Hi Everyone,
I thought to post this here since I realise that there are quite a handfull of fiddlers here. I'm mostly a fluter and a whistler and recently has decided to try my hand at fiddling. I'm no stranger to the music but the instrument is a totally foreign instrument to me, and I'm at a lost of what to do.
My situation is that I do not have any local fiddlers to show me or teach me anything. What I do have available are classical violin teachers. (who mostly do the suzuki thing and have never heard of Irish music let alone fiddling)
So any advice on how I should go about approaching this? Should I even carry on doing the fiddle with the hopes of one day being more than decent? I'm finding this hard! So far I've only managed to scratch out pothole of the kelp on the thing.. and very badly at that.
I'd opt for lessons at least. My fiddle teacher was classically trained,, but she plays old-timey american string band music as well. Best thing I was taught was how to count...
I agree. Lessons will help you develop the tone, bowing etc. Once you have the basics of how to play it's a case of listening to the style you want to develop. You could always try the on-line trad lessons.
I agree with I_Fel that a teacher/mentor would be enormously helpful with an instrument that is "totally foreign" to you. It's so easy to develop bad habits that will be extremely diffucult to correct later one. A good teacher (classical or otherwise) can provide you with basic mechanics, proper fingering and scale patterns that you'll be able to incorporate into everything you do, no matter what style you're playing.
To help focus specifically on ITM, take some advice from those Suzuki teahcers - listen, listen, listen to the music you want to be playing. I brainwash myself listening to the same pieces over and over again until I can mimic the sound I'm hearing on my fiddle. In the beginning it took a long time to pick up tunes by ear this way but it has gotten much easier over time. Now, I prefer to learn everything by ear.
If books are your thing, Mel Bay has some great books with accompanying CDs that I found helpful as some of the beginner CDs have slow versions of tunes. http://www.melbay.com
Good Luck!
There's instructional videos you can order online. I know there's one of Kevin Burke for example. Obviously it's not as good as having the teacher sitting right there but probably better than nothing if you have no alternatives.
Hi, thanks for the replies so far. I do intend to take a couple violin lessons in a weeks time or so, just to help with the positioning and stuff like that. Is there anything I should inform the teacher specifically in order to get what's best for me as a fiddler? Also are there any unanimously recommended resources/tutors I can use to progress from after these violin lessons? (Seems like just about any uillean piper would recommend NPU videos and Heather Clarke's book for distance learners of the upipe. Anything like that for the fiddle?)
Any other general advice for a fluter turned fiddler-wannabe would be welcome!
It sounds like the net would be your best resource. Also I would echo the above comments about taking lessons-my teacher first emphasized classical methods-holding the fiddle, "levels" of the arm while playing, tuning. Small things that make an enormous difference. Don't start with bad habits! Also the videos. Mel Bay has a book with CD by Seamus Connolly and Lauren Martin with session tunes-both excellent teachers. Classical teachers will be lost as to "playing by ear" which is the Irish tradition, but don't let them talk you out of it. Take their suggestions on the basics and listen. listen, listen to the music. Get the patterns of the tunes down. Slow them down and take them on a little at a time. This is what any ITM teacher would do.
Sounds like you are getting good advice. Be honest with your suzuki teacher and tell the teacher what you want to do. Really, you need to learn how to hold the violin and bow, how to tune it by ear, how to find all the notes and how to get a good tone out of the bow.
And always remember as you progress that you need to keep in tune with how you are holding the instrument. Pain is a good indicator that you are doing something wrong.
I've never seen the videos or instruction booklets. Workshops are a fairly popular way to accomplish instruction goals. That way, you can do it in person. But the biggest advice is to listen to music, both on recordings and whenever you can listen to live music. Educate your ear, and that will take you a long, long way.
Definitely find a teacher. I started the fiddle by myself, and have spent several hard years going back and relearning. I don't think that it matters if the teacher is into fiddle or not if you are a beginner. Holding the instrument and getting the bowing right make so much difference!
Although I mainly play traditional scottish and gaelic music, it has also been of great benefit to practice scales and arpeggios as well.The tonalization exercises in the Suzuki books are great for listening and intonation.
The school fiddle teacher here uses the suzuki books along with teaching the traditional tunes.
Good luck, it's been so much more fun learning as an adult.
The Suzuki method is about learning by ear as much as it is about learning by notes. Many of the beginning tunes are traditional tunes, not necessarily Irish but traditional all the same. Because you already play other instruments, the learning curve is fairly short, once you learn where the scale is.... oh then you have to learn how to use the bow.. 10 years later, I'm still trying. I also started as a flute player (strictly classical). Played classical guitar as well. True love was folk music and then celtic music. Decided one day I could play the fiddle but didn't get anywhere until I tooke some lessons. Fortunately for me, the teacher I found taught only Irish... life just hasn't been the same since.
Go for the lessons. I've been playing (self taught) for a long time but just in the last 3 weeks started lessons. I'm kicking myself for not going sooner. I can already see a difference in intonation from the bowing exercises. I am however having a very difficult time breaking some bad habits I've taught myself. I print music from this site and we use it for my lessons. I'm starting with airs and waltzes. Best part is I'm having a blast.
Mary
I disagree with the folks who are advising you to go ahead with classical training if you can't find a fiddler in your area. Unless your teacher is unusually open-minded, flexible and well-rounded he/she will teach you what he/she knows: how to play classical music. That isn't what you want to learn. Read old archived threads here if you have questions about technique, and check out this online ITM school: http://www.scoiltrad.com/
I've never had a music teacher who charged less than twenty dollars a lesson. I didn't do Scoiltrad, but it comes highly recommended by people I know. Certainly it's a better idea than taking classical lessons when you want to play ITM. That would be like taking kayaking lessons when you want to learn how to sail.
What do y'all think of Dale Russ's tutoring video? Is it worth the money?
Make sure your fiddle is setup to play easily. Lots of info here on that and related subjects too.
I came across Paul McNevin's Irish Fiddle for absolute beginners video as well as book/CD. It was recommended by Phil Varlet on Fiddle-L for being better for someone learning from scratch, as the Dale Russ one requires some prior knowledge of the instrument. Does anyone else have any opinions on McNevin's video or book/CD?
I've recently migrated to the fiddle from the mandolin - I think I'm making progress, and I found Paul McNevin's book and cd invaluable. It starts right at the beginning, and the tune selection and the settings are very useful. I've also got the Matt Cranitch book and use it a lot - many excellent tunes for beginners (though I know polkas have to be taken up to proper speed to sound right, they are good beginners practice played fairly moderately). I've recently bought the Sean Keane 50 fiddle solos with accompanying cd - wow! that is absolutely a gem! I've played the cd over and over again and it is really special IMHO! It takes you on a stage. I'm self-taught but I'm too old to worry about picking up bad habits - I'm just enjoying letting rip with the music (not sure if the neighbours agree)
The one caveat I'd give about getting lessons from an instructor that's not a fiddler is this: Most "violin" techniques are geared towards music that frequnetly goes into 2nd and 3rd positions on the fiddle. Almost all ITM is played in the first position. So, you won't want to waste time learning those positions unless you want to paly other music, and also classical technique as far as positioning your fiddle goes etc. isn't neccessarily all pertinent to ITM. Many classical players hold the fiddle in a way that facilitates access to the upper positions. In my experience, havin the fiddle in such a position is a bit less comfortable that most ITM players and other fiddlers tend to use. Perhaps that's one reason that Classical players have a higher incidence of injuries than fiddlers!
Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
Hi Everyone,
I thought to post this here since I realise that there are quite a handfull of fiddlers here. I'm mostly a fluter and a whistler and recently has decided to try my hand at fiddling. I'm no stranger to the music but the instrument is a totally foreign instrument to me, and I'm at a lost of what to do.
My situation is that I do not have any local fiddlers to show me or teach me anything. What I do have available are classical violin teachers. (who mostly do the suzuki thing and have never heard of Irish music let alone fiddling)
So any advice on how I should go about approaching this? Should I even carry on doing the fiddle with the hopes of one day being more than decent? I'm finding this hard! So far I've only managed to scratch out pothole of the kelp on the thing.. and very badly at that.
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by Eldarion
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
I'd opt for lessons at least. My fiddle teacher was classically trained,, but she plays old-timey american string band music as well. Best thing I was taught was how to count...
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
I agree. Lessons will help you develop the tone, bowing etc. Once you have the basics of how to play it's a case of listening to the style you want to develop. You could always try the on-line trad lessons.
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by Tarrantella
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
I agree with I_Fel that a teacher/mentor would be enormously helpful with an instrument that is "totally foreign" to you. It's so easy to develop bad habits that will be extremely diffucult to correct later one. A good teacher (classical or otherwise) can provide you with basic mechanics, proper fingering and scale patterns that you'll be able to incorporate into everything you do, no matter what style you're playing.
To help focus specifically on ITM, take some advice from those Suzuki teahcers - listen, listen, listen to the music you want to be playing. I brainwash myself listening to the same pieces over and over again until I can mimic the sound I'm hearing on my fiddle. In the beginning it took a long time to pick up tunes by ear this way but it has gotten much easier over time. Now, I prefer to learn everything by ear.
If books are your thing, Mel Bay has some great books with accompanying CDs that I found helpful as some of the beginner CDs have slow versions of tunes.
http://www.melbay.com
Good Luck!
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by winterhawk
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
There's instructional videos you can order online. I know there's one of Kevin Burke for example. Obviously it's not as good as having the teacher sitting right there but probably better than nothing if you have no alternatives.
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by Test
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
Hi, thanks for the replies so far. I do intend to take a couple violin lessons in a weeks time or so, just to help with the positioning and stuff like that. Is there anything I should inform the teacher specifically in order to get what's best for me as a fiddler? Also are there any unanimously recommended resources/tutors I can use to progress from after these violin lessons? (Seems like just about any uillean piper would recommend NPU videos and Heather Clarke's book for distance learners of the upipe. Anything like that for the fiddle?)
Any other general advice for a fluter turned fiddler-wannabe would be welcome!
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by Eldarion
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
It sounds like the net would be your best resource. Also I would echo the above comments about taking lessons-my teacher first emphasized classical methods-holding the fiddle, "levels" of the arm while playing, tuning. Small things that make an enormous difference. Don't start with bad habits! Also the videos. Mel Bay has a book with CD by Seamus Connolly and Lauren Martin with session tunes-both excellent teachers. Classical teachers will be lost as to "playing by ear" which is the Irish tradition, but don't let them talk you out of it. Take their suggestions on the basics and listen. listen, listen to the music. Get the patterns of the tunes down. Slow them down and take them on a little at a time. This is what any ITM teacher would do.
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by devilselbow
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
as far as reccommended home tutors go check out homespuntapes.com they're generally very good
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
Sounds like you are getting good advice. Be honest with your suzuki teacher and tell the teacher what you want to do. Really, you need to learn how to hold the violin and bow, how to tune it by ear, how to find all the notes and how to get a good tone out of the bow.
And always remember as you progress that you need to keep in tune with how you are holding the instrument. Pain is a good indicator that you are doing something wrong.
I've never seen the videos or instruction booklets. Workshops are a fairly popular way to accomplish instruction goals. That way, you can do it in person. But the biggest advice is to listen to music, both on recordings and whenever you can listen to live music. Educate your ear, and that will take you a long, long way.
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by Jode
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
Definitely find a teacher. I started the fiddle by myself, and have spent several hard years going back and relearning. I don't think that it matters if the teacher is into fiddle or not if you are a beginner. Holding the instrument and getting the bowing right make so much difference!
Although I mainly play traditional scottish and gaelic music, it has also been of great benefit to practice scales and arpeggios as well.The tonalization exercises in the Suzuki books are great for listening and intonation.
The school fiddle teacher here uses the suzuki books along with teaching the traditional tunes.
Good luck, it's been so much more fun learning as an adult.
# Posted on September 28th 2004 by gummidge
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
The Suzuki method is about learning by ear as much as it is about learning by notes. Many of the beginning tunes are traditional tunes, not necessarily Irish but traditional all the same. Because you already play other instruments, the learning curve is fairly short, once you learn where the scale is.... oh then you have to learn how to use the bow.. 10 years later, I'm still trying. I also started as a flute player (strictly classical). Played classical guitar as well. True love was folk music and then celtic music. Decided one day I could play the fiddle but didn't get anywhere until I tooke some lessons. Fortunately for me, the teacher I found taught only Irish... life just hasn't been the same since.
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by ANNY
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
Go for the lessons. I've been playing (self taught) for a long time but just in the last 3 weeks started lessons. I'm kicking myself for not going sooner. I can already see a difference in intonation from the bowing exercises. I am however having a very difficult time breaking some bad habits I've taught myself. I print music from this site and we use it for my lessons. I'm starting with airs and waltzes. Best part is I'm having a blast.
Mary
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by Antikhntr
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
I disagree with the folks who are advising you to go ahead with classical training if you can't find a fiddler in your area. Unless your teacher is unusually open-minded, flexible and well-rounded he/she will teach you what he/she knows: how to play classical music. That isn't what you want to learn. Read old archived threads here if you have questions about technique, and check out this online ITM school:
http://www.scoiltrad.com/
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
that ITM school looks horrid. $20 for a single lesson which teaches a single song on tinwhistle? better off to just get a real teacher at that rate!
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
or, for that matter, a homespun tapes Irish whistle tutor.
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
I've never had a music teacher who charged less than twenty dollars a lesson. I didn't do Scoiltrad, but it comes highly recommended by people I know. Certainly it's a better idea than taking classical lessons when you want to play ITM. That would be like taking kayaking lessons when you want to learn how to sail.
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
What do y'all think of Dale Russ's tutoring video? Is it worth the money?
Make sure your fiddle is setup to play easily. Lots of info here on that and related subjects too.
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by KLR
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
Kevin ??? Is that you?? Ten-hup!!!!!
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
I came across Paul McNevin's Irish Fiddle for absolute beginners video as well as book/CD. It was recommended by Phil Varlet on Fiddle-L for being better for someone learning from scratch, as the Dale Russ one requires some prior knowledge of the instrument. Does anyone else have any opinions on McNevin's video or book/CD?
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by Eldarion
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
I've recently migrated to the fiddle from the mandolin - I think I'm making progress, and I found Paul McNevin's book and cd invaluable. It starts right at the beginning, and the tune selection and the settings are very useful. I've also got the Matt Cranitch book and use it a lot - many excellent tunes for beginners (though I know polkas have to be taken up to proper speed to sound right, they are good beginners practice played fairly moderately). I've recently bought the Sean Keane 50 fiddle solos with accompanying cd - wow! that is absolutely a gem! I've played the cd over and over again and it is really special IMHO! It takes you on a stage. I'm self-taught but I'm too old to worry about picking up bad habits - I'm just enjoying letting rip with the music (not sure if the neighbours agree)
# Posted on September 29th 2004 by RichardB
Re: Advice for a Beginning Fiddler?
The one caveat I'd give about getting lessons from an instructor that's not a fiddler is this: Most "violin" techniques are geared towards music that frequnetly goes into 2nd and 3rd positions on the fiddle. Almost all ITM is played in the first position. So, you won't want to waste time learning those positions unless you want to paly other music, and also classical technique as far as positioning your fiddle goes etc. isn't neccessarily all pertinent to ITM. Many classical players hold the fiddle in a way that facilitates access to the upper positions. In my experience, havin the fiddle in such a position is a bit less comfortable that most ITM players and other fiddlers tend to use. Perhaps that's one reason that Classical players have a higher incidence of injuries than fiddlers!
# Posted on October 27th 2004 by meemtp