I'm doing a uni essay on the bodhran's ambiguous role in trad music, and cant really get much info on the sometimes negative perception it receives by some players.
I'm sick to the teeth on reading about it being the "heartbeat of trad music". I want something jucier to add to the essay. Just for the record, I have nothing against bodhran players.
Anyone got any comments or useful links??? your help would be much appreciated!!
cheers
L
La`ra,
You see the reason you can't get any info on negative perceptions is that there aren't any. The bodhran, heartbeat of trad. music, is the most universally celebrated and admired instrument. Ask anyone on this site. Honest.
the heartbeat of trad. music rules! ok! just listen to brolum's "Waulking Song" and then tell me the bodhran has a negative effect. WOWEE! i wish i could play it
Well, really, that's almost too much information to give to the poor girl...! (Not that you shouldn't search through the threads, Lara.) Lara, you'll generally find that it's not usually so much the instrument as the person wielding the thing, and that's true for every instrument in the Irish trad conglomerate.
Part of the problem is that the bodhran is often seen as an instrument that you can play "when you can't play actual music", and, surprise, surprise, someone who approaches the bodhran in such a way generally doesn't play music on it at all. Too many bodhran players don't know the tunes and can't be bothered to learn them, and think that they can accompany anything (sometimes in extreme cases up to and including slow airs). (This is also true of guitar players and fiddlers and fluters and all the rest as well.)
I've sat in sessions with bodhran players who played the exact same beat for everything from hornpipes to reels to jigs to slip jigs to airs. I've sat in sessions where you couldn't hear the rest of the instruments from the joyful, exuberant, but, most of all, LOUD goat thumping from the bodhrans.
To more or less quote an extremely famous player I interviewed once for an article, I'm glad they're having fun, I'm glad they're doing something better than sitting at home watching TV, but it makes me wish I wasn't there.
Now, when a bodhran is sensitively played by someone who knows the tunes and what s/he can add to it with a beat, by someone who sees themselves as a musician and behaves as one should -- it really adds to the music, and I really enjoy playing with someone like that.
So has anybody else heard the song about the German tourist in Ireland who hears a bodhran and decides that he's going to play one? Shocked by the price tag, he decides he'll just go out and shoot a goat and make one himself. He doesn't succeed, but instead gets arrested for carrying an unlicensed firearm. I'm afraid I can't provide a source for the song, as it was on a CD loaned to me for a day in Ireland in January, and wasn't in the right jewel case.
Interesting essay choice! I don't have any definative sources or links but would like to offer my own humble opinion.
I think that the reason Bodhran playing has no clear defined role in ITM is because there are so few good bodhran players. I am not talking about the regular names that turn up on recordings, but good session players.
Knowing the tune is vital to good bodhran playing, and the only effective way to learn the tune is by learning to play tunes on a melody instrument. Learning the melody instrument then becomes the main focus and the bodhran becomes the secondary - I know this has happened to me - I wonder how many other players started on a whistle to lern the tunes and got hooked in and turned to melody instead of rythm.
Ok joe "knowing the tune etc" was a bit lame, was in a hurry to get the lads out, but you know what I mean - why do you think that there are so few good players? I know there are good folk out there, but I go to alot of sessions and have only met one really good player - can't say the same for any other instrument.
Joe: its a beast!!!! i know people are just joking with the bodhran comments etc. but i think its ACE! i was practicing over xmas but thats the first time i ever really picked it up. made it my plan to be an expert by the year 2010 (if i'm still living) so every uni holiday i'll be home practicin! (dont have access to any goats in edinburgh)!!!! good luck with the S.A. btw Lara. i've given up writing essays - officially.
steve, i'm going to be pretty philosophical about the whole thing. the trad music (irish/scottish/whatever) is by far the most challenging and interesting and brilliant music around which is why i like it so much. The magnificent music attracts many folks because its so great; and; they hear it and think "wow i want to be involved" so many go for the easy option which is the rhythm section (Same in any form of music); but in reality the rhythm section is very challenging aswell. So there are many bad bodhran players. and only a few good ones.
"keep your hand upon your wages and your eye upon the scale" (true mining bodhran advice)
someone from Limerick Trad course did their Masters thesis on John Joe kelly and is available to read at the archives in dublin ...make interesting and amusing reading ...
Well Laura, I'm touting on ya, to my Da and your Baz, ha ha. Your Baz's painting exhibition starts today in the Conway Mill doesn't it? Are you still going up to Barry's house for a feed during the week? Did you see Cara Dillon on the Meteor awards last night? She did great, got the "Best Female Artist" award, so fair play to her. She did Dungiven very proud anyhow, and a well deserved award for her (not that I'm biased or anything) (",). Anyhow, here are a few quotes for your essay: 1) "If you just pick it up and hack at it, you'll be one more person adding to the bad reputation that plagues Irish traditional percussionists. In Irish traditional music, the tune is everything. You really can't stress enough that getting the rhythm is critical. However, unlike rock and a lot of other styles, the rhythm instruments are not there to create the rhythm, but to draw it out, to accent and highlight it. The rhythm itself comes from the tune - how it is structured and phrased - and how it is played by the melody players alters rhythms greatly. The bodhr
We have occasionally played "session-charades" where a musician drums on the table with two fingers and the other musicians have to guess the tune. You should be able to do it by subtle emphasis ... or whistling if the audience get stuck (Only playable amongst musicians, I know).
You SHOULD be able to do the same on the goat ..... providing you know the tune as well.
John B was a fine author and playwright but he knew f....... all about traditional music.
His attitude to the music and the "musicianers" was typified by the fact that his pub in Listowel was closed for the duration of the Fleadh in 1970, with a notice in the window leaving passers by in no doubt as to the motive.
I think his remarks about the origin and development of the bodhr
A few minutes poking about over a cup of tea reveals that Tambourine is derived from Tambourin, a french word, a diminutive of Tambour.
Tambour itself is Middle English, from Old French, ultimately from Arabic tanbur, (stringed musical instrument) - probably akin to Persian tambur, (lute), from Middle Persian.
From this it seems likely that there is no connection at all between the names of bodhran and tambourine.
The bodhran is actually derived from the old words "Bodkin" or Bod and "ran". Much like the Scottish war pipes it was used as a weapon to cause the enemy "bods" to retreat in fear and disarray.
Nowadays in the absence of any surviving enemies it is employed by bar staff to clear out pubs of beer swilling trad. musos. before they form the nasty habit of regaling inoffensive beer sippers with the music of the gaelic wild savages.
LOL -- gosh, Lara, I *do* hope some of this has helped you, because now you've uncorked Joe and Dave and we may never get them back into their bottles.... *smirk*
Ay up Joe - looks like the ZinaMatic has cut in now.
I guess it's programmed to monitor the number of posts someone puts on a thread, and if two members alternate more than, say, three times, it cuts in with something to try and throw them off track.
thanks very much everyone for your kind help, some good wee quotes to stick in here and there. Murrough, I'm not crediting you for nothing, i'm taking all the credit myself! If its a bad mark, then I'll blame you!!!
Lara
If you put my name on it ur sure to fail :P, so just take all the credit yourself. I wish there was a site like this around when I was doing my masters and I would have just put a few posts up here and there and pledgerised all the good stuff in the replies. Best of luck with the paper, cheatin fecker! :P Hello to Baz from me! Murrough
bodhran and negative perceptions
bodhran and negative perceptions
I'm doing a uni essay on the bodhran's ambiguous role in trad music, and cant really get much info on the sometimes negative perception it receives by some players.
I'm sick to the teeth on reading about it being the "heartbeat of trad music". I want something jucier to add to the essay. Just for the record, I have nothing against bodhran players.
Anyone got any comments or useful links??? your help would be much appreciated!!
cheers
L
# Posted on March 2nd 2004 by Britney Spears
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
La`ra,
You see the reason you can't get any info on negative perceptions is that there aren't any. The bodhran, heartbeat of trad. music, is the most universally celebrated and admired instrument. Ask anyone on this site. Honest.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
the heartbeat of trad. music rules! ok! just listen to brolum's "Waulking Song" and then tell me the bodhran has a negative effect. WOWEE! i wish i could play it
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by aye
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Mike,
Can you direct me to any site or cd where I can hear it?
Thanks,
Joe
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
L
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Joe's right Lara - if you really want to know, look back at past discussions for a huge amount of thoughts and reactions on bodhrans.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Well, really, that's almost too much information to give to the poor girl...! (Not that you shouldn't search through the threads, Lara.) Lara, you'll generally find that it's not usually so much the instrument as the person wielding the thing, and that's true for every instrument in the Irish trad conglomerate.
Part of the problem is that the bodhran is often seen as an instrument that you can play "when you can't play actual music", and, surprise, surprise, someone who approaches the bodhran in such a way generally doesn't play music on it at all. Too many bodhran players don't know the tunes and can't be bothered to learn them, and think that they can accompany anything (sometimes in extreme cases up to and including slow airs). (This is also true of guitar players and fiddlers and fluters and all the rest as well.)
I've sat in sessions with bodhran players who played the exact same beat for everything from hornpipes to reels to jigs to slip jigs to airs. I've sat in sessions where you couldn't hear the rest of the instruments from the joyful, exuberant, but, most of all, LOUD goat thumping from the bodhrans.
To more or less quote an extremely famous player I interviewed once for an article, I'm glad they're having fun, I'm glad they're doing something better than sitting at home watching TV, but it makes me wish I wasn't there.
Now, when a bodhran is sensitively played by someone who knows the tunes and what s/he can add to it with a beat, by someone who sees themselves as a musician and behaves as one should -- it really adds to the music, and I really enjoy playing with someone like that.
HTH -- Zina
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
joe: if you go to www.brolum.co.uk and then to the download section, you can download the Waulking song mp3 there. - FANTASTIC!!!! WOOWOO.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by aye
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
oh yeh for interest: martin o'neil who plays in brolum is all-ireland, all-scotland, and all britain champion on the Bodhran, so hes pretty good.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by aye
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
So has anybody else heard the song about the German tourist in Ireland who hears a bodhran and decides that he's going to play one? Shocked by the price tag, he decides he'll just go out and shoot a goat and make one himself. He doesn't succeed, but instead gets arrested for carrying an unlicensed firearm. I'm afraid I can't provide a source for the song, as it was on a CD loaned to me for a day in Ireland in January, and wasn't in the right jewel case.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
I think it was Tim Lyons who wrote that song, Gary. ( Or possibly Con O'Driscoll.)
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Kenny
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
L
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Im sure Tomai Taylor will be able to give you plenty of negativity if you ask him nicely.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by JimR
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Hi Lara,
Interesting essay choice! I don't have any definative sources or links but would like to offer my own humble opinion.
I think that the reason Bodhran playing has no clear defined role in ITM is because there are so few good bodhran players. I am not talking about the regular names that turn up on recordings, but good session players.
Knowing the tune is vital to good bodhran playing, and the only effective way to learn the tune is by learning to play tunes on a melody instrument. Learning the melody instrument then becomes the main focus and the bodhran becomes the secondary - I know this has happened to me - I wonder how many other players started on a whistle to lern the tunes and got hooked in and turned to melody instead of rythm.
Cheers
Steve
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by clunk999
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Thanks, Mike. I'll have a listen.
Clunk, i came to play the bodhr
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Lara - any relation to Barry Kerr or Lara Croft??
Just type in the word bodhran into the search tab n discussions to get over 1500 comments.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by breandan
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Thanks again, Mike. A graaaaaaaand waulking song.
joe
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Ok joe "knowing the tune etc" was a bit lame, was in a hurry to get the lads out, but you know what I mean - why do you think that there are so few good players? I know there are good folk out there, but I go to alot of sessions and have only met one really good player - can't say the same for any other instrument.
Steve.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by clunk999
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Bodhran....Penknife.....Dynamite... Need I say more?
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Harper_Lad
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Joe: its a beast!!!! i know people are just joking with the bodhran comments etc. but i think its ACE! i was practicing over xmas but thats the first time i ever really picked it up. made it my plan to be an expert by the year 2010 (if i'm still living) so every uni holiday i'll be home practicin! (dont have access to any goats in edinburgh)!!!! good luck with the S.A. btw Lara. i've given up writing essays - officially.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by aye
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
steve, i'm going to be pretty philosophical about the whole thing. the trad music (irish/scottish/whatever) is by far the most challenging and interesting and brilliant music around which is why i like it so much. The magnificent music attracts many folks because its so great; and; they hear it and think "wow i want to be involved" so many go for the easy option which is the rhythm section (Same in any form of music); but in reality the rhythm section is very challenging aswell. So there are many bad bodhran players. and only a few good ones.
"keep your hand upon your wages and your eye upon the scale" (true mining bodhran advice)
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by aye
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Lara feel free to quote my pathetic syntax in your essay. its all true but i just cant articulate it properly
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by aye
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
someone from Limerick Trad course did their Masters thesis on John Joe kelly and is available to read at the archives in dublin ...make interesting and amusing reading ...
is the Bodhr
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by DeffGoat
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
bodhran comes from English 'bourin from "tambourine". I think you can thank Sean O'Riada for its presence in Irish music today.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by HighlandSun
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
The Irish "bodhr
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by LongNote
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
"bodhran comes from English 'bourin from "tambourine"
What? Never heard THAT one. Sources?
Oh, and although the instrument was not used terribly widely, it did appear and was recorded as accompaniment to traditional dance music pre-Riada.
chris smith
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Well Laura, I'm touting on ya, to my Da and your Baz, ha ha. Your Baz's painting exhibition starts today in the Conway Mill doesn't it? Are you still going up to Barry's house for a feed during the week? Did you see Cara Dillon on the Meteor awards last night? She did great, got the "Best Female Artist" award, so fair play to her. She did Dungiven very proud anyhow, and a well deserved award for her (not that I'm biased or anything) (",). Anyhow, here are a few quotes for your essay: 1) "If you just pick it up and hack at it, you'll be one more person adding to the bad reputation that plagues Irish traditional percussionists. In Irish traditional music, the tune is everything. You really can't stress enough that getting the rhythm is critical. However, unlike rock and a lot of other styles, the rhythm instruments are not there to create the rhythm, but to draw it out, to accent and highlight it. The rhythm itself comes from the tune - how it is structured and phrased - and how it is played by the melody players alters rhythms greatly. The bodhr
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by Murrough
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
We have occasionally played "session-charades" where a musician drums on the table with two fingers and the other musicians have to guess the tune. You should be able to do it by subtle emphasis ... or whistling if the audience get stuck (Only playable amongst musicians, I know).
You SHOULD be able to do the same on the goat ..... providing you know the tune as well.
# Posted on March 3rd 2004 by geoffwright
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Chris: http://homepages.iol.ie/~ronolan/bodhran.html
quote attributed to John B Keane
# Posted on March 4th 2004 by HighlandSun
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
John B was a fine author and playwright but he knew f....... all about traditional music.
His attitude to the music and the "musicianers" was typified by the fact that his pub in Listowel was closed for the duration of the Fleadh in 1970, with a notice in the window leaving passers by in no doubt as to the motive.
I think his remarks about the origin and development of the bodhr
# Posted on March 4th 2004 by murfbox
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
The following definition and etymology for the word bodhran is from an online dictionary:
bodhran: - A hand-held goatskin drum used in traditional Irish music and often played with a stick.
[Irish Gaelic bodhr
# Posted on March 4th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
A few minutes poking about over a cup of tea reveals that Tambourine is derived from Tambourin, a french word, a diminutive of Tambour.
Tambour itself is Middle English, from Old French, ultimately from Arabic tanbur, (stringed musical instrument) - probably akin to Persian tambur, (lute), from Middle Persian.
From this it seems likely that there is no connection at all between the names of bodhran and tambourine.
Dave
# Posted on March 4th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Bouzouki comes from a Turkish word meaning "broken." So Irish music these days is full of broken dim-witted deafeners...
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by KLR
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
The bodhran is actually derived from the old words "Bodkin" or Bod and "ran". Much like the Scottish war pipes it was used as a weapon to cause the enemy "bods" to retreat in fear and disarray.
Nowadays in the absence of any surviving enemies it is employed by bar staff to clear out pubs of beer swilling trad. musos. before they form the nasty habit of regaling inoffensive beer sippers with the music of the gaelic wild savages.
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
As in "Ban Joe"?
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Or "Vile Din"
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Or De Ave ....De goodbye
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
LOL -- gosh, Lara, I *do* hope some of this has helped you, because now you've uncorked Joe and Dave and we may never get them back into their bottles.... *smirk*
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Ay up Joe - looks like the ZinaMatic has cut in now.
I guess it's programmed to monitor the number of posts someone puts on a thread, and if two members alternate more than, say, three times, it cuts in with something to try and throw them off track.
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
If we are in the bottle (or our cups), better off being thrown off the track before the 6.15 from Cork whistles through.
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Zina,
Get back to your needlework.
Joe
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Ach, I'm off to the pub. Der be nobody around here dis time of a Friday afternoon.
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
*smirk* Oh, you two.
# Posted on March 5th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
Did you have a good time in corofin Lara??
# Posted on March 9th 2004 by tina concert
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
there should be a shop where, before you can buy a bodhran, you have to trade in two of them.
Onny
# Posted on March 10th 2004 by onyirtodd
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
thanks very much everyone for your kind help, some good wee quotes to stick in here and there. Murrough, I'm not crediting you for nothing, i'm taking all the credit myself! If its a bad mark, then I'll blame you!!!
Lara
# Posted on March 10th 2004 by Britney Spears
Re: bodhran and negative perceptions
If you put my name on it ur sure to fail :P, so just take all the credit yourself. I wish there was a site like this around when I was doing my masters and I would have just put a few posts up here and there and pledgerised all the good stuff in the replies. Best of luck with the paper, cheatin fecker! :P Hello to Baz from me! Murrough
# Posted on March 18th 2004 by Murrough