I am a fiddler, who is thinking about playing the concertina. Most of the time I play tunes and acompany songs. I write tunes and like mostly english and scottish stuff. Any suggestions about whether to go for an anglo or an english ( bearing in mind what sort things I do) would be appreciated. Also any hints on what sort to buy would be great.
Thanks!
One thing that is important is whether or not bisonoric instruments "click" for you. Some people have no problem with an instrument that plays differently depending on bellows directions, some do.
If you don't like bisonoric instruments, that pretty much takes Anglos out of the running.
Thank you for all of your replies. I guessed it probably was an old chestnut. I am leaning torwards an english, as a fiddler/whistler it seems more logical to me than the idea of one button producing 2 notes and I am not particularly into ITM.
Using the English, you will be able to play every tune no matter what the key. Also, you will probably like the logical layout of the keyboards. You have notes that are on a line on one hand and notes in spaces on the other, you have naturals on the center two rows and accents on the outside rows. There is an air valve but you rarely need it. Very logical. Try to get one with atleast 7 or 9 folds of bellows.
But the anglo concertina, like the button accordion creates a very lyrical voice changing notes on the push and pull of the bellows. That is what I love so much about my BC button box. I am an awful player, but the beautiful tones just mezmerize me and help me relax. Enjoy, Jim.
Usually this question is asked by someone who is interested in playing *irish* music on the concertina. And I always recommend the anglo. This is one instance that I'll gladly recommend the english system. Where's Mark when we need 'im???
If you get a quality instrument (that is, a real concertina with real concertina reeds, or one of the instruments made by yer man Tedrow) you'll need no more than 6 fold bellows for an english system instrument.
When Dow sees this...
This is one instance where it really could go either way I mean English system in Scottish music a concertina in it in general. I also think if playing English music buy an English instrument catch my drift.
Not to worry, Bryher, it may be old to us, but it's new to you, and that's what counts. I groaned because it's always cause for hilarity (and a lot of cyber-yelling) when Mark and Sandy and possibly others gather round on this subject, y'see...! LOL
I disagree with Sandy. I'd say get an Anglo for sure. English, Irish and Scottish trad music is all basically like bouncy rhythms, and Anglos are *really* really bouncy. English concertinas are only good for use as doorstops or children's toys. I wish I had been sensible and got an Anglo from the start. Hee hee... sorry :-p
I'm trying to think of a musical way you could use an English, and you know what, I'd say even sea shanties would sound better on an Anglo. 'Cause sea shanties are *really* bouncy too. If you're an OAP and wear purple and green and strange hats and want to play twee little solo English songs at the local "folk club" or "singaround", then an English is the thing for you! It's okay people I have to go now - I have things to do at the post office...
Yeah, Id say get an Anglo. I gave up my English cause I just couldnt play "Bouncy" music on it.
If you want to play Irish music and go to sessions where people smile and offer you a beer, get
an Anglo. If you want to play Irish music and go to sessions where people frown and offer you
their opinons, get an English.
No no no! Irish music's a different story Fuzzy. I reckon English is okay for Irish music. Anything goes for Irish music. People in Irish sessions are friendly and welcoming to all, so an English should be just fine. For anything else I'd recommend an Anglo though for that nice *bouncy* feel. Jack reckoned that Anglos *bounce* well...
Just when you think you have Dow pegged he turns around and says the *complete* opposite of what you would think he'd say. Dow - stop messing with our minds!!!
Dow's right, if you want to play Irish music, a bandoline is perfect. If it's cajun music you're keen on, use an english system. I hear they only use anglos for French county music.
ok, well I am not that fussed about ITM, and I live in North Bucks in England, so I don't care if people frown at me if I play irish on an an english box!!! So I think I still want to go for the english system. Anyone know of any good dealers in England, in the Bucks/Beds area?
Hi - why would you go to a traditional Irish music site to get information if you're not fussed about trad? Not being defensive but am curisious about it...
Beebs, I'm not interested in trad at all, but come to this site. And just looking through this thread again, the suggestion that English music should be played on an English concertina because it has "English" in its name carries a lot of weight. I completely agree. Like, I think of it this way, okay you have the "French Horn" and the "Cor Anglais" in an orchestra. Obviously only French music should be played on the French Horn, but I reckon that you could get away with playing French and English music on the Cor Anglais because "Anglais" means "English" in French. Sorry but that's such a strong argument, nobody can possibly contradict me.
mmm I didn't expect my query to produce so much of a discussion. I chose this site because it is active. I do play irish stuff, but not exclusively. I like loads of other trad music as well, particulary english stuff because this is where I live. There are not that many purely irish sessions in this area, but there are alot of sessions around here. You could go out and play every night except Friday. In most of them people play whatever sort of traditional music they like. There are very few concertina players round here so it would be a novelty to see one whatever sort it is, and whatever I music I decide to play on it.
Bryher said: "I don't care if people frown at me if I play Irish on an English box". Good for you! The low caste frowned-upon brotherhood welcome you and appreciate your strong will. I spent months in a state of deep depression and attended counselling sessions because I did not know how to deal with the prejudice that was being heaped upon me as an English player. I hope you don't have to go through the same trauma...
LOL -- Bryher, I hope you realize that Mark (Dow), Jack, Sandy, and company are mainly taking the opportunity to tweak each other and be outrageous, and not to take anything personally. I know it's hard to tell, but they really are offering some advice (you get to decide if it's "good" yourself) in amongst all the banter, hard though it may be to find in there... *snort*
Dow, I can tell you're not that interested in trad..if you were, there is no way you'd be able to down so many pints at the session, you'd be too busy playing if you actually liked the music
Bryher, wecome from the "Low Caste Frowned-Upon Brotherhood Of English Concertina Players"
If you do choose the English system, mark my words well, the road is a difficult one.
But with courage, strength and perseverance you will find fulfillment and joy unspeakable in the path
you have chosen. Pay no attention to those that would frown upon thee and seek to draw thee from
the path of the English Concertina. Though the temptation to play "Bouncy" music and the pressure
from others to switch to the Anglo may at times be overwhelming, know that the Brotherhood is here to
draw strength from. Choose well and Squeeze on!
In Dow's last post -- take the words "English Concertina" and replace with the word "bodhran" or "eggy-shakers" and you'll see he is suffering from the same insecurity complex that the Brotherhood of Boom Boom are on this website.
Ok ok... since Dow hasn't smashed my anglo over my head yet... I'll do it for you -- Bryher, wecome from the "Low Caste Frowned-Upon Brotherhood Of bodhr
I hear you Jack, but I think the bodhran is a completely different kettle of fish. For one thing, it has an Irish name, so obviously you can only play Irish music on it. The English concertina has been cursed forever with a name that limits its use to English music only. And since all Irish music is good (I'm told that great players can make even Tam Lin sound like a good tune), and all English music is sh*te, then players of the bodhran must surely rank higher in terms of social status than players of the dreaded English concertina.
But where does that leave the Anglo? Forget French music. I'm concerned about the "Anglo-German" thing. Isn't Anglo short for "Anglo-German". I think someone who knows [cares? ] about the history of the Anglo, or maybe someone who can be bothered to look it up on the net should enlighten us. Some important revelation might come out of this thread that could send shockwaves throughout the Anglo-playing world.
Having said all that, I do agree that bodhran players must suffer similar symptoms of depression due to ostracization from more socially acceptable members of the trad-playing community. That's why bodhran players have my sympathies also. Fuzzy you're right, maybe we should print an international newsletter, and why not take it one stage further and set up a 24-hour helpline?
Actually is Tam Lin even Irish? I've just realised I know nothing about the tune whatsoever. Maybe I'll look it up in the tunes section and find out. Or maybe I'll go and do that pile of dishes instead.
I want to know when Chris Smith is going to write a paper entitled "Tune-playing on the English Concertina as a Socially Divisive Behavior in Traditional Irish Music Sessions".
When I was a student, Dow, I worked out that if I lived on boiled carrots and ate the carrots out of the saucepan, I only ever had 1 saucepan and 1 fork to wash.
Then in later years, in a period of batching, Him Indoors being both absent and our usual cook, I discovered that if you found a few nice kinds of bread and ate them au naturel straight out of the bag, I only ever had to wash up when I ran out of wine glasses
Nah but I'll alert him by saying I've just unearthed a pair of unlabeled frosty pink high-heeled wellies, & they're going to the Salvation Army if they remain unclaimed.
I will also say I've broken up the un-packing process last night with a cracking session, reunion with good friends at J. Patricks & Paddy Keenan is playing at a church tonight literally 6 blocks from my parents house, so I'll be walking. There is a God. OK so he created Brood X (cicadas, do a Google search), but I can forgive him. Anyone know a good setting of Sporting Nell? Only been here 48 hours, & things are looking pretty sweet.
Many good English Concertina players can play "Bouncy" music, the reason English concertinas sound more "lagato" then the anglo is because the player isnt constantly changing below direstions. The anglo has to change bellow directions more offten becase of the 2 notes per button, this is partly what gives it its characteristic sound.
I have read of (and heard of) many english players making there concertians sound like anglos by changing between push and pull more often and of anglo players making there boxes sound like anglos by cross fingering and not switching between push and pull as often as they usually do
which concertina?
which concertina?
I am a fiddler, who is thinking about playing the concertina. Most of the time I play tunes and acompany songs. I write tunes and like mostly english and scottish stuff. Any suggestions about whether to go for an anglo or an english ( bearing in mind what sort things I do) would be appreciated. Also any hints on what sort to buy would be great.
Thanks!
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by bryher
Re: which concertina?
Auuuugh! LOL -- sorry, Bryher!
Try:
http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1180
http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1675
and last but definitely not least
http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/3295
But PLEASE don't get Mark started up again! LOL
Have fun!
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: which concertina?
Perhaps tusong200 might like to comment on this thread.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: which concertina?
I answer this question frequently at the shop.
Here are the answers/comments
Try to identify the type concertina that you have enjoyed hearing on recordings or in person.
Most players choose the instrument that is readily available or the instrument chosen by a local mentor.
You can play good Irish, English or Scottish music on any style instrument.
Try to spend as much money as possible as it is in best interest of the builder.
Bob Tedrow
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by bt
Re: which concertina?
The various threads listed will show tradeoffs.
One thing that is important is whether or not bisonoric instruments "click" for you. Some people have no problem with an instrument that plays differently depending on bellows directions, some do.
If you don't like bisonoric instruments, that pretty much takes Anglos out of the running.
--Dave
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dave Weinstein
Re: which concertina?
Thank you for all of your replies. I guessed it probably was an old chestnut. I am leaning torwards an english, as a fiddler/whistler it seems more logical to me than the idea of one button producing 2 notes and I am not particularly into ITM.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by bryher
Re: which concertina?
bryher wrote: "I am not particularly into ITM." Well... then it doesn't really matter which system you choose.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: which concertina?
Using the English, you will be able to play every tune no matter what the key. Also, you will probably like the logical layout of the keyboards. You have notes that are on a line on one hand and notes in spaces on the other, you have naturals on the center two rows and accents on the outside rows. There is an air valve but you rarely need it. Very logical. Try to get one with atleast 7 or 9 folds of bellows.
But the anglo concertina, like the button accordion creates a very lyrical voice changing notes on the push and pull of the bellows. That is what I love so much about my BC button box. I am an awful player, but the beautiful tones just mezmerize me and help me relax. Enjoy, Jim.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by meowguy
Re: which concertina?
I'm here John
Usually this question is asked by someone who is interested in playing *irish* music on the concertina. And I always recommend the anglo. This is one instance that I'll gladly recommend the english system. Where's Mark when we need 'im???
If you get a quality instrument (that is, a real concertina with real concertina reeds, or one of the instruments made by yer man Tedrow) you'll need no more than 6 fold bellows for an english system instrument.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Tusong200
Re: which concertina?
Actually I'm not sure if Bob Tedrow (or Frank Edgeley) makes an english system instrument.
If you do buy one of his, do try and spend as much as possible.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Tusong200
Re: which concertina?
When Dow sees this...
This is one instance where it really could go either way I mean English system in Scottish music a concertina in it in general. I also think if playing English music buy an English instrument catch my drift.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Why Bother?
Re: which concertina?
Not to worry, Bryher, it may be old to us, but it's new to you, and that's what counts. I groaned because it's always cause for hilarity (and a lot of cyber-yelling) when Mark and Sandy and possibly others gather round on this subject, y'see...! LOL
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: which concertina?
I disagree with Sandy. I'd say get an Anglo for sure. English, Irish and Scottish trad music is all basically like bouncy rhythms, and Anglos are *really* really bouncy. English concertinas are only good for use as doorstops or children's toys. I wish I had been sensible and got an Anglo from the start. Hee hee... sorry :-p
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
LOL
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: which concertina?
that's torn it, Jack'll be in here again next...run away! run away!
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: which concertina?
I'm trying to think of a musical way you could use an English, and you know what, I'd say even sea shanties would sound better on an Anglo. 'Cause sea shanties are *really* bouncy too. If you're an OAP and wear purple and green and strange hats and want to play twee little solo English songs at the local "folk club" or "singaround", then an English is the thing for you! It's okay people I have to go now - I have things to do at the post office...
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
Yeah, Id say get an Anglo. I gave up my English cause I just couldnt play "Bouncy" music on it.
If you want to play Irish music and go to sessions where people smile and offer you a beer, get
an Anglo. If you want to play Irish music and go to sessions where people frown and offer you
their opinons, get an English.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: which concertina?
No no no! Irish music's a different story Fuzzy. I reckon English is okay for Irish music. Anything goes for Irish music. People in Irish sessions are friendly and welcoming to all, so an English should be just fine. For anything else I'd recommend an Anglo though for that nice *bouncy* feel. Jack reckoned that Anglos *bounce* well...
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
Just when you think you have Dow pegged he turns around and says the *complete* opposite of what you would think he'd say. Dow - stop messing with our minds!!!
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by bb
Re: which concertina?
Dow's right, if you want to play Irish music, a bandoline is perfect. If it's cajun music you're keen on, use an english system. I hear they only use anglos for French county music.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: which concertina?
ok, well I am not that fussed about ITM, and I live in North Bucks in England, so I don't care if people frown at me if I play irish on an an english box!!! So I think I still want to go for the english system. Anyone know of any good dealers in England, in the Bucks/Beds area?
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by bryher
Re: which concertina?
Hi - why would you go to a traditional Irish music site to get information if you're not fussed about trad? Not being defensive but am curisious about it...
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by bb
Re: which concertina?
Cajun on the English?? Never thought of that. Hope the trash truck hasnt come yet. I Gotta save tina...........
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: which concertina?
just go and get a price list, including the second hand list, from hobgoblins in London. There might be another one closer now, I cannae remember.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Jamie
Re: which concertina?
Beebs, I'm not interested in trad at all, but come to this site. And just looking through this thread again, the suggestion that English music should be played on an English concertina because it has "English" in its name carries a lot of weight. I completely agree. Like, I think of it this way, okay you have the "French Horn" and the "Cor Anglais" in an orchestra. Obviously only French music should be played on the French Horn, but I reckon that you could get away with playing French and English music on the Cor Anglais because "Anglais" means "English" in French. Sorry but that's such a strong argument, nobody can possibly contradict me.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
What about the highland pipes? And the Spanish guitar?
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by ...
Re: which concertina?
What about them...?
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
mmm I didn't expect my query to produce so much of a discussion. I chose this site because it is active. I do play irish stuff, but not exclusively. I like loads of other trad music as well, particulary english stuff because this is where I live. There are not that many purely irish sessions in this area, but there are alot of sessions around here. You could go out and play every night except Friday. In most of them people play whatever sort of traditional music they like. There are very few concertina players round here so it would be a novelty to see one whatever sort it is, and whatever I music I decide to play on it.
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by bryher
Re: which concertina?
Bryher said: "I don't care if people frown at me if I play Irish on an English box". Good for you! The low caste frowned-upon brotherhood welcome you and appreciate your strong will. I spent months in a state of deep depression and attended counselling sessions because I did not know how to deal with the prejudice that was being heaped upon me as an English player. I hope you don't have to go through the same trauma...
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
Contact Chris Algar at Barleycorn Concertinas: http://www.concertina.co.uk/
--Dave
# Posted on May 12th 2004 by Dave Weinstein
Re: which concertina?
I play Stairway to Heaven mostly on my anglo these days. Maybe I'll try this French country music next.
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: which concertina?
LOL -- Bryher, I hope you realize that Mark (Dow), Jack, Sandy, and company are mainly taking the opportunity to tweak each other and be outrageous, and not to take anything personally. I know it's hard to tell, but they really are offering some advice (you get to decide if it's "good" yourself) in amongst all the banter, hard though it may be to find in there... *snort*
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: which concertina?
Dow, I can tell you're not that interested in trad..if you were, there is no way you'd be able to down so many pints at the session, you'd be too busy playing if you actually liked the music
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by bb
Re: which concertina?
Bryher, wecome from the "Low Caste Frowned-Upon Brotherhood Of English Concertina Players"
If you do choose the English system, mark my words well, the road is a difficult one.
But with courage, strength and perseverance you will find fulfillment and joy unspeakable in the path
you have chosen. Pay no attention to those that would frown upon thee and seek to draw thee from
the path of the English Concertina. Though the temptation to play "Bouncy" music and the pressure
from others to switch to the Anglo may at times be overwhelming, know that the Brotherhood is here to
draw strength from. Choose well and Squeeze on!
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: which concertina?
Dow said:,"The low caste frowned-upon brotherhood" I love this. Hahaha
Dow, maybe we should start a newsletter!!
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: which concertina?
In Dow's last post -- take the words "English Concertina" and replace with the word "bodhran" or "eggy-shakers" and you'll see he is suffering from the same insecurity complex that the Brotherhood of Boom Boom are on this website.
heh heh heh
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: which concertina?
Ok ok... since Dow hasn't smashed my anglo over my head yet... I'll do it for you -- Bryher, wecome from the "Low Caste Frowned-Upon Brotherhood Of bodhr
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: which concertina?
LOL, Jack you just made my day!!
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: which concertina?
I hear you Jack, but I think the bodhran is a completely different kettle of fish. For one thing, it has an Irish name, so obviously you can only play Irish music on it. The English concertina has been cursed forever with a name that limits its use to English music only. And since all Irish music is good (I'm told that great players can make even Tam Lin sound like a good tune), and all English music is sh*te, then players of the bodhran must surely rank higher in terms of social status than players of the dreaded English concertina.
] about the history of the Anglo, or maybe someone who can be bothered to look it up on the net should enlighten us. Some important revelation might come out of this thread that could send shockwaves throughout the Anglo-playing world.
But where does that leave the Anglo? Forget French music. I'm concerned about the "Anglo-German" thing. Isn't Anglo short for "Anglo-German". I think someone who knows [cares?
Having said all that, I do agree that bodhran players must suffer similar symptoms of depression due to ostracization from more socially acceptable members of the trad-playing community. That's why bodhran players have my sympathies also. Fuzzy you're right, maybe we should print an international newsletter, and why not take it one stage further and set up a 24-hour helpline?
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
Actually is Tam Lin even Irish? I've just realised I know nothing about the tune whatsoever. Maybe I'll look it up in the tunes section and find out. Or maybe I'll go and do that pile of dishes instead.
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
I want to know when Chris Smith is going to write a paper entitled "Tune-playing on the English Concertina as a Socially Divisive Behavior in Traditional Irish Music Sessions".
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
Dishes, Dow?
(ITM content, zip)
When I was a student, Dow, I worked out that if I lived on boiled carrots and ate the carrots out of the saucepan, I only ever had 1 saucepan and 1 fork to wash.
Then in later years, in a period of batching, Him Indoors being both absent and our usual cook, I discovered that if you found a few nice kinds of bread and ate them au naturel straight out of the bag, I only ever had to wash up when I ran out of wine glasses
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Tish
Re: which concertina?
Hehehe. Between Zina's cupboard cleaning, Em's packing and my dish-washing, we should be able to bore every session.org member to death!
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
Yeh, theres enough information about the Tam Lin in the tunes section.
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Jamie
Re: which concertina?
zzzZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: which concertina?
Jack had been playing too much Anglo concertina...
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
You could of course drink straight out of the bottle, but one has to maintain *some* standards...
# Posted on May 13th 2004 by Tish
Re: which concertina?
I guess I can safely assume that Joe Quinn hasn't been following this thread?
# Posted on May 14th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: which concertina?
Nah but I'll alert him by saying I've just unearthed a pair of unlabeled frosty pink high-heeled wellies, & they're going to the Salvation Army if they remain unclaimed.
I will also say I've broken up the un-packing process last night with a cracking session, reunion with good friends at J. Patricks & Paddy Keenan is playing at a church tonight literally 6 blocks from my parents house, so I'll be walking. There is a God. OK so he created Brood X (cicadas, do a Google search), but I can forgive him. Anyone know a good setting of Sporting Nell? Only been here 48 hours, & things are looking pretty sweet.
# Posted on May 14th 2004 by emily_bmore
Re: which concertina?
Ask this chap about concertinas.
http://www.concertinoontheroad.de/
# Posted on May 14th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: which concertina?
That guy's hilarious!
# Posted on May 14th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: which concertina?
Many good English Concertina players can play "Bouncy" music, the reason English concertinas sound more "lagato" then the anglo is because the player isnt constantly changing below direstions. The anglo has to change bellow directions more offten becase of the 2 notes per button, this is partly what gives it its characteristic sound.
I have read of (and heard of) many english players making there concertians sound like anglos by changing between push and pull more often and of anglo players making there boxes sound like anglos by cross fingering and not switching between push and pull as often as they usually do
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by daiv