Hello everybody,
I have a question about Donogh Hennesy's guitar playing. Quite often, I hear him strumming triplets, sort of. It's kind of hard to explain. Someone I know was wondering if this is called "Rasquedo." Anybody know? And also, does anyone know of any other guitarists that do that? Personally, I think it sounds really awesome when he does it, whatever it's called.
"Rasquedo" is a flamenco technique where you stum with each of the fingers of your strumming hand by sort of opening a fist, little finger (pinky) first.
Not heard Mr. Hennesy so don't know if that's what he does.
Here's a precis of a note I wrote to a Celtic Backup customer who asked about this same technique.
Steve Cooney:
1) Technique. Cooney uses an unusual technique, playing with both a pick and with fingernails (more in the flamenco style) on a nylon-string guitar. This is unusual in ITM, where a steel-strung guitar, played with a flatpick exclusively, is more common.
2) Cooney is quite aggressive and interactive: the degree to which he plays dense, busy, or rhythmically-contrasted ideas is unusual for ITM. Many melody players would be averse to this much interaction from a backer. This is true of Cooney both in live situations, and also in overdubbing/studio situations: in the latter, he puts a *lot* of additional stuff on there: bass, percussion, synthesizer, didgeridoo, etc.
3) For all that, Cooney is obviously very popular with a number of players, especially people playing for dancers. He made his mark as accompanist for the great button-box player Seamus Begley, playing for set-dancers in Begley’s native Kerry, a very traditional context for a player as non-traditional as Cooney. However, Begley and others obviously really like Cooney’s playing or they wouldn’t use him.
4) To my ear, what makes Cooney’s playing work, despite its non-traditional or unusual approach to backing, is that he plays impeccable dance rhythms. If you listen to good set-dancers, and then listen to Cooney’s backup work, it’s obvious that much of his aggressive, interactive, and rhythmic conception is an imitation of the sound of the dancers’ feet on the floor. I think this is why dancers and dance-musicians like his playing: because it suits the dance-music character of the music so well.
[...]
I don’t know Donogh’s playing so well (I’m aware of Lunasa but don’t have their discs) but I think what you’re describing is a two-part phenomenon:
1) Cooney playing cross-rhythms.
[...]
Notice how most of the accented strums appear on the “off-beat”; this gives the momentary sensation that he’s playing in a different rhythm.
2) Cooney playing rasgueados (you’re right, that’s the correct term). In that case, he’s simply strumming, in whatever rhythm he’s using, with the 4 fingers of the right hand like a flamenco player.
Anyway just to say about point 4 above - the best morris musicians also play for the dance as much as for the tune. Which can indeed lead to the impression of different rhythms because sometimes the dance steps and figures can go against the tune in places. You see this in the original fieldnotes of tune collectors before the notation became standardised for the parlour or whatever.
Back to the guitar, does Mr. Hennesy play with a pick or fingers? You can strum triplets with a pick, just takes muscle/neurone practice. And a loose wrist. And a good sense of where the beat is.
I've seen a video of Donogh playing with Sharon Shannon. The only triplet like technique I saw/heard was simply the fast down-up-down-up strumming on a chord. Simply put, he strums faster to get a strumming triplet. He uses the same technique with Lunasa. It would sound like da-da-da-dum, letting the last chord linger before strumming again. Bouzouki, mandolin, and cittern players use this technique.
Michael, you must mean the Bothy Band. Sorry, but you will have to forgive me. I am younger than you are (I presume) and the Bothy Band disbanded before I was even born, and here is Lunasa thriving before my eyes. If I were to hear of one before the other, I think it would be Lunasa.
I read a couple of posts of yours (a while back) saying that you did not like Lunasa because they copied the Bothy Band, and that you thought the Bothy Band was the greatest band ever. I have thought on that ever since, and I was wondering if you could explain to me why you think they shouldn't do that. Doesn't it just show what a strong influence the Bothies had over the music? And do you really not like Lunasa at all?
I have never heard the Bothy Band, but I have heard Matt Molloy and Kevin Burke, playing solo, and with other groups. Kevin was one of the first fiddlers I ever heard of, and he remains my favorite to this day. I did however, order three Bothy Band albums two days ago, so I can hear what they sound like. I have heard many good things about them, and look forward to listening to them.
Thanks everybody for helping me out on Donogh's triplet strumming.
Greenman -- Donogh uses a flatpick when he plays mostly, but uses his fingers for the slower tunes.
I don't not like Lunasa because the copy the Bothy Band. They are terrific musicians, splended, tons of respect, etc. I like Lunasa. You just have to have a bit of perspective. Lunasa are great musicians. They are just not up to creating something new. It's a shame.
Sure, Lunasa echoes the Bothy Band--with top-flight musos on flute, pipes, fiddle, and guitar cranking out steam, how could they not? But I don't see how having a double bass (let alone an electric, upright, bowed bass), or doing whistle duets and trios, or launching into Breton and Klezmer tunes, or playing whole sets of self-penned tunes is "copying" anyone. And if you listen carefully enough, you'll realize that Kevin Crawford doesn't sound like Matt Molloy, and Sean Smyth doesn't sound like Tommy Peoples or Kevin Burke, and Cillian's not parroting Paddy, and so on.
Personally, I thoroughly enjoy Lunasa for what they do, and I enjoy the old Bothy recordings too. Last I checked, they weren't both in the same ceili band competition.....
they are both good bands and i imagine if you sat down with sean and the boys they would admit they were influenced by the bothy band. And i'm sure the bothies dabbled with Breizh tunes etc, didnt they get together with alan stivell ??
anyway they are all brilliant and we should be happy that they are there to be listened to rather than argueing amongst each other.
OASIS though !!!!!! my god they copied just abou everybody dont get me started on those Gallagher boys ! never ever had an original idea !
speaking of Oasis and Lunasa , has anyone noticed the lunasa tune that sounds like an Oasis song ??
I think we're all agreed that Lunasa are a good band, even if not entirely original. Better that than some of the other efforts where attempts to be too clever just don't pay off.
Re the Bothy Band. I saw them live in either 1975 or 1976 (former, I think) at the Inverness Folk festival which was great in those days. Up until then, you had "folk rock" versus "purist trad" music and never the twain would meet. I remember their gig was one of the most exciting things I'd ever seen--and all with acoustic instruments. Up until then, most of the Irish music I'd heard consisted of The Dubliners, Clancys etc although the Cheiftains had become popular and Planxty had been on the go for a year or two also.
There was an all night session in the Douglas hotel after the concert and, according to the local folklore, the management had to close the bar for an hour between 6 and 7 am for cleaning. The members of the Bothy band (Tommy Peoples was specifically mentioned) purchased a carry out to "bridge the gap" and carry on playing. I don't know. I *was" there but not that late (or early, as the case was). Great times.
Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Hello everybody,
I have a question about Donogh Hennesy's guitar playing. Quite often, I hear him strumming triplets, sort of. It's kind of hard to explain. Someone I know was wondering if this is called "Rasquedo." Anybody know? And also, does anyone know of any other guitarists that do that? Personally, I think it sounds really awesome when he does it, whatever it's called.
Thanks!
-Max
# Posted on February 12th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
"Rasquedo" is a flamenco technique where you stum with each of the fingers of your strumming hand by sort of opening a fist, little finger (pinky) first.
Not heard Mr. Hennesy so don't know if that's what he does.
())/
# Posted on February 12th 2004 by greenman
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Here's a precis of a note I wrote to a Celtic Backup customer who asked about this same technique.
Steve Cooney:
1) Technique. Cooney uses an unusual technique, playing with both a pick and with fingernails (more in the flamenco style) on a nylon-string guitar. This is unusual in ITM, where a steel-strung guitar, played with a flatpick exclusively, is more common.
2) Cooney is quite aggressive and interactive: the degree to which he plays dense, busy, or rhythmically-contrasted ideas is unusual for ITM. Many melody players would be averse to this much interaction from a backer. This is true of Cooney both in live situations, and also in overdubbing/studio situations: in the latter, he puts a *lot* of additional stuff on there: bass, percussion, synthesizer, didgeridoo, etc.
3) For all that, Cooney is obviously very popular with a number of players, especially people playing for dancers. He made his mark as accompanist for the great button-box player Seamus Begley, playing for set-dancers in Begley’s native Kerry, a very traditional context for a player as non-traditional as Cooney. However, Begley and others obviously really like Cooney’s playing or they wouldn’t use him.
4) To my ear, what makes Cooney’s playing work, despite its non-traditional or unusual approach to backing, is that he plays impeccable dance rhythms. If you listen to good set-dancers, and then listen to Cooney’s backup work, it’s obvious that much of his aggressive, interactive, and rhythmic conception is an imitation of the sound of the dancers’ feet on the floor. I think this is why dancers and dance-musicians like his playing: because it suits the dance-music character of the music so well.
[...]
I don’t know Donogh’s playing so well (I’m aware of Lunasa but don’t have their discs) but I think what you’re describing is a two-part phenomenon:
1) Cooney playing cross-rhythms.
[...]
Notice how most of the accented strums appear on the “off-beat”; this gives the momentary sensation that he’s playing in a different rhythm.
2) Cooney playing rasgueados (you’re right, that’s the correct term). In that case, he’s simply strumming, in whatever rhythm he’s using, with the 4 fingers of the right hand like a flamenco player.
# Posted on February 12th 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
OK, sorry for the pasted-from-word-processor diacriticals. I was working from Notepad but didn't originate the post there.
# Posted on February 12th 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Diacriticals? I'll look it up later, thanks
Anyway just to say about point 4 above - the best morris musicians also play for the dance as much as for the tune. Which can indeed lead to the impression of different rhythms because sometimes the dance steps and figures can go against the tune in places. You see this in the original fieldnotes of tune collectors before the notation became standardised for the parlour or whatever.
Back to the guitar, does Mr. Hennesy play with a pick or fingers? You can strum triplets with a pick, just takes muscle/neurone practice. And a loose wrist. And a good sense of where the beat is.
())/
# Posted on February 12th 2004 by greenman
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
I've seen a video of Donogh playing with Sharon Shannon. The only triplet like technique I saw/heard was simply the fast down-up-down-up strumming on a chord. Simply put, he strums faster to get a strumming triplet. He uses the same technique with Lunasa. It would sound like da-da-da-dum, letting the last chord linger before strumming again. Bouzouki, mandolin, and cittern players use this technique.
# Posted on February 12th 2004 by Odin
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Again, here we are with people who seem not to have ever listened to the Both Band
# Posted on February 12th 2004 by llig leahcim
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Michael, you must mean the Bothy Band. Sorry, but you will have to forgive me. I am younger than you are (I presume) and the Bothy Band disbanded before I was even born, and here is Lunasa thriving before my eyes. If I were to hear of one before the other, I think it would be Lunasa.
I read a couple of posts of yours (a while back) saying that you did not like Lunasa because they copied the Bothy Band, and that you thought the Bothy Band was the greatest band ever. I have thought on that ever since, and I was wondering if you could explain to me why you think they shouldn't do that. Doesn't it just show what a strong influence the Bothies had over the music? And do you really not like Lunasa at all?
I have never heard the Bothy Band, but I have heard Matt Molloy and Kevin Burke, playing solo, and with other groups. Kevin was one of the first fiddlers I ever heard of, and he remains my favorite to this day. I did however, order three Bothy Band albums two days ago, so I can hear what they sound like. I have heard many good things about them, and look forward to listening to them.
Thanks everybody for helping me out on Donogh's triplet strumming.
Greenman -- Donogh uses a flatpick when he plays mostly, but uses his fingers for the slower tunes.
-Max
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
I don't not like Lunasa because the copy the Bothy Band. They are terrific musicians, splended, tons of respect, etc. I like Lunasa. You just have to have a bit of perspective. Lunasa are great musicians. They are just not up to creating something new. It's a shame.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by llig leahcim
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Oh, I see what you mean. Well, I can't wait for those Bothy Band albums to arrive. Did you ever get to see them live, Michael?
-Max
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Sure, Lunasa echoes the Bothy Band--with top-flight musos on flute, pipes, fiddle, and guitar cranking out steam, how could they not? But I don't see how having a double bass (let alone an electric, upright, bowed bass), or doing whistle duets and trios, or launching into Breton and Klezmer tunes, or playing whole sets of self-penned tunes is "copying" anyone. And if you listen carefully enough, you'll realize that Kevin Crawford doesn't sound like Matt Molloy, and Sean Smyth doesn't sound like Tommy Peoples or Kevin Burke, and Cillian's not parroting Paddy, and so on.
Personally, I thoroughly enjoy Lunasa for what they do, and I enjoy the old Bothy recordings too. Last I checked, they weren't both in the same ceili band competition.....
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
...and what a shame it would be if the Bothy's opened a door and nobody ever followed them through to continue exploring what's on the other side.
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
so much snaping and bickering
they are both good bands and i imagine if you sat down with sean and the boys they would admit they were influenced by the bothy band. And i'm sure the bothies dabbled with Breizh tunes etc, didnt they get together with alan stivell ??
anyway they are all brilliant and we should be happy that they are there to be listened to rather than argueing amongst each other.
OASIS though !!!!!! my god they copied just abou everybody dont get me started on those Gallagher boys ! never ever had an original idea !
speaking of Oasis and Lunasa , has anyone noticed the lunasa tune that sounds like an Oasis song ??
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Red Crow
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
I think it was a long-time dream of Sean's to create something like the Bothy Band with the fiddle/flute/pipes combo.
-Max
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
I think we're all agreed that Lunasa are a good band, even if not entirely original. Better that than some of the other efforts where attempts to be too clever just don't pay off.
Re the Bothy Band. I saw them live in either 1975 or 1976 (former, I think) at the Inverness Folk festival which was great in those days. Up until then, you had "folk rock" versus "purist trad" music and never the twain would meet. I remember their gig was one of the most exciting things I'd ever seen--and all with acoustic instruments. Up until then, most of the Irish music I'd heard consisted of The Dubliners, Clancys etc although the Cheiftains had become popular and Planxty had been on the go for a year or two also.
There was an all night session in the Douglas hotel after the concert and, according to the local folklore, the management had to close the bar for an hour between 6 and 7 am for cleaning. The members of the Bothy band (Tommy Peoples was specifically mentioned) purchased a carry out to "bridge the gap" and carry on playing. I don't know. I *was" there but not that late (or early, as the case was). Great times.
John
# Posted on February 13th 2004 by John J.
Re: Donogh Hennessy's "triplet strumming"
Ooh, I just thought of something that Lunasa does that is very original. No vocalist! They're entirely instrumental! Now that's hard to find.
-Max
# Posted on February 14th 2004 by Max Becher