Tish, I've got a really tense bow arm too--I'll have to try that trick...
Also, one of those "Aha!" moments could happen just because the right person said it at the right time, Even if you've been told it before a million times and intellectually knew it already.
For example, my teacher has been telling me that I really don't need to learn a bunch of new tunes, that for me that was the easy part, and that I really needed to work up what I had and get really good and that a big part of that was playing slowly. "Now don't play it any faster than that!" she always says after each lesson. I agreed with her, I *knew* it on an intellectual level, but it somehow didn't really make a dent in me. Then I went to a session and a really good fiddler, also a teacher said to me in response to me saying I needed to learn to play faster, "No, you don't really. It may sound funny, but you really need to learn to play everything slowly. A lot of people who play fast don't really even know what they're doing." Yes, I had been pretty much told that before--but somehow, this time it hit me at the cellular level and I knew it in my bones, not just my head.
Let see - my fiddle teacher tells me to "now make it kick a..." a lot.
I think all the time of the day she told me my playing was "prissy" - that gets my bow arm going!
These help me with skittery bows:
"Once more, now with the bow ON the strings." from Liz Carroll - or "Keep all the tires on the road" (same problem) from Tess again.
And then there is "channeling" your favorite player or the one with the bow arm etc. you covet etc . ( I guess that means visualizing really) .
Regarding not playing fast, a quote I overheard was "... all those beutifully crafted notes, and you go and blow them away". Making the effort to slow down really does help to concentrate the mind on technique *and* the tune.
You don't "hold" the fiddle, you just stand under it. (I think it was Kevin Burke who suggested that.)
On bowing: "Look, it's very simple. The bow goes up and it goes down. There aren't many other options." (This one is definitely Kevin Burke, at a 2001 workshop.)
On filling a flute: "It takes no more air than a spirited conversation. Breathe as you would breathe when you talk or sing. And make your lips the same shape as the far edge of the blow hole."
On supporting the air column for flute: "Cough. Feel that fist of muscle down below your belly button? That's where the support comes from. Now yawn. Feel how open your throat and mouth are? That's where your resonance and tone come from." (Paraphrasing Michael DeBost's book, 'The Simple Flute.')
My fiddle teacher told me that there are a finite number of wrong notes one will play vs the infinite number of correct ones. Surely I must be getting closer to the end of the wrong ones!
So many tunes have similar or identical phrases, find the phrase that *makes* the tune, & build the rest of the tune around that. Definitely helps your organization in terms of learning, too.
Here's one for the banjo players....In respect of a cure for pick deathgrip, I read somewhere that a famous player had said:
"If your pick is not on the floor then you aren't holding it too loosely"
This certainly helped me ease up and relieved a lot of tension in my picking hand, even if it seems counter intuitive given the force you are hitting the strings with.
Here's a second hand Kevin Burke that I always try to keep in mind on bowing patterns: "I'm not sure that you understand -- it doesn't *matter* which way you bow it!" (From thread http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/132, more or less.)
Actually, I don't think I have any particular one huge breakthrough moment or realization, it's all just sort of this huge big blur of finding out that I'm total sh*te... *grin*
Oh, and BTW, sooner or later this thread will pass beyond the first few screens of the threads. At that point, it'll be easier to search for the thread than go a-hunting it. Here's my best tip for finding a thread you desperately need for a tip or story or whatever.
Find, somewhere in the thread, some phrase that will stick in your head, and remember that in relation to this thread that you know you'll want to find again. For this thread, you might try remembering the phrase, "really neat little trick" from Tish's first post. For the story above, I remembered the two words "gently said", because that's how Burke said it. Put that in as your search string, and the engine will bring up all the threads with that in it.
Much easier than searching through the thousands of threads in the index.
Here's one for whistle. In the early stages I had fingers flying all over the place...well, okay, "flying" might be overstating it a bit. More like all of them lifting off every time any finger so much as twitched. And then a whistle playing friend told me to leave fingers down unless they interfered with getting the pitch you want. For example, in the entire tune of the Whinny Hills of Leitrim, you need lift your right index finger only once--it can stay down the rest of the time. This helps hold the whistle steady and reduces extraneous movements. Much more efficient whistling. A little experimenting soon revealed lots of places/tunes this holds true.
No records of mandolinists receiving great insights from instructors eh?
That's because mandolinists are so deeply thoughtful, insightful, enquiring, experimental and generally just downright clever that they don't struggle for years with something not going right, they just work things out for themselves without going to Zen Masters for inspiration.
Niall Keegan suggested imagining your fingers being attached to the ceiling by elastic bands (no, seriously), to help achieve a 'bouncier' fingering style on the flute/whistle. It didn't work for me, either.
Mary MacNamara showing me how to play two of the same notes (i.e. G G) using the bellows rather than lifting my finger from the Concertina button was a big thing for me (as a beginner). Mary also said to imagine that bellows was moving in the same direction (for Anglo concertina) to achieve smooth transition from one note to the next... I'm still working on that one
You have to remember to detach the elastic bands when you go to the bar too, otherwise pints start jumping off tables and people become convinced that there is some supernatural explanation.
Funny how these things work sometimes: I had an epiphany, if you will, a couple of years ago about my guitar style -- and it came about through a festival workshop led by a guy who made it clear from the start that he wasn't at all a fan of the particular style I play.
I should mention that this workshop was geared more toward flatpicking, which is not something I tend to do on guitar. But during the week the workshop took place, he got me thinking more than I ever had about my approach to accompaniment, and refining my technique so that it would have a certain purpose and clarity instead of a "I'll just try this and see if it works" character.
So on the one hand, I didn't exactly "learn" anything from him -- I still don't flatpick much, and I continue to use the style he doesn't favor. But in terms of seeing a bigger picture, oh yeah, job well done.
Was having problems with sore shoulder, elbow and thumb when I first started the fiddle, and from all the good stuff here (thanks Will ) found out that it was just because I was very tense. So I try to really relax, and if I get sore but still have time to practice I swap to mandolin for a bit and then return to the fiddle. I was continually loosing the plectrum so started to keep it between my lips - and here is the bingo moment - I found that I was really clenching my teeth and if I kept the plectrum gently between my front teeth, my left arm was much more relaxed.
Whilst not expecting this advice to be used by all fellow fledgling fiddlers ( the chin piece can get a bit drooly ) I was not aware of how much teeth clenching I was doing and how it affected my whole posture.
Aw, gaaarsh Clunk, *blush, blush.*
That's a great point about the pick in the mouth--I too used to clench my jaw when I played fiddle, and it wears out both shoulders really quickly. And it's funny you mention drooling cuz that's when I knew I was making progress with staying relaxed...I was drooling all over the fiddle.
I've found that learning to play flute also helps in keeping the jaw and neck relaxed--it just feels right while you're breathing fully into the flute, so it's become a habit that I associate with playing the tunes on any instrument.
Singers must have lots of these - I'd love to know what the secret is of singing as I'd love to be able to do a song or two. But at the moment I sound like a goat that's got caught on a barb-wire fence (if that image works for you). Any tips on singing stylishly, anyone?
For the harp playing (may go for other instruments) the one I found most useful is imagining how to accent the beats as if I were helping dancers bounce off the floor. That one helped me get away from accenting first beats of the bar all the time.
I think the best images are ones which work which you can then almost forget about, they work so well.
Speaking of goat... Joe Quinn, yer a sad disappointment to me, pop up on the every other thread with "what about the bodhran" and where are ye now? Haven't heard from any goatwhackers yet - don't bodhran players have bingo moments?
Do they have bongo moments instead? (Ow! sorry, someone had to say it.)
Still no accordionists, pipers, zouk players... it's really interesting to find out about how all these instruments are played in trad and some of these "aha" moments provide a bit of an insider view... more please!!
Tips, tricks & mental pix
Tips, tricks & mental pix
Sometimes a really simple tip that just
# Posted on December 3rd 2003 by Tish
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
A little mouse in one hand and a little bird in the other?
# Posted on December 3rd 2003 by ...
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
(On trying to get a note out of the flute for the first time)
Pretend you're in pub, you've got a bottle of beer, you're bored, and you've already scratched the label off. Now.. blow.
# Posted on December 3rd 2003 by Q
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Good one, Q!
Tish, I've got a really tense bow arm too--I'll have to try that trick...
Also, one of those "Aha!" moments could happen just because the right person said it at the right time, Even if you've been told it before a million times and intellectually knew it already.
For example, my teacher has been telling me that I really don't need to learn a bunch of new tunes, that for me that was the easy part, and that I really needed to work up what I had and get really good and that a big part of that was playing slowly. "Now don't play it any faster than that!" she always says after each lesson. I agreed with her, I *knew* it on an intellectual level, but it somehow didn't really make a dent in me. Then I went to a session and a really good fiddler, also a teacher said to me in response to me saying I needed to learn to play faster, "No, you don't really. It may sound funny, but you really need to learn to play everything slowly. A lot of people who play fast don't really even know what they're doing." Yes, I had been pretty much told that before--but somehow, this time it hit me at the cellular level and I knew it in my bones, not just my head.
# Posted on December 3rd 2003 by Andee
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Oh, when I said "get really good", I meant to say "get those tunes really good".
# Posted on December 3rd 2003 by Andee
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Let see - my fiddle teacher tells me to "now make it kick a..." a lot.
I think all the time of the day she told me my playing was "prissy" - that gets my bow arm going!
These help me with skittery bows:
"Once more, now with the bow ON the strings." from Liz Carroll - or "Keep all the tires on the road" (same problem) from Tess again.
And then there is "channeling" your favorite player or the one with the bow arm etc. you covet etc . ( I guess that means visualizing really) .
Jennifer
# Posted on December 3rd 2003 by Jenthur
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Regarding not playing fast, a quote I overheard was "... all those beutifully crafted notes, and you go and blow them away". Making the effort to slow down really does help to concentrate the mind on technique *and* the tune.
Martin
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Conway
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
You don't "hold" the fiddle, you just stand under it. (I think it was Kevin Burke who suggested that.)
On bowing: "Look, it's very simple. The bow goes up and it goes down. There aren't many other options." (This one is definitely Kevin Burke, at a 2001 workshop.)
On filling a flute: "It takes no more air than a spirited conversation. Breathe as you would breathe when you talk or sing. And make your lips the same shape as the far edge of the blow hole."
On supporting the air column for flute: "Cough. Feel that fist of muscle down below your belly button? That's where the support comes from. Now yawn. Feel how open your throat and mouth are? That's where your resonance and tone come from." (Paraphrasing Michael DeBost's book, 'The Simple Flute.')
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
My fiddle teacher told me that there are a finite number of wrong notes one will play vs the infinite number of correct ones. Surely I must be getting closer to the end of the wrong ones!
D.
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Ah, Sensei says there are no wrong notes, only unprepared listeners....
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
That sounds much better!!! My interpretation of a particular tune, yeah I do think I will adopt that attitude!
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
From a great flute player, & not Will Harmon ;)
So many tunes have similar or identical phrases, find the phrase that *makes* the tune, & build the rest of the tune around that. Definitely helps your organization in terms of learning, too.
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Here's one for the banjo players....In respect of a cure for pick deathgrip, I read somewhere that a famous player had said:
"If your pick is not on the floor then you aren't holding it too loosely"
This certainly helped me ease up and relieved a lot of tension in my picking hand, even if it seems counter intuitive given the force you are hitting the strings with.
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by nick b
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Here's a second hand Kevin Burke that I always try to keep in mind on bowing patterns: "I'm not sure that you understand -- it doesn't *matter* which way you bow it!" (From thread http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/132, more or less.)
Actually, I don't think I have any particular one huge breakthrough moment or realization, it's all just sort of this huge big blur of finding out that I'm total sh*te... *grin*
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
The Web Ferret says...
Oh, and BTW, sooner or later this thread will pass beyond the first few screens of the threads. At that point, it'll be easier to search for the thread than go a-hunting it. Here's my best tip for finding a thread you desperately need for a tip or story or whatever.
Find, somewhere in the thread, some phrase that will stick in your head, and remember that in relation to this thread that you know you'll want to find again. For this thread, you might try remembering the phrase, "really neat little trick" from Tish's first post. For the story above, I remembered the two words "gently said", because that's how Burke said it. Put that in as your search string, and the engine will bring up all the threads with that in it.
Much easier than searching through the thousands of threads in the index.
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
That's when Andee's beautiful butterfly lands on the end of your nose, Michael 8>)
Great stuff so far, c'mon, there must be more out there, though.
Nothing yet from concertina players, accordionists, mandolinists, guitarists, whistlers, zouk players, goatbashers... only one for banjo so far...
(And nice one on thread-tracking, O Web Ferr- um, Bloodho-, oops, umm, O Princess of Snort!)
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Tish
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Accordionists? "Just say no?"
(JUST KIDDING
Here's one for whistle. In the early stages I had fingers flying all over the place...well, okay, "flying" might be overstating it a bit. More like all of them lifting off every time any finger so much as twitched. And then a whistle playing friend told me to leave fingers down unless they interfered with getting the pitch you want. For example, in the entire tune of the Whinny Hills of Leitrim, you need lift your right index finger only once--it can stay down the rest of the time. This helps hold the whistle steady and reduces extraneous movements. Much more efficient whistling. A little experimenting soon revealed lots of places/tunes this holds true.
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Tish
No records of mandolinists receiving great insights from instructors eh?
That's because mandolinists are so deeply thoughtful, insightful, enquiring, experimental and generally just downright clever that they don't struggle for years with something not going right, they just work things out for themselves without going to Zen Masters for inspiration.
They are modest too.
;o)
Dave
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Niall Keegan suggested imagining your fingers being attached to the ceiling by elastic bands (no, seriously), to help achieve a 'bouncier' fingering style on the flute/whistle. It didn't work for me, either.
Martin
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Conway
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
But then, Dave, they have so much to be modest about, right?
(*snort* :-p)
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Tish
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Mary MacNamara showing me how to play two of the same notes (i.e. G G) using the bellows rather than lifting my finger from the Concertina button was a big thing for me (as a beginner). Mary also said to imagine that bellows was moving in the same direction (for Anglo concertina) to achieve smooth transition from one note to the next... I'm still working on that one
Morgana
# Posted on December 4th 2003 by Ptollemy
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Martin
You have to remember to detach the elastic bands when you go to the bar too, otherwise pints start jumping off tables and people become convinced that there is some supernatural explanation.
Dave
# Posted on December 5th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Funny how these things work sometimes: I had an epiphany, if you will, a couple of years ago about my guitar style -- and it came about through a festival workshop led by a guy who made it clear from the start that he wasn't at all a fan of the particular style I play.
I should mention that this workshop was geared more toward flatpicking, which is not something I tend to do on guitar. But during the week the workshop took place, he got me thinking more than I ever had about my approach to accompaniment, and refining my technique so that it would have a certain purpose and clarity instead of a "I'll just try this and see if it works" character.
So on the one hand, I didn't exactly "learn" anything from him -- I still don't flatpick much, and I continue to use the style he doesn't favor. But in terms of seeing a bigger picture, oh yeah, job well done.
# Posted on December 5th 2003 by sts
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Was having problems with sore shoulder, elbow and thumb when I first started the fiddle, and from all the good stuff here (thanks Will ) found out that it was just because I was very tense. So I try to really relax, and if I get sore but still have time to practice I swap to mandolin for a bit and then return to the fiddle. I was continually loosing the plectrum so started to keep it between my lips - and here is the bingo moment - I found that I was really clenching my teeth and if I kept the plectrum gently between my front teeth, my left arm was much more relaxed.
Whilst not expecting this advice to be used by all fellow fledgling fiddlers ( the chin piece can get a bit drooly ) I was not aware of how much teeth clenching I was doing and how it affected my whole posture.
# Posted on December 5th 2003 by clunk999
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Aw, gaaarsh Clunk, *blush, blush.*
That's a great point about the pick in the mouth--I too used to clench my jaw when I played fiddle, and it wears out both shoulders really quickly. And it's funny you mention drooling cuz that's when I knew I was making progress with staying relaxed...I was drooling all over the fiddle.
I've found that learning to play flute also helps in keeping the jaw and neck relaxed--it just feels right while you're breathing fully into the flute, so it's become a habit that I associate with playing the tunes on any instrument.
# Posted on December 5th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
I thought that drooling was for flute players only ...
Martin
# Posted on December 5th 2003 by Conway
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
About a year ago I listened to a tape of my guitar playing..It was sooo boring! I had no idea before that.It's not as bad anymore.
# Posted on December 6th 2003 by seisflutes
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Singers must have lots of these - I'd love to know what the secret is of singing as I'd love to be able to do a song or two. But at the moment I sound like a goat that's got caught on a barb-wire fence (if that image works for you). Any tips on singing stylishly, anyone?
For the harp playing (may go for other instruments) the one I found most useful is imagining how to accent the beats as if I were helping dancers bounce off the floor. That one helped me get away from accenting first beats of the bar all the time.
I think the best images are ones which work which you can then almost forget about, they work so well.
# Posted on December 6th 2003 by Mark Harmer
PS
Just try forgetting about that goat (see above)
You can't, can you?
Sorry about that.
# Posted on December 6th 2003 by Mark Harmer
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Speaking of goat... Joe Quinn, yer a sad disappointment to me, pop up on the every other thread with "what about the bodhran" and where are ye now? Haven't heard from any goatwhackers yet - don't bodhran players have bingo moments?
Do they have bongo moments instead? (Ow! sorry, someone had to say it.)
Still no accordionists, pipers, zouk players... it's really interesting to find out about how all these instruments are played in trad and some of these "aha" moments provide a bit of an insider view... more please!!
# Posted on December 7th 2003 by Tish
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
They tip goats, don't they?
# Posted on December 7th 2003 by Q
Re: Tips, tricks & mental pix
Only when they're too chicken to pick on someone their own size.
# Posted on December 7th 2003 by Tish