In an attempt to learn tunes faster and easier, I am searching out compact, hand-held type products that have the ability to playback recordings at half speed at an octave lower.
I realize that there is software that will do this, even while keeping the same pitch. And Marantz makes a somewhat compact unit with this ability. However, I am looking for something a little more convienent and compact, like the size of a walkman.
Sony makes a compact tape recorder that has digital pitch control, Model TCM-900DV, that I think may do the trick. However, I cannot seem to make contact with anyone at Sony to verify this. Does any out there know about this Sony model? Does anyone know of any other product that can play at half speed and is compact, such as a mini-disk?
Thanks. I realize I'll probably end up learning tunes at regular speed, which is what I really should be doing, but thought I'd throw this out there before I give up.
I have a Sony walkman model WM-GX322 tape recorder/player with variable speed playback. It doesn't go down to half speed though--more like one third slower, dropping the pitch a fifth (I realize the math there probably doesn't add up, but the drop in pitch is exactly down a fifth, so it works well for fiddle--I just move down a string). I mention all this just so you'll be careful to verify the half-speed feature before you buy. On the positive side, my Sony has run perfectly for 3 years of steady use and abuse.
A friend with a Marantz is very happy wiith it--reliable, easy to use, and well worth the expense, he says.
Also be aware that some people really have a grudge against slowing recordings down to learn tunes. I happen to think it's a great tool, one that I used a lot in the early years because I didn't often have access to a teacher to play them slowly for me. It also was a pretty efficient way to study various players to understand how they approached a tune--phrasing, ornamentation, timing, etc. At the risk of sounding like my 8th grade science teacher with frogs on the tables and scalpels in hand, you can really pick a tune apart and get inside it at slow speeds, and it's inspiring as a beginner to hear how spot on clean some of these players are with rolls and triplets, etc.
I don't slow tunes down so much anymore, but occasionally it helps to pick out a few choice notes or ornaments, or to better hear what's going on when a lot of instruments are hammering away all at once. Sometimes I do it just to admire a player's timing or touch--Eileen Ivers has the most amazing *absolutely perfect* timing and rhythm! Slow down one of her fast reels sometime and just listen to how she nails the beats.
Some Irish Trad music email lists are beset with people who jump at the opportunity to tell you how "untraditional" and even "wrong" it is to learn this way. Yes, it's good to learn how to pick up tunes at normal playing speed, but you'll no doubt naturally start to do that as you get more comfortable with the music. In the meantime, I say take advantage of any tool that works for you.
I thought the traditional way of learning a tune was, well, learning it from being past along some way.
I mean, what's the difference of using a machine to slow the tune down and a mate who's playing the tune slow so you can pick it up?
When the group I'm in rehearses together and someone does not know the tune, we keep it slow untill we are all up to speed. I've seen it done in some sessions as well, that is sessions where there are tune swaps.
I've heard of machines like you guys are talking about, but never seen one. Sounds pretty neat!
I understand that you weren't interested in software, but as a help for other who are interested in slowing down recordings I'd just like to remind of WinAmp plug-ins like 'Slow me down' or 'Pacemaker' that will let you slow down an MP3-file (and in some cases also wav-files or CD-audio tracks) without changing the pitch. Very helpful and cheap (free).
And as a comment about the pros and cons of this mechanical way of learning tunes:
This will let you know how a musician 'really' plays a tune in full tempo. Not how he/she thinks he/she does. As sometimes is the case when you ask a musician to play a tune slower to let you know how it goes.
lars
The BOSS BR 8 (think this is the right name) has a built in phase sampler. It will slow a recording down and keep the pitch. This is a mini 8 track digital recording studio aimed at Guitarists (lots of effects). Uses zip disks to record things. It has a 4 track little brother recording things on a different media, which is cheaper.
Probably overkill for your needs and not palm sized (not meant for carting around at sessions). This would be useful for deciphering CD recordings up to speed, and recording your own music with friends amoungst other things.
The previous comment about recording someone to playing a tune at a moderate pace is a good one, then record them playing it at a reasonable tempo to get the feel. If you get a good recording of the tune you are home, no need for the technology.
Soundscape - Roland Homerecording-Workstation - DJ-CD-Player...
My first Half-Speed CD I got burned from a friend, who works as a sound engineer and has access to Soundscape - a professional track editor, which you can get in the very expensive hardware version or in a less expensive (but no cheap thing anyway) software version. The hardware version gives excellent slowed down tune quality so you hear every detail - in the original pitch/tuning!!! . However - to buy one means start semiprofessional homerecording (or beeing rich enough to buy some toy far beyond PS2). But to find somehow-sometimes acces to Soundscape means to get best quality slowed down tunes in original tuning....
however - I donīt have Soundscape acces whenever I need it. So I searched for different solutions: A couple of weeks I tried a second hand Roland 8-track digital home recording workstation (wich I didnīt buy because the operation of this box was to much techi for me). one of the many features of the station allowed to slow down tunes by max. 25% without changing the pitch/tuning ... but the sound quality gets poor.
professional cd players which you find in dance clubs or in DJ-Racks ( rent them at a very low fare during weekdays for just one afternoon) have a good and easy to adjust pitch control. But more than 15 - 20 % slower brings very bad and horribly muffled sound - tuning down the fiddle is best to practice with these slowed and pitched down tapes ( best results I had by pitching down the cd 10 - 12 % which means two tones (a to f for example).
Pitching/slowing down tunes down a whole octave is not really of help in my opinion - the sound gets too poor and unprecise for good practising.
I'm a total believer in the slowdown process for now, hoping that someday I'll be able to learn tunes just by hearing them at any speed. I'd have to know more about the backgrounds of the grudge-holders (7 generations of fiddlers on both sides of the family?) to appreciate their point of view. For me, it's just an expedient - I don't live anywhere near ITMs.
Transcribe has three features that have made me a dedicated user in the process of learning tunes by slowing down recordings (from CDs or sessions):
1. Continuously variable tempo, pitch and tuning.
2. Automatic repetition of any length selection. (It displays the soundfile as a waveform, just click and drag to set a loop) Markers can be set to remember sections, A & B parts, etc.
3. Spectrographic pitch analysis to show what scale notes are played. Sometimes you just can't "hear" fast enough to pull the notes out of a sequence. This feature lets you analyze one note at a time and displays the pitch information as a graph a bove a piano keyboard!
It runs beautifully on Macs and now has a Microsoft-compatible version, too - although I haven't had a chance to try the Windows version yet. It obviates the need for any expensive dedicated solution. (Since you all are reading this I assume you have computers
For those who are opposed to using computers in this process, you can simply record the slowed-down sound output from the computer to a cassette, MiniDisc or burn it on a CD. Then it will be more portable, although less handy for learning phrases by repetition.
hi, forget about all i said before .... Bob, thank you for the hint, I tried transcribe and Iīm an immediate fan of this tool. it is true, that this is no handheld tool, but I think minidisk will help ..... bye, volker
Thanks for all the input. I went ahead and ordered the Sony hand-held recorder that has the digital pitch control. I have a feeling, though no one can confirm this, it will slow the speed down without changing the pitch, and I will post the skinny when I get the thing in my hands.
Half Speed Playback
Half Speed Playback
In an attempt to learn tunes faster and easier, I am searching out compact, hand-held type products that have the ability to playback recordings at half speed at an octave lower.
I realize that there is software that will do this, even while keeping the same pitch. And Marantz makes a somewhat compact unit with this ability. However, I am looking for something a little more convienent and compact, like the size of a walkman.
Sony makes a compact tape recorder that has digital pitch control, Model TCM-900DV, that I think may do the trick. However, I cannot seem to make contact with anyone at Sony to verify this. Does any out there know about this Sony model? Does anyone know of any other product that can play at half speed and is compact, such as a mini-disk?
Thanks. I realize I'll probably end up learning tunes at regular speed, which is what I really should be doing, but thought I'd throw this out there before I give up.
# Posted on February 22nd 2002 by Jreidy
Re: Half Speed Playback
I have a Sony walkman model WM-GX322 tape recorder/player with variable speed playback. It doesn't go down to half speed though--more like one third slower, dropping the pitch a fifth (I realize the math there probably doesn't add up, but the drop in pitch is exactly down a fifth, so it works well for fiddle--I just move down a string). I mention all this just so you'll be careful to verify the half-speed feature before you buy. On the positive side, my Sony has run perfectly for 3 years of steady use and abuse.
A friend with a Marantz is very happy wiith it--reliable, easy to use, and well worth the expense, he says.
Also be aware that some people really have a grudge against slowing recordings down to learn tunes. I happen to think it's a great tool, one that I used a lot in the early years because I didn't often have access to a teacher to play them slowly for me. It also was a pretty efficient way to study various players to understand how they approached a tune--phrasing, ornamentation, timing, etc. At the risk of sounding like my 8th grade science teacher with frogs on the tables and scalpels in hand, you can really pick a tune apart and get inside it at slow speeds, and it's inspiring as a beginner to hear how spot on clean some of these players are with rolls and triplets, etc.
I don't slow tunes down so much anymore, but occasionally it helps to pick out a few choice notes or ornaments, or to better hear what's going on when a lot of instruments are hammering away all at once. Sometimes I do it just to admire a player's timing or touch--Eileen Ivers has the most amazing *absolutely perfect* timing and rhythm! Slow down one of her fast reels sometime and just listen to how she nails the beats.
Some Irish Trad music email lists are beset with people who jump at the opportunity to tell you how "untraditional" and even "wrong" it is to learn this way. Yes, it's good to learn how to pick up tunes at normal playing speed, but you'll no doubt naturally start to do that as you get more comfortable with the music. In the meantime, I say take advantage of any tool that works for you.
# Posted on February 22nd 2002 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Half Speed Playback
I thought the traditional way of learning a tune was, well, learning it from being past along some way.
I mean, what's the difference of using a machine to slow the tune down and a mate who's playing the tune slow so you can pick it up?
When the group I'm in rehearses together and someone does not know the tune, we keep it slow untill we are all up to speed. I've seen it done in some sessions as well, that is sessions where there are tune swaps.
I've heard of machines like you guys are talking about, but never seen one. Sounds pretty neat!
# Posted on February 22nd 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Half Speed Playback
I understand that you weren't interested in software, but as a help for other who are interested in slowing down recordings I'd just like to remind of WinAmp plug-ins like 'Slow me down' or 'Pacemaker' that will let you slow down an MP3-file (and in some cases also wav-files or CD-audio tracks) without changing the pitch. Very helpful and cheap (free).
And as a comment about the pros and cons of this mechanical way of learning tunes:
This will let you know how a musician 'really' plays a tune in full tempo. Not how he/she thinks he/she does. As sometimes is the case when you ask a musician to play a tune slower to let you know how it goes.
lars
# Posted on February 22nd 2002 by lars
Re: Half Speed Playback
The BOSS BR 8 (think this is the right name) has a built in phase sampler. It will slow a recording down and keep the pitch. This is a mini 8 track digital recording studio aimed at Guitarists (lots of effects). Uses zip disks to record things. It has a 4 track little brother recording things on a different media, which is cheaper.
Probably overkill for your needs and not palm sized (not meant for carting around at sessions). This would be useful for deciphering CD recordings up to speed, and recording your own music with friends amoungst other things.
The previous comment about recording someone to playing a tune at a moderate pace is a good one, then record them playing it at a reasonable tempo to get the feel. If you get a good recording of the tune you are home, no need for the technology.
Bill
# Posted on February 24th 2002 by BillMuir
Soundscape - Roland Homerecording-Workstation - DJ-CD-Player...
My first Half-Speed CD I got burned from a friend, who works as a sound engineer and has access to Soundscape - a professional track editor, which you can get in the very expensive hardware version or in a less expensive (but no cheap thing anyway) software version. The hardware version gives excellent slowed down tune quality so you hear every detail - in the original pitch/tuning!!! . However - to buy one means start semiprofessional homerecording (or beeing rich enough to buy some toy far beyond PS2). But to find somehow-sometimes acces to Soundscape means to get best quality slowed down tunes in original tuning....
however - I donīt have Soundscape acces whenever I need it. So I searched for different solutions: A couple of weeks I tried a second hand Roland 8-track digital home recording workstation (wich I didnīt buy because the operation of this box was to much techi for me). one of the many features of the station allowed to slow down tunes by max. 25% without changing the pitch/tuning ... but the sound quality gets poor.
professional cd players which you find in dance clubs or in DJ-Racks ( rent them at a very low fare during weekdays for just one afternoon) have a good and easy to adjust pitch control. But more than 15 - 20 % slower brings very bad and horribly muffled sound - tuning down the fiddle is best to practice with these slowed and pitched down tapes ( best results I had by pitching down the cd 10 - 12 % which means two tones (a to f for example).
Pitching/slowing down tunes down a whole octave is not really of help in my opinion - the sound gets too poor and unprecise for good practising.
# Posted on February 25th 2002 by crannog
Transcribe 5.0 Software
This software is available for free download and trial at:
http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/index.html
I'm a total believer in the slowdown process for now, hoping that someday I'll be able to learn tunes just by hearing them at any speed. I'd have to know more about the backgrounds of the grudge-holders (7 generations of fiddlers on both sides of the family?) to appreciate their point of view. For me, it's just an expedient - I don't live anywhere near ITMs.
Transcribe has three features that have made me a dedicated user in the process of learning tunes by slowing down recordings (from CDs or sessions):
1. Continuously variable tempo, pitch and tuning.
2. Automatic repetition of any length selection. (It displays the soundfile as a waveform, just click and drag to set a loop) Markers can be set to remember sections, A & B parts, etc.
3. Spectrographic pitch analysis to show what scale notes are played. Sometimes you just can't "hear" fast enough to pull the notes out of a sequence. This feature lets you analyze one note at a time and displays the pitch information as a graph a bove a piano keyboard!
It runs beautifully on Macs and now has a Microsoft-compatible version, too - although I haven't had a chance to try the Windows version yet. It obviates the need for any expensive dedicated solution. (Since you all are reading this I assume you have computers
For those who are opposed to using computers in this process, you can simply record the slowed-down sound output from the computer to a cassette, MiniDisc or burn it on a CD. Then it will be more portable, although less handy for learning phrases by repetition.
# Posted on February 25th 2002 by Laughtonb
Sorry about double post!
I'm on my Microsoft computer at work, it was giving connection errors. Hope someone will clean it up. I'll post from my Mac at home from now on.
Sorry!
Bob
# Posted on February 25th 2002 by Laughtonb
Transcribe is it
hi, forget about all i said before .... Bob, thank you for the hint, I tried transcribe and Iīm an immediate fan of this tool. it is true, that this is no handheld tool, but I think minidisk will help ..... bye, volker
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by crannog
Re: Half Speed Playback
Thanks for all the input. I went ahead and ordered the Sony hand-held recorder that has the digital pitch control. I have a feeling, though no one can confirm this, it will slow the speed down without changing the pitch, and I will post the skinny when I get the thing in my hands.
# Posted on March 3rd 2002 by Jreidy