there was a thread a couple weeks ago, and in it I thought I ran across the idea that with variation and all, when you boil it all down, there were only seven basic reels
That reminds me of what listeners here in Germany often say at the end of our sessions: "Your music was so fantastic. But why do you play the same melody over and over again??" X-D
I heard a theory that there are only 33 plots for any narrative and any movie, play, or book you ever encounter is a variation of one of those 33 possible plots.
It's probably somewhere between a few thousand to several thousand. When I saw that comment I made a list of (7) tunes which might morph into other tunes. The Shaskeen, The Cliffs, Comb Your Hair & Curl it, New Mown Meadows, O'Keefe's Slide (yeah, that one), Battle of Aurghim, & Farewell to Whiskey.
I had too much time on my hands that day. But thanks, now I can burn this scrap of paper.
This is a theory I have been considering for a while.
I’m sorry if this seems a bit bonkers or like a musicology nightmare!
But bare with me! (or is the phrase ‘bear’ with me)
If one looks (listens?!) to a tune it works on many levels thus (please excuse my use of ‘diddly’ as a language of music but if you stick with me I’m sure you’ll see what I mean and I know I’m eluding to a jig-like tune):
1. A phrase of a tune with ornaments and knobs et cetera (as may be played by the most experienced and virtuoso of players):
D’didderly didderly didderly did, der didderly didderly doo.
2. Same phrase without o & k’s (as may be played by a standard ‘knows the tunes’ session guy):
Diddly diddly diddly der, diddly diddly doo.
3. Stripped further to basic melodic arch (as may be played by the novice):
Did did did did, did did did.
4. Further simplified to underlying movement (similar to as it would may be be played by an accompanist on harmonium ?! or bowed bass/ ‘cello):
Deeeeeeeeee, deeeeeeeeeeeee.
All above versions are heard at sessions and they all fit together. And there may be a limited and mappable taxonomy to all of this. And it may turn out that there are only seven at stage 4.
How could Farewell to Whisky possibly be considered as "one of the original 7 reels" when it was written by Niel Gow as a slow air? I know it gets played in Ireland as a polka but is there a reel version?
I absolutely subscribe to the theory that there are seven prime reels, and furthermore, that they are in fact descended from one original mitochondrial "Eve" reel originating somewhere in Western Africa.
The one exception being Music for a Boned Farmonium which is some sort of Neanderthal sub-species that developed independently.
As far as stats go Silver Spear, 7 out of 5 Americans struggle with it.
O'Saghan also postulated the tunes all came from one massive "Big Bang" Ceilidh in the late 1800's too. Clearly at odds with much of the Scientific Session community
I heard that there are only 7 Points of Roguery and I've seen the 10 Penny Bit on sale for 30% off. I tore the 42 Pound Cheque into six pieces. I'll stop thi seventually.
Ah, such learned folk we have here. I concur to both of your astute assessments.
Of course, all of this fails to take into account quantum tune theory, first postulated by The O'Neils Bore with his Copenhagen Reel.
The great piper Schrödinger developed this theory further with his parable of the tune in the box. Is it a jig? Is it a reel? It is in fact both, or neither, until the tune is played. If you'll recall, a tune can not be truly ascertained until it is played, and it is indeed the playing of the tune which determines the tune in question.
...this 'singularity' of a reel which was so dense and so unstable, exploded in -- of all places -- Scotland. Diddley is but one of the lingering echos of this cataclysm.
The way my mind crosses up bits of tunes in the same keys, seven sounds about right. One each of D, D myx, Bm, G, Am, Ador, and the seventh is an amorphous blob of unclassifiable Paddy Fahey tunes!
One Reel for Shetlanders and all the trolls,
One Reel for haggis-hunters in the glens,
One Reel for hurley-players chasing goals,
One Reel for Northumbrians chasing hens,
One Reel for Appalachia's hidey-holes,
One Reel for Quebec to do its best,
The other's on a gap-year round the rest:
Seven Reels to rule them all, seven Reels to take effect,
Seven Reels to bring them all, and get them badly wrecked
As soon as I can produce a satisfactory reed theory, I will debate you and your string theory any place, any time. Just haven't come up with the goods yet. Give me time.
It's not like science is going to find in favor of either side any time soon. When I've thought of something, and subsequent science proves it right, if we follow tradition, you can owe me a subscription to Playboy. Agreed?
A flute is like a big hollow string. You change the length by opening valves (either fingers or mechanical) rather than pressing into an object. I wonder what happens if you take a thick block made of the same material as your flute and press it up against it half way down the length. It probably won't move it up an octave but still have an effect on pitch by dulling the vibration at that point.
Atahualpa - According to this gentlemen, your Reed Theory has creationist overtones. Perhaps the Original Reel was not an evolving process, but a creation of a Superior Being - A Divine Spark?
Well, anyone who's going to expound on string theory, should do it from a pulpit. Reed theory, when I finaly get down to working it out, aught not have any thing to do with any diety. That's my hope. God willing, you can see it in mustard soon. Should be a real mind breaker. Watch this space.
OUGHT not to have...Thanks for your gratuitous impression of pipers, jusa. You are, if I'm not mistaken, a banjo player, are you not? [long pause] A banjo player? [longer pause, then slowly and with careful enunciation, asks again] A BANJO PLAYER?
The faithful know that after the Seven Reels were created, along with everything else, on October 23, 4004 BC. In the afternoon, around 4:30.
Heretics began interpreting them in different ways, which led to many Schisms, not to mention silly tune names. Which is why the faithful play them from the sheet music, just as they were handed down from on high. There is Truth, and then there is everything else.
There is a somewhat respectable position along these lines. Samuel Preston Bayard took up the idea of "tune families" that had been developed by Hungarian musicologists and applied it to folk music from the British Isles. He came up with a fairly small number of basic groupings - 56, I think.
But tunes in different metres can belong to the same family, as can tunes in different tempi. Even mode isn't characteristic of a whole family, in general. There will certainly be many more than 7 Bayard families that contain reels.
It's an idea that is taken seriously by many musicologists (i.e. it was not stupid or cranky, just extreme). But I don't think anybody actually agrees with Bayard any more.
Sure, shunning knowlege of such inconvenient things as dark reels, gives you momentary peace and calm. Bury your head in Diddley dogma, for all I care! You can avert your eyes all you want; dark reels aren't going to go away. If only you knew how much of your session is composed of 'em.
Jack - although Bayard's comments seem extreme, I know personally I have become lost and confused in the Sligo Maid/Bag of Spuds/Drunken Landlady/Crosses of Annagh/Down the Broom/Pigeon on the Gate/Congress/Star of Munster/Tommy Coen's tune family many times.
After a few pints those B sections all cross-pollinate in my head.
Well everyone knows that the 7th son of a 7th son is a wizard. Of course the 7th son of a wizard is a warlock which explains why wizards are celibate just like bodhran players (but for different reasons!)
It reminds me or Transformational Grammar (not that I understood it) which breaks all utterances up into chunks of meaning. Musically you could discriminate between long and short runs up and down, jumps, long notes and connections between parts. (7 items!)
Up there, in the long gone comments, I listed 7 ***tunes*** . These weren't 7 ***reels*** They were merely 7 tunes, actually with different rhythms. I just happen to think that I hear bits of each of these tunes in other tunes. Unless you're ceolachan it's not likely you'll be turning "Comb your Hair & Curl it" into a reel.
You all have it wrong. In the beginning the one true Musician, father and inspiration to all music made one reel.
It was a good reel. Faithful and it made the Musician happy, but the reel was lonely. So the Musician took a bit of the one reel, and fashioned the jig, so the reel would not be lonely. From these two all other reels and jigs sprang forth, and multiplied, and this pleased the Musician very much.
are there only seven reels?
are there only seven reels?
there was a thread a couple weeks ago, and in it I thought I ran across the idea that with variation and all, when you boil it all down, there were only seven basic reels
...is there anything really to that?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: are there only seven reels?
Errr... no!
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: are there only seven reels?
Yeah, and it takes 7 years to learn 'em. And there are only 7 seas. And god built the earth in 7 days (with time off for good behaviour of course)
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by llig leahcim
Re: are there only seven reels?
thanks llig, I remembered that very saying
it would be interesting if there were some set of seven primodial reels that begat all the rest
but I prolly wouldn't know those 7 either
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: are there only seven reels?
No, no, no! There are eight. You forgot Music for a Found Harmonium.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Bob himself
Re: are there only seven reels?
That reminds me of what listeners here in Germany often say at the end of our sessions: "Your music was so fantastic. But why do you play the same melody over and over again??" X-D
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by JigsawGreg
Re: are there only seven reels?
7 deadly sins
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by beltane
Re: are there only seven reels?
And I have a tee shirt that says on the 8th day God created the accordion- so it must be true!
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by zippydw
Re: are there only seven reels?
I heard a theory that there are only 33 plots for any narrative and any movie, play, or book you ever encounter is a variation of one of those 33 possible plots.
99% of statistics are also made up.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: are there only seven reels?
maybe it was seven eels?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: are there only seven reels?
It's probably somewhere between a few thousand to several thousand. When I saw that comment I made a list of (7) tunes which might morph into other tunes. The Shaskeen, The Cliffs, Comb Your Hair & Curl it, New Mown Meadows, O'Keefe's Slide (yeah, that one), Battle of Aurghim, & Farewell to Whiskey.
I had too much time on my hands that day. But thanks, now I can burn this scrap of paper.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: are there only seven reels?
nah, thats dwarfs your thinking of.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: are there only seven reels?
thanks random...that's what I thought...out of your seven, the only one I've even heard before is Farewell to Whiskey
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: are there only seven reels?
but there ARE seven basic dwarfs, though, right?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: are there only seven reels?
ever since they got shot of Sparey, yup
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: are there only seven reels?
Say, is this in any way related to that old Bergman movie, The Seventh Reel?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Bob himself
Re: are there only seven reels?
This is a theory I have been considering for a while.
I’m sorry if this seems a bit bonkers or like a musicology nightmare!
But bare with me! (or is the phrase ‘bear’ with me)
If one looks (listens?!) to a tune it works on many levels thus (please excuse my use of ‘diddly’ as a language of music but if you stick with me I’m sure you’ll see what I mean and I know I’m eluding to a jig-like tune):
1. A phrase of a tune with ornaments and knobs et cetera (as may be played by the most experienced and virtuoso of players):
D’didderly didderly didderly did, der didderly didderly doo.
2. Same phrase without o & k’s (as may be played by a standard ‘knows the tunes’ session guy):
Diddly diddly diddly der, diddly diddly doo.
3. Stripped further to basic melodic arch (as may be played by the novice):
Did did did did, did did did.
4. Further simplified to underlying movement (similar to as it would may be be played by an accompanist on harmonium ?! or bowed bass/ ‘cello):
Deeeeeeeeee, deeeeeeeeeeeee.
All above versions are heard at sessions and they all fit together. And there may be a limited and mappable taxonomy to all of this. And it may turn out that there are only seven at stage 4.
OK! Calm down and carry on!
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by yhaalhouse
Re: are there only seven reels?
How could Farewell to Whisky possibly be considered as "one of the original 7 reels" when it was written by Niel Gow as a slow air? I know it gets played in Ireland as a polka but is there a reel version?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: are there only seven reels?
No, Ali. There is a fake version.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: are there only seven reels?
You mean like "Farewell to Bourbon"?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: are there only seven reels?
I absolutely subscribe to the theory that there are seven prime reels, and furthermore, that they are in fact descended from one original mitochondrial "Eve" reel originating somewhere in Western Africa.
The one exception being Music for a Boned Farmonium which is some sort of Neanderthal sub-species that developed independently.
As far as stats go Silver Spear, 7 out of 5 Americans struggle with it.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: are there only seven reels?
I thought there were billions and billions? Didn't the blind harper-astronomer Carlagh O'Saghan once state something about the primordial tune ooze?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: are there only seven reels?
O'Saghan also postulated the tunes all came from one massive "Big Bang" Ceilidh in the late 1800's too. Clearly at odds with much of the Scientific Session community
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: are there only seven reels?
Before that, there was only one, very dense reel.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
...very dense and compact....and unstable.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
I heard that there are only 7 Points of Roguery and I've seen the 10 Penny Bit on sale for 30% off. I tore the 42 Pound Cheque into six pieces. I'll stop thi seventually.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by GaryAMartin
Re: are there only seven reels?
Ah, such learned folk we have here. I concur to both of your astute assessments.
Of course, all of this fails to take into account quantum tune theory, first postulated by The O'Neils Bore with his Copenhagen Reel.
The great piper Schrödinger developed this theory further with his parable of the tune in the box. Is it a jig? Is it a reel? It is in fact both, or neither, until the tune is played. If you'll recall, a tune can not be truly ascertained until it is played, and it is indeed the playing of the tune which determines the tune in question.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: are there only seven reels?
To be fair, some skeptics say that Schrödinger had crap rhythm anyway, and all of this quantum fluffery was a sham to hide his failings.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: are there only seven reels?
...this 'singularity' of a reel which was so dense and so unstable, exploded in -- of all places -- Scotland. Diddley is but one of the lingering echos of this cataclysm.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
The way my mind crosses up bits of tunes in the same keys, seven sounds about right. One each of D, D myx, Bm, G, Am, Ador, and the seventh is an amorphous blob of unclassifiable Paddy Fahey tunes!
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by ElaineT
Re: are there only seven reels?
All tunes are inherently unstable...when played well.
(And some sessions are black holes....)
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: are there only seven reels?
At the sub-atomic level, your tune could be a tango; or a pitcher of margaritas for all I know.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
But what's with all this old-school quantum stuff? Surely we of all people should be meta-metaphorizing in terms of string theory.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: are there only seven reels?
Indeed Professor Harmon, but doesn't string theory by necessity exclude our wind powered associates? Should we not strive for a unified tune theorem?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: are there only seven reels?
One Reel for Shetlanders and all the trolls,
One Reel for haggis-hunters in the glens,
One Reel for hurley-players chasing goals,
One Reel for Northumbrians chasing hens,
One Reel for Appalachia's hidey-holes,
One Reel for Quebec to do its best,
The other's on a gap-year round the rest:
Seven Reels to rule them all, seven Reels to take effect,
Seven Reels to bring them all, and get them badly wrecked
In the land of Murphys, where the brain-cells go!
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by nicholas
Re: are there only seven reels?
As soon as I can produce a satisfactory reed theory, I will debate you and your string theory any place, any time. Just haven't come up with the goods yet. Give me time.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: are there only seven reels?
It's not like science is going to find in favor of either side any time soon. When I've thought of something, and subsequent science proves it right, if we follow tradition, you can owe me a subscription to Playboy. Agreed?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
Om mani padme hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: are there only seven reels?
A flute is like a big hollow string. You change the length by opening valves (either fingers or mechanical) rather than pressing into an object. I wonder what happens if you take a thick block made of the same material as your flute and press it up against it half way down the length. It probably won't move it up an octave but still have an effect on pitch by dulling the vibration at that point.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: are there only seven reels?
This would mean that Paddy Fahey only wrote one tune, and it's called Paddy Fahey's, nevermind our versions might not match
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: are there only seven reels?
Atahualpa, I presume you mean Playboy of the Western World?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: are there only seven reels?
Atahualpa - According to this gentlemen, your Reed Theory has creationist overtones. Perhaps the Original Reel was not an evolving process, but a creation of a Superior Being - A Divine Spark?
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/94-evolutionary-theory-a-reed-in-the-wind
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: are there only seven reels?
Seven Reels....I've been playing the same four reels for years, now you tell me there are three more to learn....I give up !
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Free Reed
Re: are there only seven reels?
Well, anyone who's going to expound on string theory, should do it from a pulpit. Reed theory, when I finaly get down to working it out, aught not have any thing to do with any diety. That's my hope. God willing, you can see it in mustard soon. Should be a real mind breaker. Watch this space.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
Atahualpa - Typical piper's response -
"Hang on guys, I'll play a tune in a minute - lemme just adjust this chanter and... oh crap - NOW what fell off...?"
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: are there only seven reels?
OUGHT not to have...Thanks for your gratuitous impression of pipers, jusa. You are, if I'm not mistaken, a banjo player, are you not? [long pause] A banjo player? [longer pause, then slowly and with careful enunciation, asks again] A BANJO PLAYER?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
I thought there was only one:
"One reel to rule them all, one reel to find them
One reel to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Unless I'm confusing reels with something else.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: are there only seven reels?
You infidels are going to burn in heck.
The faithful know that after the Seven Reels were created, along with everything else, on October 23, 4004 BC. In the afternoon, around 4:30.
Heretics began interpreting them in different ways, which led to many Schisms, not to mention silly tune names. Which is why the faithful play them from the sheet music, just as they were handed down from on high. There is Truth, and then there is everything else.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: are there only seven reels?
There is a somewhat respectable position along these lines. Samuel Preston Bayard took up the idea of "tune families" that had been developed by Hungarian musicologists and applied it to folk music from the British Isles. He came up with a fairly small number of basic groupings - 56, I think.
But tunes in different metres can belong to the same family, as can tunes in different tempi. Even mode isn't characteristic of a whole family, in general. There will certainly be many more than 7 Bayard families that contain reels.
It's an idea that is taken seriously by many musicologists (i.e. it was not stupid or cranky, just extreme). But I don't think anybody actually agrees with Bayard any more.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Jack Campin
Re: are there only seven reels?
Sure, shunning knowlege of such inconvenient things as dark reels, gives you momentary peace and calm. Bury your head in Diddley dogma, for all I care! You can avert your eyes all you want; dark reels aren't going to go away. If only you knew how much of your session is composed of 'em.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
That was addressed to Ms. Batlady, BTW.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
I only allow pure thoughts in the Temple of Diddley, AQ.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: are there only seven reels?
Well yes, OK then. We are shamed Batlady. I hangeth my scienfitical head.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: are there only seven reels?
Jack - although Bayard's comments seem extreme, I know personally I have become lost and confused in the Sligo Maid/Bag of Spuds/Drunken Landlady/Crosses of Annagh/Down the Broom/Pigeon on the Gate/Congress/Star of Munster/Tommy Coen's tune family many times.
After a few pints those B sections all cross-pollinate in my head.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: are there only seven reels?
Seven stars and seven stones and one white tree...
But seriously, I thought it was the number 42 that was most important...
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by AlBrown
Re: are there only seven reels?
42 divided by 6 = ......
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: are there only seven reels?
I always thought they were all the same tune played over and over again. Can someone direct me to the sheetmusic for the other 6 songs?
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Dr. Dow
Re: are there only seven reels?
Well everyone knows that the 7th son of a 7th son is a wizard. Of course the 7th son of a wizard is a warlock which explains why wizards are celibate just like bodhran players (but for different reasons!)
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: are there only seven reels?
It reminds me or Transformational Grammar (not that I understood it) which breaks all utterances up into chunks of meaning. Musically you could discriminate between long and short runs up and down, jumps, long notes and connections between parts. (7 items!)
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by kuec
Re: are there only seven reels?
Apparently the seventh son is supposed to be invested with special healing powers and/or Second Sight.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: are there only seven reels?
and they usually end up making the tea.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Eòsaph
Re: are there only seven reels?
Up there, in the long gone comments, I listed 7 ***tunes*** . These weren't 7 ***reels*** They were merely 7 tunes, actually with different rhythms. I just happen to think that I hear bits of each of these tunes in other tunes. Unless you're ceolachan it's not likely you'll be turning "Comb your Hair & Curl it" into a reel.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: are there only seven reels?
You all have it wrong. In the beginning the one true Musician, father and inspiration to all music made one reel.
It was a good reel. Faithful and it made the Musician happy, but the reel was lonely. So the Musician took a bit of the one reel, and fashioned the jig, so the reel would not be lonely. From these two all other reels and jigs sprang forth, and multiplied, and this pleased the Musician very much.
# Posted on September 3rd 2010 by banshee misfortune
Re: are there only seven reels?
OK, now recite the begats.
# Posted on September 3rd 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: are there only seven reels?
In the Beginning, there was Bb:
http://www.a-440.net/b-flat/b-flat.html
Maybe the Scots knew something we didn't when they came up with the Highland Bagpipes!
# Posted on September 3rd 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: are there only seven reels?
reely?
# Posted on September 4th 2010 by Choons
Re: are there only seven reels?
Evidently Winster Gallop, Jimmy Allen and Salmon Tails are 3 of them.
# Posted on September 5th 2010 by geoffwright