you are going to Sligo in Nov? Whereabouts? We just booked tickets for the week of Thanksgiving! I don't know if we will make it out of the north though. We hope to make it to Sligo next summer.
Sorry Joyce and Jack, the Chimay has gone to my head, literally. OW! I couldn't find anyone to hooliganize, definitely not my sweet wife, and took it out on myself, still frustrated over microtones and ABCs...
Serious sport?
Serious sport?
I have noticed amongst all the folks at various sessions (including this one) that some people can take folk music very seriously. I know that to some people it may seem as if they depend on it, but I entered a somewhat light hearted thread before and someone bit my head off, saying music is a serious business. I go to a specialist music school in Manchester and think that it is unnecessary. Music is entertainment and shouldn't be taken ridiculously seriously like is sometimes is. Is folk music a serious sport or not?
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by jimbob
Re: Serious sport?
The person who said that was being facetious. Maybe you're taking her a little too seriously.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Serious sport?
I seriously disagree.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
What else is new?
;^)
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Kerri Brown
'Serious' and a 'sport'?
Hey JimBob - what exactly was said, and in response to what? I went to your page and did a little history search but didn't find it, but maybe I didn't look closely and thoroughly enough.
For those folks who's 'life depends on it', well, that is serious stuff and they need to 'get a life', to ease up, take a step back, see a shrink. If we take the folks who carried this tradition that you and I are now caught up in, a 'part' of, however we got there, they weren't musicians, singers or dancer first. There was a lot more going on in their lives than an addiction to music and/or dance. It was something extra in an already rich life, rich with family, friends, community and responsibilities. Music and dance were that extra bit of seasoning in their lives, appreciated and very welcome, but not the meat and potatoes, at least for most of those I was lucky to have shared time with, the 'healthy' ones.
There have always been the 'obsessive' folks, there's just more of them nowadays. Maybe it is one of those 'modern' illnesses? Let's just say, fortunate as I have been to have taken on at least some of the spirit of those I've known and respected, that it has never been first about the music or the dance, but about the community around both, the 'craic', the social interactions, even the occassional slagging. But there are some really tightly strung folk who've caught that bug second hand, say from recordings and books, or from similarly tightly wired folk, and they just don't know any better. Have patience with such people, and don't let it ruin you or wind you tightly up. But hey, I can talk, I've let it get to me at times.
You and I are just afloat on that sea of trad, each distinct. We can dip in and out of it as we please, but let's not drown in it, there are other things to be glad of in our lives. Play with it, but don't lose the humour that was and is inherent in this particular seasoning and too easily lost to those obsessed with it and dependant on it like a junkie. They tend to be very posessive too, like it is their special relationship and they deserve some extra consideration or respect for that. There are both crap players and some hot shots caught up in that addiction. What I find sad is how powerful their influence can be - to the detriment of the very nature of these traditions I've grown to love and appreciate, that loving welcome and patience that first drew me to it and that was so generously given. If I was put to the test and told I could be the best musician in the world and an egotistical asshole - or - I could be armless and useless with an instrument but a generally nice person, I'd take the later.
Pretty serious stuff eh?
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
"Floating on a sea" of trad? I thought we were "tossing pebbles into a pond" of trad.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Serious sport?
Jimbob - (a serious reply) if you examine the arguments that happen on this site, they're mostly about manners and opinions about good and bad session behavior, rather than being about the music. We all agree the music is very enjoyable -- that's why we love it, but the seriousness is all about the problems we encounter when we share it in public settings. Like anything else that involves humans, they will have clashing ideas about what does or doesn't work. Any topic, no matter how light it might be in its nature, is subject to human controversies. Welcome to planet Earth.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
I think you were swishing your feet in the pond, Kerri.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Skippin' those flat stones and keeping close to the shore, avoiding that deep stuff, after all, this is a caldera we're talking about isn't it? Bloody hell - bubbles!
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
You're a kind soul Jack!
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
I like that. Swishing my feet in a mountain lake of trad. Suits me fine. Especially if I get to catch the odd minnow of trad in my butterfly net of trad and watch it swim around in my trad bucket.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Serious sport?
There's a whole list of medications listed in a previous thread that can be taken as well to help soften the serious nature of this place. I've personally been prescribed 'fiddelin', a type of 'riddelin' only it's specifically for violin players. Very serious stuff... supposedly it will help me chill out.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by c_ya
Re: Serious sport?
That's so deep and insightful, Jimmy.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Hey Kerri, try putting your trad bucket over your head when you play a tune -- it'll sound real cool like.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
That's cool, Jimmy. I think our proverbial pool is shallow too actually.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
You mean it's not a bottomless pit?
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Minnows, shminnows, I want a trad steelhead...or one of those giant trad catfish...
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
I hope to hell it isn't that thing you sent me Jimmy. The software hasn't been the same since I fed that to it. Talk about ripe bait, phew!
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Where did you get the barndance Jimmy?
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Serious sport?
Jimmy! Get your finger - - - - HEY! "SLAP>SLAP, SLAP>SLAP"...
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Don't trust him Jack, it is probably a wind-up, using a casting rod and reel, a light line and one of those flourescent flies. The old man is losin' it. You do know he's only a step away from '60'...
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious retort?
I did notice his bait was getting long in the tooth.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Yeah, I'm here, and it's late...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Jack? Let's make mincemeat out of Jimmy's barndance, eh? Actually James, I've a load of old barndances knocking around here and I might be able to find you a name or an early source. Always willing...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Jim, not sure if you're still here or if you got my email. I wrote out that lament in F if you want it. Er...or maybe you can just play it from ear in F? anyways,I've gotitifyawantit. - mike
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by c_ya
Re: Serious spot!
He's gone beddy'byes Mike. I'm heading for a soak myself. What lament in 'F'. I'm feeling a bit lamentably this evening, may be just the pill I need.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Possum up a gum stump...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Get to bed Jimmy, it's damned late for you, and you need your beauty sleep, look at you - you've been missing too much of that and its showing...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Got your mid and abcs Jimmy... nice tune. You want me to submit it? I need a name of course, or should I just call it "Senile Old Fisherman"?
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
haha, i think all these responses show how unserious it can be!
some people maybe do take it too seriously, but o well. i get ancy if i dont play the flute for a day, but i like to think i don take it too seriously. i am passionate about the music (and all music) and i love it to death, and want to get better, and play with more people, and sometimes i play anywhere from 15 to 20 hours a week, but i am not elitist or anything about it. some people dont like silver flutes, well thats what i play, and i cant afford a wooden flute. if i got one, i would learn how to play it, and i would love it more than my silver flute at first, but then i would learn to appreciate the benefits of both. i think irish music on the saxophone is fun. and bodhrans are cool. haha, but just because i do doesnt mean everyone else does.
i dont believe getting too serious into anything is very fun. because thats how wars and arguments start. haha. do something, enjoy it, and even if you spend most of your time doing it, understand that its not life, is what i say.
i used to watch tv more than i play flute now, and i'm glad i stopped that. i think its better to "waste" my time with music than with tv, because after 5 hours of watching tv you feel crappy, but after 5 hours of music, you say, "ohhh, only 5 hours, i just started!". and as i always say, my addiction to the flute only SEEMS healthy.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by daiv
That's a healthy passion, not an addiction...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Good discussion topic, Jimbob. I have noticed that a lot of people define who they are through ITM and through playing in pubs - and for some reason, it does generate some really weird behaviour and attitudes.
I used to define myself that way too - difficult job, unappreciative boss, felt isolated from colleagues, but what the heck, I played bouzouki every wednesday - until I met my wife to be. She is a professional (classical) musician and gently pointed out what you have said.
At the moment, I play mostly with friends in houses. The youngest player in one regular group is 9, then, 12, 18 and up to 49. We're just having fun, and the music making is fitted in between tree climbing, football and washing up after lunch.
The answer to your question, then? Playing any kind of music is worth making a commitment to; playing music that is part of a living folk tradition can put us in touch with our forefathers; the best playing with others comes from being open and sharing. Personally, I prefer to socialise with people who radiate and are fun to be with. The music's important, the community is important, the people don't need to be serious.
I speak as a hobby player, of course; but the professional musicians I know (classical) seem to fit this - their profession is a profound pursuit for them, they are comitted and professional, and not serious.
What's it like at Chets? My nephew just left St Mary's Music School in edinburgh and there was a girl in his year studying Clarsach and (I think) fiddle. I coud never figure if being at a classical school worked for her (never asked her though...)
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Alister
Re: Serious sport?
It's alister again - the point I *meant* to make (doh!) about the session with the 9-49 age range is that playing with the kids (and a couple of new grown up arrivals) is brilliant because we can watch them light up as they discover what the music holds; and also light up when one of the other wee ones comes in and drags them off to climb a tree. Puts it in perspective.
And, of course, we're handing something on.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Alister
Re: Serious sport?
I really really hope that this thread isn't in reponse to what I said in the "Responses" thread!
Because er.....that was that was complete and utter sarcasm.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by SL*
Re: Serious sport?
Human beings ... Not everyone is going to share your particular perspective on the music.
"Yer man there's a great player all the same, but he takes it very serious! Look at the oul gob on him and the wrinkles in his oul forrid. The same man ud damn near bite the head aff ye if ye called a tune by the wrong name. Up all night reading the tune books and listenin' to RnaG and makin' notes and writin' oul blather on the intramanet. And practisin' like billy-o! Jayz, ye can har'ly walk next his house for the scrapin' and flailin' at all hours! This stuff's me life-blood, says he. I'd shrivel like a cut flower if I couldn't get at the tunes. I'd sooner hang myself aff the Kesh Bridge than not have the oul' fiddle to han' and have half a thousand tunes in my fingers ready for it!"
"Yer man there's a great player all the same, but he doesn't take it serious enough! Just breezes through the oul' tunes. Doesn't even know the names of half of them, let alone what damn county they come from. Never practises, they tell me, from one session to the next. Loves to go on the oul' intramanet and take a han' out o' all thon academic types batterin' away at the oul' kays, writin' rames o' rubbish about the music! Sure it's only a few tunes, he says, a way of passin' the time; gets ye out of the house and keeps ye from thinkin'long."
If someone wants to be serious about the music, good on them. If someone doesn't, fair enough ... there's no laws.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
"Peach Blossoms" - there you go Jimmy
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/3469
I got your midi, nice version...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
It amn't the way you's takes it, but how you spread it about -
To take that old hat, 'each to his own', except when you're blowing smoke in my face and expecting me to take it your way, that's when 'serious' is also 'intrusive' and 'overbearing'. So the ol' fart who slaves away can take his drugs as he pleases, but if this means getting oppressively dogmatic about the name of or the way of a tune, like those sorts who say there is only one way with 'Drowsy Maggie', that is the kind of serious intrusion that can spoil if for others, and has for me at times, even knowing their talkin' shight. Those who take it in their stride, as a bit of a hobby, are OK, they don't usually expect the same from everyone else, but also tend to appreciate those who make more effort, tend to know the difference, despite your given stereotype. Now, those that a cack and don't know it, who don't think their shight stinks, who even hold themselves in great esteem, despite others not seeing their light, that's another kind of seriousness, one that expects 'respect' without actually earning it, and who impose their 'playing' on the scene. So, "yer man" - depends on whether or not their presence takes away the rights of others for a good time. And if they are that sort - they can bloody well go hand themselves off the Kesh bridge...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
But surely, ceolachan, we're on another tack here, altogether? What's emerging is that it isn't so much whether someone takes the music seriously that's the issue for you, it's whether they have ill-informed (possibly even deliberately controversial?) but nevertheless dogmatic views on the music which they like to impose on other players?
I could go along with that, no bother. No-one likes rubbing up that sort of well-read-but-ill-bred, curmudgeonly, controversialist type of character for too long.
However I have a lot of respect for the individual who takes his or her playing seriously and makes it his or her life's work to learn, to enquire, to steep themselves in the music, its associated literature, oral history, etc. Nothing wrong with that and if, from time to time they are able to share some scraps of that knowledge with others (i.e. as opposed to rubbing people's noses in their own lack of such knowledge), then I for one am grateful to them.
Similarly I have a lot of respect for the character who doesn't know, or care for that matter, very much about the music's "wraparound". He or she just wants to play a few tunes and maybe have a bit of a gaunch, a few pints and a bit of carry-on. No sweat, at all! Away ye go, and more power to you!
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Serious sport?
Maybe "gaunch" doesn't mean the same thing over here as it does over there...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Serious sport?
What does it mean over there? Sounds interesting.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Serious sport?
To "gaunch" in Ireland, Northern Ireland particularly, is a dialect phrase for to talk(can imply that it's not particularly high-minded talking). Derived from the Irish "ag caint" (talking). But like a lot of these derivations, adapts to the grammar of English and can be used as a verb or noun ...
e.g. "Myself and the big lad were having a bit of a gaunch"
"He was gaunchin' away and never even seen yer man givin' him a quare slinge up the cooter."
"Pay no heed to yer man, son dear, sure he's damn all but an oul' gaunch."
etc.
What does gaunch mean in foreign places?
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Serious sport?
Opps, cross-posted with Conán. See you've got some of the Norn Irn crew on thesession (both right handy gaunches - or gaunchers - ourselves!) fascinated!
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Serious sport?
I'm going out on a limb here:
I'm glad Aidan mentioned he respects people for taking the music very seriously. I guess I would fall into that category. But isn't it great to be passionate about something in life? I'm always looking out for music buddies who shares the same passion for playing and learning the Music.
I have some really great people I play the Music with in Vermont. But I'm always on the look-out for a fiddle or box player that is also passionate and *focuses* on Irish Traditional Music: Someone who strives to get better, someone who immerses them self in the Music, someone who listens to the older Music, someone who is enthusiastic about learning new tunes, someone who has the *time* and energy to devote to the Music, someone who will go to festivals, sessions outside of Vermont & travel to Ireland. If you are out there, please please send me a message, even if you live outside of Vermont. Wow, that sounds like a desperate personal ad but hey, if it reaches one person, I'd be happy.
Yours shamelessly,
Joyce in Vermont
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Re: Serious sport?
Actually, I take _sport_ seriously -- I'm a long-suffering Boston Red Sox fan, after all. In fact, the night they lost Game 7 of the 1986 World Series, I was at my favorite session (the lamentably departed Village Coach House, in Brookline Village, Mass.). I'd gone there because I couldn't take the stress of rooting for them any more -- not after the wretchedness of Game 6 -- and wanted to simply escape into some tunes.
So, of course, the pub had the game on a big screen TV. I had to make sure I was sitting where I couldn't see it.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by sts
Re: Serious sport?
Hey Jimbob
Just caught this thread! Don't take people who take things seriously, seriously!
I went to Chetham's too, back in the 60s in the days before you had to be a prodigy to get in! It is where I started to learn the violin (and then fiddle) so they have a lot to answer for. Is the food still as bad as it was then?
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Serious sport?
"Gaunch" over here refers to a guy's smelly underpants. Which casts a whole new light on the phrase ("Myself and the big lad were having a bit of a gaunch"...)
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Serious sport?
O the food at chethams rocks
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by jimbob
Re: Serious sport?
Oh and me and my friends were convinced that u were being serious, SL*. Sorry my mistake. D'oh. You should go on trigger happy TV and trick more people.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by jimbob
Re: Serious sport?
*grin*
Sorry, didn't mean to fool you and your mates, Jimbob. Though I cannot help being a little bit amused that I did.I'm a bit of a rebellious teenager at heart and was using the Responses thread as a license to generate "controversy". A bit childish of me perhaps, but no real harm was meant.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by SL*
Re: Serious sport?
SL, I spotted your ploy right away. We need more sarcathletes in the controversy generation game. Keep up the good work!
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Serious sport?
(raises hand and waves frantically) Over here Joyce -- I'm your man! (grinning pathetically)
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
DITTO Aidan! - We're in agreement - - -
Yeah! - I should clarify, it is when you are being 'serious' toward another, not about whether you take your passion 'seriously', meaning for yourself and not being projected on another or your notions of how things should be being imposed. Speaking of 'serious', I have a 'serious' case of that myself. I think that is one of the good things about talking around these things, looking for personal demons. When I criticize, it is my own worst failings that I am best able to talk about. There are times when my own seriousness has ruined a good time for me, not anyone else necessarily...and that can even just be down to how I practice. I know one piper who was so obsessed, and damned good, and he recorded, and he ended up with RSI (Repetitive Strain/Stress Injury) he was so damned serious and obsessed with it all. I've seen 'serious' become something that lodges in the muscles and causes serious physical pain. I've also seen folks who've damn near risked a humour labotamy they were that serious about their 'art'. It is semantics, about meaning, and that must be another of those damned Latin roots, full of connotations... I do think, I know, you can be 'serious' and still keep the humour alive, but sometimes you do need to check yourself, at least I do...and welcome it when someone else catches me out - at least eventually...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Hi Jack! Too bad you live 3,200 miles away
But I do hope we get a chance to have a tune in Ennis!
Joyce
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Don't bite Joyce, he's married!
On the subject of sports and sarcathletes, the sort I cheer onwards, I still have to find what it was you said SL*, but good on you for getting us all rolling.
The trick I think is that we choose to be 'fans' and not 'hooligans' in our 'seriousness'. Oops, I think I may have failed there already. Jim, Jack, Mark, Kerri, are we hooligans? Where's that empty bottle of Chimay, I've and urge to crown somebody...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
I'm sure we will, Joyce. You'll be able to spot me easily -- I'll be the big hairy ogre sitting at the bar taking it all way too seriously.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Correction: I'll be the big hairy hooligan.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Ceolcachan already asked me to marry him.
I had to turn him down of course.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Has the world flipped? Joyce, are you actually having trouble finding a man that is passionate about ITM?
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Jode
Re: Serious sport?
Oh my!!! No no no. I'm married!!! That was not my intention of the post. I'm *just* looking for other people like myself to play music with, not sleep with
Seriously, if I was single, I don't think it would be a problem finding a man who loves the Music
LOL....
Joyce
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Re: Serious sport?
I knew that Joyce, pay no attention to ceolachan -- he's very lonely you see... poor fella.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
I'm still laughing. However, it would be sooo nice to meet another musican (friendship only!!!) who's new to the Music, yet passionate, likes to party, travel and all that fun stuff. Emily totally fits this bill, but she lives 10 hours away by car. I wish there was someone like Emily in Vermont or sorta close by....
Joyce
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Re: Serious sport?
You mean.... *snif snif* I don't "fit the bill"? whaaaaaaaah! *gulp*
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
forgot to spellcheck my last post..duh...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Re: Serious sport?
Yes, you do Jack
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Re: Serious sport?
(wiping tears) thanks Joyce.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: but seriously...
Ok... back to playing Heather Breeze after Corney is Coming.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
I play sometimes play Corney is Coming with Roaring Mary. I think that's so funny, but half the time no one get's it...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Re: Serious sport?
Back to the budgets and spreadsheets...
But I will duck out of here soon: My famous Friday disappearing act
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by JMH
Re: Serious sport?
I was putting Heather Breeze after Corney is Coming for serious reasons -- because they go together nicely -- not for a laugh! I swear, some people just don't take this music seriously enough.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Ah, the world is coming back into focus now. I too am happily married, and to a lovely whistle player. But it took a long time to find her!
Jack, if you ever have the opportunity, ask Dermott Byrne for his version of Heather Breeze. And send me a tape!
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Jode
Re: Serious sport?
Not the version on his recording, by the way. He's got more!
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Jode
Re: Serious sport?
Jode, didn't Dermot record his version?
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Cross posting -- doncha love it?
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Cross posting and ESP?
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Jode
Re: Serious sport?
Actually -- I like the way Andrew MacNamara plays it. It echos the B part of Corney is Coming. (not done for a laugh of course)
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Serious sport?
Jack, did I read that you are going to Sligo in Nov? Whereabouts? We just booked tickets for the week of Thanksgiving! I don't know if we will make it out of the north though. We hope to make it to Sligo next summer.
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Jode
Re: Serial sport - - -
Sorry Joyce and Jack, the Chimay has gone to my head, literally. OW! I couldn't find anyone to hooliganize, definitely not my sweet wife, and took it out on myself, still frustrated over microtones and ABCs...
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: Serious sport?
Jode -- I'll be in Ennis on Thanksbutwearetakingitawayfromyou day
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by Phantom Button