whilst watching the titanic yesterday i heard some lovely irish tunes which were played by a band in the thirdclass room onboard the ship. i think one was the kesh and another drowsy maggie but does anyone know what the others where??
Take a look at the Celtic Storm site. They're the band. I think just about everything's on one of their albums, or at least the soundtrack to the movie. John Ryan's Polka, I think...I've never seen the movie. I refused to go. I couldn't deal. *grin*
Why do we traditional music types hate our own music when it gets popular? It's like we
shoot ourselves in the foot. Whenever something comes along that has the potential to
make our music more available and accepted, we don't like it. For many folks, Titanic
or Ned Devine or whatever, gave them their first point of reference and exposure to ITM.
It seems that we think, "I'm into real ITM and this guy just knows about it from a movie."
New fans and players often result from this exposure. Maybe only 2 of the eleventy billon
people that saw the Titanic will actually be inspired to get an instrument and learn to play,
but hey that's great! I'm not just picking on ITM. It appears that this happens in lots of
Trad music. .... There, I feel better now.
I don't mind if the music becomes popular, but I'm not thrilled when it's "popularlized." There's a difference.
Most of the time I like it when ITM is included in movies--I thought Waking Ned Devine did a great job of presenting some tunes, and even relatively corny movies like the Devil's Own when a roomful of musicians breeze through a simple version of Lark in the Morning. I avoided Titanic becuase my back goes nuts if I sit for three hours without a break, and I'm not a big fan of teenybopper actors (Winslet and DiCaprio). Besides, I already knew how it ends.....
hehehehe....Will, you're my hero...that last is EXACTLY what I keep telling my husband! *snicker* Weirdly, he loves that movie and is always after me to watch it with him. Weird gender role switch, yeah? *snort*
I saw the movie & thought it was pretty good, especially when compared to the constant barage of crap Hollywood is pumping out to fill all of the 20 theater cinema's opening up at every soul-less cloverleaf.
As far as the music - it wanked, big time. It sounded like a bunch of very drunk beginers trying to play as fast as they can.(From what I heard that was pretty much what it was). I have no problem with the music being popularized if it's music vindicitive of what is considered "good", but 9 times out of 10 it's doo-doo forcefully placed into a plot for the sake of "Oirish".
*blink* Brad? Is that you? Who are you, and what have you done with Brad!?! *snort* Just teasing. You've unexpected depths, O my curmudgeon! I dunno. I've heard a couple of tracks off their albums (and have to love anything named "herding cats"), and they sounded okay, if not exactly the pure drop. But then, I never saw the movie, so maybe the recordings are better than the "steerage" sound.
I just have a problem with story lines that do the whole Hollywood "the poor people are cool, fun-loving people who know how to live and know what's important, and the rich people aren't." I guess it's that bleeding-heart liberal side of me that wants things to be fair. heh.
By the way, Brad, how's the baby? Mustn't be much of a baby anymore, yeah?
Mad Bloney's comments are unfair. The musicianship is good though the tunes are common. The Blarney Pilgrim was played, as was Planxty's polkas, the Kesh and a few others.
I picked up a Celtic Storm album last week and I didn't find them all that terrible. The story I heard is that a talent scout working for the Titanic movie saw Celtic Storm at a pub and selected them because they didn't sound extremely proffesional. (Imagine getting a movie gig just because your band didn't sound very good! Ouch!) The movie producers thought the 3rd class party scene would be more 'believable' if the sound was energetic but a bit on the rough side.
I have to pitch in here as I may be the only contributor who has seen the band live. Titanic band fans, read no further and avoid being offended by words as hard as a North Atlantic iceberg. During a stay in LA some years ago, I got to hear Gaelic Storm on at least 3 different pre-Titanic occasions. I went first because the gig was advertised as a " traditional Irish session with Gaelic Storm", so, like an eejit, I turned up expecting to play a few tunes with fellow trad devotees. What a shock! Jaw-droppingly bad "traditional" music played by four or five very poor musicians (I use that latter word very loosely). They were permanently out of tune and even played two different jigs simultaneously -- I am not joking! They had clearly never been trained in, had no interest in learning or had not got the ability to master the basic playing techniques on pipes, fiddle, whistle and bodhran -- those being some of the instruments I remember in the line-up. Then came the movie which gave this sub-mediocre outfit an "international" launch. If they made some money out of the movie, fair play to them! If they are making a few quid gigging in pubs, that's fine. But if they are still advertising/ selling themselves as traditional Irish musicians and are regarded as such by the naive or ignorant, then I have deep reservations. The performances I witnessed were sheer Paddy Whackery with the tuneless belting out of common drinking songs, already done to death by a thousand other more talented ballad groups, and the guzzling of pints on stage. As I recall, the lead singer took pride in knocking back a pint of Guinness in one gulp as the fans clapped furiously and the bodhran player walloped away in the background. Surely, we are all fed up with this kind of Oirishry? Maybe, in the passing years, they have gotten one or two musicians in who can actually play traditional music or can rope in superior guest musicians for their recordings. But if anyone claiming an interest in traditional music is spending money on Gaelic Storm CDs, you need to re-define your notion of Irish traditional music. Or get your head examined. I suggest both. Suffice it to say that Gaelic Storm are regarded as a bunch of wankers in Ireland. So, if you are one of their fans, just keep that as your little secret on your next visit. And try not to be too disappointed when you encounter authentic Irish trad. But the name,Gaelic Storm, is appropriate, because, as you say in the US, they blow!
Yeeps. Well, gosh. Sure hope none of the Gaelic Storm gang have been lurking round here. *grin* I have to honestly say that I've no idea what Gaelic Storm is like in a live performance. Their recordings are okay from what I've heard, but not my personal favorites, and I've never rushed out to get one -- however, I do know people who are quite fond of the things, although they're not musicians or players.
Err...just thought it might be worth pointing out that this is a VERY small community world wide here, folks. Everyone is of course entitled to their own point of view and opinions, but it might be worth remembering that you never know who knows who in the world of ITM. Fair play to you if you wouldn't cavil at the foregoing rant in someone's face in person, but if you wouldn't do it in person, no real reason to do it online.
I've rediscovered this "who do we both know" thing over and over again. Even Paddy Keenan and I had acquaintances in common all over the place, as unlikely as this might seem at first glance. Sooooooo, not to come off all preachy and saintly here (Lord knows it wouldn't play!), but....might want to be a tad more cautious about making sweeping statements, especially when they make assumptions about what other players think or believe.
Boy, Zina came across as very preachy and saintly but the larger issue at hand as Carrmuse suggested is: do ITM types shun popularized tunes and take reguge in more obscure tunes just to be contrary?
Geesh, I'm tempted to mention some central Europeans from the mid-20th century just to invoke Godwin's Law again and get this thread shut down. What a waste of time....
Last word on it. Zina, I don't believe it's a rant. It's an opinion, a considered opinion based on personal observation by a veteran native player. Believe me, I have nothing against them personally, just their music which is confused with trad music (what most of the members of The Session play/ listen to?) by their devotees. As for offending them, their fans or others, who's afraid of a good argument? It's in the genes! I can't help it! Maybe they've gotten better. Maybe they have learned something. Maybe their act has improved. Maybe they're lucky to be able to make a living in the US playing Irish music which most players/ trad freaks in my circles dislike. I really don't mind. I am afraid my ma did not raise any shrinking violets and I care too much about the music not to try to proselytize. I do not deliberately insult people, but I am not worried if I offend the sensitive by offering a personal opinion which they are just as free to reject / attack. I thought the Gaelic Storm I heard live and in the movie were awful musicians.Other people think they're wonderful -- fine! By the way, I have in the past put my opinions in print with name and address attached. For me, it has nothing to do with musical snobbery, common or obscure tunes, just bad playing, tiresome musical stereotyping and the assumption that what Gaelic Storm sell (or sold in the past) is authentic traditional Irish music. Anyway, it seems to be a mostly Irish-American issue, though it has to be admitted that traditional Irish music is still pretty much a minority interest even in Ireland.
Funnily enough, I caught a snippet of Titanic whilst calling in on somebody last weekend - they had it on video, and I just happened to drop by when the "ceilidh" scene was on (just having come from a session, as it happens). The band reminded me somewhat of the "ceilidh" band I play with. In a word, we can play to the satisfaction of our mostly non-Irish clientelle, but we never rehearse, and I certainly wouldn't buy our records, if anyone were prepared to record us. I hate to reveal this sad fact about myself, that I earn money by desecrating a tradition which isn't even my own. But I look at our gigs just as structured sessions - with the added entertainment value of 100 tipsy wedding guests trying to dance The Siege of Ennis.
hehehehe....David, what a lovely mental picture that is...I can only imagine the rise-and-grind. Of course, that's one of our jokes -- that ceili dances ("ceilidh" is the Scottish Gaelic spelling) are so simple mainly because you have to be able to remember them when you're drunk.
I once danced The Siege at a weekly ceili at a fairly famous pub. In a line opposite to me was someone doing a version of the rise-and-grind that was simply so amazing that I had to firmly remind myself it wasn't polite to stare. I didn't realize someone's knee could move in such varied directions, or that a foot could end up in the most amazing places.
At our St. Pat's shows, we always have audience participation dances if the audience is at all able. It's not unusual for us to do the world's slowest Round the House versions at some of the care facilities. The first couple of times, you're so busy trying to dance at half the speed that you don't notice how farcical the circle looks! Heh.
Zina
Regardless, they're enjoying themselves, so who am I to laugh, I guess! Hehehe.
Zina & Will: I don't think LongNotes post was out of line. He put plenty of disclaimers in it for me to know what he was about. I am greatful for a stong opinion, whether I share it or not.
On that score: I met Steve Wehmayer, the bodhran player from Gaelic Storm the other day. He came down to our session after a Gaelic Storm gig (he knows one of our fiddlers from college). I got to chat with him quite a bit. And if it's any comfort to you, LongNote: They were as surprised as anyone that they got the Titanic gig, and they don't think of themselves as Traditional Irish Musicians (capital letters). In fact, he seemed to be well aware that esp. the Titanic/first album stuff wasn't Seamus Ennis, or Altan for that matter. I haven't been following their stuff, but apparently they added a fiddler/whistler to the line up who is good (and I don't know if that means steeped in the tradition).
I really liked him: He was nice and it was fun to have him. He sat in the back and his bodhran playing was a whole lot better than what I am used to from sessions (he may have improved over the past years). And here is a guilty admission: We played John Ryans (yes, we're hacks), and it was fun to hear him play the bodhran on that: Sounded like the track on LP (I refused/refuse to see the movie), which was a thrill, even though it is not my ambition as a musician (and I also use that term loosely) to sound like Gaelic Storm).
One last thing: Will, could you explain your reference to "some central Europeans from the mid-20th century"? I am afraid I am also unfamiliar with Godwin's law. I'd just like to know what it means so I know whether I ought to be upset by that post. =)
Just a thought: maybe the casting people from Titanic wanted to have a band that sounded like a bunch of normal drunk folks having fun. If they picked up the Chieftains with guest player Sir James Galway, it wouldn't have sounded right, would it?
Bloomfield,
On a previous thread where comments went over the top (in Jeremy's esteemed estimation), he ended the thread by posting a link to Godwin's Law. It was funny and edifying and well worth the side trip there. I was simply suggesting a similar end to this thread if it continued on it's band-bashing course. To understand my (for the most part, tongue-in-cheek) reference to "central Europeans from the mid-20th century," go to http://www.godwinslaw.com/ and all will become clear....
Whether it really matters to anyone else here or not, I have two objections to the way Longnote posted his opinions:
First, I thought it was unnecessarily harsh. Probably not the kind of feedback you'd give in person, face to face, to the band members themselves, and yet we shouldn't assume that they won't log on here and read those comments. As Zina said, ITM is a relatively small community, and The Session is gaining a reputation within that community as a fun place to visit. Not if you're in Gaelic Storm and you happen across this thread
Second, and more personally, I come to The Session for good tunes and good crack. While Longnote's post wasn't entirely without humor, with a little effort he might have made it truly funny, taken the edge off the nastiness, and still gotten his basic opinion across. I happened to read it first thing one morning and it was a bit like finding an ashtray dumped into my scrambled eggs. Not the usual friendly banter I'm looking for when I come to this site.
Not that I'm thinned skinned. But I do believe how we communicate significantly affects how human beings behave toward each other, and the tone we set tends to be contagious (sort of the whole point of a session, if you think about it). I'd rather set a more cheerful, welcoming tone. The tone set by Longnote on that post (elsewhere, s/he has come across as very pleasant) could be the sort of thing that convinces someone else to NOT submit a tune to the Session's Mighty Crack recording, or to think twice about sitting in at a realworld session for fear of being hyper-criticized. I just think that's a shame and, again, unnecessary on this site.
Maybe Longnote's critique wouldn't have bothered me if it were delivered with a smile down at the local pub between tunes. But here it sits, a little out of context (this thread was originally about the *tunes* from the movie, not the band who played them, not that being off-topic has ever stopped any of us from joining in these conversations *grin*), and waiting grumpily to ambush anyone who happens along, for as long as the site stays up (forever, with any luck!). Not a terrible sin in the grand scheme of things, but one that could have been easily avoided.
*sigh* Well, since you're addressing me personally, Bloomfield, first let me tell you all something that might not be entirely clear from my posts -- I am *not* a Nice Person; I am definitely of the "If you don't have something nice to say, come sit here by me" persuasion. I am a very caring, and very helpful (a former boyfriend once used to refer to me as "almost too helpful") person, but I am definitely not a Nice person. I love gossip. I love funny little malicious comments. (Ask Dirk. I've gotten him so good it once took him a full thirty seconds to regain his speech. *grin*)
But talk is cheap, especially if it's in private and among friends who care enough about me to disregard these character faults, and these posts are semi-permanent and altogether public among strangers. I don't care if anyone thinks anyone is a terrible musician -- Lord knows I hold my own strong opinions about these things and have aired them to trusted friends -- but this IS a very small community world-wide. I would never put any of my "funny" little comments down in permanent format, because the people who read them wouldn't necessarily be my friends and this isn't a private forum, *and* they probably wouldn't find the comments funny. And it could negatively impact my relations with players I've never even met before -- and some that I see every week.
If you were a member of Gaelic Storm and read that post, what would your overall impression, without ever having met this person, be of him/her? And what if you found out who this person was by coincidence? And if you had that person visit your surrounds and home territory/session, how would you probably treat that person, at least behind their back? And, and this is the important part to me, who do you know that you tell this about who trusts your opinion of other people and will now share your own opinion of this person?
I know lots of curmudgeonly players, by the way. It doesn't lessen my opinion of them as players in the slightest. Maybe as people, perhaps. We all know people who are fantastically good at what they do but who are so socially inept that you wouldn't want to spend a Sunday afternoon with them over a pint much less call them a friend.
I was talking once to a quite famous Irish player, and I happened to mention a certain music critic. The player's face grew quite severe, and they then mentioned a very gentle, elderly, and lovely player's name who had died recently. He had died, they swore, from a broken heart, because the critic had roundly panned the player's only album, made at the end of his life as what he was leaving of his music to the world, which the person I was speaking to said was really quite lovely. Though the player had never met the critic in person, the player didn't think much of him as a person.
Critics take their risks for their public opinions and standards, and that's a whole 'nother subject not to be got into here. I'm a player. And I've no wish to have anyone think of me with the kind of personal vindictive disapproval that this very famous player had for that critic.
I am a beginner and not Irish in the slightest, and I have enough hurdles to overcome to become a good player and accepted by other players. I don't need to make it harder for myself socially, my natural faults will do that for me. Anybody else can do as they choose. As a "veteran native player" or indeed as simply a person of his/her own mind, LongNote can do as s/he chooses, just as any of us can. If one really wishes for one's reputation to be as someone who speaks their mind quite like this, that's fine, it's your lookout, and now I know that about LongNote, whoever s/he may be.
What I said on another thread (about treating people the same online as face to face) is still quite true for me. I consider this to be another session that I attend, for all the fact that it's virtual. And I consider part of the responsibility of being a good session member is to help keep things reasonably a good time. So Jeremy's "be civil" rule is my cup of tea. (This is all just part of defining "civil" after all.)
Fair play to LongNote if s/he'd speak like this to Gaelic Storm's faces (and Bloomfield, that would mean Steve's face, you know), and s/he made that clear. But, the more I talk to really great players, the more that I begin to think that the music is there and always will be in one form or another, and it's a great part of our lives, and yes, I fiercely care about it and have passion for it, never doubt it -- but I also believe that we as people still have our obligations to ourselves to be able to have respect for the things we've done and said to other people. At the end of the day, the music isn't as important as the people, as grumpy as that makes me feel. (The music is certainly easier to deal with than people, anyway.)
So, end of my own rant, and can we be done with this thread now?
Nothing wrong with John Ryan's, Bloomfield. Except that it's a polka. *grin*
Very good, Zina! I think as a professional writer you have a much better grasp of the power and danger of putting things in writing than most of the rest of us.
BTW, when i said "drunk" a couple of posts up, i didn't mean it as an insult.
I thought this would be a great title for a thread talking about the Titanic. By the way, they're putting up that Titanic exhibit here in the US again. Maybe this time they brought up a bodhran or two.
Hey, got a virtual and an actual sigh out of Will and Zina! An accomplishment.
Will, I really liked your post, especially the bit about humor & taking the edge off. Liked the image of the ashtray and the scrambled eggs (funny, I usually visualize that with sunny-side-up eggs...). BTW, I like your posts for being so well-written, although they tend to be a bit heavy on Kevin Burke anectotes and bowing patterns.
Zina, I see your point entirely. Maybe I don't follow the discussions at The Session closely enough to have recognized your posts as the result of a building frustration.
I followed the link to Godwin's Law and *do* understand completely. Very funny.
On balance, I think I'd rather read a rant like LongNote's than another poster asking about the great "Celtic" musician, Celine Dion, and the music for My Heart Will Go On (or whatever that thing is called). :-o
Well, sorry about all the spoiled breakfasts and undigested ashtrays. It is the most important meal of the day after all. I can certainly accept any criticisms fired at me, but I will no longer stand for the defamation of John Ryan's Polka which I spent a good ten minutes of my life learning at least a hundred years ago -- scratching my new Planxty record in the process. An innocent, simple, jolly, but oh-so-tired litttle tune. Fed up with it? Then do as we used to do in the six-week wonder called the Kreuzberger Ceili Band which featured famed Altan member Ciaran Curran on cittern. Know that long high A in the second part? Well, have everybody play any note they want except that note. Result? Instant traditional fun with the "Bum Note Polka", a guaranteed crowd-pleaser which allows you to both play the tune, amuse the punters and express your indifference simultaneously. By the way, here are other words and phrases I like as well as "rant" -- harangue, screed, bombast, blather, frenzied ravings.
Oh, boy, we've got to try the Bum-Note Polka at our session. Sounds like good fun. And that original Planxty set with Dennis Murphy's/42-pound check/John Ryan's is still the classic and definitive polka set, I think.
tunes from titanic!!!
tunes from titanic!!!
whilst watching the titanic yesterday i heard some lovely irish tunes which were played by a band in the thirdclass room onboard the ship. i think one was the kesh and another drowsy maggie but does anyone know what the others where??
all the best
briggfoot
# Posted on March 24th 2002 by briggfoot
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Take a look at the Celtic Storm site. They're the band. I think just about everything's on one of their albums, or at least the soundtrack to the movie. John Ryan's Polka, I think...I've never seen the movie. I refused to go. I couldn't deal. *grin*
Zina
# Posted on March 24th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
I've avoided it too, but friends tell me one set includes the Blarney Pilgrim.
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Will Harmon
Actually, I think we've covered this before. Scan back through the discussion threads--it was last summer or fall, I believe.
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/245
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Why do we traditional music types hate our own music when it gets popular? It's like we
shoot ourselves in the foot. Whenever something comes along that has the potential to
make our music more available and accepted, we don't like it. For many folks, Titanic
or Ned Devine or whatever, gave them their first point of reference and exposure to ITM.
It seems that we think, "I'm into real ITM and this guy just knows about it from a movie."
New fans and players often result from this exposure. Maybe only 2 of the eleventy billon
people that saw the Titanic will actually be inspired to get an instrument and learn to play,
but hey that's great! I'm not just picking on ITM. It appears that this happens in lots of
Trad music. .... There, I feel better now.
Joe
Joe
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Carrmuse
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
I don't mind if the music becomes popular, but I'm not thrilled when it's "popularlized." There's a difference.
Most of the time I like it when ITM is included in movies--I thought Waking Ned Devine did a great job of presenting some tunes, and even relatively corny movies like the Devil's Own when a roomful of musicians breeze through a simple version of Lark in the Morning. I avoided Titanic becuase my back goes nuts if I sit for three hours without a break, and I'm not a big fan of teenybopper actors (Winslet and DiCaprio). Besides, I already knew how it ends.....
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
hehehehe....Will, you're my hero...that last is EXACTLY what I keep telling my husband! *snicker* Weirdly, he loves that movie and is always after me to watch it with him. Weird gender role switch, yeah? *snort*
Zina
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
I saw the movie & thought it was pretty good, especially when compared to the constant barage of crap Hollywood is pumping out to fill all of the 20 theater cinema's opening up at every soul-less cloverleaf.
As far as the music - it wanked, big time. It sounded like a bunch of very drunk beginers trying to play as fast as they can.(From what I heard that was pretty much what it was). I have no problem with the music being popularized if it's music vindicitive of what is considered "good", but 9 times out of 10 it's doo-doo forcefully placed into a plot for the sake of "Oirish".
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
*blink* Brad? Is that you? Who are you, and what have you done with Brad!?! *snort* Just teasing. You've unexpected depths, O my curmudgeon!
I dunno. I've heard a couple of tracks off their albums (and have to love anything named "herding cats"), and they sounded okay, if not exactly the pure drop. But then, I never saw the movie, so maybe the recordings are better than the "steerage" sound.
I just have a problem with story lines that do the whole Hollywood "the poor people are cool, fun-loving people who know how to live and know what's important, and the rich people aren't." I guess it's that bleeding-heart liberal side of me that wants things to be fair. heh.
By the way, Brad, how's the baby? Mustn't be much of a baby anymore, yeah?
Zina
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
I'm with you on this one Brad, every time I hear this band play I thank God for Icebergs.
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Backer
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Mad Bloney's comments are unfair. The musicianship is good though the tunes are common. The Blarney Pilgrim was played, as was Planxty's polkas, the Kesh and a few others.
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by lukegarry
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
I picked up a Celtic Storm album last week and I didn't find them all that terrible. The story I heard is that a talent scout working for the Titanic movie saw Celtic Storm at a pub and selected them because they didn't sound extremely proffesional. (Imagine getting a movie gig just because your band didn't sound very good! Ouch!) The movie producers thought the 3rd class party scene would be more 'believable' if the sound was energetic but a bit on the rough side.
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
I have to pitch in here as I may be the only contributor who has seen the band live. Titanic band fans, read no further and avoid being offended by words as hard as a North Atlantic iceberg. During a stay in LA some years ago, I got to hear Gaelic Storm on at least 3 different pre-Titanic occasions. I went first because the gig was advertised as a " traditional Irish session with Gaelic Storm", so, like an eejit, I turned up expecting to play a few tunes with fellow trad devotees. What a shock! Jaw-droppingly bad "traditional" music played by four or five very poor musicians (I use that latter word very loosely). They were permanently out of tune and even played two different jigs simultaneously -- I am not joking! They had clearly never been trained in, had no interest in learning or had not got the ability to master the basic playing techniques on pipes, fiddle, whistle and bodhran -- those being some of the instruments I remember in the line-up. Then came the movie which gave this sub-mediocre outfit an "international" launch. If they made some money out of the movie, fair play to them! If they are making a few quid gigging in pubs, that's fine. But if they are still advertising/ selling themselves as traditional Irish musicians and are regarded as such by the naive or ignorant, then I have deep reservations. The performances I witnessed were sheer Paddy Whackery with the tuneless belting out of common drinking songs, already done to death by a thousand other more talented ballad groups, and the guzzling of pints on stage. As I recall, the lead singer took pride in knocking back a pint of Guinness in one gulp as the fans clapped furiously and the bodhran player walloped away in the background. Surely, we are all fed up with this kind of Oirishry? Maybe, in the passing years, they have gotten one or two musicians in who can actually play traditional music or can rope in superior guest musicians for their recordings. But if anyone claiming an interest in traditional music is spending money on Gaelic Storm CDs, you need to re-define your notion of Irish traditional music. Or get your head examined. I suggest both. Suffice it to say that Gaelic Storm are regarded as a bunch of wankers in Ireland. So, if you are one of their fans, just keep that as your little secret on your next visit. And try not to be too disappointed when you encounter authentic Irish trad. But the name,Gaelic Storm, is appropriate, because, as you say in the US, they blow!
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by LongNote
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Yeeps. Well, gosh. Sure hope none of the Gaelic Storm gang have been lurking round here. *grin* I have to honestly say that I've no idea what Gaelic Storm is like in a live performance. Their recordings are okay from what I've heard, but not my personal favorites, and I've never rushed out to get one -- however, I do know people who are quite fond of the things, although they're not musicians or players.
Err...just thought it might be worth pointing out that this is a VERY small community world wide here, folks. Everyone is of course entitled to their own point of view and opinions, but it might be worth remembering that you never know who knows who in the world of ITM. Fair play to you if you wouldn't cavil at the foregoing rant in someone's face in person, but if you wouldn't do it in person, no real reason to do it online.
I've rediscovered this "who do we both know" thing over and over again. Even Paddy Keenan and I had acquaintances in common all over the place, as unlikely as this might seem at first glance. Sooooooo, not to come off all preachy and saintly here (Lord knows it wouldn't play!), but....might want to be a tad more cautious about making sweeping statements, especially when they make assumptions about what other players think or believe.
Zina
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Boy, Zina came across as very preachy and saintly but the larger issue at hand as Carrmuse suggested is: do ITM types shun popularized tunes and take reguge in more obscure tunes just to be contrary?
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Crusty
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Geesh, I'm tempted to mention some central Europeans from the mid-20th century just to invoke Godwin's Law again and get this thread shut down. What a waste of time....
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Last word on it. Zina, I don't believe it's a rant. It's an opinion, a considered opinion based on personal observation by a veteran native player. Believe me, I have nothing against them personally, just their music which is confused with trad music (what most of the members of The Session play/ listen to?) by their devotees. As for offending them, their fans or others, who's afraid of a good argument? It's in the genes! I can't help it! Maybe they've gotten better. Maybe they have learned something. Maybe their act has improved. Maybe they're lucky to be able to make a living in the US playing Irish music which most players/ trad freaks in my circles dislike. I really don't mind. I am afraid my ma did not raise any shrinking violets and I care too much about the music not to try to proselytize. I do not deliberately insult people, but I am not worried if I offend the sensitive by offering a personal opinion which they are just as free to reject / attack. I thought the Gaelic Storm I heard live and in the movie were awful musicians.Other people think they're wonderful -- fine! By the way, I have in the past put my opinions in print with name and address attached. For me, it has nothing to do with musical snobbery, common or obscure tunes, just bad playing, tiresome musical stereotyping and the assumption that what Gaelic Storm sell (or sold in the past) is authentic traditional Irish music. Anyway, it seems to be a mostly Irish-American issue, though it has to be admitted that traditional Irish music is still pretty much a minority interest even in Ireland.
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by LongNote
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
wow, cheers guys anf girls for the quick responce. using the ABC tune finder thing i now have all the tunes that were played.
all the best
briggfoot
# Posted on March 25th 2002 by briggfoot
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Funnily enough, I caught a snippet of Titanic whilst calling in on somebody last weekend - they had it on video, and I just happened to drop by when the "ceilidh" scene was on (just having come from a session, as it happens). The band reminded me somewhat of the "ceilidh" band I play with. In a word, we can play to the satisfaction of our mostly non-Irish clientelle, but we never rehearse, and I certainly wouldn't buy our records, if anyone were prepared to record us. I hate to reveal this sad fact about myself, that I earn money by desecrating a tradition which isn't even my own. But I look at our gigs just as structured sessions - with the added entertainment value of 100 tipsy wedding guests trying to dance The Siege of Ennis.
# Posted on March 30th 2002 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
hehehehe....David, what a lovely mental picture that is...I can only imagine the rise-and-grind. Of course, that's one of our jokes -- that ceili dances ("ceilidh" is the Scottish Gaelic spelling) are so simple mainly because you have to be able to remember them when you're drunk.
I once danced The Siege at a weekly ceili at a fairly famous pub. In a line opposite to me was someone doing a version of the rise-and-grind that was simply so amazing that I had to firmly remind myself it wasn't polite to stare. I didn't realize someone's knee could move in such varied directions, or that a foot could end up in the most amazing places.
At our St. Pat's shows, we always have audience participation dances if the audience is at all able. It's not unusual for us to do the world's slowest Round the House versions at some of the care facilities. The first couple of times, you're so busy trying to dance at half the speed that you don't notice how farcical the circle looks! Heh.
Zina
Regardless, they're enjoying themselves, so who am I to laugh, I guess! Hehehe.
# Posted on March 31st 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Zina & Will: I don't think LongNotes post was out of line. He put plenty of disclaimers in it for me to know what he was about. I am greatful for a stong opinion, whether I share it or not.
On that score: I met Steve Wehmayer, the bodhran player from Gaelic Storm the other day. He came down to our session after a Gaelic Storm gig (he knows one of our fiddlers from college). I got to chat with him quite a bit. And if it's any comfort to you, LongNote: They were as surprised as anyone that they got the Titanic gig, and they don't think of themselves as Traditional Irish Musicians (capital letters). In fact, he seemed to be well aware that esp. the Titanic/first album stuff wasn't Seamus Ennis, or Altan for that matter. I haven't been following their stuff, but apparently they added a fiddler/whistler to the line up who is good (and I don't know if that means steeped in the tradition).
I really liked him: He was nice and it was fun to have him. He sat in the back and his bodhran playing was a whole lot better than what I am used to from sessions (he may have improved over the past years). And here is a guilty admission: We played John Ryans (yes, we're hacks), and it was fun to hear him play the bodhran on that: Sounded like the track on LP (I refused/refuse to see the movie), which was a thrill, even though it is not my ambition as a musician (and I also use that term loosely) to sound like Gaelic Storm).
One last thing: Will, could you explain your reference to "some central Europeans from the mid-20th century"? I am afraid I am also unfamiliar with Godwin's law. I'd just like to know what it means so I know whether I ought to be upset by that post. =)
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Just a thought: maybe the casting people from Titanic wanted to have a band that sounded like a bunch of normal drunk folks having fun. If they picked up the Chieftains with guest player Sir James Galway, it wouldn't have sounded right, would it?
g
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by glauber
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Bloomfield,
On a previous thread where comments went over the top (in Jeremy's esteemed estimation), he ended the thread by posting a link to Godwin's Law. It was funny and edifying and well worth the side trip there. I was simply suggesting a similar end to this thread if it continued on it's band-bashing course. To understand my (for the most part, tongue-in-cheek) reference to "central Europeans from the mid-20th century," go to http://www.godwinslaw.com/ and all will become clear....
Whether it really matters to anyone else here or not, I have two objections to the way Longnote posted his opinions:
First, I thought it was unnecessarily harsh. Probably not the kind of feedback you'd give in person, face to face, to the band members themselves, and yet we shouldn't assume that they won't log on here and read those comments. As Zina said, ITM is a relatively small community, and The Session is gaining a reputation within that community as a fun place to visit. Not if you're in Gaelic Storm and you happen across this thread
Second, and more personally, I come to The Session for good tunes and good crack. While Longnote's post wasn't entirely without humor, with a little effort he might have made it truly funny, taken the edge off the nastiness, and still gotten his basic opinion across. I happened to read it first thing one morning and it was a bit like finding an ashtray dumped into my scrambled eggs. Not the usual friendly banter I'm looking for when I come to this site.
Not that I'm thinned skinned. But I do believe how we communicate significantly affects how human beings behave toward each other, and the tone we set tends to be contagious (sort of the whole point of a session, if you think about it). I'd rather set a more cheerful, welcoming tone. The tone set by Longnote on that post (elsewhere, s/he has come across as very pleasant) could be the sort of thing that convinces someone else to NOT submit a tune to the Session's Mighty Crack recording, or to think twice about sitting in at a realworld session for fear of being hyper-criticized. I just think that's a shame and, again, unnecessary on this site.
Maybe Longnote's critique wouldn't have bothered me if it were delivered with a smile down at the local pub between tunes. But here it sits, a little out of context (this thread was originally about the *tunes* from the movie, not the band who played them, not that being off-topic has ever stopped any of us from joining in these conversations *grin*), and waiting grumpily to ambush anyone who happens along, for as long as the site stays up (forever, with any luck!). Not a terrible sin in the grand scheme of things, but one that could have been easily avoided.
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
*sigh* Well, since you're addressing me personally, Bloomfield, first let me tell you all something that might not be entirely clear from my posts -- I am *not* a Nice Person; I am definitely of the "If you don't have something nice to say, come sit here by me" persuasion. I am a very caring, and very helpful (a former boyfriend once used to refer to me as "almost too helpful") person, but I am definitely not a Nice person. I love gossip. I love funny little malicious comments. (Ask Dirk. I've gotten him so good it once took him a full thirty seconds to regain his speech. *grin*)
But talk is cheap, especially if it's in private and among friends who care enough about me to disregard these character faults, and these posts are semi-permanent and altogether public among strangers. I don't care if anyone thinks anyone is a terrible musician -- Lord knows I hold my own strong opinions about these things and have aired them to trusted friends -- but this IS a very small community world-wide. I would never put any of my "funny" little comments down in permanent format, because the people who read them wouldn't necessarily be my friends and this isn't a private forum, *and* they probably wouldn't find the comments funny. And it could negatively impact my relations with players I've never even met before -- and some that I see every week.
If you were a member of Gaelic Storm and read that post, what would your overall impression, without ever having met this person, be of him/her? And what if you found out who this person was by coincidence? And if you had that person visit your surrounds and home territory/session, how would you probably treat that person, at least behind their back? And, and this is the important part to me, who do you know that you tell this about who trusts your opinion of other people and will now share your own opinion of this person?
I know lots of curmudgeonly players, by the way. It doesn't lessen my opinion of them as players in the slightest. Maybe as people, perhaps. We all know people who are fantastically good at what they do but who are so socially inept that you wouldn't want to spend a Sunday afternoon with them over a pint much less call them a friend.
I was talking once to a quite famous Irish player, and I happened to mention a certain music critic. The player's face grew quite severe, and they then mentioned a very gentle, elderly, and lovely player's name who had died recently. He had died, they swore, from a broken heart, because the critic had roundly panned the player's only album, made at the end of his life as what he was leaving of his music to the world, which the person I was speaking to said was really quite lovely. Though the player had never met the critic in person, the player didn't think much of him as a person.
Critics take their risks for their public opinions and standards, and that's a whole 'nother subject not to be got into here. I'm a player. And I've no wish to have anyone think of me with the kind of personal vindictive disapproval that this very famous player had for that critic.
I am a beginner and not Irish in the slightest, and I have enough hurdles to overcome to become a good player and accepted by other players. I don't need to make it harder for myself socially, my natural faults will do that for me. Anybody else can do as they choose. As a "veteran native player" or indeed as simply a person of his/her own mind, LongNote can do as s/he chooses, just as any of us can. If one really wishes for one's reputation to be as someone who speaks their mind quite like this, that's fine, it's your lookout, and now I know that about LongNote, whoever s/he may be.
What I said on another thread (about treating people the same online as face to face) is still quite true for me. I consider this to be another session that I attend, for all the fact that it's virtual. And I consider part of the responsibility of being a good session member is to help keep things reasonably a good time. So Jeremy's "be civil" rule is my cup of tea. (This is all just part of defining "civil" after all.)
Fair play to LongNote if s/he'd speak like this to Gaelic Storm's faces (and Bloomfield, that would mean Steve's face, you know), and s/he made that clear. But, the more I talk to really great players, the more that I begin to think that the music is there and always will be in one form or another, and it's a great part of our lives, and yes, I fiercely care about it and have passion for it, never doubt it -- but I also believe that we as people still have our obligations to ourselves to be able to have respect for the things we've done and said to other people. At the end of the day, the music isn't as important as the people, as grumpy as that makes me feel. (The music is certainly easier to deal with than people, anyway.)
So, end of my own rant, and can we be done with this thread now?
Nothing wrong with John Ryan's, Bloomfield. Except that it's a polka. *grin*
Zina
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Very good, Zina! I think as a professional writer you have a much better grasp of the power and danger of putting things in writing than most of the rest of us.
BTW, when i said "drunk" a couple of posts up, i didn't mean it as an insult.
g
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by glauber
Of ice and men
I thought this would be a great title for a thread talking about the Titanic. By the way, they're putting up that Titanic exhibit here in the US again. Maybe this time they brought up a bodhran or two.
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by glauber
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Hey, got a virtual and an actual sigh out of Will and Zina! An accomplishment.
Will, I really liked your post, especially the bit about humor & taking the edge off. Liked the image of the ashtray and the scrambled eggs (funny, I usually visualize that with sunny-side-up eggs...). BTW, I like your posts for being so well-written, although they tend to be a bit heavy on Kevin Burke anectotes and bowing patterns.
Zina, I see your point entirely. Maybe I don't follow the discussions at The Session closely enough to have recognized your posts as the result of a building frustration.
I followed the link to Godwin's Law and *do* understand completely. Very funny.
On balance, I think I'd rather read a rant like LongNote's than another poster asking about the great "Celtic" musician, Celine Dion, and the music for My Heart Will Go On (or whatever that thing is called). :-o
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by Bloomfield
It's my heart will go on
and on... and on... and on...
# Posted on April 5th 2002 by glauber
Re: tunes from titanic -- Ryan's Polka
Well, sorry about all the spoiled breakfasts and undigested ashtrays. It is the most important meal of the day after all. I can certainly accept any criticisms fired at me, but I will no longer stand for the defamation of John Ryan's Polka which I spent a good ten minutes of my life learning at least a hundred years ago -- scratching my new Planxty record in the process. An innocent, simple, jolly, but oh-so-tired litttle tune. Fed up with it? Then do as we used to do in the six-week wonder called the Kreuzberger Ceili Band which featured famed Altan member Ciaran Curran on cittern. Know that long high A in the second part? Well, have everybody play any note they want except that note. Result? Instant traditional fun with the "Bum Note Polka", a guaranteed crowd-pleaser which allows you to both play the tune, amuse the punters and express your indifference simultaneously. By the way, here are other words and phrases I like as well as "rant" -- harangue, screed, bombast, blather, frenzied ravings.
# Posted on April 6th 2002 by LongNote
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Well, I'm beginning to almost enjoy this thread
, now that the crack is creeping back into it, polkas and all.
# Posted on April 6th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
Oh, boy, we've got to try the Bum-Note Polka at our session. Sounds like good fun. And that original Planxty set with Dennis Murphy's/42-pound check/John Ryan's is still the classic and definitive polka set, I think.
# Posted on April 9th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: tunes from titanic!!!
ROFLLLLLLLLLLLL @ bum note polka, can't wait to try it ha!
42-pound-check? I'll hafta look into acquiring that for the holy polka triad
# Posted on April 14th 2002 by emily_bmore