Here's the deal. Tons of times at sessions the 'seasoned' type of sessioneer will shun and puff and huff at a common tune being played. A fiddle teacher I know would do anything to avoid teaching tunes requested by the class such as the mason's apron and the bucks of oranmore. (they bore the teacher i think).
Right. Happens a lot I am sure.
But then I chanced upon Matt Molloy and Lunny doing the Bucks on Youtube and I was utterly staggered by this 'common ' tune. It reminded me of why I started to enjoy and play this music.
So here goes.......I love the Bucks of Oranmore, The gravel walks, the harvest home, out on the ocean, the kesh ........ and all the other bloody great tunes that some people just wont play! Viva la Oranmore!
For the longest time I didn't want to hear the Kesh ever again. I'd heard it so many times, and most of them were nothing I wanted to hear again. It seemed that it was a tune that had been played well once, and then had become everyone's first tune, which meant that it was the default jig for a lot of people. It turned up in songs, played by people who knew one jig, and that was it. It was the tune that the beginner would scrape out when pressed for a tune at the session. It was played badly every way you can imagine. I came to hate the tune.
Then one time I decided to take it seriously, and play it as if it were a tune I liked. And I listened to it.
And now I don't mind it at all. I don't even mind if the beginner scrapes it out at the session. I can always find something in it to play.
Maybe I'll get sick of it again, but right now I think getting sick of a tune is more a sign of a boring player than a boring tune.
We should never lose track of why we play traditional music.Trad has given me lots of enjoyment over the years and I have never been bored by 'common tunes'. Such tunes have an intrinsic richness and beauty, without which, sessions would be uninviting and lacking in depth.
Some people react that way because they are poseurs. Other
times it could be that the tune has been over-played at that
session; the visitor doesn't realise that regulars need a break
from it.
I think part of the problem lies within the fact that the 'common tunes' are often the first ones that beginners learn, so when they're pulled out at a session, they're often played slowly and poorly. Everybody's got to start somewhere, and most sessions that I have played in will gladly play those tunes with a beginner to help encourage them.
And there's also the novelty idea. The old saying goes that your favorite tune is the last one you learned, because you're still discovering the subtleties and exploring the curves. (We're still talking about tunes here... I think... )
I think people should take some time to breathe some life back into the standards every now and then, and re-discover how great they can be. (I remember my first teacher falling in love with playing the Irish Washerwoman after hearing an old-timer play it beautifully. She played that tune numerous times at sessions over the course of a couple of months, and people were consistently surprised, but also enjoyed playing it...) Avoid overdoing it, though. A steady diet of standards would drive me batty pretty quickly. Variety is the spice of life, after all...
I wonder, are there "standards" that people *don't* get tired of? I've heard Woman of the House at nearly every session I've ever been to, but never seen anyone wince or roll their eyes at it. Cracking tune. The same seems to hold true for Garrett Barry's (the jig at least), Morning Dew, and Toss the Feathers (both the Edor and Dor tunes)--all bog standards from what I can hear, but no one seems to despise them. Maybe a show of hands here will prove me wrong....
You can break out the Wise Maid pretty much anywhere without *ahem* tossing anyone's feathers.
When I lived in Berkeley, someone would invariably play Christmas Eve at every session. I never minded -- it's one of my favorite tunes, and seems to resonate pretty well with other players, too.
You can also get away with The Merry Blacksmith and Bird in the Bush. They're nice tunes, and show up in so many different sets that their inclusion tends to be pretty easily forgiven.
The Jig of Slurs/Athol Highlanders is at a sweet spot -- common, but not overplayed -- that it's usually quite welcomed.
Now, here's a question. Aside from the OP's list, are there any other tunes that are decidedly NOT welcome at your session because of their being overplayed?
It's more likely that your teacher is refusing to teach The Bucks because it's not a beginner's tune. There are plenty of tunes that people new to the music can readily make half decent. But unless you've been at this a while, you'll lack the freedom to make The Bucks anything more than a repetitive dirge.
The Bucks is indeed one of the great giants of the tunes we have. An absolute out and out belter. But it's much much more than the sum of its notes. There is such a gulf between playing it well and merely playing its notes. I'm not saying it's a hard tune, or even that it's hard to play well ... it's just that the "play well" bit can only come from experience of the music. It cannot be taught. You can say this of all diddley tunes of course, but it seems more pronounced with a tune like this.
So lay off this tune until you can play a bit better - otherwise you'll ruin it for yourself later.
I'm with Kiparsky. It says more about the players than it does about the tune. The more advanced sessions where the people are nice, don't turn up their noses at tunes. They try to make it fun for everyone.
Tunes are not like jokes, to be groaned at if you've heard them: they are like songs, that lift the spirit when everyone joins in. if you are not enjoying it, you are doing something wrong. Don't blame the music.
OK, so what's this tune?: rumpty-tumpty, rumpty-tumpty, rumpty-tumpty tum tum tum tum, tum tum tumpetty tumpetty tum tum tum tum - time for a pint or a smoke...
Ha! You've taken a tilt there at the great majority of God fearing citizens of the Republic of Ireland! Go on any school trip, pub sing song, soccer game, GAA, rugby etc. and you'll hear the afore mentioned sung with great gusto. These days, IT is the ordinary mans standard - the common mans version of a novice tune player stuttering over the Kesh. I'd even say for the average Irish person, these days, The Fields would define Irish music for them. Sad but true. It maybe the lowest common denominator but that's the way of it and and we might as well appreciate it for what it is and join in!!
Interesting. Are you saying that we should love and enjoy The Fields and The Kesh because they belong to the common man? Appreciate them simply because of the pleasure of belonging to a community ... as affirmation of community? If this is true, what's sad about it?
There's also another factor involved, if you haven't been at that particular session the whole time.
You may want to tear into The Kesh, but the problem is, you just got here and we've played that #@(*$&# thing 47 times already today, I kid you not. If I have to play it one more time, someone's getting hurt.
If you come in late where I play, and you want to start a tune, where you'll get relentlessly murdered if you play a tune that's been already played ... your best bet would be The Kesh Jig.
On the multiple tune titles, I think I might try to make up and play a set that consists of a single tune under about half a dozen names. key it to be as deadpan about it as possible:
"ok, The Woman I Never Forgot, followed by Laffery's, the Glens of Aherlow, Reddican's, Gan Ainm and the Cran's Leg: the first ones in E minor"
Remember to "Hup!" after every second or third time through.
I'm a beginner to the session world, and so I am not jaded to the common tunes. Personally I like the flow of a session: a couple of sets of less common tunes played by the minority of the group that know it, then the occasional set of everyone ripping into Wind That Shakes the Barley. I agree with with Kiparsky's first post about it being more about a boring player than a boring tune. Luckily I don't seem to notice that problem with the group I play with, they seem to like to play them all.
Mr. AQ, you may be onto something there. The Kesh makes my father choke on his whistle and drop out of his bar stool, so there could be some sort of connection there. I think this is a fine area of study for some enterprising U of F student.
By some fluke of the laws of nature, your iguanas could even be the victims of cruddy whistle-playing from as far away as California. Be thankful only your iguanas are taking the hits.
Jimmy - I always try to end a set with something I'm pretty sure everyone knows. It's fun to get everyone in, and once you get someone playing, it's nice to keep them playing.
So I always put the oddball tunes up at the front of the set, and the warhorses at the end.
This also has the advantage of getting the snobs suckered into a set, and then, wham, there's the Kesh. Then they have to decide - preserve the snobbery and drop out? Or play on, and risk enjoying a "boring" tune?
Jon, that's a great idea and I do that too, though not for such a funny reason! I usually start obscure and work towards common in long sets, knowing the whole session will be roaring at the end of it with a real bog standard one.
Could lizards in Florida somehow be the veritable mine canaries of Diddley? First, we must eliminate each variable, one by one. What remains, no matter how preposterous, must be the truth.
Substitute the Latin for whistler, or rather, 'bad whistler.' But this would be a bit too nasty. One needs must look in one's heart, and reflect on the quality(?) of one's own music -- while continuing whistle confiscation. That should not stop. Never.
Going back to Ilig's observation re The Fields of Athenry - I was just observing that he was drawing an interesting parallel between tune players and the 'great unwashed'. The above 'dirge' is the ordinary Irish man or womans equivalent of The Kesh for ITM players.
What's sad but true is that your average Irish resident these days could tell exactly what's going on in Man United or who's s****ing who in Desperate Housewives etc etc. but if you asked them anything about Irish trad music, they'd probably launch into Mary & Michael and the lowlying fields :( It's the lowest common denominator.
Disclaimer, no Iguanas were harmed in the writing of this thread
But those that fell dead
Of natural causes by gagging and croaking
Were robbed of thier hides
Then made into Bodhrans
No I'm not joking
Going back to the top:
> Tons of times at sessions the 'seasoned' type of
> sessioneer will shun and puff and huff at a common
> tune being played.
These people are just sad - I think that point has been clearly made above.
> A fiddle teacher I know would do anything to avoid
> teaching tunes requested by the class such as the
> mason's apron and the bucks of oranmore
This is a very different kettle of fish (is the Kettle of Fish in the tunes database btw?) from the Kesh. Both of them, the Bucks in particular (as Llig says), takes a lot of flair and skill to give them the life they deserve. Which does not mean that we fluters want to become Molloy clones, or even Molloy wannabees, but even so the Bucks is not a tune I'd suggest to any beginner.
Good point Ling, I recall attempting to learn certain tunes that were way out of my reach years ago as an ITM infant. I'd set them aside and try again later. Years later maybe. I still haven't got Bucks to where I feel good about it and I've been working on it for years. Someday I'll play it in public though. When I'd finally get one or two of the easier common tunes that I felt brave enough to start at a session, I'd sit there scared to death until someone who was kind enough would say "hey, what ya got". They would be encouraging. It made learning how to play in sessions enjoyable. If your a beginner trying to play in a session where people have a p*ssy attitude, your better off finding a friendly session elsewhere. The p*ssants won't change and unfortunately they do kinda live in colony's.
I had an idea. Whenever anyone gets, as you say, p*ssy about playing common tunes, instantly apply the penalty: launch into any one of Harvest Home, the Kesh, the Irish Washerwoman or the Rakes of Mallow. You could even give them the choice of which of these three.
I like to play tunes with my friends.
And I learn tunes slowly.
So I concentrate on the tunes I hear the most often.
If these are the bog standards, I guess I am bogged down.
And myself, I have yet to meet a tune I didn't like.
I've spent time living in isolated areas, so I've had to travel a ways to get to sessions. Being a piper it's ok to the point that pipes are really a fun solo endeavor. But if I had just driven 3 hours to get to a session and it turned out unfriendly, then it's a huge bummer. I learned early on to seek out the more easy going folks. There's one that is 7 hrs. away and I gladly drive it once a year when I can because the folks are so great. We play harvest home with great joy.
It is funny Jon K mentioned the Kesh jig. For years I was getting bored when this was played in sessions, but then one day I was on the lookout for a good tune to reach my kids, and I picked the Kesh.
For the next half year or so I played it daily with my kids, and I started getting interested in exploring the tune, and adding small changes here and there, and it has been a very exciting and interesting.
Now I even enjoy playing the basic plain verision. It really has to do with your attitude towards the music, and I am sure most of the true masters giving workshops have come long way on the road to appreciating even the "common" tunes. What the students want and perceive as bang for the bucks attending a workshop is a different story.....
I have a theory that musical insecurity plays a role here. A lot of average to good players in my experience are reluctant to play tunes like the Kesh because they are worried how they will appear in the eyes of their fellow players. It's the "I need to play something interesting to show I am an interesting musician and well beyond the Kesh Jig" mentality. At the same time you don't want to play anything *too* obscure because you don't want to be that a*rsehole who goes into a strange session and plays a bunch of tunes no one knows. I know I've been guilty of this one, depending on the company.
Players I have met who are really secure in their music (haha....not me) and their place in the ITM community don't seem to be as afflicted. I remember years ago playing in a session at a festival in the States and the folks more or less leading the session were all good players, but still in that kind of brittle stage of things. They churned out obscure Gm and Dm tunes, Paddy Fahy tunes, Reavy tunes, tunes from the depths of East Galway, for a good few hours. I have no doubt that those guys enjoyed those tunes, but there was also a sense that no one should dare play anything remotely common. Myself and a few other inexperienced people were sitting at the edge of the session listening but totally disengaged from the musical conversation. Then a very well known fiddler, one of the teachers at the festival, joined the session. The session leaders yielded to him and he proceeded to launch into, wait for it, tunes like the Rambling Pitchfork, the Connaughtman's Rambles, etc. etc.
The point.... if that guy isn't afraid of common tunes, you shouldn't be, either (which doesn't mean I'm gonna walk into a strange session and start the Silver Spear... way too insecure for that )
On a few occasions over the years I had the chance to join in a session where I didn't know anybody. On been asked to do a solo I made a very slow painful attempt at Egan's Polka and then launched into a lively rendition of Carolan's Concerto. Loved the expressions.
I am completely, totally just beginning to play Irish music. How do I find out what the common tunes are to prep before I show up at a session? (Obviously, the Kesh is one....)
I agree with the Reverend - it's not the tunes themselves that I sometimes get fed up with, it's the slow, poor playing of the same ten or twenty tunes in every beginner-friendly session on earth. I like them fine when they're played well though. Even when they're played slowly, as long as it's steady I enjoy the chance to work out variations or try some other instrument I'm a beginner on myself.
David Markowitz, go to your local session and ask them. Could be they never, ever play the Kesh and hate it like the plague.
There's a book called 100 essential Irish session tunes put out by Mel Bay. The settings however may not match what is actually being played. You will find this to be true with most written versions. Whats common in some areas may not be common in others. Go listen to whats being played to straighten out discrepencies and as Kerri says, see what they play. In no particular set order, here's some that I've heard and play alot.
Silver Spear, Maid Behind the bar, Pigeon on the gate, Cooley's , Harvest Home, Boys of Blue Hill, Off to California, Hag with the Money, Lark in the Morning, Joy of my life, Fermoy Lassies, The Butterfly, Woman of the House, Wind that shakes the Barley, The wise maid, The Temperence reel, and so on. It's up to you to do your research. Good luck
The problem with things like the published Boston list is that it may be great for it's original purpose, but that purpose is *local*. The next session, down the road or across the world, if you find the "100 common tunes", they will only overlap by about 50. And only 30 of those with the third session, only a dozen or so with the fourth... (Believe me, I went obsessively through this using spreadsheets etc. about three years ago when I moved around the world.) So you need to know a ludicrous number if you want to know most of the common tunes at any random session - and that would mean spending many sad years learning them, just for the sake of it.
I'm convinced that the search for a standard bunch of tunes is almost hopeless. If you find it, you only have the ones that some people groan at. You need better reasons to add tunes to what you are learning. You might just really like a tune, even if others don't. Or it might be popular with *your* friends in *your* area. It's far more use to know a few tunes you love and can play well than to know a large number of tunes that are or were supposedly popular somewhere or other. People will enjoy hearing them more than they will enjoy an endless stream of 500 thrashes that are supposedly both "standards" and "not hackneyed" at the same time..
Ling is really hitting a homerun with that last post. That's why we each need to do our own research to find out what the freak ITM is and how the whole blob wraps around this spaceship we ride. Sheesh, I don't know if I made any sense there. Oh....well...... yeah....... what Ling said.
And the other thing is that, say you do manage to get a list of the 100 common tunes played at your local session and set about learning them. By the time you've got through the list and gone back to that session, their 100 common ones will have moved on.
Lots of wisdom in response to my question! I'll just go to my first session this Monday at the Landmark in NYC...I'll be the guy keeping his mouth shut.
"I'm with Kiparsky. It says more about the players than it does about the tune. The more advanced sessions where the people are nice, don't turn up their noses at tunes. They try to make it fun for everyone." --Boatpiper
Hm.
"Fun for everyone" doesn't necessarily mean "only playing tunes that everybody knows". Speaking for myself, I love hearing someone play the occasional tune that I like, but don't yet know (or an interestingly different version of a tune I know).
I don't really have any problem with most bog-standard tunes, but I still prefer to avoid them if I can, if only because there are so many other nice tunes that you might not get a chance to hear otherwise. Sure, the common tunes are nice, but then so are so many other tunes that are also nice. Here in Boston, you can hear Cooley's, or the Kesh jig anywhere, on nearly any day of the week. Why not use them as a fall-backs for when you run out of less-common tunes that you can collectively play?
The "100 Common Tunes" thing is obviously more of a guideline than a rule. They are 100 tunes that are, frankly, pretty commonly known. If you learn them, the odds are better than average that any decent musician you might meet will know some/most of them too (though they may choose to avoid them for the reasons above). As much as people might hate to hear it, being a functional Irish musician means that you need to have a repertoire well into the few-to-several hundreds of tunes. There really isn't a real shortcut, but lists like the Boston Slow-Session list, or the "100 Common..." book are the closest thing to a shortcut you're likely to find.
Yeah man, I love the oddball obscure tunes too. There's plenty O piping tunes in that category. But, this is more about the nose turner uppers making it no fun. The one's who huff and puff and make a weaker player feel unwelcome. That's probably the same person who goes home and kicks his dog for peeing in the house because poor pooch was so scared about getting kicked so many times. Why would anyone want to be remembered as a snob who considers the Kesh a substandard tune anyway?
where is the love for the common tunes?
where is the love for the common tunes?
Here's the deal. Tons of times at sessions the 'seasoned' type of sessioneer will shun and puff and huff at a common tune being played. A fiddle teacher I know would do anything to avoid teaching tunes requested by the class such as the mason's apron and the bucks of oranmore. (they bore the teacher i think).
Right. Happens a lot I am sure.
But then I chanced upon Matt Molloy and Lunny doing the Bucks on Youtube and I was utterly staggered by this 'common ' tune. It reminded me of why I started to enjoy and play this music.
So here goes.......I love the Bucks of Oranmore, The gravel walks, the harvest home, out on the ocean, the kesh ........ and all the other bloody great tunes that some people just wont play! Viva la Oranmore!
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by richrua
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
They're not common cuz they're bad. They're common cuz they're GREAT!
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Fishmonger
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
it's just pure hypocrisy I guess - we're all non-conformists, except when we're insisting that tradition be respected
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by airport
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
For the longest time I didn't want to hear the Kesh ever again. I'd heard it so many times, and most of them were nothing I wanted to hear again. It seemed that it was a tune that had been played well once, and then had become everyone's first tune, which meant that it was the default jig for a lot of people. It turned up in songs, played by people who knew one jig, and that was it. It was the tune that the beginner would scrape out when pressed for a tune at the session. It was played badly every way you can imagine. I came to hate the tune.
Then one time I decided to take it seriously, and play it as if it were a tune I liked. And I listened to it.
And now I don't mind it at all. I don't even mind if the beginner scrapes it out at the session. I can always find something in it to play.
Maybe I'll get sick of it again, but right now I think getting sick of a tune is more a sign of a boring player than a boring tune.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
We should never lose track of why we play traditional music.Trad has given me lots of enjoyment over the years and I have never been bored by 'common tunes'. Such tunes have an intrinsic richness and beauty, without which, sessions would be uninviting and lacking in depth.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by jdalt
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Some people react that way because they are poseurs. Other
times it could be that the tune has been over-played at that
session; the visitor doesn't realise that regulars need a break
from it.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Hup
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Another factor is some misguided idea of "progressing" beyond the common tunes. The music ain't about progress.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by timmy!
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I think part of the problem lies within the fact that the 'common tunes' are often the first ones that beginners learn, so when they're pulled out at a session, they're often played slowly and poorly. Everybody's got to start somewhere, and most sessions that I have played in will gladly play those tunes with a beginner to help encourage them.
)
And there's also the novelty idea. The old saying goes that your favorite tune is the last one you learned, because you're still discovering the subtleties and exploring the curves. (We're still talking about tunes here... I think...
I think people should take some time to breathe some life back into the standards every now and then, and re-discover how great they can be. (I remember my first teacher falling in love with playing the Irish Washerwoman after hearing an old-timer play it beautifully. She played that tune numerous times at sessions over the course of a couple of months, and people were consistently surprised, but also enjoyed playing it...) Avoid overdoing it, though. A steady diet of standards would drive me batty pretty quickly. Variety is the spice of life, after all...
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Reverend
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I wonder, are there "standards" that people *don't* get tired of? I've heard Woman of the House at nearly every session I've ever been to, but never seen anyone wince or roll their eyes at it. Cracking tune. The same seems to hold true for Garrett Barry's (the jig at least), Morning Dew, and Toss the Feathers (both the Edor and Dor tunes)--all bog standards from what I can hear, but no one seems to despise them. Maybe a show of hands here will prove me wrong....
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
You can break out the Wise Maid pretty much anywhere without *ahem* tossing anyone's feathers.
When I lived in Berkeley, someone would invariably play Christmas Eve at every session. I never minded -- it's one of my favorite tunes, and seems to resonate pretty well with other players, too.
You can also get away with The Merry Blacksmith and Bird in the Bush. They're nice tunes, and show up in so many different sets that their inclusion tends to be pretty easily forgiven.
The Jig of Slurs/Athol Highlanders is at a sweet spot -- common, but not overplayed -- that it's usually quite welcomed.
Now, here's a question. Aside from the OP's list, are there any other tunes that are decidedly NOT welcome at your session because of their being overplayed?
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by TheChrispy
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
It's more likely that your teacher is refusing to teach The Bucks because it's not a beginner's tune. There are plenty of tunes that people new to the music can readily make half decent. But unless you've been at this a while, you'll lack the freedom to make The Bucks anything more than a repetitive dirge.
The Bucks is indeed one of the great giants of the tunes we have. An absolute out and out belter. But it's much much more than the sum of its notes. There is such a gulf between playing it well and merely playing its notes. I'm not saying it's a hard tune, or even that it's hard to play well ... it's just that the "play well" bit can only come from experience of the music. It cannot be taught. You can say this of all diddley tunes of course, but it seems more pronounced with a tune like this.
So lay off this tune until you can play a bit better - otherwise you'll ruin it for yourself later.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by llig leahcim
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I'm with Kiparsky. It says more about the players than it does about the tune. The more advanced sessions where the people are nice, don't turn up their noses at tunes. They try to make it fun for everyone.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Tunes are not like jokes, to be groaned at if you've heard them: they are like songs, that lift the spirit when everyone joins in. if you are not enjoying it, you are doing something wrong. Don't blame the music.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by gam
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Tunes are not like jokes, to be groaned at if you've heard them.
Songs are like jokes. When ever I hear that young girl calling, I wish they'd take leachim away.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by llig leahcim
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
OK, so what's this tune?: rumpty-tumpty, rumpty-tumpty, rumpty-tumpty tum tum tum tum, tum tum tumpetty tumpetty tum tum tum tum - time for a pint or a smoke...
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by RichardB
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Ha! You've taken a tilt there at the great majority of God fearing citizens of the Republic of Ireland! Go on any school trip, pub sing song, soccer game, GAA, rugby etc. and you'll hear the afore mentioned sung with great gusto. These days, IT is the ordinary mans standard - the common mans version of a novice tune player stuttering over the Kesh. I'd even say for the average Irish person, these days, The Fields would define Irish music for them. Sad but true. It maybe the lowest common denominator but that's the way of it and and we might as well appreciate it for what it is and join in!!
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by the wounded hussar
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Interesting. Are you saying that we should love and enjoy The Fields and The Kesh because they belong to the common man? Appreciate them simply because of the pleasure of belonging to a community ... as affirmation of community? If this is true, what's sad about it?
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by llig leahcim
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
common tunes or not all tunes are there to be played and enjoyed
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by trad man
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Anyone for 'The Connaughtman's Rambles'?
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by amhrán
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Love it. We play Donnybrook Fair in front of it, that OK with you? Yeah? Tear into it!
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
There's also another factor involved, if you haven't been at that particular session the whole time.
You may want to tear into The Kesh, but the problem is, you just got here and we've played that #@(*$&# thing 47 times already today, I kid you not. If I have to play it one more time, someone's getting hurt.
OK, that's all, carry on!
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Yes SWFL Fiddler. I could play those two for ever and never get tired of them.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by amhrán
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
If you come in late where I play, and you want to start a tune, where you'll get relentlessly murdered if you play a tune that's been already played ... your best bet would be The Kesh Jig.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by llig leahcim
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Who the hell groans when they hear the Bucks of Oranmore and what is wrong with them? It's a feckin' brilliant tune.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
amhrán > useless multiple tune title time: A little old man from Clifden once told me that he knew Donnybrook Fair as The Mountainy Boy.
Llig > "OK, I just got here, what haven't you played yet?"
You ever get that question, as if you've got some spreadsheet going? ("Certainly, one moment please whilst I consult my notes...")
"Ah heck, I dunno, doesn't matter."
"How about The Kesh?"
"...except for that."
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
On the multiple tune titles, I think I might try to make up and play a set that consists of a single tune under about half a dozen names. key it to be as deadpan about it as possible:
"ok, The Woman I Never Forgot, followed by Laffery's, the Glens of Aherlow, Reddican's, Gan Ainm and the Cran's Leg: the first ones in E minor"
Remember to "Hup!" after every second or third time through.
]
- Chris
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I'm a beginner to the session world, and so I am not jaded to the common tunes. Personally I like the flow of a session: a couple of sets of less common tunes played by the minority of the group that know it, then the occasional set of everyone ripping into Wind That Shakes the Barley. I agree with with Kiparsky's first post about it being more about a boring player than a boring tune. Luckily I don't seem to notice that problem with the group I play with, they seem to like to play them all.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
SWFL, has anyone there investigated the possibility that the iguanas might be dropping out of the trees from too much Kesh exposure?
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Mr. AQ, you may be onto something there. The Kesh makes my father choke on his whistle and drop out of his bar stool, so there could be some sort of connection there. I think this is a fine area of study for some enterprising U of F student.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
By some fluke of the laws of nature, your iguanas could even be the victims of cruddy whistle-playing from as far away as California. Be thankful only your iguanas are taking the hits.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Personally, this listener is fond of most of the old tunes, The Kesh included. Sloppy musicianship is what does the harm, not the tunes.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Have you tried teaching the iguanas to play an instrument so they can participate instead of just listening?
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by fauxcelt
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Jimmy - I always try to end a set with something I'm pretty sure everyone knows. It's fun to get everyone in, and once you get someone playing, it's nice to keep them playing.
So I always put the oddball tunes up at the front of the set, and the warhorses at the end.
This also has the advantage of getting the snobs suckered into a set, and then, wham, there's the Kesh. Then they have to decide - preserve the snobbery and drop out? Or play on, and risk enjoying a "boring" tune?
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Gentlemen, knowing my luck these iguanas saw "Celtic Women" for the first time on PBS yesterday and have just bought their first bodhran.
Or really tiny spoons. [shudder]
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Jon, that's a great idea and I do that too, though not for such a funny reason! I usually start obscure and work towards common in long sets, knowing the whole session will be roaring at the end of it with a real bog standard one.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Could lizards in Florida somehow be the veritable mine canaries of Diddley? First, we must eliminate each variable, one by one. What remains, no matter how preposterous, must be the truth.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Jon, that's sneaky. I dub thee Kiparsky the Kesh Guerilla.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I shall begin......by...... confiscating whistles. Please report any change in the lizard-fall. This is for science!
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Quigley's Razor? Lacerta non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem? Lizards must not be multiplied beyond necessity?
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Substitute the Latin for whistler, or rather, 'bad whistler.' But this would be a bit too nasty. One needs must look in one's heart, and reflect on the quality(?) of one's own music -- while continuing whistle confiscation. That should not stop. Never.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Going back to Ilig's observation re The Fields of Athenry - I was just observing that he was drawing an interesting parallel between tune players and the 'great unwashed'. The above 'dirge' is the ordinary Irish man or womans equivalent of The Kesh for ITM players.
What's sad but true is that your average Irish resident these days could tell exactly what's going on in Man United or who's s****ing who in Desperate Housewives etc etc. but if you asked them anything about Irish trad music, they'd probably launch into Mary & Michael and the lowlying fields :( It's the lowest common denominator.
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by the wounded hussar
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Disclaimer, no Iguanas were harmed in the writing of this thread
But those that fell dead
Of natural causes by gagging and croaking
Were robbed of thier hides
Then made into Bodhrans
No I'm not joking
# Posted on January 13th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Going back to the top:
> Tons of times at sessions the 'seasoned' type of
> sessioneer will shun and puff and huff at a common
> tune being played.
These people are just sad - I think that point has been clearly made above.
> A fiddle teacher I know would do anything to avoid
> teaching tunes requested by the class such as the
> mason's apron and the bucks of oranmore
This is a very different kettle of fish (is the Kettle of Fish in the tunes database btw?) from the Kesh. Both of them, the Bucks in particular (as Llig says), takes a lot of flair and skill to give them the life they deserve. Which does not mean that we fluters want to become Molloy clones, or even Molloy wannabees, but even so the Bucks is not a tune I'd suggest to any beginner.
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by Linsey Doyle
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Good point Ling, I recall attempting to learn certain tunes that were way out of my reach years ago as an ITM infant. I'd set them aside and try again later. Years later maybe. I still haven't got Bucks to where I feel good about it and I've been working on it for years. Someday I'll play it in public though. When I'd finally get one or two of the easier common tunes that I felt brave enough to start at a session, I'd sit there scared to death until someone who was kind enough would say "hey, what ya got". They would be encouraging. It made learning how to play in sessions enjoyable. If your a beginner trying to play in a session where people have a p*ssy attitude, your better off finding a friendly session elsewhere. The p*ssants won't change and unfortunately they do kinda live in colony's.
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I had an idea. Whenever anyone gets, as you say, p*ssy about playing common tunes, instantly apply the penalty: launch into any one of Harvest Home, the Kesh, the Irish Washerwoman or the Rakes of Mallow. You could even give them the choice of which of these three.
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by Linsey Doyle
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I like to play tunes with my friends.
And I learn tunes slowly.
So I concentrate on the tunes I hear the most often.
If these are the bog standards, I guess I am bogged down.
And myself, I have yet to meet a tune I didn't like.
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I've spent time living in isolated areas, so I've had to travel a ways to get to sessions. Being a piper it's ok to the point that pipes are really a fun solo endeavor. But if I had just driven 3 hours to get to a session and it turned out unfriendly, then it's a huge bummer. I learned early on to seek out the more easy going folks. There's one that is 7 hrs. away and I gladly drive it once a year when I can because the folks are so great. We play harvest home with great joy.
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
It is funny Jon K mentioned the Kesh jig. For years I was getting bored when this was played in sessions, but then one day I was on the lookout for a good tune to reach my kids, and I picked the Kesh.
For the next half year or so I played it daily with my kids, and I started getting interested in exploring the tune, and adding small changes here and there, and it has been a very exciting and interesting.
Now I even enjoy playing the basic plain verision. It really has to do with your attitude towards the music, and I am sure most of the true masters giving workshops have come long way on the road to appreciating even the "common" tunes. What the students want and perceive as bang for the bucks attending a workshop is a different story.....
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by FiddleTramp
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I have a theory that musical insecurity plays a role here. A lot of average to good players in my experience are reluctant to play tunes like the Kesh because they are worried how they will appear in the eyes of their fellow players. It's the "I need to play something interesting to show I am an interesting musician and well beyond the Kesh Jig" mentality. At the same time you don't want to play anything *too* obscure because you don't want to be that a*rsehole who goes into a strange session and plays a bunch of tunes no one knows. I know I've been guilty of this one, depending on the company.
)
Players I have met who are really secure in their music (haha....not me) and their place in the ITM community don't seem to be as afflicted. I remember years ago playing in a session at a festival in the States and the folks more or less leading the session were all good players, but still in that kind of brittle stage of things. They churned out obscure Gm and Dm tunes, Paddy Fahy tunes, Reavy tunes, tunes from the depths of East Galway, for a good few hours. I have no doubt that those guys enjoyed those tunes, but there was also a sense that no one should dare play anything remotely common. Myself and a few other inexperienced people were sitting at the edge of the session listening but totally disengaged from the musical conversation. Then a very well known fiddler, one of the teachers at the festival, joined the session. The session leaders yielded to him and he proceeded to launch into, wait for it, tunes like the Rambling Pitchfork, the Connaughtman's Rambles, etc. etc.
The point.... if that guy isn't afraid of common tunes, you shouldn't be, either (which doesn't mean I'm gonna walk into a strange session and start the Silver Spear... way too insecure for that
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
On a few occasions over the years I had the chance to join in a session where I didn't know anybody. On been asked to do a solo I made a very slow painful attempt at Egan's Polka and then launched into a lively rendition of Carolan's Concerto. Loved the expressions.
# Posted on January 14th 2010 by Free Reed
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I am completely, totally just beginning to play Irish music. How do I find out what the common tunes are to prep before I show up at a session? (Obviously, the Kesh is one....)
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by David Markowitz
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
I agree with the Reverend - it's not the tunes themselves that I sometimes get fed up with, it's the slow, poor playing of the same ten or twenty tunes in every beginner-friendly session on earth. I like them fine when they're played well though. Even when they're played slowly, as long as it's steady I enjoy the chance to work out variations or try some other instrument I'm a beginner on myself.
David Markowitz, go to your local session and ask them. Could be they never, ever play the Kesh and hate it like the plague.
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by Kerri Brown
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
There's a book called 100 essential Irish session tunes put out by Mel Bay. The settings however may not match what is actually being played. You will find this to be true with most written versions. Whats common in some areas may not be common in others. Go listen to whats being played to straighten out discrepencies and as Kerri says, see what they play. In no particular set order, here's some that I've heard and play alot.
Silver Spear, Maid Behind the bar, Pigeon on the gate, Cooley's , Harvest Home, Boys of Blue Hill, Off to California, Hag with the Money, Lark in the Morning, Joy of my life, Fermoy Lassies, The Butterfly, Woman of the House, Wind that shakes the Barley, The wise maid, The Temperence reel, and so on. It's up to you to do your research. Good luck
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
The Boston slow session has a playlist that they publish online. It's got a lot of the classics, and is worth a look: http://www.slowplayers.org/BOSS/BOSS_Playlist.html
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by TheChrispy
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
(Okay, I suppose in ITM they're ALL classics, but you get the idea.)
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by TheChrispy
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
The problem with things like the published Boston list is that it may be great for it's original purpose, but that purpose is *local*. The next session, down the road or across the world, if you find the "100 common tunes", they will only overlap by about 50. And only 30 of those with the third session, only a dozen or so with the fourth... (Believe me, I went obsessively through this using spreadsheets etc. about three years ago when I moved around the world.) So you need to know a ludicrous number if you want to know most of the common tunes at any random session - and that would mean spending many sad years learning them, just for the sake of it.
I'm convinced that the search for a standard bunch of tunes is almost hopeless. If you find it, you only have the ones that some people groan at. You need better reasons to add tunes to what you are learning. You might just really like a tune, even if others don't. Or it might be popular with *your* friends in *your* area. It's far more use to know a few tunes you love and can play well than to know a large number of tunes that are or were supposedly popular somewhere or other. People will enjoy hearing them more than they will enjoy an endless stream of 500 thrashes that are supposedly both "standards" and "not hackneyed" at the same time..
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by Linsey Doyle
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Ling is really hitting a homerun with that last post. That's why we each need to do our own research to find out what the freak ITM is and how the whole blob wraps around this spaceship we ride. Sheesh, I don't know if I made any sense there. Oh....well...... yeah....... what Ling said.
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
And the other thing is that, say you do manage to get a list of the 100 common tunes played at your local session and set about learning them. By the time you've got through the list and gone back to that session, their 100 common ones will have moved on.
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by llig leahcim
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Lots of wisdom in response to my question! I'll just go to my first session this Monday at the Landmark in NYC...I'll be the guy keeping his mouth shut.
Except when playing, of course.
# Posted on January 15th 2010 by David Markowitz
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
"I'm with Kiparsky. It says more about the players than it does about the tune. The more advanced sessions where the people are nice, don't turn up their noses at tunes. They try to make it fun for everyone." --Boatpiper
Hm.
"Fun for everyone" doesn't necessarily mean "only playing tunes that everybody knows". Speaking for myself, I love hearing someone play the occasional tune that I like, but don't yet know (or an interestingly different version of a tune I know).
I don't really have any problem with most bog-standard tunes, but I still prefer to avoid them if I can, if only because there are so many other nice tunes that you might not get a chance to hear otherwise. Sure, the common tunes are nice, but then so are so many other tunes that are also nice. Here in Boston, you can hear Cooley's, or the Kesh jig anywhere, on nearly any day of the week. Why not use them as a fall-backs for when you run out of less-common tunes that you can collectively play?
The "100 Common Tunes" thing is obviously more of a guideline than a rule. They are 100 tunes that are, frankly, pretty commonly known. If you learn them, the odds are better than average that any decent musician you might meet will know some/most of them too (though they may choose to avoid them for the reasons above). As much as people might hate to hear it, being a functional Irish musician means that you need to have a repertoire well into the few-to-several hundreds of tunes. There really isn't a real shortcut, but lists like the Boston Slow-Session list, or the "100 Common..." book are the closest thing to a shortcut you're likely to find.
# Posted on January 19th 2010 by Georgi
Re: where is the love for the common tunes?
Yeah man, I love the oddball obscure tunes too. There's plenty O piping tunes in that category. But, this is more about the nose turner uppers making it no fun. The one's who huff and puff and make a weaker player feel unwelcome. That's probably the same person who goes home and kicks his dog for peeing in the house because poor pooch was so scared about getting kicked so many times. Why would anyone want to be remembered as a snob who considers the Kesh a substandard tune anyway?
# Posted on January 20th 2010 by Gone to work