First, can someone provide a strict definition of the word "punter" as it pertains to The Diddly? My unerstanding is that this term describes those who come to the sesh, instruments in tow, who feign interest and/or actual skill for the specific purpose of getting free beer. Set me straight, please...
Second, I think we need other epithets (if none exist already) for the following species of session-goer:
1) The player who sits at the edge of the circle, says nothing to anyone at any time, and lies in wait for the completion of a set, thereafter launching into one of his own. Usually it is only one tune, and an obscure one he's sure nobody will know. This person usually gets up and leaves the session about halfway through, ne'er uttering a word.
2) The player who plays maybe one of every ten tunes, yet knows the name of every tune played that or any other evening, and when and by whom they were first recorded, blah blah blah...
3) The player who can not stand to let a second of silence go by before noodling, effectively covering the craic with a wet blanket. This player is closely related to the one described in 1), above.
4) The player who can't believe this session isn't run like the one in [Irish County] that he was at in [year] after the [Festival or workshop name] which was led by [Impressive name].
5) The player who, despite a decent knowledge of the Canon of Tunes, will only play sets of tunes exactly as recorded on either the Shanachie or Green Linnet labels within the last seven years, complete with every variation, stop-time, or interlude on said recording.
I can only respond to the second part of the question, and I think we should riff on the word punter.
So:
1) is a shunter, because they shun mutual playing in favour of solos
2) is a runter, because he (or she) is the runt of the musical pack, not proficient as his siblings, but attempting tp make up for lack of strength with knowledge
3) is a grunter, because they effectively grunt musically over occasional blessed moments of silence
4) is a c**nter, for obvious reasons
5) is a funster, which is sarcastic, because there is nothing fun in being so strict and by-the-book
FYI Rob & Andee, this is for informational purposes only, and not an indictment. Any resemblance to actual Philly session cats is purely coincidental...
I feel like I'm ordering the sushi lunchbox special at my favorite place on 15th and Sansom:
Pick three, no substitutions
--I am, ehem, I mean, I'll have the First, 2, and 5, but leave out the crab meat and urchin in 1 and 2, because it doesn't really fit, and makes me a little crazy in the head.
--No substitutions!
--Mea culpa, besides, I have to get back to work.
--You want salad or miso?
--I'll have a plate of crow, actually.
Can you tell I'm looking forward to lunch time? Maybe I'll get Hindustani instead; it's a shorter walk.
I've heard "punter" used both ways - "know-nothing-punter" for less than apt musicians.
The only brand of 'know nothing punter' that truely bugs me is the punter with a small gymbag containing: 14 whistles, 3 sets of bones, 2 sets of spoons, 16 tippers & a bodhran. If this sounds like you I'm sorry, but you need to cut it out right now.
Quite the contrary, michaelo, I must say that I love virtually every session at which I siddown... I do, however, find myself fascinated by those types (described above) who make the effort to come out to have a few tunes and pints-- mostly pints-- and proceed to be absolutely miserable, or completely miss out on the social aspect of the thing. Notice that I did not criticize skill level; the learning & sharing is part of the process. Which is why I so enjoy seeing folks like Andee and Rob come out; they understand and share in the spirit in which the session is based. Both of those two are unabashedly positive and eager to learn. It's the misanthropes and ersatz soloists I don't understand.
whew,, theres a lot of, uh, information here to Catalogue and File.. haha anyone remember the 7 and a 1/2th floor of Being John Malkovich? The stooped-over employees trying to sort it all out Sorry, I am way-off topic Just trying to sort out all the ideas here bends my head down.
like.. man, WHO is so astute they can catch the double asdterix in the "c**nter" word? Whew! sharp man.. it was johnj i think..
ok , so we are looking for what darinkelly calls "epiteths' but what I would call New Words For the Oxford Dictionary.. umm I have lately learned daggy, punter, and gobshite (did I spell that right?)..
ok so just now I re-read the original post.. mmm.. sounds a we bit like a gripe?
i like the VTG virtual tune god(dess)
Ok Ok GRIPE TIME: How about the young, cute, slim, woman weho has had a fisddle since she was seven, and plays loose-wristed and straight-backed, perfectly.. but (no offens I'm just jealous) has no huge idea about hte form of the music? Is she a Perfectio-Dressio-Tressio? Is that word too long? Am i talking too much?
Hey Darin, how about the person who knows where all the sessions are, what time and what night and who runs them all and the level of each one, and who usually attends each one, but doesn't hardly ever attend herself? Ha Ha! Of course--that's me!
Not quite sure what the nomenclature would be for it though...
That's me too, Andee. Unfortunately, I don't get to them all either. Some I avoid because they're "too slow" , others I feel are "too fast", some are "too Irish" would you believe??(really, I don't know enough of the tunes ). Fortunately, there's plenty of "In betweenie" ones I can go to and often the best sessions are spontaneous.
Hey Mark, armchair sessioner is perfect! Makes me think of armchair archaeologist, sitting there in his khaki pants and hat with maps and books and what-not who can talk all about the history of Egypt and knows all about the different relics and mummies and tombs and stuff, but never ventures out of his own library!
John, I'm glad I'm not the only one, but my reasons are a little different than yours. I don't think any of the sessions around here are "too slow" at any rate. But my reasons are that I just never feel "ready" or "good enough". Even though I totally expect to listen more than play anyway, and I do learn a lot that way. I guess I just need a self-esteem boost!
I've got it! A new session game that will add to the craic:
Whenever any of us go to a session in Philadelphia we should emulate one of Darin's categories above, and everyone has to guess which one we are. Any suggestions for prizes? WAIT! Here's a variant: Each session will have a theme, to be determined by the anchor players each week, where everyone there will behave as one of the people described above. The best performer gets to come home with me. I'm a great cook.
Truth be told, Philadelphia sessions are great, particularly because of the generousity and amazing endurance of patience exhibited by the "anchor players." Make no mistake about that. Then, again, I'm just happy to be part of the serenity of sitting peacefully and sawing my fiddle, away from my Punk Rock days when race-riots broke out before I could even set up my drums; a guy once ran onto the stage and jumped over my drum kit on top of me.
Rock on, you crazy ITMs...
P.S. Darin, read the discussion titled, "Philly music shops." The lurker I refer to is you. Any comments?
I thought punter was someone who shows up WITHOUT an instrument, but upon seeing that music is on the schedule for the evening, insists on borrwoing an instrument to "have a go at it". What is that called then?
The original post DID say "nomenclature," afterall...
--In collaboration with dave73 above:
1) Puntus Shunter gob-selfishus
2) P. Runter knowledgus-constipatus
3) P. Grunter craicus-interruptus
4) P. C**nter grass-greenerus
5) P. Funster canonus-shootus
Sessioneer nomenclature
Sessioneer nomenclature
OK, this is a two-parter...
First, can someone provide a strict definition of the word "punter" as it pertains to The Diddly? My unerstanding is that this term describes those who come to the sesh, instruments in tow, who feign interest and/or actual skill for the specific purpose of getting free beer. Set me straight, please...
Second, I think we need other epithets (if none exist already) for the following species of session-goer:
1) The player who sits at the edge of the circle, says nothing to anyone at any time, and lies in wait for the completion of a set, thereafter launching into one of his own. Usually it is only one tune, and an obscure one he's sure nobody will know. This person usually gets up and leaves the session about halfway through, ne'er uttering a word.
2) The player who plays maybe one of every ten tunes, yet knows the name of every tune played that or any other evening, and when and by whom they were first recorded, blah blah blah...
3) The player who can not stand to let a second of silence go by before noodling, effectively covering the craic with a wet blanket. This player is closely related to the one described in 1), above.
4) The player who can't believe this session isn't run like the one in [Irish County] that he was at in [year] after the [Festival or workshop name] which was led by [Impressive name].
5) The player who, despite a decent knowledge of the Canon of Tunes, will only play sets of tunes exactly as recorded on either the Shanachie or Green Linnet labels within the last seven years, complete with every variation, stop-time, or interlude on said recording.
OK, release the hounds...
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by darinkelly
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Punter to me just means the customers in the pub, i.e. non-musos who may or may not be listening to the music.
1) How about "tune vultures", they wait around till the end and then go in and pick at the leftovers!
2) How about "virtual tune god/goddess" - spends more time reading CD inlays and tune index than actually practising the tunes.
I need more think time for the others...
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
I can only respond to the second part of the question, and I think we should riff on the word punter.
So:
1) is a shunter, because they shun mutual playing in favour of solos
2) is a runter, because he (or she) is the runt of the musical pack, not proficient as his siblings, but attempting tp make up for lack of strength with knowledge
3) is a grunter, because they effectively grunt musically over occasional blessed moments of silence
4) is a c**nter, for obvious reasons
5) is a funster, which is sarcastic, because there is nothing fun in being so strict and by-the-book
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by dave73
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Ha Ha Darin, this is a good one!
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by Andee
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Dave, is there not just one "u" in Number 4?
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by John J.
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
It must be "counter", then, but that doesn't make much sense
Trevor
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Don't forget "Thumper"
joe
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Ouch!
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by grymater
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
FYI Rob & Andee, this is for informational purposes only, and not an indictment. Any resemblance to actual Philly session cats is purely coincidental...
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by darinkelly
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
I feel like I'm ordering the sushi lunchbox special at my favorite place on 15th and Sansom:
Pick three, no substitutions
--I am, ehem, I mean, I'll have the First, 2, and 5, but leave out the crab meat and urchin in 1 and 2, because it doesn't really fit, and makes me a little crazy in the head.
--No substitutions!
--Mea culpa, besides, I have to get back to work.
--You want salad or miso?
--I'll have a plate of crow, actually.
Can you tell I'm looking forward to lunch time? Maybe I'll get Hindustani instead; it's a shorter walk.
# Posted on June 27th 2004 by grymater
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
I've heard "punter" used both ways - "know-nothing-punter" for less than apt musicians.
The only brand of 'know nothing punter' that truely bugs me is the punter with a small gymbag containing: 14 whistles, 3 sets of bones, 2 sets of spoons, 16 tippers & a bodhran. If this sounds like you I'm sorry, but you need to cut it out right now.
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by Mad Baloney
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
LOL
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Of course when someone declares, "That's not funny" everyone seems to laugh louder.
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by Mad Baloney
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
darinkelly - what awfull sessions you must attend!
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by michaelo
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Quite the contrary, michaelo, I must say that I love virtually every session at which I siddown... I do, however, find myself fascinated by those types (described above) who make the effort to come out to have a few tunes and pints-- mostly pints-- and proceed to be absolutely miserable, or completely miss out on the social aspect of the thing. Notice that I did not criticize skill level; the learning & sharing is part of the process. Which is why I so enjoy seeing folks like Andee and Rob come out; they understand and share in the spirit in which the session is based. Both of those two are unabashedly positive and eager to learn. It's the misanthropes and ersatz soloists I don't understand.
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by darinkelly
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
OK, maybe number 2 was a bit harsh. I take that one back.
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by darinkelly
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
"Punter" can mean customer, gambler, amateur – take your pick. There’s a pretty useful discussion at http://frymaster.dyndns.org/article.php?story=20040217185849879,
As far as the five questions go, I’d hazard a guess:
1) Gobshite
2) Trainspotter
3) Gobshite
4) Gobshite
5) Gobshite
All IMHO of course
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by Just a person
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
hahahah hahaha
whew,, theres a lot of, uh, information here to Catalogue and File.. haha anyone remember the 7 and a 1/2th floor of Being John Malkovich? The stooped-over employees trying to sort it all out Sorry, I am way-off topic Just trying to sort out all the ideas here bends my head down.
like.. man, WHO is so astute they can catch the double asdterix in the "c**nter" word? Whew! sharp man.. it was johnj i think..
ok , so we are looking for what darinkelly calls "epiteths' but what I would call New Words For the Oxford Dictionary.. umm I have lately learned daggy, punter, and gobshite (did I spell that right?)..
ok so just now I re-read the original post.. mmm.. sounds a we bit like a gripe?
i like the VTG virtual tune god(dess)
Ok Ok GRIPE TIME: How about the young, cute, slim, woman weho has had a fisddle since she was seven, and plays loose-wristed and straight-backed, perfectly.. but (no offens I'm just jealous) has no huge idea about hte form of the music? Is she a Perfectio-Dressio-Tressio? Is that word too long? Am i talking too much?
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Hey Darin, how about the person who knows where all the sessions are, what time and what night and who runs them all and the level of each one, and who usually attends each one, but doesn't hardly ever attend herself? Ha Ha! Of course--that's me!
Not quite sure what the nomenclature would be for it though...
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by Andee
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
"Armchair sessioner"?
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
That's me too, Andee. Unfortunately, I don't get to them all either. Some I avoid because they're "too slow" , others I feel are "too fast", some are "too Irish" would you believe??(really, I don't know enough of the tunes
). Fortunately, there's plenty of "In betweenie" ones I can go to and often the best sessions are spontaneous.
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by John J.
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Hey Mark, armchair sessioner is perfect! Makes me think of armchair archaeologist, sitting there in his khaki pants and hat with maps and books and what-not who can talk all about the history of Egypt and knows all about the different relics and mummies and tombs and stuff, but never ventures out of his own library!
John, I'm glad I'm not the only one, but my reasons are a little different than yours. I don't think any of the sessions around here are "too slow" at any rate. But my reasons are that I just never feel "ready" or "good enough". Even though I totally expect to listen more than play anyway, and I do learn a lot that way. I guess I just need a self-esteem boost!
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by Andee
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
The "punter" can sometimes be paying for the evening, in which case you have to humour the cretin.
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
I've got it! A new session game that will add to the craic:
Whenever any of us go to a session in Philadelphia we should emulate one of Darin's categories above, and everyone has to guess which one we are. Any suggestions for prizes? WAIT! Here's a variant: Each session will have a theme, to be determined by the anchor players each week, where everyone there will behave as one of the people described above. The best performer gets to come home with me. I'm a great cook.
Truth be told, Philadelphia sessions are great, particularly because of the generousity and amazing endurance of patience exhibited by the "anchor players." Make no mistake about that. Then, again, I'm just happy to be part of the serenity of sitting peacefully and sawing my fiddle, away from my Punk Rock days when race-riots broke out before I could even set up my drums; a guy once ran onto the stage and jumped over my drum kit on top of me.
Rock on, you crazy ITMs...
P.S. Darin, read the discussion titled, "Philly music shops." The lurker I refer to is you. Any comments?
# Posted on June 28th 2004 by grymater
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
I thought punter was someone who shows up WITHOUT an instrument, but upon seeing that music is on the schedule for the evening, insists on borrwoing an instrument to "have a go at it". What is that called then?
# Posted on June 29th 2004 by Chaddock
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
See above - dave73 - #4.
# Posted on June 29th 2004 by Kenny
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
Yes, an "absolute #4".
# Posted on June 29th 2004 by John J.
Re: Sessioneer nomenclature
The original post DID say "nomenclature," afterall...
--In collaboration with dave73 above:
1) Puntus Shunter gob-selfishus
2) P. Runter knowledgus-constipatus
3) P. Grunter craicus-interruptus
4) P. C**nter grass-greenerus
5) P. Funster canonus-shootus
Eat your heart out Linnaeus!
P.S. Yes, believe it or don't, I do have a job.
# Posted on June 30th 2004 by grymater