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Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Just to broaden viewpoints from the Christian Christmassy view of things we have stuffed down our psyches at this time of year. I hope this hijack of the season is not too unwelcome.
I know some Buddhists - the converted type, English people, very nice, read all the scripts (and scriptures!), and I've read a few Buddhism bits and pieces myself...blah, blah. This isn't going to be an evangelical religious post, so don't click off this thread. Not yet.
But they maintain - and I've kindov intuitively arrived at this conclusion myself - also the kinda thing Kevin Burke put on the front page of his website as a quote - can't remember exactly wot 'e said - but when you're really digging into a tune, you're not thinking about anything else, not thinking about anything, really. Just going for it.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Conway
Budding young eight key Ormiston flute player, started playing flute in 1998 and still have lots to learn. Living in Cardiff, playing mainly Irish stuff (yes we get some stick for that, now and then) but with an interest in Welsh tunes as well.
"still have lots to learn" - that's the bit I like. Hang on in there son.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Danny,
I don't suppose you ever followed American basketball, but if you did, you perhaps remember seeing Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls driving to the basket -- his tongue dangled out and flapped as he ran, and you could just tell, for him, there was nothing -- no crowd, no opponents -- just him and the basket.
Or American baseball. They say Ted Williams could read the print on the ball as it was fast-pitched to him.
I don't think athletes have a lock on that phenomenon any more than musicians do. It's a goal, eh?
Paul S.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Sounds like you're talking about "being in the zone" - when the rest of the world ceases to exists, and it's just you, the instrument and the music (not necessarily in that order
I have this happen a couple of times, although not in session, but when I'm practising. One night I spent four hours on the same tune, not reaslising that so much time had passed.
For me the key is to play music that reaches out and grabs me; not any old tune will do
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
"I don't suppose you ever followed American basketball, but if you did, you perhaps remember seeing Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls driving to the basket -- his tongue dangled out and flapped as he ran, and you could just tell, for him, there was nothing -- no crowd, no opponents -- just him and the basket."
Michael had a beautiful quote at the press conference following his last game with the Bulls, when, in the last 6 seconds of the game, he'd taken an inbounds pass, gone up for a jump shot, and made it, handing the Bulls the championship. At the press conference, when somebody asked him what he'd been thinking about, he said "Well, it's kinda like that Zen thing that Phil (Jackson, then-coach of the Bulls, and a practicing Buddhist) talks about--where time slows down, and you're just concentrating, and there's just right now."
OT: Alllow me to recommend a nice book by Zen student (Katagiri Roshi lineage) and writing teacher Natalie Goldberg: "Writing Down the Bones." She describes her teacher Katagiri saying to her: "make writing your spiritual practice." That book had a profound impact on my own musical development. I still do bows before my morning practice sessions.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Another great book is "Zen Guitar" by Philip Toshio Sudo, which I think applies to most instruments. For more infor check out: http://www.maui.net/~zen_gtr/
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Hmm...
"But they maintain - and I've kindov intuitively arrived at this conclusion myself - also the kinda thing Kevin Burke put on the front page of his website as a quote - can't remember exactly wot 'e said - but when you're really digging into a tune, you're not thinking about anything else, not thinking about anything, really. Just going for it."
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Martin - I'm not saying you have to be a buddhist to play this stuff, or anything like that - just parallelling that state of mind, and Dave, that state of mind is exactly the opposite of concentrating, just letting it happen.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
The problem is, when the crack's 90, and the tunes are flowing saliva from a rabid ferret's mouth, and I'm 'just going for it', sooner or later I invariably start thinking about how good it is. Then I think, "It can't get any better, so it has to start getting worse." Then I start thinking, "I'm going to lose it." Then I lose it and start missing notes and hitting the wrong string and fall out of rhythm.
There. Now everyone will take it as their cue to leave when I turn up at a session.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
I think the closest I've come to what Danny was talking about in his opening post is when I'm playing for set dancers. I'm not then really aware of playing, except afterwards when I realise that a set of reels has just been played far quicker than in a session and I didn't fall over, which I probably would have in a session at that speed. What I am aware of is the dancing, which I'm watching all the time, and the nod or call from the leader to indicate a change of tune or that the end of the dance is approaching.
Trevor
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Ok I will join in again - I just reread Chris's 1st post - and yes that's it. It's the *now* moment. You're living inside the tune. Engrossed within it but not trying (or concentrating!) As all those Zen guys keep on saying, it can't be adequately expressed in words. Maybe that's why I didn't think any more could be said....but it's definitely a player's thing...punters couldn't get it (unless they'd be Buddhists, basketballists, baseballers, or maybe even distance runners!)
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Hmmm...I suspect most people experience being in the zone when they do something that really engages them, whether it's sports, exercise, work, music, some other art form, etc. So punters may not know what it feels like in a session, but they've likely felt it in other settings. I've entered the zone in nearly every sport I've ever played, but also while playing music, writing, target shooting (the zen practice of archery, where you don't aim the arrow, but simply release it and let it hit the target), snorkeling, skipping rocks, making a snowman.... Maybe there are different levels of the zone, but I don't think it's the exclusive domain of the "serious" student only.
Martina Navratilova said she had a mantra to keep her in the zone in big tennis matches. When the pressure rose, she'd ask herself two questions, answering each in turn: "Where am I? Here. What time is it? Now."
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Oh, yes I've been there. Sometimes it's with the music. Mostly thought it's when I'm working on some other hands on visual creative project. Painting or drawing or sewing, that kind of thing. When it happens, hours go by like minutes and I forget to eat--that's *really* in the zone!
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
This is actually important stuff. I don't know the notes that go together to play, say, Jackie Colmans. I sort of know the tune, and when I want to go into another tune from there, I need to have a 'belief' that I know the second tune, not a knowledge of the notes that make up that second tune. This is more pronounced at a session where I am not an accepted musician. It's all down to self-belief, and the ability to float within what you know, and a willingless to believe that what you have to say (musically) will add to the session.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Mike - I don't know if you can call Zen a religion, really - more an attitude.
Ottery - I like your point - so is playing this (or any) stuff a means of crossing from a thought process into a concrete reality (if a set of tunes may thus be considered)?
Will - yes, of course, punters may not be punters in their own specialist field - quite right to correct me there - but I was thinking wrt this music. Also the zone is very accessible to those who play music - you're producing a series of sounds, almost instantaneously as you think them....I wish I could make this point more clearly - maybe that's why it all gets a bit mystic at this point......instant Karma!
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Danny, there may well be parallels between the states of mind. I don't think it's necessary to invoke a supernatural cause for any particular state of mind, but then you were not in fact doing this, were you? Anyway, the buzz you get when cruising along in a tune without apparently have to think too much about it has many possible parallels. Maybe tennis players experience a similar thing. Having done the hard work and concentration to learn all the strokes and techniques, they can then string together a game with apparent ease, not needing to think too much about the mechanics of what they're doing and just enjoying the game.
Chris, pleased to meet you; I have to confess my vision was one of a group of oranged gowned bald men with flutes & fiddle, sitting round a table full of pints of Guiness. Thanks for bursting my preconceptions!
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Martin - Supernatural?!?!
I think chris might be shaking his head in disbelief if you think Zen is supernatural.
Maybe get a hold of one of those "Teach Yourself ..." books or "Zen Made Easy" kinda thing - they're usually good fun to read whilst being very informative. (If you ever feel the need - now we've aroused your curiosity!)
The rest of what you say seems about right though!
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Isn't Zen a branch of Buddhism? I was simply doubting any supernatural (i.e. non-naturalistic, mystic, or whatever) cause of any state of mind. My first experience of it was not while playing, but sitting in the middle of four fiddlers who were really 'going for it'. There seemed to be a deep resonance inside me. That could of course be also explained by the quantity of black stuff inside me, who knows?
If I ever feel the need to start gazing at my own naval (as opposed to that of the scantily dressed fiddler who is *never* at our sessions), I'll be in touch.
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
conway, also pleased to me you i am a a buddhist and piper/banjo player. I have seen the similarity between meditation and playing music. In meditation the practice ios to attain a state of non-concentrating awareness, free from cenceptual thought, and this is a natural thing not supernatural... I guess what happens when you find yourself playing freely is liek this, you have practicied so much that you no longer need to concentrate to perform the action, but your mind is free to be aware of the beauty of the music as it comes out of you almost effortless. and that is when the big kick comes in! even better when you are ornamenting and a varying the music at will, for me this still only happens rarely and with tunes i really know. but it is what we are all trying to get to.
In meditation we are developing teh same bliisful state of mind through develping our capacity for compassion for all other life... pretty amazing too!
Happy christmas friends!
Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Just to broaden viewpoints from the Christian Christmassy view of things we have stuffed down our psyches at this time of year. I hope this hijack of the season is not too unwelcome.
I know some Buddhists - the converted type, English people, very nice, read all the scripts (and scriptures!), and I've read a few Buddhism bits and pieces myself...blah, blah. This isn't going to be an evangelical religious post, so don't click off this thread. Not yet.
But they maintain - and I've kindov intuitively arrived at this conclusion myself - also the kinda thing Kevin Burke put on the front page of his website as a quote - can't remember exactly wot 'e said - but when you're really digging into a tune, you're not thinking about anything else, not thinking about anything, really. Just going for it.
Just really going for it.
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Now now - nurse is coming; get back to the ward and take your pills.
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Conway
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Conway
Budding young eight key Ormiston flute player, started playing flute in 1998 and still have lots to learn. Living in Cardiff, playing mainly Irish stuff (yes we get some stick for that, now and then) but with an interest in Welsh tunes as well.
"still have lots to learn" - that's the bit I like. Hang on in there son.
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
I'm doing no such thing. Ohmmmmm.........
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
See what I mean? Shaman you, nurse emily.
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Danny,
I don't suppose you ever followed American basketball, but if you did, you perhaps remember seeing Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls driving to the basket -- his tongue dangled out and flapped as he ran, and you could just tell, for him, there was nothing -- no crowd, no opponents -- just him and the basket.
Or American baseball. They say Ted Williams could read the print on the ball as it was fast-pitched to him.
I don't think athletes have a lock on that phenomenon any more than musicians do. It's a goal, eh?
Paul S.
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by cuchulain54
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Sounds like you're talking about "being in the zone" - when the rest of the world ceases to exists, and it's just you, the instrument and the music (not necessarily in that order
I have this happen a couple of times, although not in session, but when I'm practising. One night I spent four hours on the same tune, not reaslising that so much time had passed.
For me the key is to play music that reaches out and grabs me; not any old tune will do
Just a few random nuerons firing
Seasons Greetings.
Morgana
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Ptollemy
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
"I don't suppose you ever followed American basketball, but if you did, you perhaps remember seeing Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls driving to the basket -- his tongue dangled out and flapped as he ran, and you could just tell, for him, there was nothing -- no crowd, no opponents -- just him and the basket."
Michael had a beautiful quote at the press conference following his last game with the Bulls, when, in the last 6 seconds of the game, he'd taken an inbounds pass, gone up for a jump shot, and made it, handing the Bulls the championship. At the press conference, when somebody asked him what he'd been thinking about, he said "Well, it's kinda like that Zen thing that Phil (Jackson, then-coach of the Bulls, and a practicing Buddhist) talks about--where time slows down, and you're just concentrating, and there's just right now."
OT: Alllow me to recommend a nice book by Zen student (Katagiri Roshi lineage) and writing teacher Natalie Goldberg: "Writing Down the Bones." She describes her teacher Katagiri saying to her: "make writing your spiritual practice." That book had a profound impact on my own musical development. I still do bows before my morning practice sessions.
chris smith
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Another great book is "Zen Guitar" by Philip Toshio Sudo, which I think applies to most instruments. For more infor check out: http://www.maui.net/~zen_gtr/
Cheers
Morgana
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Ptollemy
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
A *lot* to learn. I've never met any Buddhists (to speak to), and never seen/heard any playing ITM. I await *that* revelation with anticipation.
Maertin
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Conway
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Oops, one too many "e's" in that post!
Martin
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Conway
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Hmm...
"But they maintain - and I've kindov intuitively arrived at this conclusion myself - also the kinda thing Kevin Burke put on the front page of his website as a quote - can't remember exactly wot 'e said - but when you're really digging into a tune, you're not thinking about anything else, not thinking about anything, really. Just going for it."
And to think I thought I was just concentrating.
Dave
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Martin - I'm not saying you have to be a buddhist to play this stuff, or anything like that - just parallelling that state of mind, and Dave, that state of mind is exactly the opposite of concentrating, just letting it happen.
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
The problem is, when the crack's 90, and the tunes are flowing saliva from a rabid ferret's mouth, and I'm 'just going for it', sooner or later I invariably start thinking about how good it is. Then I think, "It can't get any better, so it has to start getting worse." Then I start thinking, "I'm going to lose it." Then I lose it and start missing notes and hitting the wrong string and fall out of rhythm.
There. Now everyone will take it as their cue to leave when I turn up at a session.
# Posted on December 19th 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
"A *lot* to learn. I've never met any Buddhists (to speak to), and never seen/heard any playing ITM. I await *that* revelation with anticipation."
Pleased to meet you.
Now you have!
chris smith
# Posted on December 20th 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
I think the closest I've come to what Danny was talking about in his opening post is when I'm playing for set dancers. I'm not then really aware of playing, except afterwards when I realise that a set of reels has just been played far quicker than in a session and I didn't fall over, which I probably would have in a session at that speed. What I am aware of is the dancing, which I'm watching all the time, and the nod or call from the leader to indicate a change of tune or that the end of the dance is approaching.
Trevor
# Posted on December 20th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Ok I will join in again - I just reread Chris's 1st post - and yes that's it. It's the *now* moment. You're living inside the tune. Engrossed within it but not trying (or concentrating!) As all those Zen guys keep on saying, it can't be adequately expressed in words. Maybe that's why I didn't think any more could be said....but it's definitely a player's thing...punters couldn't get it (unless they'd be Buddhists, basketballists, baseballers, or maybe even distance runners!)
# Posted on December 20th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Hmmm...I suspect most people experience being in the zone when they do something that really engages them, whether it's sports, exercise, work, music, some other art form, etc. So punters may not know what it feels like in a session, but they've likely felt it in other settings. I've entered the zone in nearly every sport I've ever played, but also while playing music, writing, target shooting (the zen practice of archery, where you don't aim the arrow, but simply release it and let it hit the target), snorkeling, skipping rocks, making a snowman.... Maybe there are different levels of the zone, but I don't think it's the exclusive domain of the "serious" student only.
Martina Navratilova said she had a mantra to keep her in the zone in big tennis matches. When the pressure rose, she'd ask herself two questions, answering each in turn: "Where am I? Here. What time is it? Now."
# Posted on December 20th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Tunes in the ether
Ah, possession is nine-tenths
Dwell in the spaces
# Posted on December 20th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Oh, yes I've been there. Sometimes it's with the music. Mostly thought it's when I'm working on some other hands on visual creative project. Painting or drawing or sewing, that kind of thing. When it happens, hours go by like minutes and I forget to eat--that's *really* in the zone!
# Posted on December 20th 2003 by Andee
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
When the pressure rose, she'd ask herself two questions, answering each in turn: "Where am I? Here. What time is it? Now."
Cool.
# Posted on December 21st 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
This is actually important stuff. I don't know the notes that go together to play, say, Jackie Colmans. I sort of know the tune, and when I want to go into another tune from there, I need to have a 'belief' that I know the second tune, not a knowledge of the notes that make up that second tune. This is more pronounced at a session where I am not an accepted musician. It's all down to self-belief, and the ability to float within what you know, and a willingless to believe that what you have to say (musically) will add to the session.
# Posted on December 21st 2003 by Ottery
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
We had a post to this a few weeks back - but without the religious conotation. That sort of "session playing out of body experience"
Sometimes you feel like you could just leave yourself playing there and go up and stand at the bar - or is it just me?
Anyway - who's round is it?
Christmas Eve or Marble Arch - I don't know!!!
# Posted on December 21st 2003 by mikemcdaid
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Mike - I don't know if you can call Zen a religion, really - more an attitude.
Ottery - I like your point - so is playing this (or any) stuff a means of crossing from a thought process into a concrete reality (if a set of tunes may thus be considered)?
Will - yes, of course, punters may not be punters in their own specialist field - quite right to correct me there - but I was thinking wrt this music. Also the zone is very accessible to those who play music - you're producing a series of sounds, almost instantaneously as you think them....I wish I could make this point more clearly - maybe that's why it all gets a bit mystic at this point......instant Karma!
# Posted on December 21st 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Danny, there may well be parallels between the states of mind. I don't think it's necessary to invoke a supernatural cause for any particular state of mind, but then you were not in fact doing this, were you? Anyway, the buzz you get when cruising along in a tune without apparently have to think too much about it has many possible parallels. Maybe tennis players experience a similar thing. Having done the hard work and concentration to learn all the strokes and techniques, they can then string together a game with apparent ease, not needing to think too much about the mechanics of what they're doing and just enjoying the game.
Chris, pleased to meet you; I have to confess my vision was one of a group of oranged gowned bald men with flutes & fiddle, sitting round a table full of pints of Guiness. Thanks for bursting my preconceptions!
Martin
# Posted on December 22nd 2003 by Conway
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Martin - Supernatural?!?!
I think chris might be shaking his head in disbelief if you think Zen is supernatural.
Maybe get a hold of one of those "Teach Yourself ..." books or "Zen Made Easy" kinda thing - they're usually good fun to read whilst being very informative. (If you ever feel the need - now we've aroused your curiosity!)
The rest of what you say seems about right though!
Anyway have a good Christmas!!
# Posted on December 22nd 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Isn't Zen a branch of Buddhism? I was simply doubting any supernatural (i.e. non-naturalistic, mystic, or whatever) cause of any state of mind. My first experience of it was not while playing, but sitting in the middle of four fiddlers who were really 'going for it'. There seemed to be a deep resonance inside me. That could of course be also explained by the quantity of black stuff inside me, who knows?
If I ever feel the need to start gazing at my own naval (as opposed to that of the scantily dressed fiddler who is *never* at our sessions), I'll be in touch.
Best wishes,
Martin
# Posted on December 22nd 2003 by Conway
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
conway, also pleased to me you i am a a buddhist and piper/banjo player. I have seen the similarity between meditation and playing music. In meditation the practice ios to attain a state of non-concentrating awareness, free from cenceptual thought, and this is a natural thing not supernatural... I guess what happens when you find yourself playing freely is liek this, you have practicied so much that you no longer need to concentrate to perform the action, but your mind is free to be aware of the beauty of the music as it comes out of you almost effortless. and that is when the big kick comes in! even better when you are ornamenting and a varying the music at will, for me this still only happens rarely and with tunes i really know. but it is what we are all trying to get to.
In meditation we are developing teh same bliisful state of mind through develping our capacity for compassion for all other life... pretty amazing too!
Happy christmas friends!
# Posted on December 22nd 2003 by mackers
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
mackers, thanks a lot, that is exactly how I think of the music and the state of mind I reach whilst playing it, well put!!
# Posted on December 23rd 2003 by Aine Ni Scully
Re: Zen and the Art of Maintaining a Cycle of Motoring Sessions
Yep, that was great, mackers - only a regular practitioner of both activities could have put it so well. Thanks.
# Posted on December 23rd 2003 by Rudall the time