Hello everyone out there, I've been visiting this forum for a few months now and though it might be time to contribute ...
Question: where do you stand in a situation where a nice tune is in the wrong key for your instrument? Do you go playing it in a more suitable key or would you just not play the tune and just listen to others playing it?
I was just listening to 'flavor of the month' by Solas, written by Brendan Callahan (great tune b.t.w.) in Gmin, which involves Bflats and Eflats. Now if I'ld want to play the tune on my D-flute, could I alter the original key (say to Amin or Bmin) or should I just take it on the F-flute?
Any suggestions? Brendan?
I often play tunes in the "wrong" key simply because I can't remember the original key the tune was written for. This sometimes produces raised eyebrows from my fellow session-goers, but people also tell me that certain tunes sound nicer in the other key. I personally haven't a problem with people playing tunes in different keys (it wouldn't take me to!), and in fact it can sometimes make you look at a tired old tune in a diferent light. Not something you should do if you are new to a particular session but if it allows you to play a hitherto impossible tune than by all means, ga maar door!
I know certain tunes are played in more than one key (e.g. Mason's apron: Amaj for fiddles and Gmaj for flutes?) but actually the question should be: how would you feel if a tune you wrote was beeing played in a different key?
If a Dmaj-reel is played on a Eb-flute, it's played in Ebmaj, wright? No problem there I guess, but see: sometimes a tune was written in a specific key for a porpous: that's the way it's supposed to sound (fiddlers have an advantage there: chromatic and no limits as to the notes they can play). On the flute it's different: restricted to Dmaj, Emin, Gmaj, Amin, Bmin (plus additional modi).
So, do some tunes have a 'wrong' key or just a 'different' key?
This all goes back to the wonderful subject of session etiquette!
Of course tunes can be played in all manner of keys- no doubt some more successfully than others. But the fact is- whoever starts the tune decides on what key it is to be played in and as far as I'm concerned if it doesn't suit you or your instrument- that's just too bad. Sit the tune out, listen to how it's played, remember the key it was in and by all means have a go at it when you get home.
Could you imagine a session where a tune is being played by several different people who are all playing in different keys? (arrrrrggggghhhh- I've had worse nightmares
The fiddle is among the most versatile of instruments when it comes to playing in different keys, but even here preferences surface.
If you play a tune in A or D it usually has significantly more resonance than if you're playing in C, F or Bb. The choice of key can also affect the ease of fingering. For instance, take the phrase dGBG in the key of G. It involves a fair amount of string crossing and moving the 3rd finger across the strings from d to G. No great technical problem, it just needs a bit of work put into it. Now play the same notes in the key of A - eAcA. You now have open strings to use (e and A) and only one finger to go down (for the c). It feels easier and is also more resonant.
It's a good exercise for the more advanced player to take a tune in G that you know very well indeed (and preferably fairly simple if you're doing this exercise for the first time) and play it several times, each time in a different key - A, Bb, B, C, D, F, and even in Eb and Ab if you feel up to it!
Trevor
Melodeeee,
I have no intention what so ever to play any tune in any other key than the one it's beeing played at, (nor would I take an F-flute and play alongside a D-flute with the same fingering, just because the F-flute sounds so nice ..., etiquette, as you say) So sitting out the tune is exactly what I do just now. But ... I also have a weekly teaching-session in which I (well, mostly it's me) teach my fellow-musicians a tune. This question just came to mind because this tune (flavor of ..) came up as a request. I guess no-one would object to it if any of us would go to a session and play the tune in whichever key we like.
But what about 'wrong', 'wright' and different' key's?
fidicen: this is a practice I also use on the flute (fully keyed) to exercise my 'keyability'
O.K- when teaching, I generally pass on a tune in the key it was originally written (this is usually an easier key in which to learn the tune anyway). If I commonly play the tune/ have heard it played in a different key which I think suits it better- I'll let my students hear this once they have mastered the original key. It is then up to them to decide which key they prefer and if they like the *new* key, to have a go at it.
I don't necessarily believe that there is a "right" or "wrong" key- just keys which suit some (not all) tunes.
This one can be a bit contradictory. I agree that in most cases keys like A and D work better on string instruments because of the brighter tone of open strings and possibilities for droning - the Foxhunter reel is one such example played in A, although at most sessions it's normally played in G. However, I'll contradict myself here by saying that the Banks of Lough jig in the key of Am/C sounds infinitely better than the same tune played in Bm/D. Equally the Hole in the Hedge jig (a Martin Hayes & Tulla Céilí Band tune) sounds far better played in C than D. Also many of Paddy Fahy's tunes are in C or F as are some of Paddy O'Brien's (Nenagh) compositions and , to me anyway, this is part of what gives them their distinctiveness. I don't think there's any hard and fast ruling on what is the right or wrong key and that it's just another one of those "horses for courses" matters.
Some tunes if there pentatonic can be played on the whistle in 4 keys.
Take a GHB Jig like "Paddy's Leather Britches" you can play it starting on E, A, B, or D.
On the Pipes "PLB" can be (and is) played in the A and B minor pentatonic.
I find that just by changing the key, a tune can transform into something fairly different. An example most musos knows:
The Star of Munster is regularly played in Am. Try Gm. For me as a fiddler, the dynamics of the tune is altered with the fingering and the lack of open strings.
(Then try to play it with a high third, then as a jig, then.....)
So I guess if you can change keys for the fun of it, there's no harm in changing it for the need of it?
Bannerman, if you say that "jig x" sounds better in the key of C then the (I suppose original) key of D, do you mean "sounds better on the fiddle" or "sounds better in general"?
Playing in different keys is good practice and fine for special arrangements/performances etc.
If you're in a session, however, you should try and "toe the line".
Don't play common tunes on the ocarina in E flat minor or whatever just because you can--especially if you do have a "D" whistle with you all the time. It just gets peoples' backs up. Well, mine, anyway.
Q: what do you get when you throw a piano down a mine-shaft?
A: A flat minor
Anyways, I guess I can (partly) agree with most of you.
So I'll just go off and start practicing this month's flavor in Gmin, octaving a few notes and get a work-out on left-thumb and right-pinky and just tell the fellow-musicians with the no-key-flutes that the tune is a no-go?
I like hearing what other people discover about familiar tunes by putting them in different keys. Lots of E Clare players do this (Paddy Canny's the avatar) but so do people who just interested in finding new ways of hearing the same tunes. I'd think it was something only to do with advance warning in a session, but I'm happy to sit and hear someone else play the tune in a key unfamiliar to me--I'll often hear things I wouldn't have otherwise.
In an equally tempered instrument (that is to say, almost anything out there these days), the differences should largely be ease of playing (or lack thereof).
Most tunes do have a "right key". And it would be daft not to learn them in that key. However, the "wrong keys" can be a hoot. Or try changing key. I like to play Out on the Ocean in A (common enough) then G (common enough) then F (easy on the fiddle) and finish in Emaj. The decending keys sound great and finishing in E sounds very bright, almost like you've been ascending.
I take your point MM that while the tunes sound better in certain keys on some instruments (say C on the fiddle) it would not be the case on the D Tin Whistle where the lower notes became inaccessible. In a session situation (or any ensemble mode) this would not, however, be noticeable.
I usually learn the tune in whatever key the local players have it in so that I can join in rather than playing it solo. If no one else knows the tune I learn it in the key from my source, or change the key to suit my instrument.
There's a good handful of tunes that come up that are either in G or A, Gdor or Edor, Dmaj or Cmaj. If you're an idiot savant or something you can learn them in all the different keys, but if you're just an average player like me -- you sit and enjoy listening to others play it in a different key from the one you know it in.
>Could you imagine a session where a tune is being played by several different people who are all playing in different keys?
I am regularly (although inadvertently) the cause of such sessions.
If you play a tune with lots of flats (i.e. 2 or more) in a key with a sharp or two or three, I think more people will be happy than upset. Just B natural.
I learned a reel (Martin Rochford's) in C, heard it at a session in D. It kinda puzzled me for a bit, but it was fun to hear the tune anyway, and it's good to have your expectations jarred every once in a while. It's good to keep your mind agile, if not just your fingers...
I picked up The Pinch of Snuff at Willie Week in '96, they were playing it ala Sean Maguire, starting in D, up to G, up to A, up to D. Great fun. I do this now with the Mason's Apron as a practice/warmup tune (not in sessions tho) and play it in C, D, G, and A. Sometimes I try E and F on the way up, usually I don't bother.
MM: The Flavor... was actually transposed to Bm by Rob Greenway in Washington, DC and I know of a handful of flute players that play it in that key. To be honest, I really don't care if someone transposes my tunes into other keys, but in the past they've started "Flava" in a sessiun and I didn't recognize it until the end of the second part! That tune - like many - change dramatically when transposed. (I actually prefer Am to Bm for that tune because it sounds closer to the original version, but it is difficult to fit any ornaments in then because they would all lie around that C natural.)
Transposing tunes is a "do as I say, not as I do" subject. In general, one shouldn't really stray from the original key in a sessiun-setting because then no one else can play it with them. However, I would be lying if I said I had never done that (check out Jenny’s Chicken’s in A minor – much sweeter)! Liz Carroll recorded the Musical Priest in Gm/Bb (instead of Bm/D), Solas recorded Sporting Paddy in Gm (instead of Am), and many other players record tunes in different keys, mainly because it’s a new way to play a great tune, which could be the hypothetical premise of a lot of Irish music recordings. The difference is that a recording is a performance and a sessiun is a social gathering. If you’re going to perform, feel free to modulate the music as much as you like. However, if you’re going to play in a sessiun, I’d stick to the true key.
Heh, with that said, go ahead and play my tune in whatever key you like! Glad to hear its being played!
thanks Brendan, I'll just go for the Bm, and give a try at the Am too (and probably Gm). I understand that a performing situation as different then a session, but I haven't heard the tune beeing played in any session arround here yet, so we will just introduce it in Bm, and mention the original Gm-key.
maarten
A fascinating thing I once observed was a classical musician (piano and violin) who was so obsessed with dots and keys that he could not see that the tune "Baa Baa Black Sheep" is still the same tune whether you play it in A or B or C (I believe there are more, but I don't know what they are called) so long as you don't change the mode.
At the other extreme, I knew another pianist who had very slim fingers, and played so that he struck the keys towards the back of the keyboard. He never used the front "all white" bit of the keyboard. As a result of this, he could (and did) play any given tune ONLY by reference to what you might call his "starting position" - he was playing simply on a fully chromatic, evenly spaced set of keys, all a semitone apart. You could move him into a different key simply by pushing his piano stool left or right.
These two lived about two hundred yards apart in geography, but about a billion miles apart in music.
It's worth noting, however, that this identical transposition exists only because we are playing on equally tempered instruments.
If you were playing on a well tempered instrument (say, an organ) you could still transpose, but you would get distinctly different sounds as you shifted keys, because the keys have a distinct coloration.
And if you were playing on a meantone instrument, some keys are just going to sound terrible.
If you change the key to fit an instrument to aviod high notes or to make use of the low notes, thats fair enough.
Tunes are written in a certain key for a reason and unless you are a good enough musician to justify changing it, when the other decent musicians in the session start slagging you off, you are better leaving it in its original key.
Don't change key just because there are too many sharps or flats if your instrument can actually play in that key - do some practise on it - work towards playing it in its original key. Once the session-clowns find out you can't play in Eb, you can guess what key they will pick to play in.
So, are you speaking from personal experience there, Geoff? *smirk*
Dave, Dave W. has an interesting point there -- some musicians really feel that moving Happy Birthday or Twinkle Twinkle to a different key *does* make it a different tune, because it feels different and the overall sound is different. Me, I personally am not that sensitive to all those delicate modulations of tone, but I'm a clod. *snort*
(1) There are lots of aspects of a tune that change when it is transposed. Moving it down can take away some the brightness or edginess and reveal some unnoticed poignancy in the melody. Different keys make different notes in the tune fall on open strings on stringed instruments, affecting the timbre. On the accordion, a different key will put the changes in bellows direction in completely different places in the tune, making the phrasing entirely different. It may require a complete re-thinking of the use of bass notes and chords, as some may be unavailable in the new key. Ornamentation may need to change because of fingering considerations.
(2) The ability to transpose a tune at will in a session is a good thing. It means that your brain knows the tune and your fingers know the instrument, as opposed to just your fingers knowing the tune. Obviously on some instruments, some keys aren't possible and others are hard, but if a good musician knows a tune in one key, they should be able to play it in any reasonable key in which it fits on their instrument.
(3) (2) isn't to say that it's polite to assume that others can and will want to transpose on the fly in a session!
(4) The accepted key for tunes sometimes changes over time. I've heard (don't know how true it is) that the traditional key for Rights of Man was D Minor, though now it's almost always played in E Minor (Paddy Canny's strange and wonderful D Minor/Major arrangement is the only exception I know of). I think there are lots of 19th Century hornpipes, especially by James Hill of Northumberland and James Scott Skinner off Scotland, that have moved out of keys like E flat, B flat, and E, into D and G as they migrated into Ireland.
(5) There are regional variations. I gather that in Clare, many tunes are often played a tone lower than elsewhere because of the prevalence of C/G concertinas.
(6) Once in awhile it's fun to play a tune in more than one key back-to-back. We do this with one tune in our session, though it may be an old-time American tune rather than an Irish one (I can't remember which one it is), as well as with Pinch of Snuff, as mentioned earlier, when the piper shows up. A tune I think it would work well with is Off to California, first in G, then in A. It would also be fun with some of the common polkas, maybe in G, D, and A. But though it's fun, it's kind of a novelty thing that would get old very fast if overdone. Once per session is enough, I think.
refering to geoff's session-clowns: any D-fluters out there that play ITM-tunes in Ebmin? Or for that matter: Gmin?
How do you get arround 'trad' ornamentation with the use those keys?
Dave's story about the pianist with very slim fingers reminds of a story told me by an old friend of mine who is an Associated Board examiner.
He was in Northern Ireland examining piano students for the Asoc. Board grades. He became concerned when he was forced to fail a couple of small children who were taking the beginners grade 1 exam, because they didn't seem to know where the notes were on the piano. He had a word their teacher about this and she went over to the piano in the examination room and looked at it. "Ah," she said, "the lock's in a different place". Asked to explain, she said that she taught her pupils to find middle C by counting up 3 notes from the lock. And of course she meant the lock on the piano in her teaching studio which wasn't the same as the examination piano ...
Trevor
changing key
changing key
Hello everyone out there, I've been visiting this forum for a few months now and though it might be time to contribute ...
Question: where do you stand in a situation where a nice tune is in the wrong key for your instrument? Do you go playing it in a more suitable key or would you just not play the tune and just listen to others playing it?
I was just listening to 'flavor of the month' by Solas, written by Brendan Callahan (great tune b.t.w.) in Gmin, which involves Bflats and Eflats. Now if I'ld want to play the tune on my D-flute, could I alter the original key (say to Amin or Bmin) or should I just take it on the F-flute?
Any suggestions? Brendan?
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
I often play tunes in the "wrong" key simply because I can't remember the original key the tune was written for. This sometimes produces raised eyebrows from my fellow session-goers, but people also tell me that certain tunes sound nicer in the other key. I personally haven't a problem with people playing tunes in different keys (it wouldn't take me to!), and in fact it can sometimes make you look at a tired old tune in a diferent light. Not something you should do if you are new to a particular session but if it allows you to play a hitherto impossible tune than by all means, ga maar door!
Conán
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: changing key
*diFFerent*
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: changing key
I know certain tunes are played in more than one key (e.g. Mason's apron: Amaj for fiddles and Gmaj for flutes?) but actually the question should be: how would you feel if a tune you wrote was beeing played in a different key?
If a Dmaj-reel is played on a Eb-flute, it's played in Ebmaj, wright? No problem there I guess, but see: sometimes a tune was written in a specific key for a porpous: that's the way it's supposed to sound (fiddlers have an advantage there: chromatic and no limits as to the notes they can play). On the flute it's different: restricted to Dmaj, Emin, Gmaj, Amin, Bmin (plus additional modi).
So, do some tunes have a 'wrong' key or just a 'different' key?
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
This all goes back to the wonderful subject of session etiquette!
Of course tunes can be played in all manner of keys- no doubt some more successfully than others. But the fact is- whoever starts the tune decides on what key it is to be played in and as far as I'm concerned if it doesn't suit you or your instrument- that's just too bad. Sit the tune out, listen to how it's played, remember the key it was in and by all means have a go at it when you get home.
Could you imagine a session where a tune is being played by several different people who are all playing in different keys? (arrrrrggggghhhh- I've had worse nightmares
Melodeeee
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by melodeeee
Re: changing key
The fiddle is among the most versatile of instruments when it comes to playing in different keys, but even here preferences surface.
If you play a tune in A or D it usually has significantly more resonance than if you're playing in C, F or Bb. The choice of key can also affect the ease of fingering. For instance, take the phrase dGBG in the key of G. It involves a fair amount of string crossing and moving the 3rd finger across the strings from d to G. No great technical problem, it just needs a bit of work put into it. Now play the same notes in the key of A - eAcA. You now have open strings to use (e and A) and only one finger to go down (for the c). It feels easier and is also more resonant.
It's a good exercise for the more advanced player to take a tune in G that you know very well indeed (and preferably fairly simple if you're doing this exercise for the first time) and play it several times, each time in a different key - A, Bb, B, C, D, F, and even in Eb and Ab if you feel up to it!
Trevor
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: changing key
Melodeeee,
I have no intention what so ever to play any tune in any other key than the one it's beeing played at, (nor would I take an F-flute and play alongside a D-flute with the same fingering, just because the F-flute sounds so nice ..., etiquette, as you say) So sitting out the tune is exactly what I do just now. But ... I also have a weekly teaching-session in which I (well, mostly it's me) teach my fellow-musicians a tune. This question just came to mind because this tune (flavor of ..) came up as a request. I guess no-one would object to it if any of us would go to a session and play the tune in whichever key we like.
But what about 'wrong', 'wright' and different' key's?
fidicen: this is a practice I also use on the flute (fully keyed) to exercise my 'keyability'
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
'... in whichever key we like...' if any of us would start the tune that is ofcourse ...
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
O.K- when teaching, I generally pass on a tune in the key it was originally written (this is usually an easier key in which to learn the tune anyway). If I commonly play the tune/ have heard it played in a different key which I think suits it better- I'll let my students hear this once they have mastered the original key. It is then up to them to decide which key they prefer and if they like the *new* key, to have a go at it.
I don't necessarily believe that there is a "right" or "wrong" key- just keys which suit some (not all) tunes.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by melodeeee
Re: changing key
This one can be a bit contradictory. I agree that in most cases keys like A and D work better on string instruments because of the brighter tone of open strings and possibilities for droning - the Foxhunter reel is one such example played in A, although at most sessions it's normally played in G. However, I'll contradict myself here by saying that the Banks of Lough jig in the key of Am/C sounds infinitely better than the same tune played in Bm/D. Equally the Hole in the Hedge jig (a Martin Hayes & Tulla Céilí Band tune) sounds far better played in C than D. Also many of Paddy Fahy's tunes are in C or F as are some of Paddy O'Brien's (Nenagh) compositions and , to me anyway, this is part of what gives them their distinctiveness. I don't think there's any hard and fast ruling on what is the right or wrong key and that it's just another one of those "horses for courses" matters.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Bannerman
Re: changing key
Some tunes if there pentatonic can be played on the whistle in 4 keys.
Take a GHB Jig like "Paddy's Leather Britches" you can play it starting on E, A, B, or D.
On the Pipes "PLB" can be (and is) played in the A and B minor pentatonic.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: changing key
I find that just by changing the key, a tune can transform into something fairly different. An example most musos knows:
The Star of Munster is regularly played in Am. Try Gm. For me as a fiddler, the dynamics of the tune is altered with the fingering and the lack of open strings.
(Then try to play it with a high third, then as a jig, then.....)
Snorre
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by snorre
Re: changing key
So I guess if you can change keys for the fun of it, there's no harm in changing it for the need of it?
Bannerman, if you say that "jig x" sounds better in the key of C then the (I suppose original) key of D, do you mean "sounds better on the fiddle" or "sounds better in general"?
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
Playing in different keys is good practice and fine for special arrangements/performances etc.
If you're in a session, however, you should try and "toe the line".
Don't play common tunes on the ocarina in E flat minor or whatever just because you can--especially if you do have a "D" whistle with you all the time. It just gets peoples' backs up. Well, mine, anyway.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by John J.
Re: changing key
Q: what do you get when you throw a piano down a mine-shaft?
A: A flat minor
Anyways, I guess I can (partly) agree with most of you.
So I'll just go off and start practicing this month's flavor in Gmin, octaving a few notes and get a work-out on left-thumb and right-pinky and just tell the fellow-musicians with the no-key-flutes that the tune is a no-go?
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
Ga maar door,Conan? Zeker en vast!
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd
Re: changing key
I like hearing what other people discover about familiar tunes by putting them in different keys. Lots of E Clare players do this (Paddy Canny's the avatar) but so do people who just interested in finding new ways of hearing the same tunes. I'd think it was something only to do with advance warning in a session, but I'm happy to sit and hear someone else play the tune in a key unfamiliar to me--I'll often hear things I wouldn't have otherwise.
chris smith
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: changing key
In an equally tempered instrument (that is to say, almost anything out there these days), the differences should largely be ease of playing (or lack thereof).
--Dave
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Dave Weinstein
Re: changing key
Most tunes do have a "right key". And it would be daft not to learn them in that key. However, the "wrong keys" can be a hoot. Or try changing key. I like to play Out on the Ocean in A (common enough) then G (common enough) then F (easy on the fiddle) and finish in Emaj. The decending keys sound great and finishing in E sounds very bright, almost like you've been ascending.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by llig leahcim
Re: changing key
I take your point MM that while the tunes sound better in certain keys on some instruments (say C on the fiddle) it would not be the case on the D Tin Whistle where the lower notes became inaccessible. In a session situation (or any ensemble mode) this would not, however, be noticeable.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Bannerman
Re: changing key
I usually learn the tune in whatever key the local players have it in so that I can join in rather than playing it solo. If no one else knows the tune I learn it in the key from my source, or change the key to suit my instrument.
There's a good handful of tunes that come up that are either in G or A, Gdor or Edor, Dmaj or Cmaj. If you're an idiot savant or something you can learn them in all the different keys, but if you're just an average player like me -- you sit and enjoy listening to others play it in a different key from the one you know it in.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: changing key
>Could you imagine a session where a tune is being played by several different people who are all playing in different keys?
I am regularly (although inadvertently) the cause of such sessions.
If you play a tune with lots of flats (i.e. 2 or more) in a key with a sharp or two or three, I think more people will be happy than upset. Just B natural.
---Michael B.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by MichaelBolton
Re: changing key
If the tune fits, play it...
I learned a reel (Martin Rochford's) in C, heard it at a session in D. It kinda puzzled me for a bit, but it was fun to hear the tune anyway, and it's good to have your expectations jarred every once in a while. It's good to keep your mind agile, if not just your fingers...
I picked up The Pinch of Snuff at Willie Week in '96, they were playing it ala Sean Maguire, starting in D, up to G, up to A, up to D. Great fun. I do this now with the Mason's Apron as a practice/warmup tune (not in sessions tho) and play it in C, D, G, and A. Sometimes I try E and F on the way up, usually I don't bother.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by HighlandSun
Re: changing key
MM: The Flavor... was actually transposed to Bm by Rob Greenway in Washington, DC and I know of a handful of flute players that play it in that key. To be honest, I really don't care if someone transposes my tunes into other keys, but in the past they've started "Flava" in a sessiun and I didn't recognize it until the end of the second part! That tune - like many - change dramatically when transposed. (I actually prefer Am to Bm for that tune because it sounds closer to the original version, but it is difficult to fit any ornaments in then because they would all lie around that C natural.)
Transposing tunes is a "do as I say, not as I do" subject. In general, one shouldn't really stray from the original key in a sessiun-setting because then no one else can play it with them. However, I would be lying if I said I had never done that (check out Jenny’s Chicken’s in A minor – much sweeter)! Liz Carroll recorded the Musical Priest in Gm/Bb (instead of Bm/D), Solas recorded Sporting Paddy in Gm (instead of Am), and many other players record tunes in different keys, mainly because it’s a new way to play a great tune, which could be the hypothetical premise of a lot of Irish music recordings. The difference is that a recording is a performance and a sessiun is a social gathering. If you’re going to perform, feel free to modulate the music as much as you like. However, if you’re going to play in a sessiun, I’d stick to the true key.
Heh, with that said, go ahead and play my tune in whatever key you like! Glad to hear its being played!
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by fiddleguru
Re: changing key
thanks Brendan, I'll just go for the Bm, and give a try at the Am too (and probably Gm). I understand that a performing situation as different then a session, but I haven't heard the tune beeing played in any session arround here yet, so we will just introduce it in Bm, and mention the original Gm-key.
maarten
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
A fascinating thing I once observed was a classical musician (piano and violin) who was so obsessed with dots and keys that he could not see that the tune "Baa Baa Black Sheep" is still the same tune whether you play it in A or B or C (I believe there are more, but I don't know what they are called) so long as you don't change the mode.
At the other extreme, I knew another pianist who had very slim fingers, and played so that he struck the keys towards the back of the keyboard. He never used the front "all white" bit of the keyboard. As a result of this, he could (and did) play any given tune ONLY by reference to what you might call his "starting position" - he was playing simply on a fully chromatic, evenly spaced set of keys, all a semitone apart. You could move him into a different key simply by pushing his piano stool left or right.
These two lived about two hundred yards apart in geography, but about a billion miles apart in music.
Dave
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: changing key
It's worth noting, however, that this identical transposition exists only because we are playing on equally tempered instruments.
If you were playing on a well tempered instrument (say, an organ) you could still transpose, but you would get distinctly different sounds as you shifted keys, because the keys have a distinct coloration.
And if you were playing on a meantone instrument, some keys are just going to sound terrible.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Dave Weinstein
Re: changing key
If you change the key to fit an instrument to aviod high notes or to make use of the low notes, thats fair enough.
Tunes are written in a certain key for a reason and unless you are a good enough musician to justify changing it, when the other decent musicians in the session start slagging you off, you are better leaving it in its original key.
Don't change key just because there are too many sharps or flats if your instrument can actually play in that key - do some practise on it - work towards playing it in its original key. Once the session-clowns find out you can't play in Eb, you can guess what key they will pick to play in.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: changing key
So, are you speaking from personal experience there, Geoff? *smirk*
Dave, Dave W. has an interesting point there -- some musicians really feel that moving Happy Birthday or Twinkle Twinkle to a different key *does* make it a different tune, because it feels different and the overall sound is different. Me, I personally am not that sensitive to all those delicate modulations of tone, but I'm a clod. *snort*
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: changing key
A few random thoughts concerning this topic:
(1) There are lots of aspects of a tune that change when it is transposed. Moving it down can take away some the brightness or edginess and reveal some unnoticed poignancy in the melody. Different keys make different notes in the tune fall on open strings on stringed instruments, affecting the timbre. On the accordion, a different key will put the changes in bellows direction in completely different places in the tune, making the phrasing entirely different. It may require a complete re-thinking of the use of bass notes and chords, as some may be unavailable in the new key. Ornamentation may need to change because of fingering considerations.
(2) The ability to transpose a tune at will in a session is a good thing. It means that your brain knows the tune and your fingers know the instrument, as opposed to just your fingers knowing the tune. Obviously on some instruments, some keys aren't possible and others are hard, but if a good musician knows a tune in one key, they should be able to play it in any reasonable key in which it fits on their instrument.
(3) (2) isn't to say that it's polite to assume that others can and will want to transpose on the fly in a session!
(4) The accepted key for tunes sometimes changes over time. I've heard (don't know how true it is) that the traditional key for Rights of Man was D Minor, though now it's almost always played in E Minor (Paddy Canny's strange and wonderful D Minor/Major arrangement is the only exception I know of). I think there are lots of 19th Century hornpipes, especially by James Hill of Northumberland and James Scott Skinner off Scotland, that have moved out of keys like E flat, B flat, and E, into D and G as they migrated into Ireland.
(5) There are regional variations. I gather that in Clare, many tunes are often played a tone lower than elsewhere because of the prevalence of C/G concertinas.
(6) Once in awhile it's fun to play a tune in more than one key back-to-back. We do this with one tune in our session, though it may be an old-time American tune rather than an Irish one (I can't remember which one it is), as well as with Pinch of Snuff, as mentioned earlier, when the piper shows up. A tune I think it would work well with is Off to California, first in G, then in A. It would also be fun with some of the common polkas, maybe in G, D, and A. But though it's fun, it's kind of a novelty thing that would get old very fast if overdone. Once per session is enough, I think.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: changing key
refering to geoff's session-clowns: any D-fluters out there that play ITM-tunes in Ebmin? Or for that matter: Gmin?
How do you get arround 'trad' ornamentation with the use those keys?
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by MM
Re: changing key
Dave's story about the pianist with very slim fingers reminds of a story told me by an old friend of mine who is an Associated Board examiner.
He was in Northern Ireland examining piano students for the Asoc. Board grades. He became concerned when he was forced to fail a couple of small children who were taking the beginners grade 1 exam, because they didn't seem to know where the notes were on the piano. He had a word their teacher about this and she went over to the piano in the examination room and looked at it. "Ah," she said, "the lock's in a different place". Asked to explain, she said that she taught her pupils to find middle C by counting up 3 notes from the lock. And of course she meant the lock on the piano in her teaching studio which wasn't the same as the examination piano ...
Trevor
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: changing key
Trevor
That's presumably "concert lock" !
Dave
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by showaddydadito