Hi,
I´m breaking in a new flute (first trad flute although I´m playing the classical flute for many years) and I find that the middle C-natural needs to be fingered with (head) OXOXXX to be in tune, if I finger the more normal OXXOOO then it is flat.
Do you think this is a problem in the flute, or is it normal enough ?
By the way, I can get all other notes in tune by altering my embouchure slightly. That is, I don´t think it´s the player causing it to be flat.
There are typically a variety of fingerings for the note you reference on both simple system flutes and whistles. The one you indicate in your post is certainly not uncommon, so should not be viewed as a design defect IMHO. Please see the fingering chart for keyless flutes on this site: http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/fingering-charts.html and note that there are two alternatives indicated for C nat.
You didn't mention what particular flute you have (manufacturer, style...), or if it has keys. Many antique keyed flutes are not really designed to be cross-fingered for C nat, though cross fingering is sometimes an acceptable alternative for quick passages or ornaments. Comprehensive fingering charts for keyed simple system flutes can be found in several locations on the web including here: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/fingering.html
I am concerned by your statement of having to adjust your embouchure for other notes, however slightly. If it were just the Cnat, I would say you need to live with it if you like the flute, but if other notes require adjustment, you either need to look at the positioning of the head cork (try pushing it in a little) or accept that the flute is not that good in terms of intonation.
Please note that oxo xxx makes the note flatter than oxx ooo. The OP complained of oxx ooo making Cnat flat. Why would oxo xxx be an improvement? If the note needs to be sharper, wouldn't oxo ooo be a better alternative?
Interestingly, Ailin, on every single flute I've ever tried, OXO XXX makes the Cnat in tune, and sharper than and less veiled than OXX OOO. I have about a dozen flutes here now. Shall I try them?
Yep, works on that one.
Oh, and that one ...
... and that one ...
hmmm ... what about this one? Yep, works on that one too ...
... and this one ...
The charts on Rick Wilson's site tend to agree that OXO XXX works better. They're pretty comprehensive.
I stand corrected. Upon further trial, I found that oxo ooo is indeed sharper than oxx ooo, but as you say, EB, oxo xxx is more in tune and also has a more open sound. Seems odd, given more holes are covered, but I realize now that the uncovered G hole mitigates that.
Wow, I´m impressed by the response and heartened that my improvised fingering actually is a normal fingering.
For the poster who asked....The flute in question is a brand new DeKeyser and the other notes are essentially in tune, nothing to worry about I think but I´ll check again now that I´ve stopped worrying about the C-natural issue.
It has a lovely sound, not to mention a thing of beauty to look at.
Oddly, both the Irish flutes which served me over a 30 year period, a c1830 boxwood Rudall & Rose, and a c1860 cocus Koehler (a London-made Pratten model flute) liked OXXOOO best, OXOXXX being too sharp. High C was a different matter, requiring OXOXXX. So I used both fingerings, one for middle C and one for high C.
Flute Fingering question
Flute Fingering question
Hi,
I´m breaking in a new flute (first trad flute although I´m playing the classical flute for many years) and I find that the middle C-natural needs to be fingered with (head) OXOXXX to be in tune, if I finger the more normal OXXOOO then it is flat.
Do you think this is a problem in the flute, or is it normal enough ?
By the way, I can get all other notes in tune by altering my embouchure slightly. That is, I don´t think it´s the player causing it to be flat.
Acol.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by acolmanj
Re: Flute Fingering question
There are typically a variety of fingerings for the note you reference on both simple system flutes and whistles. The one you indicate in your post is certainly not uncommon, so should not be viewed as a design defect IMHO. Please see the fingering chart for keyless flutes on this site: http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/fingering-charts.html and note that there are two alternatives indicated for C nat.
You didn't mention what particular flute you have (manufacturer, style...), or if it has keys. Many antique keyed flutes are not really designed to be cross-fingered for C nat, though cross fingering is sometimes an acceptable alternative for quick passages or ornaments. Comprehensive fingering charts for keyed simple system flutes can be found in several locations on the web including here: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/fingering.html
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Latticino
Re: Flute Fingering question
It is rare that OXXOOO is going to be perfectly in tune on any flute it usually takes some adjustment.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Why Bother?
Re: Flute Fingering question
I am concerned by your statement of having to adjust your embouchure for other notes, however slightly. If it were just the Cnat, I would say you need to live with it if you like the flute, but if other notes require adjustment, you either need to look at the positioning of the head cork (try pushing it in a little) or accept that the flute is not that good in terms of intonation.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Ailin
Re: Flute Fingering question
oxoxxx is what my German flute likes for C (unless I use the key). Since it's only one finger away from the D above it's got a lot going for it.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Jack Campin
Re: Flute Fingering question
Yeah, a head cork that's out of place can throw everything off, so have someone check that for you.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by AlBrown
Re: Flute Fingering question
To me, OXO XXX is normal flute fingering for Cnat. It's not what I use on whistles, where I just use the OXX OOO fingering.
I don't think there's anything wrong with your flute. It's normal.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by ethical blend
Re: Flute Fingering question
yes, oxo xxx is normally a better c natural on most flutes.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by Crackpot
Re: Flute Fingering question
Please note that oxo xxx makes the note flatter than oxx ooo. The OP complained of oxx ooo making Cnat flat. Why would oxo xxx be an improvement? If the note needs to be sharper, wouldn't oxo ooo be a better alternative?
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by Ailin
Re: Flute Fingering question
Interestingly, Ailin, on every single flute I've ever tried, OXO XXX makes the Cnat in tune, and sharper than and less veiled than OXX OOO. I have about a dozen flutes here now. Shall I try them?
Yep, works on that one.
Oh, and that one ...
... and that one ...
hmmm ... what about this one? Yep, works on that one too ...
... and this one ...
The charts on Rick Wilson's site tend to agree that OXO XXX works better. They're pretty comprehensive.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by ethical blend
Re: Flute Fingering question
I stand corrected. Upon further trial, I found that oxo ooo is indeed sharper than oxx ooo, but as you say, EB, oxo xxx is more in tune and also has a more open sound. Seems odd, given more holes are covered, but I realize now that the uncovered G hole mitigates that.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by Ailin
Re: Flute Fingering question
Yes. Sorry to have been snippy about it.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by ethical blend
Re: Flute Fingering question
Wow, I´m impressed by the response and heartened that my improvised fingering actually is a normal fingering.
For the poster who asked....The flute in question is a brand new DeKeyser and the other notes are essentially in tune, nothing to worry about I think but I´ll check again now that I´ve stopped worrying about the C-natural issue.
It has a lovely sound, not to mention a thing of beauty to look at.
# Posted on January 30th 2012 by acolmanj
Re: Flute Fingering question
My flute likes OXX XOO!
# Posted on January 31st 2012 by Bredna
Re: Flute Fingering question
Thanks for that acolmanj, my flute likes OXOXXX for Cnat. That's why I keep coming back here. I keep learning new stuff all the time.
# Posted on February 4th 2012 by harry
Re: Flute Fingering question
Oddly, both the Irish flutes which served me over a 30 year period, a c1830 boxwood Rudall & Rose, and a c1860 cocus Koehler (a London-made Pratten model flute) liked OXXOOO best, OXOXXX being too sharp. High C was a different matter, requiring OXOXXX. So I used both fingerings, one for middle C and one for high C.
# Posted on February 4th 2012 by Richard D Cook
Re: Flute Fingering question
Strange to refer to them as "Irish" flutes, Richard. ???
# Posted on February 4th 2012 by ethical blend
Re: Flute Fingering question
Perhaps he plays Irish tunes on those flutes.
# Posted on February 4th 2012 by Tonya
Re: Flute Fingering question
Well, yes, but the flutes are English.
# Posted on February 5th 2012 by ethical blend