I love this site and I find it very useful as a point of reference and source of knowledge and advice. I have complained in the past of what I consider to be the prolific use of academic pedantry sometimes evident in the various threads, however, I can forgive this as there is much good advice to be had from certain of the correspondents out there as there are others who feel the need to analyse things to the nth degree.
I lurk mainly as I don’t feel that I have the experience and expertise to advise (and this thread will probably show me up for this), however, I try not to be too intimidated and I will post an opinion from time to time and I do enjoy the feedback (here’s another).
I was very saddened to read the recent thread about name dropping and the superciliousness of many of the contributors thereto. OK I have to admit I haven’t heard of 90% of the so called big names mentioned, however, they may be included on the many recordings I own, I’m just not that bothered with names. Why should I be there are probably dozens of brilliant talented players out there to every one recorded.
Why should we hold the recorded ones on pedestals? Do you not think, some of them, hopefully the majority, find it uncomfortable? Why should you be thought of any better because you have met or played with one of these guys? Haven’t you played with many great musicians during your time, as LOF pointed out?
Will - re your comment with regard to many well known names lurking here but not posting. Don’t you think it their duty to do so? After all we’re the ones keeping them in business so to speak. If they are out there, they have a duty to contribute IMHO.
Conrad the thread on name-dropping was meant as a bit of fun; as usual, certain members took it, and themselves, a bit too seriously. If people want to put others on pedestals I think that's up to them.
With regard to the well-known names posting; if they don't want to, why should they? Most don't make a phenomenal amount of money out of their music, so they are likely to augment their earnings through teaching. If you think their advice is worth hearing, why not take lessons?
Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit of a grump but it's Monday.
As you say, one person's pedantry is another person's interesting information. I'm never bothered by someone either wanting to post a bit of a joke nor a bit of information that may seem esoteric or fiddly to one person but that might enlightened someone who needs just that bit of information.
In fact, I generally see very little superciliousness around here, and relatively little of the sort of need-to-impress stuff people have been going on about lately. I generally just see people being excited about seeing or playing or talking with their heroes or teachers or what have you and wanting to share that excitement, or just people who want to pass on what was passed on to them. Sure, we might get some of it occasionally (people ARE just human), but largely it stays at a sane level, if sane is a word you can use where human beings are concerned. When it gets out of hand, generally others jump in to lower the sniffy level, which is just the way it should be.
But -- don't you think it's at least a bit ironic that you think it's the duty of the well-known who lurk here to pass on what they've learned after saying your first four paragraphs?
Anyway, after talking with a few of the ones I know who do lurk about the subject, I think their feelings fall into three general categories: 1) they don't have the time to get into it as they would if they started interacting with everyone, but do enjoy seeing what people think about and discuss anyway, 2) they don't want to be bothered with having to defend their viewpoints with those who wish to argue with them, or 3) they're shy, don't think of themselves as "famous", and don't therefore actually think anyone would be interested in what they have to say.
So, personally, I never mind people passing on what their pedestaled ones have said to them or whatever -- it may be the only way we hear from them here.
Quite right, Conrad! You connot claim rights without responsibilities. If the likes of Tommy Peoples wants to have the right to play fiddle music, he should realise it is his responsibility, nay duty, to post here and drop a few names of those HE has played in, and let us know what the daggiest tune in the world is!
Yours Apoplectically,
Outraged of Goring
Regarding lurkers: Sure there are probably a few famous musicians that lurk here, and there’s plenty more who are too busy playing or whatever to bother with something like this. But there's probably even more amateurs and neophytes who either lurk or are to busy with other things to get involved in something like this as well. This forum is going to attract a small cross section of people who are interested in ITM, and it’s unknown or not interesting to many others. So instead of speculating (unless you’re just having a laugh about the idea) why not just enjoy the community of musicians, that for whatever reason, have gathered here?
Most people seem to find this website as a result of researching a tune. Famous or unknown brilliant musicians are as likely as anyone else to be using the Internet this way and will stumble onto this site. But just like anyone else, regardless of their ability, they will either lurk, contribute, or ignore the whole thing.
I chose to get involved because it looked fun, and I hope it continues to be.
I have to admit, that the idea of entitlement (i.e. "we are keeping them in business" hence, it's their "duty" to give voice in discussions is somewhat surprising.
I join in because I enjoy doing so. I have learned an incredible amount here. Unfortunately, as I am a novice, I can't offer too much in the way of knowledge or tunes through the tunes section. That being the case, what I owe, what my duty is: Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge, talent/skills & humour!!! By way of showing my appreciation, I am offering to Jack: I'll carry your luggage on your trip to Ireland!!
I would also like to nominate Jim Troy to the Session Glee Club. I think he has more than earned it. Unless of course he doesn't have an MB.
MB = Magnificent Beard. (Or was that manly beard?)
Conrad, most of the 'name' players I've talked with already spend a lot of their time nurturing the music and other players--by teaching lessons and workshops (often going long beyond the set time); answering letters, emails, and phone calls; visiting with fans after concerts; producing tutorials; etc. Part of the tradition of this music is generosity in passing it on, and every Irish trad musician I've met has gone beyond the call to do just that.
Imagine being pestered for lessons and interviews everywhere you go. Imagine having to schedule time with your family if you want to see them at all. I for one would never presume to demand that 'name' players spend even more of their personal time logging in here to share their insights.
Besides, there's always some eejit just waiting to take them on. We've seen a few top players chased off this site by peevish little people who posted things they'd likely never say in person.
Perosnally, I think the name dropping thing is silly, and I explained my perspective in that thread. But if other people want to have a laugh with it, that's their choice.
I think of this site like a virtual pub, and if I don't care for the conversation in one corner, I'll mosey over to a different table. I may lurk at some threads and participate heavily in others. It's a free Net--we can surf where we please. The same goes here for anyone with a password, eh?
I know how to go to the bar all right. Seems I come in quite handy that way because they're always asking me to do that when I'm over. What-al-ya-have, Guinness?
Seems I get the stony stare a lot actually. It might be related to the way my uncle used to use my shoulder to steady his hunting rifle when I was a kid. Come to think of it, my uncle found me handy for fetching beers too.
Yeah, yeah, Dorans, you watch, someday you're going to get "discovered", record, and then you won't have time for all us little people anymore, you watch... *smirk*
Zeens, you said of superciliousness: "Sure, we might get some of it occasionally (people ARE just human), but largely it stays at a sane level, if sane is a word you can use where human beings are concerned. When it gets out of hand, generally others jump in to lower the sniffy level, which is just the way it should be."
That's what gets my goat - others generally *don't* jump in to lower the sniffy level on this site, primarily because they're considered as "mates", so nobody wants to risk "offending" anyone.
Conrad, let me tell you the real reason why big names don't like to post at thesession.org. It's because they realise that if they did, a lot of people here would fawn all over them and it would become absolutely unbearable, e.g. "oh Tommy, we are so lucky that you post here, I read your posts enthusiastically every day, they're so full of wisdom, I'm learning *so* much from you, I hope you continue to post into the future and I look forward to reading what you have to say, it would be such a shame were we to lose you, p.s. thankyou for your online lesson on bowed triplets, I found it *so* helpful".
Mark, you know, there's other ways of making a point rather than getting in someone's face. And superciliousness is often more a product of how something is perceived rather than how it was meant, and you might think on that. Also, some of us pick our battles.
As for your latter paragraph, Mark, that actually isn't why a few "big names" (or at least that's how some saw them here) have stopped posting. They stopped because of people who wanted to argue with them or in some way put them down to prove that they weren't such "big names".
Hey, I recognize that voice...now I know who's been sending all those anonymous emails....
Mark's right, no one wants to be fawned over. Besides, most of us come here because we benefit from it--we learn stuff and enjoy a bit of craic. People who do this for a living know 99.9 percent of what gets posted here. What I've been told is that some lurk here for the comic relief I provide ("He said WHAT?! LOL, who does Harmon think he is?!" and fresh toonage. I know of two players who left because of smears posted here as though the target wasn't in the room. They saw the insults and said, "I don't need this." I don't blame them for not visiting anymore.
Again, imagine walking into a pub and half the people gush all over you, while someone in the corner says you play like shite and have a personality to match. You'd buy your pints elsewhere, too.
I make my points by posting here on the discussion board Zina, not by "getting in someone's face". And whether it's a problem of "how something is perceived" and "how it is meant" is neither here nor there. I'm telling you that "this is how I perceive it", and I happen to know that other people (mostly lurkers) perceive it in the same way, only they haven't got a big mouth like me, and they avoid telling us because, maybe, just maybe, they're worried about being put down with dismissive remarks like yours above. So you might think on that (it's your expression, not mine!)
As for your latter paragraph Zina, I guess you're talking about Harry Bradley. Fair enough, you have a point. However, you imply strongly through your ill-thought-out wording that I had something to do with that incident (surely you can't *want* people to think that?), so before anyone misunderstands what you've said, I'll make it clear that a) I had absolutely nothing to do with Harry Bradley ceasing to post here, and b) I would never, ever, *ever* be interested in arguing with someone in order to prove that they aren't big names.
I only ever argue with people either when people decide to get in *my* face for no apparent reason, or when I smell the pungent whiff of bullschitt.
Hey, we're friends aren't we? Stop assuming that I'm trying to get in your face! I'm just trying to discuss something that I perceive to be a problem - I'm being civil about it aren't I?
Whatever, Mark, because I wasn't trying to be dismissive -- if I'd been trying to be dismissive, I'd have ignored your post. I was not implying that you had a thing to do with Harry Bradley leaving or in fact the other person I was thinking of.
Most people don't get in other people's faces without a reason. Whether you think it's a good reason or not doesn't really matter much to them.
Ha -- wouldn't work, because I'm so American, it'd slide right by. My family laughs at the way I hold my chopsticks and I never speak what passes for Chinese in their presence. But it was a nice try. *smirk*
A blatant bait like that wouldn't even slide right by an American Even I know that, and I'm just a juvenile lad who is not to be included in equations *smirk*
Okay, now that I've thoroughly irritated ya, I'm going to have to love ya and leave ya cuz I have a class of irritating students to teach this afternoon. "See ya!" (he said in a buoyant, jocular, laddish tone)...
I happen to know that Harry Bradley stopped posting here because he knew I was going to join. I intimidate him you see, so it's nothing you guys did ok? He says it's my beard, he's been trying to grow one for several years now. Harry emailed me and told me that he couldn't post on this board if I was going to -- I told him it was his choice. Now he just lurks -- so watch what you say.
He's my best friend in the whole wide world Jack... are you *sure* you know him? I reckon if you knew him half as well as I do, you'd know that in fact all his mates called him "Henry" back in the early 80s when anyone who was anyone was playing with him in a pub called the...the err, the "Sword In Hand", yes, that's it, well, I think that was the name anyway. I mean, if you don't know that then I'll just have to not count you into any of my laddish, juvenile equations.
LOL I hope Harry isn't lurking! (Sorry if you are Harry)
If anyone writes back and tells me pedantically the real pub he played in, and that nobody ever called him Henry (I wouldn't be surprised) I will wee myself.
*Splorf* Hi Conan and Bridie! Us lot had tunes with ya mate Francis the other day. Musical genius - Brides you missed out bigtime. I enjoyed picking his brains for some ideas about harmony, and he even got me playing my concertina again for a coupla tunes... as long as there was someone playing along with me who I could hide behind
darnoc - Type "Harry Bradley" into the recordings section and read the comments on his 2 solo albums. There's also a link to his website. Harry's a much-respected character around these parts.
All goin very well at the mo thanks and yer self? Just thought I’d take another little trip out of lurkdom and see if I couldn’t stir something up.
Zina sorry I didn’t get the irony in my last comment please explain. And speaking of stirring Zena you mean you have a few of the great and good in yer little black book? It was interesting to read their feelings on the subject and having read them I had some feelings of my own which I thought I would share with you.
Anyway, after talking with a few of the ones I know who do lurk about the subject, I think their feelings fall into three general categories:
1) they don't have the time to get into it as they would if they started interacting with everyone, but do enjoy seeing what people think about and discuss anyway,
I’m sure none of them are so busy that they could not contribute to the odd thread now and then. It would be good public relations if nothing else.
2) they don't want to be bothered with having to defend their viewpoints with those who wish to argue with them,
This suggests that it is only we mere mortals who need to defend our opinions and that those who have achieved fame to some degree don’t need to support their views or argue the toss with those who disagree with them
3) they're shy, don't think of themselves as "famous", and don't therefore actually think anyone would be interested in what they have to say.
Maybe they’re not famous in the normal sense of the word and if they themselves can’t be bothered to express their thoughts then we probably wouldn’t be interested in them anyway.
I note the comments about the famous being busy and having to charge for their help/lessons as its part of the job, but if they are reading this then they can’t be that busy, and I don’t believe the odd tip or comment here and there will damage their finances, in fact it may encourage cd sales or performance attendances. With regard to arguing or debate I would have thought this a positive rather than a negative and certainly not something our pedestaled ones should shy away from, regardless of how unfounded or pedantic (I do like that word, in fact I think we my be related) the argument or debate.
THAT Francis! I'm glad to hear you bumped into him - he's a nice guy and storming piano player. Tell him I hope Limerick's treating him well, and that he should check out Brulées restaurant as the owner is a fan of traditional music.
Okay I'll tell him, but he's probably reading this anyway and getting more and more embarrassed that we're talking about him How's Beebs? Tell her we miss her and need her back in Sydney right now. I end up not drinking enough alcohol when she's away.
Oh is THAT what the trouble is? Greenwiggle, where are you, Dow needs some feeding up with beer, for our sakes, please!
Conrad, why should they be any different/better/worse than the other thousands of lurkers on this site? I don't see you yammering on about anyone else not posting or posting with their opinions, and there's far more lurkers who haven't recorded than ones who have. Either they're More Special, or they're Not Special At All, and make up your fecking mind, fer catsake, ya hoser.
Besides, at this point, even if Tommy Peoples or Paddy Keenan DID post here, no one would dare say anything to them (positive OR negative) for fear of incurring The Wrath Of Dow or the Biting Wit of Conrad. *smirk* Too bad. Who knows what they could have taught us?
You two troublemakers are owed a sock on the arm next time I see you, honestly, you are. *grin* Watch out, it'll be either before or after the hug, and I'm not going to tell you which.
Beebs seems to be fine, if a little ill. She played three sessions on Sunday to my two, so she certainly outdid me on stamina.
We had a bottle of wine on Friday night and drank a glass in your honour. Looks like I'm making up for your lack of alcohol, and I see exactly where you're coming from.
I think this thread could insure that "they" (if they're lurking) never post here on account of it will mean "they" would be demoting themselves by doing so. If you put it in the perspective of Hollywood, that could be why celebrities usually only date and wed other celebrities.
er... Jack... you mean except Britney Spears, who drank too much booze then married that minger bloke (not a celebrity) then dumped him the next day.... not that I'm into that sort of thing ...fnarrrrrr...oops, I forgot this was a family site
Beebs "a little ill". Ahh bless. At least she knows that if she drinks more beer in the morning the pain'll go away. When's she coming back? I hope she's better by then cuz I'm afraid I might have to put on a party for her return.
Michael, the benefit gained by adding another instrument to a particular recording is probably more than the beneficial effects of one of your yappy Jinny-Anne comments added to this thread. Sometimes people get it wrong; not-so-proficient musicians will make recordings, leaving out accompaniment when it's plain that it's addition would have improved the overall sound and filled out some of the gaps. Sometimes the opposite is the case, in particular the insistence, in the early days of recording Irish music on 78s,that all solo players be accompanied. Let's face it, some of those Coleman records could have been much better without piano. So what's the difference between thinking that a recording would be better with or without certain instruments?
Ahhh, I just take you on so no one else will, Mark. *grin* Brides has got that chest thing that everyone else has been getting, Nell says, Mark. Poor thing, but it doesn't sound like it's slowing her down any, as usual. I hope she comes back home soon too, because I haven't e-mailed with her in a while.
LOL @ Zeens.
So Beebs is properly ill then? Her alcohol intake will have played havoc with her immune system, so more than likely it'll be her own fault, but you've gotta feel sorry for her anyway. Can someone give her a message from me to the effect of: "stop smoking tabs - you're supposed to have given up, and you'll only be making your chest worse". *Eye roll*.
Wasn't she rather sick when she left, Mark? I think I remember her saying something about that...anyway, e-mail me, will you? I've lost your e-mail address somehow...
I can't multi-task so dealing with multiple threads is hard for me. In fact I have to stop breathing while I type, hence my short posts and inane ramblings once the brain's running low on O2
A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I love this site and I find it very useful as a point of reference and source of knowledge and advice. I have complained in the past of what I consider to be the prolific use of academic pedantry sometimes evident in the various threads, however, I can forgive this as there is much good advice to be had from certain of the correspondents out there as there are others who feel the need to analyse things to the nth degree.
I lurk mainly as I don’t feel that I have the experience and expertise to advise (and this thread will probably show me up for this), however, I try not to be too intimidated and I will post an opinion from time to time and I do enjoy the feedback (here’s another).
I was very saddened to read the recent thread about name dropping and the superciliousness of many of the contributors thereto. OK I have to admit I haven’t heard of 90% of the so called big names mentioned, however, they may be included on the many recordings I own, I’m just not that bothered with names. Why should I be there are probably dozens of brilliant talented players out there to every one recorded.
Why should we hold the recorded ones on pedestals? Do you not think, some of them, hopefully the majority, find it uncomfortable? Why should you be thought of any better because you have met or played with one of these guys? Haven’t you played with many great musicians during your time, as LOF pointed out?
Will - re your comment with regard to many well known names lurking here but not posting. Don’t you think it their duty to do so? After all we’re the ones keeping them in business so to speak. If they are out there, they have a duty to contribute IMHO.
Thank you and good nite.
Conrad
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by darnoc
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Conrad the thread on name-dropping was meant as a bit of fun; as usual, certain members took it, and themselves, a bit too seriously. If people want to put others on pedestals I think that's up to them.
With regard to the well-known names posting; if they don't want to, why should they? Most don't make a phenomenal amount of money out of their music, so they are likely to augment their earnings through teaching. If you think their advice is worth hearing, why not take lessons?
Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit of a grump but it's Monday.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Hey, Conrad, how's it going?
As you say, one person's pedantry is another person's interesting information. I'm never bothered by someone either wanting to post a bit of a joke nor a bit of information that may seem esoteric or fiddly to one person but that might enlightened someone who needs just that bit of information.
In fact, I generally see very little superciliousness around here, and relatively little of the sort of need-to-impress stuff people have been going on about lately. I generally just see people being excited about seeing or playing or talking with their heroes or teachers or what have you and wanting to share that excitement, or just people who want to pass on what was passed on to them. Sure, we might get some of it occasionally (people ARE just human), but largely it stays at a sane level, if sane is a word you can use where human beings are concerned. When it gets out of hand, generally others jump in to lower the sniffy level, which is just the way it should be.
But -- don't you think it's at least a bit ironic that you think it's the duty of the well-known who lurk here to pass on what they've learned after saying your first four paragraphs?
Anyway, after talking with a few of the ones I know who do lurk about the subject, I think their feelings fall into three general categories: 1) they don't have the time to get into it as they would if they started interacting with everyone, but do enjoy seeing what people think about and discuss anyway, 2) they don't want to be bothered with having to defend their viewpoints with those who wish to argue with them, or 3) they're shy, don't think of themselves as "famous", and don't therefore actually think anyone would be interested in what they have to say.
So, personally, I never mind people passing on what their pedestaled ones have said to them or whatever -- it may be the only way we hear from them here.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
As I said to a friend of mine over a cup of tea the other day: "I do so dislike name dropping, don't you, your majesty?"
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Quite right, Conrad! You connot claim rights without responsibilities. If the likes of Tommy Peoples wants to have the right to play fiddle music, he should realise it is his responsibility, nay duty, to post here and drop a few names of those HE has played in, and let us know what the daggiest tune in the world is!
Yours Apoplectically,
Outraged of Goring
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Ottery
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
And he should also post the "correct" versions of the tunes from the first Bothy Band album.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by John J.
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Regarding lurkers: Sure there are probably a few famous musicians that lurk here, and there’s plenty more who are too busy playing or whatever to bother with something like this. But there's probably even more amateurs and neophytes who either lurk or are to busy with other things to get involved in something like this as well. This forum is going to attract a small cross section of people who are interested in ITM, and it’s unknown or not interesting to many others. So instead of speculating (unless you’re just having a laugh about the idea) why not just enjoy the community of musicians, that for whatever reason, have gathered here?
Most people seem to find this website as a result of researching a tune. Famous or unknown brilliant musicians are as likely as anyone else to be using the Internet this way and will stumble onto this site. But just like anyone else, regardless of their ability, they will either lurk, contribute, or ignore the whole thing.
I chose to get involved because it looked fun, and I hope it continues to be.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I have to admit, that the idea of entitlement (i.e. "we are keeping them in business" hence, it's their "duty" to give voice in discussions is somewhat surprising.
I join in because I enjoy doing so. I have learned an incredible amount here. Unfortunately, as I am a novice, I can't offer too much in the way of knowledge or tunes through the tunes section. That being the case, what I owe, what my duty is: Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge, talent/skills & humour!!! By way of showing my appreciation, I am offering to Jack: I'll carry your luggage on your trip to Ireland!!
I would also like to nominate Jim Troy to the Session Glee Club. I think he has more than earned it. Unless of course he doesn't have an MB.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Agnes Nutter
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
LOL -- Magnificent Beard. Not to worry, I don't have one either, but virtually, I do.
(It's actually me, but I'm at my husband's office at the moment logged in under his nickname.)
Zina
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Reverend
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
MB = Magnificent Beard. (Or was that manly beard?)
Conrad, most of the 'name' players I've talked with already spend a lot of their time nurturing the music and other players--by teaching lessons and workshops (often going long beyond the set time); answering letters, emails, and phone calls; visiting with fans after concerts; producing tutorials; etc. Part of the tradition of this music is generosity in passing it on, and every Irish trad musician I've met has gone beyond the call to do just that.
Imagine being pestered for lessons and interviews everywhere you go. Imagine having to schedule time with your family if you want to see them at all. I for one would never presume to demand that 'name' players spend even more of their personal time logging in here to share their insights.
Besides, there's always some eejit just waiting to take them on. We've seen a few top players chased off this site by peevish little people who posted things they'd likely never say in person.
Perosnally, I think the name dropping thing is silly, and I explained my perspective in that thread. But if other people want to have a laugh with it, that's their choice.
I think of this site like a virtual pub, and if I don't care for the conversation in one corner, I'll mosey over to a different table. I may lurk at some threads and participate heavily in others. It's a free Net--we can surf where we please. The same goes here for anyone with a password, eh?
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I thought "MB" was mature bum.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Oh... so THAT"S what the stony stare's all about then.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I know how to go to the bar all right. Seems I come in quite handy that way because they're always asking me to do that when I'm over. What-al-ya-have, Guinness?
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Seems I get the stony stare a lot actually. It might be related to the way my uncle used to use my shoulder to steady his hunting rifle when I was a kid. Come to think of it, my uncle found me handy for fetching beers too.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Hi danroc, sorry, darnoc, or is it Conrad?
Totally agree with you, as you can tell from my post on that thread.
Smiling Jim
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Yeah, yeah, Dorans, you watch, someday you're going to get "discovered", record, and then you won't have time for all us little people anymore, you watch... *smirk*
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Hey, I've cross posted with Jim Dorans! Does that count?
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
That's *nothing*, Will, *I* got to listen to his mp3s before everybody else!
Hehehe.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Oooooh, Zina, you're a shoe in then for chair of the Jim Dorans fan club, you lucky thang, you!
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
It's all worth it, just to be able to touch the hem of his garment, Will...
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Zeens, you said of superciliousness: "Sure, we might get some of it occasionally (people ARE just human), but largely it stays at a sane level, if sane is a word you can use where human beings are concerned. When it gets out of hand, generally others jump in to lower the sniffy level, which is just the way it should be."
That's what gets my goat - others generally *don't* jump in to lower the sniffy level on this site, primarily because they're considered as "mates", so nobody wants to risk "offending" anyone.
Conrad, let me tell you the real reason why big names don't like to post at thesession.org. It's because they realise that if they did, a lot of people here would fawn all over them and it would become absolutely unbearable, e.g. "oh Tommy, we are so lucky that you post here, I read your posts enthusiastically every day, they're so full of wisdom, I'm learning *so* much from you, I hope you continue to post into the future and I look forward to reading what you have to say, it would be such a shame were we to lose you, p.s. thankyou for your online lesson on bowed triplets, I found it *so* helpful".
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Mark, you know, there's other ways of making a point rather than getting in someone's face. And superciliousness is often more a product of how something is perceived rather than how it was meant, and you might think on that. Also, some of us pick our battles.
As for your latter paragraph, Mark, that actually isn't why a few "big names" (or at least that's how some saw them here) have stopped posting. They stopped because of people who wanted to argue with them or in some way put them down to prove that they weren't such "big names".
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Hey, I recognize that voice...now I know who's been sending all those anonymous emails....
and fresh toonage. I know of two players who left because of smears posted here as though the target wasn't in the room. They saw the insults and said, "I don't need this." I don't blame them for not visiting anymore.
Mark's right, no one wants to be fawned over. Besides, most of us come here because we benefit from it--we learn stuff and enjoy a bit of craic. People who do this for a living know 99.9 percent of what gets posted here. What I've been told is that some lurk here for the comic relief I provide ("He said WHAT?! LOL, who does Harmon think he is?!"
Again, imagine walking into a pub and half the people gush all over you, while someone in the corner says you play like shite and have a personality to match. You'd buy your pints elsewhere, too.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I make my points by posting here on the discussion board Zina, not by "getting in someone's face". And whether it's a problem of "how something is perceived" and "how it is meant" is neither here nor there. I'm telling you that "this is how I perceive it", and I happen to know that other people (mostly lurkers) perceive it in the same way, only they haven't got a big mouth like me, and they avoid telling us because, maybe, just maybe, they're worried about being put down with dismissive remarks like yours above. So you might think on that (it's your expression, not mine!)
As for your latter paragraph Zina, I guess you're talking about Harry Bradley. Fair enough, you have a point. However, you imply strongly through your ill-thought-out wording that I had something to do with that incident (surely you can't *want* people to think that?), so before anyone misunderstands what you've said, I'll make it clear that a) I had absolutely nothing to do with Harry Bradley ceasing to post here, and b) I would never, ever, *ever* be interested in arguing with someone in order to prove that they aren't big names.
I only ever argue with people either when people decide to get in *my* face for no apparent reason, or when I smell the pungent whiff of bullschitt.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Hey, we're friends aren't we? Stop assuming that I'm trying to get in your face! I'm just trying to discuss something that I perceive to be a problem - I'm being civil about it aren't I?
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Whatever, Mark, because I wasn't trying to be dismissive -- if I'd been trying to be dismissive, I'd have ignored your post. I was not implying that you had a thing to do with Harry Bradley leaving or in fact the other person I was thinking of.
Most people don't get in other people's faces without a reason. Whether you think it's a good reason or not doesn't really matter much to them.
So deal.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
And I'm perfectly willing to argue with my friends -- if you can't argue with your friends, who the hell CAN you argue with?
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
BTW Zeens, you and I know that if I really wanted to make you mad, all I would have to do would be to say one word: "Cantonese"! LOL - joke, honest!
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Ha -- wouldn't work, because I'm so American, it'd slide right by. My family laughs at the way I hold my chopsticks and I never speak what passes for Chinese in their presence. But it was a nice try. *smirk*
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Let's face it, YOUR Chinese is probably better than mine.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
A blatant bait like that wouldn't even slide right by an American
Even I know that, and I'm just a juvenile lad who is not to be included in equations *smirk*
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Jesus, what I wouldn't give right now for a emoticon that rolls it's eyes... :p
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Wo shuo de zhongguo bu hao!
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Okay, now that I've thoroughly irritated ya, I'm going to have to love ya and leave ya cuz I have a class of irritating students to teach this afternoon. "See ya!" (he said in a buoyant, jocular, laddish tone)...
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
You're just lucky I haven't the slightest idea what that means.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
What buoyant? You Yanks need to learn English! (He said, laddishly and deliberately misunderstanding)
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
:p to you, Mark. Go teach your class, and I hope they give you hell.
*snort*
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Oh they will I'm sure! *grin*
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
BTW, before I go, the pseudo mandarin I wrote above means "I don't speak China very well"
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I don't do Mandarin. I'm Cantonese.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I happen to know that Harry Bradley stopped posting here because he knew I was going to join. I intimidate him you see, so it's nothing you guys did ok? He says it's my beard, he's been trying to grow one for several years now. Harry emailed me and told me that he couldn't post on this board if I was going to -- I told him it was his choice. Now he just lurks -- so watch what you say.
hahahahaha
MB
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
LOL -- uh, yeah, Jack, of course...
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Zeens, you're Cantonese? I thought you guys were like, all the same... So do you speak Cantonese then?
I can almost hear Em going: "Dow shut up, shut up, shut up, you juvenile laddish lad you"
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
BTW Jack I just rang Harry and he tells me that what you're saying is, as usual, absolute rubbish
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
That's not "almost", Mark, you're probably hearing the actual echo.
I can say 1-10, Happy New Year, and tell you you're a bad boy. Oh, and hello, how are you today? Sort of.
Didn't you have a class to teach? I was enjoying the quiet.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
We're back to name dropping guys, but just so that I can be suitably impressed, who's Harry Bradley?
Conrad
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by darnoc
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
He's my best friend in the whole wide world
Jack... are you *sure* you know him? I reckon if you knew him half as well as I do, you'd know that in fact all his mates called him "Henry" back in the early 80s when anyone who was anyone was playing with him in a pub called the...the err, the "Sword In Hand", yes, that's it, well, I think that was the name anyway. I mean, if you don't know that then I'll just have to not count you into any of my laddish, juvenile equations.
LOL I hope Harry isn't lurking! (Sorry if you are Harry)
If anyone writes back and tells me pedantically the real pub he played in, and that nobody ever called him Henry (I wouldn't be surprised) I will wee myself.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Actually he played in Kelly's Cellars and Madden's and, would you believe it, nobody ever called him Henry! They called him a few other things though.
What's that big stain on your trousers Dow?
BTW Bridie said "Hello". We had a few tunes last Friday.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
*Splorf* Hi Conan and Bridie! Us lot had tunes with ya mate Francis the other day. Musical genius - Brides you missed out bigtime. I enjoyed picking his brains for some ideas about harmony, and he even got me playing my concertina again for a coupla tunes... as long as there was someone playing along with me who I could hide behind
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Who's that? Fra McIlduff? Is he in Oz? The bollix! Tell him I said "Hello" and he has to give you a rendition of Frankie's Piles.
Unless you mean Bridie's mate Francis, in which case I haven't a clue who you're on about.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Nah, http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/3552/comments#comment70871
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
darnoc - Type "Harry Bradley" into the recordings section and read the comments on his 2 solo albums. There's also a link to his website. Harry's a much-respected character around these parts.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Kenny
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Sorry, ignore the comment number.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Howaya Zina
All goin very well at the mo thanks and yer self? Just thought I’d take another little trip out of lurkdom and see if I couldn’t stir something up.
Zina sorry I didn’t get the irony in my last comment please explain. And speaking of stirring Zena you mean you have a few of the great and good in yer little black book? It was interesting to read their feelings on the subject and having read them I had some feelings of my own which I thought I would share with you.
Anyway, after talking with a few of the ones I know who do lurk about the subject, I think their feelings fall into three general categories:
1) they don't have the time to get into it as they would if they started interacting with everyone, but do enjoy seeing what people think about and discuss anyway,
I’m sure none of them are so busy that they could not contribute to the odd thread now and then. It would be good public relations if nothing else.
2) they don't want to be bothered with having to defend their viewpoints with those who wish to argue with them,
This suggests that it is only we mere mortals who need to defend our opinions and that those who have achieved fame to some degree don’t need to support their views or argue the toss with those who disagree with them
3) they're shy, don't think of themselves as "famous", and don't therefore actually think anyone would be interested in what they have to say.
Maybe they’re not famous in the normal sense of the word and if they themselves can’t be bothered to express their thoughts then we probably wouldn’t be interested in them anyway.
I note the comments about the famous being busy and having to charge for their help/lessons as its part of the job, but if they are reading this then they can’t be that busy, and I don’t believe the odd tip or comment here and there will damage their finances, in fact it may encourage cd sales or performance attendances. With regard to arguing or debate I would have thought this a positive rather than a negative and certainly not something our pedestaled ones should shy away from, regardless of how unfounded or pedantic (I do like that word, in fact I think we my be related) the argument or debate.
Conrad
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by darnoc
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Hey Dow
THAT Francis! I'm glad to hear you bumped into him - he's a nice guy and storming piano player. Tell him I hope Limerick's treating him well, and that he should check out Brulées restaurant as the owner is a fan of traditional music.
All the hairy chest
Conán
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Okay I'll tell him, but he's probably reading this anyway and getting more and more embarrassed that we're talking about him
How's Beebs? Tell her we miss her and need her back in Sydney right now. I end up not drinking enough alcohol when she's away.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Oh is THAT what the trouble is? Greenwiggle, where are you, Dow needs some feeding up with beer, for our sakes, please!
Conrad, why should they be any different/better/worse than the other thousands of lurkers on this site? I don't see you yammering on about anyone else not posting or posting with their opinions, and there's far more lurkers who haven't recorded than ones who have. Either they're More Special, or they're Not Special At All, and make up your fecking mind, fer catsake, ya hoser.
Besides, at this point, even if Tommy Peoples or Paddy Keenan DID post here, no one would dare say anything to them (positive OR negative) for fear of incurring The Wrath Of Dow or the Biting Wit of Conrad. *smirk* Too bad. Who knows what they could have taught us?
You two troublemakers are owed a sock on the arm next time I see you, honestly, you are. *grin* Watch out, it'll be either before or after the hug, and I'm not going to tell you which.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Beebs seems to be fine, if a little ill. She played three sessions on Sunday to my two, so she certainly outdid me on stamina.
We had a bottle of wine on Friday night and drank a glass in your honour. Looks like I'm making up for your lack of alcohol, and I see exactly where you're coming from.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I think this thread could insure that "they" (if they're lurking) never post here on account of it will mean "they" would be demoting themselves by doing so. If you put it in the perspective of Hollywood, that could be why celebrities usually only date and wed other celebrities.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Oooohh... cor..
I can just see the name up on the marquee..
The Session
The Wrath Of DOW....
Craic: The Final Frontier.
These are the Voyages of the Musicker DOW..
etc. :p
*!Pádraig
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Pádraig
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
er... Jack... you mean except Britney Spears, who drank too much booze then married that minger bloke (not a celebrity) then dumped him the next day.... not that I'm into that sort of thing ...fnarrrrrr...oops, I forgot this was a family site
Jim
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I didn't know that, Jim, but I'm impressed with your knowledge about Britney Spears.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Beebs "a little ill". Ahh bless. At least she knows that if she drinks more beer in the morning the pain'll go away. When's she coming back? I hope she's better by then cuz I'm afraid I might have to put on a party for her return.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
BTW sorry for irritating you yesterday Zeens, but it was fun
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Anyway, I've got to live up to my juvenile, laddish reputation eh.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Michael, the benefit gained by adding another instrument to a particular recording is probably more than the beneficial effects of one of your yappy Jinny-Anne comments added to this thread. Sometimes people get it wrong; not-so-proficient musicians will make recordings, leaving out accompaniment when it's plain that it's addition would have improved the overall sound and filled out some of the gaps. Sometimes the opposite is the case, in particular the insistence, in the early days of recording Irish music on 78s,that all solo players be accompanied. Let's face it, some of those Coleman records could have been much better without piano. So what's the difference between thinking that a recording would be better with or without certain instruments?
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Ahhh, I just take you on so no one else will, Mark. *grin* Brides has got that chest thing that everyone else has been getting, Nell says, Mark. Poor thing, but it doesn't sound like it's slowing her down any, as usual. I hope she comes back home soon too, because I haven't e-mailed with her in a while.
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Valid point, Conan, but I think you've posted it it on the wrong thread. Michael made his comments on "ITM and Guitars".
TTFN--oops sorry, that was someone else.
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by John J.
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
LOL, whoops, Conan has a senior moment
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
LOL @ Zeens.
So Beebs is properly ill then? Her alcohol intake will have played havoc with her immune system, so more than likely it'll be her own fault, but you've gotta feel sorry for her anyway. Can someone give her a message from me to the effect of: "stop smoking tabs - you're supposed to have given up, and you'll only be making your chest worse". *Eye roll*.
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
There seems to be a malfunction in the transporter Scotty!
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
I was under the impression that she had plans to go to the Big Country. Mustn't have come to fruition due to hangover apathy.
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Wasn't she rather sick when she left, Mark? I think I remember her saying something about that...anyway, e-mail me, will you? I've lost your e-mail address somehow...
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: A POINT OF VIEW RE THE GREAT AND GOOD
Dohhhhhhh
I can't multi-task so dealing with multiple threads is hard for me. In fact I have to stop breathing while I type, hence my short posts and inane ramblings once the brain's running low on O2
# Posted on July 29th 2004 by Conán McDonnell