OK folks, time (once again) to admit my ignorance and ask a possibly annoying question.
What the hell is a contra dance? It sounds vaguely Latin-American to me, and so seems awfully out of place on a site that deals with ITM.
I never heard of such a thing before visiting the session and Irtrad-L. Speaking of which, I have to agree with all of your comments about that other...discussion group? (Hardly). Thanks for your work Jeremy.
If it is some Latin-American thing, why are a good deal of ITM people involved in playing it? Is it some similar style of music? Please have mercy on a college educated ignoramus.
It's a Nicaraguan dance that was very popular in Washington DC (USA) during the Reagan years. It involves frequent switching of partners in many different countries, and somehow in the process a few people end up with a lot of money.
But see also http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/
Jeez, why did this thing get posted twice?
Anyway, sorry for the joke; i didn't know either. It seems that in the US, contra is a kind of square dancing that can take more than 4 partners. The name appears to come from English Country Dance.
Yes, a contra is English Country (ie peasant, not aristocratic) dance that is danced in 2 lines, the women facing the men, and each 2 couples dance together in square dance fashion, ie, in pre-set patterns. Then, through these patterns, the "head" couple of the whole group of people ends up at the end of the lines matching each couple with another couple to form the square, and everyone goes through the dance pattern again. Each contra (pattern) is different depending on the music, of course. It was the dance of choice also in the English colonies in North America.
Scottish Highland dancing and Irish Ceoli dancing are VERY similar. The Scots do it on their toes. The Irish do it with a hop in each step. Each of the 3 cultural groups uses its own style of music. But, it's all still couple line dancing. American square dancing is an outgrowth of these, just as American tap dancing is an outgrowth of the mix of Irish step dancing and American jazz. And, American Appalachian folk music is a cousin to Irish/English/Scottish folk music brought here by the very same immigrants. But, you probably know all that stuff already! I just find the connections between us Yanks and those 2 little European islands fascinating. And we haven't even touched on the artistic or political arena of influence yet...
Thanks guys - very helpful. Now I'm not wholly ignorant, and I can see how Irish musicians have gotten mixed up in contra dance. Not as strange as a thought.
Actually, Scottish Highland dancing and Irish ceili dancing are not similar at all, but I think that's just because you've gotten Scottish Highland mixed up with Scottish Country, Linda.
Scottish Highland is the solo dancing of the Fling, and the Jig and all those things -- dancing over swords solo and in groups, wearing the vests, fluffy white blouses and tartan skirts, lots of turnout, arms up in the air, and on the hips.
Scottish Country dancing is long skirts and slippers and lots of skipping sideways movement and sets of people dancing together.
Irish ceili dancing usually isn't as intricate (although there are certainly exceptions) as the Scottish Country dancing, since the ceili dancing's most notable function is that you can remember it when you're drunk. Heh. (Now, Irish SET dancing is extremely intricate, and generally more complicated than Scottish Country.) Scottish Country dancing is danced to reaaaaaallllllyyyyy sloooooooowwwwww music, and the Irish dancers complain a lot about the lack of speed when dancing with Scottish Country dancers.
The Irish also dance on their toes, but the hop is actually not necessarily part of the stepping about. And it's not necessarily line dancing, either, nor always in couples, although in general that's true. Lots of the ceili dances are danced in trios and quartets, circle dances are danced -- surprise -- in circles, etc.
A little nit-pickiness for your afternoon. In general, if you say "a contra dance", one means dancing the dances from the various bits of England, but Irish ceili usually is only from Ireland, and Scottish country is only from Scotland.
I've heard people say that "contra" was derived from "country" (doubtful), and others that "contra" was derived from "contrary" (less doubtful). I've no idea what the actual etymology is.
Contra Dance was born in France & later became popular in England (Became very popular in New England). The word Contra does indeed come from "Contrar"(sp?) French word related to Contrary but also meaning opposed, or facing each other. Contra is still quite a big thing amongst the Quebecois of New England.
Thanks, Brad, for the input on the French connection. It makes absolute sense with all the history between the French and the English. I LOVE studying History. I do it all the time, and, the more I know, the more I don't know...if you know what I mean. Memory failure is just complicating things lately.
Contra dance is big here, too. Many of the musicians who play in our Irish session also play at the contra dances. There is a country dance coming up that I am working on the poster for at his very moment. The local Pioneer Museum supplied an old photograph from their archives, and those who arrive in pioneer costume will receive a discount on admission.
English Country dancing compared to contras is as my husband puts it like kissing your sister. The main reason we enjoy dancing contras is the ballroom style swing and the faster pace of the music. Bands here in the Northeast have now taken to incorporating jazz and swing genres, but we stick to the more traditional New England Chestnut style of playing the tunes (French-Canadian, Irish, Scottish origin) straight.
Funny thing - I was just reading last night in country music historian Bill Malone's new book in which he discusses
the contra dance. According to him, this style of dance originated among pleasant folk in England. It was "discovered"
by the French and it became popular there among the "higher" classes as "contredance."
Since the English (and we Americans) always believe something is better if it is French, the upper
English classes reimported the contredance from France and it enjoyed a fad there.
facinatin' aint it?
A dear friend of mine who is visiting Ireland right now just returned from a trip to New Zealand the purpose of which was to introduce contradancing to those folks. Also, we were playing a dance in a tiny grange in upstate NY about 17 years ago and a Latin American walked in to participate. He couldn't speak English (it's good that the caller could interpret). The sign outside had indicated "contra dance tonight". But he did stay and listen to the music! I guess I was mistaken in assuming that people around the world knew about this tradition.
What no one seems to have mentioned yet is the structure of the tunes used in contra dancing. We play almost exclusively 32-bar jigs and reels because at that length, once through the tune is once through the dance pattern. Experienced dancers are cued by the music for the next movement. But whether the tune's origin is Irish, English, Scottish, Breton, Quebequois, Old-Time, or brand-spanking new appears to depend entirely on the combined knowledge of the band playing the tunes. In fact, a friend of mine jokes that the more musicians you have combined, the fewer tunes they know in common, until you reach the point where the only tune everyone knows is "Irish Washerwoman."
Oh yeah, here in the Mid-Atlantic, Northeast, and points South, all contra dances have live bands, unlike many square dance clubs.
If you're ever in the DC area at about the second Friday of the month, you may be able to sit in at the Glen Echo open band. See http://www.contradancers.com/ for links--specifically the Glen Echo Friday Night Dance group.
The workshops I run occasionally (hosting, not teaching) often revolve around contra dance tunes.
Contra?
Contra?
OK folks, time (once again) to admit my ignorance and ask a possibly annoying question.
What the hell is a contra dance? It sounds vaguely Latin-American to me, and so seems awfully out of place on a site that deals with ITM.
I never heard of such a thing before visiting the session and Irtrad-L. Speaking of which, I have to agree with all of your comments about that other...discussion group? (Hardly). Thanks for your work Jeremy.
If it is some Latin-American thing, why are a good deal of ITM people involved in playing it? Is it some similar style of music? Please have mercy on a college educated ignoramus.
Thomas
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by tccaucutt
Re: Contra?
It's a Nicaraguan dance that was very popular in Washington DC (USA) during the Reagan years. It involves frequent switching of partners in many different countries, and somehow in the process a few people end up with a lot of money.
But see also http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by glauber
Jeez, why did this thing get posted twice?
Anyway, sorry for the joke; i didn't know either. It seems that in the US, contra is a kind of square dancing that can take more than 4 partners. The name appears to come from English Country Dance.
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by glauber
Re: Contra?
Hi, Tom!
Yes, a contra is English Country (ie peasant, not aristocratic) dance that is danced in 2 lines, the women facing the men, and each 2 couples dance together in square dance fashion, ie, in pre-set patterns. Then, through these patterns, the "head" couple of the whole group of people ends up at the end of the lines matching each couple with another couple to form the square, and everyone goes through the dance pattern again. Each contra (pattern) is different depending on the music, of course. It was the dance of choice also in the English colonies in North America.
Scottish Highland dancing and Irish Ceoli dancing are VERY similar. The Scots do it on their toes. The Irish do it with a hop in each step. Each of the 3 cultural groups uses its own style of music. But, it's all still couple line dancing. American square dancing is an outgrowth of these, just as American tap dancing is an outgrowth of the mix of Irish step dancing and American jazz. And, American Appalachian folk music is a cousin to Irish/English/Scottish folk music brought here by the very same immigrants. But, you probably know all that stuff already! I just find the connections between us Yanks and those 2 little European islands fascinating. And we haven't even touched on the artistic or political arena of influence yet...
Linda
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by linda
Re: Contra?
Thanks guys - very helpful. Now I'm not wholly ignorant, and I can see how Irish musicians have gotten mixed up in contra dance. Not as strange as a thought.
TC
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by tccaucutt
Re: Contra?
Actually, Scottish Highland dancing and Irish ceili dancing are not similar at all, but I think that's just because you've gotten Scottish Highland mixed up with Scottish Country, Linda.
In general, if you say "a contra dance", one means dancing the dances from the various bits of England, but Irish ceili usually is only from Ireland, and Scottish country is only from Scotland.
Scottish Highland is the solo dancing of the Fling, and the Jig and all those things -- dancing over swords solo and in groups, wearing the vests, fluffy white blouses and tartan skirts, lots of turnout, arms up in the air, and on the hips.
Scottish Country dancing is long skirts and slippers and lots of skipping sideways movement and sets of people dancing together.
Irish ceili dancing usually isn't as intricate (although there are certainly exceptions) as the Scottish Country dancing, since the ceili dancing's most notable function is that you can remember it when you're drunk. Heh. (Now, Irish SET dancing is extremely intricate, and generally more complicated than Scottish Country.) Scottish Country dancing is danced to reaaaaaallllllyyyyy sloooooooowwwwww music, and the Irish dancers complain a lot about the lack of speed when dancing with Scottish Country dancers.
The Irish also dance on their toes, but the hop is actually not necessarily part of the stepping about. And it's not necessarily line dancing, either, nor always in couples, although in general that's true. Lots of the ceili dances are danced in trios and quartets, circle dances are danced -- surprise -- in circles, etc.
A little nit-pickiness for your afternoon.
I've heard people say that "contra" was derived from "country" (doubtful), and others that "contra" was derived from "contrary" (less doubtful). I've no idea what the actual etymology is.
Zina
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by Zina Lee
French
Contra Dance was born in France & later became popular in England (Became very popular in New England). The word Contra does indeed come from "Contrar"(sp?) French word related to Contrary but also meaning opposed, or facing each other. Contra is still quite a big thing amongst the Quebecois of New England.
~b
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by B Rad
Re: Contra?
Morris-dancing & English Country Dancing is more pure English, Contra is just borrowed from the French.
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by B Rad
Re: Contra?
Second "oops!" of the day. You're right, Zina, I meant Scottish Country dancing. Good thing SOMEone is watching over me. The brain is shorting out.
Now, shall we talk Balkan dancing??? Naw! Some other time.
Linda
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by linda
Re: Contra?
Yes, and set dancing...
Memory failure is just complicating things lately.
Thanks, Brad, for the input on the French connection. It makes absolute sense with all the history between the French and the English. I LOVE studying History. I do it all the time, and, the more I know, the more I don't know...if you know what I mean.
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by linda
Re: Contra?
Lot's of good info on this thread about Contra dance. They are a blast to play for, but you will get a work out. Here's a few handy links.
http://www.folkdancing.org/about_contras.html
About Contra Dance
http://www.io.com/~entropy/contradance/dance-home.html
Contra Dance Stuff
http://www.tiac.net/users/cseelig/contra/festivals.shtml
Contra Dance & Contra Dance Links for Festivals, Camps, and Weekends
http://www.hwcn.org/link/jig/a_contra_dancers_primer.htm
# Posted on April 2nd 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Contra?
Contra dance is big here, too. Many of the musicians who play in our Irish session also play at the contra dances. There is a country dance coming up that I am working on the poster for at his very moment. The local Pioneer Museum supplied an old photograph from their archives, and those who arrive in pioneer costume will receive a discount on admission.
Alice in Montana
# Posted on April 3rd 2002 by aliceflynn
Re: Contra?
Alice,
That sounds fun!
# Posted on April 3rd 2002 by linda
Re: Contra?
English Country dancing compared to contras is as my husband puts it like kissing your sister. The main reason we enjoy dancing contras is the ballroom style swing and the faster pace of the music. Bands here in the Northeast have now taken to incorporating jazz and swing genres, but we stick to the more traditional New England Chestnut style of playing the tunes (French-Canadian, Irish, Scottish origin) straight.
# Posted on April 4th 2002 by vonnieestes
Re: Contra?
Funny thing - I was just reading last night in country music historian Bill Malone's new book in which he discusses
the contra dance. According to him, this style of dance originated among pleasant folk in England. It was "discovered"
by the French and it became popular there among the "higher" classes as "contredance."
Since the English (and we Americans) always believe something is better if it is French, the upper
English classes reimported the contredance from France and it enjoyed a fad there.
facinatin' aint it?
Joe
# Posted on April 4th 2002 by Carrmuse
Re: Contra?
A dear friend of mine who is visiting Ireland right now just returned from a trip to New Zealand the purpose of which was to introduce contradancing to those folks. Also, we were playing a dance in a tiny grange in upstate NY about 17 years ago and a Latin American walked in to participate. He couldn't speak English (it's good that the caller could interpret). The sign outside had indicated "contra dance tonight". But he did stay and listen to the music! I guess I was mistaken in assuming that people around the world knew about this tradition.
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by vonnieestes
Re: Contra?
What no one seems to have mentioned yet is the structure of the tunes used in contra dancing. We play almost exclusively 32-bar jigs and reels because at that length, once through the tune is once through the dance pattern. Experienced dancers are cued by the music for the next movement. But whether the tune's origin is Irish, English, Scottish, Breton, Quebequois, Old-Time, or brand-spanking new appears to depend entirely on the combined knowledge of the band playing the tunes. In fact, a friend of mine jokes that the more musicians you have combined, the fewer tunes they know in common, until you reach the point where the only tune everyone knows is "Irish Washerwoman."
Oh yeah, here in the Mid-Atlantic, Northeast, and points South, all contra dances have live bands, unlike many square dance clubs.
If you're ever in the DC area at about the second Friday of the month, you may be able to sit in at the Glen Echo open band. See http://www.contradancers.com/ for links--specifically the Glen Echo Friday Night Dance group.
The workshops I run occasionally (hosting, not teaching) often revolve around contra dance tunes.
Marguerite Plank
http://www.ladyofthecreek.com
# Posted on April 15th 2002 by mvhplank