I thought of this thread after reading Joe Quinn's last contribution on the "Circle or Semi-Circle formation?" discussion. Now I don't know if anyone else has noticed this... but I've noticed that many of my fellow Yanks seem to think when I buy them a drink... and then another... and maybe even another, that it's because I just won the lotto or something. Of course this is never a problem with the Irish fellas, but most of the Yanks rarely reciprocate. (some do) When I go to our local session, I will often buy everyone who's there a drink at the start. And many times not one of them will buy me one -- even when they go for a drink them self. I don't think it means anything other than they aren't thinking about it. When the Irish fellas show up there’s no problem and it's even hard to keep up with them. Eventually I have to surrender and get off the merry-go-round, but it's always a given that we look out for each other at the bar. But the drink etiquette for Yanks seems non-existent. I think we Yanks don't have it wired into our social lexicon maybe. Anyone else notice this, or is it just limited to my circle of musical pals?
Nah, you're right. Yanks just don't take their shout; I think maybe it has something to do with the weird ways we see money and such...and we tip, too.
Jack, I wonder if they think you're paying for it out of tips or gig money for leading the session? And somehow that makes it okay. *smirk*
Here in Helena, we almost always get our drinks for free, wherever we play. Even places that expect us to pay often give us the first round free. And I do use our session tip jar to buy rounds at other pubs (the pub that hosts our session always plies us with free drinks, even donating kegs when we do house sessions--they are the best hosts you could ever hope to find).
Will... everyone understands the drink policy: $1 off for musicians. I'll often buy the first round even when I'm not the host of the session, and I'll notice it happening with other people too when they do the same. It's something I would never have noticed if I didn't have the habits of the Irish fellas to compare. Like I said, it's not everybody, but it's never the paddies. I'm not whining here, but rather, just noticing something that's a curiosity.
When there are loads of people in the session, we often split into twos or threes for rounds rather than buying for 12 people and so embarrassing those who can't afford to reciprocate.
Many years ago in Ireland there was a TV advertising campaign called "the round is dead", or something like that. It was trying to break the psychological pressure on people to keep up with the heaviest drinker in the group, and maybe save a few folks from descent into the pits of alcoholism.
I know it goes against the image and spirit of Irish / college drinking good fellowship, but it had an undeniable point.
Joe -- Right, I didn't mention that there's usually only about a half dozen people at our sessions. And I don't expect to see anyone to stay away if they can't afford to be on a merry-go-round. But the people I'm noticing have plenty of money, and like I say; they aren't doing this consciously.
There was a fiddler on holiday from Waterford here recently who was very happy to have found a session he enjoyed. I noticed that he was buying a lot more drinks for the Yanks than the Yanks were buying for him. I also picked up that he was a bit perplexed by this. My attempts at rectifying this brought this curiosity about my fellow Yanks to the forefront. When this other guy from Sligo showed up, the three of us took turns looking after each other’s pints. The night ended with him, the fella from Sligo and myself as the only ones left -- and we all had a full pint in front of us.
Perhaps some of the folks that had left already would argue that the visitors from Ireland are going to make an alcoholic out of me, but I'm not worried, it only happens on session nights.
I want to be perfectly clear: I'm not complaining, there's no problem, I don't care whether or not they reciprocate. It's just a curiosity. I want to know if anyone else has noticed this predilection among Yanks.
ok, i'm about to start regularly attending a session and i get the "drinking etiquette" fine, but being a ridiculously poor student currently, i'll barely be able to buy myself a drink let alone the whole crew!!! what should i do!?
If you're playing with yanks... no bother. If you're playing with folks from Ireland, maybe when they offer to get you a drink, tell them something like: "No thanks, I can't even afford to buy myself a drink." To Yanks this might seem strange, but to the paddies, they might understand that you can't afford to ride on the merry-go-round. They might say back to you something like: "That's ok... I'll get you one anyway." Then when you don't reciprocate, they won't think you're "mean."
I can see it coming... "Jack -- what do you mean by "mean"?
I've heard the term "mean" applied to people that are stingy, or tight with their money. Kind of like the opposite of generous I guess. If you ever hear them saying so and so is "mean," that could be what they mean. (Isn’t the English language great?)
lol it'll be with the edinburgh lads and lasses mostly! so i'm not sure how they'll respond! ach well who cares its about the music not the drinking eh!
Everybody sits apparently quite content with their empty pint. Then someone cracks and stands up to go to the bar and every one gets their order in. The trick is to avoid eye-contact if you are the first to stand up. This can be learned from bar-staff.
Some pubs give free drink to musicians, but being Aberdeen, the place soon fills up with thirsty folk carrying instrument cases.
Seriously, if you're skint, nobody expects you to get into a big round. If you say so when offered, and the buyer insists, then don't feel bad about not reciprocating, they understand.
At one of the pub sessions I go to there is indeed a pint of free beer or whatever provided, but only after about an hour or so into the session, so the pub's policy ensures that only actual session musicians get it.
Btw, the bar staff know our requirements by heart.
Trevor
OK... this has been great... thanks lads. Now... I wonder if we can compare what the drink-deal is at our various locals -- just for fun... and out of curiosity. As I mentioned earlier, our local offers $ off and sodas are free. Every once and a while a free drink will come our way at the barman's discretion, and sometimes a round for all who are playing, but we can’t rely on it. This policy seems a bit "mean" to me, but I'm not in the publican business, so what do I know.
We used to have free drinks here. It ended the week I moved to town - no kidding.
I'm a yank. I bought quite a few drinks for other people last night.
Usually, around here, if drinks aren't being reciprocated it's just because of the mood; everyone may not feel like getting completely p!ssed that night. It all works out in the end, though. Someone will buy me drinks the next week.
A punter named Chad, a yank if ever there was one, often keeps me and my session mates in steady supply of drinks just because he like the music. Come to think of it.... I've goten a lot of free drinks lately....
Rounds are very much a part of drinking here in Manchester, but 4 is about the maximum size amongst people I drink with regularly.
With larger numbers we usually split in to 2 or more rounds.
TTFN
PP
Hey jerball, we have a patron of the drink here too. His name is Chuck, and he has taken it upon himself to rectify what he considers to be a stingy pub policy of drink for musicians. When he comes in, he immediately buys all the musicians a drink. It's a love of ITM that compels him... and his generosity.
It's very variable at the sessions I go to. From The Pot Kiln (Zilch), through the Oxford sessions (usually just one free pint) to the Catherine Wheel (my local) - as much as we could drink up until 2 in the morning, plus a free meal (well it was Paddy's night!), and more regularly, the Herschell, which saw me leaving 3 full pints and a couple of Jamesons which had arrived unasked for (I was driving), the last time I went (I'm sure that some kind person found a use for them after I'd gone!)
Mark
Oh, how about an ancillary question for Statesiders, since it's not the same for youse on the other side of the pond -- how d'you figure out your tip for the waitstaff? I always try to overtip on what would have been the total of my drinks, because generally a session is a pain in the fundament for the staff...
I was in Hughes (Spiddal) one time to hear Festy Conlon play an air and among others who were plying him with strong drink, I sprung for another, for him. When I had given hope that he would still be able to play at all, he walked over to me with a drink he had purchased for the only"Yank" in the crowd, then sat and played John Denver's "Annie's Song" as if it was just for my wife and I. A big man in deed, as well as music.
Come to think of it, I may have sprung for a pint for Jack Gilder once , at Cruises, in Ennis where I never saw but his back all evening. Never did get to send him that recording he asked for though. It got lost in the shuffle. Sorry about that. Great session though.
Ah yes... the tips. Curious custom indeed. I usually tip between 50¢ to $1 per drink. I also tip for drinks that are given to me by the bar staff.
When I was in Ireland I had to get used to being on holiday from having to tip, but I'll never forget the look on the face of the Woman of the House's son at the first B&B we stayed at. He carried our luggage to our room for us and I handed him £5 note. He took it and stared into it. He froze in the doorway not sure what to do. My wife said, "We don't tip over here honey." I said, "I guess I'm not here yet." and I winked at him and motioned for him to keep it. He disappeared down the hallway, and then we peaked out the window and saw him making a B-line for the shop.
Whistle Bare, you sure it was me? What recording? Consider yourself lucky that you could only see my back BTW. If it was too noisy to hear me -- you're twice blessed.
How many Jack Gilders are there in SF area? I carried your address around for a long time before it too got lost. I was recording the session you were in with Mossie Griffin, Guitar, and you were playing concertina that night. Mossie was running the recorder (a neat little SONY prototype) stereo. No reason you should remember me though, my beard wasn't as luxurious as yours.
When you grab the girl's pigtail and give it a sharp pulll, tufbo... ;) Only joking. A Yank is a "Yankee" -- ie: an citizen of the United States. In the US, of course, a Yankee is a Northerner (as opposed to a Southerner).
Ah, human beings, you gotta love 'em; we DO like our little cliques...
There's a related question I'd ask. I went for some time to a session in the last American town I lived in. The hosts graciously give us free drinks for the full 2-3 hours. Most of us keep it simple (soft drinks or a simple pint), but a couple of folks (who are not poor, BTW) make a point of ordering the most expensive whiskeys available and other elaborate mixed drinks. I think this is overdoing it. Drink the house hooch and play your best for it, and buy your own 18-year old single malt and use it at home, I would say.
Ottery is right about the Herschel Arms. Free drinks all night (including Jameson's) AND food. Tom King is a superb landlord and host..if anyone dares speak during a song or slow air they get VERY short shrift from him ("Shut the ***k up" usually but in such a way you could nver be offended..a great gift!). A great pub for a session, despite being in Slough.
If anyone is interested the name of the pub come from William Herschel who was the Astronomer Royal after Isaac Newton (I think). He was very fond of Early Irish music and loved the odd Guinness and was often to be found wandering the streets of Slough looking for a good session.
Drinking Etiquette
Drinking Etiquette
I thought of this thread after reading Joe Quinn's last contribution on the "Circle or Semi-Circle formation?" discussion. Now I don't know if anyone else has noticed this... but I've noticed that many of my fellow Yanks seem to think when I buy them a drink... and then another... and maybe even another, that it's because I just won the lotto or something. Of course this is never a problem with the Irish fellas, but most of the Yanks rarely reciprocate. (some do) When I go to our local session, I will often buy everyone who's there a drink at the start. And many times not one of them will buy me one -- even when they go for a drink them self. I don't think it means anything other than they aren't thinking about it. When the Irish fellas show up there’s no problem and it's even hard to keep up with them. Eventually I have to surrender and get off the merry-go-round, but it's always a given that we look out for each other at the bar. But the drink etiquette for Yanks seems non-existent. I think we Yanks don't have it wired into our social lexicon maybe. Anyone else notice this, or is it just limited to my circle of musical pals?
# Posted on March 20th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Nah, you're right. Yanks just don't take their shout; I think maybe it has something to do with the weird ways we see money and such...and we tip, too.
# Posted on March 20th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Jack, I wonder if they think you're paying for it out of tips or gig money for leading the session? And somehow that makes it okay. *smirk*
Here in Helena, we almost always get our drinks for free, wherever we play. Even places that expect us to pay often give us the first round free. And I do use our session tip jar to buy rounds at other pubs (the pub that hosts our session always plies us with free drinks, even donating kegs when we do house sessions--they are the best hosts you could ever hope to find).
# Posted on March 20th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Deep pockets and short arms or else sound man syndrome.
# Posted on March 20th 2004 by Dphil
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Sound man syndrome?
Will... everyone understands the drink policy: $1 off for musicians. I'll often buy the first round even when I'm not the host of the session, and I'll notice it happening with other people too when they do the same. It's something I would never have noticed if I didn't have the habits of the Irish fellas to compare. Like I said, it's not everybody, but it's never the paddies. I'm not whining here, but rather, just noticing something that's a curiosity.
# Posted on March 20th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
When there are loads of people in the session, we often split into twos or threes for rounds rather than buying for 12 people and so embarrassing those who can't afford to reciprocate.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Drinks lined up in front of me within easy reach of my right hand.
Trevor
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Drinking Etiquette
I always wondered how that worked, Joe -- I couldn't see poeple staying away fromt he pub because they couldn't afford a round...
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Many years ago in Ireland there was a TV advertising campaign called "the round is dead", or something like that. It was trying to break the psychological pressure on people to keep up with the heaviest drinker in the group, and maybe save a few folks from descent into the pits of alcoholism.
I know it goes against the image and spirit of Irish / college drinking good fellowship, but it had an undeniable point.
Didn't work anyway, as is clear to see.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by grego
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Joe -- Right, I didn't mention that there's usually only about a half dozen people at our sessions. And I don't expect to see anyone to stay away if they can't afford to be on a merry-go-round. But the people I'm noticing have plenty of money, and like I say; they aren't doing this consciously.
There was a fiddler on holiday from Waterford here recently who was very happy to have found a session he enjoyed. I noticed that he was buying a lot more drinks for the Yanks than the Yanks were buying for him. I also picked up that he was a bit perplexed by this. My attempts at rectifying this brought this curiosity about my fellow Yanks to the forefront. When this other guy from Sligo showed up, the three of us took turns looking after each other’s pints. The night ended with him, the fella from Sligo and myself as the only ones left -- and we all had a full pint in front of us.
Perhaps some of the folks that had left already would argue that the visitors from Ireland are going to make an alcoholic out of me, but I'm not worried, it only happens on session nights.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Simple solution if Yanks won't get the next round - sit and stare at them rattling empty glass. If they don't get the hint - get them a half of water.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Drinking Etiquette
I want to be perfectly clear: I'm not complaining, there's no problem, I don't care whether or not they reciprocate. It's just a curiosity. I want to know if anyone else has noticed this predilection among Yanks.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
ok, i'm about to start regularly attending a session and i get the "drinking etiquette" fine, but being a ridiculously poor student currently, i'll barely be able to buy myself a drink let alone the whole crew!!! what should i do!?
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by aye
Re: Drinking Etiquette
If you're playing with yanks... no bother. If you're playing with folks from Ireland, maybe when they offer to get you a drink, tell them something like: "No thanks, I can't even afford to buy myself a drink." To Yanks this might seem strange, but to the paddies, they might understand that you can't afford to ride on the merry-go-round. They might say back to you something like: "That's ok... I'll get you one anyway." Then when you don't reciprocate, they won't think you're "mean."
I can see it coming... "Jack -- what do you mean by "mean"?
I've heard the term "mean" applied to people that are stingy, or tight with their money. Kind of like the opposite of generous I guess. If you ever hear them saying so and so is "mean," that could be what they mean. (Isn’t the English language great?)
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
lol it'll be with the edinburgh lads and lasses mostly! so i'm not sure how they'll respond! ach well who cares its about the music not the drinking eh!
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by aye
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Mike, you could try the "Aberdeen stand-off".
Everybody sits apparently quite content with their empty pint. Then someone cracks and stands up to go to the bar and every one gets their order in. The trick is to avoid eye-contact if you are the first to stand up. This can be learned from bar-staff.
Some pubs give free drink to musicians, but being Aberdeen, the place soon fills up with thirsty folk carrying instrument cases.
Seriously, if you're skint, nobody expects you to get into a big round. If you say so when offered, and the buyer insists, then don't feel bad about not reciprocating, they understand.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Bren
Re: Drinking Etiquette
At one of the pub sessions I go to there is indeed a pint of free beer or whatever provided, but only after about an hour or so into the session, so the pub's policy ensures that only actual session musicians get it.
Btw, the bar staff know our requirements by heart.
Trevor
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Drinking Etiquette
OK... this has been great... thanks lads. Now... I wonder if we can compare what the drink-deal is at our various locals -- just for fun... and out of curiosity. As I mentioned earlier, our local offers $ off and sodas are free. Every once and a while a free drink will come our way at the barman's discretion, and sometimes a round for all who are playing, but we can’t rely on it. This policy seems a bit "mean" to me, but I'm not in the publican business, so what do I know.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
We have a tab up to a certain amount, and after that we pay for our own. Quite generous tab, too.
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Our local session haunt is very geneours....I'm just waiting for the bubble to burst. Its been about 4 years tho...hope I'm not tempting fate
# Posted on March 21st 2004 by bb
Re: Drinking Etiquette
We used to have free drinks here. It ended the week I moved to town - no kidding.
I'm a yank. I bought quite a few drinks for other people last night.
Usually, around here, if drinks aren't being reciprocated it's just because of the mood; everyone may not feel like getting completely p!ssed that night. It all works out in the end, though. Someone will buy me drinks the next week.
A punter named Chad, a yank if ever there was one, often keeps me and my session mates in steady supply of drinks just because he like the music. Come to think of it.... I've goten a lot of free drinks lately....
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by jerball
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Rounds are very much a part of drinking here in Manchester, but 4 is about the maximum size amongst people I drink with regularly.
With larger numbers we usually split in to 2 or more rounds.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Hey jerball, we have a patron of the drink here too. His name is Chuck, and he has taken it upon himself to rectify what he considers to be a stingy pub policy of drink for musicians. When he comes in, he immediately buys all the musicians a drink. It's a love of ITM that compels him... and his generosity.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
It's very variable at the sessions I go to. From The Pot Kiln (Zilch), through the Oxford sessions (usually just one free pint) to the Catherine Wheel (my local) - as much as we could drink up until 2 in the morning, plus a free meal (well it was Paddy's night!), and more regularly, the Herschell, which saw me leaving 3 full pints and a couple of Jamesons which had arrived unasked for (I was driving), the last time I went (I'm sure that some kind person found a use for them after I'd gone!)
Mark
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Ottery
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Oh, how about an ancillary question for Statesiders, since it's not the same for youse on the other side of the pond -- how d'you figure out your tip for the waitstaff? I always try to overtip on what would have been the total of my drinks, because generally a session is a pain in the fundament for the staff...
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Drinking Etiquette
I was in Hughes (Spiddal) one time to hear Festy Conlon play an air and among others who were plying him with strong drink, I sprung for another, for him. When I had given hope that he would still be able to play at all, he walked over to me with a drink he had purchased for the only"Yank" in the crowd, then sat and played John Denver's "Annie's Song" as if it was just for my wife and I. A big man in deed, as well as music.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by wvwhistler
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Come to think of it, I may have sprung for a pint for Jack Gilder once , at Cruises, in Ennis where I never saw but his back all evening. Never did get to send him that recording he asked for though. It got lost in the shuffle. Sorry about that. Great session though.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by wvwhistler
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Ah yes... the tips. Curious custom indeed. I usually tip between 50¢ to $1 per drink. I also tip for drinks that are given to me by the bar staff.
When I was in Ireland I had to get used to being on holiday from having to tip, but I'll never forget the look on the face of the Woman of the House's son at the first B&B we stayed at. He carried our luggage to our room for us and I handed him £5 note. He took it and stared into it. He froze in the doorway not sure what to do. My wife said, "We don't tip over here honey." I said, "I guess I'm not here yet." and I winked at him and motioned for him to keep it. He disappeared down the hallway, and then we peaked out the window and saw him making a B-line for the shop.
Whistle Bare, you sure it was me? What recording? Consider yourself lucky that you could only see my back BTW. If it was too noisy to hear me -- you're twice blessed.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
How many Jack Gilders are there in SF area? I carried your address around for a long time before it too got lost. I was recording the session you were in with Mossie Griffin, Guitar, and you were playing concertina that night. Mossie was running the recorder (a neat little SONY prototype) stereo. No reason you should remember me though, my beard wasn't as luxurious as yours.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by wvwhistler
Re: Drinking Etiquette
hahahaha... I owe you a pint. I've never considered my beard as "luxurious". A kitten I was holding once did though I think.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Drinking Etiquette
That's a *lovely* mental image for the afternoon, Jack... *smirk*
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Drinking Etiquette
What's a Yank?
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by tufbo
Re: Drinking Etiquette
When you grab the girl's pigtail and give it a sharp pulll, tufbo... ;) Only joking. A Yank is a "Yankee" -- ie: an citizen of the United States. In the US, of course, a Yankee is a Northerner (as opposed to a Southerner).
Ah, human beings, you gotta love 'em; we DO like our little cliques...
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Drinking Etiquette
There's a related question I'd ask. I went for some time to a session in the last American town I lived in. The hosts graciously give us free drinks for the full 2-3 hours. Most of us keep it simple (soft drinks or a simple pint), but a couple of folks (who are not poor, BTW) make a point of ordering the most expensive whiskeys available and other elaborate mixed drinks. I think this is overdoing it. Drink the house hooch and play your best for it, and buy your own 18-year old single malt and use it at home, I would say.
Am I too conscious of/picky about this?
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by KenC
Re: Drinking Etiquette
Ottery is right about the Herschel Arms. Free drinks all night (including Jameson's) AND food. Tom King is a superb landlord and host..if anyone dares speak during a song or slow air they get VERY short shrift from him ("Shut the ***k up" usually but in such a way you could nver be offended..a great gift!). A great pub for a session, despite being in Slough.
If anyone is interested the name of the pub come from William Herschel who was the Astronomer Royal after Isaac Newton (I think). He was very fond of Early Irish music and loved the odd Guinness and was often to be found wandering the streets of Slough looking for a good session.
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by Geoff Pollitt