I have to agree with Jeremy, the line between a haughty session & a ruined session is a little musical direction. When at an Traditional Irish Session the emphasis should be Traditional Irish Music. The outline needs to be drawn out in a real session, and I think it needs to be drawn out here as well. Remember there is no body language in this forum so sometimes the words are a little stronger.
Brad-perhaps you're right with respect to a session. However, I see no reason why one couldn't redirect another's request in a positive and encouraging manner.
I thought I was being fairly encouraging. At the same time, I had to make it clear why "My Heart Will Go On" is a thousand miles away from what The Session is all about.
There's no unwritten rules about what's allowed at The Session - it's quite clear from the opening page what kind of music you can find and add to this site.
I intended my response to have a humourous touch. Perhaps I should have added a smiley face or two.
I was sincere when I wished Francis good luck with his search.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only session "leader" who gets called on the carpet for doing his or her job...
I thought Jeremy's response was right on the money. I for one don't want to see abcs for Celine Dion songs on this site, and it strikes me as mildly insulting when people don't take the time to read what this site is about--an annoyance not far removed from someone sitting in on a real session and playing Devil Went Down to Georgia. Besides, Francis should BUY the sheet music for that song, since it's widely commercially available and copyrighted to protect against bottleg distribution.
Keep the faith, Jeremy!
Will
I am sorry, but my english is too poor for understanding your humourous touch...
A friend of my girl who plays harp was happy to listen the tunes i plays whith flute and she payed for me this air of titanic (i am sorry i did not see the film !). On the music sheet it was written : music by james horner, lysric by will jenning. No mention of celine dion !
Sure it is not a jig or a reel, it is not a danse.
Sorry.
I am sorry to see that a simple question is the cause of such discussions.
I was expecting that such a musical site was more courteaous.
Francis, I'm sorry if my humour escaped you. Like I said, I should have used some emoticons (smiley faces) when I made my little joke.
However, my point stands that "My heart will go on" has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with The Session.
Whether it's by Celine Dion, James Horner or Will Jenning, it's a composition with as much in common with Irish trad music as the latest Brittney Spears song.
Anyway, your quest seems to be over as you have now found the sheet music you were looking for so everybody's happy.
oh dear oh dear oh dear!! looks like me suggesting a few 'Irish' slow airs on the sight is rather more unstaged by this new disscussion. glad the music is found before this turns into a war!
I understand that my heart will go on has nothing to see with The Session.
My musical culture has to be better. But i will be happy if slow airs, irish slow airs are allowed to be in the tunes of The Session. For me, this celine dion's song was like an other one of a french artist who was inspired by the foggy dew. This original song is irish, i think. Sure it is not a danse.
Look, The Session is a site about the dance music of Ireland (jigs, reels, etc.). If you feel the site doesn't offer you enough because you would like the scope to be widened, that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to come here. There are plenty of other websites out there. If you can't find one that's right for you, start your own.
But now I would like to drop this whole subject. The Session is staying the way it is. Live with it.
Re: my heart will go on but with any luck this train of thought will end
Apparently Jeremy's initial response, contrary to his critics' opinions, wasn't strong enough....
This situation is akin to a newcomer to a realworld session insisting on playing Braodway show tunes. Sorry--not accepted here. And unless you've sat in the "leader's" chair and had to tell someone that their dobro or trombone isn't welcome, or that Gershwin is fine, just not in this circle, you don't have room to criticize. The Session is Jeremy's site, and through his generosity we can all use it, even shape it some by what we submit. But that does NOT make it ours to run away with. Let's keep this cyper place sacrosanct, a safe place for the dance music of Ireland, period.
Will
Just catching up after coming in off the road. I know, Jeremy, you didn't want to hear any more on this thread. Don't blame you, so excuse me for sharing a couple of thoughts - as someone who does the same thing on a different list(both subject & system).
Absolutely agree with your stance - and the absolute right to have the stance. It's why I come here in the first place. Absolutely one of the, if not the, best site for both session music and the purity of the boundaries is perfectly respectable.
Two thoughts. RE: the internet as a communication device, it frequently s*#*s. With no way of knowing who is on the other end, no non-verbal cues, and no way to immediately adjust it creates a roll of reaction that can last much longer than warranted and cause harm in the process. Since it's also Jeremy's absolute right not to worry about this, this is not an observation about the site but something I think we all need to keep in mind if we are going to use the medium to create on-line communities. Courtesy, humor, even clarity can not be assumed on the receiving end. If we don't care, that's one thing. If we do, then thinking about wordcraft is essential. Courtesy and humor have to be made obvious - or ignored.
Using Jeremy's initial response as an example. My first read was the same as the initial response about "rude". Upon re-reading, it based on Jeremy's responses, I realized that it wasn't as abrupt as it had come across. So, there's a lesson there as well. It goes south in the line about dirge's, which, of course, could be a screamer if a)you know that the song is a composed song by James Horner sung by Celine Dion, which may not be the case, b) that you know what dirge means, c) that you speak English enough to feel the wink in Jeremy's eye, d)that you're in the mood for humor when you read it, etc.
Second thought - yes, I'm only just getting to it. A small feeling of disappointment in a missed opportunity. NOt a cosmic tremor here. Just the feeling that here was an opportunity for someone to become intrigued by the difference between Irish dance music and Celine Deon(or Riverdance or Flatley(speaking of ego's). And to feel touched warmly by a cool bunch of musicians who are all trying to do the right thing(and a pretty cool bunch to hang out with - which ya'll seem to be). And maybe someone who would take the deeper path into "reel" traditional tunes.
Anyway, wishing no angst on anyone, just wanted to share thoughts. Of course, we get the same old stuff in live performances as well, and there, even with the most polite but firm refusal I have often been at risk of getting punched out instead of the requestor simply fading away.
Oh and I've been meaning to ask, there's this great tune called "The Celts" by Ain't Ya or some band like that...
I like the direction Marc is going with his thoughtful response. When a host creates a space for people with a common interest to come together, there are bound to be struggles over the scope of the discussion and over who tends to dominate the floor. The conversation is all the trickier online. One way to lessen those struggles might be to bring common courtesy online.
I hope Francis does keep logging on here to learn trad Irish tunes, and I hope he finds another site for whatever other music he's into. I also trust that in all our contributions we can respect Jeremy's reasons for providing this tremendous site, and use it to foster a real sense of community.
Will
I'm pitching in totally late here, but I do want to say that the other thing to remember is...this is Jeremy's site. He can do whatever the hell he wants to do with it, limit it however he likes, whatever. Moreover, I don't think being insulting to him about his 'ego' (which I don't see any of, personally) helps matters at all.
And if you'd like to see a "haughty" session, feel free to visit Ireland. They're much more picky about who they allow at their tables than any table I've sat around in the States. It's their music. It's their tradition. They've a right to exclude who they like, especially when there are people who apparently do not understand (nor wish to understand) the basic session etiquette. I highly recommend Barry Foy's book, "Field Guide to the Irish Music Session" to anyone caring to find out about proper behavior of a gracious guest. If the guest cares to be gracious, I suppose.
I suppose you're referring to my comment regarding "egos." That particular comment was not directed directly at Jeremy. With respect to your comment about it being Jeremy's site- yeah, I guess there are plently of other sites to visit if I don't like this one. As for session etiquette, one does not need a book to extend common courtesies. My initial comment was directed at the breakdown of such courtesies due to the egotistic nature of some players/individuals. In the meantime, I'll work on being a gracious player/listener.
my heart will go on
my heart will go on
I am looking for the music of this tune well known because of titanic...
Thank's
Francis
# Posted on July 29th 2001 by Francis.coutant
Re: my heart will go on
Francis, you're barking up completely the wrong tree.
I quote from the front page of The Session:
"This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes."
It does *not* say:
"This website is one way of passing on sentimental dirges sung by Celine Dion."
Might I suggest you try a different website - perhaps one that deals with the sort of music you're looking for.
Good luck with your search.
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by Jeremy
Re: my heart will go on
Jeremy- You're response to Frances strikes me as somewhat rude. It's almost like sitting at a 'haughty' session, without the table.
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by Imnotirish
Re: my heart will go on
I have to agree with Jeremy, the line between a haughty session & a ruined session is a little musical direction. When at an Traditional Irish Session the emphasis should be Traditional Irish Music. The outline needs to be drawn out in a real session, and I think it needs to be drawn out here as well. Remember there is no body language in this forum so sometimes the words are a little stronger.
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by B Rad
Re: my heart will go on
Brad-perhaps you're right with respect to a session. However, I see no reason why one couldn't redirect another's request in a positive and encouraging manner.
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by Imnotirish
Re: my heart will go on
I thought I was being fairly encouraging. At the same time, I had to make it clear why "My Heart Will Go On" is a thousand miles away from what The Session is all about.
There's no unwritten rules about what's allowed at The Session - it's quite clear from the opening page what kind of music you can find and add to this site.
I intended my response to have a humourous touch. Perhaps I should have added a smiley face or two.
I was sincere when I wished Francis good luck with his search.
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by Jeremy
Re: my heart will go on
I'm glad to see I'm not the only session "leader" who gets called on the carpet for doing his or her job...
I thought Jeremy's response was right on the money. I for one don't want to see abcs for Celine Dion songs on this site, and it strikes me as mildly insulting when people don't take the time to read what this site is about--an annoyance not far removed from someone sitting in on a real session and playing Devil Went Down to Georgia. Besides, Francis should BUY the sheet music for that song, since it's widely commercially available and copyrighted to protect against bottleg distribution.
Keep the faith, Jeremy!
Will
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by Will Harmon
Re: my heart will go on
Jeremy,
I am sorry, but my english is too poor for understanding your humourous touch...
A friend of my girl who plays harp was happy to listen the tunes i plays whith flute and she payed for me this air of titanic (i am sorry i did not see the film !). On the music sheet it was written : music by james horner, lysric by will jenning. No mention of celine dion !
Sure it is not a jig or a reel, it is not a danse.
Sorry.
I am sorry to see that a simple question is the cause of such discussions.
I was expecting that such a musical site was more courteaous.
By
FC
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by Francis.coutant
Re: my heart will go on
Francis, I'm sorry if my humour escaped you. Like I said, I should have used some emoticons (smiley faces) when I made my little joke.
However, my point stands that "My heart will go on" has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with The Session.
Whether it's by Celine Dion, James Horner or Will Jenning, it's a composition with as much in common with Irish trad music as the latest Brittney Spears song.
Anyway, your quest seems to be over as you have now found the sheet music you were looking for so everybody's happy.
# Posted on July 30th 2001 by Jeremy
Re: my heart will go on
oh dear oh dear oh dear!! looks like me suggesting a few 'Irish' slow airs on the sight is rather more unstaged by this new disscussion. glad the music is found before this turns into a war!
# Posted on July 31st 2001 by laura nesbit
*upstaged! sorry for my spelling!
# Posted on July 31st 2001 by laura nesbit
Re: my heart will go on
OK Jeremy,
I understand that my heart will go on has nothing to see with The Session.
My musical culture has to be better. But i will be happy if slow airs, irish slow airs are allowed to be in the tunes of The Session. For me, this celine dion's song was like an other one of a french artist who was inspired by the foggy dew. This original song is irish, i think. Sure it is not a danse.
Francis
# Posted on July 31st 2001 by Francis.coutant
Re: my heart will go on
Look, The Session is a site about the dance music of Ireland (jigs, reels, etc.). If you feel the site doesn't offer you enough because you would like the scope to be widened, that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to come here. There are plenty of other websites out there. If you can't find one that's right for you, start your own.
But now I would like to drop this whole subject. The Session is staying the way it is. Live with it.
# Posted on July 31st 2001 by Jeremy
Re: my heart will go on but with any luck this train of thought will end
Apparently Jeremy's initial response, contrary to his critics' opinions, wasn't strong enough....
This situation is akin to a newcomer to a realworld session insisting on playing Braodway show tunes. Sorry--not accepted here. And unless you've sat in the "leader's" chair and had to tell someone that their dobro or trombone isn't welcome, or that Gershwin is fine, just not in this circle, you don't have room to criticize. The Session is Jeremy's site, and through his generosity we can all use it, even shape it some by what we submit. But that does NOT make it ours to run away with. Let's keep this cyper place sacrosanct, a safe place for the dance music of Ireland, period.
Will
# Posted on August 1st 2001 by Will Harmon
Re: my heart will go on
Ah, egos... can't live with them, can't live without them. Keep it 'reel' lads....
# Posted on August 1st 2001 by Imnotirish
Re: my heart will go on
Just catching up after coming in off the road. I know, Jeremy, you didn't want to hear any more on this thread. Don't blame you, so excuse me for sharing a couple of thoughts - as someone who does the same thing on a different list(both subject & system).
Absolutely agree with your stance - and the absolute right to have the stance. It's why I come here in the first place. Absolutely one of the, if not the, best site for both session music and the purity of the boundaries is perfectly respectable.
Two thoughts. RE: the internet as a communication device, it frequently s*#*s. With no way of knowing who is on the other end, no non-verbal cues, and no way to immediately adjust it creates a roll of reaction that can last much longer than warranted and cause harm in the process. Since it's also Jeremy's absolute right not to worry about this, this is not an observation about the site but something I think we all need to keep in mind if we are going to use the medium to create on-line communities. Courtesy, humor, even clarity can not be assumed on the receiving end. If we don't care, that's one thing. If we do, then thinking about wordcraft is essential. Courtesy and humor have to be made obvious - or ignored.
Using Jeremy's initial response as an example. My first read was the same as the initial response about "rude". Upon re-reading, it based on Jeremy's responses, I realized that it wasn't as abrupt as it had come across. So, there's a lesson there as well. It goes south in the line about dirge's, which, of course, could be a screamer if a)you know that the song is a composed song by James Horner sung by Celine Dion, which may not be the case, b) that you know what dirge means, c) that you speak English enough to feel the wink in Jeremy's eye, d)that you're in the mood for humor when you read it, etc.
Second thought - yes, I'm only just getting to it. A small feeling of disappointment in a missed opportunity. NOt a cosmic tremor here. Just the feeling that here was an opportunity for someone to become intrigued by the difference between Irish dance music and Celine Deon(or Riverdance or Flatley(speaking of ego's). And to feel touched warmly by a cool bunch of musicians who are all trying to do the right thing(and a pretty cool bunch to hang out with - which ya'll seem to be). And maybe someone who would take the deeper path into "reel" traditional tunes.
Anyway, wishing no angst on anyone, just wanted to share thoughts. Of course, we get the same old stuff in live performances as well, and there, even with the most polite but firm refusal I have often been at risk of getting punched out instead of the requestor simply fading away.
Oh and I've been meaning to ask, there's this great tune called "The Celts" by Ain't Ya or some band like that...
MarcB
# Posted on August 5th 2001 by Marcb
Re: my heart will go on
I like the direction Marc is going with his thoughtful response. When a host creates a space for people with a common interest to come together, there are bound to be struggles over the scope of the discussion and over who tends to dominate the floor. The conversation is all the trickier online. One way to lessen those struggles might be to bring common courtesy online.
I hope Francis does keep logging on here to learn trad Irish tunes, and I hope he finds another site for whatever other music he's into. I also trust that in all our contributions we can respect Jeremy's reasons for providing this tremendous site, and use it to foster a real sense of community.
Will
# Posted on August 5th 2001 by Will Harmon
Re: my heart will go on
I'm pitching in totally late here, but I do want to say that the other thing to remember is...this is Jeremy's site. He can do whatever the hell he wants to do with it, limit it however he likes, whatever. Moreover, I don't think being insulting to him about his 'ego' (which I don't see any of, personally) helps matters at all.
And if you'd like to see a "haughty" session, feel free to visit Ireland. They're much more picky about who they allow at their tables than any table I've sat around in the States. It's their music. It's their tradition. They've a right to exclude who they like, especially when there are people who apparently do not understand (nor wish to understand) the basic session etiquette. I highly recommend Barry Foy's book, "Field Guide to the Irish Music Session" to anyone caring to find out about proper behavior of a gracious guest. If the guest cares to be gracious, I suppose.
Zina
# Posted on August 22nd 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: my heart will go on
I suppose you're referring to my comment regarding "egos." That particular comment was not directed directly at Jeremy. With respect to your comment about it being Jeremy's site- yeah, I guess there are plently of other sites to visit if I don't like this one. As for session etiquette, one does not need a book to extend common courtesies. My initial comment was directed at the breakdown of such courtesies due to the egotistic nature of some players/individuals. In the meantime, I'll work on being a gracious player/listener.
# Posted on August 23rd 2001 by Imnotirish