I mostly do backup on my guitar,but sometimes I do melody,and I've been wondering if it's possible to do rolls.I've tried it,without success.I'd like to know if anyone has managed this.Thanks!
Well, I know that the guitar and banjo are similar, and I do rolls on my banjo alot. But I don't know, the mechanics may be different between the two insturments.
You can do roles using hammering on and pulling off.
Pick the note hammer on a note above and pull off a note bellow.
Obviously you can't do this anywhere the pull off needs to be an open string, unless you've got very strong 3 and 4 fingers.
I've not spent a lot of time getting very good at this technique but if you put your mind to it I'm shore you could become very fluent.
As people have said, rolls aren't easy on plucked strings, and so the "pluckers" often substitute picked triplets. A couple of things you can do to make the triplets more interesting:
1) vary the middle note of the three. As Kieran Hanrahan and Don Meade put it, having contrasting melodic content in the middle of the triplet makes it that much more like a "short roll."
2) put a cut before the triplet: that is, a pull-off from a higher note down to the note upon which you pluck the triplet.
3) explore other kinds of ornaments. Crans/cuts/tips all work well as hammer-on/pull-offs.
4) FWIW: it *is* possible to play long rolls (note-note above-note-note below-note) under the 3 of the 4 left-hand fingers on plucked strings. It's easier on banjo, FE, than guitar, because of the lighter string gauges and lower string tension, but it can be done on guitar.
a) under first finger: strike the note, hammer on with second finger, pull off to principle note, pull off to an open string, hammer on with first finger
b) under second finger: strike the note, hammer on with third finger, pull off to principle note, pull off to first finger, hammer on with second finger
c) under third finger: strike the note, hammer on with fourth finger, pull off to principle note, pull off to second finger, hammer on with third finger
Takes a lot of digital strength but it can be done. You can also practice C, G, D, A scales this way, especially in first position (e.g., combining open strings and fretted notes). You get a lot stronger and a lot more dextrous by isolating these ornaments and focusing upon them. Then, when you go to drop them into a tune, the dexterity is already there.
Roger Landes (bouzouki), a piper as well, has developed the art of transferring piping ornaments to plucked strings to a high level. He teaches these skills at various workshops (notably his Taos, NM festival: http://www.zoukfest.com) but various people have also put them on the web: http://www.greenmanhumming.com/html/zoukornaments/
These would adapt from bouzouki (which has even higher string gauges/tension) to guitar fairly easily.
If you can find it/hear him, check out Dean Magraw's playing with John Williams and Peter Ostroushko. Dean is a phenomenal bebop and bluegrass player, but his chops work very well for Irtrad as well.
A cran originates with piping, later borrowed by flute players (notably Matt Molloy) and also bouzouki players (notably Roger Landes). It's used especially on those notes which don't readily admit of the note-BELOW element of the long roll, particularly the bottom D. Since neither the simple-system flute nor the pipe chanter go below that D, it's pretty much impossible to play a conventional long roll, eg:
D-E-D-C(#)-D
because the low C/C# is not available.
Pipers instead developed the ability to play ornaments which rhythmically and percussively matched the roll, but used only "grace notes" from above the main note, eg:
D-E-D-(F)(F#)(G)-D
Crans can also be played with a single note "cut" from above, eg:
D-(E)(F)(F#)(G)-D
These are very useful on plucked strings for those notes which are unfretted, eg, on low-tuned banjo, for example: G, D, A, E. It's hard to play a legato (hammer-on/pull-off) roll which crosses strings below the principal note, so the cran is a useful alternative.
Hi, folks. My first post here. I've played rolls on the guitar for a good long while and didn't know it was so unusual 'til several years ago. I played Morrison's in a session, throwing in a couple of rolls, and another guitar player remarked that he'd never seen it done on guitar before and never tried it. He's a very adept player whom I admire, so I was surprised by that.
A lot of flatpickers got their start copying folks like Doc Watson and Norman Blake and later moved into the Celtic world, bringing the bluegrass toolkit with them. Bluegrass relies heavily on speed and variation instead of ornamentation. Anyway, it's no harder than lots of other guitar tricks, once you realize it's possible and worth doing.
I also do a roll on open strings (going to the lower string), but only fingerstyle. Haven't tried it with a pick but I know it would be hard for me.
For me, Arty McGlynn has to be the ultimate in recorded ITM flat-picked melody on the guitar. An old self-titled album of his has been re-released under a new name "Celtic Airs" (ugh!), and you can hear sound clips here:
I love the whole album, but particularly listen to "The Floating Crowbar / Star of Munster" , "Arthur Darley" and "Carolan's Draught"
Next to Arty, I always loved Paul Brady's guitar work when he played traditional, but he didn't record a lot of his melody work on guitar. There's a clip "Fred Finn's reel" on the Paul Brady/Andy Irvine album here:
guitar rolls
guitar rolls
I mostly do backup on my guitar,but sometimes I do melody,and I've been wondering if it's possible to do rolls.I've tried it,without success.I'd like to know if anyone has managed this.Thanks!
# Posted on December 30th 2003 by seisflutes
Re: guitar rolls
Well, I know that the guitar and banjo are similar, and I do rolls on my banjo alot. But I don't know, the mechanics may be different between the two insturments.
Johnathan
# Posted on December 30th 2003 by Harper_Lad
Re: guitar rolls
A friend of mine is a mandola player, and he usually make a sort of triplets instead of rolls.
# Posted on December 30th 2003 by gian marco
Re: guitar rolls
You can do roles using hammering on and pulling off.
Pick the note hammer on a note above and pull off a note bellow.
Obviously you can't do this anywhere the pull off needs to be an open string, unless you've got very strong 3 and 4 fingers.
I've not spent a lot of time getting very good at this technique but if you put your mind to it I'm shore you could become very fluent.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on December 30th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: guitar rolls
Thanks a lot guys.Pied Piper,that's what I was trying to do.I guess I just need more practice.
# Posted on December 31st 2003 by seisflutes
Re: guitar rolls
As people have said, rolls aren't easy on plucked strings, and so the "pluckers" often substitute picked triplets. A couple of things you can do to make the triplets more interesting:
1) vary the middle note of the three. As Kieran Hanrahan and Don Meade put it, having contrasting melodic content in the middle of the triplet makes it that much more like a "short roll."
2) put a cut before the triplet: that is, a pull-off from a higher note down to the note upon which you pluck the triplet.
3) explore other kinds of ornaments. Crans/cuts/tips all work well as hammer-on/pull-offs.
4) FWIW: it *is* possible to play long rolls (note-note above-note-note below-note) under the 3 of the 4 left-hand fingers on plucked strings. It's easier on banjo, FE, than guitar, because of the lighter string gauges and lower string tension, but it can be done on guitar.
a) under first finger: strike the note, hammer on with second finger, pull off to principle note, pull off to an open string, hammer on with first finger
b) under second finger: strike the note, hammer on with third finger, pull off to principle note, pull off to first finger, hammer on with second finger
c) under third finger: strike the note, hammer on with fourth finger, pull off to principle note, pull off to second finger, hammer on with third finger
Takes a lot of digital strength but it can be done. You can also practice C, G, D, A scales this way, especially in first position (e.g., combining open strings and fretted notes). You get a lot stronger and a lot more dextrous by isolating these ornaments and focusing upon them. Then, when you go to drop them into a tune, the dexterity is already there.
Roger Landes (bouzouki), a piper as well, has developed the art of transferring piping ornaments to plucked strings to a high level. He teaches these skills at various workshops (notably his Taos, NM festival: http://www.zoukfest.com) but various people have also put them on the web:
http://www.greenmanhumming.com/html/zoukornaments/
These would adapt from bouzouki (which has even higher string gauges/tension) to guitar fairly easily.
I've got analogous material for banjo (lighter/easier) at http://www.banjosessions.com/dec03/irishmusic.html
If you can find it/hear him, check out Dean Magraw's playing with John Williams and Peter Ostroushko. Dean is a phenomenal bebop and bluegrass player, but his chops work very well for Irtrad as well.
Good luck.
chris smith
# Posted on December 31st 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: guitar rolls
Shewing my woeful ignorance of ornementation... just how d'you run thru' a cran?
-Pádraig
# Posted on January 1st 2004 by Pádraig
Re: guitar rolls
A cran originates with piping, later borrowed by flute players (notably Matt Molloy) and also bouzouki players (notably Roger Landes). It's used especially on those notes which don't readily admit of the note-BELOW element of the long roll, particularly the bottom D. Since neither the simple-system flute nor the pipe chanter go below that D, it's pretty much impossible to play a conventional long roll, eg:
D-E-D-C(#)-D
because the low C/C# is not available.
Pipers instead developed the ability to play ornaments which rhythmically and percussively matched the roll, but used only "grace notes" from above the main note, eg:
D-E-D-(F)(F#)(G)-D
Crans can also be played with a single note "cut" from above, eg:
D-(E)(F)(F#)(G)-D
These are very useful on plucked strings for those notes which are unfretted, eg, on low-tuned banjo, for example: G, D, A, E. It's hard to play a legato (hammer-on/pull-off) roll which crosses strings below the principal note, so the cran is a useful alternative.
chris smith
# Posted on January 1st 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: guitar rolls
Hi, folks. My first post here. I've played rolls on the guitar for a good long while and didn't know it was so unusual 'til several years ago. I played Morrison's in a session, throwing in a couple of rolls, and another guitar player remarked that he'd never seen it done on guitar before and never tried it. He's a very adept player whom I admire, so I was surprised by that.
A lot of flatpickers got their start copying folks like Doc Watson and Norman Blake and later moved into the Celtic world, bringing the bluegrass toolkit with them. Bluegrass relies heavily on speed and variation instead of ornamentation. Anyway, it's no harder than lots of other guitar tricks, once you realize it's possible and worth doing.
I also do a roll on open strings (going to the lower string), but only fingerstyle. Haven't tried it with a pick but I know it would be hard for me.
Bob
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Bob himself
Re: guitar rolls
For me, Arty McGlynn has to be the ultimate in recorded ITM flat-picked melody on the guitar. An old self-titled album of his has been re-released under a new name "Celtic Airs" (ugh!), and you can hear sound clips here:
http://www.musical-genre.com/arty_mcglynn.htm
I love the whole album, but particularly listen to "The Floating Crowbar / Star of Munster" , "Arthur Darley" and "Carolan's Draught"
Next to Arty, I always loved Paul Brady's guitar work when he played traditional, but he didn't record a lot of his melody work on guitar. There's a clip "Fred Finn's reel" on the Paul Brady/Andy Irvine album here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000005CRX/qid=1074124219/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-1370233-4010243?v=glance&s=music
I think he also did a version of the "Home Ruler" on the Peoples/Molloy/Brady album.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by grego