What functions do you think proper, pub (or some other public space) sessions have? We all have our own reasons for playing music. And most of us like to play with other people. But why do we choose to go out and do it in public, often without pay, and often with many, many headaches?
We could only have house sessions. We could only play in community centers or church halls. Instead, we choose to go someplace where anybody could come in and wreck our fun, where we can have trouble with the pub owners and where punters can get unruly.
Why do we do it? I'm not talking about the historical reasons for it, just why we-you-me-whatever do it week in, week out.
I for one, like having something to go out and do. And, if it's a good sesh, you can't beat the combination of alcohol, tunes and good people. I also think that playing in public ups my game. And other people drinking alcohol makes it easier to tolerate my playing I also think that having it in a pub helps it to continue as "folk" music. It's a community thing. You're taking the music you love and bringing a whole bunch of people in to it - people who hopefully are there to have a good time anyway.
This is America. Sessions should celebrate capitalism, not commie community brainwashing. I say - make people pay for the music, and let's stop all the chitchat feelgood socialist propaganda that apparently has taken hold in North Carolina. Here in Texas we do things the American way.
Speaking of which, Jeremy, how's the alcohol abstinence going? Anyway, I like going out to sessions as well, for the same reasons. I don't always get out to the other sessions, unfortunately, I'd love to be able to get out more often. I can't get away without going to mine, because, well, I'm supposed to be running the thing.
But I like throwing a party with a session, too, at home, although it does mean that I don't get to play as much, rushing around making sure everyone's got someone to talk to and that the plates and cups are all filled.
I've heard tell of sessions where everyone sits in a circle, and the session leader politely nods at each person in turn to start a new set. Like occupational therapy. I mean, that would be a great activity in rehab, but where's the craic? (see, in rehab they get cross when there's good crack about)
What was the topic? Why do they exist? I suppose you could deconstruct this to some absurd point... I keep trying to write something serious, but I just can't. It's too mushy.
North Texas Irish Festival is coming up. During the day: lots of music, Irish fajitas, and beer. At night, rubbing elbows with the big boys, sessions strewn all over a single hotel, and beer. Good times. Jeremy: fly yer butt down here.
Tutorial On American Slang
-------------------------------------------------
Pinko: communist. Slang derived from 'Red', a color associated with Leninist USSR
Horns: Pointy things atop a steer's head.
Army: Where many people will yell derisive comments about your home state in your face, such as "2 things come from , steers and *ueers- which one are you??"
Humor: An application of communication where jokes, irony, exaggeration and lying are used to foster laughs and good will
I'm sensing a topic that has failed. That's ok. I'm fine with that. *sniffle*. I started a topic... the public didn't want it... it worked... rather like capitalism.
LOL -- you two. Jeremy, Turlach and I were going to have a bet as to how long you could go without alcohol, but we gave up, because both of us wanted "nano-second". You're *so* predictable, dude. Did I mention that he sent me an incriminating pic of you with drink in hand?
Hmmm. This, despite all appearances, is exactly why sessions exist, because otherwise Glenn and Jeremy have nowhere to exhibit themselves but the feckin' Net.
Those sessions tend to be in much quieter or even silent venues. The craic in those sessions exists because the order you get is superb and everyone is there purely for excellent music and not just tunes, drinks and laughs. No interuptions, and when someone else joins in they tend not to unless what they play really complements your own playing. People tend not to force their own style onto the tune already being played. There thus tends to either be impromptu solos, duets, trios, but the whole shabang don't tend to join in just cos they know the tune.
Its not for everyone and certainly not all the time, but they can certainly be great craic....
In the most rural of rural sessions I've been to in Ireland, Scotland and Outer Hebrides, sessions tend to be more like this than the more modern conception of a session.
Well, there's two types of those circle sessions, I think -- the learning kind and the sharing kind. In the States we tend to get more of the first than the second, if you get them at all. Although I've been to Texas fiddling jams where everybody stands up one at a time and plays with two-four guitars backing them up for a few tunes, and they take turns.
I think those of us that prefer playing at the pub to, say, someone's house... we love the pub and we love going out (drink, chat, meeting new people, snogging behind the kitchen) - and we love playing music. So it's the best of both worlds.
You can spot pinkos because they like feeling intellectually superior and will provide corrections to what you've already said even when that clarification is unnecessary!
those sessions also seem to occur in peoples kitchens, with overly generous teas on the table, kids under the table and are often referred to, at least in rural scotland and the islands, as ceilidhs.
I vote that we stop using the deragatory terms for socialist thought in this thread because although I introduced them (in what I think is obviously a parody) someone might get ticked off and some people might start taking things seriously.
Ah, but you're making the circles sound all dory and hunky by using moderate language and rational arguments, whereas the gal who described how awful they are to me last night convinced me of the veracity of her observations via cunning use of skirt-twirling and eyelash-batting. Who to believe?
LOL -- Jamie, you know, I was just thinking of people I know in Ireland sitting at home and making a ceili just like that. Some of the best fun I ever had in Ireland...
She's probably talking about the learning kind, Q. To be honest, I find them rather boring, as they tend to be very, um, non-spontaneous...so I'd tend to agree with your friend regardless of how much skirt and eyelash was employed or not employed... ;)
Several years ago, Mick Moloney wrote an article about sessions, their rules and ettiquette for the program book of our sadly-now-defunct local Irish festival. I wish I had it at hand at the moment so I wouldn't have to paraphrase, but basically he said (spot on IMHO) that there are two kinds of sessions. First would be the one-off or ad hoc sessions that occur when musicians meet up at festivals, Willie Week, etc, and decide to sit down and have a few tunes. As one-off events, those sessions each have their own particular dynamic of the moment. They are what they are. The other kind of session, though, is much more interesting from a sociological perspective. That would be the regular weekly or monthly sessions that occur in a particular place (usually a pub) over an extended period of time, with the same base group of people there from one session to the next. Mick had a lot to say about the seemingly arcane rules and behavior patterns that are associated with those kind of sessions, and again IMHO he had is exactly right. But I'll not try to paraphrase what he said, since I'd probably not do it justice. Instead I'll venture into my own thoughts now.
Why do sessions exist? That's easy, because people like to play music with others of their same musical bent rather than sitting at home alone playing by (or sould I say with?) themselves. Because they like doing this, they also will tend toward doing it on a repeated, regular basis. Basically, a shared interest is turned into a social activity, not unlike the weekly bowling league, card game, tennis match, etc.
So why are sessions in pubs rather than homes? I'd say several things come into play here. Rather than someone having to volunteer their house for a particular session (or every session), get approval from the spouse/housemates, clean up (am I the only person who throws tune parties as an excuse to finally get around to cleaning my house?), provide the food/drink and other amenities, put up with the cigarette smoke, etc, it's much easier to go to a public house (i.e. a pub) where all of that is provided already. The move to a public place does bring with it the disadvantage of having others around to observe and interact with the session (and produce noise that often makes it hard to hear yourself play), but there's also the hidden advantage of opening up the closed circle of the session to passers-through or newcomers to the area who are also of like musical mind with the session regulars. It's hard to do that in a house session, where an invitation of some form is usually needed to get in the door, so it's easy for house sessions to get stale and predictable.
Basically what I'm saying is that a session is nothing but a group of friends getting together to pursue in public an activity that they have in common. If more session newbies realized that simple fact, there would be a lot less of the awkward session situations that we lament so much. I mean, if your thing was playing poker and you walked into a bar and saw a group of people playing around the table there, would you just pull up a chair, plop yourself down and expect them to deal you in? No, you'd probably introduce yourself first as a fellow poker player and wait for them to invite you in. And if you did get invited in, you wouldn't start playing by your own rules without finding out the rules of the table first, would you? Of course not! But newbies do that kind of thing all the time at sessions and think nothing of it.
Similarly, if you walked into a pub and discovered a group of friends sitting around a table having a chat about something, you wouldn't just barge right into their conversation, would you, even if you were an expert in the topic? But again, people do exactly that at the musical conversation which is a session, and they do it all the time.
You know what it is that makes the session different and unique, then, compared to all these other examples? We put up with it, often with a smiling face and seemingly welcome front, and then talk about the perpetrators after they've left. That's what the Irish session is all about...
Spot on, John Kerr...well, mostly. I like new faces turning up - but I suppose, on reflection, as long as they play by the rules, as you say. I try not to be too two faced, though.
It helps if you play in a nice pub though. The two I play in regularly these days are decent boozers, as are the others in London where I make infrequent visits. But I have played in some real dodgy dives - I don't know if I'd be as keen to do so nowadays. But, as has been said before, it's the people that make it - or break it.
I have to say that I do love a nice house party / session. Last winter I used to have small gatherings at least once a month. But it is a lot of work. Clean the house, grocery shop, make my guinness beef stew, prepare snacks and make sure there is plenty of homemade or some local beer on tap downstairs (we have a rec room with an Irish pub theme, yes beer on tap!). Then there's the clean up afterwards. But it's a labor of love and totally worth it because you get to choose and invite who you want!
This weekend I'm looking forward to this Ice Skating / Music party in New Hampshire, not too far away....although this year, I'll avoid the skating, spare myself the bruises and just come down for the great company and tunes : ) For sure it will be a brilliant night of music and craic and food and drink!
I love a good pub session, but really look forward to house parties/sessions....plus it's nicer to pass out in someone's house rather than a bench in the pub or underneath a table ; )
Joyce that sounds like a brilliant house session you run, we have a small "den" in our flat in edinburgh which is used about twice a week when we come home from nights out and clubbing etc, the usual student stuff, and at 3 o clock (in the morning) we start the music: whistles, guitars, me on fiddle, bongos etc etc, theres no beer on tap but the off liscence across the road is close enough
its great
I take it you mean divey pubs. Yeah they can be fun I s'ppose. But I reckon I'd *rather* play in a good, friendly-staffed, well run, Irish pub (not Irish theme pub) serving good Guinness/real ales.
The last Irish theme pub I was in was at the end of last summer, nothing to do with the music, I was having a quick couple of pints with a colleague, Friday evening kinda job.
Here, a fight breaks out among a group of really pissed up building site guys sitting outside. Well, not so much a fight as a massacre. This little stocky psycho guy starts shouting and swearing right into the face of a big tall skinny glaickit guy, who's even more drunk. Next thing, the little guy pulls him by the hair, smashes his head on the concrete, then stamps on the head. In full view of the whole pub. Then walks off and goes to get his train, as do the rest of the group, leaving the long one lying bleeding. Maybe 20 years ago I might have been foolish enough to try and intervene. I've got a family to support now though. Myself and my work mate (I suppose colleague is a tad formal, but that's what he is really) did go out as soon as they'd gone and near enough scrape the guy up and offer to take him over to King's College Hospital, but he was having none of it so much so he was getting into a pre-aggressive mood, so, sod it, we just left him.
On the basis of mick's minimalist post, I was guessing as well, Zina. And at the same time managed to say, by documenting an example, why I prefer good pubs.
Reg Hall says that pub sessions were never tradtional in Ireland,they started in London in the Fifties when Irish muscians who had come to England to work wanted to play together,and because they were staying in boarding houses and the like,the only places they could play were the Irish pubs.
Birds gotta fly,
Get high in the sky
We all wanna play
but don't ask me why
I think the location is subordinate to the music,
but as long as there exist friendly pubs where they
welcome music that would be a good place to start....
Wow! Do you know Reg, then, Jocklet? Is he still writing up the dreaded pee aitch dee?
Zina - I went through a period for (mercifully)a few years where I led much the same lifestyle that many of those boys did till they dropped. I managed to get out. Up at six. Seven, half seven or eight o' clock start on the buildings. Get shouted at and told what to do by some eejit foreman, work in filth, graft till the arms and legs ache, till 5,6,7pm. go home, shower, eat, go to pub, drink, play tunes, go home to bed, up at six...
What do you think might have been the fun part of the day?
Ah yes, the problem with throwing a house party is that your time gets eaten up taking care of all the guests, and you don't get to do much playing / socializing yourself. At my last party I had a wonderful solution - a friend's girlfriend was a caterer, and she catered the thing just for the cost of the raw materials. She ran the kitchen, kept the table stocked with drinks and munchies, and all I had to do was enjoy the company...
Ooo, good idea, H! Maybe I'll try that next time we have a big party. Now, who can I draft?
We had a party at Christmas and we had over 50 people crammed into the place -- I think I played maybe 10 tunes the entire night, if that, because I was too busy making sure everyone was comfy and full (and cooking tatties and neeps to go with the haggis). (Why is it that if you have 50 people at a party, almost everybody tries to play Telephone Booth in the kitchen? At one point, I think almost everybody was in the damn breakfast nook, which barely holds four people normally.)
Yes, yes. I totally understand why people who live in areas where there are traditionally sessions - and sessions in pubs - would continue to do just that. I guess I was curious to hear why people who don't live in London, or Dublin, or Chicago or whatever choose to play their music in loud, smoky, sometimes pain-in-the-a$$ pubs (God, I love 'em). I know very well why I like it and I know how sessions evolved in that direction. But we have a lot of people on this board from far flung places and they usually talk about the session at their pub. I'm not saying sessions shouldn't be in pubs. I like pubs, usually a little too much (BTW, Zina, I'll see Turlach on Sunday and I'll hide the cameras). I'm just doing a little sociological research. Do we do it because... well that's just what you do... without a lot of thought? Or do the reasons that sessions moved into pubs still apply? Even in Montana? Walawala, anyone?
Z - it's the ol' kitchen gravity phenomenon! For some reason there's always something warm and inviting about a kitchen... It happens at nearly every house party I've been to. I think some of it is because people spend a fair amount of time going to the kitchen for food, and they then bump into someone else there, get into conversation, and stay there, never returning from whence they came.....
I think you use pubs because there aren't a lot of other social gathering places to choose from, and you need to keep things public so that people can hear about 'em and find them.
The session I run at the Celtic Arts Center is not in a pub, but there's a bar in the back room. There's a monthly session in Burbank that's held at the Moose Lodge, which also has a bar in an adjoining room. It seems that without alcohol available a lot of people wouldn't bother to show up. Since pubs/clubs are the main music/dance/drink scene in most places, that's what most people will think of first...
Jer, say hi to Turlach for me and tell him he'd better well have sent me that cd or I'll have to hunt him down and kill him. Oh, and be sure to tell him he's not allowed to slag anybody anymore AT ALL because this is America, home of the free and the wussy, and he's not allowed to be an ***hole. Be sure to tell me what his answer is, that'll be the best part.
Yeah, I'd agree with the above -- bar and pub sessions are great because nobody has to be responsible for cleaning up afterward, nobody has to bring the beer, and nobody has to be quiet cause the kids are sleeping, etc.
I love house sessions but you're right all the preparation and cleaning up and finding bodies under the beds make for hard work. And I find it takes people a longer time to relax and begin to play than in a pub. Probably the atmosphere in the pub is there to begin with and after a drink its easy to chill out. When I started playing first we used to have a practice session in the cellar of the Ferryman Pub in Dublin once a week. It was a damp, dark, smelly place with a gas fire around which we would all huddle and play our really bad music. We referred to ourselves as the cellar rats but did eventually emerge into the daylight to play in Hughes Pub on a Monday night - mind you we were the one group that never got a free drink (were we really so bad Mick). Nowadays of course we can play anywhere (well almost) but I think of those days with nostalgia sometimes
d
I only came across Reg Hall once,when he was over here in Belgium playing for the Bampton Morris Men.We a good chat and a great session,fuelled by Trappist beer.It was a pleasure to meet and play with a man who was a leading figure in the folk scene in the Fifties and Sixties.I think that he's still working on his P.H.D.
I'm new to Irish music--just learning the tin whistle now. So there's a lot I don't know. Allow me to ask one or two really dumb questions:
Is a session basically like a jam? You and some friends get together and play a bunch of tunes you all know together? JohnKerr above mentioned something about newbies coming up and joining in--are you supposed to stay out of a session unless you know the people there? What about the sessions posted here on this website--are those open or closed sessions?
Forgive the neophitey questions. I'm not anywhere good enough to play in front of people yet anyway, and don't think many people hold sessions in my town (Bloomington, Indiana). I could be wrong about that...
Sessions exist, well in Ireland ne way, for long suffering musicans to meet up discuss the days hardship over a few tunes and if there lucky enough a few good pints. Sessions exist to promote irish trad music and for like minded people 2 b able 2 sit down together and hav the craic, doing something their passionate about!
If sessions did not exist, it would be necessary to invent them.
let's remember that until really very recently your average home/apartment had horrid heating, very cramped space and limited cooking facilities; most went out because it was better than home, better water, better heat, better food, better washroom facilities! The pub is, after all the "Public House", ie a shared space let out by an entrepreneur ( ;) ) to provide something others didn't have.
And then, later and maybe still (I'm out of circulation a long time understand) there were the propriety rules, landladies not allowing loud friends or alcohol, not being able to invite a young lady to your home for "a jam" but no problem to meet her with some friends in public, at the public house --- This is, in fact, how May and I spent our first dates: She invited me to play backup for her gig but we couldn't practice in her parent's apartment and it didn't seem proper to invite her out to my rural farmhouse ;) ... so we crashed a local artists' cafe and asked if they minded if we "rehearsed".
Anyway, back to sessions. We no longer need the public house for the heat or the plumbing, Lord knows most these days have neither, and we thumb our noses (or some other digit) at nagging landlords, and thus there was that brief flirtation with cocooning with a $2000 stereo entertaining "private affairs" and all that gentry stuff.
But that's lacking, it's not "music" its the shadows of music, a snapshot of a vista that you can't step into.
Give me a fair-priced pub with the most novice players over the passive consumption of any name-brand trained seal act on CD. Anyday. Even with all the mistakes, with all the two chord changes and missed G changes, it's real, it breathes, it learns and it grows and that's why I love the sessions ...
"I'm not anywhere good enough to play in front of people yet anyway, and don't think many people hold sessions in my town (Bloomington, Indiana)"
Sessions and players exist (massively, at an international level) in your current location. Check out Grey Larsen, Bridget Murphy, Jamie Gans, Sam Bartlett, and the Runcible Spoon. All Bloomington institutions.
Grey Larsen lives in BLOOMINGTON?? And now that I've checked the phone book, I see that there IS a Grey Larsen in B'town--is this THE Grey Larsen, the flute-playing guy of "The Orange Tree" and other albums? I can't believe that! Wow...
My mind has just been blown... Thanks for the information, Chris.
Why do sessions exist?
Why do sessions exist?
What functions do you think proper, pub (or some other public space) sessions have? We all have our own reasons for playing music. And most of us like to play with other people. But why do we choose to go out and do it in public, often without pay, and often with many, many headaches?
I also think that having it in a pub helps it to continue as "folk" music. It's a community thing. You're taking the music you love and bringing a whole bunch of people in to it - people who hopefully are there to have a good time anyway.
We could only have house sessions. We could only play in community centers or church halls. Instead, we choose to go someplace where anybody could come in and wreck our fun, where we can have trouble with the pub owners and where punters can get unruly.
Why do we do it? I'm not talking about the historical reasons for it, just why we-you-me-whatever do it week in, week out.
I for one, like having something to go out and do. And, if it's a good sesh, you can't beat the combination of alcohol, tunes and good people. I also think that playing in public ups my game. And other people drinking alcohol makes it easier to tolerate my playing
So, whaddya' think?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by jerball
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Community? Bunch of people? Go back to Russia, you pinko.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
The revolution will begin in Asheville.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by jerball
Re: Why do sessions exist?
what glenn?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by aye
Re: Why do sessions exist?
For Mike:
Jeremy and I are just kidding around.
For everyone else:
This is America. Sessions should celebrate capitalism, not commie community brainwashing. I say - make people pay for the music, and let's stop all the chitchat feelgood socialist propaganda that apparently has taken hold in North Carolina. Here in Texas we do things the American way.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Speaking of which, Jeremy, how's the alcohol abstinence going? Anyway, I like going out to sessions as well, for the same reasons. I don't always get out to the other sessions, unfortunately, I'd love to be able to get out more often. I can't get away without going to mine, because, well, I'm supposed to be running the thing.
But I like throwing a party with a session, too, at home, although it does mean that I don't get to play as much, rushing around making sure everyone's got someone to talk to and that the plates and cups are all filled.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Only two things come from Texas, boy. Do you have horns?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by jerball
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Hmm. What's the other one, Jeremy?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
It's been so long since I've been in Texas that I can't remember what they call them. Glenn?
Oh, right. *Not-supposed-to-be-drinking*. I'll make a note. I forgot about that. Thanks.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by jerball
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I've heard tell of sessions where everyone sits in a circle, and the session leader politely nods at each person in turn to start a new set. Like occupational therapy. I mean, that would be a great activity in rehab, but where's the craic? (see, in rehab they get cross when there's good crack about)
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Q
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Indeed I do have horns.
What was the topic? Why do they exist? I suppose you could deconstruct this to some absurd point... I keep trying to write something serious, but I just can't. It's too mushy.
North Texas Irish Festival is coming up. During the day: lots of music, Irish fajitas, and beer. At night, rubbing elbows with the big boys, sessions strewn all over a single hotel, and beer. Good times. Jeremy: fly yer butt down here.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I'm a socialist. Studying sociology its hard not to be. Capitalism sucks, unless its selling my CDs.
Whats a Pinko?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by aye
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Tutorial On American Slang
-------------------------------------------------
Pinko: communist. Slang derived from 'Red', a color associated with Leninist USSR
Horns: Pointy things atop a steer's head.
Army: Where many people will yell derisive comments about your home state in your face, such as "2 things come from , steers and *ueers- which one are you??"
Humor: An application of communication where jokes, irony, exaggeration and lying are used to foster laughs and good will
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I'm sensing a topic that has failed. That's ok. I'm fine with that. *sniffle*. I started a topic... the public didn't want it... it worked... rather like capitalism.
SOMEONE SAVE THIS TOPIC!
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by jerball
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Oops.. Sorry, Jeremy. My fault. Ok - back to topic; I promise not to derail or mangle this one anymore...
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
NP, Glenn. Hey, here's some more American slang - "yer momma!"
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by jerball
Re: Why do sessions exist?
LOL -- you two. Jeremy, Turlach and I were going to have a bet as to how long you could go without alcohol, but we gave up, because both of us wanted "nano-second".
You're *so* predictable, dude. Did I mention that he sent me an incriminating pic of you with drink in hand?
Hmmm. This, despite all appearances, is exactly why sessions exist, because otherwise Glenn and Jeremy have nowhere to exhibit themselves but the feckin' Net.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
In reply to Q,
Those sessions tend to be in much quieter or even silent venues. The craic in those sessions exists because the order you get is superb and everyone is there purely for excellent music and not just tunes, drinks and laughs. No interuptions, and when someone else joins in they tend not to unless what they play really complements your own playing. People tend not to force their own style onto the tune already being played. There thus tends to either be impromptu solos, duets, trios, but the whole shabang don't tend to join in just cos they know the tune.
Its not for everyone and certainly not all the time, but they can certainly be great craic....
In the most rural of rural sessions I've been to in Ireland, Scotland and Outer Hebrides, sessions tend to be more like this than the more modern conception of a session.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Jamie
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Amen, sister!
Although in my defense I never exhibit myself at the session, while Jeremy has to be watched after a few pints.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
in scotland we say YUR MAMMA!
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by aye
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Well, there's two types of those circle sessions, I think -- the learning kind and the sharing kind. In the States we tend to get more of the first than the second, if you get them at all. Although I've been to Texas fiddling jams where everybody stands up one at a time and plays with two-four guitars backing them up for a few tunes, and they take turns.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Communist = Red
Capitalist = White
Pinko (Pink) = a socialist or general leftish person, but commonly misconstrued as a commie
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Jamie
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Ahem.
I think those of us that prefer playing at the pub to, say, someone's house... we love the pub and we love going out (drink, chat, meeting new people, snogging behind the kitchen) - and we love playing music. So it's the best of both worlds.
You can spot pinkos because they like feeling intellectually superior and will provide corrections to what you've already said even when that clarification is unnecessary!
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
and just to add,
those sessions also seem to occur in peoples kitchens, with overly generous teas on the table, kids under the table and are often referred to, at least in rural scotland and the islands, as ceilidhs.
.....ahhh, you must come for a ceilidh.....
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Jamie
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I vote that we stop using the deragatory terms for socialist thought in this thread because although I introduced them (in what I think is obviously a parody) someone might get ticked off and some people might start taking things seriously.
Anyone else? Why do we play in pubs???
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Ah, but you're making the circles sound all dory and hunky by using moderate language and rational arguments, whereas the gal who described how awful they are to me last night convinced me of the veracity of her observations via cunning use of skirt-twirling and eyelash-batting. Who to believe?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Q
Re: Why do sessions exist?
...he said, rather desperately...
LOL -- Jamie, you know, I was just thinking of people I know in Ireland sitting at home and making a ceili just like that. Some of the best fun I ever had in Ireland...
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
ceilidhs rock
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by aye
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Skirt-twirling is hard to argue with. Luckily, you can't do it online, so we're free of that particular logical trap.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
She's probably talking about the learning kind, Q. To be honest, I find them rather boring, as they tend to be very, um, non-spontaneous...so I'd tend to agree with your friend regardless of how much skirt and eyelash was employed or not employed... ;)
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Pinko? I'm a tory voting pedant who loves to feel intellectually superior...... ;)
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Jamie
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Now, if she adds hair twirling, then I'm likely to disagree with her just on principle... *smirk*
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Wanna ceilidh!
Actually, I might get one tomorrow. We'll see.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Q
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Several years ago, Mick Moloney wrote an article about sessions, their rules and ettiquette for the program book of our sadly-now-defunct local Irish festival. I wish I had it at hand at the moment so I wouldn't have to paraphrase, but basically he said (spot on IMHO) that there are two kinds of sessions. First would be the one-off or ad hoc sessions that occur when musicians meet up at festivals, Willie Week, etc, and decide to sit down and have a few tunes. As one-off events, those sessions each have their own particular dynamic of the moment. They are what they are. The other kind of session, though, is much more interesting from a sociological perspective. That would be the regular weekly or monthly sessions that occur in a particular place (usually a pub) over an extended period of time, with the same base group of people there from one session to the next. Mick had a lot to say about the seemingly arcane rules and behavior patterns that are associated with those kind of sessions, and again IMHO he had is exactly right. But I'll not try to paraphrase what he said, since I'd probably not do it justice. Instead I'll venture into my own thoughts now.
Why do sessions exist? That's easy, because people like to play music with others of their same musical bent rather than sitting at home alone playing by (or sould I say with?) themselves. Because they like doing this, they also will tend toward doing it on a repeated, regular basis. Basically, a shared interest is turned into a social activity, not unlike the weekly bowling league, card game, tennis match, etc.
So why are sessions in pubs rather than homes? I'd say several things come into play here. Rather than someone having to volunteer their house for a particular session (or every session), get approval from the spouse/housemates, clean up (am I the only person who throws tune parties as an excuse to finally get around to cleaning my house?), provide the food/drink and other amenities, put up with the cigarette smoke, etc, it's much easier to go to a public house (i.e. a pub) where all of that is provided already. The move to a public place does bring with it the disadvantage of having others around to observe and interact with the session (and produce noise that often makes it hard to hear yourself play), but there's also the hidden advantage of opening up the closed circle of the session to passers-through or newcomers to the area who are also of like musical mind with the session regulars. It's hard to do that in a house session, where an invitation of some form is usually needed to get in the door, so it's easy for house sessions to get stale and predictable.
Basically what I'm saying is that a session is nothing but a group of friends getting together to pursue in public an activity that they have in common. If more session newbies realized that simple fact, there would be a lot less of the awkward session situations that we lament so much. I mean, if your thing was playing poker and you walked into a bar and saw a group of people playing around the table there, would you just pull up a chair, plop yourself down and expect them to deal you in? No, you'd probably introduce yourself first as a fellow poker player and wait for them to invite you in. And if you did get invited in, you wouldn't start playing by your own rules without finding out the rules of the table first, would you? Of course not! But newbies do that kind of thing all the time at sessions and think nothing of it.
Similarly, if you walked into a pub and discovered a group of friends sitting around a table having a chat about something, you wouldn't just barge right into their conversation, would you, even if you were an expert in the topic? But again, people do exactly that at the musical conversation which is a session, and they do it all the time.
You know what it is that makes the session different and unique, then, compared to all these other examples? We put up with it, often with a smiling face and seemingly welcome front, and then talk about the perpetrators after they've left. That's what the Irish session is all about...
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by johnkerr
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Spot on, John Kerr...well, mostly. I like new faces turning up - but I suppose, on reflection, as long as they play by the rules, as you say. I try not to be too two faced, though.
It helps if you play in a nice pub though. The two I play in regularly these days are decent boozers, as are the others in London where I make infrequent visits. But I have played in some real dodgy dives - I don't know if I'd be as keen to do so nowadays. But, as has been said before, it's the people that make it - or break it.
Danny.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Why? They're a hoot
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by ...
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I have to say that I do love a nice house party / session. Last winter I used to have small gatherings at least once a month. But it is a lot of work. Clean the house, grocery shop, make my guinness beef stew, prepare snacks and make sure there is plenty of homemade or some local beer on tap downstairs (we have a rec room with an Irish pub theme, yes beer on tap!). Then there's the clean up afterwards. But it's a labor of love and totally worth it because you get to choose and invite who you want!
This weekend I'm looking forward to this Ice Skating / Music party in New Hampshire, not too far away....although this year, I'll avoid the skating, spare myself the bruises and just come down for the great company and tunes : ) For sure it will be a brilliant night of music and craic and food and drink!
I love a good pub session, but really look forward to house parties/sessions....plus it's nicer to pass out in someone's house rather than a bench in the pub or underneath a table ; )
Joyce
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by JMH
Re: Why do sessions exist?
House sessions are fine, but to me they're safe. I like the risk inherent in a pub session.
Off to mine now.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: Why do sessions exist?
See Jeremy? People did respond to your thread! You're *not* a loser; I keep telling you that.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by glenn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Joyce that sounds like a brilliant house session you run, we have a small "den" in our flat in edinburgh which is used about twice a week when we come home from nights out and clubbing etc, the usual student stuff, and at 3 o clock (in the morning) we start the music: whistles, guitars, me on fiddle, bongos etc etc, theres no beer on tap but the off liscence across the road is close enough
its great
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by aye
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Why what, Michael?
I take it you mean divey pubs. Yeah they can be fun I s'ppose. But I reckon I'd *rather* play in a good, friendly-staffed, well run, Irish pub (not Irish theme pub) serving good Guinness/real ales.
The last Irish theme pub I was in was at the end of last summer, nothing to do with the music, I was having a quick couple of pints with a colleague, Friday evening kinda job.
Here, a fight breaks out among a group of really pissed up building site guys sitting outside. Well, not so much a fight as a massacre. This little stocky psycho guy starts shouting and swearing right into the face of a big tall skinny glaickit guy, who's even more drunk. Next thing, the little guy pulls him by the hair, smashes his head on the concrete, then stamps on the head. In full view of the whole pub. Then walks off and goes to get his train, as do the rest of the group, leaving the long one lying bleeding. Maybe 20 years ago I might have been foolish enough to try and intervene. I've got a family to support now though. Myself and my work mate (I suppose colleague is a tad formal, but that's what he is really) did go out as soon as they'd gone and near enough scrape the guy up and offer to take him over to King's College Hospital, but he was having none of it so much so he was getting into a pre-aggressive mood, so, sod it, we just left him.
That's why I don't like dodgy pubs.
Danny.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Er...probably he meant an answer to "Why do Sessions Exist?", I'm guessing. *grin* You know. The subject we were on?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
On the basis of mick's minimalist post, I was guessing as well, Zina. And at the same time managed to say, by documenting an example, why I prefer good pubs.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Reg Hall says that pub sessions were never tradtional in Ireland,they started in London in the Fifties when Irish muscians who had come to England to work wanted to play together,and because they were staying in boarding houses and the like,the only places they could play were the Irish pubs.
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Yes, and I can see why...yoips. Wonder how they all got along the next work day?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Birds gotta fly,
Get high in the sky
We all wanna play
but don't ask me why
I think the location is subordinate to the music,
but as long as there exist friendly pubs where they
welcome music that would be a good place to start....
Hal
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by FiddleTramp
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Wow! Do you know Reg, then, Jocklet? Is he still writing up the dreaded pee aitch dee?
Zina - I went through a period for (mercifully)a few years where I led much the same lifestyle that many of those boys did till they dropped. I managed to get out. Up at six. Seven, half seven or eight o' clock start on the buildings. Get shouted at and told what to do by some eejit foreman, work in filth, graft till the arms and legs ache, till 5,6,7pm. go home, shower, eat, go to pub, drink, play tunes, go home to bed, up at six...
What do you think might have been the fun part of the day?
Danny.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Dunno, getting your head stomped on? *smirk*
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Ah yes, the problem with throwing a house party is that your time gets eaten up taking care of all the guests, and you don't get to do much playing / socializing yourself. At my last party I had a wonderful solution - a friend's girlfriend was a caterer, and she catered the thing just for the cost of the raw materials. She ran the kitchen, kept the table stocked with drinks and munchies, and all I had to do was enjoy the company...
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by HighlandSun
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Ooo, good idea, H! Maybe I'll try that next time we have a big party. Now, who can I draft?
We had a party at Christmas and we had over 50 people crammed into the place -- I think I played maybe 10 tunes the entire night, if that, because I was too busy making sure everyone was comfy and full (and cooking tatties and neeps to go with the haggis). (Why is it that if you have 50 people at a party, almost everybody tries to play Telephone Booth in the kitchen? At one point, I think almost everybody was in the damn breakfast nook, which barely holds four people normally.)
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Yes, yes. I totally understand why people who live in areas where there are traditionally sessions - and sessions in pubs - would continue to do just that. I guess I was curious to hear why people who don't live in London, or Dublin, or Chicago or whatever choose to play their music in loud, smoky, sometimes pain-in-the-a$$ pubs (God, I love 'em). I know very well why I like it and I know how sessions evolved in that direction. But we have a lot of people on this board from far flung places and they usually talk about the session at their pub. I'm not saying sessions shouldn't be in pubs. I like pubs, usually a little too much (BTW, Zina, I'll see Turlach on Sunday and I'll hide the cameras). I'm just doing a little sociological research. Do we do it because... well that's just what you do... without a lot of thought? Or do the reasons that sessions moved into pubs still apply? Even in Montana? Walawala, anyone?
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by jerball
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Z - it's the ol' kitchen gravity phenomenon! For some reason there's always something warm and inviting about a kitchen... It happens at nearly every house party I've been to. I think some of it is because people spend a fair amount of time going to the kitchen for food, and they then bump into someone else there, get into conversation, and stay there, never returning from whence they came.....
I think you use pubs because there aren't a lot of other social gathering places to choose from, and you need to keep things public so that people can hear about 'em and find them.
The session I run at the Celtic Arts Center is not in a pub, but there's a bar in the back room. There's a monthly session in Burbank that's held at the Moose Lodge, which also has a bar in an adjoining room. It seems that without alcohol available a lot of people wouldn't bother to show up. Since pubs/clubs are the main music/dance/drink scene in most places, that's what most people will think of first...
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by HighlandSun
Re: Why do sessions exist?
If pub sessions didn't exist, somebody would have to invent them.
:>))
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Home sessions are great too but I ain't fond of clearing up the debris and burying the bodies left behind at 5 am.
# Posted on February 14th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: Why do sessions exist?
One of our ex members used to chop up the bodies and store them in the freezer but only if they'd been having affairs with old war horses. :>)
# Posted on February 14th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Did "she" need the excuse, John? *grin*
Jer, say hi to Turlach for me and tell him he'd better well have sent me that cd or I'll have to hunt him down and kill him. Oh, and be sure to tell him he's not allowed to slag anybody anymore AT ALL because this is America, home of the free and the wussy, and he's not allowed to be an ***hole. Be sure to tell me what his answer is, that'll be the best part.
Yeah, I'd agree with the above -- bar and pub sessions are great because nobody has to be responsible for cleaning up afterward, nobody has to bring the beer, and nobody has to be quiet cause the kids are sleeping, etc.
# Posted on February 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I love house sessions but you're right all the preparation and cleaning up and finding bodies under the beds make for hard work. And I find it takes people a longer time to relax and begin to play than in a pub. Probably the atmosphere in the pub is there to begin with and after a drink its easy to chill out. When I started playing first we used to have a practice session in the cellar of the Ferryman Pub in Dublin once a week. It was a damp, dark, smelly place with a gas fire around which we would all huddle and play our really bad music. We referred to ourselves as the cellar rats but did eventually emerge into the daylight to play in Hughes Pub on a Monday night - mind you we were the one group that never got a free drink (were we really so bad Mick). Nowadays of course we can play anywhere (well almost) but I think of those days with nostalgia sometimes
d
# Posted on February 14th 2004 by MollyB
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I only came across Reg Hall once,when he was over here in Belgium playing for the Bampton Morris Men.We a good chat and a great session,fuelled by Trappist beer.It was a pleasure to meet and play with a man who was a leading figure in the folk scene in the Fifties and Sixties.I think that he's still working on his P.H.D.
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd
Re: Why do sessions exist?
I'm new to Irish music--just learning the tin whistle now. So there's a lot I don't know. Allow me to ask one or two really dumb questions:
Is a session basically like a jam? You and some friends get together and play a bunch of tunes you all know together? JohnKerr above mentioned something about newbies coming up and joining in--are you supposed to stay out of a session unless you know the people there? What about the sessions posted here on this website--are those open or closed sessions?
Forgive the neophitey questions. I'm not anywhere good enough to play in front of people yet anyway, and don't think many people hold sessions in my town (Bloomington, Indiana). I could be wrong about that...
Daniel
# Posted on February 15th 2004 by LCorinth
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Sessions exist, well in Ireland ne way, for long suffering musicans to meet up discuss the days hardship over a few tunes and if there lucky enough a few good pints. Sessions exist to promote irish trad music and for like minded people 2 b able 2 sit down together and hav the craic, doing something their passionate about!
# Posted on February 15th 2004 by shiv1
Re: Why do sessions exist?
If sessions did not exist, it would be necessary to invent them.
let's remember that until really very recently your average home/apartment had horrid heating, very cramped space and limited cooking facilities; most went out because it was better than home, better water, better heat, better food, better washroom facilities! The pub is, after all the "Public House", ie a shared space let out by an entrepreneur ( ;) ) to provide something others didn't have.
And then, later and maybe still (I'm out of circulation a long time understand) there were the propriety rules, landladies not allowing loud friends or alcohol, not being able to invite a young lady to your home for "a jam" but no problem to meet her with some friends in public, at the public house --- This is, in fact, how May and I spent our first dates: She invited me to play backup for her gig but we couldn't practice in her parent's apartment and it didn't seem proper to invite her out to my rural farmhouse ;) ... so we crashed a local artists' cafe and asked if they minded if we "rehearsed".
Anyway, back to sessions. We no longer need the public house for the heat or the plumbing, Lord knows most these days have neither, and we thumb our noses (or some other digit) at nagging landlords, and thus there was that brief flirtation with cocooning with a $2000 stereo entertaining "private affairs" and all that gentry stuff.
But that's lacking, it's not "music" its the shadows of music, a snapshot of a vista that you can't step into.
Give me a fair-priced pub with the most novice players over the passive consumption of any name-brand trained seal act on CD. Anyday. Even with all the mistakes, with all the two chord changes and missed G changes, it's real, it breathes, it learns and it grows and that's why I love the sessions ...
well, that right kind of sessions.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by garym
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Daniel:
"I'm not anywhere good enough to play in front of people yet anyway, and don't think many people hold sessions in my town (Bloomington, Indiana)"
Sessions and players exist (massively, at an international level) in your current location. Check out Grey Larsen, Bridget Murphy, Jamie Gans, Sam Bartlett, and the Runcible Spoon. All Bloomington institutions.
chris smith
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: Why do sessions exist?
Chris:
Grey Larsen lives in BLOOMINGTON?? And now that I've checked the phone book, I see that there IS a Grey Larsen in B'town--is this THE Grey Larsen, the flute-playing guy of "The Orange Tree" and other albums? I can't believe that! Wow...
My mind has just been blown... Thanks for the information, Chris.
Daniel
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by LCorinth