Our session has just changed venues. In the new place we are made welcome and the piped music is turned off (they refused to turn off the juke box in the previous pub). Although the players and the tunes are the same as they have been for the last 20 or so years for which I can vouch personally, the standard of playing has gone up.
How important to players is the 'feel' of a session venue?
Oh yes. It is critical. Here in the wild southwest, bar and other venue owners don't understand the idea of the session. We have had conflicts with juke boxes, as you did, televisions with football games blaring, and probably just about every other thing that could ruin a good session venue.
In the last year, I started a new session here in Albuquerque that meets once a month. Fortunately, the manager of the pizza place we are using had worked at an Irish bar and had some idea of what a session was. I explained to her that we wanted to establish some rules about who could and who could not participate--OK, you know the drill, one bodhran, one guitar, no weird instruments, etc. So far the venue has been supportive and all is well.
We have had problems in the past with bars that agreed to having the session, but then were mad that we did not bring in business for them, although they did not contact the local media to let them know that the session was happening. Somehow the concept of telling the local newspaper that there is music happening is beyond them.
The Swinette: www.wsmsmusic.com/images/sillystuff/swinette.jpg
A long lost, beautiful instrument
Still played in the traditional way, with the teeth.
"no weird instruments" he says while a man sits next to him with a set of bellows strapped to one arm which are connected by a hose to a bag under the other arm, the bag has three pipes protruding form one side, another set of pipes stick out of it which have several sets of keys and another pipe which fits in his hand. When he begins to pump the bellows, and squeeze the bag under his arm, all the pipes start making a sound that's something in between a castrated old man trying to singing opera and a drunken mountain goat.
Oh yeah, about the sessions here, Uhm, no one has ever heard of a session where I live, But there is always the willing stoned hippie fairy dancer that feels the need to jump up and start dancing and bang on a djembe whenever we break out the pipes in public.
My idea of a session - happily realised in the ones I go to - is a group of people playing or chatting in a part of a pub and being not in the slightest beholden to anyone else there, bar remaining within the quite generous bounds of reasonable behaviour.
Not being *beholden* to others present does not, of course, exclude friendly interaction. And half-way decent music played by a regular quota of drink-buying musicians, plus regular listeners who also buy drinks, goes down well enough with the landlords AFAIK.
I assume you meant 'welcome' as opposed to 'welcoming'. We play weekly sessions at different pubs on a monthly circuit and we are always made welcome.
No TV's or piped music playing and we always get soem free food - sandwiches, chips. that sort of thing. Years ago we often used to get free jugs of ale or a round bought us by the landlord but with licensing laws and most people driving we prefer something to soak up the ale rather than add to it!
The co-owner of our venue recently told me that if anybody ever made trouble for us--tried to horn in with inappropriate music, or complained about us playing there--he and his staff would support us "100 percent."
We' ve got pretty good support. Free drinks and they turn off the
canned music as much as possible. it's a big pub so there might
be canned in music still running in other seating areas. They
will chase off obnoxious drunks for us too which is handy.
We had a cello show up one time; people gave him funny looks
when he started improvising - he didn't know any tunes. The
funny looks scared him away pretty fast.
I am not really asking about the welcome other musicians give newcomers - that's been done on another thread recently. It is your experience specifically of venues and licensees and perhaps how much they understand of what is going on in a session that interests me.
Interesting hup, that some landlords will back up musical decisions such as barring anyone who plays the 'wrong' sort of music. Every session, if it is allowed to, will develop its own set of rules and musical mix so how a landlord manages to do this is beyond me, unless they play themselves or are open to pressure of some kind. What I'm trying to say is - who says what is allowed or not?
"We have had problems in the past with bars that agreed to having the session, but then were mad that we did not bring in business for them, although they did not contact the local media to let them know that the session was happening. Somehow the concept of telling the local newspaper that there is music happening is beyond them."
Sessions are surely not meant to be advertised as an attraction. Advertising for members is one thing, but if you are providing 'live music' it treading on entirely different territory.
A few years ago I was handed the running of one by a friend, and liked it so much I started another more local one.
The local one is now in its third venue - management don't always have the idea of what you do, not matter how much you try and explain, and also they may change their minds as to what is or isn't a good thing for their bar. At the first venue the owner ended up blatant lying about why we had to go, saying we frightened the customers - it was a biker hang-out amongst other things, for God's sake !
As to contacting the local media, that could be a job for the session convener/facillatator/whatever you call yourself.
I've always taken the view that the landlord is doing us a favour by giving us a place to play. Our sessions take place on Sunday afternoons, when the lunchtime diners have gone home but before the evening rush. That way we can't be accused of driving anyone away (believe it or not, there are people in this world who don't like traditional music!). Even if we don't draw crowds, and it's only the musicians present, he still makes a bit of money out of what would otherwise be an empty pub, so everyone is happy.
We are very lucky that the great local pub that we play in has a great local landlord. He loves the music. Players and singers get a free drink and he usually puts some plates of food on for us later in the night. It's only a small pub but it can get absolutely packed which is great for a Monday night.
I used to go to a great Wednesday night session in a city centre pub but it went through some management changes and became very sport orientated. They were always having matches on the tv. It got to the point where the session wouldn't start til 10pm! And many of the punters being very drunk and noisy by then didn't make for the best session environment. It was a shame as that session had been going more than 10 years I think
Hey jwalkert, at a multicultural festival here in Canberra recently
I saw something that would work in Hawaii. A big bowl of Kava
with a table full of singing, guitar playing Tongans - looked like
great fun. I would have sat down with them but the missus
wouldn't have been impressed.
Sounds like fun. When a friend here opened a Kava bar, we would play shows there for him to help bring customers in (the bagpipes have a way of getting peoples attention). We wouldn't let him pay us but he would give us all the kava we wanted, it was great!
I think some tourist posted this video of it......
Why would you want to have a session in an unwelcoming place?
But of course I know why - because you want to have it in a pub, and there isn't much choice of pubs in your area.
It can work in big rabbit-warren type pubs like they have in Australia - there's usually at least one room where the sessioneers can play without disturbing or being disturbed by others too much but the sound of music wafting through can entice people in. Of course you get the occasional loud cheers from the adjoining rooms on finishing a set only to realise someone's just scored in the footy.
The Davilak in South Fremantle WA, The Lomond in Brunswick, Vic and the Quiet Man in Newmarket Vic spring to mind
JWalkert - a local Hawaiian ukulele session might not be such a bad idea .... get some steel and slack-key guitarists in as well perhaps?
I could never figure that one out. Why not just invite your friends over a buy a case of beer? Heck of a lot cheaper, plus you get to control the juke box that way. Ha ha.
yebbut according to the International Rules of Authentic ITM set down by The Trad Police, plainclothes division, section 2 subsection 2a, aka Wikipedia cut and paste:
A seisún (from Gaelic), or pub session is an event in which musicians gather together to play traditional Irish music, frequently in a pub.
Seisúns, also spelled sesssion are common in many parts of the Anglophone world.
Also, the idea is to get out of the house for a bit, is it not?
Sometimes "I'm just popping down to the pub for a few tunes" goes down a lot better than "I've invited a bunch of scuzzy muso friends over for a session this afternoon, OK?"
We lucked out in the article of 'Landlord.' Ours is a fine fellow, and very hospitable. He's not likely to read this, so what the heck. He's one of the good'ns.
Do landlords meet together in cyberspace to boast/complain about their sessions? Do they ask each other for advice on which is the cruelest way to unload a session? Or try to foist sessions off on one another? Guv.org?
How welcome is your session?
How welcome is your session?
Our session has just changed venues. In the new place we are made welcome and the piped music is turned off (they refused to turn off the juke box in the previous pub). Although the players and the tunes are the same as they have been for the last 20 or so years for which I can vouch personally, the standard of playing has gone up.
How important to players is the 'feel' of a session venue?
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by eiluned
Re: How welcome is your session?
Absolutely essential. Like playing with inspring players, a supportive and relaxed venue raises my game every time.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by bc_box_player
Re: How welcome is your session?
Oh yes. It is critical. Here in the wild southwest, bar and other venue owners don't understand the idea of the session. We have had conflicts with juke boxes, as you did, televisions with football games blaring, and probably just about every other thing that could ruin a good session venue.
In the last year, I started a new session here in Albuquerque that meets once a month. Fortunately, the manager of the pizza place we are using had worked at an Irish bar and had some idea of what a session was. I explained to her that we wanted to establish some rules about who could and who could not participate--OK, you know the drill, one bodhran, one guitar, no weird instruments, etc. So far the venue has been supportive and all is well.
We have had problems in the past with bars that agreed to having the session, but then were mad that we did not bring in business for them, although they did not contact the local media to let them know that the session was happening. Somehow the concept of telling the local newspaper that there is music happening is beyond them.
As my Irish ancestors say, Oy vey!
John
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by John Conoboy
Re: How welcome is your session?
We don't really have sessions around here.
What would be considered a weird instrument?
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by Gringo
Re: How welcome is your session?
The Swinette: www.wsmsmusic.com/images/sillystuff/swinette.jpg
A long lost, beautiful instrument
Still played in the traditional way, with the teeth.
"no weird instruments" he says while a man sits next to him with a set of bellows strapped to one arm which are connected by a hose to a bag under the other arm, the bag has three pipes protruding form one side, another set of pipes stick out of it which have several sets of keys and another pipe which fits in his hand. When he begins to pump the bellows, and squeeze the bag under his arm, all the pipes start making a sound that's something in between a castrated old man trying to singing opera and a drunken mountain goat.
Oh yeah, about the sessions here, Uhm, no one has ever heard of a session where I live, But there is always the willing stoned hippie fairy dancer that feels the need to jump up and start dancing and bang on a djembe whenever we break out the pipes in public.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by Jwalkert
Re: How welcome is your session?
My idea of a session - happily realised in the ones I go to - is a group of people playing or chatting in a part of a pub and being not in the slightest beholden to anyone else there, bar remaining within the quite generous bounds of reasonable behaviour.
Not being *beholden* to others present does not, of course, exclude friendly interaction. And half-way decent music played by a regular quota of drink-buying musicians, plus regular listeners who also buy drinks, goes down well enough with the landlords AFAIK.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by nicholas
Re: How welcome is your session?
I assume you meant 'welcome' as opposed to 'welcoming'. We play weekly sessions at different pubs on a monthly circuit and we are always made welcome.
No TV's or piped music playing and we always get soem free food - sandwiches, chips. that sort of thing. Years ago we often used to get free jugs of ale or a round bought us by the landlord but with licensing laws and most people driving we prefer something to soak up the ale rather than add to it!
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by Rob
Re: How welcome is your session?
".....the tunes are the same as they have been for the last 20 or so years...."
They must be really good tunes!
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by minijackpot
Re: How welcome is your session?
The co-owner of our venue recently told me that if anybody ever made trouble for us--tried to horn in with inappropriate music, or complained about us playing there--he and his staff would support us "100 percent."
To me, that's even better than free beer.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by John Galt
Re: How welcome is your session?
We' ve got pretty good support. Free drinks and they turn off the
canned music as much as possible. it's a big pub so there might
be canned in music still running in other seating areas. They
will chase off obnoxious drunks for us too which is handy.
We had a cello show up one time; people gave him funny looks
when he started improvising - he didn't know any tunes. The
funny looks scared him away pretty fast.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by Hup
Re: How welcome is your session?
I am not really asking about the welcome other musicians give newcomers - that's been done on another thread recently. It is your experience specifically of venues and licensees and perhaps how much they understand of what is going on in a session that interests me.
Interesting hup, that some landlords will back up musical decisions such as barring anyone who plays the 'wrong' sort of music. Every session, if it is allowed to, will develop its own set of rules and musical mix so how a landlord manages to do this is beyond me, unless they play themselves or are open to pressure of some kind. What I'm trying to say is - who says what is allowed or not?
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by eiluned
Re: How welcome is your session?
"We have had problems in the past with bars that agreed to having the session, but then were mad that we did not bring in business for them, although they did not contact the local media to let them know that the session was happening. Somehow the concept of telling the local newspaper that there is music happening is beyond them."
Sessions are surely not meant to be advertised as an attraction. Advertising for members is one thing, but if you are providing 'live music' it treading on entirely different territory.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by eiluned
Re: How welcome is your session?
A few years ago I was handed the running of one by a friend, and liked it so much I started another more local one.
The local one is now in its third venue - management don't always have the idea of what you do, not matter how much you try and explain, and also they may change their minds as to what is or isn't a good thing for their bar. At the first venue the owner ended up blatant lying about why we had to go, saying we frightened the customers - it was a biker hang-out amongst other things, for God's sake !
As to contacting the local media, that could be a job for the session convener/facillatator/whatever you call yourself.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How welcome is your session?
I've always taken the view that the landlord is doing us a favour by giving us a place to play. Our sessions take place on Sunday afternoons, when the lunchtime diners have gone home but before the evening rush. That way we can't be accused of driving anyone away (believe it or not, there are people in this world who don't like traditional music!). Even if we don't draw crowds, and it's only the musicians present, he still makes a bit of money out of what would otherwise be an empty pub, so everyone is happy.
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by skreech
Re: How welcome is your session?
I suppose we could have a session here, it would involve lots of Ukeleles though!
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by Jwalkert
Re: How welcome is your session?
We are very lucky that the great local pub that we play in has a great local landlord. He loves the music. Players and singers get a free drink and he usually puts some plates of food on for us later in the night. It's only a small pub but it can get absolutely packed which is great for a Monday night.
I used to go to a great Wednesday night session in a city centre pub but it went through some management changes and became very sport orientated. They were always having matches on the tv. It got to the point where the session wouldn't start til 10pm! And many of the punters being very drunk and noisy by then didn't make for the best session environment. It was a shame as that session had been going more than 10 years I think
# Posted on March 6th 2010 by flossie
Re: How welcome is your session?
I've tried to start a session here, but every time I march into a bar with my accordion, they threaten to call the cops.
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by Gringo
Re: How welcome is your session?
Hey jwalkert, at a multicultural festival here in Canberra recently
I saw something that would work in Hawaii. A big bowl of Kava
with a table full of singing, guitar playing Tongans - looked like
great fun. I would have sat down with them but the missus
wouldn't have been impressed.
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by Hup
Re: How welcome is your session?
Sounds like fun. When a friend here opened a Kava bar, we would play shows there for him to help bring customers in (the bagpipes have a way of getting peoples attention). We wouldn't let him pay us but he would give us all the kava we wanted, it was great!
I think some tourist posted this video of it......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnF0P0BnGW4
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by Jwalkert
Re: How welcome is your session?
We are guaranteed seats at one session because the Border pipes flushes people out of them like hosed cats.
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by nicholas
Re: How welcome is your session?
does a mandolin count as a wierd instrument?
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by mandolinist
Re: How welcome is your session?
Why would you want to have a session in an unwelcoming place?
But of course I know why - because you want to have it in a pub, and there isn't much choice of pubs in your area.
It can work in big rabbit-warren type pubs like they have in Australia - there's usually at least one room where the sessioneers can play without disturbing or being disturbed by others too much but the sound of music wafting through can entice people in. Of course you get the occasional loud cheers from the adjoining rooms on finishing a set only to realise someone's just scored in the footy.
The Davilak in South Fremantle WA, The Lomond in Brunswick, Vic and the Quiet Man in Newmarket Vic spring to mind
JWalkert - a local Hawaiian ukulele session might not be such a bad idea .... get some steel and slack-key guitarists in as well perhaps?
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by Bren
Re: How welcome is your session?
"How important to players is the 'feel' of a session venue?"
Essential. As essential as the assembled musicians themselves, and the tunes they play.
"they refused to turn off the juke box in the previous pub"
...and I would refuse to play there. End of story.
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How welcome is your session?
"because you want to have it in a pub"
I could never figure that one out. Why not just invite your friends over a buy a case of beer? Heck of a lot cheaper, plus you get to control the juke box that way. Ha ha.
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How welcome is your session?
yebbut according to the International Rules of Authentic ITM set down by The Trad Police, plainclothes division, section 2 subsection 2a, aka Wikipedia cut and paste:
A seisún (from Gaelic), or pub session is an event in which musicians gather together to play traditional Irish music, frequently in a pub.
Seisúns, also spelled sesssion are common in many parts of the Anglophone world.
Also, the idea is to get out of the house for a bit, is it not?
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by Bren
Re: How welcome is your session?
You're have to be in pretty sad shape to need a night out so badly that you'd go try to fight a juke box with jigs and reels.
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How welcome is your session?
Sometimes "I'm just popping down to the pub for a few tunes" goes down a lot better than "I've invited a bunch of scuzzy muso friends over for a session this afternoon, OK?"
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by Bren
Re: How welcome is your session?
My old pub made us feel so welcome. They had a ring of chairs for the musicians already set, and they gave us discounts on all of our food and drinks.
# Posted on March 7th 2010 by pipersgrip
Re: How welcome is your session?
We lucked out in the article of 'Landlord.' Ours is a fine fellow, and very hospitable. He's not likely to read this, so what the heck. He's one of the good'ns.
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: How welcome is your session?
Do landlords meet together in cyberspace to boast/complain about their sessions? Do they ask each other for advice on which is the cruelest way to unload a session? Or try to foist sessions off on one another? Guv.org?
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley