Watched one of their videos (one in response to a vid with Aidan O'Neill playing Farewell to Erin) so I decided to post this comment:
"Is it just me or is this version of Farewell to Erin really bad in comparison to Aidan O'Neill's masterful sensitive playing on the video that this is in response to?
Contemporary noodling during the middle of tunes really starts to grate"
Deary me that touched a nerve. The guys then proceeded to comment this is response:
"It is you - at least we can play our instruments! Having checked out your playing, i'm still laughing at the temerity. Whether you're the one double stopping or your mate, you're shite.
I mean, if you're looking for 'masterful playing' ,limply playing 3 tunes using somebody else's shitty arrangement and barely able to pull off the few ornaments you attempt isn't it.
I can't believe you play a WORSE version of the same tune - and then give us your abuse. Go f*ck yourself"
I'm actually laughing at how well these guys respond to a bit of criticism
Oh and they were even so nice as to leave me a comment on my channel:
"you are COMPLETELY codsh*t on the fiddle by the way. How dare you slag us off - and your playing 'grates'on my ears too. It's derivative - and not especially trad if you were wondering if limply doubly stopping accompaniment is either tasteful or trad - IT ISN'T! Learn some ornaments. (Instead of that hippy-trippy-b*llocks.)
I'm personally 50/50 about the "contemporary noodling" thing... many times, the extent to which Choonz uses it does often grate on my ears, though. No doubt, they're good musicians, but they over-do it, in my opinion.
Despite however good they may be, I've long since been turned off by them as people... I get tired of the, what seems to me, egotistical nonsense and the way they treat any criticism, constructive or not.
Do we really need to know all this?
I say don't sink to their level. take a slap on the jaw like a man then forget it and move on. Don't bother broadcasting all the little kiddy details here. I only say this because I've done the same as the above myself and am not proud of it.
... and even so, I can't resist. I've watched (the first couple of seconds of) a number of Choonz recordings now. I can't stand what they do. I don't know how it relates to music, let alone trad. Technically, they seem more than proficient, so I'm puzzled by them doing what they do. Quite a lot of the vids they've got out there are badly out of tune as well, btw. The whistle is often flat. Don't know why they do that ...
Still, this is just a personal opinion. I think your comment seemed fair, D.J.K. , and certainly didn't justify the sort of abuse you received in response. In my experience, decent musicians take all criticism - even the really aggressive sort - as something to learn from. I haven't come across proper musicians who have the sort of arrogant, bullying attitude that appears to have been displayed by Choonz towards you, D.J.F.
And that Aidan O'Neill vid has cheered me up for the day. Totally brilliant.
Well D.J.F. if you're going to give criticism then you better be able to take it. What the hell do you expect? It's easy for folk to use the net to slag others and make out they are some sort of expert. Happens here all the time. They are quite within their rights to be as honest about what they thought of your clip as you were with your thoughts on theirs.
Having said that, the Choonz guys really, really need to learn how to be gracious in accepting criticism. They are very good players and anyone who can't see through their own taste to realize that is missing something. It's not my taste either but fair play to them. However, along with good playing a thicker skin is required as there are always people who hate your music. It's easy for us to forget that the closer to pure drop trad is, the less people there are who like it.
They went way over the top with their reply but at the same time you started it. Choonz, if you're reading, great playing but please, do yourselves a favour and by all means reply to criticism but you must learn to take it on the chin. There are many many knocks to come no matter what direction you go in. You can't please everyone.
"It's easy for us to forget that the closer to pure drop trad is, the less people there are who like it." - I mean by that that I consider your style as valid as pure drop, though many here would strongly disagree.
I've just watched both videos - Aidan O'Neill's and the linked Choonz - and I really can't see what the fuss is about, musically speaking. We're not comparing like with like: one was a traditional performance of a tune by a very talented fiddler in front of a audience (was it in a competition?), and would be acceptable in any session; the other was a modern free development of the tune in a paid gig on stage by three very talented musicians, and would probably not be acceptable in a session. I have no argument with these two very different approaches to the music - they both have their intrinsic validity and are intended for different audiences (which of course may have members in common).
Regarding the discourse on YouTube between "msrbbc" and "DJF", all I need to say is that YT clearly doesn't have the standards of civility expected of us on this website!
Its rare that we receive such criticism (and slagging off) in person. Just because its the internet, dont assume there wont be a response. I wonder how many of you would say what you have if you met us. And wouldnt expect a response.
By the way, Djf, im David, the fiddle player with Choonz. My girlfriend Maeve is at Uni in Manchester so il be turning up at sessions and doing gigs there from time to time. Maybe you'd like to be so critiquing after I've sat next to you in a session.
I know the difference bewtween a sesh and a gig but I'm more concerned about the lack of respect these people show to others. Just a quick browse through the various self penned submissions and recordings that "Choonz" have put up here paints a pretty bad picture of them. Not to mention the rubbish offensive names for the said tunes.
Hey! How 'bout those four goals by Rooney yesterday against Hull! That was really something, eh? Oh - I'm sorry. Were you two having a pointless internet p*ssing contest? My bad. Sorry to interrupt. Carry on.
Doodling on low-whistle is a bit like the inane doodling on saxaphone we hear all the time on Keltic stuff.
If you have a duff tune, add saxaphone and the media-sorts think it is "cool".
That "cool" bit with the jazz flute went out in the 1970s.
What next? Pointy-beards, berets, leather jackets and sunglasses (to be worn inside, at night) for cool-kats drinking frothy-coffee in a poetry-club?
Jazz Club . ...... yeah man!
I remember you Choonz guys, you came on this site a few months ago to promote yourselves, and got all nasty when you didn't get universal praise. Didn't make a very good impression, and not making a very good impression now, I am sorry to say. Regardless of the provocation, one is always best served by responding in a gentlemanly or ladylike manner, is what I was always taught, otherwise, you become part of the problem.
The problem lies as much in the quality of the criticism on both sides as with the music. Let's face it, ITM is a minority taste. A lot of the music out there in the world is not really to my taste, probably not to yours. So what? Choonz' music isn't mine either, but it would go down well in the background in an Irish tourist shop I'm sure. It's not a problem if I don't like it - it is, after all, quite competent in its way. Discussing it is a dead end.
BUT - DJF's "criticism" barely deserves the name. Essentially it just says "bad, bad, me no like".
Having said that, the response from msrbbc is equally empty but even more offensive.
Sad. And sad that this empty-headed squabble has made its way here.
Personally I don't care too much for the approach to those tunes and they don't seem to be 100% in time with each other, but I appreciate these people are proficient at what they do. However as Al says they have blown all street cred by responding in such an arrogant manner. Not that DJF did himself or anyone any favours by posting his gripe here and continuing to go on about it after being admonished and beseeched not to.
2 words:
Grow Up.
3 more words to both sides:
Let it Go.
What a waste of time and cyber-electrons.
And just to add. I doubt now if I would ever go to a choonz gig after vewing this little episode. (Not that they would now be welcome in South East London after this. I can make sure of that.) As for the other gland in hand merchant, djf, don't even think about it.
Yes Danny I've let it go now. One question, what do you mean when you say "As for the other gland in hand merchant, djf, don't even think about it." What's a gland in hand merchant?
I think most of these problems are solved by a series of nice friendly dunkings and frolicings in the nice warm Pacific Ocean off Australian shores. Works every time. Tunes sound so much better after that as well, if only a little foreign, but hey we can live with that.
Some people of course need to be held under for longer than others to obtain the full benefit of immersion in Australian culture and good humour. Maybe it depends on where they come from, I dunno. It works though, my son.
You guys so don't get it. It's obviously a grand social experiment, and good on them for giving it a try. Let's see what happens if you bring the Oasis Gallagher brother mentality to Irish trad. I say sit back and chill out and enjoy the show. Could be amusing... we might even see them swear on live TV or set a fiddle alight and smash it up in front of the crowd.
I just want to place on record how profoundly depressing this thread has been. If this is a cross-section of the sorts of people who now attend sessions, it makes me want to give up going to them altogether. I really wouldn't want to share a bar-room with some of them ................
tt, what it really comes down to (I think anyway), is that there is a world of difference between the *music* and (most) of those who play it. No need to be depressed about anything then. When we listen to a tune we hear the "author's" own interpretation of something and how they express that, it might be hundreds of years old, but there he/she is, right there beside you playing.
The music will be here long after the players have moved on...that's something that all of us will, maybe should, realise sooner rather than later.
I remember the posts from a few months ago as well. I offered some respectful critique, and it was taken as slagging. I think there is a lot of defensiveness, which is expected to a certain degree. This is never going to be resolved. There is nothing wrong with what the Choonz folks are doing, yet they/he comes on this site and promotes the group at a trad website, with a somewhat confrontational posture as I remember, and doesn't understand why he gets some slagging. It's a trad website, so you're going to get some slagging form the trad people who frequent the site, get over it, it doesn't make them, or you, bad people. Coming to a trad website and promoting what Chooz does is king of like me going into a bar in Belfast and talking about how much better American football is than soccer. I would probably get my ass kicked just for calling it soccer alone.
Hey Jimmy, I see lots to learn and lots not to learn in this thread. Specifically, how to make an enemy for life. How to create a reputation for yourself that people will remember. How to make yourself unwelcome. How to change the subject when things get putrid. How to pour salt in an open wound then watch suffering agony. How to shrug it off. How to fake shrugging it off. How to treat your fellow human beings. How NOT to treat your fellow human beings. Along with youth comes immaturity. How to argue a sensless point. Politicians take note of that last one. A good sense of humor keeps you sane. A poor sense of humor makes you insane. Spewing angry insults starts and loses arguments. Calm respectful logic wins arguments. Silly people are fun. Mean people are not fun. Surfeing is fun. But, I already knew that. Thanks for the lessons guys!
Hey SS I'll bring popcorn. Homebrew too if I can get it through customs. Will you show me the secret breaks off the west coast of the Outer Hebrides? There's bound to be a lighthouse to watch from and warm up with some tunes after surfing.
Now that I've read through the thread, I'd implore Dave Choonz and Dan Foster to settle your spat on your home turf of yorkshire or Bristol and leave the Manchester sessions out of this - think this is v friendly scene that doesn't need this level of agro or critique.
And if you want to succeed in music you could do well to follow the likes of McGoldrick, the consumate professional - I've never heard him slag off anyone, always plays tunes with anyone, is true to his roots and encourages everyone. Maybe this is why he is so successful and well thought of.
I know the Manc scene is friendly I've played a lot in Manchester sessions. I'm sure as hell not looking for agro, I'm just not inclined to take that level of abuse from someone I don't even know.
Q: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M: Well, I was told outside that...
Q: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M: What?
Q: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, malodorous, pervert!!!
M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q: Not at all.
M: Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!
Foster, you don't know these people. They don't know you. You'll never meet them unless you go out of your way to do so.
And, let's not forget, you started it.
Let it go. Nobody cares.
Why are tempers so high in this music? Because the stakes are so very low...
I love Monty Python. How's bout we all meet in Manchester, sing the Lumberjack song D.J.F. can back us on the fiddle if he wants. I can peddle some Albatross. Get a bunch of topless jogging hotties to chase someone off a cliff. We can all have a good chuckle and go home with a smile on our faces.
Yeah... the reason that song is so funny is that it is so absurdly *untrue*. "Looking on the bright side of life" all the time never helped anyone.
Jon K - the fact that Dan started it doesn't actually mean a thing. People say things. People make criticisms, sometimes not nice ones. If no-one started anything, nothing would ever get started! Choonz's response was simply out of proportion on an unacceptable scale. And they/he continue/s to be viciously rude and nasty, with very little provocation. And it seems this is not the first time at all.
And all this "you don't even know each other", "it's only Irish music" nonsense - please, come on. This is the 21st century: people don't need to have been in each other's physical proximity to be able to communicate, and therefore hurt and insult. An insult hurts as much, and is as real, via cyberspace as in "real life" (of course, the internet is a part of real life too).
This exact same discussion could have arisen in many, many other areas of life; it just happens that this is Irish music. It's basically "I really don't like your style, what you're doing there really grates", followed by disproportionate defence and attack.
I don't know if Choonz is still reading this (I expect he probably is), but if so, then hi! I'm Joseph (Joe1729), the guy playing with Dan in one of his videos. Feel free to leave hateful childish comments on my videos too!
Don't know bout the rest of yawl but I really do always try to look on the bright side of life. Makes me happy. I like being happy. It works for me as silly as it may seem. It really really does. I'm not gonna let some cruel person push my buttons. I'm more complicated than that. Mean people have only bothered me when I've allowed myself to be bothered. If I fire back at them it just brings me down. If someone says something mean to me, well, simply, I just won't be bothered with them. I've got better things to do. Why waste my time letting somebody have free rental space in my mind if they are mean to me? I just go surf. Surfings fun. It makes me happy. Helps me look on the bright side. Same goes for a few tunes. They make me happy. Kind people make me happy. There's lotsa things make me happy. So that's why I............. Always look on the bright side of life ta dut ta dut da dut da dut da dut and a diddly do da dee da digity dilly do waggle de yipy yi yayyy. Silly is fun too!!!
Ive not continued being 'viciously rude and nasty'. Im rapidly ceasing to care about opinions on this discussion, maybe that would have been the best idea anyway.
Plenty of people who actually matter in music dig our stuff, not naming names, check our quotes. Obviously there are some that dont, but at least dont express themselves in such a frankly dickish way. Most of your opinions here just dont matter.
I've found through the years that I cannot make others act with kindness if they don't want to. But, I can choose to be kind to you if I want to. You can do with it what you want. I wish you well. I hope you find happiness in your life. It's sad that you guys are so unhappy and need to display it in a worldwide public chat. Life is too short to spend in turmoil. I really really do wish you well.
Peace
Gary
Perhaps everyone ought to try changing their trousers and then make sure they are using the appropriate wig glue (I personally recommend ‘SyrupStik’) then everyone can get on with the important discussions like one’s hot water bottle collection of the famous and stuff like should you ever wink repeatedly at a left hand fiddle player when the tune’s in Ador and there’s a 9 in the Gregorian date designation.
This ridiculous thread now has the yhaalhouse seal of approval, or disapproval if you will. Once the trousers and the wig glue show up, the thread is officially beyond reach.
If you're not careful, yhaalhouse, you're going to be counted on to bring your trousers and wig glue to the table every time a thread gets out of hand. I for one encourage it.
Frankly I'm more interested in my Hot Water Bottle Collection these days.
Wig glue & trousers are a pleasant change from the Godwin's Law maxim about the Nazis or Hitler...
Oh! Bugger! If just gone and done the Godwin's law thing...
...and obnoxious bile spitting youths' opinions matter the least, ya damn whippersnappers. Pipe down and get the [bleep] off my lawn before I call the cops. Damn kids today, I tell ya. Harrumph. Where's my flippin' trousers? I had them on a second ago...
>"Most of your opinions here just dont matter."
Ok we'll bear this in mind the next time you come a-begging for reality tv votes like some sad x-factor contestant:
Rambling Pitchfork - its a gig, you know, money, which would help a band a little I should say. So sorry I'm not sitting on some ethereal plane or ivory tower jacking off over myself like you.
And as far as it goes - I don't care if you don't vote - none of you did that i know of. Your choice.
And, Doodling on low-whistle is a bit like the inane doodling on saxaphone we hear all the time on Keltic stuff.
If you have a duff tune, add saxaphone and the media-sorts think it is "cool".
That "cool" bit with the jazz flute went out in the 1970s.
What next? Pointy-beards, berets, leather jackets and sunglasses (to be worn inside, at night) for cool-kats drinking frothy-coffee in a poetry-club?
Jazz Club . ...... yeah man
And yeah, i notice you don't start an Í hate MikeMcGoldrick's music'session topic. Because everyone will know its pure jealousy. But you feel up to slagging my music off -
As far as DJF, learn to play your instrument. And, don't run and cry to 'the Session'when we call you on your comments.
And yes, I will come to Manchester at some point and if your comment í dare you to come and play like that'is some sort of threat, I'll be quite happy to have it out with you.
DJF - If you make a criticism of someone's work, you must be prepared for a reaction.
Choonz - If you give the public access to your music, you must be prepared to receive criticism - and DJF made his playing public, so he must be prepared for this also. (Although, to be fair to him, he did not at any point promote his own playing - it just happened to be there on his YouTube channel).
But one thing I cannot agree with, Choonz, is your insinuation that you must be a gifted and/or skilled musician to have a critical opinion on music. This, to me, is utter rubbish. I do not have half the ability of any of the members of your band, but I know what I like. Is it not reasonable to say, "I would like to have your ability, but if I had, I would use it differently"? (Actually, I like some of what you do, but there is music I would rather listen to). I know people who are avid followers of, and discerning listeners to, the music, yet have never played a note on any instrument. Certainly, a musician has a different perspective on music from the passive listener, but then, doesn't the non-playing listener also hear things in a way that a musician doesn't?
Ultimately, posters' opinions don't really matter, because you're playing the music you want to play, and a lot of people want to hear. But to suggest that someone who is not as good a musician as you is not entitled to express an opinion is ridiculous.
Is it not reasonable to say, "I would like to have your ability, but if I had, I would use it differently"?
Absolutely - but none of the posts I'm taking issue with are anything like that. More anon. Its more like -I hate it! How dare they play like that? Its not.. musical... and on and on and on in that vein. And - oh they're immature and malicious to reply in the same vein....
DJF, you''ll be laughing on the other side of your face when I do get up to Manchester.
I know plenty of musicians and non-musicians that cant tell the difference in standard between two players of the same instrument. Its not really a question of standard, its knowing what youre talking about and some people just dont have a clue.
Wow, what an incredible display of the lack of courtesy, and general human decency on display here...
I don't know which is more appalling - a player deciding to call out a popular band in public on YouTube and then spread the argument onto another site, or a popular band considering a website with 60,000+ members to be not enough of a concern that they can come on and be rude and combative (even if it is couched as being in defense of their music) without there being any repercussions...
Or maybe I'm just getting old, and think the world is going to hell, just like my grandpa used to say...
you guys are a bunch of posers - you'd be a lot more believable if you'd all stop using complete words/sentences and correct punctuation. I find it all hard to take seriously.
Just what I was thinking Rev. Most of the players i know read this site even though they don't necessarily post, and that includes the good players. This whole thing is very sour indeed and leaves a very bad impression.
Wow - this whole thread reminds me of all those years I spent playing in seedy rock-n-roll clubs where the lead guitar players would all greet each other with warm comments like "Your band sucks, dude. You should totally be opening up for US instead..."
I miss be young and angry all the time. It's SO boring to be old and happy with whomever wants to sit down and have a few tunes -
These guys would be better off focusing on playing music, which they are not bad at though they're not my taste, rather than giving it the prima donna petted-lip attitude:
The Who had a gig. Some young new band was opening for them. Nobody knew them. In walked Jimmy Page and the boys. Pete Townsend takes one look and says. "You guys are gonna bomb just like a Lead Zepplin". The new guys looked at each other and said "Hey, that's a good name for our band. Gotta drop the A in lead though. Thanks Pete". The rest is history. Power of positive thinking and calm logic. Now that's pure class!!!
To put another perspective on the band Choonz, one member has a well-deserved reputation in my area as an excellent teacher of Irish music, both privately and in workshops.
If this is your idea of public relations, I don't give a lot for this band's chances, but here's a hint for your next band: when you put your band's name on something, make it something people like. Threatening members of the public in an open forum is not something most people like. Responding graciously to criticism - even if it's annoying, like Dan's was - is something that people like.
You might consider - seriously - whether you need to hire people to keep you away from the public. It's expensive, yes, but think about how many people here aren't going to come to hear you when you come to their town, aren't going to tell their friends about this great band they heard, aren't going to buy your record... just because you couldn't keep your mouth shut and be gracious. At least get someone to manage your online presence - to answer email and post on bulletin boards and things.
If you think I'm joking, remember that "You'll be laughing out the other side of your face when I get to Manc" is now part of every on-line search for your band's name... forever. Oops.
Oh I see. Perhaps if you sell enough CDs this year, you might be able to cobble together enough brass to buy a new fiddle come Christmas seeing as your fiddler's erratic bowing might just wreck his current one.
Oh and also, sorry for being a cheeky little twit when first posting the criticism on YouTube. I really didn't expect it to degenerate to this. Because if I had, I wouldn't have done it.
Refering to someone's music as "really bad"and implying their playing is insensitive and grating isn't criticism but insult. You can't expect to talk like that with impunity. I don't blame them for getting steamed though they've certainly taken it pretty far.
I'd never heard of this band and was expecting the video to be a lame Pogues knock-off. I prefer different styles myself, but these guys can play.
There is no context in which you can describe someone's music as "really bad" and not offer offence to the players. If you do this, some degree of pushback is inevitable and warranted.
I would certainly expect them to post back on the sites where they've been insulted and stick up for themselves. And doing this from website to website is intentionally escalating the situation. You could certainly have expressed your admiration of Mr. O'Neill's playing in some other way.
After reading through this discussion yesterday while I was at work (it was a slow day and I had nothing better to do temporarily), I decided to watch some Choonz videos on YouTube when I got home from work yesterday evening.
I liked what I heard and saw of Choonz. Because I wanted to get as objective an idea as possible of Choonz' playing, I kept my head clear and didn't drink any beer while I watched their videos.
I forgot to find and watch any videos by Aidan O'Neill to compare and contrast his playing to Choonz.
Also, I don't know how to find any of D.J.F.'s videos so I can listen to his playing for comparison and contrast--if he even wants me to listen. I would like to listen to D.J.F.'s playing for purposes of comparison and contrast but I am not going to make any comments about his playing unless he asks me what I think of his playing.
Having played hundreds of gigs and sessions, I agree with Bogman when he says they are different things.
Boatpiper, it will probably be too difficult to get homebrew or Shiner Bock through customs. Also, if we are going to perform Monty Python songs, someone needs to bring a dead parrot to the party.
OrganicPeatCreature is correct when he points out that you don't have to be a gifted or skilled musician to have an opinion on music. You don't even have to be a musician to have an opinion about what music you like or don't like or which musicians you like to listen to or don't like listening to.
For example, I don't like the way Glenn Gould played the music of J.S. Bach.
I may not have as much musical ability or talent as Choonz or OrganicPeatCreature, but I do know how I want to use my abilities and where and with whom I feel comfortable sharing my musical talent.
Someone on this web site told me that I should quit playing my electronic keyboard as a piano at the local sessions and learn to play a "real" instrument such as a fiddle. I ignored this person because I am more comfortable and much better at being a sideman/backup musician than I am playing the melody whether or not I am playing Irish music or some other type or genre of music.
To me, this is an example of making the correct choice of how I am going to use my musical talents and abilities.
what i'd like to know, is that if you didn't like the video D.J.F, why comment on it???
if you cant say anything nice, how about not saying anything atall/
i've heard a little bit of choonz, and personally i think they're really good.
so.... how about, yourself, and a few overly opinionated members of this website who like to leave comments just to p*ss people off, keeping their unwanted opinions???
Choonz
Choonz
Watched one of their videos (one in response to a vid with Aidan O'Neill playing Farewell to Erin) so I decided to post this comment:
"Is it just me or is this version of Farewell to Erin really bad in comparison to Aidan O'Neill's masterful sensitive playing on the video that this is in response to?
Contemporary noodling during the middle of tunes really starts to grate"
Deary me that touched a nerve. The guys then proceeded to comment this is response:
"It is you - at least we can play our instruments! Having checked out your playing, i'm still laughing at the temerity. Whether you're the one double stopping or your mate, you're shite.
I mean, if you're looking for 'masterful playing' ,limply playing 3 tunes using somebody else's shitty arrangement and barely able to pull off the few ornaments you attempt isn't it.
I can't believe you play a WORSE version of the same tune - and then give us your abuse. Go f*ck yourself"
I'm actually laughing at how well these guys respond to a bit of criticism
Oh and they were even so nice as to leave me a comment on my channel:
"you are COMPLETELY codsh*t on the fiddle by the way. How dare you slag us off - and your playing 'grates'on my ears too. It's derivative - and not especially trad if you were wondering if limply doubly stopping accompaniment is either tasteful or trad - IT ISN'T! Learn some ornaments. (Instead of that hippy-trippy-b*llocks.)
F*ck you very much
Choonz."
Charming.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
I'm personally 50/50 about the "contemporary noodling" thing... many times, the extent to which Choonz uses it does often grate on my ears, though. No doubt, they're good musicians, but they over-do it, in my opinion.
Despite however good they may be, I've long since been turned off by them as people... I get tired of the, what seems to me, egotistical nonsense and the way they treat any criticism, constructive or not.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by JosephC
Re: Choonz
Do we really need to know all this?
I say don't sink to their level. take a slap on the jaw like a man then forget it and move on. Don't bother broadcasting all the little kiddy details here. I only say this because I've done the same as the above myself and am not proud of it.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: Choonz
I like that Aidan O'Neill video a lot - he has a really nice version of that tune
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by airport
Re: Choonz
I think I'll try to learn how to play it on my vacuum cleaner. Anybody want to accompany me on the chainsaw and the Axe? Yes, that's axe with an e.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
I agree with Danny.
... and even so, I can't resist. I've watched (the first couple of seconds of) a number of Choonz recordings now. I can't stand what they do. I don't know how it relates to music, let alone trad. Technically, they seem more than proficient, so I'm puzzled by them doing what they do. Quite a lot of the vids they've got out there are badly out of tune as well, btw. The whistle is often flat. Don't know why they do that ...
Still, this is just a personal opinion. I think your comment seemed fair, D.J.K. , and certainly didn't justify the sort of abuse you received in response. In my experience, decent musicians take all criticism - even the really aggressive sort - as something to learn from. I haven't come across proper musicians who have the sort of arrogant, bullying attitude that appears to have been displayed by Choonz towards you, D.J.F.
And that Aidan O'Neill vid has cheered me up for the day. Totally brilliant.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Choonz
I am fairly handy on the chainsaw and do a wonderful if brief number with the wire cutters.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by mcknowall
Re: Choonz
Well D.J.F. if you're going to give criticism then you better be able to take it. What the hell do you expect? It's easy for folk to use the net to slag others and make out they are some sort of expert. Happens here all the time. They are quite within their rights to be as honest about what they thought of your clip as you were with your thoughts on theirs.
Having said that, the Choonz guys really, really need to learn how to be gracious in accepting criticism. They are very good players and anyone who can't see through their own taste to realize that is missing something. It's not my taste either but fair play to them. However, along with good playing a thicker skin is required as there are always people who hate your music. It's easy for us to forget that the closer to pure drop trad is, the less people there are who like it.
They went way over the top with their reply but at the same time you started it. Choonz, if you're reading, great playing but please, do yourselves a favour and by all means reply to criticism but you must learn to take it on the chin. There are many many knocks to come no matter what direction you go in. You can't please everyone.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by bogman
Re: Choonz
"It's easy for us to forget that the closer to pure drop trad is, the less people there are who like it." - I mean by that that I consider your style as valid as pure drop, though many here would strongly disagree.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by bogman
Re: Choonz
LINK?
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Fishmonger
Re: Choonz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4nHMuDIu8I
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
I've just watched both videos - Aidan O'Neill's and the linked Choonz - and I really can't see what the fuss is about, musically speaking. We're not comparing like with like: one was a traditional performance of a tune by a very talented fiddler in front of a audience (was it in a competition?), and would be acceptable in any session; the other was a modern free development of the tune in a paid gig on stage by three very talented musicians, and would probably not be acceptable in a session. I have no argument with these two very different approaches to the music - they both have their intrinsic validity and are intended for different audiences (which of course may have members in common).
Regarding the discourse on YouTube between "msrbbc" and "DJF", all I need to say is that YT clearly doesn't have the standards of civility expected of us on this website!
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Choonz
Its rare that we receive such criticism (and slagging off) in person. Just because its the internet, dont assume there wont be a response. I wonder how many of you would say what you have if you met us. And wouldnt expect a response.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
By the way, Djf, im David, the fiddle player with Choonz. My girlfriend Maeve is at Uni in Manchester so il be turning up at sessions and doing gigs there from time to time. Maybe you'd like to be so critiquing after I've sat next to you in a session.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
Hey Choonz, I thought your music was great. Subscribed to your channel too.
Cheers
Chris
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Fishmonger
Re: Choonz
I dare you to play like that in a Manc session
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
You don't seem to get it D.J.F. , gigs and sessions are different things.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by bogman
Re: Choonz
I know the difference bewtween a sesh and a gig but I'm more concerned about the lack of respect these people show to others. Just a quick browse through the various self penned submissions and recordings that "Choonz" have put up here paints a pretty bad picture of them. Not to mention the rubbish offensive names for the said tunes.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Lack of respect mate? We never start the slagging. The rude names are a joke. You do miss the point bigtime.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
Oh so if you don't start the slagging then you are always respectful, why not re-read the OP.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
You slagged us on youtube. Thats what came first. You do an awful lot of slagging on youtube according to my brother too.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
Hey! How 'bout those four goals by Rooney yesterday against Hull! That was really something, eh? Oh - I'm sorry. Were you two having a pointless internet p*ssing contest? My bad. Sorry to interrupt. Carry on.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Choonz
Who's bringing the beer and the popcorn?
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Choonz
The surf is 6-8 ft and glassy perfect. Time for me to go paddle out for a session.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
But I bet you can't beat the surfing in Glasgow. Mmmmm..... the Clyde......
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Choonz
Would I be able to see you surfing form the 'Northampton lighthouse'?
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by john knoss
Re: Choonz
'from' grrr rotten typo.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by john knoss
Re: Choonz
Doodling on low-whistle is a bit like the inane doodling on saxaphone we hear all the time on Keltic stuff.
If you have a duff tune, add saxaphone and the media-sorts think it is "cool".
That "cool" bit with the jazz flute went out in the 1970s.
What next? Pointy-beards, berets, leather jackets and sunglasses (to be worn inside, at night) for cool-kats drinking frothy-coffee in a poetry-club?
Jazz Club . ...... yeah man!
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by geoffwright
Re: Choonz
Right. But its not jazz is it just because its improvised. And it does just happen to be cool, not 'cool'.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
I remember you Choonz guys, you came on this site a few months ago to promote yourselves, and got all nasty when you didn't get universal praise. Didn't make a very good impression, and not making a very good impression now, I am sorry to say. Regardless of the provocation, one is always best served by responding in a gentlemanly or ladylike manner, is what I was always taught, otherwise, you become part of the problem.
# Posted on January 24th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Choonz
The problem lies as much in the quality of the criticism on both sides as with the music. Let's face it, ITM is a minority taste. A lot of the music out there in the world is not really to my taste, probably not to yours. So what? Choonz' music isn't mine either, but it would go down well in the background in an Irish tourist shop I'm sure. It's not a problem if I don't like it - it is, after all, quite competent in its way. Discussing it is a dead end.
BUT - DJF's "criticism" barely deserves the name. Essentially it just says "bad, bad, me no like".
Having said that, the response from msrbbc is equally empty but even more offensive.
Sad. And sad that this empty-headed squabble has made its way here.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Linsey Doyle
Re: Choonz
Personally I don't care too much for the approach to those tunes and they don't seem to be 100% in time with each other, but I appreciate these people are proficient at what they do. However as Al says they have blown all street cred by responding in such an arrogant manner. Not that DJF did himself or anyone any favours by posting his gripe here and continuing to go on about it after being admonished and beseeched not to.
2 words:
Grow Up.
3 more words to both sides:
Let it Go.
What a waste of time and cyber-electrons.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: Choonz
And just to add. I doubt now if I would ever go to a choonz gig after vewing this little episode. (Not that they would now be welcome in South East London after this. I can make sure of that.) As for the other gland in hand merchant, djf, don't even think about it.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: Choonz
Amen, Danny
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by bc_box_player
Re: Choonz
Yes Danny I've let it go now. One question, what do you mean when you say "As for the other gland in hand merchant, djf, don't even think about it." What's a gland in hand merchant?
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Oh right it means tosser, fair play danny, you're most welcome in Manc
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Don't we have enough arguments on here without importing them from YouTube (surely the LCD) or somewhere?
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Bren
Re: Choonz
I think most of these problems are solved by a series of nice friendly dunkings and frolicings in the nice warm Pacific Ocean off Australian shores. Works every time. Tunes sound so much better after that as well, if only a little foreign, but hey we can live with that.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Choonz
Didge - you remind me of the punchline to an old joke:
"There's just one problem, Father... when you baptize them, how long do you hold them under?"
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Choonz
Some people of course need to be held under for longer than others to obtain the full benefit of immersion in Australian culture and good humour. Maybe it depends on where they come from, I dunno. It works though, my son.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Choonz
You guys so don't get it. It's obviously a grand social experiment, and good on them for giving it a try. Let's see what happens if you bring the Oasis Gallagher brother mentality to Irish trad. I say sit back and chill out and enjoy the show. Could be amusing... we might even see them swear on live TV or set a fiddle alight and smash it up in front of the crowd.
Rock.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Dr. Dow
Re: Choonz
Hasn't Ashley McIsaac already broken that ground somewhat?
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Choonz
I hope you're not saying they're unoriginal. Please tell me I'm reading into your words something that isn't there.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Dr. Dow
Re: Choonz
They're a part of a longstanding and well regarded tradition of artists being tools and making it part of their act.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Choonz
Or you can take it even further and become nasty tool discharge. It's all relative.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Dr. Dow
Re: Choonz
I just want to place on record how profoundly depressing this thread has been. If this is a cross-section of the sorts of people who now attend sessions, it makes me want to give up going to them altogether. I really wouldn't want to share a bar-room with some of them ................
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by teetotaller
Re: Choonz
tt, what it really comes down to (I think anyway), is that there is a world of difference between the *music* and (most) of those who play it. No need to be depressed about anything then. When we listen to a tune we hear the "author's" own interpretation of something and how they express that, it might be hundreds of years old, but there he/she is, right there beside you playing.
The music will be here long after the players have moved on...that's something that all of us will, maybe should, realise sooner rather than later.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Choonz
I remember the posts from a few months ago as well. I offered some respectful critique, and it was taken as slagging. I think there is a lot of defensiveness, which is expected to a certain degree. This is never going to be resolved. There is nothing wrong with what the Choonz folks are doing, yet they/he comes on this site and promotes the group at a trad website, with a somewhat confrontational posture as I remember, and doesn't understand why he gets some slagging. It's a trad website, so you're going to get some slagging form the trad people who frequent the site, get over it, it doesn't make them, or you, bad people. Coming to a trad website and promoting what Chooz does is king of like me going into a bar in Belfast and talking about how much better American football is than soccer. I would probably get my ass kicked just for calling it soccer alone.
Anyway, this is a silly thread. Carry on.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Choonz
@Silver Spear
".. well regarded tradition of artists being tools and making it part of their act."
I mis-read "tools" as "fools".
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Choonz
Hey Jimmy, I see lots to learn and lots not to learn in this thread. Specifically, how to make an enemy for life. How to create a reputation for yourself that people will remember. How to make yourself unwelcome. How to change the subject when things get putrid. How to pour salt in an open wound then watch suffering agony. How to shrug it off. How to fake shrugging it off. How to treat your fellow human beings. How NOT to treat your fellow human beings. Along with youth comes immaturity. How to argue a sensless point. Politicians take note of that last one. A good sense of humor keeps you sane. A poor sense of humor makes you insane. Spewing angry insults starts and loses arguments. Calm respectful logic wins arguments. Silly people are fun. Mean people are not fun. Surfeing is fun. But, I already knew that. Thanks for the lessons guys!
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
SilverSpear, I will be glad to bring the beer (Shiner Bock) if you will bring the popcorn.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by fauxcelt
Re: Choonz
Hey SS I'll bring popcorn. Homebrew too if I can get it through customs. Will you show me the secret breaks off the west coast of the Outer Hebrides? There's bound to be a lighthouse to watch from and warm up with some tunes after surfing.
# Posted on January 25th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
Now that I've read through the thread, I'd implore Dave Choonz and Dan Foster to settle your spat on your home turf of yorkshire or Bristol and leave the Manchester sessions out of this - think this is v friendly scene that doesn't need this level of agro or critique.
And if you want to succeed in music you could do well to follow the likes of McGoldrick, the consumate professional - I've never heard him slag off anyone, always plays tunes with anyone, is true to his roots and encourages everyone. Maybe this is why he is so successful and well thought of.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by portnasaol
Re: Choonz
I know the Manc scene is friendly I've played a lot in Manchester sessions. I'm sure as hell not looking for agro, I'm just not inclined to take that level of abuse from someone I don't even know.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Q: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M: Well, I was told outside that...
Q: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M: What?
Q: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, malodorous, pervert!!!
M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q: Not at all.
M: Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Lint - upon - Tweed
& now for monty pythons flying circus
Ah, the internet ~ it never forgets;
4 Yorkshiremen - - >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13JK5kChbRw&feature
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Choonz
Foster, you don't know these people. They don't know you. You'll never meet them unless you go out of your way to do so.
And, let's not forget, you started it.
Let it go. Nobody cares.
Why are tempers so high in this music? Because the stakes are so very low...
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Choonz
I love Monty Python. How's bout we all meet in Manchester, sing the Lumberjack song D.J.F. can back us on the fiddle if he wants. I can peddle some Albatross. Get a bunch of topless jogging hotties to chase someone off a cliff. We can all have a good chuckle and go home with a smile on our faces.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
Always look on the bright side of life ta dut ta dut ta dut da dut da dut.............................
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
Yeah... the reason that song is so funny is that it is so absurdly *untrue*. "Looking on the bright side of life" all the time never helped anyone.
Jon K - the fact that Dan started it doesn't actually mean a thing. People say things. People make criticisms, sometimes not nice ones. If no-one started anything, nothing would ever get started! Choonz's response was simply out of proportion on an unacceptable scale. And they/he continue/s to be viciously rude and nasty, with very little provocation. And it seems this is not the first time at all.
And all this "you don't even know each other", "it's only Irish music" nonsense - please, come on. This is the 21st century: people don't need to have been in each other's physical proximity to be able to communicate, and therefore hurt and insult. An insult hurts as much, and is as real, via cyberspace as in "real life" (of course, the internet is a part of real life too).
This exact same discussion could have arisen in many, many other areas of life; it just happens that this is Irish music. It's basically "I really don't like your style, what you're doing there really grates", followed by disproportionate defence and attack.
I don't know if Choonz is still reading this (I expect he probably is), but if so, then hi! I'm Joseph (Joe1729), the guy playing with Dan in one of his videos. Feel free to leave hateful childish comments on my videos too!
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Joe CSS
Re: Choonz
Don't know bout the rest of yawl but I really do always try to look on the bright side of life. Makes me happy. I like being happy. It works for me as silly as it may seem. It really really does. I'm not gonna let some cruel person push my buttons. I'm more complicated than that. Mean people have only bothered me when I've allowed myself to be bothered. If I fire back at them it just brings me down. If someone says something mean to me, well, simply, I just won't be bothered with them. I've got better things to do. Why waste my time letting somebody have free rental space in my mind if they are mean to me? I just go surf. Surfings fun. It makes me happy. Helps me look on the bright side. Same goes for a few tunes. They make me happy. Kind people make me happy. There's lotsa things make me happy. So that's why I............. Always look on the bright side of life ta dut ta dut da dut da dut da dut and a diddly do da dee da digity dilly do waggle de yipy yi yayyy. Silly is fun too!!!
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
Ive not continued being 'viciously rude and nasty'. Im rapidly ceasing to care about opinions on this discussion, maybe that would have been the best idea anyway.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
You wanna always be happy? Take Prozac.
Oh, it's not real happiness? Exactly!
There's more than one emotion in life, mate.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Joe CSS
Re: Choonz
Plenty of people who actually matter in music dig our stuff, not naming names, check our quotes. Obviously there are some that dont, but at least dont express themselves in such a frankly dickish way. Most of your opinions here just dont matter.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
"Most of your opinions here just dont matter."
So why do you bother to get wound up and reply?
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by minijackpot
Re: Choonz
I've found through the years that I cannot make others act with kindness if they don't want to. But, I can choose to be kind to you if I want to. You can do with it what you want. I wish you well. I hope you find happiness in your life. It's sad that you guys are so unhappy and need to display it in a worldwide public chat. Life is too short to spend in turmoil. I really really do wish you well.
Peace
Gary
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
'dig our stuff'
I really must catch up with young peoples parlance I seem to be out of touch.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by bazouki dave
Re: Choonz
Or should that be groovy, fab or gear?
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by minijackpot
Re: Choonz
Sick.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Choonz
Perhaps everyone ought to try changing their trousers and then make sure they are using the appropriate wig glue (I personally recommend ‘SyrupStik’) then everyone can get on with the important discussions like one’s hot water bottle collection of the famous and stuff like should you ever wink repeatedly at a left hand fiddle player when the tune’s in Ador and there’s a 9 in the Gregorian date designation.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by yhaalhouse
Re: Choonz
Is this the thread that Wod was threatening to put up
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by silas
Re: Choonz
unfortunetly Silas
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by bazouki dave
Re: Choonz
yhaalhouse -
This ridiculous thread now has the yhaalhouse seal of approval, or disapproval if you will. Once the trousers and the wig glue show up, the thread is officially beyond reach.
If you're not careful, yhaalhouse, you're going to be counted on to bring your trousers and wig glue to the table every time a thread gets out of hand. I for one encourage it.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Jimmy B
Wig Glue & Trousers...
Frankly I'm more interested in my Hot Water Bottle Collection these days.
Wig glue & trousers are a pleasant change from the Godwin's Law maxim about the Nazis or Hitler...
Oh! Bugger! If just gone and done the Godwin's law thing...
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by yhaalhouse
Re: Choonz
"Most of your opinions here just dont matter."
...and obnoxious bile spitting youths' opinions matter the least, ya damn whippersnappers. Pipe down and get the [bleep] off my lawn before I call the cops. Damn kids today, I tell ya. Harrumph. Where's my flippin' trousers? I had them on a second ago...
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Choonz
>"Most of your opinions here just dont matter."
Ok we'll bear this in mind the next time you come a-begging for reality tv votes like some sad x-factor contestant:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23182/comments#comment481704
- chris
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Choonz
>"Most of your opinions here just dont matter."
Ok we'll bear this in mind the next time you come a-begging for reality tv votes like some sad x-factor contestant:
Rambling Pitchfork - its a gig, you know, money, which would help a band a little I should say. So sorry I'm not sitting on some ethereal plane or ivory tower jacking off over myself like you.
And as far as it goes - I don't care if you don't vote - none of you did that i know of. Your choice.
And, Doodling on low-whistle is a bit like the inane doodling on saxaphone we hear all the time on Keltic stuff.
If you have a duff tune, add saxaphone and the media-sorts think it is "cool".
That "cool" bit with the jazz flute went out in the 1970s.
What next? Pointy-beards, berets, leather jackets and sunglasses (to be worn inside, at night) for cool-kats drinking frothy-coffee in a poetry-club?
Jazz Club . ...... yeah man
And yeah, i notice you don't start an Í hate MikeMcGoldrick's music'session topic. Because everyone will know its pure jealousy. But you feel up to slagging my music off -
As far as DJF, learn to play your instrument. And, don't run and cry to 'the Session'when we call you on your comments.
And yes, I will come to Manchester at some point and if your comment í dare you to come and play like that'is some sort of threat, I'll be quite happy to have it out with you.
Paul
Choonz
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by TheHappyCamper
Re: Choonz
DJF - If you make a criticism of someone's work, you must be prepared for a reaction.
Choonz - If you give the public access to your music, you must be prepared to receive criticism - and DJF made his playing public, so he must be prepared for this also. (Although, to be fair to him, he did not at any point promote his own playing - it just happened to be there on his YouTube channel).
But one thing I cannot agree with, Choonz, is your insinuation that you must be a gifted and/or skilled musician to have a critical opinion on music. This, to me, is utter rubbish. I do not have half the ability of any of the members of your band, but I know what I like. Is it not reasonable to say, "I would like to have your ability, but if I had, I would use it differently"? (Actually, I like some of what you do, but there is music I would rather listen to). I know people who are avid followers of, and discerning listeners to, the music, yet have never played a note on any instrument. Certainly, a musician has a different perspective on music from the passive listener, but then, doesn't the non-playing listener also hear things in a way that a musician doesn't?
Ultimately, posters' opinions don't really matter, because you're playing the music you want to play, and a lot of people want to hear. But to suggest that someone who is not as good a musician as you is not entitled to express an opinion is ridiculous.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Choonz
HappyCamper,
I was laughing not crying.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
OrganicPeatCreature:
Is it not reasonable to say, "I would like to have your ability, but if I had, I would use it differently"?
Absolutely - but none of the posts I'm taking issue with are anything like that. More anon. Its more like -I hate it! How dare they play like that? Its not.. musical... and on and on and on in that vein. And - oh they're immature and malicious to reply in the same vein....
DJF, you''ll be laughing on the other side of your face when I do get up to Manchester.
Paul.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by TheHappyCamper
Re: Choonz
I know plenty of musicians and non-musicians that cant tell the difference in standard between two players of the same instrument. Its not really a question of standard, its knowing what youre talking about and some people just dont have a clue.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
Dan, I suggest you stop whining as 'its really starting to grate'.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
You guys need some vinegar for those chips you lug around on your shoulders?
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Choonz
Wow, what an incredible display of the lack of courtesy, and general human decency on display here...
I don't know which is more appalling - a player deciding to call out a popular band in public on YouTube and then spread the argument onto another site, or a popular band considering a website with 60,000+ members to be not enough of a concern that they can come on and be rude and combative (even if it is couched as being in defense of their music) without there being any repercussions...
Or maybe I'm just getting old, and think the world is going to hell, just like my grandpa used to say...
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by Reverend
Re: Choonz
you guys are a bunch of posers - you'd be a lot more believable if you'd all stop using complete words/sentences and correct punctuation. I find it all hard to take seriously.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by airport
Re: Choonz
Just what I was thinking Rev. Most of the players i know read this site even though they don't necessarily post, and that includes the good players. This whole thing is very sour indeed and leaves a very bad impression.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by bogman
Re: Choonz
I suppose it's just lads being lads. Dan's 19, I doubt any of Choonz is older than that. Just raging testosterone in full bloom.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to my rocking chair. These crosswords aren't going to do themselves you know.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Choonz
You're not so old yourself SWFL - I fear you've fallen in with a bad crowd down there in southern Florida!
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by airport
Re: Choonz
Wow - this whole thread reminds me of all those years I spent playing in seedy rock-n-roll clubs where the lead guitar players would all greet each other with warm comments like "Your band sucks, dude. You should totally be opening up for US instead..."
I miss be young and angry all the time. It's SO boring to be old and happy with whomever wants to sit down and have a few tunes -
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Choonz
These guys would be better off focusing on playing music, which they are not bad at though they're not my taste, rather than giving it the prima donna petted-lip attitude:
more of the choonz, less of the chuntz.
- chris
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Choonz
The Who had a gig. Some young new band was opening for them. Nobody knew them. In walked Jimmy Page and the boys. Pete Townsend takes one look and says. "You guys are gonna bomb just like a Lead Zepplin". The new guys looked at each other and said "Hey, that's a good name for our band. Gotta drop the A in lead though. Thanks Pete". The rest is history. Power of positive thinking and calm logic. Now that's pure class!!!
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Choonz
To put another perspective on the band Choonz, one member has a well-deserved reputation in my area as an excellent teacher of Irish music, both privately and in workshops.
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Choonz
If this is your idea of public relations, I don't give a lot for this band's chances, but here's a hint for your next band: when you put your band's name on something, make it something people like. Threatening members of the public in an open forum is not something most people like. Responding graciously to criticism - even if it's annoying, like Dan's was - is something that people like.
You might consider - seriously - whether you need to hire people to keep you away from the public. It's expensive, yes, but think about how many people here aren't going to come to hear you when you come to their town, aren't going to tell their friends about this great band they heard, aren't going to buy your record... just because you couldn't keep your mouth shut and be gracious. At least get someone to manage your online presence - to answer email and post on bulletin boards and things.
If you think I'm joking, remember that "You'll be laughing out the other side of your face when I get to Manc" is now part of every on-line search for your band's name... forever. Oops.
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Choonz
Ominous stuff. Who wants to buy a cd?
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
Your mum does.
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by woD
Re: Choonz
No, my parents already have one and have proceeded to bootleg it.
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by Choonz
Re: Choonz
Oh I see. Perhaps if you sell enough CDs this year, you might be able to cobble together enough brass to buy a new fiddle come Christmas seeing as your fiddler's erratic bowing might just wreck his current one.
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Btw, guys, I'm past seriousness now. This thread has become a joke. Can't we just leave it at that? Night
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Oh and also, sorry for being a cheeky little twit when first posting the criticism on YouTube. I really didn't expect it to degenerate to this. Because if I had, I wouldn't have done it.
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Jokes Dan? That's we've got covered. I still play one your finest compositions, by the way. A good lad ya are.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/8515
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Choonz
My God, I totally forgot about that tune (maybe down to the fact I scribbled it down in about 5 mins)!
That's a joke of a musical piece if I ever saw / heard one!!
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
Oh sure, total goof, but then everyone asks me "What tune was that?" and then I get to tell the whole saga!
Those not in the know will have to follow the nonsense on the Comments tab of the above link.
# Posted on January 27th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Choonz
Refering to someone's music as "really bad"and implying their playing is insensitive and grating isn't criticism but insult. You can't expect to talk like that with impunity. I don't blame them for getting steamed though they've certainly taken it pretty far.
I'd never heard of this band and was expecting the video to be a lame Pogues knock-off. I prefer different styles myself, but these guys can play.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by Steve L
Re: Choonz
It was really bad.....in comparison.
Please don't take my words out of context. Aidan O'Neill's playing is sublime to say the least.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
There is no context in which you can describe someone's music as "really bad" and not offer offence to the players. If you do this, some degree of pushback is inevitable and warranted.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by Steve L
Re: Choonz
What is this degree of pushback that you advocate?
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by D.J.F.
Re: Choonz
I would certainly expect them to post back on the sites where they've been insulted and stick up for themselves. And doing this from website to website is intentionally escalating the situation. You could certainly have expressed your admiration of Mr. O'Neill's playing in some other way.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by Steve L
Re: Choonz
After reading through this discussion yesterday while I was at work (it was a slow day and I had nothing better to do temporarily), I decided to watch some Choonz videos on YouTube when I got home from work yesterday evening.
I liked what I heard and saw of Choonz. Because I wanted to get as objective an idea as possible of Choonz' playing, I kept my head clear and didn't drink any beer while I watched their videos.
I forgot to find and watch any videos by Aidan O'Neill to compare and contrast his playing to Choonz.
Also, I don't know how to find any of D.J.F.'s videos so I can listen to his playing for comparison and contrast--if he even wants me to listen. I would like to listen to D.J.F.'s playing for purposes of comparison and contrast but I am not going to make any comments about his playing unless he asks me what I think of his playing.
Having played hundreds of gigs and sessions, I agree with Bogman when he says they are different things.
Boatpiper, it will probably be too difficult to get homebrew or Shiner Bock through customs. Also, if we are going to perform Monty Python songs, someone needs to bring a dead parrot to the party.
OrganicPeatCreature is correct when he points out that you don't have to be a gifted or skilled musician to have an opinion on music. You don't even have to be a musician to have an opinion about what music you like or don't like or which musicians you like to listen to or don't like listening to.
For example, I don't like the way Glenn Gould played the music of J.S. Bach.
I may not have as much musical ability or talent as Choonz or OrganicPeatCreature, but I do know how I want to use my abilities and where and with whom I feel comfortable sharing my musical talent.
Someone on this web site told me that I should quit playing my electronic keyboard as a piano at the local sessions and learn to play a "real" instrument such as a fiddle. I ignored this person because I am more comfortable and much better at being a sideman/backup musician than I am playing the melody whether or not I am playing Irish music or some other type or genre of music.
To me, this is an example of making the correct choice of how I am going to use my musical talents and abilities.
Laurence
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by fauxcelt
Re: Choonz
If you click on D.J.F.'s name at the end of a post, it will take you to his member info. There's a link there to youtube vids of his playing.
# Posted on January 30th 2010 by Steve L
Re: Choonz
Thank you Steve L
# Posted on January 30th 2010 by fauxcelt
Re: Choonz
what i'd like to know, is that if you didn't like the video D.J.F, why comment on it???
if you cant say anything nice, how about not saying anything atall/
i've heard a little bit of choonz, and personally i think they're really good.
so.... how about, yourself, and a few overly opinionated members of this website who like to leave comments just to p*ss people off, keeping their unwanted opinions???
# Posted on April 28th 2010 by FastEddie