If after working on a tune for weeks and there is still a spot that trips you up do you, put the tune
on the back burner?, dump the tune entirely or heaven forbid, modify the trouble spot so that you can
play it and the rest of the tune up to session speed? Trouble is my back burner is overflowing with
problem tunes.
Yeah, I pretty much back burner it. Surprise, surprise, after a while I take it back out again, and I can play it. Well, usually. Heh.
I think modifying the trouble spot, wait, no, let's call it "learning a different setting", is just fine, myself, so long as it works with what everyone else usually does.
Another option is to just play that spot quietly--back off a few decibles and muddle through. This can even work for solo playing if the "spot" isn't more than a bar or two long. Pretend it's just "dynamics." Eventually you'll make it work.
The other thing that has helped me is to work on tunes clearly over my head (Tommy's Tarbukas was an early one, and Beeswing Hornpipe). Then you come back to pieces that are almost within reach, and suddenly they don't feel so hard.
All this depends somewhat on what kind of trouble spots you're running into. Is it the same sort of difficulty occurring in many different tunes? Or is it one idiosyncratic glitch in each tune? Care to bare your soul and tell us? Here, relax on zis couch. Tell me, how long haf you been hafing zis probleem?
Seriously, gives us some specifics and I bet you'll get an avalanche of helpful advice from many angles, some of which might even be helpful
For example, in the fourth part of Maid at the Spinning Wheel, there's this really awkward bowing through three bars:
Jig
K: G maj
c|BAG Afd|Bgd Afd|Bgd AFD|EFG ABc|... etc.
Now I tried every which way to bow this, hoping to find something that worked and nothing clicked. I finally settled on a single bow approach (and later confirmed that this was how Eileen Ivers--my source for the tune--bows it). It wasn't easy, but it was the least difficult way I could find. Still, to get it up to speed took months and months of daily practice just on that passage, starting painfully slow and gradually gaining momemtum. Those three bars are the only ones like it I've come across in playing hundreds of ITM tunes, so all this hard work gained me only one part of one tune (it was worth it--I really like the tune). It's much more common to solve some technique problem and realize the gain in dozens of tunes with similar passages.
I have had similar experiences many times, trying to follow the bowing (as played by Kevin Burk) on "Strayaway Girl" was difficult, so I decided to play it "as it comes" It seemed to work alot better, I follow some of the bowing but not all of it as it just doesn't seem natural to me in certain points. Re "Tommy Tarbukas", this is a tune I keep comming back to. It's the second part that to me is hard, the 3-up, 1-down phrases are hard when playng in the key, as intended, 2 flats (Gm). Occasionally I play it it and it's almosr mediocre! Any tips for playing this great tune ?Does anyone play this tune in another key, ?
I think it's best to put it aside and try a again a few weeks later, but if you have to "force" it through (i.e., you have to play it tomorrow), here's a trick that helps me:
Play the passage, slowly at first then at tempo, varying the rhythm ("hornpipe" it, for example, or do a reverse dotted rhythm, or play it all in 3s). Once you can play it one way, try another. Sometimes this is all that's needed to break through, then you're able to play the passage as it's supposed to be.
(i'm a flute player, by the way, so at least i don't have to worry about bowing)
Bowing / Blowing what's the difference? There are tunes that I resigned & just let sit on the back burner. I found the best way to learn them all the way is to sit down with another musician & go through it slowly & gradually pick it up til you have it. I'm often surprised that I was only four notes away from a new tune.
Daver, I've heard people play T.Tarbukas in Em and it is a lot easier on fiddle in that key. But it just doesn't have the same sound.
The only help I can offer on the B Part is to play it for 5-10 minutes, slow enough to get it basically right, every day for 2-3 weeks. Don't skip a day. Eventually, it will come around. And other tunes that you thought were hard will then feel much easier.
In my experience, it's rare to run into a roadblock that's longer than a bar of music. If that's the case with whatever you might be struggling with, then isolate that phrase and work it over. Take it apart and figure out exactly where the problem is. Sometimes it's how you lead into it that actually causes the problem. Sometimes it's where you land after a tricky bit.
If you have to focus on a trouble spot, be sure to work it through till you're mentally comfortable with it. Otherwise it will ambush you when you go to play the tune--like approaching big rapids in a calm river, you'll get anxious about it and flub it. My mantra is to make even the difficult passages feel *effortless*...it doesn't always work, but if I'm thinking "effortless" it usually sounds better than if I'm thinking "AAAAAarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!" every time I hit a difficult spot.
Well doc it's like this: The tune that has stymied me time and again is Dr. Gilbert's at session speed.
I can hit it at a medium speed but toward the end of the A part where you bounce between the A and E
strings gives me fits at anything close to full speed. If that part goes well, the earlier part
down on the G and D strings trips me up. So I dynamically muddle and wait like a cat for the B
part to roll around which I can usually play.
Don't get me wrong, there are many others but this tune is a good one and it's being a real
thorn in the saddle. It probably doesn't help that this tune is played at breakneck speed EVERY time.
Glauber, That sounds like a good approach but I'm not clever enough to convert the tune as
you describe. Maybe I should work toward that.
Zina, Glad I'm not the only one who tweaks tunes to get through. I'm amazed you guys don't
admit defeat when learning a tune. The way I see it, there are about 9000 Irish tunes so I don't
want to devote a long time in battling any one tune. Anyway that's how I rationalize it when I'm
a tune coward.
As a whistle player, my experience tells me that there are many tunes I simply cannot play with my diatonic instrument.
Some of them is because there're notes on more than two octaves, or notes below the low D, so they're out of the whistle range.
Some others are extremely complicated for the whistle, either because of the intricated fingering required so I cannot play them at the proper pace, most of which are what I like to believe 'fiddle' tunes (maybe we should open a new discussion here about fiddle tunes, flute tunes,etc.) , or because there are so many notes on them and therefore are beyond my skills (..yet, hopefully).
My response varies depending on the tune. Sometimes (usually when I really love the tune) I keep practicing until I got it, some others I simply give it up and surprisingly enough, after a while, I pick up the whistle and .. there it is!!. I reckon the tune's been on my head for such a long time and then simply comes down to my fingers (that's the magic of music, isn't it?). Some others (not many, though) I simple convince myself I'll never be able to play that tune so I start with another one.
My advice is, don't get obsessed and give it a rest. When is less expected, the tune will come out.
And there is not such a thing as a tune coward, is it?
Crusty, you're not alone in struggling with Dr. Gilbert's. Frankly, it's one of those tunes that doesn't need to be played up tempo to sound fast. We do it at something less than full-bore session speed and it sounds fine. In fact, if you listen to most of the recorded versions of it, it seems most players prefer it knocked down a few rpms. Perhaps your session mates will see the error of their ways when you waltz in next week and play Dr. Gilbert's at a reasonable tempo, with great authority and lift....
When I learned Dr. Gilberts, I too stumbled on that last phrase of the A Part:
|(3Bcd ed Bdgb|afdf e2...|
When I slowed it down and focused on just those notes, I realized that the first part of it: (3Bcd ed Bd wasn't particularly difficult, nor was the tail end: afdf e2
So the sticking point for me came down to two notes, the gb that tied these two easier sections together. It took 10 minutes of concentrated practice to overcome it. I played each of the two "easy" parts separately until they were stuck on auto pilot. I played afdf e2 till it sounded silly, like saying "lawn" over and over till you've forgotten what the word means and you're just making noise. Same thing for (3Bcd edBd. Got 'em both up to speed that way. Then I slowed way back down and put the gb back into the sequence and gradually brought it up to speed, all the while thinking "effortless."
See, I don't think of this kind of exercise as "forcing" the tune. It's more like submission to the tune, letting the tune take over your nerve synapses so they'll do something they've never done before. I'm careful to play lightly, using short bow strokes and the least amount of pressure needed to get a decent tone, rather than grinding the notes out.
I might also try several different approaches to the bowing, but I'd try to settle on the most comfortable approach and stick with it. In this case, I bow it:
(3down-up-down, slur up on the ed, down on B, up d, down g, up b, down a, up f, down d, slur up f to e2.
For both fingering and bowing, it helped me to consciously commit to the e string for the gbaf phrase rather than anticipating too much the return to the d.
Now I know this looks like a dissection diagram of the inside of a cat, when what you want is a live, purring kitten. But in real time, it won't take that long to break the trouble spot into it's components, isolate the 2-4 notes that are the stumbling block, and repeat them for 5-10 minutes. [WARNING: SOAP BOX RHETORIC AHEAD!] And I think too many musicians limit themselves when they give up on a tune if it doesn't just flow onto the fingers the way their mentor plays it at the session. Chances are, the mentor had to woodshed on it to get it sounding so smooth and easy. It's okay to really concentrate and dog a tune, playing it for an hour straight. Dr. Gilbert's is a great tune. Start a conversation with it and I'll bet most of us will run out of things to say before it does--it's full of personality, intriguing twists and turns and surprises. Is an hour of woodshedding too intense? Well, ask yourself, did your first date last more than an hour? How well did you get to know that person? I'm suggesting that building a relationship with a great tune is worth a similar investment in time and attentiveness.
Thanks Will, That's a systematic and thorough approach. Lots of times the components
aren't difficult but puting them together in context is. Your version is slightly different than mine
so I might try yours.
When I have bowing problems I go back to single strokes, no slurring just to get the phrase down
and add slurs later if they seem natural. I'm naturally a little lazy so slurring is my preferred course.
A lot of my problems come from my not using the fourth finger enough and thus more string
crossings than necessary. More to work on. Now I'm curious about Tommy's Tarbukas and
of other "rights of passage" fiddle tunes. Thanks again.
Lord, I tried playing Tommy's again yesterday after all the discussion -- damn, that thing is hard. It was dreadful. Good thing we never play it at the session. Heh.
Sometimes (usually when I really love the tune) I
keep practicing until I got it, some others I simply give it up and surprisingly enough, after a
while, I pick up the whistle and .. there it is!!
Toni, that has rarely been my experience but it has happened. Usually the reverse is true. I
learned the Silver Spire about a month ago. Somebody played it at the session and I couldn't
get it to kick in for the life of me. But on a better note, I played a tune that I had never "learned".
I knew it from week after week osmosis. Those are the golden moments.
Daver, didn't mean to ingore your request for tips on playing T. Tarbukas, and now that Zina has reminded me....
I'm assuming it's the B Part phrase (remember flat your B's and E's): |Acfe dbfd| that ties most of us into knots. For me, that's mostly a fingering problem--I broke my left pinky twice as a kid (really crushed it once), so it audibly clicks when I bend it, and it's not as straight or strong as it should be. Shortcomings that T.Tarbukas really throws the spotlight on. And I credit that phrase with doing more to strengthen my left hand fingers than anything else I've ever done. I must've played those 8 notes 3,000 times when I was trying to learn this tune. Just isolated that phrase and flogged the heck out of it. Eventually, my pinky developed some independence and stamina. Not enough to sound like Alisdair Fraser, but now and then the tune actually works. Try it. It's worth it. It will make all your pinky work sound better (Part B of Connaughtman's Rambles will be on pitch! Calliope House won't sound like Michael Coleman's piano player....)
RE: Tommy's Tarbukas, Ah, the unorthodox key dilemna. I think this is what drove me from learning Galway Bay. By
the way I thought a minor key differed in that the 3rd note was flatted. In Tommy's the E is taken
down a notch as well. More theory for me. Anyway Will, odd that you mentioned Calliope House,
I was taught it in the key of D. It plays very well in D and I have since found out it is played mostly in E.
Should I join the insanity and learn it in E as well?
You already have learned it, Crusty, you just play it in a different key. *grin* I had the same problem with Calliope House. Luckily, we don't play it that much, so the key difference never comes up. Heh.
I once heard of a session (probably from somebody here) in which people would have several weirdo key tunes ready just in case a player showed up that they wanted to either show up or show off to or get rid of. If they wore out their welcome, they'd tear into those tunes until the offending element went to the bar.
Probably not the friendliest way of dealing with it, but certainly one way of using those weird key and time change tunes. Heh.
It it gives me comfort to know that I'm not the only one who struggles with certain tunes. I put it down to not starting to play the fiddle until just past my 40th birthday. I do do play for a barn dance group regularly so I've managed some degree of success. Some good tips about how to cope with a difficult tune, I quite often intend to play "that difficult tune" every night until I get it. Tunes that I have intended to practice hard include :-
Lady Mary Hayes (Scots measure)
Tommy Tarbukas
Lads of Loise (spelling?)
plus many others
Then later on I realise that I haven't tried them for ages, I must write a list and stick it up on my notice board and look at it. Trouble is I like to warm up for about 20 minutes or so with tunes i know well, then I usually have some new barn dance tunes to work on and then if I remember/have time/ am not disturbed maybe get time to practice one one of the hard tunes! too many tunes not enough time. That tune "Caliope House", what a great tune, I have it in E but I thought that our session players would complain a bit so we play it in D, we also inculde in a set for the barn dance group, goes down very well. Must get on with some work.
We should ask Dave Richardson (Boys of the Lough) what key he originally composed Calliope House in. Anyone have an email address for him? Do they have a web site? I have an ancient (and no doubt faulty) recollection of them doing it in E.
When I learn tunes in odd (for ITM) keys, I usually get them into G, D, or A and their relative modes too, just so I don't totally annoy the fixed key players in our group. I know a tune better if I know it in more than one key. So when I learned the Morning Star in Martin Hayes' key of F, I also put it into the more common session key of G right away. It almost sounds like two different tunes. And it's nice to be ready when someone starts it off in the "odd" key (which, if I'm the "offending element," makes me harder to get rid of .
One way to work up to T. Tarbukas is to learn Eileen Curran first. It has many similar phrases and stretches and is a great tune in its own right. But you don't have to worry about those flatted e's. I often use Curran as a warm up for Tarbukas, desperately hoping to increase my chances of surviving Tommy's B Part. Oh well.
When you hit a roadblock
When you hit a roadblock
If after working on a tune for weeks and there is still a spot that trips you up do you, put the tune
on the back burner?, dump the tune entirely or heaven forbid, modify the trouble spot so that you can
play it and the rest of the tune up to session speed? Trouble is my back burner is overflowing with
problem tunes.
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Crusty
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Yeah, I pretty much back burner it. Surprise, surprise, after a while I take it back out again, and I can play it.
Well, usually. Heh.
I think modifying the trouble spot, wait, no, let's call it "learning a different setting", is just fine, myself, so long as it works with what everyone else usually does.
Zina
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Another option is to just play that spot quietly--back off a few decibles and muddle through. This can even work for solo playing if the "spot" isn't more than a bar or two long. Pretend it's just "dynamics." Eventually you'll make it work.
The other thing that has helped me is to work on tunes clearly over my head (Tommy's Tarbukas was an early one, and Beeswing Hornpipe). Then you come back to pieces that are almost within reach, and suddenly they don't feel so hard.
All this depends somewhat on what kind of trouble spots you're running into. Is it the same sort of difficulty occurring in many different tunes? Or is it one idiosyncratic glitch in each tune? Care to bare your soul and tell us? Here, relax on zis couch. Tell me, how long haf you been hafing zis probleem?
Seriously, gives us some specifics and I bet you'll get an avalanche of helpful advice from many angles, some of which might even be helpful
For example, in the fourth part of Maid at the Spinning Wheel, there's this really awkward bowing through three bars:
Jig
K: G maj
c|BAG Afd|Bgd Afd|Bgd AFD|EFG ABc|... etc.
Now I tried every which way to bow this, hoping to find something that worked and nothing clicked. I finally settled on a single bow approach (and later confirmed that this was how Eileen Ivers--my source for the tune--bows it). It wasn't easy, but it was the least difficult way I could find. Still, to get it up to speed took months and months of daily practice just on that passage, starting painfully slow and gradually gaining momemtum. Those three bars are the only ones like it I've come across in playing hundreds of ITM tunes, so all this hard work gained me only one part of one tune (it was worth it--I really like the tune). It's much more common to solve some technique problem and realize the gain in dozens of tunes with similar passages.
So what are your struggles?
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: When you hit a roadblock
I have had similar experiences many times, trying to follow the bowing (as played by Kevin Burk) on "Strayaway Girl" was difficult, so I decided to play it "as it comes" It seemed to work alot better, I follow some of the bowing but not all of it as it just doesn't seem natural to me in certain points. Re "Tommy Tarbukas", this is a tune I keep comming back to. It's the second part that to me is hard, the 3-up, 1-down phrases are hard when playng in the key, as intended, 2 flats (Gm). Occasionally I play it it and it's almosr mediocre! Any tips for playing this great tune ?Does anyone play this tune in another key, ?
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Daver
Re: When you hit a roadblock
I think it's best to put it aside and try a again a few weeks later, but if you have to "force" it through (i.e., you have to play it tomorrow), here's a trick that helps me:
Play the passage, slowly at first then at tempo, varying the rhythm ("hornpipe" it, for example, or do a reverse dotted rhythm, or play it all in 3s). Once you can play it one way, try another. Sometimes this is all that's needed to break through, then you're able to play the passage as it's supposed to be.
(i'm a flute player, by the way, so at least i don't have to worry about bowing)
g
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by glauber
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Bowing / Blowing what's the difference? There are tunes that I resigned & just let sit on the back burner. I found the best way to learn them all the way is to sit down with another musician & go through it slowly & gradually pick it up til you have it. I'm often surprised that I was only four notes away from a new tune.
~bm
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by B Rad
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Daver, I've heard people play T.Tarbukas in Em and it is a lot easier on fiddle in that key. But it just doesn't have the same sound.
The only help I can offer on the B Part is to play it for 5-10 minutes, slow enough to get it basically right, every day for 2-3 weeks. Don't skip a day. Eventually, it will come around. And other tunes that you thought were hard will then feel much easier.
In my experience, it's rare to run into a roadblock that's longer than a bar of music. If that's the case with whatever you might be struggling with, then isolate that phrase and work it over. Take it apart and figure out exactly where the problem is. Sometimes it's how you lead into it that actually causes the problem. Sometimes it's where you land after a tricky bit.
If you have to focus on a trouble spot, be sure to work it through till you're mentally comfortable with it. Otherwise it will ambush you when you go to play the tune--like approaching big rapids in a calm river, you'll get anxious about it and flub it. My mantra is to make even the difficult passages feel *effortless*...it doesn't always work, but if I'm thinking "effortless" it usually sounds better than if I'm thinking "AAAAAarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!" every time I hit a difficult spot.
# Posted on March 26th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Well doc it's like this: The tune that has stymied me time and again is Dr. Gilbert's at session speed.
I can hit it at a medium speed but toward the end of the A part where you bounce between the A and E
strings gives me fits at anything close to full speed. If that part goes well, the earlier part
down on the G and D strings trips me up. So I dynamically muddle and wait like a cat for the B
part to roll around which I can usually play.
Don't get me wrong, there are many others but this tune is a good one and it's being a real
thorn in the saddle. It probably doesn't help that this tune is played at breakneck speed EVERY time.
# Posted on March 26th 2002 by Crusty
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Glauber, That sounds like a good approach but I'm not clever enough to convert the tune as
you describe. Maybe I should work toward that.
Zina, Glad I'm not the only one who tweaks tunes to get through. I'm amazed you guys don't
admit defeat when learning a tune. The way I see it, there are about 9000 Irish tunes so I don't
want to devote a long time in battling any one tune. Anyway that's how I rationalize it when I'm
a tune coward.
# Posted on March 26th 2002 by Crusty
Re: When you hit a roadblock
As a whistle player, my experience tells me that there are many tunes I simply cannot play with my diatonic instrument.
Some of them is because there're notes on more than two octaves, or notes below the low D, so they're out of the whistle range.
Some others are extremely complicated for the whistle, either because of the intricated fingering required so I cannot play them at the proper pace, most of which are what I like to believe 'fiddle' tunes (maybe we should open a new discussion here about fiddle tunes, flute tunes,etc.) , or because there are so many notes on them and therefore are beyond my skills (..yet, hopefully).
My response varies depending on the tune. Sometimes (usually when I really love the tune) I keep practicing until I got it, some others I simply give it up and surprisingly enough, after a while, I pick up the whistle and .. there it is!!. I reckon the tune's been on my head for such a long time and then simply comes down to my fingers (that's the magic of music, isn't it?). Some others (not many, though) I simple convince myself I'll never be able to play that tune so I start with another one.
My advice is, don't get obsessed and give it a rest. When is less expected, the tune will come out.
And there is not such a thing as a tune coward, is it?
Toni
# Posted on March 26th 2002 by Toni Ribas
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Crusty, you're not alone in struggling with Dr. Gilbert's. Frankly, it's one of those tunes that doesn't need to be played up tempo to sound fast. We do it at something less than full-bore session speed and it sounds fine. In fact, if you listen to most of the recorded versions of it, it seems most players prefer it knocked down a few rpms. Perhaps your session mates will see the error of their ways when you waltz in next week and play Dr. Gilbert's at a reasonable tempo, with great authority and lift....
When I learned Dr. Gilberts, I too stumbled on that last phrase of the A Part:
|(3Bcd ed Bdgb|afdf e2...|
When I slowed it down and focused on just those notes, I realized that the first part of it: (3Bcd ed Bd wasn't particularly difficult, nor was the tail end: afdf e2
So the sticking point for me came down to two notes, the gb that tied these two easier sections together. It took 10 minutes of concentrated practice to overcome it. I played each of the two "easy" parts separately until they were stuck on auto pilot. I played afdf e2 till it sounded silly, like saying "lawn" over and over till you've forgotten what the word means and you're just making noise. Same thing for (3Bcd edBd. Got 'em both up to speed that way. Then I slowed way back down and put the gb back into the sequence and gradually brought it up to speed, all the while thinking "effortless."
See, I don't think of this kind of exercise as "forcing" the tune. It's more like submission to the tune, letting the tune take over your nerve synapses so they'll do something they've never done before. I'm careful to play lightly, using short bow strokes and the least amount of pressure needed to get a decent tone, rather than grinding the notes out.
I might also try several different approaches to the bowing, but I'd try to settle on the most comfortable approach and stick with it. In this case, I bow it:
(3down-up-down, slur up on the ed, down on B, up d, down g, up b, down a, up f, down d, slur up f to e2.
For both fingering and bowing, it helped me to consciously commit to the e string for the gbaf phrase rather than anticipating too much the return to the d.
Now I know this looks like a dissection diagram of the inside of a cat, when what you want is a live, purring kitten. But in real time, it won't take that long to break the trouble spot into it's components, isolate the 2-4 notes that are the stumbling block, and repeat them for 5-10 minutes. [WARNING: SOAP BOX RHETORIC AHEAD!] And I think too many musicians limit themselves when they give up on a tune if it doesn't just flow onto the fingers the way their mentor plays it at the session. Chances are, the mentor had to woodshed on it to get it sounding so smooth and easy. It's okay to really concentrate and dog a tune, playing it for an hour straight. Dr. Gilbert's is a great tune. Start a conversation with it and I'll bet most of us will run out of things to say before it does--it's full of personality, intriguing twists and turns and surprises. Is an hour of woodshedding too intense? Well, ask yourself, did your first date last more than an hour? How well did you get to know that person? I'm suggesting that building a relationship with a great tune is worth a similar investment in time and attentiveness.
Hope this helps, Crusty.
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Thanks Will, That's a systematic and thorough approach. Lots of times the components
aren't difficult but puting them together in context is. Your version is slightly different than mine
so I might try yours.
When I have bowing problems I go back to single strokes, no slurring just to get the phrase down
and add slurs later if they seem natural. I'm naturally a little lazy so slurring is my preferred course.
A lot of my problems come from my not using the fourth finger enough and thus more string
crossings than necessary. More to work on. Now I'm curious about Tommy's Tarbukas and
of other "rights of passage" fiddle tunes. Thanks again.
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Crusty
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Hey, I guarantee that after Tommy's Tarbukas, ol' Dr. Gilberts will feel easy....
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Lord, I tried playing Tommy's again yesterday after all the discussion -- damn, that thing is hard. It was dreadful. Good thing we never play it at the session. Heh.
Zina
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Sometimes (usually when I really love the tune) I
keep practicing until I got it, some others I simply give it up and surprisingly enough, after a
while, I pick up the whistle and .. there it is!!
Toni, that has rarely been my experience but it has happened. Usually the reverse is true. I
learned the Silver Spire about a month ago. Somebody played it at the session and I couldn't
get it to kick in for the life of me. But on a better note, I played a tune that I had never "learned".
I knew it from week after week osmosis. Those are the golden moments.
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Crusty
Re: When you hit a roadblock
Daver, didn't mean to ingore your request for tips on playing T. Tarbukas, and now that Zina has reminded me....
I'm assuming it's the B Part phrase (remember flat your B's and E's): |Acfe dbfd| that ties most of us into knots. For me, that's mostly a fingering problem--I broke my left pinky twice as a kid (really crushed it once), so it audibly clicks when I bend it, and it's not as straight or strong as it should be. Shortcomings that T.Tarbukas really throws the spotlight on. And I credit that phrase with doing more to strengthen my left hand fingers than anything else I've ever done. I must've played those 8 notes 3,000 times when I was trying to learn this tune. Just isolated that phrase and flogged the heck out of it. Eventually, my pinky developed some independence and stamina. Not enough to sound like Alisdair Fraser, but now and then the tune actually works. Try it. It's worth it. It will make all your pinky work sound better (Part B of Connaughtman's Rambles will be on pitch! Calliope House won't sound like Michael Coleman's piano player....)
Would it help to see some bowing suggestions?
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: When you hit a roadblock
RE: Tommy's Tarbukas, Ah, the unorthodox key dilemna. I think this is what drove me from learning Galway Bay. By
the way I thought a minor key differed in that the 3rd note was flatted. In Tommy's the E is taken
down a notch as well. More theory for me. Anyway Will, odd that you mentioned Calliope House,
I was taught it in the key of D. It plays very well in D and I have since found out it is played mostly in E.
Should I join the insanity and learn it in E as well?
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Crusty
Re: When you hit a roadblock
You already have learned it, Crusty, you just play it in a different key. *grin* I had the same problem with Calliope House. Luckily, we don't play it that much, so the key difference never comes up. Heh.
I once heard of a session (probably from somebody here) in which people would have several weirdo key tunes ready just in case a player showed up that they wanted to either show up or show off to or get rid of. If they wore out their welcome, they'd tear into those tunes until the offending element went to the bar.
Probably not the friendliest way of dealing with it, but certainly one way of using those weird key and time change tunes. Heh.
Zina
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: When you hit a roadblock
It it gives me comfort to know that I'm not the only one who struggles with certain tunes. I put it down to not starting to play the fiddle until just past my 40th birthday. I do do play for a barn dance group regularly so I've managed some degree of success. Some good tips about how to cope with a difficult tune, I quite often intend to play "that difficult tune" every night until I get it. Tunes that I have intended to practice hard include :-
Lady Mary Hayes (Scots measure)
Tommy Tarbukas
Lads of Loise (spelling?)
plus many others
Then later on I realise that I haven't tried them for ages, I must write a list and stick it up on my notice board and look at it. Trouble is I like to warm up for about 20 minutes or so with tunes i know well, then I usually have some new barn dance tunes to work on and then if I remember/have time/ am not disturbed maybe get time to practice one one of the hard tunes! too many tunes not enough time. That tune "Caliope House", what a great tune, I have it in E but I thought that our session players would complain a bit so we play it in D, we also inculde in a set for the barn dance group, goes down very well. Must get on with some work.
# Posted on March 27th 2002 by Daver
Re: When you hit a roadblock
We should ask Dave Richardson (Boys of the Lough) what key he originally composed Calliope House in. Anyone have an email address for him? Do they have a web site? I have an ancient (and no doubt faulty) recollection of them doing it in E.
.
When I learn tunes in odd (for ITM) keys, I usually get them into G, D, or A and their relative modes too, just so I don't totally annoy the fixed key players in our group. I know a tune better if I know it in more than one key. So when I learned the Morning Star in Martin Hayes' key of F, I also put it into the more common session key of G right away. It almost sounds like two different tunes. And it's nice to be ready when someone starts it off in the "odd" key (which, if I'm the "offending element," makes me harder to get rid of
One way to work up to T. Tarbukas is to learn Eileen Curran first. It has many similar phrases and stretches and is a great tune in its own right. But you don't have to worry about those flatted e's. I often use Curran as a warm up for Tarbukas, desperately hoping to increase my chances of surviving Tommy's B Part. Oh well.
# Posted on March 28th 2002 by Will Harmon