As a bit of light relief from the Bull-Elephant's Soap-Opera currently running further down this board, here's something that the pure-ripple brigade can crucify me for.
For the benefit of those who are unfortunate(!) enough not to read the 300 posts on the other thread, some of it was about how appalling it is when people play tunes that they haven't honed to perfection in their woodsheds beforehand (well, something like that).
I was clearing out a load of old/duplicated digital photos etc from my computer last night to try and regain some disk space when I came across one of those little .avi movies that my son must have made on our digital camera. It's about two minutes of a session in (I think) that pub in Kenmare that's still a pub and not a restaurant. There are 2 fiddles, a piper, a drum, a bazouki, and myself on flute. We're all hammering away at a tune and it sounds pretty good (well, fun, anyway). Thing is - I've got no memory of that session and I've no idea what the tune is (ooops!). I seem to be playing it ok. I certainly never learned it, and haven't played it before or since, but it sounds alright to me (ok, not exactly Lunasa, more like a session). The clip is pretty poor quality, and I wouldn't waste time waiting for it to download if you've only got a dial-up connection (It's not that impressive) - but I reckon it has more to say about the spirit of the session than all those anguished posts on the other thread....
You have been warned!!
Only sorry I couldn't hear the flute better. Sounds--and looks--like everyone is having a great time. That's cool to get a video glimpse of your session. The next generation of the Mighty Craic?
Was it a polka? They play all sorts of funny tunes down there in Kerry and I got a bit disorientated
But it's not 'my session' Will, it was a 'holiday session', I only met those people that afternoon and they asked me to come and sit in with them that night.
But maybe it might be nice for people to post little video clip of their sessions - it would be interesting to see what people actually do - particularly as there seems to be such a wide variety of session formats around. It might even make for a bit more tolerance ....
Mark, I'll have to take everyone's word about your avi file. Some server somewhere is acting incredibly slow and I couldn't download it. I'll have another go some other time.
Sometimes I take a miniature digital camera (a Mustek DV3000 3"x2.5"x1.5", weighing 4oz) to a session, and more often to workshops. The picture and quality are typical web camera but it is so simple to use it beats MD recorders for sound recording if you're not concerned with hifi recording - about 3 hours on a 256MB memory card.
I'll have to see about setting up an appropriate website.
Trevor
Looked a bit dark on my screen. Like The Blair Witch Session or something. I couldn't have picked that tune up, I don't think. Is that how fast they play polkas in Kerry?
Great clip Otter. It is one of those tunes that you can pick up straightway, and not remember afterwards. That happens to me sometimes - but I can usually only do it on the whistle or the flute, I'm not sufficiently steeped in the stringed things to fall to it naturally without a prior noodle. I can remember early years of playing, being astonished that anyone could do so - you could play a tune you thought only you knew, and someone would join in. Afterwards when you asked where they knew it from they'd say they never heard it before.
"... I reckon it has more to say about the spirit of the session than all those anguished posts on the other thread...."
Sorry it's murky, it was a murky pub. That's how fast that polka was played in that pub, fov .
And Jim, sorry, that's all there is! I didn't even know that was being filmed at the time - the girl playing the drum looks like she's been imported from a silent move - she looks all speeded up.
It looks all nice and cosy tucked away in there! I hardly ever hear polkas played here, only on the rare occasion. I find polkas the most difficult to play of all the genres, even though they look easy on paper. I looked up the tune: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/1833.
Dow, your a fecking genius - why didn't I think of that! So the tune was Mrs. Crowley's -and that was the name of the pub (Well, Crowley's), and Mrs. Crowley was there (upstairs tucked up for the night by that time!). What an amazing co-incidence that of all the tunes played that night that was the tune my lad decided to film (I always said he was a bright boy).
The server has now behaved itself and I've downloaded the file.
A typical pub session, the sort that I'm used to! I_Fel called the clip "ciné verité". That's about right; it gives a better idea of a real session than using professional cameras, lighting and banks of mics. I've noticed before that home video cameras running at 25 or 30fps can't pick up the incredibly fast action of a good bodhrán player (or the bowing or finger action of a fiddler playing fast), because the movements are faster than the frame rate. Also, I think it is possible that the camera drops frames in order to keep up with the sound (I don't know whether I'm making sense here). Hence the jerky action on video with some fast playing.
That polka speed was about right, too. The problem with polkas is that they're generally easy to get into memory, and the fingering (on the fiddle at any rate) is usually straightforward, so they're useful tunes to teach a beginner. However, a beginner, by definition, is unable to play quickly and accurately, so polkas tend to be learned as slowish tunes, and the real rhythm is difficult to achieve. A beginner's polkas are likely to remain in this limbo until the player gets to hear them at the speed set dancers dance them at - which is pdq - and then they are no longer beginners' tunes.
Trevor
That file was loaded onto our web space which is hosted by our ISP. This comes as part of the package with our Broadband connection with Zen. Other providers may not provide this without you paying extra. Have a look at what your ISP is providing. You'll need ftp software to load the stuff on line, which you should be able to download for free. I'm not an expert on this - ask Jeremy nicely and I'm sure he can explain it better than I can(!)
As an interim measure, until Jeremy gets round to providing links to our videos (and mp3s) I suggest that members who have websites and are willing and able to upload such files for everyone's benefit put an appropriate link in their bio.
Trevor
fov - I thought you said you couldn't pick that tune up...
Yaht dat daah, dada yaht dat daah, dada yaht dat daah dada dat dat daaah
... You seem to have it...!
IMPORTANT NOTES ON SESSION VIDEO ETIQUETTE
-----------------------------------------
Don't we need to establish the correct procedure and etiquette for videoing sessions.
Surely it's only acceptable to video your session if it can be shown that:
a) video cameras are a Traditional Irish artifact
and
b) video cameras are used in sessions in Ireland
It would also be important that no "video noodling" took place - such as an experimental few seconds of filming to get the hang of it. All camera operators must practice their technique at home first, and only video the session when they can do it right. Should one be allowed to use any sort of electronic aid to determine light levels, or should a proper videoer be able to do that without assistance.
Traditionally, of course, you would have to learn from an old uncle how to use the camera, although learning from the manual would be acceptable so long as you don't read the manual in the session.
Then there's the whole question of the best way to hold the camera; how famous video makers hold their cameras; whether certain types of camera are only acceptable in high level sessions; whether just anyone can come along and video, or is it a closed videoing session; how to deal with someone who videos a different shot at the same time that you are videoing something; when two people make a video - which is the correct version? Are tripods allowed? etc etc
Nice one, Mark. Great session. It's a catchy little number that one, and sounds very easy to pick up, which is presumably why you weren't worried about whether you were "noodling" (gawd I hate that word) or not....as well as the obligatory 10 pints of the Black Stuff which you no doubt had by then.
Well, Danny, you may have hit the nail on the head there, I don't think we started playing much before eleven, and I'd certainly have been in the pub since half eight, and before that probably out for a bite to eat with a bottle of wine...
It's no bloody wonder I've only got a very vague recollection of that session.
As for that young fiddle player with the grip of death behind me, I'm sure he'd been in there since lunchtime - he's only holding on to the neck of his fiddle to stop himself sliding under the table(!)
Kenmare, Kenmare...I'm just trying to think of the pub...there can only be one or two...it wasn't the one which has one of those independent hostels attached to it, was it?
I was in Crowley's in Kenmare for sessions a few weeks ago, meeting up again with friends Gill Newlyn and her husband Chris who now run the excellent Monday and Tuesday sessions there. If you go to this page on Gill's website http://www.kerryfiddles.com/excursions.htm and look for Crowley's Bar you'll see a recent photo of Joan Crowley (in her 80's) playing the fiddle in the pub. Her son now owns it.
Some Low Quality Noise type fun :-)
Some Low Quality Noise type fun
As a bit of light relief from the Bull-Elephant's Soap-Opera currently running further down this board, here's something that the pure-ripple brigade can crucify me for.
For the benefit of those who are unfortunate(!) enough not to read the 300 posts on the other thread, some of it was about how appalling it is when people play tunes that they haven't honed to perfection in their woodsheds beforehand (well, something like that).
I was clearing out a load of old/duplicated digital photos etc from my computer last night to try and regain some disk space when I came across one of those little .avi movies that my son must have made on our digital camera. It's about two minutes of a session in (I think) that pub in Kenmare that's still a pub and not a restaurant. There are 2 fiddles, a piper, a drum, a bazouki, and myself on flute. We're all hammering away at a tune and it sounds pretty good (well, fun, anyway). Thing is - I've got no memory of that session and I've no idea what the tune is (ooops!). I seem to be playing it ok. I certainly never learned it, and haven't played it before or since, but it sounds alright to me (ok, not exactly Lunasa, more like a session). The clip is pretty poor quality, and I wouldn't waste time waiting for it to download if you've only got a dial-up connection (It's not that impressive) - but I reckon it has more to say about the spirit of the session than all those anguished posts on the other thread....
You have been warned!!
http://www.zen17535.zen.co.uk/mark/mark.AVI
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Sessions are about having fun? Someone's been giving you false informaton.
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by John J.
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Mark, you couldda warned us it was a polka!
:oD
Only sorry I couldn't hear the flute better. Sounds--and looks--like everyone is having a great time. That's cool to get a video glimpse of your session. The next generation of the Mighty Craic?
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Was it a polka? They play all sorts of funny tunes down there in Kerry and I got a bit disorientated
But it's not 'my session' Will, it was a 'holiday session', I only met those people that afternoon and they asked me to come and sit in with them that night.
But maybe it might be nice for people to post little video clip of their sessions - it would be interesting to see what people actually do - particularly as there seems to be such a wide variety of session formats around. It might even make for a bit more tolerance ....
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Yes.
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Mark, I'll have to take everyone's word about your avi file. Some server somewhere is acting incredibly slow and I couldn't download it. I'll have another go some other time.
Sometimes I take a miniature digital camera (a Mustek DV3000 3"x2.5"x1.5", weighing 4oz) to a session, and more often to workshops. The picture and quality are typical web camera but it is so simple to use it beats MD recorders for sound recording if you're not concerned with hifi recording - about 3 hours on a 256MB memory card.
I'll have to see about setting up an appropriate website.
Trevor
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Looked a bit dark on my screen. Like The Blair Witch Session or something. I couldn't have picked that tune up, I don't think. Is that how fast they play polkas in Kerry?
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
cine verite- I liked it
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by I_Fel
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Great clip Otter. It is one of those tunes that you can pick up straightway, and not remember afterwards. That happens to me sometimes - but I can usually only do it on the whistle or the flute, I'm not sufficiently steeped in the stringed things to fall to it naturally without a prior noodle. I can remember early years of playing, being astonished that anyone could do so - you could play a tune you thought only you knew, and someone would join in. Afterwards when you asked where they knew it from they'd say they never heard it before.
"... I reckon it has more to say about the spirit of the session than all those anguished posts on the other thread...."
Hear hear.
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Sorry it's murky, it was a murky pub. That's how fast that polka was played in that pub, fov
.
And Jim, sorry, that's all there is! I didn't even know that was being filmed at the time - the girl playing the drum looks like she's been imported from a silent move - she looks all speeded up.
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
It opened up loud and clear and cheered me up no end!
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by RichardB
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
It looks all nice and cosy tucked away in there! I hardly ever hear polkas played here, only on the rare occasion. I find polkas the most difficult to play of all the genres, even though they look easy on paper. I looked up the tune: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/1833.
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Great stuff !
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by BegF
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Dow, your a fecking genius - why didn't I think of that! So the tune was Mrs. Crowley's -and that was the name of the pub (Well, Crowley's), and Mrs. Crowley was there (upstairs tucked up for the night by that time!). What an amazing co-incidence that of all the tunes played that night that was the tune my lad decided to film (I always said he was a bright boy).
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
The server has now behaved itself and I've downloaded the file.
A typical pub session, the sort that I'm used to! I_Fel called the clip "ciné verité". That's about right; it gives a better idea of a real session than using professional cameras, lighting and banks of mics. I've noticed before that home video cameras running at 25 or 30fps can't pick up the incredibly fast action of a good bodhrán player (or the bowing or finger action of a fiddler playing fast), because the movements are faster than the frame rate. Also, I think it is possible that the camera drops frames in order to keep up with the sound (I don't know whether I'm making sense here). Hence the jerky action on video with some fast playing.
That polka speed was about right, too. The problem with polkas is that they're generally easy to get into memory, and the fingering (on the fiddle at any rate) is usually straightforward, so they're useful tunes to teach a beginner. However, a beginner, by definition, is unable to play quickly and accurately, so polkas tend to be learned as slowish tunes, and the real rhythm is difficult to achieve. A beginner's polkas are likely to remain in this limbo until the player gets to hear them at the speed set dancers dance them at - which is pdq - and then they are no longer beginners' tunes.
Trevor
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Thanks for sharing the video clip Ottery! A great way to start my morning. Looks like a great session.
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Great clip, lots of fun to watch. I'd love to see more of these if people have them (or can make them!)
Any chance of a "links" category pointing to session videos, Jeremy?
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by grego
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
"But I reckon it has more to say about the spirit of the session than all those anquished posts on the other thread."
And so, what would it be saying, then?
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Eliot
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Like I said in the first post above, it's there so you can crucify me!
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
It's saying "Yaht dat daah, dada yaht dat daah, dada yaht dat daah dada dat dat daaah"
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
More fun! More fun! More fun!
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
That file was loaded onto our web space which is hosted by our ISP. This comes as part of the package with our Broadband connection with Zen. Other providers may not provide this without you paying extra. Have a look at what your ISP is providing. You'll need ftp software to load the stuff on line, which you should be able to download for free. I'm not an expert on this - ask Jeremy nicely and I'm sure he can explain it better than I can(!)
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
As an interim measure, until Jeremy gets round to providing links to our videos (and mp3s) I suggest that members who have websites and are willing and able to upload such files for everyone's benefit put an appropriate link in their bio.
Trevor
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
fov - I thought you said you couldn't pick that tune up...
Yaht dat daah, dada yaht dat daah, dada yaht dat daah dada dat dat daaah
... You seem to have it...!
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
LOL. I read the sheet music.
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Kerri Brown
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
IMPORTANT NOTES ON SESSION VIDEO ETIQUETTE
-----------------------------------------
Don't we need to establish the correct procedure and etiquette for videoing sessions.
Surely it's only acceptable to video your session if it can be shown that:
a) video cameras are a Traditional Irish artifact
and
b) video cameras are used in sessions in Ireland
It would also be important that no "video noodling" took place - such as an experimental few seconds of filming to get the hang of it. All camera operators must practice their technique at home first, and only video the session when they can do it right. Should one be allowed to use any sort of electronic aid to determine light levels, or should a proper videoer be able to do that without assistance.
Traditionally, of course, you would have to learn from an old uncle how to use the camera, although learning from the manual would be acceptable so long as you don't read the manual in the session.
Then there's the whole question of the best way to hold the camera; how famous video makers hold their cameras; whether certain types of camera are only acceptable in high level sessions; whether just anyone can come along and video, or is it a closed videoing session; how to deal with someone who videos a different shot at the same time that you are videoing something; when two people make a video - which is the correct version? Are tripods allowed? etc etc
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Nice one, Mark. Great session. It's a catchy little number that one, and sounds very easy to pick up, which is presumably why you weren't worried about whether you were "noodling" (gawd I hate that word) or not....as well as the obligatory 10 pints of the Black Stuff which you no doubt had by then.
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Well, Danny, you may have hit the nail on the head there, I don't think we started playing much before eleven, and I'd certainly have been in the pub since half eight, and before that probably out for a bite to eat with a bottle of wine...
It's no bloody wonder I've only got a very vague recollection of that session.
As for that young fiddle player with the grip of death behind me, I'm sure he'd been in there since lunchtime - he's only holding on to the neck of his fiddle to stop himself sliding under the table(!)
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Kenmare, Kenmare...I'm just trying to think of the pub...there can only be one or two...it wasn't the one which has one of those independent hostels attached to it, was it?
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
It was Crowley's
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Ottery
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
Yep - as you said above.....duhhh.
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Some Low Quality Noise type fun
I was in Crowley's in Kenmare for sessions a few weeks ago, meeting up again with friends Gill Newlyn and her husband Chris who now run the excellent Monday and Tuesday sessions there. If you go to this page on Gill's website http://www.kerryfiddles.com/excursions.htm and look for Crowley's Bar you'll see a recent photo of Joan Crowley (in her 80's) playing the fiddle in the pub. Her son now owns it.
# Posted on September 21st 2007 by Trevor Jennings