Hello everybody…….mmm, where to begin!
I’m a 38 year old fella whose interested in getting involved in the ‘trad’ music scene. I’m aware that this is “late in the day” to be starting out so I’m approaching it with a little trepidation I must admit. Anyway, if I could get some educated opinion on the following I’d really appreciate it.
(1) Do you think my beginners age is going to give me huge learning problems (i.e.,length of time, etc).
(2) I’ve signed up for some lessons and have chosen the mandolin to begin with. I was wondering whether this was a good choice or not on my behalf (good beginners instrument, etc).
(3) I also like the sound of a banjo and was wondering if its feasible to learn the two instruments in tandem bearing in mind my age.
Please feel free to be frank (or whatever) & cheers for the moment!
your age will have nothing to do with it. I started to learn when I was 42. What is important is your dedication to improving. You keep that up and you will have no problems.
lowhistle
I started fiddle lessons at 37. One guy in a session I used to go to started at 70. Age means nothing. The best instrument is the one you will pick up often. Enjoy!
Welcome. You are sure to get plenty of opinions. Your age is over little concern, only your passion to do it. Choice of instrument is up to you. Choices in instrument usually fall into two categories: a) chosen for what is best for this music or b) chosen because it's an instrument the musician is comfortable with. That is by no means all inclusive. Whistle is always a solid beginners choice because it is so inexpensive and easier to get off the ground than, say, fiddle. I play mando and I'm looking into banjo. I wouldn't suggest starting with banjo only because if you intend to sit in a session and you're just learning, it's hard to keep the banjo buried in the mix as it is going to be among the loudest instruments present. Mando is a good choice if you are partial to plectrum instruments.
I started at 54 (though had played American 'Irish" drinking music for years- very different....um....disciplines.)
Good people here on this site. Use them wisely.
And Ilig. I am surprised at that advice. Having tried bodhran and failed miserably, and having put up with several experienced 'drummers' who thought the cross-over would be natural, it can be a difficult instrument. I would hate to have Mr. BonBons thrown out of the aforementioned session in a week and fifteen minutes
Why thank you michael!
Mrbonbons "length of time" quote is interesting as is your estimate of a "within a week", however I recommend joining in a session straight away, whether you can play or not.
This way you will become a snob quicker, you will learn all the snide jargon and learn to avoid many unpleasant types who turn up.
You will then learn trickier aspects of "THE MUSIC" such as chair stealing, targetted drink spilling, silent farting etc.
In the process you will meet many warm, welcoming players who remember what life was like when they too were learning
Stick with that crew and avoid cranky old men like the plague, they have nothing whatever to offer which is in any way helpful.
1. I'm afraid so. I'm sorry. It's a lot easier to learn this stuff when you're young. It'll be tough going. But if you cut yourself some slack and approach it in the right frame of mind, you can have a lot of fun.
2. Mandolin is a good choice. Go with it.
3. Banjo. No. Stick with the mando. Focus your efforts on it. One instrument at a time.
Oh and forget the bodhran. Llig doesn't really mean it.
You never mentioned if you are already a musician. I am assuming that if you already play that it's probably a stringed instrument if you are considering mando. If you already play music a pletrum instrument, like guitar, then you at least have some rudimentary skills that will help you. If you are starting a musical instrument for the very first time, then yes, it's going to be rough going.
Will your age hamper the speed and ease at which you will gain proficiency? Yes, almost certainly.
Will it limit your enjoyment of the music and the social scene it brings? Only as far as you let it. If you show that you love and respect the music, then those of us who feel the same way will love and respect you. Regardless of your technical ability.
And that respect bit is important. Love for the music is joining in a session and playing away to your hearts content. Respect is not doing it on a banjo.
"get yourself bodhran. You'll be sitting in a session within a week" - on the face of it an uncharacteristic remark from our Michael, but I think, looking beneath the surface, there's rather more to it than that ...
Anyway, this isn't the thread to pursue that particular hare, so I'll just mention my own experience of taking up the fiddle in my 60's, going to sessions a few weeks later ... and not playing a single note in them for the best part of a year. Looking back on it nearly a decade later that certainly wasn't time wasted - I must have absorbed a lot of music, and about the music, just by sitting, listening and watching for 3 hours or so every week.
Another reason why it is inadvisable to jump in to session playing too early is that you (the beginner) are at the stage where you're trying to cope with the mechanics of playing a new instrument and learning new tunes (at session speed!) at the same time in what may not yet be a thoroughly familiar genre. Under those conditions something has to give and it's only too often that good basic technique is the fall guy. Unfortunately, the consequences are often still there years later
If you like the sound of a banjo, play a banjo! You can do both if you want- it's all up to you. It's A Matter OF TIME PUT IN. And at the ripe old age of 38 ya aint got much left( says the 45 year old) so why you wastin' time wondering what the people here think!!! Run away while you can! Play your instruments! Get away from thesession.org while you still can!!!!
You'll have two potential areas of difficulty in learning banjo and mandolin simutaneously: fingering and picking. The fingerings are the same, the fret spacing is very different. This may cause a problem, or it may not, it depends on the player. I don't find it causes a problem, but others do.
The more serious issue will be with the right hand attack. The banjo requires a light touch if you're going to get a fluid sound, while the mandolin needs a much stronger attack if you're going to get any sound out of it at all. If you pay attention to your right hand and concentrate on getting a good sound on each instrument from the start, you'll probably be able to work around this. If you don't you'll be wondering why your banjo always sounds so much better than your mandolin, or vice versa - it'll be because you've unconsciously optimized your playing for one or the other, and you're expecting the same thing to work on the other. There's a big difference - you probably won't want to even use the same picks for the one and the other.
Those are not serious difficulties, and they won't stop you if you really want to learn both instruments, but you should be aware of them so you can deal with them rather than being baffled by them.
The other thing is, it is only acceptable to abbreviate "mandolin" to "mando" if you're an old-time player and hence too stoned to get the whole word out. It's never acceptable in trad music.
I started fiddle as an adult, and I'm no worse a player than the kids I know who've been playing as long as I have. But from my experience, there's one advantage to starting as a child, and it's this:
All beginners sound like cr@p - that's what it means to be a beginner. But children have the advantage of not realizing that they sound like cr@p, so they'll happily soldier on without getting discouraged. By the time they've developed the level of maturity and self-awareness they need to assess how they sound, they generally sound halfway decent.
I enjoyed practising from the minute I picked up the fiddle, but it was a good year and a half before I even slightly enjoyed listening to myself. But if you're prepared to push through those early stages, you'll be fine. (It's not quite as bad as mandolin - a badly played mandolin tends not to sound nearly as bad as a badly played fiddle.)
Tradshark, there's actually very little evidence to prove that older people learn more slowly than youngsters. In fact, more and more, neuroscientists are discovering that our brains remain very "plastic"--able to build new networks between nerve cells and distinct centers of the brain--most of our lives, barring disease or injury.
Age isn't an issue. If you want to learn to play this music, what works is enthusiasm, happy immersion among quality players, latching onto a good mentor, and hours in the saddle. Play the instrument that calls to you, the one you love the sound of. Play every single day, as much as you can. Listen all the time. Enjoy the trip.
Start going to sessions right away, but go to listen, not to play, until you have some basic skills established. It is a lot of fun to listen, a fact that escapes many people who are too eager to jump into the middle of it.
Kids start playing because they like the sound, or feel, etc. but they don't agonize over about how "hard" it is. Adults know too much, in a sense -- they worry about failing, and that takes away from the joy. Be a child, no matter how old you are.
Speaking from my own experience.....having a good mentor or mentors is a lot of help. It is also good to do a lot of listening before you try to play this music.
Time is relative. To a 10 year old playing for 5 years, he's been playing half his life, and has a brain unencumbered by a multitude of past experiences, they live in the present have the same ability as adults so that explains some of that...being 38 is it? Inorder for you to have played half your life you will need to live to 76, you'll be friggin incredible by then, and that drippy nosed kid might get bored of it and start chasing members of the opposite sex, who most of the time don't get Irish Traditional Music at all. You'll be fine.
I have a friend who started on Mandolin, and then picked up fiddle he's a much better fiddler than he gives himself credit for, I think Mando is a fine start. With a mandoline one can practice chords and the shape of the tunes without commiting to the tedious details of the melody until ready.
3. You can find an expensive banjo without a resonator, those are pretty quiet.
I do this because it's fun. That's what makes it last.
J'aime bien ce site de bavardage qui m'est traduit de l'anglais au français par l'ordinateur , traductiion qui sans être parfaite donne une bonne idée du texte , j'immagine qu'il peut aussi en être ainsi pour du francais à l'anglais ,
Si il y a de gens qui peuvent communiquer avec moi en francais ,par courriel, j'apprecierais beaucoup .
jeanelise@videotron.ca
Generally, you can remove the resonator without too much trouble, if it comes to that. And yes, that cuts down on the volume a lot. You can also back off the tension on the head, that'll cut down on the volume, but it'll also affect the action to some extent. The nice thing about the banjo is that you can try making these adjustments yourself, and the worst that'll happen is that you have to pay for a setup, once you mess it up - the banjo is a tinkerer's instrument.
Welcome Mr Bonbons
I'm just a learner too so dont listen to me but... good advice from Jon Kiparsky. Banjo and mandolin are different animals and I feel its best to treat them that way.
Which do you prefer? If its banjo, don't be put off by the anti banjo lot- they're just jealous.
JimmyB-
"I wouldn't suggest starting with banjo only because if you intend to sit in a session and you're just learning, it's hard to keep the banjo buried in the mix ..."
I dissagree. You are right that you can't bury the banjo in the mix but thats the same for pipes and fiddle. You just have to learn the tune and play it full on.
If you love banjo MrBonbons, be bold and go for it MrBonbons (I like typing your name) and play it proud.
By the way we don't call it trad or Irish trad we call it ITM
The one nice thing about playing a banjo at a session--
if somebody tells you to 'put a sock in it', you can always pretend to assume they mean for you to place a sock or towel under the banjo head to dampen the sound level!
I would not worry about your age. I took up more than one instrument at your age or older, and have had a lot of fun.
As already stated above, a mentor is a wonderful asset, choose well your first instrument, and try to find a teacher for proper technique to start with, then focus on a style of playing which inspires you.
(surely there has been someone you heard and said, "Gee, I wish i could do THAT.")
As also stated above, do not let the phonies here or elsewhere discourage whatever path you should choose.
Keep reading and posting here, and you will soon understand.
Mr. BonsBons:
Of the Candyland BonBons I presume?
Mando is obviously a little easier than banjo, shorter scale-length. Word of advice is to learn TUNES, and not 1)"just play along", this isn't The Greatful Dead 2)don't chop chords --leave accompaniment to others, it's a different skill, and you'll sound like you're a lost bluegrasser anyway. Just play the melodies.
Haha, "just". 3) Learn ornamentation, early on, even if you don't use it much; it's the heart and soul of this stuff. 4)You can call it Trad or ITM or Chunes in my house. Just don't call it uncool. 5)Don't worry about your chronological challenges --I've been doin' this for thirty-some years and they STILL let me play. And, 6)welcome.
Your age has nothing to do with it. Your mental faculties, physical assets or constraints, eg one short arm and one long one, or baboon hands, no lips, and such, have more of a bearing on what you will excel at. The mandolin sounds like a good starting point, provided you enjoy the sound of it. You can change to fiddle, or banjo, or bouzouki, even guitar, at a later stage if you prefer. The main thing is to get some tunes in your head. You will never be able to play any instrument -- or the bodhran -- without knowing a tune or two. Good luck and keep practising. It's fun and rewarding.
1. Heck no!
2. Sure! But the real question is, do YOU want to play the mandolin?
3. Your fingers go in all the same places...just further away from each other.
If you really want to play the mandolin or banjo, go for it, but I’d also recommend that you take up the whistle at the same time. It will almost certainly enhance your understanding of The Music in ways that a plectrum instrument can’t, and you might decide that it’s more satisfying.
“get yourself bodhran. You'll be sitting in a session within a week” (llig leahcim)
Heh, heh….. very naughty indeed ‘me thinks!’ Hope you don’t play poker my friend!!!
"length of time" (mcknowall)
Within a year bud!
“You never mentioned if you are already a musician” (Jimmy B)
No man, a complete novice!
“Play your instruments! Get away from thesession.org while you still can!!!!” (shanty)
Heh, heh…...maybe, maybe!!!
“Of the Candyland BonBons I presume?”
Indeed my friend! Used to love those babies as a kid (& the name)! Always tickled me!!!
“Sure! But the real question is, do YOU want to play the mandolin?” (SWFL Fiddler)
Yes I think so man. I really like the sound it makes; it sits well in another genre I like; & of course its very portable. It just seemed like the logical choice!
“but I’d also recommend that you take up the whistle at the same time” (Bob himself)
Currently ‘at it’ as it were, cheers!
To anyone whom I didn’t respond as yet many thanks for all your advice! Very insightful indeed!
PS, llig leahcim
“some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again” (C.S. Lewis). Heh, heh!
1. I started playing Irish at 37, after having played guitar for a number of years. So I don't think it's too late. But you should examine your reasons for it. If you're really interested in it, then you will become hooked like the rest of us, and it will change your life (generally for the better...) But it takes a lot of dedication, practice, and time commitment. And it will take a really long time if you're not in a place where you can immerse yourself in it, by being around other people who play it well.
2. I would be careful thinking about a "beginner's instrument" (and "beginner tunes", for that matter). Even the simple penny whistle takes years to become proficient at playing well. Mandolin is only easier than banjo at the beginning, because it is smaller, and requires less stretching of your hands into positions that feel awkward at first. But it's also more difficult to play, in that you are physically pushing the plectrum through two strings at a higher tension. Banjos take very little physical effort to play. So, as Eoseph points out, even though they are tuned the same, they are different creatures, and should be treated as such. (I actually quit playing mandolin for the most part, because I found that it was making my right hand technique way too gruff for the banjo, and I was losing any semblance of subtlety that I could get out of my banjo).
3. I did learn the two instruments in tandem. And for a number of years, it was OK, until I got to the point where I could actually play with some subtlety, and started realizing that the techniques are different enough, especially with the right hand, that both instruments were interfering with my ability to play the other one well. And banjo won the battle, for the time being. (I still play mandolin, but not much).
Another thing to keep in mind is that a mandolin generally won't stand up in a noisy session. Not only well everybody else not be able to hear you (which can be a good thing when you're starting out!), but you often won't be able to hear yourself, which can be disastrous. So mandolin is just a slippery slope to banjo anyway
That is also related to the immersion thing that people have mentioned. There's nothing wrong with being interested in multiple styles of music. But to be good at any one of them will generally require immersion, at least for a period of time.
There are a lot of similarities between different forms of traditional music, Irish, Scottish, Old Time, Blugrass, etc. But there are relatively few players who can play multiple styles well. The differences between the styles of music (and playing etiquette) becomes much clearer, the more you are immersed in any one of the styles.
IMO, nothing ruins an Irish session quite like someone who can play proficiently, and knows all the right tunes, but plays them in a way that doesn't mesh. Especially when the person does not have enough sensitivity to realize that they don't sound right.
So my recommendation would be to choose one style of music when you are beginning, and don't muddy the water with other styles until you have a good understanding of the first one, and have enough proficiency with your instrument to be able to make it sound proper in that one style.
"it sits well in another genre I like..."
Just for laughs at house parties with non-(& bad)musician friends. Nothing serious I assure you. ITM all the way on a serious note however!
Mandolin is a great and portable instrument.
It's not a great session instrument because of the noise levels at pub sessions (and the distance of the mando sound from your ears) means you tend to play too hard.
Tinwhistle, If you don't get it for Mother's Day, go out and buy one of your own. Get a nice little 'how to play' book and CD (I started with the Clarke whistle package), or better yet a teacher, and enjoy the ride!
Hello, anybody there?
Hello, anybody there?
Hello everybody…….mmm, where to begin!
I’m a 38 year old fella whose interested in getting involved in the ‘trad’ music scene. I’m aware that this is “late in the day” to be starting out so I’m approaching it with a little trepidation I must admit. Anyway, if I could get some educated opinion on the following I’d really appreciate it.
(1) Do you think my beginners age is going to give me huge learning problems (i.e.,length of time, etc).
(2) I’ve signed up for some lessons and have chosen the mandolin to begin with. I was wondering whether this was a good choice or not on my behalf (good beginners instrument, etc).
(3) I also like the sound of a banjo and was wondering if its feasible to learn the two instruments in tandem bearing in mind my age.
Please feel free to be frank (or whatever) & cheers for the moment!
# Posted on March 11th 2010 by MrBonBons
Re: Hello, anybody there?
your age will have nothing to do with it. I started to learn when I was 42. What is important is your dedication to improving. You keep that up and you will have no problems.
lowhistle
# Posted on March 11th 2010 by LoWhistle
Re: Hello, anybody there?
I started fiddle lessons at 37. One guy in a session I used to go to started at 70. Age means nothing. The best instrument is the one you will pick up often. Enjoy!
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by tracywag
Re: Hello, anybody there?
get yourself bodhran. You'll be sitting in a session within a week.
http://www.mcknowall.com/faq.html
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by llig leahcim
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Welcome. You are sure to get plenty of opinions. Your age is over little concern, only your passion to do it. Choice of instrument is up to you. Choices in instrument usually fall into two categories: a) chosen for what is best for this music or b) chosen because it's an instrument the musician is comfortable with. That is by no means all inclusive. Whistle is always a solid beginners choice because it is so inexpensive and easier to get off the ground than, say, fiddle. I play mando and I'm looking into banjo. I wouldn't suggest starting with banjo only because if you intend to sit in a session and you're just learning, it's hard to keep the banjo buried in the mix as it is going to be among the loudest instruments present. Mando is a good choice if you are partial to plectrum instruments.
I hope that helps.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Oh, by the way. I'm a beginner too and should in no way be taken as an authority, an expert, etc. Just a fellow newcomer.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Hello, anybody there?
I started at 54 (though had played American 'Irish" drinking music for years- very different....um....disciplines.)
Good people here on this site. Use them wisely.
And Ilig. I am surprised at that advice. Having tried bodhran and failed miserably, and having put up with several experienced 'drummers' who thought the cross-over would be natural, it can be a difficult instrument. I would hate to have Mr. BonBons thrown out of the aforementioned session in a week and fifteen minutes
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by zippydw
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Why thank you michael!
Mrbonbons "length of time" quote is interesting as is your estimate of a "within a week", however I recommend joining in a session straight away, whether you can play or not.
This way you will become a snob quicker, you will learn all the snide jargon and learn to avoid many unpleasant types who turn up.
You will then learn trickier aspects of "THE MUSIC" such as chair stealing, targetted drink spilling, silent farting etc.
In the process you will meet many warm, welcoming players who remember what life was like when they too were learning
Stick with that crew and avoid cranky old men like the plague, they have nothing whatever to offer which is in any way helpful.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by mcknowall
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Some of us are good enough at spilling our own drinks, thank you!
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Ebor_fiddler
Re: Hello, anybody there?
To answer your 3 questions:
1. I'm afraid so. I'm sorry. It's a lot easier to learn this stuff when you're young. It'll be tough going. But if you cut yourself some slack and approach it in the right frame of mind, you can have a lot of fun.
2. Mandolin is a good choice. Go with it.
3. Banjo. No. Stick with the mando. Focus your efforts on it. One instrument at a time.
Oh and forget the bodhran. Llig doesn't really mean it.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by tradshark
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Mr Bonbons -
You never mentioned if you are already a musician. I am assuming that if you already play that it's probably a stringed instrument if you are considering mando. If you already play music a pletrum instrument, like guitar, then you at least have some rudimentary skills that will help you. If you are starting a musical instrument for the very first time, then yes, it's going to be rough going.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Hello, anybody there?
I should probably qualify my last post a bit.
Will your age hamper the speed and ease at which you will gain proficiency? Yes, almost certainly.
Will it limit your enjoyment of the music and the social scene it brings? Only as far as you let it. If you show that you love and respect the music, then those of us who feel the same way will love and respect you. Regardless of your technical ability.
And that respect bit is important. Love for the music is joining in a session and playing away to your hearts content. Respect is not doing it on a banjo.
At least while you're learning.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by tradshark
Re: Hello, anybody there?
See above.
And below:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23740/comments#comment493980
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: Hello, anybody there?
P.S. At 38, you qualify for Spring Chicken status, I believe. You haven't lost nearly as many brain cells as some of us.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: Hello, anybody there?
"get yourself bodhran. You'll be sitting in a session within a week" - on the face of it an uncharacteristic remark from our Michael, but I think, looking beneath the surface, there's rather more to it than that ...
Anyway, this isn't the thread to pursue that particular hare, so I'll just mention my own experience of taking up the fiddle in my 60's, going to sessions a few weeks later ... and not playing a single note in them for the best part of a year. Looking back on it nearly a decade later that certainly wasn't time wasted - I must have absorbed a lot of music, and about the music, just by sitting, listening and watching for 3 hours or so every week.
Another reason why it is inadvisable to jump in to session playing too early is that you (the beginner) are at the stage where you're trying to cope with the mechanics of playing a new instrument and learning new tunes (at session speed!) at the same time in what may not yet be a thoroughly familiar genre. Under those conditions something has to give and it's only too often that good basic technique is the fall guy. Unfortunately, the consequences are often still there years later
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Following on from that, don't try fiddle.
Don't try whistle, except at home - it's too obnoxious if you don't know what you're doing.
Actually mando sounds fine - it's unobtrusive and not too demanding.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Hup
Re: Hello, anybody there?
If you like the sound of a banjo, play a banjo! You can do both if you want- it's all up to you. It's A Matter OF TIME PUT IN. And at the ripe old age of 38 ya aint got much left( says the 45 year old) so why you wastin' time wondering what the people here think!!! Run away while you can! Play your instruments! Get away from thesession.org while you still can!!!!
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by shanty
Re: Hello, anybody there?
You'll have two potential areas of difficulty in learning banjo and mandolin simutaneously: fingering and picking. The fingerings are the same, the fret spacing is very different. This may cause a problem, or it may not, it depends on the player. I don't find it causes a problem, but others do.
The more serious issue will be with the right hand attack. The banjo requires a light touch if you're going to get a fluid sound, while the mandolin needs a much stronger attack if you're going to get any sound out of it at all. If you pay attention to your right hand and concentrate on getting a good sound on each instrument from the start, you'll probably be able to work around this. If you don't you'll be wondering why your banjo always sounds so much better than your mandolin, or vice versa - it'll be because you've unconsciously optimized your playing for one or the other, and you're expecting the same thing to work on the other. There's a big difference - you probably won't want to even use the same picks for the one and the other.
Those are not serious difficulties, and they won't stop you if you really want to learn both instruments, but you should be aware of them so you can deal with them rather than being baffled by them.
The other thing is, it is only acceptable to abbreviate "mandolin" to "mando" if you're an old-time player and hence too stoned to get the whole word out. It's never acceptable in trad music.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Hello, anybody there?
I started fiddle as an adult, and I'm no worse a player than the kids I know who've been playing as long as I have. But from my experience, there's one advantage to starting as a child, and it's this:
All beginners sound like cr@p - that's what it means to be a beginner. But children have the advantage of not realizing that they sound like cr@p, so they'll happily soldier on without getting discouraged. By the time they've developed the level of maturity and self-awareness they need to assess how they sound, they generally sound halfway decent.
I enjoyed practising from the minute I picked up the fiddle, but it was a good year and a half before I even slightly enjoyed listening to myself. But if you're prepared to push through those early stages, you'll be fine. (It's not quite as bad as mandolin - a badly played mandolin tends not to sound nearly as bad as a badly played fiddle.)
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Tradshark, there's actually very little evidence to prove that older people learn more slowly than youngsters. In fact, more and more, neuroscientists are discovering that our brains remain very "plastic"--able to build new networks between nerve cells and distinct centers of the brain--most of our lives, barring disease or injury.
Age isn't an issue. If you want to learn to play this music, what works is enthusiasm, happy immersion among quality players, latching onto a good mentor, and hours in the saddle. Play the instrument that calls to you, the one you love the sound of. Play every single day, as much as you can. Listen all the time. Enjoy the trip.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Start going to sessions right away, but go to listen, not to play, until you have some basic skills established. It is a lot of fun to listen, a fact that escapes many people who are too eager to jump into the middle of it.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Here's the difference:
Kids start playing because they like the sound, or feel, etc. but they don't agonize over about how "hard" it is. Adults know too much, in a sense -- they worry about failing, and that takes away from the joy. Be a child, no matter how old you are.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Jmbu
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Speaking from my own experience.....having a good mentor or mentors is a lot of help. It is also good to do a lot of listening before you try to play this music.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by fauxcelt
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Time is relative. To a 10 year old playing for 5 years, he's been playing half his life, and has a brain unencumbered by a multitude of past experiences, they live in the present have the same ability as adults so that explains some of that...being 38 is it? Inorder for you to have played half your life you will need to live to 76, you'll be friggin incredible by then, and that drippy nosed kid might get bored of it and start chasing members of the opposite sex, who most of the time don't get Irish Traditional Music at all.
You'll be fine.
I have a friend who started on Mandolin, and then picked up fiddle he's a much better fiddler than he gives himself credit for, I think Mando is a fine start. With a mandoline one can practice chords and the shape of the tunes without commiting to the tedious details of the melody until ready.
3. You can find an expensive banjo without a resonator, those are pretty quiet.
I do this because it's fun. That's what makes it last.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by SandyBottoms
Re: Hello, anybody there?
In- expensive banjo I meant SOrry.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by SandyBottoms
Re: Hello, anybody there?
J'aime bien ce site de bavardage qui m'est traduit de l'anglais au français par l'ordinateur , traductiion qui sans être parfaite donne une bonne idée du texte , j'immagine qu'il peut aussi en être ainsi pour du francais à l'anglais ,
Si il y a de gens qui peuvent communiquer avec moi en francais ,par courriel, j'apprecierais beaucoup .
jeanelise@videotron.ca
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Lapierre73
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Generally, you can remove the resonator without too much trouble, if it comes to that. And yes, that cuts down on the volume a lot. You can also back off the tension on the head, that'll cut down on the volume, but it'll also affect the action to some extent. The nice thing about the banjo is that you can try making these adjustments yourself, and the worst that'll happen is that you have to pay for a setup, once you mess it up - the banjo is a tinkerer's instrument.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Welcome Mr Bonbons
I'm just a learner too so dont listen to me but... good advice from Jon Kiparsky. Banjo and mandolin are different animals and I feel its best to treat them that way.
Which do you prefer? If its banjo, don't be put off by the anti banjo lot- they're just jealous.
JimmyB-
"I wouldn't suggest starting with banjo only because if you intend to sit in a session and you're just learning, it's hard to keep the banjo buried in the mix ..."
I dissagree. You are right that you can't bury the banjo in the mix but thats the same for pipes and fiddle. You just have to learn the tune and play it full on.
If you love banjo MrBonbons, be bold and go for it MrBonbons (I like typing your name) and play it proud.
By the way we don't call it trad or Irish trad we call it ITM
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Eòsaph
Re: Hello, anybody there?
The one nice thing about playing a banjo at a session--
if somebody tells you to 'put a sock in it', you can always pretend to assume they mean for you to place a sock or towel under the banjo head to dampen the sound level!
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Welcome to Trad Land, Mr. B-B.
I would not worry about your age. I took up more than one instrument at your age or older, and have had a lot of fun.
As already stated above, a mentor is a wonderful asset, choose well your first instrument, and try to find a teacher for proper technique to start with, then focus on a style of playing which inspires you.
(surely there has been someone you heard and said, "Gee, I wish i could do THAT.")
As also stated above, do not let the phonies here or elsewhere discourage whatever path you should choose.
Keep reading and posting here, and you will soon understand.
Good Luck.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Piece
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Mr. BonsBons:
Of the Candyland BonBons I presume?
Mando is obviously a little easier than banjo, shorter scale-length. Word of advice is to learn TUNES, and not 1)"just play along", this isn't The Greatful Dead 2)don't chop chords --leave accompaniment to others, it's a different skill, and you'll sound like you're a lost bluegrasser anyway. Just play the melodies.
Haha, "just". 3) Learn ornamentation, early on, even if you don't use it much; it's the heart and soul of this stuff. 4)You can call it Trad or ITM or Chunes in my house. Just don't call it uncool. 5)Don't worry about your chronological challenges --I've been doin' this for thirty-some years and they STILL let me play. And, 6)welcome.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by pgm3
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Your age has nothing to do with it. Your mental faculties, physical assets or constraints, eg one short arm and one long one, or baboon hands, no lips, and such, have more of a bearing on what you will excel at. The mandolin sounds like a good starting point, provided you enjoy the sound of it. You can change to fiddle, or banjo, or bouzouki, even guitar, at a later stage if you prefer. The main thing is to get some tunes in your head. You will never be able to play any instrument -- or the bodhran -- without knowing a tune or two. Good luck and keep practising. It's fun and rewarding.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by gam
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Bonjour encore un fois, Dodger.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by gam
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Howdy bon bons, and welcome.
1. Heck no!
2. Sure! But the real question is, do YOU want to play the mandolin?
3. Your fingers go in all the same places...just further away from each other.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Hello, anybody there?
If you really want to play the mandolin or banjo, go for it, but I’d also recommend that you take up the whistle at the same time. It will almost certainly enhance your understanding of The Music in ways that a plectrum instrument can’t, and you might decide that it’s more satisfying.
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Bob himself
Re: Hello, anybody there?
“get yourself bodhran. You'll be sitting in a session within a week” (llig leahcim)
Heh, heh….. very naughty indeed ‘me thinks!’ Hope you don’t play poker my friend!!!
"length of time" (mcknowall)
Within a year bud!
“You never mentioned if you are already a musician” (Jimmy B)
No man, a complete novice!
“Play your instruments! Get away from thesession.org while you still can!!!!” (shanty)
Heh, heh…...maybe, maybe!!!
“Of the Candyland BonBons I presume?”
Indeed my friend! Used to love those babies as a kid (& the name)! Always tickled me!!!
“Sure! But the real question is, do YOU want to play the mandolin?” (SWFL Fiddler)
Yes I think so man. I really like the sound it makes; it sits well in another genre I like; & of course its very portable. It just seemed like the logical choice!
“but I’d also recommend that you take up the whistle at the same time” (Bob himself)
Currently ‘at it’ as it were, cheers!
To anyone whom I didn’t respond as yet many thanks for all your advice! Very insightful indeed!
PS, llig leahcim
“some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again” (C.S. Lewis). Heh, heh!
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by MrBonBons
Re: Hello, anybody there?
1. I started playing Irish at 37, after having played guitar for a number of years. So I don't think it's too late. But you should examine your reasons for it. If you're really interested in it, then you will become hooked like the rest of us, and it will change your life (generally for the better...) But it takes a lot of dedication, practice, and time commitment. And it will take a really long time if you're not in a place where you can immerse yourself in it, by being around other people who play it well.
2. I would be careful thinking about a "beginner's instrument" (and "beginner tunes", for that matter). Even the simple penny whistle takes years to become proficient at playing well. Mandolin is only easier than banjo at the beginning, because it is smaller, and requires less stretching of your hands into positions that feel awkward at first. But it's also more difficult to play, in that you are physically pushing the plectrum through two strings at a higher tension. Banjos take very little physical effort to play. So, as Eoseph points out, even though they are tuned the same, they are different creatures, and should be treated as such. (I actually quit playing mandolin for the most part, because I found that it was making my right hand technique way too gruff for the banjo, and I was losing any semblance of subtlety that I could get out of my banjo).
3. I did learn the two instruments in tandem. And for a number of years, it was OK, until I got to the point where I could actually play with some subtlety, and started realizing that the techniques are different enough, especially with the right hand, that both instruments were interfering with my ability to play the other one well. And banjo won the battle, for the time being. (I still play mandolin, but not much).
Another thing to keep in mind is that a mandolin generally won't stand up in a noisy session. Not only well everybody else not be able to hear you (which can be a good thing when you're starting out!), but you often won't be able to hear yourself, which can be disastrous. So mandolin is just a slippery slope to banjo anyway
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Reverend
Re: Hello, anybody there?
"it sits well in another genre I like..."
That is also related to the immersion thing that people have mentioned. There's nothing wrong with being interested in multiple styles of music. But to be good at any one of them will generally require immersion, at least for a period of time.
There are a lot of similarities between different forms of traditional music, Irish, Scottish, Old Time, Blugrass, etc. But there are relatively few players who can play multiple styles well. The differences between the styles of music (and playing etiquette) becomes much clearer, the more you are immersed in any one of the styles.
IMO, nothing ruins an Irish session quite like someone who can play proficiently, and knows all the right tunes, but plays them in a way that doesn't mesh. Especially when the person does not have enough sensitivity to realize that they don't sound right.
So my recommendation would be to choose one style of music when you are beginning, and don't muddy the water with other styles until you have a good understanding of the first one, and have enough proficiency with your instrument to be able to make it sound proper in that one style.
Just my $.02
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by Reverend
Re: Hello, anybody there?
"it sits well in another genre I like..."
Just for laughs at house parties with non-(& bad)musician friends. Nothing serious I assure you. ITM all the way on a serious note however!
# Posted on March 12th 2010 by MrBonBons
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Mandolin is a great and portable instrument.
It's not a great session instrument because of the noise levels at pub sessions (and the distance of the mando sound from your ears) means you tend to play too hard.
Still, I take mine to sessions everywhere
# Posted on March 13th 2010 by Bren
Re: Hello, anybody there?
I'm hoping to get a tin whistle for Mothers day tomorrow, then I can join in the session in the pub (when I feel confident enough!)
T*
# Posted on March 13th 2010 by Tinwhistle*
Re: Hello, anybody there?
Tinwhistle, If you don't get it for Mother's Day, go out and buy one of your own. Get a nice little 'how to play' book and CD (I started with the Clarke whistle package), or better yet a teacher, and enjoy the ride!
# Posted on March 13th 2010 by AlBrown