The Session >> Discussions >> big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
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big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
here is something i have been wondering about...you go to a few sessions around the country and if you are lucky to stumble across a great musician...you know one from a famous cd or band....how many of them think they are really the "rock stars" of irish music????
are they there playing music for their own self importance (usually you are lucky to get them to play in a session in the first place) or do they seriously think that the music is there for their money making ego centric journey?
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I don't think the great musicians play for either their own self-importance, or to facilitate 'their money making ego centric journey'. There's a whole lot more to it than that. Very few of the great musicians I've met in sessions are unpleasant to be around. This is usually the preserve of the mediocre.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I've met (and sometimes interviewed) many of Ireland's most well-known traditional musicians and, for the most part, the experience has proved pleasurable.
However, some years ago I and a good friend (a record producer and radio presenter) compiled what we termed 'the Irish traditional band from hell' which we've occasionally updated over the years. It consists of the biggest (fame-wise) and most unpleasant bollix on each of the main instruments. I won't pass on to you our selection, but it proved relatively easy to make since there are so few of them in each category.
Conversely, we also compiled an 'Irish traditional band from heaven' which features our shared experience of the most pleasant, charming and welcoming musicians. Thankfully, there are hundreds of those.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I couldn't resist the title. Ok... how about a little segue... what about talentless, or just say talent-impaired ego-centric nobs, who want to be rock stars? (should I start a different thread?) I find them to be far more annoying. I've only met a few "greats" they were so gracious and pleasant, introduced themselves all were genuinely interested in the session and its players, of all skill levels... I find the tweeners, are much more likely to be searching for a rock-star label, and in that insecurity are likely to come off more snobbish.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
The ones I've met have been helpful, open, friendly, do not overestimate their importance and are good to be around. I daresay the opposite exist - it's only people after all - but over-inflated egos don't seem common to me.
And of those who don't often go to sessions, my (admittedly small) experience is that this is simply because it is really is hard to do really good music at many sessions. Successful sessions, after all, are based around the "mass ensemble", which is a very limited musical form. Being unrehearsed mass ensembles doesn't exactly help either, even though it can be fun.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Hold on a second. Last Tuesday we had a good session minus the snobbery. I considered it successful. Off-hand I'd say about 8 players. Some new tunes were introduced, & though we may not have been picked them up as easily as some may like, we eventually (with several repeats) came up with some good tunes. Hope to do it again. If not next week, sometime in the near future.
I actually think our large sessions tend to sound more rehearsed, because we fall into play the most common tunes. The size varies.
When new tunes are introduced I try to encourage players to listen at least once through. Resisting the urge to jump in. & with all due respect to chord players it's good if they listen more than once through to the melody & allow the chords to happen later ~ oops, guess now I'm getting a big head. Now, back to the original topic.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
great to hear the responses! i agree that most sessions apart from a few can attain that level of enjoyment that is devoid of snobbery. I put in case one session where the tunes were absolutely fantastic, the company was great and was looking at becoming a great nights craic...along came a certain fiddle player who not only thought he was pretty good, but all the other spectators thought was really good because he proceeded to climb on top of a chair and annouce that "i will now play...." egocentric nob or just w$@nker??
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I was playing with a bass player the other night. He is sort of a beginner so I wrote out the chords for some tunes above notation I had written out for somebody else I have to play with (who never learns a tune unless you spell it out for her).) and he kept coming in right away and changing the rhythm of the tune. and I would resistantly follow him for a while and we'd both lose the groove. There is something in his habits as a bluegrass player that is making it very difficult for me to teach him Irish Traditional rhythms....where was I going, oh I agree with Random Notes, you should listen once through you actually don't know know what you're trying to play.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
It's important to remember that many musicians are pretty eccentric characters with odd ways - myself included. I've crossed paths with many over the years - some famous, some not. There have been a lot of folk who on first meeting come across as total snobs - it turns out, on further investigation to stem from shyness or just plain eccentric.
Artists see the world in a different way to most people - it's an old cliche but it's true. This can sometimes make them come across as egocentric or snobbish.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I think many of the professional traditional players in Ireland would find it hard to join in an ordinary session. Everyone hones in on them and their playing rather than just enjoy the music. They soon become the centre of attention, something they don't want.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Amhran, that makes sense and that explains why when they do come to sessions they are pleasant about it, they of all people know what they are getting themselves into and if aren't in the mood probably avoid the session all together. (I'm just a wee learner, and if I don't have energy or interest or the mood for a session I stay home)... It's great opting in, or opting out, I think that's what makes sessioning better than playing with a band for me. No obligations....just a common goal. Why buy the whole cow... or pig.... or
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I take amhrán's comment on board, but with the proviso that it very much depends upon the environment.
There are plenty of well-known names who still have a 'home pub' where they feel perfectly comfortable. Matt Molloy would be the most obvious example, but I'd think also of Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh in Hudái Beag's, the various Glackins and McKeons who play in The Stag's Head in Dublin, Néillidh Mulligan (and many others) in The Cobblestone, Dónal O'Connor in The York Tavern in Belfast, Ronan Browne and Peadar O'Loughlin in Gort, and many others I could mention.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I don't think there are any "rock stars" playing ITM. For starters, it's too damn hard, there's little chance of stadium gigs and monster record sales, little or no exposure on the mass-media .. etc etc for all the other non-musical incentives that attract prima-donnas.
On the other hand - if one chose to make music one's life, it makes sense to find payed gigs. That way, your music doesn't get interupted by distractions such as a day-job, one gets to practice more, plus there's nothing regular stage work for a few years to really start perfecting your art and technique. It does tend to set one apart. I wouldn't call that "big ego", although some might be tempted to attack such people from motives in their own egos.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
'As for the nobs, it's usually those with the least talent who are obnoxious.'
If only that were true, amhrán, but see my previous posting about the 'Irish traditional band from hell' which definitely includes some of the most talented musicians in the country and that selection was based on personal experience.
Conversely, I've met several musicians who have a reputation for being obnoxious (sometimes promulgated in threads on this site) which I discovered to be completely unfounded. It's an oddity, but major 'names' often suffer from shyness or lack confidence in their communication skills and this sometimes gets misinterpreted as standoffish.
My ideal musical dinner party? Andy Irvine, Ronan Browne, Kevin Crawford, Mary Coughlan, Martin Hayes, Desi Wilkinson, Karan Casey and Winifred Horan.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Dear Irishmuso,
Your initial post on this thread illustrates your feeling on the matter and you pose what to you are rhetorical questions as you have already made up your mind.
First, "famous" does not mean "great". Look at any musical genre and this is true.
Secondly loads of Famous musicians who indeed are great musicians played in sessions all the time, to become great, and still do when time allows, much like everyone else.
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Some of the best musicians whom I have had the pleasure of performing with were not famous or well-known because they had spent their musical careers working as backup musicians/sidemen to famous singer-songwriters/entertainers. They were very good at playing music, though.
big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
here is something i have been wondering about...you go to a few sessions around the country and if you are lucky to stumble across a great musician...you know one from a famous cd or band....how many of them think they are really the "rock stars" of irish music????
are they there playing music for their own self importance (usually you are lucky to get them to play in a session in the first place) or do they seriously think that the music is there for their money making ego centric journey?
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by irishmuso
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
well they're better than the egocentric nobs that cant play!!
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by mise
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
you wish the devil a care egocentrics in trad can play like this?
great talent, all empathy, no bullsh*t?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pziFUtBmLV8&feature=related
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
sure, better than the other way round eh.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I don't think the great musicians play for either their own self-importance, or to facilitate 'their money making ego centric journey'. There's a whole lot more to it than that. Very few of the great musicians I've met in sessions are unpleasant to be around. This is usually the preserve of the mediocre.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Dragut Reis
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
HC thinks it's a right wing war song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pziFUtBmLV8&feature=related
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I've met (and sometimes interviewed) many of Ireland's most well-known traditional musicians and, for the most part, the experience has proved pleasurable.
However, some years ago I and a good friend (a record producer and radio presenter) compiled what we termed 'the Irish traditional band from hell' which we've occasionally updated over the years. It consists of the biggest (fame-wise) and most unpleasant bollix on each of the main instruments. I won't pass on to you our selection, but it proved relatively easy to make since there are so few of them in each category.
Conversely, we also compiled an 'Irish traditional band from heaven' which features our shared experience of the most pleasant, charming and welcoming musicians. Thankfully, there are hundreds of those.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
depends where you stand doesn't it? Like HC.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
If you are observing without the "ME"
then none of this should be an issue.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
'Hi irishmuso,you said they are playing music for their own self importance and are egocentric could you name a few.'
Don't be silly, Dodger! Have a look at the Defamation Act 2009.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Was that a pro-humous Freddy Mercury tribute?
If they were called the Aztecs, why weren't they ripping hearts out and stuff? Would have lightened up the guitar solos and things.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by nicholas
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Maybe it was before Alice Cooper.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by nicholas
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I couldn't resist the title. Ok... how about a little segue... what about talentless, or just say talent-impaired ego-centric nobs, who want to be rock stars? (should I start a different thread?) I find them to be far more annoying. I've only met a few "greats" they were so gracious and pleasant, introduced themselves all were genuinely interested in the session and its players, of all skill levels... I find the tweeners, are much more likely to be searching for a rock-star label, and in that insecurity are likely to come off more snobbish.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
The ones I've met have been helpful, open, friendly, do not overestimate their importance and are good to be around. I daresay the opposite exist - it's only people after all - but over-inflated egos don't seem common to me.
And of those who don't often go to sessions, my (admittedly small) experience is that this is simply because it is really is hard to do really good music at many sessions. Successful sessions, after all, are based around the "mass ensemble", which is a very limited musical form. Being unrehearsed mass ensembles doesn't exactly help either, even though it can be fun.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Linsey Doyle
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Hold on a second. Last Tuesday we had a good session minus the snobbery. I considered it successful. Off-hand I'd say about 8 players. Some new tunes were introduced, & though we may not have been picked them up as easily as some may like, we eventually (with several repeats) came up with some good tunes. Hope to do it again. If not next week, sometime in the near future.
I actually think our large sessions tend to sound more rehearsed, because we fall into play the most common tunes. The size varies.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
When new tunes are introduced I try to encourage players to listen at least once through. Resisting the urge to jump in. & with all due respect to chord players it's good if they listen more than once through to the melody & allow the chords to happen later ~ oops, guess now I'm getting a big head. Now, back to the original topic.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
great to hear the responses! i agree that most sessions apart from a few can attain that level of enjoyment that is devoid of snobbery. I put in case one session where the tunes were absolutely fantastic, the company was great and was looking at becoming a great nights craic...along came a certain fiddle player who not only thought he was pretty good, but all the other spectators thought was really good because he proceeded to climb on top of a chair and annouce that "i will now play...." egocentric nob or just w$@nker??
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by irishmuso
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I was playing with a bass player the other night. He is sort of a beginner so I wrote out the chords for some tunes above notation I had written out for somebody else I have to play with (who never learns a tune unless you spell it out for her).) and he kept coming in right away and changing the rhythm of the tune. and I would resistantly follow him for a while and we'd both lose the groove. There is something in his habits as a bluegrass player that is making it very difficult for me to teach him Irish Traditional rhythms....where was I going, oh I agree with Random Notes, you should listen once through you actually don't know know what you're trying to play.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
It's important to remember that many musicians are pretty eccentric characters with odd ways - myself included. I've crossed paths with many over the years - some famous, some not. There have been a lot of folk who on first meeting come across as total snobs - it turns out, on further investigation to stem from shyness or just plain eccentric.
Artists see the world in a different way to most people - it's an old cliche but it's true. This can sometimes make them come across as egocentric or snobbish.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
That should read: "....just plain eccentricity."
Hey, Boss, any chance of a post-editing feature 'round here????
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
There was a post editing feature recently.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I think many of the professional traditional players in Ireland would find it hard to join in an ordinary session. Everyone hones in on them and their playing rather than just enjoy the music. They soon become the centre of attention, something they don't want.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by amhrán
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Amhran, that makes sense and that explains why when they do come to sessions they are pleasant about it, they of all people know what they are getting themselves into and if aren't in the mood probably avoid the session all together. (I'm just a wee learner, and if I don't have energy or interest or the mood for a session I stay home)... It's great opting in, or opting out, I think that's what makes sessioning better than playing with a band for me. No obligations....just a common goal. Why buy the whole cow... or pig.... or
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I take amhrán's comment on board, but with the proviso that it very much depends upon the environment.
There are plenty of well-known names who still have a 'home pub' where they feel perfectly comfortable. Matt Molloy would be the most obvious example, but I'd think also of Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh in Hudái Beag's, the various Glackins and McKeons who play in The Stag's Head in Dublin, Néillidh Mulligan (and many others) in The Cobblestone, Dónal O'Connor in The York Tavern in Belfast, Ronan Browne and Peadar O'Loughlin in Gort, and many others I could mention.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I don't think there are any "rock stars" playing ITM. For starters, it's too damn hard, there's little chance of stadium gigs and monster record sales, little or no exposure on the mass-media .. etc etc for all the other non-musical incentives that attract prima-donnas.
On the other hand - if one chose to make music one's life, it makes sense to find payed gigs. That way, your music doesn't get interupted by distractions such as a day-job, one gets to practice more, plus there's nothing regular stage work for a few years to really start perfecting your art and technique. It does tend to set one apart. I wouldn't call that "big ego", although some might be tempted to attack such people from motives in their own egos.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by Mozle
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
I can see your point Floss.
As for the nobs, it's usually those with the least talent who are obnoxious.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by amhrán
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
People with over-sized egos and under-sized talent.
# Posted on November 30th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
'As for the nobs, it's usually those with the least talent who are obnoxious.'
If only that were true, amhrán, but see my previous posting about the 'Irish traditional band from hell' which definitely includes some of the most talented musicians in the country and that selection was based on personal experience.
Conversely, I've met several musicians who have a reputation for being obnoxious (sometimes promulgated in threads on this site) which I discovered to be completely unfounded. It's an oddity, but major 'names' often suffer from shyness or lack confidence in their communication skills and this sometimes gets misinterpreted as standoffish.
My ideal musical dinner party? Andy Irvine, Ronan Browne, Kevin Crawford, Mary Coughlan, Martin Hayes, Desi Wilkinson, Karan Casey and Winifred Horan.
# Posted on November 30th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
My ideal musical dinner party? Me, me and me.
_ a line borrowed from Harold Ramis 'Groundhog Day' (1993), a remarkable little film with more than it's fair share of mind-bends (repeated) . . .
# Posted on December 1st 2009 by lisaniska
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Dear Irishmuso,
Your initial post on this thread illustrates your feeling on the matter and you pose what to you are rhetorical questions as you have already made up your mind.
First, "famous" does not mean "great". Look at any musical genre and this is true.
Secondly loads of Famous musicians who indeed are great musicians played in sessions all the time, to become great, and still do when time allows, much like everyone else.
# Posted on December 1st 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Good one blisshead, good, great, let's get back to eating the rich!
Famous? wot, like....no, I won't, good evening, stay well.
# Posted on December 2nd 2009 by mcknowall
Re: big heads in the ITM scene, egocentric nobs or "rock stars" of irish music?
Some of the best musicians whom I have had the pleasure of performing with were not famous or well-known because they had spent their musical careers working as backup musicians/sidemen to famous singer-songwriters/entertainers. They were very good at playing music, though.
# Posted on December 5th 2009 by fauxcelt