I was lurking in the 'mandolin suggestions' thread when it occured to me that if I asked where to get a well made fiddle for 500 bucks I'd likely be told to cruise the pawn shops! (and hope I get lucky).
Why do violins cost so much? Or, to consider it the other way around, why doesn't a good mandolin cost as much as a good violin? I can only imagine that the workmanship and skill is equally demanding for both instruments. Anyone have ideas on this?
the bottom price for a decent anglo concertina is around $1500. the better ones start in the $2500 range. i thought that paying $875 for my fiddle was a real bargain ...
Yes, but "better" is relative. I've been told you can't touch a decent violin these days for under $8,000 to $10,000. Anything less is just a "student" model. And after trying hundred of violins from some of the "best" shops, I found a lot of duds, even in the $10,000 to $15,000 range. You don't always get what you pay for....
Supply and demand plays a role in setting these prices. There are more paid violinists out there (thanks to big city orchestras) than paid mandolinists, and they're all looking for a better fiddle. There are also way too many violin collectors, some of whom never intend to play the instruments they purchase. It's a shame when good instruments are bought and mothballed as investments only. And that helps jack up the asking price for all fiddles.
Many if not most of the real good violin players can only get the instruments they "need" by becoming slaves of some company or other who has purchased a Stradivarius for an indecent price and loans it to the artist in exchange for slavery. They probably get tax breaks out of it too!
So, in reality, there is no more work or materials cost in making a violin vs. making a mandolin? The rest is just padding. Wow!
As a point on interest, there is a professer down in Austin who claims he's found the secret of making a perfect Stradivarius violin. Says it's all in the varnish and soaking the wood in sea brine, etc.
Anyway, he's selling the things for 5 to 10 grand. If anyone has that kind of cash to throw around, might be worth looking him up. He was featured in a Discover magazine a few months back (can't remember his name).
His name is Joseph Nagyvary, and his student fiddles (starting at $3000, the regular/good ones go for $6000 to $10,000 a pop if I remember correctly and his nicer ones up to $15,000) are basically the fiddles that didn't make his cut in the sound tests -- they all have to meet a narrow standard in the computerized tests to compare with the old Strads. The varnish includes such items as gem dust in it, if I remember that correctly as well. He also makes Guarnari style fiddles.
People can't make up their minds if the guy has it or if he's a crank. I'd love to hear them and see for myself what they sound like.
It should be pointed out that the least expensive mandolins are often flat-topped instruments
which are like guitars in construction. It is much easier to build this type of instrument than any kind of
arch topped instrument. The cheapest arched top mandolins have plywood tops and can be pressured
arched rather than carved. Nearly all violins regardless of price have carved tops. This distinction alone
accounts for a differences in the instruments at the student level. If we are talking about an individually
hand crafted instrument - then yes the difference is silly. The most expensive mandolin is probably a
1920s Llloyd Loar Gibson which bring under $100,000. Violins of course go much higher.
"Nagyvary Violins represents a break with violin making as it has existed for the past 200 years. During this post-Stradivari era, millions of violins were made of sap-heavy unpreserved wood and filled with transparent rubbery varnishes consisting of linseed oil and oleoresins which, together, defined the noisy monster that is the commonly known modern violin."
I also thought their claim that unlike other makers, they are not out to create an individual work of art, was pretty interesting. Their approach is more of a repeatable assembly line, with measurable non-subjective quality control at the end of the line (check the harmonics from the violin against the harmonics from an old Stradivarius).
I was thinking of going down to Austin in the next month or so and give one of those fiddles a whirl. BTW, If I mention the word 'fiddle' in his shop do you think I'll be thrown out on my ear?
i dont have a clue about mandolins but ive some experience in fiddles.
i know that it is very hard to make a fiddle and for it to project the sound that was originally intended. very few fiddles live up to how they were produced and it is the fiddles that sound great that are the highly priced ones.
by looking at all of the replies that i can see, i think your question was about answered Caoimghgin so i dont think i have anything else that is helpful to add.
and just a p.s on that. alot of bad fiddles are priced highly because most people cannot tell the difference between a good fiddle and a bad fiddle. these are the people that are swindled by the seller. so u should know your fiddles if u r buying one!!
A friend of mine, and a fiddle player, buys , sells and restores old fiddles in the UK.His name is Glen Titmus and he sometimes runs a stall at UK festivals.His site is www.glentitmus.co.uk
Not always, but more often than not fiddles are made from a better grades of wood. Violin varnishing is an art in itself & the tuning mechanisms aren't held on with wood screws on a fiddle.
There is great care in making both instruments, but violin makers are held to a much higher standard amongst their peers.
Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
I was lurking in the 'mandolin suggestions' thread when it occured to me that if I asked where to get a well made fiddle for 500 bucks I'd likely be told to cruise the pawn shops! (and hope I get lucky).
Why do violins cost so much? Or, to consider it the other way around, why doesn't a good mandolin cost as much as a good violin? I can only imagine that the workmanship and skill is equally demanding for both instruments. Anyone have ideas on this?
# Posted on March 17th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
heh. you should try shopping for a concertina.
the bottom price for a decent anglo concertina is around $1500. the better ones start in the $2500 range. i thought that paying $875 for my fiddle was a real bargain ...
sarah cardin
# Posted on March 17th 2002 by sarahc
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
Yes, but "better" is relative. I've been told you can't touch a decent violin these days for under $8,000 to $10,000. Anything less is just a "student" model. And after trying hundred of violins from some of the "best" shops, I found a lot of duds, even in the $10,000 to $15,000 range. You don't always get what you pay for....
Supply and demand plays a role in setting these prices. There are more paid violinists out there (thanks to big city orchestras) than paid mandolinists, and they're all looking for a better fiddle. There are also way too many violin collectors, some of whom never intend to play the instruments they purchase. It's a shame when good instruments are bought and mothballed as investments only. And that helps jack up the asking price for all fiddles.
# Posted on March 18th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
Many if not most of the real good violin players can only get the instruments they "need" by becoming slaves of some company or other who has purchased a Stradivarius for an indecent price and loans it to the artist in exchange for slavery. They probably get tax breaks out of it too!
# Posted on March 18th 2002 by glauber
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
So, in reality, there is no more work or materials cost in making a violin vs. making a mandolin? The rest is just padding. Wow!
As a point on interest, there is a professer down in Austin who claims he's found the secret of making a perfect Stradivarius violin. Says it's all in the varnish and soaking the wood in sea brine, etc.
Anyway, he's selling the things for 5 to 10 grand. If anyone has that kind of cash to throw around, might be worth looking him up. He was featured in a Discover magazine a few months back (can't remember his name).
# Posted on March 18th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
His name is Joseph Nagyvary, and his student fiddles (starting at $3000, the regular/good ones go for $6000 to $10,000 a pop if I remember correctly and his nicer ones up to $15,000) are basically the fiddles that didn't make his cut in the sound tests -- they all have to meet a narrow standard in the computerized tests to compare with the old Strads. The varnish includes such items as gem dust in it, if I remember that correctly as well. He also makes Guarnari style fiddles.
I'd love to hear them and see for myself what they sound like.
People can't make up their minds if the guy has it or if he's a crank.
http://www.nagyvary-violins.com/
Zina
# Posted on March 18th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
It should be pointed out that the least expensive mandolins are often flat-topped instruments
which are like guitars in construction. It is much easier to build this type of instrument than any kind of
arch topped instrument. The cheapest arched top mandolins have plywood tops and can be pressured
arched rather than carved. Nearly all violins regardless of price have carved tops. This distinction alone
accounts for a differences in the instruments at the student level. If we are talking about an individually
hand crafted instrument - then yes the difference is silly. The most expensive mandolin is probably a
1920s Llloyd Loar Gibson which bring under $100,000. Violins of course go much higher.
Joe
# Posted on March 19th 2002 by Carrmuse
Nagyvary
I thought this was really funny:
"Nagyvary Violins represents a break with violin making as it has existed for the past 200 years. During this post-Stradivari era, millions of violins were made of sap-heavy unpreserved wood and filled with transparent rubbery varnishes consisting of linseed oil and oleoresins which, together, defined the noisy monster that is the commonly known modern violin."
I also thought their claim that unlike other makers, they are not out to create an individual work of art, was pretty interesting. Their approach is more of a repeatable assembly line, with measurable non-subjective quality control at the end of the line (check the harmonics from the violin against the harmonics from an old Stradivarius).
Interesting stuff.
# Posted on March 19th 2002 by glauber
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
Thanks Zina!
I was thinking of going down to Austin in the next month or so and give one of those fiddles a whirl. BTW, If I mention the word 'fiddle' in his shop do you think I'll be thrown out on my ear?
I'll let you guys know.
# Posted on March 19th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
Oh, do tell us, Kevin! I'm dying to know!
I doubt he'd kick you out of his shop if you were seriously thinking of buying.
Zina
# Posted on March 19th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
i dont have a clue about mandolins but ive some experience in fiddles.
i know that it is very hard to make a fiddle and for it to project the sound that was originally intended. very few fiddles live up to how they were produced and it is the fiddles that sound great that are the highly priced ones.
by looking at all of the replies that i can see, i think your question was about answered Caoimghgin so i dont think i have anything else that is helpful to add.
mairead
# Posted on March 20th 2002 by Tune_fanatic
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
and just a p.s on that. alot of bad fiddles are priced highly because most people cannot tell the difference between a good fiddle and a bad fiddle. these are the people that are swindled by the seller. so u should know your fiddles if u r buying one!!
# Posted on March 20th 2002 by Tune_fanatic
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
A friend of mine, and a fiddle player, buys , sells and restores old fiddles in the UK.His name is Glen Titmus and he sometimes runs a stall at UK festivals.His site is www.glentitmus.co.uk
# Posted on April 25th 2002 by ricthewhistle
Re: Fiddles. Why are they so expensive?
Not always, but more often than not fiddles are made from a better grades of wood. Violin varnishing is an art in itself & the tuning mechanisms aren't held on with wood screws on a fiddle.
There is great care in making both instruments, but violin makers are held to a much higher standard amongst their peers.
# Posted on April 25th 2002 by B Rad