Hi everybody.Since i'm going to start saving up for a practice set of uilleann pipes I was wondering if they are a well accepted instrument. I mean I wouldn't really like going into a session with them and all of a sudden everybody starts looking at me funny and hints at me to leave. Also I was wondering if David Daye's pipes are good as they are the set I am looking at. Thank you in advance.
Jerry
Go for it Jerry
I for one am always glad to see the pipes as long as they are in tune with everyone else . Good luck its a hard road not often traveled that brings its own reward.
Jerry, get a feel for what Piping is all about before you decide to invest "your life" which is essentially what you will do with the Uilleann Pipes more so than with most instruments. Having to ask if there alrite in a session makes me think you need more exposure to the tradition and the sounds. Also with playing the pipes it is good to know what path you want to follow and what style is most appealing to you before you start. The only way to do this is listen. I learn in Belfast, the North of Ireland is steadily becoming associated with a style of its own, a style largely but not exclusively developed from "open playing" but with a fair bit of tight "closed playing" this bit of an abitrary statement but the style emerging up here presents the tunes differently in both the setting of the tune and grace notes, use of hammering and yelps and slides. A good example of this style can be seen in the playing of John Mc Sherry. The different styles of open and closed come from different schools and traditions of piping, as a general rule "open technique" leaves the 4th and 5th fingers open whilst playing the melody. Using closed fingering only for triplets, runs, stops and some other separate ornamentation seperate from the main body of the tune, I aslo prefer to cut mostly using the back D finger as it gives the tunes a totally different structure. Some teachers, particularly in Na Piobarai Uilleann circles, WILL usually tell you Open style is wrong. People who are so quick to pass this judgment are usually arrogant mediocre pipers unable awknowlege progression or give credit where credit is due. .The only way to see the difference and decide which style you prefer is to listen to different Pipers.Pipers. for open style I would cite Paddy Keenan, Finbar Furey, Davy Spillane, John Mc Sherry, Barry kerr, for closed some brillant Pipers include Tiarnan O Duinnchinn and Robbie Hannon. There are merits in both styles and some crossover. The fundamentals of you Piping need to be in place early on for you to be a good player. So make a decision what you want. Good luck.
Ps. Never heard of the maker you mention. Getting hold of a good practice set is essential so do your research
I agree with the first part of Truck's post -- it is an instrument you have to invest your life in and become completely obsessed about. And aye, given that you asked if it is appropriate for sessions tells me that you should probably do a lot more listening to Irish music before you commit yourself to a set of pipes.
I've never had anyone, from NPU or anywhere else, say that playing open is wrong. It's inaccurate, at best, to say that piping is this bipolar thing, with a closed and open style, when any piper you ever meet who is even halfway decent is on a continuum. However, since the OP is asking if the uilleann pipes are appropriate to sessions, this is probably somewhat irrelevant anyway and he may or may not have a clue what we are on about. Probably not. It looks like you just used it as a platform to rail against NPU for no particularly good reason.
Oh, and David Daye is a fellow in the States who makes delrin pipes. The ones I have heard sounded fine enough to learn on. Or put this way: I want to acquire a Daye set or something like it so I can lug it up mountains and play at the summit, but I'd never use it as my main instrument in any other context.
"the North of Ireland is steadily becoming associated with a style of its own, a style largely but not exclusively developed from "open playing" but with a fair bit of tight "closed playing" this bit of an abitrary statement"
Did u read my post??
to say Piping in a Bi- Polar thing in this context would be "inaccurate". Which is why I didn't say it. mate.. reference the above.
Apologies if i wasnt clear enough for you. I cited development and divergence of styyes not exclusivity. The only exclusivity in terms of attitudes to piping style I have heard has come from the heart of the above mentioned organisation. Just because YOU havn't heard NPU piping teachers admonish open style doesnt mean it hasn't happend and has infact been the prevalant attitute up until very recently. To be more specific would be unfair and unwise. No suprise however that people jump to act as an apologist when they dont know the facts.
Woah, didnt expect so much. The reason why I asked if they are good for sessions was because where I live I hardly hear anything about the pipes, so I was just wondering if people didnt like the sound of if it or if it was because they are so difficult to learn. Anyways thanks for the advice on davids pipes, i'm still looking into the different makers and how it is played. I'm a flute and whistle player which is pretty simple to me but the pipes are pretty complex. I'll try and get something other than one of david's so I wouldnt have as much trouble selling it if I completely suck for the first year or so.
I'm with Bazouki Dave: get yourself a set--you won't regret it. Everywhere I've ever played they have been very well received. If they are in tune, and you know what that means if you already play the flute, you will have no trouble other than keeping them in tune. A practice set is no more complex than a flute stuck in a bag and bellows, with the advantage that you can chew gum while you are playing.
My claims that I have never heard NPU advocating one style over another as if preaching some religion are about as well supported as yours are that you have heard that. Have you ever seen the Monty Python, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch? This is like that. "Other than Willie Week, piping tuition, publishing and marketing albums of various pipers, organizing gigs, organizing tionols, trying to make practice sets or accessible, archiving old material, what has NPU ever done for us?"
In any case, you are welcome to whatever opinion you like about NPU but your comments are still random for this thread. The poor OP wanted to know what session musicians thought of uilleann pipes and what makers he should look into. Nobody who is at that stage of their journey into this mad instrument is or should be worrying too much about open v. tight styles and how many triplets they're putting into a tune.
Wishiwasirish,
If you're normal like the rest of us, you will completely suck for the first year or so. It's not an instant gratification type of instrument. You have to work your a*se off and accept that you will suck for far longer than you want to suck. The reasons you don't see lots of them is that it is a rare instrument, a b*gger to learn to play, a b*gger to maintain, and a b*gger to get a hold of, especially if you live in Irish music boonies where there aren't pipers around who can help you.
" A practice set is no more complex than a flute stuck in a bag and bellows, with the advantage that you can chew gum while you are playing."
Um, no. Some of the techniques are similar and lots aren't. You can't transpose flute or whistle technique straight to the pipes and expect to be able to play the pipes well.
Thanks for your advice silverspear. I'm really going to have to go off of what I can since there is nobody around to teach me the pipes. There might be one or two people that have some experience with the highland pipes but I dont know how much it would help me. I know i'm in for a rough one but I think I can do it.
I'm lovin the debate on open/closed styl! Personally i really do tend t go fo the more closed stye as i think it is harder to master and therefore, there is a sense of gratification out of it.
I also have to agree with the fact that tking up the pipes is defos an ordination in itself. Not only have I become obsessed with the pipes but my dad is as well, and he doesn't even play.
You will definately tend to find that you will suck so badly when you start, i feel like i still suck and i have been playing for six years. I really have so much respect for those wanting to learn. I say go for it and with this set you are thinking of getting, it doesn't matter who made them, just as long as you have someone look over them who knows what good reed is, nd wht a good set should sound like.
...you can get some decent tuition on-line. There are a couple of chaps that offer lessons via Skype; http://www.uilleannobsession.com/ is one that I've used once or twice (due to bandwidth and time issues, rather than teaching issues). Pat is very patient and, in my experience, a good teacher.
Oh, and I play (or try to) a set of Dayes. Not bad, but if you do get good at it, you'll probably eventually want to upgrade.
Where do you live? You'll need a support group to show you what can and will go wrong. Also get to a tionol or piper's workshop - you can get opinions on sets, how much should I spend, etc, Pipes are not learned in a vacuum and need some proding to get over the ugly parts. Get the Heather Clarke book and the first DVD of the NPU's how to play. Go listen to every piper you can get a CD on and go watch one LIVE. Check Pat D'Arcy site, Uilleann Obsession for gatherings and sets bought and sold.
Don't get swayed by open/close talk at this moment in your career. You'll need some determination to get air from the bellows to the bag and into a chanter with the requisite first and second octave scales. This is not an instrument for instant gratification like a keyboard or guitar. But, it is a lot of fun and you meet the best people.
'You can't transpose flute or whistle technique ...'
You misunderstand. I said that it is no more complex. More difficult, yes, and a different technique. But not complex, which is what the OP was worried about. That comes later.
TSS and Trucks: from an outsider's point of view, you seem to me to be saying the same thing, so no need to fall out about it. And, I know I'm not a piper ... but I get what you're on about with 'open' and 'closed' styles, and the continuum and so on ... I read Trucks' original post as saying just that. So you're agreeing. I think.
Ah well, not being a piper, I'm not used to the ornariness ...
Just to add a response to the OP's question: badly played pipes are absolutely hideous in a session context. And it will take years and years and years before you would play to a standard that's barely acceptable. Which is probably why you don't see them so much outside of sessions in Ireland and at festivals. But don't let that stop you. If you want to completely immerse your whole life in music at the expense of everything else ... go for it!
There's a couple of weird things going on in this thread that need highlighting for clarity:
WishiwasIrish? Flipin heck ... I don't know where he/she's from, but they ought to get that daft wish under control. Do they think that playing the pipes will make them more Irish that just playing the flute and whistle. Why not shout "Begora" and "Feck" while your at it? It's a serious question? Do they want to learn to play the pipes 'cause they love the sound of it. And I mean love. Not merely quite like. I mean head over heals just simply can't get enough of it monogamous for the rest of your life love. For only this level of adoration will get you through it. Or do they just like the image of it?
Secondly, here's another reason not to bother with the things:
"Personally i really do tend to go for the more closed stye as i think it is harder to master and therefore, there is a sense of gratification out of it."
"Gratification"? What a silly notion. Preferring one style over another because it's harder. You're perfectly welcome to prefer a more closed style if that's the sound you like, but any other reason completely misses the point of it all. It belies what a great many pipers feel, that they want to master the thing merely because it's hard. Such people are never really interested in music and they will never even grant themselves the mere pleasure of the music until at least that daft 21 years thing is up.
Great post, Michael. I agree with you completely, especially the bit about "head over heels monogamous for the rest of your life love." That's totally the case.
I'm not debating open v. closed styles (which I said earlier is a pretty useless dichotomy) but saying I don't think there's a point to slagging NPU, which has done an amazing amount of good for pipers and piping.
I probably misunderstood ... And, thinking about it, I shouldn't even have dared to venture into the pipers' lair. Way too dangerous beasts for a poor wee fl00ter.
Stick around blend. The last thing you should allow those pesky pipers to do is sit around in their own exclusive club. They have enough trouble handling the real world as it is.
i play the pipes, and tend to take a practice set out when i go to sessions, they take up less room, are quieter and a lot cheaper. every one on here is right. they take absolute dedication. they're not an instrument you can pick up and just play. on your own you might be able to knock a tune out of them, but you can be pretty sure that if you attempt to play with anyone else, you'll realise just how out of tune you are. i'd recommend getting a set and having a go. play along with some one on a box or concertina or something that holds its tune and might not be slightly out. a box is perfect. get used to playing then get your self in tune with the box player. good luck with it, and the only other advice i can give is dont go and spend a fortune. buy a cheap set, learn to play, then if you decide its not for you or you cant be bothered to put the time in then atleast you wont have lost too much money
If you buy a cheep set they'll never play in tune and you'll not only lose your money, you'll lose the will to live (which is fine, 'cause the people around you will want to kill you anyway).
If you buy an expensive set, you'll only have yourself to blame. Which is very important for pipers, who habitually blame their instruments. (plus, if you look after them, they'll always be worth what you paid for them)
I think you really want to play the pipes , Llig this is just a smoke screen for you true feelings
just scraping cat gut is no longer enough for you and you want to feel the infrasonics of that bass drone when you play.
"Since i'm going to start saving up for a practice set of uilleann pipes I was wondering if they are a well accepted instrument. " Jerry.
Yes, if you learn to tune your chanter so that it's in tune with itself and other instruments, and if you learn to play a couple of tunes, and if your chanter isn't overbearingly loud there shouldn't be any problem.
I mean I wouldn't really like going into a session with them and all of a sudden everybody starts looking at me funny and hints at me to leave.
This would only happen if your pipes are out of tune, extremely loud, or if you try and play on tunes that you don't really know. Then again other factors such as bad hygiene, bad breath, badly tailored, ill-fitting, loud, cheap clothing, t-shirts claiming "I support the BNP" could also have the same effect
Been playin highland pipes for 40 years, don't want to start something new and go thru all the pain again. Much happier just listening to good players!
Just want to add, Fiddles and flutes are ok for awhile, but a good UP player adds a lot to a session. Learn some nice airs first and then work on your jigs. reels will be a few years away.
I disagree. Airs are the HARDEST thing to play well on the pipes. Reels might sound more difficult at a superficial level because there are more notes flying past, but playing a slow air well requires a different, and much greater, level of mastery and understanding of the instrument. I play a couple airs but I don't have near enough of that kind of mastery to do it well. I won't play them at a session or anywhere vaguely public (unless I'm totally hammered... I hazily remember trying to play Aisling Gheal during the weekend shenanigans...ouch), but some day...
Listen to airs played by the likes of Ronan Browne and Finbar Furey. Amazing.
Airs are an awkward beast for a session anyway. By definaition (well pretty much) they are a solo affair. So you might as well announce, be off with the rest of you for the next 5 minutes while I do my party piece (am I on the right thread here? ).
Not that i dislike airs, you have to judge when the time is right to play them. It is a bit like a song at a tunes session (only more so), sometimes best to be asked to do one. Problem is mostly people will be able to pick up on the fact that someone might want to sing (a guitar is a good indicator). But how do you know that someone might want to play an air.
I can't focus on the screen I'm so tired, so if this makes even less sense than normal, apols.
Haha. It was brilliant, as he's actually a great musician, but it was just that time of the night where we'd been playing (and drinking) since 3pm, it was nearly 11pm, and we were getting silly.
silver- you'll notice never once did I tar all NPU members with the same brush or pour scorn on the vast amount they have done for the tradition. I more than welcome my copy of An Piobaire through the door every month, like yourself probably. I suggested an underlying an recurring attitude that exists or has existed both at Tional, classes and amongst influential members. One story in particular where one of the best pipers in Belfast or in Ireland for that matter,who teaches open style, was told he would never make a piper, he now greatly surpasses the playing of that individual, across both styles. Its a big enough organisation and tradition not to be so much of a henrietta st personality cult as it once was. Its all irrelavant anyway because to exclude either style from your sphere of influence or playing is to lose out. The suggestion that someone prefers closed because its "harder" augments my point wonderfully. It comes down to what makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and can bring you out of the depths of despair in an instant. For me that is the playing of a select few. John Mc Sherry, Paddy Keenan and Davy Spillane.. Others I can appreciate and see the value in their playing but the hairs on the back of my neck is what im in this for. If you find my posts random and off point then why engage with them to the degree that you have, my only intention was to make a contrabution and foster an awarness of some of the issues surrounding the instrument and culture. all the best
..
On a seperate point .. wisiwasirish - John Mc Sherry = King of the Pipers
You may call me an ejit if you like, trucks, but for me on my lowly plectrum instrument, jigs are definately easier than reels, and as a result they sound better than my reels, but I'm working on it. As for pipes, I have absolutely no idea. I do try to play a bit of whistle and there I can see where playing airs and jigs may not be easier than reels, that's a completely different instrument. I'll admit to a lack of experience, however.
also Silver you say now is not the time to be worrying about open or tight playing yet the start of the process is the CRITICAL time to make this decision as both approaches dictate a completely different setup as regards ornamention. And each approach lays a completely different foundation and platform from where everything else can develop..Its actually "harder" to incorporate tight techniques into open style tunes so the suggestion that tight playing as a style is harder seems a nonsense to me. Open / tight style as can be heard alot in Mc Sherrys playing (Keenans too, to a lesser extent, but sure enough when he wants to its there) is the holy grail as far as many are concerned. and you are right Silver I am entitled to my opinion. To change tack halfway through the learning process is a very confusing and frustrating endevour. My initial learning was off NPU tutorials and I found my self having to unlearn habits, notice i didnt say bad habits. Tight playing was not the route I wanted to follow as I wanted my Piping to be based on open style. The decision of what path to follow will save headache in the early stages of progression. Also to not have an idea of where you are going on a journey before you start seems like an ill fated action. Especially when there are many mediocre pipers out there...
Jimmy B I assumed u wer talking about pipes in which case your comment seemed arbitrary, I know for a fact I could never play a stringed instrument never mind reels jigs or anything else
Trucks -
Yes, I got confused for a moment. I posted something about jigs being easier than reels in another thread about plectum instruments. Sometimes the threads run into each other in my mind. Apologies for the diversion.
SilverSpear is wise Trucks. If Jerry is a complete newcomer to the pipes then he'll have enough on his plate learning to coordinate bellows and bag squeezing, and then trying to seal the holes on the chanter in order to get a decent clean tone free from squeaks.
On top of that there will be the first tune to struggle through and get up to speed. I wouldn't worry about open or close piping at this early stage unless you already have a definite idea of a piping style you want to emulate, or a live tutor who teaches a certain style of piping. John McSherry isn't the king of the pipers, that title is shared by Mick Coyne of Ennis and Michael Dunne of Limerick
Mick O'Brien, Jimmy O'Brien-Moran, Sean McKiernan, Ronan Browne, Peter Laban, Gay McKeon.... Ok, there's six, lots more that could easily be argued as the best.... Just depends on who you like more.
wilkes - what your sayin makes sense, I'm only givin my side of things and hope its of some use. Any conversation or debate on piping styles or cliques is fine with me. And I stand by what ive said.
As for King of the Pipers. I didnt know such a title existed. Wouldnt have called John King of da Pipers if I had known. Was more my opinion. So King of the Pipers is seperate from All Ireland Fleadh Cheoil titles or how does it work? Did Keenan or any other Pavee's ever hold the title? Have heard Mickey Dunne playing but never Mick Coyne.
also if yer mans only squeezin notes out then sure enough fingering styles are further down the line but worth being aware of all the same. Start as you mean to continue
Wow, that's probably the first time ever anyone has called me wise. Cheers, man!
Unless you've listened to lots and lots of pipers, you can't really make decisions regarding which style you want to focus on and even then, you might not make such decisions. I haven't -- I just work out the techniques of both and use them as I feel necessary. I'm sort of half decent at best, but I do what works and don't paint myself into boxes.
Point being, characterizing anyone as "king of the pipers" is daft. There are a good number of amazing players out there, all playing quite differently from one another but still doing great stuff.
Very true TSS, I think Niall Vallely, John McSherry and Mike McGoldrick are amazing pipers too but not cosidered by some maybe because they push the envelope. Liam O' Flynn is another not mentioned yet but needs no introduction.
You mean Cillian Vallely, I think. Niall is his brother and is a hot sh*t concertina player. Now those guys are pushing the envelope. It's brilliant, some of the stuff they're doing.
Should mention too from the Scottish side, Fred Morrison and Simon MacKerrell. The have come from the Highland pipe side and developed a unique and powerful style on Uilleann pipes.
Duelling Pipers at first light - jigs "Peter Byrne's Fancy" and 'The Maid at the Spinning Wheel'. two great tunes on the pipes have been wondering names for ages, forgot about this link , enjoy
nay bother, you beat me to the punch with Barry Kerr and Tiarnan Duinceann have to say they are both on a par with Mc Sherry but not quite ahh tis too close. Neff brothers!! I totally forgot about them! soundpost and bridle, cracker album, mad notes, i like that cape breton style of fiddle too
Doinna live is mindblowing.Especially sitting beside the fella. Cant help being enveloped by this tune and have listened to it probably more than 100 times over the years. Hard to equate it to somthing human, almost super natural, wee folk at work?
At the William Kennedy Festival last year I lost track of how many pipers I saw over the course of the weekend - too many!
Tiarnan was one that instantly jumped out as something special. His use of the regulators was head and shoulders above anything I have heard anyone else doing. Truly magical.
There is not much in the way of recordings of Simon playing the Uilleann Pipes although he did play them on some of the tracks on the first two Back of the Moon albums.
Here is a wee video from this year's Piping Live festival though, playing with Rough Tides:
All the pipers mentioned in this thread are fine musicians and people have different tastes as regards styles of piping and favourite pipers, it's all cool.
Another fine piper is Billy McCormick from Antrim, now living in Co. Clare, a great bloke too, plays a Taylor set with an O'Briain chanter. Billy's playing here: http://www.gnipc.org/tionol/tionol2003.html
the video clips can take a little while to load
I've heard McSherry do things on the pipes that should never be possible! HE is in a league of his own. I think that every piper, when they hear him playing, is frightened by him. They are aware of their limitations and, whether they admit it or not, know that this man doesn't have any.
He has even been known to walk on water, heal lepers and bring sight to the blind! At a wedding in Carryduff he even turned water into wine. He drank it all himself however and that kind of took the shine off that particular miracle!
People talk about listening, Mick Coyne for example, i am blown away by that clip, true genius no one could dispute that. Others too and in that sense the Tradition is rich and its legacy insured. It is hard to play down any of these Pipers playing and style is certainly subjective. But. I have grown up around Pipes and Pipers my father is a piper and my mates are Pipers. Uilleann Piping takes up at least 70percent of my unconcious thought. I understand people are reluctant to say one piper is above them all but if you were only acutely aware of what it is that John Mc Sherry actually DOES on the pipes then you would see. Genius is what many of the Pipers mentioned in this thread have. John has somthing entirely different, somthing I suggest that has not been seen before and will not be repeated. He has invented a new type of Piping beyond style and setting. A force. No one can take away from the playing of the masters but John Mc Sherry is the master. I wish people who share this obcession could only be exposed to the full force of Johns Playing because it is then you would fall quiet in your comparisons.
Oh, please. Give me a break. Alistair doesn't have anything against McSherry. I thought his remark there was hilarious. I guess no wisecracks allowed in the very serious world of uilleann piping. Al doesn't play the pipes so he wasn't there for that day in class.
I have heard McSherry play live on several occasions. The man is impressive, amazing. He's one of my favourite players -- yes, one of. I'm still not going to rate one piper -- McSherry or anyone else -- above all the other amazing pipers out there. Everyone has such a different style, is exploring the instrument in their own way, that half the time you're comparing apples to oranges.
I agree with Trucks.
Every piper that has heard McSherry play, I have no doubt, knows that s/he is in his shadow. Unfortunately we are only human and jealousy can rear its ugly head when we encounter a musician with this much immeasurable talent. I don't think personal taste comes into acknowledging this man's genius. Brian Finnegan's not my favourite flute player but I recognise that the man's a bloody great flutist!
I don't get where people are coming up with the "jealousy" thesis. Is that why we are being reluctant to agree that John McSherry is unquestionably the "best" piper out there. For f*ck's sake, I'm in *everyone's* shadow, but my point is that I think there are players, i.e. Jarlath and Tiarnan, who are pushing the boundaries and doing some pretty amazing stuff as well. It's all a subjective, qualitative thing anyway -- no way to objectively determine who is the best player. I hope to hell it's just the plebes like us who are having this conversation and the guys we're talking about are too gentlemanly and humble to touch this one with a barge pole.
Jarlath and Tiarnan-gret pipers. Pushing the boundaries? mmm -t
(dare I mention his name again) McSherry is the one who has pushed the boundaries. They are, among so many others,followers!
Yes, but No Cause isn't "a lot of musicians." I know him in real life and he really was just being funny -- not groping for jokes about McSherry and alcohol because he had no more comebacks, or even weirder, had any jealousy thing going on. He is someone with an amazing amount of appreciation for brilliant playing. But he also won't pass up the opportunity for a wiseass comment, and given the sort of worshipping posts that appeared on this thread, the door was wide open for that.
I think that of what you can measure objectively: technique, depth of imagination, quantity of articulation's he's created and made available to himself, the sheer amount of things he pulls off with ease that no other piper can do, consistency of imagination etc., I don't think you can doubt that John Mcsherry is head and shoulders above the rest.
Aside from that, however, I still prefer Finbar (when he's on form)
i didnt found the comment funny. I found it derogatory and and inappropriate. I you had made it in my company I would have pulled you for it as would others.
John can transpose and emulate ANYTHING hes hears or wants to do no exception. Meaning he can can take genius of other Pipers and turn it up a notch. A good example is the way he totally modified his playing for the recent Bothy Band tribute, beyond versatile. I agree that any piper that plays with him is in in shadow , I feel that Silver is subconciously tipping the cap to other great Pipers not wanting to compromise his own creditbility. Calculated comments without any real heart. I think you are willfully decieving yourself. As I said there is room for a plethora of genius on the pipes, that coyne clip was a good example and all the others, mindblowing. But they all faal short of what John does and anyone who really knows their stuff would not argue.
To be honest, every good traditional musician has an element to being a "follower" about them. That's part of it, isn't it? Building upon the blocks of the people who came before you and finding your own voice and, if you are exceptionally brilliant, making your own innovations, but innovations based on the tradition. Find that thread Llig Leacim posted months ago titled "Standing on the shoulders of giants." He describes what I am talking about better than I am right now. Those guys have found their own style, which may have elements of what McSherry does (I don't know... I've never chatted to them in great detail about their influences) but they are definitely charting their own musical courses. I wouldn't think of them as just "followers."
I have got absolutely nothing against John McSherry at all. I was making a joke. On the few occasions I have met him he has come across as a great guy and great fun to be around. I even have him to thank for the free copy of Tripswitch I have.
I am sorry if you took offence at my comments. The man is a tremendous musician and possibly the greatest. I will leave that to others to decide. But the level of hero worship on here is getting uncomfortable.
also Jarlaths piping is not fully formed. Brillant yes but until his style settles and he becomes less of a pre madonna I does think anyone can take a real measure of what he can do yet. As for John being fair game for the wise cracks, yeah thats grand when theres no malicious or slanderous intent. As for this being a worshipping post, my life is a better place for the playing of Mc Sherry. So why not wear your heart on your sleeve in this instance. At least its honest.
Thesilverspear
Every trad. musician is attempting to chart their own musical career and yes, these pipers have taken on elements of McSherry's innovations. But they are the same generation as McSherry and are influenced by him (a musician of their own generation, unusual in trad .) None of McSherry's piping generation have influenced his playing. He is influencing his own generation and those generations after him. Some achievement eh?
I agree with Trucks. There a kind of fashionable stand off thing where it's kind of uncool to wax lyrical about people's playing. You're supposed to just shrug it off and keep your adoration to your self. Ballocks to that.
Hero worship suggests and unbalanced level of adoration or praise. In this case that is anything but. If anything the other Pipers mentioned on this thread are heroes too. Thats the whole point! but then you get one that just goes beyond. Anything that has. Im a fighting man, I love my music and I love my Boxing. But I know for a fact heroes take all shapes and forms, just as Martin Rogan is a personal hero of mine , doest make him less so because he was defeated, same with Hatton the list goes on. But then there is that rare fighter than makes your hair stand on end. For many, Ali was the greatest. For many John Mc Sherry is the greatest
TheSilverSpear is female and I can assure you that she spends all the time she possibly can listening to this music, and pipers in particular - both the modern talents of McSherry, Henderson, etc and the old guys with the scratchy out of tune recordings that you are apparently good for your soul.
Personally I would enjoy listening to any piper that can play a nice tune - and that includes Silver Spear, who has a nice touch on her chanter.
This storm in a tea cup is irrelevant - there is no objective measure by which you can identify "best" only your subjective favourite(s) ( Ronan Browne, Liam O'Flynn and Fred Morrison in my case).
Inhibited as equals she doesn't agree with you Trucks? Hope you don't live in a glass house then.
I have known her for years and know that she is a hard working over self critical player with a wide range of Musical influences.
Music isn't about fighting it's about cooroperative effort.
listening and hearing are two seperate things. Gender aside its clear that silver is passionate about the Pipes. I dont know if you have an acedemic background in music but what I would suggest in endemic with people studying music, Trad in particular is a tendancy to be over subjective, anylytical and therfore inhibited in assigning credibiltiy. Like the law of averages you see catagories where they do not exist any quantify accordingly. Although your opinions and indeed knowledge may cover a broads swathe of what is indeed, fact. At worst you are reluctant and from what I can observe, inhibited in what you are prepared to consider, possibly even misguided in being so subjective. At best you try and quantify somthing that cannot be quantified.
Bigdavy
I' m sure SilverSpear is a very nice player. Personally I like and appreciate a lot of pipers' playing - but I do recognise genius when I hear it! Like him or not, McSherry should be given his proper place.
the comparison between Music and Boxing was centred on innate ability and talent. I dont think that music is about coorporative effort in this sense, although a pleasing by product.
"Like him or not, McSherry should be given his proper place."
Who on this thread expressed any dislike for John McSherry? I cracked a joke. It was you who brought up the idea of a problem with alcohol and it was you who has suggested there might be something not to like about the man. As I said, I found him to be a nice guy and an exceptional musician.
dont worry yourself, there is No cause for alarm in this sense, its clear that no one was slagging the man himself. This idea of a problem with alcohol is a load of sh1te anyway. The mans a rocket with a few drinks granted, so are a lot of people. I would rather drink my fill than Fart musli
Did it? I thought I was just making a crack about the Jesus worship. And even as a tee-totaller I can see a difference between liking a drink and having a problem. I don't know John anywhere near enough to make any kind of assessment on his drinking habits and even if I did I would hope I would have more taste than to raise it on a public forum.
I greatly admire John McSherry's musical ability and have most, if not all of the cds that he has released. I apologise for cracking my joke as this conversation seems to have descended somewhat and is a little too personal for my liking. Honestly no offence was intended.
Sorry Trucks but I beg to differ every one is entitled to their opinion . Just because after careful thought they may not agree with you does not make them inhibited.
I think boxing is barbaric what does that make me?
I fail to see what makes John McSherry so special as a uilleann piper? He is indeed a very good piper, has lots of technical ability, and is musical, probably a good tutor, a good professional musician, and I'm sure he's a nice bloke too. But so are many other uilleann pipers. I've listened to a few video clips on youtube and he certainly doesn't grab my attention in the way that Mick Coyne, Mick O'Brien, Billy McCormick, Mickey Dunne and others do. The Doina video clip is nothing to write home about, Davy Spillane has done that sort of music with the synthesizer in the background years ago. It's a bit pointless this "My dad is bigger than your mum" stuff innit.
I can respect that you really admire McSherry and his style of piping and that's fair enough, we all have different tastes though. I'd rather listen to Pat Mitchell for example. SilverSpear is a good piper, getting better all the time by the way
Dave, you did miss my point. I accept if you dont like Boxing, I just thought it was a helpful comparsion in term of innate ability. But if you are not a fan then you may fail to see the merit in that. Fighting and music come from the same place in your stomach belive it or not. Mabye you are too evolved and civilised and more power to ya.
My point about the way in which an academic approach to trad can negate its true nature was obviously lost on you. I also get the impression you are looking yer hole, albeit in a civiled and "non barbaric " way.
Steamwilkes
Don't listen to him on Youtube. Go and listen to his records! Or if you're lucky enough to hear him at a session, go listen to him there. McSherry is a natural - passionate, wild, a technical master, an innovator and oozing emotion. He can't read music and plays completely by ear and from the heart. What's not to admire! And I would say anyone who is not blown away by Doinna must be tone deaf.
Wilkes, My view of Mc Sherry is irrelevant. Your voice of moderation seems like a cop out. Your prodige's argument seems seated in musical arithmatic to an extent, so I feel my overall point has not been taken. Just beacause there is a wealth of genius does not mean one cannot surpasss the rest..Coyne is certainly a genuis and virtuoso layer, the Doinna clip was un synth d so I dont know where u got that from. If people are ignorant to the nature of Johns Playing im not worried. You obviously think you have enough musical credentials to be blase about him.
I have expressed in terms as best I can how some interpret his playing and have been honest about the significance it holds for me and indeed my family. There is certainly a wealth of Piping to find fulfilment in and enough genius Pipers like Coyne or Duinceann who could sustain anyones interest, talent and development for a lifetime. Adversion to Mc Sherrys mythical status is typical of trad nerds who are not prepared to go feet first . I find many posts lacking in passion. So if I fail to recognise someone as having not given due consideration or or being inhibited by academic attitudes. Mc Sherrys playing is not the only path to enlightenment, what it cant be is quantified. In doing you show yourself to be arrogant.
so apologies** if I fail to recognise someone as having not given due consideration or or being inhibited by academic attitudes. Mc Sherrys playing is not the only path to enlightenment, what it cant be is quantified. In doing you show yourself to be arrogant.
Why does perfection need to evolve?
There is no evolutionary pressure
Woos's have only a short life span round here.
I believe music comes from the heart , stomach is for food.
wrong. when the heart gives in the stomach takes over..
be it playing no matter what else is going on or getting a last dig in even though its hopeless. Neither pursuits are based in logic. and are a measure.
Aye, I do my best to produce a hive of honeyed sounds from an instrument I acquired in the late 1900's, from the tiny back garden workshop of a Mr. Dave Williams R.I.P. of Newark, Notts.
In the Doiina clip Mr. McSherry has the synthesizer on his left with a bloke standing with a (Martin?) guitar on his right, how can you not hear the synth Sligech?. Nowt wrong with this video clip if this is what you're into, certainly not my cup of tea though, Boring and tedious, Next!!!
spectacular FAIL from wilkes to deal effectivley with comments directed at himher.. synth or not, Spillane couldnt even replicate or pull that off. there were sounds out of that chanter that no one knew existed and whether its your cup of tea or not its the height of arrogance not to give credit where credit is due. I think you have Pipers evny grey balls.
I wasn't aware that Steamwilkes did not give credit where it was due. On the contrary he was very complimentary about McSherry's piping and respectful of your feelings on the matter. He just commented that, in his opinion, he was not that taken by the Doinna clip.
I personally like his playing of it and saw him play it live at last year's William Kennedy Festival more than once. I would agree he does a very good job of it. I would however like to hear him do a different slow air from time to time. He is so good at that one I would love to hear more.
Why are so many pipers envious of McSherry ?( actually I can hear why, you don't need to answer that).
Why, as Trucks says, are they too arrogant to give credit where credit's due?
My pont is that what i think is irrelavant. The music speaks for itslef. If we are drawn on subjects and enjoy a bit of banter fair enuf.. i like tunes.. anyone else?
and this is a better link that that blas cheoil which doesnt even stream properly.. http://www.myspace.com/pigeontopmusic
n joy...
"I fail to see what makes John McSherry so special as a uilleann piper? He is indeed a very good piper, has lots of technical ability, and is musical, probably a good tutor, a good professional musician, and I'm sure he's a nice bloke too. But so are many other uilleann pipers."steamwilkes
Admittedly you "fail" to see how special Mc Sherry is blah blah blah, you just cant call a spade a spade for fear of digging..
"He is indeed a very good piper, has lots of technical ability, and is musical, probably a good tutor, a good professional musician, and I'm sure he's a nice bloke too."
Ouch!
Because you say that SW must be jealous of John McSherry and that he therefore is probably not a very good musician. To me it seems that you want to hear him to validate that opinion. I would argue that even if he was the worst piper in the World he would still be entitled to his opinions as to who he particularly liked. And my justification for that is that I think that you and I are also entitled to our opinions despite being 'lowly' guitarists.
I'm lovin' the amount of amateur psychoanalysis happening on this thread. That's a time honoured method of not making an argument: accusing the people who disagree with you of having subconscious motivations and thoughts which they don't know about (obviously -- they're subconscious) but conveniently invalidate their arguments. Classy. As is asserting that people who disagree with you aren't enlightened enough to know what they're talking about. Are you really saying that your understanding and appreciation of piping is so amazing, your ear so good, your sense of the music so completely and fundamentally perceptive, that anyone who dares to disagree with you either doesn't have a clue or is "inhibited." Wow, dude. That's arrogance.
All I'm saying is that while McSherry is a phenomenal, innovative, and brilliant piper, he is not the only guy on the planet who has achieved that kind of mastery of the instrument. I'm not going to accept the contention that he is and attacking my judgment and perception isn't going to convince me otherwise.
And cheers, Ali, Dave, and Wilkes for the kind words.
On a totally different note, the OP has probably been totally put off the uilleann pipes upon seeing what a raving bunch of mad, contentious, opinionated loonies pipers are.
Are you really saying that your understanding and appreciation of piping is so amazing, your ear so good, your sense of the music so completely and fundamentally perceptive, that anyone who dares to disagree with you either doesn't have a clue or is "inhibited."
I don' need to hear him in order to validate my opinion. And whatever way he plays the pipes, I don't need to hear him to ascertain that he's not even at the same ball game as McSherry.
I asserted that in my view you had a academic approach in presenting your views on the pipes, I speculated that that may affect your interpretation.
"I would suggest in endemic with people studying music, Trad in particular is a tendancy to be over subjective, anylytical and therfore inhibited in assigning credibiltiy. Like the law of averages you see catagories where they do not exist any quantify accordingly. Although your opinions and indeed knowledge may cover a broads swathe of what is indeed, fact. At worst you are reluctant and from what I can observe, inhibited in what you are prepared to consider, possibly even misguided in being so subjective. At best you try and quantify somthing that cannot be quantified."
.. notice I used the word observe, at no stage did I present this as a difinitive "mock up" of your influcences or "psyche"!!!!!come on!. Speculatory possibly but not arrogant. Arrogance is the trait that inhibits or "prevents" people under such influence to consider for a second that someone else might be right to the detrement of their musical universe. In this case i aknowledged the weath of genuis at hand and even submitted that following Mc Sherrys playing was not the only path to enlightenment.
and ,if you "dare" to disagree at least do it with passion for your subject matter, instead of passing referrals.. At no stage did anyone adverse to my take on things present another Piper on equal terms. That would have been better than simply resigning yourselves to "theres alot of good Pipers isnt there".
Trucks -- when you box, do you land a few punches on the referee for good measure? Does your corner man take a few hits when getting you back on your stool? Just asking.
"while McSherry is a phenomenal, innovative, and brilliant piper, he is not the only guy on the planet who has achieved that kind of mastery of the instrument. I'm not going to accept the contention that he is and attacking my judgment and perception isn't going to convince me otherwise."silver ..
You hint at my intransigent attitudes!, yet if questioning ones judgment and perception does not occur when challanged or as you put it "attacked" then surley you are the uncomprmising one.
You talk of mastery of the instrument but thats only half of it, Its his take on the tunes, intuitive and without equal. Im totally serious. I submit that his technical mastery is probably on a par with others, his musical mastery and improvisation is beyond what anyone has tapped into.
note to the OP ~ find a session with people playing tunes. Playing tunes is much more satisfying than measuring each players' ability.
everyone else ~ carry on!
I want to hear you play as I think that if you are going to criticise someone else's right to express an opinion based on their ability to play (even when you have not heard them) then you should be expected to be held to the same standard.
and what? "Hero worship suggests and unbalanced level of adoration or praise. In this case that is anything but. If anything the other Pipers mentioned on this thread are heroes too. Thats the whole point! but then you get one that just goes beyond. Anything that has. Im a fighting man, I love my music and I love my Boxing. But I know for a fact heroes take all shapes and forms, just as Martin Rogan is a personal hero of mine , doest make him less so because he was defeated, same with Hatton the list goes on. But then there is that rare fighter than makes your hair stand on end. For many, Ali was the greatest. For many John Mc Sherry is the greatest"
just so we have that wee addage of yours in context. wouldnt want to misrepresent what I said now would ye?
No refs, persay. Do you find that anything that doesn't have it's guard up, makes too tempting a target? Anyway, all this talk about piping and kingship ignores the real question: who is the evil archduke of the pipers?
And where, prey tell, have I criticised someone else's Right to express an opinion. You seem somewhat confused between two things here: disagreeing with someone's opinion about something; and denying someone's right to express that opinion.' the latter of which I have not done. You, on the other hand are starting to express quite an aggressive attitude to my opinions. Calm down, mate.
note to OP.. often when you cut people down in a conversation they then misrepresent what you said to their own end..
note to OP 2 If you want to be mediocre stay within a clique, be good enough for sessions but not for performance and dont whatever you do seek out and measure the greatness of musicians
quigley-- Your insight is unerving. Having had the head punched off my more times than I care to remember, i take what I can get.. the Boxing metaphor was used to justify and define hero worship when hinted that "hero worship" was to the exclusion of others. I cant see where this thread is going now and as for Evil arch duke of Piping..?
I am perfectly calm. I am just annoyed by petty attempts to undermine decent people on here. Calling for an example of SW's playing was just one example. Labelling any suggestion that McSherry is not the best as jealousy is another. Truck's labelling of Emily as inhibited is a third. You are some double team you two.
I am not confused at all about the difference between disagreeing with someone's opinion and denying their right to express an opinion. The both of you have been quite clear about the validity of anyone else's opinions.
Anyway you asked for an example of Steamwilkes' playing so I am, again, asking for an example of yours. As you don't play the pipes I would be happy to take an example of your guitar playing. Beforehand I was not bothered. Now I am genuinely curious.
No Cause to the rescue!! I suspect someone is looking their HOLE (sexy fun time) come session time.. but sure why not !!
"il protect you from those beastly John Mc Sherry fans on the internet"
O no cause, I felt so inhibited but now your here....
I certainly did not ask for an example of his playing. And as I have already stated, I don't need to hear him in order to assert McSherry's supperiority when it comes to playing them.
YOU accused me of denying others the RIGHT to express an opinion. Not True. They have expressed their opinions and I disagree strongly with them and make no apology for that.
And as for you asking for an example of my work and "happy to take an example" of my playing....I am amused.
and I didnt label silver, as we established ..Bit slow? the fact that you think I did makes me think I was close to the mark. In which case you are the one making a very presumptuos Psychoanaylsis. tisk ..
This is a fascinating thread. In some ways I feel like I've learned some things about pipers (some good and some bad), and then again I feel totally confused. I highly respect piping and wish I had the inclination for it. Alas, stinged instruments are ingrained so indelibly into my body and mind, as I am discovering through my struggles with the whistle. I have a perception of pipers, some of which has been influenced by this thread, and some of which leans to the negative. These are perceptions, so I am fully aware I may need some education in this area.
Some of the terms that come to mind in those negative perceptions are "opinionated," "cliquish," "arrogant," "snobby," and a bit "argumentative." My amateur opinion tells me that, although such terms cast a negative light, they have a bit of understandability. Anyone who invests the expense and dedication that such an instrument requires, and achieves any level of proficiency, deserves to be a little arrogant and opinionated. There, I said it.
Perhaps those negative perceptions are unfair, I don't know, but there they are. Seriously, though, are any of my perceptions warranted? Or are they completely misguided? Somewhere in the middle?
"Actually Silver, he is the only guy who has acheived that kind of mastery of the instrument. Hands down." Sligeach.
hmm... a case of the emporer's new clothes perchance?
Look Trucks & Sligeach it's alright if you believe that Mr. McSherry is the best uilleann piper in the universe. You just have to accept the fact that not everybody agrees and try somehow to continue with your lives. Let's agree to disagree. I hope Mr. McSherry isn't reading this thread, he could assume we're a bit mental.
Re: Advice on the pipes
i view silver spears comments as inhibited and I wish him all the best in his playing but more in his listening
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Trucks_Mulligan
******
Re: Advice on the pipes
Can I ask, Wilkes,are you a piper?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
i concur it would be interesting to note Wilkes's musical background. His credentials are evident in his tone
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Trucks_Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Love to hear you playing pipes Wilkes!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
And so the character assassination continues! Thanks Truck.
Sligeach - I have already told you many times why I want to hear your playing. You have not explained once why you want to hear Steamwilkes. I can only assume your reticence is out of embarrassment. If it is that is fine. Just come out and say it and I will drop the matter.
Well that is an interesting point Sligeach. The three of us have all been on here for a long time and have all been posting fairly regularly. You on the other hand just showed up out of nowhere and proceeded to glue yourself to the opinions of Trucks.
all those NC quotes are free for anyone to see if you just scroll up a wee bit .. Im thinking No Cause is ina meltdown since it was suggested he hokes bins and is lookin his hole.. Careful now No Cause you wouldnt want to drop any more of those straws.
Big lad? Get over it? Do you mean get over your inability to answer a simple question or stand by what you have said on this forum. I don't think I will "get over it". I am witnessing two childish bullies run roughshod over everyone else and you need standing up to. If you are not big enough yourself to answer your critics then toddle off.
SWFL - Seriously, it's not a windup. I am genuinely intrigued by this thread and admit to a lack of experience here. They are perceptions, and as long as one admits to it and has a healthy level of humility attached, nobody can fault me for it.
In case you hadn't noticed, my interest in hearing Wilkes play was not real or genuine., sorry!!!!!!!! Anyway if he was any good, we would be discussing His playing on this site. But I'm certain everybody would be grateful for you to "drop the matter" as you are starting to get tedious.
no cause - you say you are witnessing two childish bullies..
even since the "No Cause to the rescue moment" the quest for your hole and the footage of you hoking bins , are you sure you are just not witnessing getting stroked .. ? a cracker
I am getting tedious? You have been here for 5 minutes and you have had nothing good to say to date. You are a little child that has toddled into the grown up's argument. Go away.
My opinions are my own.
Don't know Trucks. You three on the other hand seem to know eachother quite well.
You are the bully NoCause. Initially you tried to make yourself out as a bit of a misunderstood joker, but you are obviously quite rattled by mine and others opinions here - now you're just being nasty!! If you have nothing valid to say maybe you should say nothing more.
I like the suggestion that Ali, Steamwilkes, and I are the same person.
Anyway, thinking McSherry (who if he is reading this, is probably laughing so hard he's crying) is the greatest piper, ever, is fine and good. But it's arguing your point via ad hominem attacks which annoys me. You can surely put together a better case than merely asserting that everyone who disagrees with doesn't have a clue (and is all the same person without a clue, which is pretty funny).
Anyway, I did reference a couple pipers who I thought were on par with McSherry. Maybe you disagree, maybe they don't make your hair stand on end the way McSherry does, and that's fine, but at least acknowledge that it's your opinion rather than objective fact. There's a difference, surprisingly.
Jimmy,
Go with SWFL's assessment that pipers, for the most part, are batsh*t crazy. I'd also go with surly and opinionated to boot. But mostly stark raving mad.
HA! Love you guys, y'all crack me up. I wish we were all in a big room together so Jimmy and I could play tunes while we waited for you guys and gals to finish fixing your reeds.
wow silver you got two different people mixed up. I never accused you of being multiple people. This thread is getting exaustive. In addition I wasn't asserting you lack of "a clue" infact If anyone took you seriously in this thread it was me..Just cause I poked you a bit to see what happened doesnt mean I wasnt aware of the fact you know what you are talking about and that is obvious. a
nd you are probably right, as a case study it would be pretty extensive. If not inconclusive and yeah if John read this he would probably laugh, not least at the extent that this NO Cause fella in being stroked. There are those who will read this who know me and know im only messin unlike yer fella who is definately hokin for a quick sqeeze. good luck ..
Initially you tried to make yourself out as a bit of a misunderstood joker, but you are obviously quite rattled by mine and others opinions here - now you're just being nasty!!
No cause right enough mate.. you are playing the victim yet you are the one who made jokes at others expense at the very start. only to back down when you realised people didnt appreciate it. If you complain of rough treatment at least it isnt behind your back , or quickly retracted once you test the waters. You wrer given the benifit of the doubt yet it seems you have double standards. You have no call to be precious -you are as fair game as anyone else who contributes.. which you are entitled to do.
"Go with SWFL's assessment that pipers, for the most part, are batsh*t crazy. I'd also go with surly and opinionated to boot. But mostly stark raving mad." SilverSpear.
I can agree to that. I'm also a vegetarian and a biker
I've not played victim once, I wasn't testing any waters and I don't have double standards. I did not back down. I apologised for any misunderstanding. There is a difference.
I am not rattled by anyone's opinions on here. You are perfectly entitled to think that John is the best piper around and I have not even disagreed with you on that. What I have objected to is the needless attacks that the two of you have made on other people on here, the snide comments and the belittling.
You said yourself that there are those who read this thread who know you and will know you are only messing. There are many who do not know you however and after having read this will have no desire to know you. Likewise there will be plenty of people reading this thread, both those that have commented and those that just lurk, who know me well and know I am not the type of person that you have painted me out to be.
It is a shame that what started out as a simple question from someone new to the board has descended into a very bitter thread. I can probably take my share of the blame for that for encouraging some of the nonsense we have seen but really some of the comments here are really inexcusable.
Just because NC haS no proper combacks doesnt mean he can paint everyone else as the bad guy . enough. you take yourself very seriously pal..
this is obviously not fun for you so I would suggest u clear off and find someone else you like to talk to or a a discussion you feel conforms your delicate framework of what is acceptable. and you know what. If you had accepted a bit of slagging and fired a bit back yud be grand and I wouldnt think u wer a twit
I dont test the water to see if people like my joke so maybe I didnt get a fair chance to back out of what ive said. unlike you..If theres anything you want me to directly apologise for speak up. or is it the other fella that wronged ye. or is it just not findin anything in those bins. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c7sM9APQ
I think it's important to realize and admit here that musicians, on the whole, are a childlike lot. And, like children, there are going to be skinned knees and bruised cheeks on the playground from time to time. Let's be like those schoolchildren, shall we, and stand up, brush ourselves off, and keep playing.
Why should this site descend into slagging? Why can it not just be a place for helpful advice, at least in threads like this one. I am happy for a bit of banter but that is not what this is. This has been a difficult thread to keep track of due to all the cross-posting and the banality of some of the comments.
If you think I am a twit that is entirely your own prerogative. I have got enough friends that I don't really care about a sh*t-stirrer like you.
You seem to be under the impression that I am somehow upset or emotional because of this thread. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am amazed at the brass neck you have displayed. That is true but I am more than willing to argue the toss until the cows come home. I will admit however that your recent posts have left me a little weary. If the sort of personal comments you have made about people you do not know are what you consider banter then I am very glad I don't get to experience your banter face to face.
I do not think I have said anything on this thread that I would not be happy to say to someone's face. I do not hide behind an anonymous username for example. It just takes one click to find out exactly who I am. I like to think I am, by and large, a helpful person on this site who offers genuine advice when I can and would hope for the same in return. There are comments I have made and threads I have started in the past that, on reflection, I would not do but that is life.
I can have a laugh and a joke but we clearly have different senses of humour and I am less keen on "abusive humour" than you appear to be. Cest la vie!
As I said I have not backed down from anything I have said. I don't care if you apologise to me or not. I really don't. But since you ask I do think you owe Steamwilkes and TheSilverSpear an apology for the total lack of respect shown to them. As I doon't imagine that is coming however we should probably just draw a line in the sand and move on.
ok fella.. how many one liners did u steal from my ma ?.. ""argue the toss" .. "until the cows come home".. "brass neck" .. has the doctor been perscribing you valium and xxl fanny pads recently ?
You hide behind what would seem a reasonable commentary but what amounts to a "cop out" and self rightous tantrum cuz u got slagged. Failure to lauch any decent slaggings made you defensive has created the perception that there are people against you. Instead of having the crack you got wound up.The fact you display your real name on this thing shows me that you use this site in fulfilling some need for social affirmation, and reassurance, it also implys that you think people give a sh1t who you are,
telling me" i have plenty of freinds" in the context of our brief exchange re-inforces this and makes me feel a bit bad for you. However , Your victimhood has started to monopolise this discussion and since you seem inclined to have the last word and quite desperate to paint yourself as Earnest Goodguy Mc Simple soul I will let you..
Wow! I only left this this morning! I knew it would be dangerous to enter the pipers' lair ...
Now, I know it won't do a bit of good wading into this, but it is interesting how certain contributors come over so badly on this thread, and slightly satisfying (in a smug sort of way) to think that it's those very same people who won't for a moment suspect it's them.
I'm looking at the bios and would like to pose a practical question: Are there any pipers engaged in this thrilling debate about piping? I'm uncertain.
I actually feel bad.. Some people obviously take this more seriously than me. Didnt mean to slag ye mate, you seem alrite. I see the words on the screen and I wire a few back. In fairness I let you off the hook a couple of times for making cracks about peoples drinking. In for a penny . notice not once have i slagged Athalupa Quigley for example. why? because she doesnt slag others.. you did, so as bad as I feel that you got the full force of slagging back. dont take it personally.
I think we should all feel a little bad, not about slagging perse, but for the poor OP. All he was trying to do was get some useful input on starting up on the pipes. Poor guy.
Trucks -- This must be my karma, for it was not too long ago I mistook random_notes here for being a gal. Random took this all with aplomb, I must say. Never said anything about it. He even took my remarks about Texas with great forbearance. There's a lesson in this.
You are a dude? sorry. :( I had you down as this female yoda figure. It was not my intention to emasculate. i will admit my karma involved methylphenidate today, and looking back is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. on learnt 3 choons back to back so twasnt for lack of a decent theme tune.
To the original poster... I'm not sure if you're still reading, but in response to your original question: I'm a beginner on the pipes, but working hard at it and with a good practice set. I play up to three times a week with a wide variety of people who always seem happy when I show up, and often ask for specific tunes once the pipes are going. As with other instruments, there's an unofficial repertoire of 'piping tunes' and people will likely ask you for their favorites. Of course everybody has their own preferences, but my experience has been that the pipes are generally welcomed by those familiar with them and arouse curiosity in those who aren't.
Also, from what I've heard a David Daye set is fine to get you started, but I think even David would tell you if you plan to stick with it you'll want to get on a maker's list for a 'real' set of pipes (one made from traditional materials, not a budget set) as soon as you can manage, and start saving your pennies.
"Knowing John, I think I can safely say he would be mortified by all this."
I've only met him a couple times at tionols and festivals but from what I could tell, yeah, I bet he would be.
Trucks,
Unless you actually know someone in real life, it's not always obvious on an internet forum when someone is being deadly serious or when they're just taking the p*ss. This is a known flaw in the medium.
SS, I know, I just was wondering in general because it appeared that a good number of posters in the thread in general made no mention of pipes in their profile, so I thought it was interesting that such a heated argument about piping had so many posters that appeared not to be pipers, myself included. This thread was a trainwreck and I found myself getting dragged along. One of the most mental threads I've ever seen and/or been involved in, to be sure. Life and the session moves on, both of which are too short to carry baggage, unless the baggage contains and instrument.
"Knowing John, I think I can safely say he would be mortified by all this" Mountainkid.
I can imagine. Started off with a normal question and then went mental when Mr. McSherry's blue blood was questioned. I assume he would see the funny side though.
Anyway Jerry I hope you do get hold of a practice set and venture into the world of piping. A Daye practice set should do you alright and the price is decent.
This has been quiet for some time now. I just flew over most of the posts and even risking of stirring it up again, I had to form a reply in regards to an above statement on Jarlath Henderson.
Here is the quote I am going to comment on: "also Jarlaths piping is not fully formed. Brillant yes but until his style settles and he becomes less of a pre madonna I does think anyone can take a real measure of what he can do yet. "
I am quiet sure that Jarlath playing is formed to the extent his ontake to Uilleann piping requires it, in other words, it is perfect in my opinion.
Here is to the reason why I believe it to be so:
Listening to Jarlath, gives me a clear idea, that he has a very different "energy" and aesthetic motivation for playing the Uilleann pipes, than any other piper that has been mentioned here so far. It is not fitting, in my opinion to state that John McSherry is a better piper than Jarlath, as Jarlath display of energetic technicality as well as highly imaginative musicality is not comparable to Johns rather smooth -and compared- "unadventurous" delivery of tunes. It is like comparing a guy sitting in a Merceds, smoothly driving down the streets of Monaco to a guy in a Defender, winning an off road race.... Now who is the better driver? We can not tell as the discipline is different.
Jarlath display of efforteless technical virtuosity is very probably unparalelled in todays piping world. His control of the very difficult and very varying embellishement techniques he uses at sometimes incredible fast as well as nicely groovy pace are highliting his mastery of the instrument. The point being, he can play like many of todays other top pipers if he choose to do so...most of them though could not play like him if ever they felt like trying...
He is not only a master of the Chanter, his playing on the regulators is matching his style and virtuosity on the chanter. The point here being, that many great pipers have a slight weakness on either chanter or regulator work when playing both together, resulting in a stylistic approach that either limitates the regulator work in favor of chanter expression and technique or that favors regulator work to the cost of chanter virtuosity.
Jarlath musical immagination and capacity to vary tunes and improvise on them using stylistic aesthetics of modern trad, sometimes called "jazzy" (a jazz musician would not call them jazz fusion or any the like, as it has nothing to do with that really) is in my opinion and to my knowledge only really paralleled by Tyler Duncan, who might even be considered to be really credited for taking piping to a new dimension. A dimension, in which the pipes are free of "the tradition" in which they seem to be held as an artefact by a great number of enthusiasts, for noble but in the same time -so I believe- naive reasons.
As to the statement of Jarlath aledgedly being a primadonna:
I do know Jarlath personally, and to my experience - for the star he really is (considered to be the best piper that ever lived by vast audiences in continental Europe as well as Britain) - he is a very friendly, overly humble and well mannerd guy. I can not see where the impression of "primadonna" comes from. His hair was long, yes...he gives more attention to his dress than most other pipers, maybe...but that has not yet qualified his for Primadonna.
Advice on the pipes
Advice on the pipes
Hi everybody.Since i'm going to start saving up for a practice set of uilleann pipes I was wondering if they are a well accepted instrument. I mean I wouldn't really like going into a session with them and all of a sudden everybody starts looking at me funny and hints at me to leave. Also I was wondering if David Daye's pipes are good as they are the set I am looking at. Thank you in advance.
Jerry
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by WishiwasIrish
Re: Advice on the pipes
Go for it Jerry
I for one am always glad to see the pipes as long as they are in tune with everyone else . Good luck its a hard road not often traveled that brings its own reward.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
Jerry, get a feel for what Piping is all about before you decide to invest "your life" which is essentially what you will do with the Uilleann Pipes more so than with most instruments. Having to ask if there alrite in a session makes me think you need more exposure to the tradition and the sounds. Also with playing the pipes it is good to know what path you want to follow and what style is most appealing to you before you start. The only way to do this is listen. I learn in Belfast, the North of Ireland is steadily becoming associated with a style of its own, a style largely but not exclusively developed from "open playing" but with a fair bit of tight "closed playing" this bit of an abitrary statement but the style emerging up here presents the tunes differently in both the setting of the tune and grace notes, use of hammering and yelps and slides. A good example of this style can be seen in the playing of John Mc Sherry. The different styles of open and closed come from different schools and traditions of piping, as a general rule "open technique" leaves the 4th and 5th fingers open whilst playing the melody. Using closed fingering only for triplets, runs, stops and some other separate ornamentation seperate from the main body of the tune, I aslo prefer to cut mostly using the back D finger as it gives the tunes a totally different structure. Some teachers, particularly in Na Piobarai Uilleann circles, WILL usually tell you Open style is wrong. People who are so quick to pass this judgment are usually arrogant mediocre pipers unable awknowlege progression or give credit where credit is due. .The only way to see the difference and decide which style you prefer is to listen to different Pipers.Pipers. for open style I would cite Paddy Keenan, Finbar Furey, Davy Spillane, John Mc Sherry, Barry kerr, for closed some brillant Pipers include Tiarnan O Duinnchinn and Robbie Hannon. There are merits in both styles and some crossover. The fundamentals of you Piping need to be in place early on for you to be a good player. So make a decision what you want. Good luck.
Ps. Never heard of the maker you mention. Getting hold of a good practice set is essential so do your research
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I agree with the first part of Truck's post -- it is an instrument you have to invest your life in and become completely obsessed about. And aye, given that you asked if it is appropriate for sessions tells me that you should probably do a lot more listening to Irish music before you commit yourself to a set of pipes.
I've never had anyone, from NPU or anywhere else, say that playing open is wrong. It's inaccurate, at best, to say that piping is this bipolar thing, with a closed and open style, when any piper you ever meet who is even halfway decent is on a continuum. However, since the OP is asking if the uilleann pipes are appropriate to sessions, this is probably somewhat irrelevant anyway and he may or may not have a clue what we are on about. Probably not. It looks like you just used it as a platform to rail against NPU for no particularly good reason.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Oh, and David Daye is a fellow in the States who makes delrin pipes. The ones I have heard sounded fine enough to learn on. Or put this way: I want to acquire a Daye set or something like it so I can lug it up mountains and play at the summit, but I'd never use it as my main instrument in any other context.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
"the North of Ireland is steadily becoming associated with a style of its own, a style largely but not exclusively developed from "open playing" but with a fair bit of tight "closed playing" this bit of an abitrary statement"
Did u read my post??
to say Piping in a Bi- Polar thing in this context would be "inaccurate". Which is why I didn't say it. mate.. reference the above.
Apologies if i wasnt clear enough for you. I cited development and divergence of styyes not exclusivity. The only exclusivity in terms of attitudes to piping style I have heard has come from the heart of the above mentioned organisation. Just because YOU havn't heard NPU piping teachers admonish open style doesnt mean it hasn't happend and has infact been the prevalant attitute up until very recently. To be more specific would be unfair and unwise. No suprise however that people jump to act as an apologist when they dont know the facts.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I think the OP was asking if a practice set is OK for sessions, not whether pipes generally are OK.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by DaveL35
Re: Advice on the pipes
in some ways practice set is more suitable for session. less risk of damage
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Woah, didnt expect so much. The reason why I asked if they are good for sessions was because where I live I hardly hear anything about the pipes, so I was just wondering if people didnt like the sound of if it or if it was because they are so difficult to learn. Anyways thanks for the advice on davids pipes, i'm still looking into the different makers and how it is played. I'm a flute and whistle player which is pretty simple to me but the pipes are pretty complex. I'll try and get something other than one of david's so I wouldnt have as much trouble selling it if I completely suck for the first year or so.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by WishiwasIrish
Re: Advice on the pipes
I'm with Bazouki Dave: get yourself a set--you won't regret it. Everywhere I've ever played they have been very well received. If they are in tune, and you know what that means if you already play the flute, you will have no trouble other than keeping them in tune. A practice set is no more complex than a flute stuck in a bag and bellows, with the advantage that you can chew gum while you are playing.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by gam
Re: Advice on the pipes
Trucks,
My claims that I have never heard NPU advocating one style over another as if preaching some religion are about as well supported as yours are that you have heard that. Have you ever seen the Monty Python, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch? This is like that. "Other than Willie Week, piping tuition, publishing and marketing albums of various pipers, organizing gigs, organizing tionols, trying to make practice sets or accessible, archiving old material, what has NPU ever done for us?"
In any case, you are welcome to whatever opinion you like about NPU but your comments are still random for this thread. The poor OP wanted to know what session musicians thought of uilleann pipes and what makers he should look into. Nobody who is at that stage of their journey into this mad instrument is or should be worrying too much about open v. tight styles and how many triplets they're putting into a tune.
Wishiwasirish,
If you're normal like the rest of us, you will completely suck for the first year or so. It's not an instant gratification type of instrument. You have to work your a*se off and accept that you will suck for far longer than you want to suck. The reasons you don't see lots of them is that it is a rare instrument, a b*gger to learn to play, a b*gger to maintain, and a b*gger to get a hold of, especially if you live in Irish music boonies where there aren't pipers around who can help you.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
" A practice set is no more complex than a flute stuck in a bag and bellows, with the advantage that you can chew gum while you are playing."
Um, no. Some of the techniques are similar and lots aren't. You can't transpose flute or whistle technique straight to the pipes and expect to be able to play the pipes well.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Thanks for your advice silverspear. I'm really going to have to go off of what I can since there is nobody around to teach me the pipes. There might be one or two people that have some experience with the highland pipes but I dont know how much it would help me. I know i'm in for a rough one but I think I can do it.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by WishiwasIrish
Re: Advice on the pipes
Where do you live 'wish' there may be some one around whom you have not met yet. Some pipers are quite shy folks but often open to other pipers.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
I'm lovin the debate on open/closed styl! Personally i really do tend t go fo the more closed stye as i think it is harder to master and therefore, there is a sense of gratification out of it.
I also have to agree with the fact that tking up the pipes is defos an ordination in itself. Not only have I become obsessed with the pipes but my dad is as well, and he doesn't even play.
You will definately tend to find that you will suck so badly when you start, i feel like i still suck and i have been playing for six years. I really have so much respect for those wanting to learn. I say go for it and with this set you are thinking of getting, it doesn't matter who made them, just as long as you have someone look over them who knows what good reed is, nd wht a good set should sound like.
good luck mannn
xxx
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by fluter
And if you really are in the ITM desert...
...you can get some decent tuition on-line. There are a couple of chaps that offer lessons via Skype; http://www.uilleannobsession.com/ is one that I've used once or twice (due to bandwidth and time issues, rather than teaching issues). Pat is very patient and, in my experience, a good teacher.
Oh, and I play (or try to) a set of Dayes. Not bad, but if you do get good at it, you'll probably eventually want to upgrade.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by JLC
Re: Advice on the pipes
Where do you live? You'll need a support group to show you what can and will go wrong. Also get to a tionol or piper's workshop - you can get opinions on sets, how much should I spend, etc, Pipes are not learned in a vacuum and need some proding to get over the ugly parts. Get the Heather Clarke book and the first DVD of the NPU's how to play. Go listen to every piper you can get a CD on and go watch one LIVE. Check Pat D'Arcy site, Uilleann Obsession for gatherings and sets bought and sold.
Don't get swayed by open/close talk at this moment in your career. You'll need some determination to get air from the bellows to the bag and into a chanter with the requisite first and second octave scales. This is not an instrument for instant gratification like a keyboard or guitar. But, it is a lot of fun and you meet the best people.
Hope this helps.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by I_Fel
Re: Advice on the pipes
'You can't transpose flute or whistle technique ...'
You misunderstand. I said that it is no more complex. More difficult, yes, and a different technique. But not complex, which is what the OP was worried about. That comes later.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by gam
Re: Advice on the pipes
TSS and Trucks: from an outsider's point of view, you seem to me to be saying the same thing, so no need to fall out about it. And, I know I'm not a piper ... but I get what you're on about with 'open' and 'closed' styles, and the continuum and so on ... I read Trucks' original post as saying just that. So you're agreeing. I think.
Ah well, not being a piper, I'm not used to the ornariness ...
Just to add a response to the OP's question: badly played pipes are absolutely hideous in a session context. And it will take years and years and years before you would play to a standard that's barely acceptable. Which is probably why you don't see them so much outside of sessions in Ireland and at festivals. But don't let that stop you. If you want to completely immerse your whole life in music at the expense of everything else ... go for it!
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Advice on the pipes
There's a couple of weird things going on in this thread that need highlighting for clarity:
WishiwasIrish? Flipin heck ... I don't know where he/she's from, but they ought to get that daft wish under control. Do they think that playing the pipes will make them more Irish that just playing the flute and whistle. Why not shout "Begora" and "Feck" while your at it? It's a serious question? Do they want to learn to play the pipes 'cause they love the sound of it. And I mean love. Not merely quite like. I mean head over heals just simply can't get enough of it monogamous for the rest of your life love. For only this level of adoration will get you through it. Or do they just like the image of it?
Secondly, here's another reason not to bother with the things:
"Personally i really do tend to go for the more closed stye as i think it is harder to master and therefore, there is a sense of gratification out of it."
"Gratification"? What a silly notion. Preferring one style over another because it's harder. You're perfectly welcome to prefer a more closed style if that's the sound you like, but any other reason completely misses the point of it all. It belies what a great many pipers feel, that they want to master the thing merely because it's hard. Such people are never really interested in music and they will never even grant themselves the mere pleasure of the music until at least that daft 21 years thing is up.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Advice on the pipes
Great post, Michael. I agree with you completely, especially the bit about "head over heels monogamous for the rest of your life love." That's totally the case.
I'm not debating open v. closed styles (which I said earlier is a pretty useless dichotomy) but saying I don't think there's a point to slagging NPU, which has done an amazing amount of good for pipers and piping.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
I probably misunderstood ... And, thinking about it, I shouldn't even have dared to venture into the pipers' lair. Way too dangerous beasts for a poor wee fl00ter.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Advice on the pipes
Stick around blend. The last thing you should allow those pesky pipers to do is sit around in their own exclusive club. They have enough trouble handling the real world as it is.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Advice on the pipes
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Advice on the pipes
Is it more like an exclusive club or an insane asylum?
Aughhhhhhhh!!!! Can't handle realityyyyyyyyy!!!!!
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Wishiwasirish
Go for it - even if you suck (and I suck like a vacuum dredger) the pipes get their hooks into you. - Welcome to the dark side.
David
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by BigDavy
Re: Advice on the pipes
i play the pipes, and tend to take a practice set out when i go to sessions, they take up less room, are quieter and a lot cheaper. every one on here is right. they take absolute dedication. they're not an instrument you can pick up and just play. on your own you might be able to knock a tune out of them, but you can be pretty sure that if you attempt to play with anyone else, you'll realise just how out of tune you are. i'd recommend getting a set and having a go. play along with some one on a box or concertina or something that holds its tune and might not be slightly out. a box is perfect. get used to playing then get your self in tune with the box player. good luck with it, and the only other advice i can give is dont go and spend a fortune. buy a cheap set, learn to play, then if you decide its not for you or you cant be bothered to put the time in then atleast you wont have lost too much money
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by FastEddie
Re: Advice on the pipes
If you buy a cheep set they'll never play in tune and you'll not only lose your money, you'll lose the will to live (which is fine, 'cause the people around you will want to kill you anyway).
If you buy an expensive set, you'll only have yourself to blame. Which is very important for pipers, who habitually blame their instruments. (plus, if you look after them, they'll always be worth what you paid for them)
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Advice on the pipes
I think you really want to play the pipes , Llig this is just a smoke screen for you true feelings
just scraping cat gut is no longer enough for you and you want to feel the infrasonics of that bass drone when you play.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
"Since i'm going to start saving up for a practice set of uilleann pipes I was wondering if they are a well accepted instrument. " Jerry.
Yes, if you learn to tune your chanter so that it's in tune with itself and other instruments, and if you learn to play a couple of tunes, and if your chanter isn't overbearingly loud there shouldn't be any problem.
I mean I wouldn't really like going into a session with them and all of a sudden everybody starts looking at me funny and hints at me to leave.
This would only happen if your pipes are out of tune, extremely loud, or if you try and play on tunes that you don't really know. Then again other factors such as bad hygiene, bad breath, badly tailored, ill-fitting, loud, cheap clothing, t-shirts claiming "I support the BNP" could also have the same effect
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
What's wrong with the Banjo and Nose Pickers?
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by gam
Re: Advice on the pipes
I love pipers. They make fiddlers seem so normal.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Advice on the pipes
Truth swfl and it always hurts maybe they just need frets
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
You don't think they fret enough with those reeds and whatnot? [groan]
It's a lot more work choking geese than skinning cats, that's for sure, I'll give them that.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Advice on the pipes
"I love pipers. They make fiddlers seem so normal."
Cheers, SWFL. I like having purpose to my life.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
HA! "Doctorate in Fiddler Normalization"
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Advice on the pipes
Been playin highland pipes for 40 years, don't want to start something new and go thru all the pain again. Much happier just listening to good players!
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Lone rover
Re: Advice on the pipes
Just want to add, Fiddles and flutes are ok for awhile, but a good UP player adds a lot to a session. Learn some nice airs first and then work on your jigs. reels will be a few years away.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Lone rover
Re: Advice on the pipes
I've always wished I could be Italian.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Advice on the pipes
I disagree. Airs are the HARDEST thing to play well on the pipes. Reels might sound more difficult at a superficial level because there are more notes flying past, but playing a slow air well requires a different, and much greater, level of mastery and understanding of the instrument. I play a couple airs but I don't have near enough of that kind of mastery to do it well. I won't play them at a session or anywhere vaguely public (unless I'm totally hammered... I hazily remember trying to play Aisling Gheal during the weekend shenanigans...ouch), but some day...
Listen to airs played by the likes of Ronan Browne and Finbar Furey. Amazing.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Airs are an awkward beast for a session anyway. By definaition (well pretty much) they are a solo affair. So you might as well announce, be off with the rest of you for the next 5 minutes while I do my party piece (am I on the right thread here?
).
Not that i dislike airs, you have to judge when the time is right to play them. It is a bit like a song at a tunes session (only more so), sometimes best to be asked to do one. Problem is mostly people will be able to pick up on the fact that someone might want to sing (a guitar is a good indicator). But how do you know that someone might want to play an air.
I can't focus on the screen I'm so tired, so if this makes even less sense than normal, apols.
- chris
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Advice on the pipes
Aye, the right time usually being towards the end of the night when your mate breaks out of the five string banjo and does drunk bluegrass.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
You say that as if drunk bluegrass were a bad thing.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
Haha. It was brilliant, as he's actually a great musician, but it was just that time of the night where we'd been playing (and drinking) since 3pm, it was nearly 11pm, and we were getting silly.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
8 hours?!?!! Ha! Lightweights!
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Advice on the pipes
Did you ever here about the three day long session where the musicians had to be put on IV drips and have catheters installed?
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Catheters?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bluudy l-UX-ury, mate! When I were a lad ... (in a previous life) ...
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Advice on the pipes
No, but that sounds like my poker-playing days.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
silver- you'll notice never once did I tar all NPU members with the same brush or pour scorn on the vast amount they have done for the tradition. I more than welcome my copy of An Piobaire through the door every month, like yourself probably. I suggested an underlying an recurring attitude that exists or has existed both at Tional, classes and amongst influential members. One story in particular where one of the best pipers in Belfast or in Ireland for that matter,who teaches open style, was told he would never make a piper, he now greatly surpasses the playing of that individual, across both styles. Its a big enough organisation and tradition not to be so much of a henrietta st personality cult as it once was. Its all irrelavant anyway because to exclude either style from your sphere of influence or playing is to lose out. The suggestion that someone prefers closed because its "harder" augments my point wonderfully. It comes down to what makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and can bring you out of the depths of despair in an instant. For me that is the playing of a select few. John Mc Sherry, Paddy Keenan and Davy Spillane.. Others I can appreciate and see the value in their playing but the hairs on the back of my neck is what im in this for. If you find my posts random and off point then why engage with them to the degree that you have, my only intention was to make a contrabution and foster an awarness of some of the issues surrounding the instrument and culture. all the best
..
On a seperate point .. wisiwasirish - John Mc Sherry = King of the Pipers
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
and whoever said airs and jigs are easier than reels is a ejit..
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
You may call me an ejit if you like, trucks, but for me on my lowly plectrum instrument, jigs are definately easier than reels, and as a result they sound better than my reels, but I'm working on it. As for pipes, I have absolutely no idea. I do try to play a bit of whistle and there I can see where playing airs and jigs may not be easier than reels, that's a completely different instrument. I'll admit to a lack of experience, however.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
also Silver you say now is not the time to be worrying about open or tight playing yet the start of the process is the CRITICAL time to make this decision as both approaches dictate a completely different setup as regards ornamention. And each approach lays a completely different foundation and platform from where everything else can develop..Its actually "harder" to incorporate tight techniques into open style tunes so the suggestion that tight playing as a style is harder seems a nonsense to me. Open / tight style as can be heard alot in Mc Sherrys playing (Keenans too, to a lesser extent, but sure enough when he wants to its there) is the holy grail as far as many are concerned. and you are right Silver I am entitled to my opinion. To change tack halfway through the learning process is a very confusing and frustrating endevour. My initial learning was off NPU tutorials and I found my self having to unlearn habits, notice i didnt say bad habits. Tight playing was not the route I wanted to follow as I wanted my Piping to be based on open style. The decision of what path to follow will save headache in the early stages of progression. Also to not have an idea of where you are going on a journey before you start seems like an ill fated action. Especially when there are many mediocre pipers out there...
Jimmy B I assumed u wer talking about pipes in which case your comment seemed arbitrary, I know for a fact I could never play a stringed instrument never mind reels jigs or anything else
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Trucks -
Yes, I got confused for a moment. I posted something about jigs being easier than reels in another thread about plectum instruments. Sometimes the threads run into each other in my mind. Apologies for the diversion.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
SilverSpear is wise Trucks. If Jerry is a complete newcomer to the pipes then he'll have enough on his plate learning to coordinate bellows and bag squeezing, and then trying to seal the holes on the chanter in order to get a decent clean tone free from squeaks.
On top of that there will be the first tune to struggle through and get up to speed. I wouldn't worry about open or close piping at this early stage unless you already have a definite idea of a piping style you want to emulate, or a live tutor who teaches a certain style of piping. John McSherry isn't the king of the pipers, that title is shared by Mick Coyne of Ennis and Michael Dunne of Limerick
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
Geeze, and at least half a dozen more!
Mick O'Brien, Jimmy O'Brien-Moran, Sean McKiernan, Ronan Browne, Peter Laban, Gay McKeon.... Ok, there's six, lots more that could easily be argued as the best.... Just depends on who you like more.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Nico
Re: Advice on the pipes
Ronan Browne aside, these pipers arnt in the same league as Mc Sherry. fact. Also I think wilkes is referring to an actual title
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
wilkes - what your sayin makes sense, I'm only givin my side of things and hope its of some use. Any conversation or debate on piping styles or cliques is fine with me. And I stand by what ive said.
As for King of the Pipers. I didnt know such a title existed. Wouldnt have called John King of da Pipers if I had known. Was more my opinion. So King of the Pipers is seperate from All Ireland Fleadh Cheoil titles or how does it work? Did Keenan or any other Pavee's ever hold the title? Have heard Mickey Dunne playing but never Mick Coyne.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
also if yer mans only squeezin notes out then sure enough fingering styles are further down the line but worth being aware of all the same. Start as you mean to continue
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Wow, that's probably the first time ever anyone has called me wise. Cheers, man!
Unless you've listened to lots and lots of pipers, you can't really make decisions regarding which style you want to focus on and even then, you might not make such decisions. I haven't -- I just work out the techniques of both and use them as I feel necessary. I'm sort of half decent at best, but I do what works and don't paint myself into boxes.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Yes favourite piper is a very subjective thing. Some of my personal favs.......
Barry Kerr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF--f7JxFPk&feature=related
Tiarnan Ó Duinnchinn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBT6gMz3THs
Mick O' Brien
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YwcqhGy5dw
Tommy Keane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WegKdGGMoA&feature=related
Paddy Keenan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGtpEG7gihc
and legend in the making Jarlath Henderson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXeqbgjVIIw
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bogman
Re: Advice on the pipes
I'm all for awareness. I agree with you there.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Point being, characterizing anyone as "king of the pipers" is daft. There are a good number of amazing players out there, all playing quite differently from one another but still doing great stuff.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Very true TSS, I think Niall Vallely, John McSherry and Mike McGoldrick are amazing pipers too but not cosidered by some maybe because they push the envelope. Liam O' Flynn is another not mentioned yet but needs no introduction.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bogman
Re: Advice on the pipes
You mean Cillian Vallely, I think.
Niall is his brother and is a hot sh*t concertina player. Now those guys are pushing the envelope. It's brilliant, some of the stuff they're doing.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Should mention too from the Scottish side, Fred Morrison and Simon MacKerrell. The have come from the Highland pipe side and developed a unique and powerful style on Uilleann pipes.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bogman
Re: Advice on the pipes
here are two of my favourite clips of Mc Sherry
doinna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KQTv8qvkE
Mc Sherry/ Fra Mc Ilduff Duelling chanters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is5DF8q25q0
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Yes, woops, Cillian of course. I love Niall's concertina playing too, and the bodach is pretty handy on the flute as well, to say the least.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bogman
Re: Advice on the pipes
Duelling Pipers at first light - jigs "Peter Byrne's Fancy" and 'The Maid at the Spinning Wheel'. two great tunes on the pipes have been wondering names for ages, forgot about this link , enjoy
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Ach aye, I'll second that. Don't think Simon has recorded much, but he's a wonderful player.
I'll add Jerry O'Sullivan, Flaithri Neff, and Ivan Goff to the list; all fantastic players.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Excellent stuff Trucks, particularly enjoyed the second clip.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bogman
Re: Advice on the pipes
nay bother, you beat me to the punch with Barry Kerr and Tiarnan Duinceann have to say they are both on a par with Mc Sherry but not quite ahh tis too close. Neff brothers!! I totally forgot about them! soundpost and bridle, cracker album, mad notes, i like that cape breton style of fiddle too
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Doinna live is mindblowing.Especially sitting beside the fella. Cant help being enveloped by this tune and have listened to it probably more than 100 times over the years. Hard to equate it to somthing human, almost super natural, wee folk at work?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I agree with you. Amazing the sounds he can get out of that thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj4NIzIYQgc&NR=1
Okay, no pipes in this clip, but I know how CO feels about slides.
I think you'll like the last one in the set especially.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
At the William Kennedy Festival last year I lost track of how many pipers I saw over the course of the weekend - too many!
Tiarnan was one that instantly jumped out as something special. His use of the regulators was head and shoulders above anything I have heard anyone else doing. Truly magical.
There is not much in the way of recordings of Simon playing the Uilleann Pipes although he did play them on some of the tracks on the first two Back of the Moon albums.
Here is a wee video from this year's Piping Live festival though, playing with Rough Tides:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISl_fagFJ_k
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Here's Mick Coyne:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CztjmKj1OM&feature=PlayList&p=07493C7C788925CF&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34
All the pipers mentioned in this thread are fine musicians and people have different tastes as regards styles of piping and favourite pipers, it's all cool.
Another fine piper is Billy McCormick from Antrim, now living in Co. Clare, a great bloke too, plays a Taylor set with an O'Briain chanter. Billy's playing here:
http://www.gnipc.org/tionol/tionol2003.html
the video clips can take a little while to load
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
I've heard McSherry do things on the pipes that should never be possible! HE is in a league of his own. I think that every piper, when they hear him playing, is frightened by him. They are aware of their limitations and, whether they admit it or not, know that this man doesn't have any.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
fact
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
He has even been known to walk on water, heal lepers and bring sight to the blind! At a wedding in Carryduff he even turned water into wine. He drank it all himself however and that kind of took the shine off that particular miracle!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
No cause for Alarm
You obviously have something personal against McSherry. Try harder not to let this cloud your objectivity!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
People talk about listening, Mick Coyne for example, i am blown away by that clip, true genius no one could dispute that. Others too and in that sense the Tradition is rich and its legacy insured. It is hard to play down any of these Pipers playing and style is certainly subjective. But. I have grown up around Pipes and Pipers my father is a piper and my mates are Pipers. Uilleann Piping takes up at least 70percent of my unconcious thought. I understand people are reluctant to say one piper is above them all but if you were only acutely aware of what it is that John Mc Sherry actually DOES on the pipes then you would see. Genius is what many of the Pipers mentioned in this thread have. John has somthing entirely different, somthing I suggest that has not been seen before and will not be repeated. He has invented a new type of Piping beyond style and setting. A force. No one can take away from the playing of the masters but John Mc Sherry is the master. I wish people who share this obcession could only be exposed to the full force of Johns Playing because it is then you would fall quiet in your comparisons.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
at least the man can have the crack and isnt up his own hole like a lot of you cliquey bstards
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Oh, please. Give me a break. Alistair doesn't have anything against McSherry. I thought his remark there was hilarious. I guess no wisecracks allowed in the very serious world of uilleann piping. Al doesn't play the pipes so he wasn't there for that day in class.
I have heard McSherry play live on several occasions. The man is impressive, amazing. He's one of my favourite players -- yes, one of. I'm still not going to rate one piper -- McSherry or anyone else -- above all the other amazing pipers out there. Everyone has such a different style, is exploring the instrument in their own way, that half the time you're comparing apples to oranges.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
I agree with Trucks.
Every piper that has heard McSherry play, I have no doubt, knows that s/he is in his shadow. Unfortunately we are only human and jealousy can rear its ugly head when we encounter a musician with this much immeasurable talent. I don't think personal taste comes into acknowledging this man's genius. Brian Finnegan's not my favourite flute player but I recognise that the man's a bloody great flutist!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Thesilverspear
Seems that a lot of musicians like to make"hilarious" wisecracks concerning McSherry and alcohol - when they have no more comebacks.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
I don't get where people are coming up with the "jealousy" thesis. Is that why we are being reluctant to agree that John McSherry is unquestionably the "best" piper out there. For f*ck's sake, I'm in *everyone's* shadow, but my point is that I think there are players, i.e. Jarlath and Tiarnan, who are pushing the boundaries and doing some pretty amazing stuff as well. It's all a subjective, qualitative thing anyway -- no way to objectively determine who is the best player. I hope to hell it's just the plebes like us who are having this conversation and the guys we're talking about are too gentlemanly and humble to touch this one with a barge pole.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Jarlath and Tiarnan-gret pipers. Pushing the boundaries? mmm -t
(dare I mention his name again) McSherry is the one who has pushed the boundaries. They are, among so many others,followers!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Yes, but No Cause isn't "a lot of musicians." I know him in real life and he really was just being funny -- not groping for jokes about McSherry and alcohol because he had no more comebacks, or even weirder, had any jealousy thing going on. He is someone with an amazing amount of appreciation for brilliant playing. But he also won't pass up the opportunity for a wiseass comment, and given the sort of worshipping posts that appeared on this thread, the door was wide open for that.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Thesilverspear
Can you compare a porsche with a volkswagon?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
I think that of what you can measure objectively: technique, depth of imagination, quantity of articulation's he's created and made available to himself, the sheer amount of things he pulls off with ease that no other piper can do, consistency of imagination etc., I don't think you can doubt that John Mcsherry is head and shoulders above the rest.
Aside from that, however, I still prefer Finbar (when he's on form)
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Advice on the pipes
i didnt found the comment funny. I found it derogatory and and inappropriate. I you had made it in my company I would have pulled you for it as would others.
John can transpose and emulate ANYTHING hes hears or wants to do no exception. Meaning he can can take genius of other Pipers and turn it up a notch. A good example is the way he totally modified his playing for the recent Bothy Band tribute, beyond versatile. I agree that any piper that plays with him is in in shadow , I feel that Silver is subconciously tipping the cap to other great Pipers not wanting to compromise his own creditbility. Calculated comments without any real heart. I think you are willfully decieving yourself. As I said there is room for a plethora of genius on the pipes, that coyne clip was a good example and all the others, mindblowing. But they all faal short of what John does and anyone who really knows their stuff would not argue.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
To be honest, every good traditional musician has an element to being a "follower" about them. That's part of it, isn't it? Building upon the blocks of the people who came before you and finding your own voice and, if you are exceptionally brilliant, making your own innovations, but innovations based on the tradition. Find that thread Llig Leacim posted months ago titled "Standing on the shoulders of giants." He describes what I am talking about better than I am right now. Those guys have found their own style, which may have elements of what McSherry does (I don't know... I've never chatted to them in great detail about their influences) but they are definitely charting their own musical courses. I wouldn't think of them as just "followers."
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Thesilverspear
I don't deal "worshipping" cards. Just fact!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
I have got absolutely nothing against John McSherry at all. I was making a joke. On the few occasions I have met him he has come across as a great guy and great fun to be around. I even have him to thank for the free copy of Tripswitch I have.
I am sorry if you took offence at my comments. The man is a tremendous musician and possibly the greatest. I will leave that to others to decide. But the level of hero worship on here is getting uncomfortable.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
And thank you Emily for the nice words.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
also Jarlaths piping is not fully formed. Brillant yes but until his style settles and he becomes less of a pre madonna I does think anyone can take a real measure of what he can do yet. As for John being fair game for the wise cracks, yeah thats grand when theres no malicious or slanderous intent. As for this being a worshipping post, my life is a better place for the playing of Mc Sherry. So why not wear your heart on your sleeve in this instance. At least its honest.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Thesilverspear
Every trad. musician is attempting to chart their own musical career and yes, these pipers have taken on elements of McSherry's innovations. But they are the same generation as McSherry and are influenced by him (a musician of their own generation, unusual in trad .) None of McSherry's piping generation have influenced his playing. He is influencing his own generation and those generations after him. Some achievement eh?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
I agree with Trucks. There a kind of fashionable stand off thing where it's kind of uncool to wax lyrical about people's playing. You're supposed to just shrug it off and keep your adoration to your self. Ballocks to that.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Advice on the pipes
Hero worship suggests and unbalanced level of adoration or praise. In this case that is anything but. If anything the other Pipers mentioned on this thread are heroes too. Thats the whole point! but then you get one that just goes beyond. Anything that has. Im a fighting man, I love my music and I love my Boxing. But I know for a fact heroes take all shapes and forms, just as Martin Rogan is a personal hero of mine , doest make him less so because he was defeated, same with Hatton the list goes on. But then there is that rare fighter than makes your hair stand on end. For many, Ali was the greatest. For many John Mc Sherry is the greatest
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
i view silver spears comments as inhibited and I wish him all the best in his playing but more in his listening
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
TheSilverSpear is female and I can assure you that she spends all the time she possibly can listening to this music, and pipers in particular - both the modern talents of McSherry, Henderson, etc and the old guys with the scratchy out of tune recordings that you are apparently good for your soul.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Personally I would enjoy listening to any piper that can play a nice tune - and that includes Silver Spear, who has a nice touch on her chanter.
This storm in a tea cup is irrelevant - there is no objective measure by which you can identify "best" only your subjective favourite(s) ( Ronan Browne, Liam O'Flynn and Fred Morrison in my case).
David
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by BigDavy
Re: Advice on the pipes
Inhibited as equals she doesn't agree with you Trucks? Hope you don't live in a glass house then.
I have known her for years and know that she is a hard working over self critical player with a wide range of Musical influences.
Music isn't about fighting it's about cooroperative effort.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
listening and hearing are two seperate things. Gender aside its clear that silver is passionate about the Pipes. I dont know if you have an acedemic background in music but what I would suggest in endemic with people studying music, Trad in particular is a tendancy to be over subjective, anylytical and therfore inhibited in assigning credibiltiy. Like the law of averages you see catagories where they do not exist any quantify accordingly. Although your opinions and indeed knowledge may cover a broads swathe of what is indeed, fact. At worst you are reluctant and from what I can observe, inhibited in what you are prepared to consider, possibly even misguided in being so subjective. At best you try and quantify somthing that cannot be quantified.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Bigdavy
I' m sure SilverSpear is a very nice player. Personally I like and appreciate a lot of pipers' playing - but I do recognise genius when I hear it! Like him or not, McSherry should be given his proper place.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
is endemic*
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
the comparison between Music and Boxing was centred on innate ability and talent. I dont think that music is about coorporative effort in this sense, although a pleasing by product.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
"Like him or not, McSherry should be given his proper place."
Who on this thread expressed any dislike for John McSherry? I cracked a joke. It was you who brought up the idea of a problem with alcohol and it was you who has suggested there might be something not to like about the man. As I said, I found him to be a nice guy and an exceptional musician.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Nocauseforalarm
Your so-called "wisecrack" inferred a problem with alcohol.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Nocauseforalarm
And I can assure you I have not suggested in any way shape or form that there is nothing to like about McSherry!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
dont worry yourself, there is No cause for alarm in this sense, its clear that no one was slagging the man himself. This idea of a problem with alcohol is a load of sh1te anyway. The mans a rocket with a few drinks granted, so are a lot of people. I would rather drink my fill than Fart musli
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Did it? I thought I was just making a crack about the Jesus worship. And even as a tee-totaller I can see a difference between liking a drink and having a problem. I don't know John anywhere near enough to make any kind of assessment on his drinking habits and even if I did I would hope I would have more taste than to raise it on a public forum.
I greatly admire John McSherry's musical ability and have most, if not all of the cds that he has released. I apologise for cracking my joke as this conversation seems to have descended somewhat and is a little too personal for my liking. Honestly no offence was intended.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Sorry Trucks but I beg to differ every one is entitled to their opinion . Just because after careful thought they may not agree with you does not make them inhibited.
I think boxing is barbaric what does that make me?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
You're so funny No cause that I'm laughing my balls off!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
bazukidave
you've obviously missed his point!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
"this conversation seems to have descended somewhat and is a little too personal for my liking. Honestly no offence was intended".
Granted, and I think you can calm yourself.
..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I fail to see what makes John McSherry so special as a uilleann piper? He is indeed a very good piper, has lots of technical ability, and is musical, probably a good tutor, a good professional musician, and I'm sure he's a nice bloke too. But so are many other uilleann pipers. I've listened to a few video clips on youtube and he certainly doesn't grab my attention in the way that Mick Coyne, Mick O'Brien, Billy McCormick, Mickey Dunne and others do. The Doina video clip is nothing to write home about, Davy Spillane has done that sort of music with the synthesizer in the background years ago. It's a bit pointless this "My dad is bigger than your mum" stuff innit.
I can respect that you really admire McSherry and his style of piping and that's fair enough, we all have different tastes though. I'd rather listen to Pat Mitchell for example. SilverSpear is a good piper, getting better all the time by the way
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
Dave, you did miss my point. I accept if you dont like Boxing, I just thought it was a helpful comparsion in term of innate ability. But if you are not a fan then you may fail to see the merit in that. Fighting and music come from the same place in your stomach belive it or not. Mabye you are too evolved and civilised and more power to ya.
My point about the way in which an academic approach to trad can negate its true nature was obviously lost on you. I also get the impression you are looking yer hole, albeit in a civiled and "non barbaric " way.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Steamwilkes
Don't listen to him on Youtube. Go and listen to his records! Or if you're lucky enough to hear him at a session, go listen to him there. McSherry is a natural - passionate, wild, a technical master, an innovator and oozing emotion. He can't read music and plays completely by ear and from the heart. What's not to admire! And I would say anyone who is not blown away by Doinna must be tone deaf.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Evolved?! He is from Newcastle. There has been no evolution there for a very long time.
Perhaps he doesn't like boxing because he is just a woos.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Wilkes, My view of Mc Sherry is irrelevant. Your voice of moderation seems like a cop out. Your prodige's argument seems seated in musical arithmatic to an extent, so I feel my overall point has not been taken. Just beacause there is a wealth of genius does not mean one cannot surpasss the rest..Coyne is certainly a genuis and virtuoso layer, the Doinna clip was un synth d so I dont know where u got that from. If people are ignorant to the nature of Johns Playing im not worried. You obviously think you have enough musical credentials to be blase about him.
I have expressed in terms as best I can how some interpret his playing and have been honest about the significance it holds for me and indeed my family. There is certainly a wealth of Piping to find fulfilment in and enough genius Pipers like Coyne or Duinceann who could sustain anyones interest, talent and development for a lifetime. Adversion to Mc Sherrys mythical status is typical of trad nerds who are not prepared to go feet first . I find many posts lacking in passion. So if I fail to recognise someone as having not given due consideration or or being inhibited by academic attitudes. Mc Sherrys playing is not the only path to enlightenment, what it cant be is quantified. In doing you show yourself to be arrogant.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
so apologies** if I fail to recognise someone as having not given due consideration or or being inhibited by academic attitudes. Mc Sherrys playing is not the only path to enlightenment, what it cant be is quantified. In doing you show yourself to be arrogant.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Why does perfection need to evolve?
There is no evolutionary pressure
Woos's have only a short life span round here.
I believe music comes from the heart , stomach is for food.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
wrong. when the heart gives in the stomach takes over..
be it playing no matter what else is going on or getting a last dig in even though its hopeless. Neither pursuits are based in logic. and are a measure.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
"when the heart gives in the stomach takes over"
That sounds like a justification for eating your exes!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Nocause
Now THAT was funny!!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Can I ask, Wilkes,are you a piper?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
i wouldnt need much justification for that sort of thing! ha
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
i concur it would be interesting to note Wilkes's musical background. His credentials are evident in his tone
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
you can take the heart out the body and it still beats take the stomach out and you have tripe.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
heres a link that was overlooked earlier.. wont pass comment on it heaven forbid
Vallely Brothers and Guests. Features Tiarnan O Duinnchinn on uilleann pipes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwIMtdC7Ho
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
and another possibly my favourite clip on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRXe_HFvQ0g
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Nice post. Sounds so much like.....you know who!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
singing stream, dark haired lass, dan breens
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Aye, I do my best to produce a hive of honeyed sounds from an instrument I acquired in the late 1900's, from the tiny back garden workshop of a Mr. Dave Williams R.I.P. of Newark, Notts.
In the Doiina clip Mr. McSherry has the synthesizer on his left with a bloke standing with a (Martin?) guitar on his right, how can you not hear the synth Sligech?. Nowt wrong with this video clip if this is what you're into, certainly not my cup of tea though, Boring and tedious, Next!!!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
Sorry Sligech this is the clip I watched
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KQTv8qvkE
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
spectacular FAIL from wilkes to deal effectivley with comments directed at himher.. synth or not, Spillane couldnt even replicate or pull that off. there were sounds out of that chanter that no one knew existed and whether its your cup of tea or not its the height of arrogance not to give credit where credit is due. I think you have Pipers evny grey balls.
here is a group to watch out for
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ntrhh/b00ntrbk/Blas_Ceoil_Series_3_Episode_4/
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Wilkes, it was not I who mentioned the synth. Anyway the pipes are so amazing that a synth being played or not is irrelevant.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Love to hear you playing pipes Wilkes!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
I wasn't aware that Steamwilkes did not give credit where it was due. On the contrary he was very complimentary about McSherry's piping and respectful of your feelings on the matter. He just commented that, in his opinion, he was not that taken by the Doinna clip.
I personally like his playing of it and saw him play it live at last year's William Kennedy Festival more than once. I would agree he does a very good job of it. I would however like to hear him do a different slow air from time to time. He is so good at that one I would love to hear more.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
I have heard Steamwilkes play the pipes and he is a great player and has a lovely set of pipes.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Come to think of it I would love to hear you playing the pipes Sligeach!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Why are so many pipers envious of McSherry ?( actually I can hear why, you don't need to answer that).
Why, as Trucks says, are they too arrogant to give credit where credit's due?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
My pont is that what i think is irrelavant. The music speaks for itslef. If we are drawn on subjects and enjoy a bit of banter fair enuf.. i like tunes.. anyone else?
and this is a better link that that blas cheoil which doesnt even stream properly.. http://www.myspace.com/pigeontopmusic
n joy...
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
And why, NoCause, would you love to hear me playing pipes??
It's quite obvious that Wilkes is a piper, and he did tell us he was.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
on second thoughts I think I prefer Seamus Ennis anyway
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Sounds good!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
"I fail to see what makes John McSherry so special as a uilleann piper? He is indeed a very good piper, has lots of technical ability, and is musical, probably a good tutor, a good professional musician, and I'm sure he's a nice bloke too. But so are many other uilleann pipers."steamwilkes
Admittedly you "fail" to see how special Mc Sherry is blah blah blah, you just cant call a spade a spade for fear of digging..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
"He is indeed a very good piper, has lots of technical ability, and is musical, probably a good tutor, a good professional musician, and I'm sure he's a nice bloke too."
Ouch!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Advice on the pipes
Because you say that SW must be jealous of John McSherry and that he therefore is probably not a very good musician. To me it seems that you want to hear him to validate that opinion. I would argue that even if he was the worst piper in the World he would still be entitled to his opinions as to who he particularly liked. And my justification for that is that I think that you and I are also entitled to our opinions despite being 'lowly' guitarists.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
aye Pigeon Top are class, Shane Mc Aleer from Dervish and Darragh Murphy is another great Piper.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Just reminded me of the CD that John would have got Doinna from - Gwerz Live. Listening to it now - class.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Advice on the pipes
I'm lovin' the amount of amateur psychoanalysis happening on this thread. That's a time honoured method of not making an argument: accusing the people who disagree with you of having subconscious motivations and thoughts which they don't know about (obviously -- they're subconscious) but conveniently invalidate their arguments. Classy. As is asserting that people who disagree with you aren't enlightened enough to know what they're talking about. Are you really saying that your understanding and appreciation of piping is so amazing, your ear so good, your sense of the music so completely and fundamentally perceptive, that anyone who dares to disagree with you either doesn't have a clue or is "inhibited." Wow, dude. That's arrogance.
All I'm saying is that while McSherry is a phenomenal, innovative, and brilliant piper, he is not the only guy on the planet who has achieved that kind of mastery of the instrument. I'm not going to accept the contention that he is and attacking my judgment and perception isn't going to convince me otherwise.
And cheers, Ali, Dave, and Wilkes for the kind words.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
nocause if you think jealousy is the crux of this debate then you display superficial insight..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
On a totally different note, the OP has probably been totally put off the uilleann pipes upon seeing what a raving bunch of mad, contentious, opinionated loonies pipers are.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
Are you really saying that your understanding and appreciation of piping is so amazing, your ear so good, your sense of the music so completely and fundamentally perceptive, that anyone who dares to disagree with you either doesn't have a clue or is "inhibited."
..yes
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I don' need to hear him in order to validate my opinion. And whatever way he plays the pipes, I don't need to hear him to ascertain that he's not even at the same ball game as McSherry.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
At least we got that cleared up. I bow in acknowledgment to your completely superior and unfailingly brilliant insight and absolute
infallibility.
I'm glad we don't elect politicians who think that way.... Oh, wait....
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
McSherry IS a phenomenon Silver - you are right.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
No probs Silver. Always glad to be of assistance.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Aye.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
I asserted that in my view you had a academic approach in presenting your views on the pipes, I speculated that that may affect your interpretation.
"I would suggest in endemic with people studying music, Trad in particular is a tendancy to be over subjective, anylytical and therfore inhibited in assigning credibiltiy. Like the law of averages you see catagories where they do not exist any quantify accordingly. Although your opinions and indeed knowledge may cover a broads swathe of what is indeed, fact. At worst you are reluctant and from what I can observe, inhibited in what you are prepared to consider, possibly even misguided in being so subjective. At best you try and quantify somthing that cannot be quantified."
.. notice I used the word observe, at no stage did I present this as a difinitive "mock up" of your influcences or "psyche"!!!!!come on!. Speculatory possibly but not arrogant. Arrogance is the trait that inhibits or "prevents" people under such influence to consider for a second that someone else might be right to the detrement of their musical universe. In this case i aknowledged the weath of genuis at hand and even submitted that following Mc Sherrys playing was not the only path to enlightenment.
and ,if you "dare" to disagree at least do it with passion for your subject matter, instead of passing referrals.. At no stage did anyone adverse to my take on things present another Piper on equal terms. That would have been better than simply resigning yourselves to "theres alot of good Pipers isnt there".
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Actually Silver, he is the only guy who has acheived that kind of mastery of the instrument. Hands down.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
and quantify accordingly**
see not infallible
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Trucks -- when you box, do you land a few punches on the referee for good measure? Does your corner man take a few hits when getting you back on your stool? Just asking.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Advice on the pipes
"while McSherry is a phenomenal, innovative, and brilliant piper, he is not the only guy on the planet who has achieved that kind of mastery of the instrument. I'm not going to accept the contention that he is and attacking my judgment and perception isn't going to convince me otherwise."silver ..
You hint at my intransigent attitudes!, yet if questioning ones judgment and perception does not occur when challanged or as you put it "attacked" then surley you are the uncomprmising one.
You talk of mastery of the instrument but thats only half of it, Its his take on the tunes, intuitive and without equal. Im totally serious. I submit that his technical mastery is probably on a par with others, his musical mastery and improvisation is beyond what anyone has tapped into.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
"I don' need to hear him in order to validate my opinion."
Then why do you want to hear him play?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Quigs.. I dont know where u saw the ref in this bout? Sorry if you didnt like the course of the debate..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Still waiting to hear why you would love to hear me playing pipes NoCause, when you know I'm a guitarist.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
note to the OP ~ find a session with people playing tunes. Playing tunes is much more satisfying than measuring each players' ability.
everyone else ~ carry on!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Advice on the pipes
http://www.myspace.com/pigeontopmusic
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I want to hear you play as I think that if you are going to criticise someone else's right to express an opinion based on their ability to play (even when you have not heard them) then you should be expected to be held to the same standard.
Put up or shut up!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
"Im a fighting man, I love my music and I love my Boxing."
November 18th 2009 by Trucks_Mulligan
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Advice on the pipes
BTW Mulligan - nice music on that link
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
and what? "Hero worship suggests and unbalanced level of adoration or praise. In this case that is anything but. If anything the other Pipers mentioned on this thread are heroes too. Thats the whole point! but then you get one that just goes beyond. Anything that has. Im a fighting man, I love my music and I love my Boxing. But I know for a fact heroes take all shapes and forms, just as Martin Rogan is a personal hero of mine , doest make him less so because he was defeated, same with Hatton the list goes on. But then there is that rare fighter than makes your hair stand on end. For many, Ali was the greatest. For many John Mc Sherry is the greatest"
just so we have that wee addage of yours in context. wouldnt want to misrepresent what I said now would ye?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
No refs, persay. Do you find that anything that doesn't have it's guard up, makes too tempting a target? Anyway, all this talk about piping and kingship ignores the real question: who is the evil archduke of the pipers?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Advice on the pipes
And where, prey tell, have I criticised someone else's Right to express an opinion. You seem somewhat confused between two things here: disagreeing with someone's opinion about something; and denying someone's right to express that opinion.' the latter of which I have not done. You, on the other hand are starting to express quite an aggressive attitude to my opinions. Calm down, mate.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
note to OP.. often when you cut people down in a conversation they then misrepresent what you said to their own end..
note to OP 2 If you want to be mediocre stay within a clique, be good enough for sessions but not for performance and dont whatever you do seek out and measure the greatness of musicians
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Now that would be a title worth having. I vote for Fred!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
I think I know "The Evil Archduke of Pipers". Someone else is going to have to start it though, I don't remember the first few notes.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Advice on the pipes
quigley-- Your insight is unerving. Having had the head punched off my more times than I care to remember, i take what I can get.. the Boxing metaphor was used to justify and define hero worship when hinted that "hero worship" was to the exclusion of others. I cant see where this thread is going now and as for Evil arch duke of Piping..?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Evil Arch Duke of Piping = Seamus "grey balls" Ennis
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I am perfectly calm. I am just annoyed by petty attempts to undermine decent people on here. Calling for an example of SW's playing was just one example. Labelling any suggestion that McSherry is not the best as jealousy is another. Truck's labelling of Emily as inhibited is a third. You are some double team you two.
I am not confused at all about the difference between disagreeing with someone's opinion and denying their right to express an opinion. The both of you have been quite clear about the validity of anyone else's opinions.
Anyway you asked for an example of Steamwilkes' playing so I am, again, asking for an example of yours. As you don't play the pipes I would be happy to take an example of your guitar playing. Beforehand I was not bothered. Now I am genuinely curious.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Emily? Who's Emily?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Sorry - TheSilverSpear
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
No Cause to the rescue!! I suspect someone is looking their HOLE (sexy fun time) come session time.. but sure why not !!
"il protect you from those beastly John Mc Sherry fans on the internet"
O no cause, I felt so inhibited but now your here....
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I certainly did not ask for an example of his playing. And as I have already stated, I don't need to hear him in order to assert McSherry's supperiority when it comes to playing them.
YOU accused me of denying others the RIGHT to express an opinion. Not True. They have expressed their opinions and I disagree strongly with them and make no apology for that.
And as for you asking for an example of my work and "happy to take an example" of my playing....I am amused.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
and I didnt label silver, as we established ..Bit slow? the fact that you think I did makes me think I was close to the mark. In which case you are the one making a very presumptuos Psychoanaylsis. tisk ..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
This is a fascinating thread. In some ways I feel like I've learned some things about pipers (some good and some bad), and then again I feel totally confused. I highly respect piping and wish I had the inclination for it. Alas, stinged instruments are ingrained so indelibly into my body and mind, as I am discovering through my struggles with the whistle. I have a perception of pipers, some of which has been influenced by this thread, and some of which leans to the negative. These are perceptions, so I am fully aware I may need some education in this area.
Some of the terms that come to mind in those negative perceptions are "opinionated," "cliquish," "arrogant," "snobby," and a bit "argumentative." My amateur opinion tells me that, although such terms cast a negative light, they have a bit of understandability. Anyone who invests the expense and dedication that such an instrument requires, and achieves any level of proficiency, deserves to be a little arrogant and opinionated. There, I said it.
Perhaps those negative perceptions are unfair, I don't know, but there they are. Seriously, though, are any of my perceptions warranted? Or are they completely misguided? Somewhere in the middle?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
How well do you know Mr McSherry , Trucks?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
Re: Advice on the pipes
Love to hear you playing pipes Wilkes!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Not asking for an example of his work.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Still waiting for you to tell me why you wanted to hear me, knowing I'm a guitarist.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
all so serious! heres somthing to lighten the load. dont know if the last guy is No cause for alarm.. hes certainly hokin for somthing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS395S2mcOM
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
"Actually Silver, he is the only guy who has acheived that kind of mastery of the instrument. Hands down." Sligeach.
hmm... a case of the emporer's new clothes perchance?
Look Trucks & Sligeach it's alright if you believe that Mr. McSherry is the best uilleann piper in the universe. You just have to accept the fact that not everybody agrees and try somehow to continue with your lives. Let's agree to disagree. I hope Mr. McSherry isn't reading this thread, he could assume we're a bit mental.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
Re: Advice on the pipes
i view silver spears comments as inhibited and I wish him all the best in his playing but more in his listening
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Trucks_Mulligan
******
Re: Advice on the pipes
Can I ask, Wilkes,are you a piper?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
i concur it would be interesting to note Wilkes's musical background. His credentials are evident in his tone
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Trucks_Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Love to hear you playing pipes Wilkes!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
I'm wondering if Steamwilkes, Emily (sorry, HiHo Silver) and NoCause aren't all one and the same person.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Dave.. Better than I know you. Which presents the question, why do you care
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
And so the character assassination continues! Thanks Truck.
Sligeach - I have already told you many times why I want to hear your playing. You have not explained once why you want to hear Steamwilkes. I can only assume your reticence is out of embarrassment. If it is that is fine. Just come out and say it and I will drop the matter.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
NoCause
Try building a bridge.. in otherwards.. get over it. Move on big lad.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Well that is an interesting point Sligeach. The three of us have all been on here for a long time and have all been posting fairly regularly. You on the other hand just showed up out of nowhere and proceeded to glue yourself to the opinions of Trucks.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
all those NC quotes are free for anyone to see if you just scroll up a wee bit .. Im thinking No Cause is ina meltdown since it was suggested he hokes bins and is lookin his hole.. Careful now No Cause you wouldnt want to drop any more of those straws.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
true.. i was already suspicious of dave but now im looking at slig and his pot of glue..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Big lad? Get over it? Do you mean get over your inability to answer a simple question or stand by what you have said on this forum. I don't think I will "get over it". I am witnessing two childish bullies run roughshod over everyone else and you need standing up to. If you are not big enough yourself to answer your critics then toddle off.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Jimmy B:
Some of the terms that come to mind in those negative perceptions are "opinionated," "cliquish," "arrogant," "snobby," and a bit "argumentative."
What? No 'batsh!te crazy'?
I'm assuming you're just winding up the pipers so I'll just chuckle at your post instead of trying to answer it for you.
...not that I'd answer it seriously anyway, I'd just end up contributing more nonsense. It'd be fun nonsense, I'm sure, but...
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Advice on the pipes
And have you both been sniffing of that glue?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
SWFL - Seriously, it's not a windup. I am genuinely intrigued by this thread and admit to a lack of experience here. They are perceptions, and as long as one admits to it and has a healthy level of humility attached, nobody can fault me for it.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
In case you hadn't noticed, my interest in hearing Wilkes play was not real or genuine., sorry!!!!!!!! Anyway if he was any good, we would be discussing His playing on this site. But I'm certain everybody would be grateful for you to "drop the matter" as you are starting to get tedious.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
Oh no my secret is out .....
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
no cause - you say you are witnessing two childish bullies..
even since the "No Cause to the rescue moment" the quest for your hole and the footage of you hoking bins , are you sure you are just not witnessing getting stroked .. ? a cracker
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I am getting tedious? You have been here for 5 minutes and you have had nothing good to say to date. You are a little child that has toddled into the grown up's argument. Go away.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
"are you sure you are just not witnessing getting stroked .. ?"
I am sorry Trucks - could you possibly translate that into English?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
My opinions are my own.
Don't know Trucks. You three on the other hand seem to know eachother quite well.
You are the bully NoCause. Initially you tried to make yourself out as a bit of a misunderstood joker, but you are obviously quite rattled by mine and others opinions here - now you're just being nasty!! If you have nothing valid to say maybe you should say nothing more.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by sligeach
Re: Advice on the pipes
I like the suggestion that Ali, Steamwilkes, and I are the same person.
I'd also go with surly and opinionated to boot. But mostly stark raving mad.
Anyway, thinking McSherry (who if he is reading this, is probably laughing so hard he's crying) is the greatest piper, ever, is fine and good. But it's arguing your point via ad hominem attacks which annoys me. You can surely put together a better case than merely asserting that everyone who disagrees with doesn't have a clue (and is all the same person without a clue, which is pretty funny).
Anyway, I did reference a couple pipers who I thought were on par with McSherry. Maybe you disagree, maybe they don't make your hair stand on end the way McSherry does, and that's fine, but at least acknowledge that it's your opinion rather than objective fact. There's a difference, surprisingly.
Jimmy,
Go with SWFL's assessment that pipers, for the most part, are batsh*t crazy.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
..mortified for you, no cause .. you lost the bap
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
HA! Love you guys, y'all crack me up. I wish we were all in a big room together so Jimmy and I could play tunes while we waited for you guys and gals to finish fixing your reeds.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Advice on the pipes
Yes, we are your typical Brummie Yankie Scot with a penchant for Swedish things.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Ok so who is going to pay for a translator For Trucks ?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
"..mortified for you, no cause .. you lost the bap"
Huh?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
wow silver you got two different people mixed up. I never accused you of being multiple people. This thread is getting exaustive. In addition I wasn't asserting you lack of "a clue" infact If anyone took you seriously in this thread it was me..Just cause I poked you a bit to see what happened doesnt mean I wasnt aware of the fact you know what you are talking about and that is obvious. a
nd you are probably right, as a case study it would be pretty extensive. If not inconclusive and yeah if John read this he would probably laugh, not least at the extent that this NO Cause fella in being stroked. There are those who will read this who know me and know im only messin unlike yer fella who is definately hokin for a quick sqeeze. good luck ..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Oh dear!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Initially you tried to make yourself out as a bit of a misunderstood joker, but you are obviously quite rattled by mine and others opinions here - now you're just being nasty!!
No cause right enough mate.. you are playing the victim yet you are the one who made jokes at others expense at the very start. only to back down when you realised people didnt appreciate it. If you complain of rough treatment at least it isnt behind your back , or quickly retracted once you test the waters. You wrer given the benifit of the doubt yet it seems you have double standards. You have no call to be precious -you are as fair game as anyone else who contributes.. which you are entitled to do.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
"Go with SWFL's assessment that pipers, for the most part, are batsh*t crazy. I'd also go with surly and opinionated to boot. But mostly stark raving mad." SilverSpear.
I can agree to that. I'm also a vegetarian and a biker
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
I've not played victim once, I wasn't testing any waters and I don't have double standards. I did not back down. I apologised for any misunderstanding. There is a difference.
I am not rattled by anyone's opinions on here. You are perfectly entitled to think that John is the best piper around and I have not even disagreed with you on that. What I have objected to is the needless attacks that the two of you have made on other people on here, the snide comments and the belittling.
You said yourself that there are those who read this thread who know you and will know you are only messing. There are many who do not know you however and after having read this will have no desire to know you. Likewise there will be plenty of people reading this thread, both those that have commented and those that just lurk, who know me well and know I am not the type of person that you have painted me out to be.
It is a shame that what started out as a simple question from someone new to the board has descended into a very bitter thread. I can probably take my share of the blame for that for encouraging some of the nonsense we have seen but really some of the comments here are really inexcusable.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
Well said Al
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
Just because NC haS no proper combacks doesnt mean he can paint everyone else as the bad guy . enough. you take yourself very seriously pal..
this is obviously not fun for you so I would suggest u clear off and find someone else you like to talk to or a a discussion you feel conforms your delicate framework of what is acceptable. and you know what. If you had accepted a bit of slagging and fired a bit back yud be grand and I wouldnt think u wer a twit
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Shall we leave the children to play now Al ?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Advice on the pipes
I dont test the water to see if people like my joke so maybe I didnt get a fair chance to back out of what ive said. unlike you..If theres anything you want me to directly apologise for speak up. or is it the other fella that wronged ye. or is it just not findin anything in those bins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c7sM9APQ
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I think it's important to realize and admit here that musicians, on the whole, are a childlike lot. And, like children, there are going to be skinned knees and bruised cheeks on the playground from time to time. Let's be like those schoolchildren, shall we, and stand up, brush ourselves off, and keep playing.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
Why should this site descend into slagging? Why can it not just be a place for helpful advice, at least in threads like this one. I am happy for a bit of banter but that is not what this is. This has been a difficult thread to keep track of due to all the cross-posting and the banality of some of the comments.
If you think I am a twit that is entirely your own prerogative. I have got enough friends that I don't really care about a sh*t-stirrer like you.
You seem to be under the impression that I am somehow upset or emotional because of this thread. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am amazed at the brass neck you have displayed. That is true but I am more than willing to argue the toss until the cows come home. I will admit however that your recent posts have left me a little weary. If the sort of personal comments you have made about people you do not know are what you consider banter then I am very glad I don't get to experience your banter face to face.
I do not think I have said anything on this thread that I would not be happy to say to someone's face. I do not hide behind an anonymous username for example. It just takes one click to find out exactly who I am. I like to think I am, by and large, a helpful person on this site who offers genuine advice when I can and would hope for the same in return. There are comments I have made and threads I have started in the past that, on reflection, I would not do but that is life.
I can have a laugh and a joke but we clearly have different senses of humour and I am less keen on "abusive humour" than you appear to be. Cest la vie!
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Advice on the pipes
As I said I have not backed down from anything I have said. I don't care if you apologise to me or not. I really don't. But since you ask I do think you owe Steamwilkes and TheSilverSpear an apology for the total lack of respect shown to them. As I doon't imagine that is coming however we should probably just draw a line in the sand and move on.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Earnest Goodguy Mc Simple soul
ok fella.. how many one liners did u steal from my ma ?.. ""argue the toss" .. "until the cows come home".. "brass neck" .. has the doctor been perscribing you valium and xxl fanny pads recently ?
You hide behind what would seem a reasonable commentary but what amounts to a "cop out" and self rightous tantrum cuz u got slagged. Failure to lauch any decent slaggings made you defensive has created the perception that there are people against you. Instead of having the crack you got wound up.The fact you display your real name on this thing shows me that you use this site in fulfilling some need for social affirmation, and reassurance, it also implys that you think people give a sh1t who you are,
telling me" i have plenty of freinds" in the context of our brief exchange re-inforces this and makes me feel a bit bad for you. However , Your victimhood has started to monopolise this discussion and since you seem inclined to have the last word and quite desperate to paint yourself as Earnest Goodguy Mc Simple soul I will let you..
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Wow! I only left this this morning! I knew it would be dangerous to enter the pipers' lair ...
Now, I know it won't do a bit of good wading into this, but it is interesting how certain contributors come over so badly on this thread, and slightly satisfying (in a smug sort of way) to think that it's those very same people who won't for a moment suspect it's them.
No, I wonder who'll bite at that ...
PS: @OP: are you SURE you want to be a piper?
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Advice on the pipes
Nice call, ethical -
I'm looking at the bios and would like to pose a practical question: Are there any pipers engaged in this thrilling debate about piping? I'm uncertain.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
I actually feel bad.. Some people obviously take this more seriously than me. Didnt mean to slag ye mate, you seem alrite. I see the words on the screen and I wire a few back. In fairness I let you off the hook a couple of times for making cracks about peoples drinking. In for a penny . notice not once have i slagged Athalupa Quigley for example. why? because she doesnt slag others.. you did, so as bad as I feel that you got the full force of slagging back. dont take it personally.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
I think we should all feel a little bad, not about slagging perse, but for the poor OP. All he was trying to do was get some useful input on starting up on the pipes. Poor guy.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
He probably gave a couple of hundred posts ago.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
Trucks -- This must be my karma, for it was not too long ago I mistook random_notes here for being a gal. Random took this all with aplomb, I must say. Never said anything about it. He even took my remarks about Texas with great forbearance. There's a lesson in this.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Advice on the pipes
You are a dude? sorry. :( I had you down as this female yoda figure. It was not my intention to emasculate. i will admit my karma involved methylphenidate today, and looking back is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. on learnt 3 choons back to back so twasnt for lack of a decent theme tune.
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Advice on the pipes
Wouldn't it be great if Trucks Mulligan actually was John McSherry?
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Advice on the pipes
thanks for the levity, llig.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
HA!
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Advice on the pipes
Knowing John, I think I can safely say he would be mortified by all this.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by mountainkid
Re: Advice on the pipes
To the original poster... I'm not sure if you're still reading, but in response to your original question: I'm a beginner on the pipes, but working hard at it and with a good practice set. I play up to three times a week with a wide variety of people who always seem happy when I show up, and often ask for specific tunes once the pipes are going. As with other instruments, there's an unofficial repertoire of 'piping tunes' and people will likely ask you for their favorites. Of course everybody has their own preferences, but my experience has been that the pipes are generally welcomed by those familiar with them and arouse curiosity in those who aren't.
Also, from what I've heard a David Daye set is fine to get you started, but I think even David would tell you if you plan to stick with it you'll want to get on a maker's list for a 'real' set of pipes (one made from traditional materials, not a budget set) as soon as you can manage, and start saving your pennies.
Best of luck to you!
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by markinpdx
Re: Advice on the pipes
"Knowing John, I think I can safely say he would be mortified by all this."
I've only met him a couple times at tionols and festivals but from what I could tell, yeah, I bet he would be.
Trucks,
Unless you actually know someone in real life, it's not always obvious on an internet forum when someone is being deadly serious or when they're just taking the p*ss. This is a known flaw in the medium.
Jimmy,
It says in my bio I play the pipes.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Advice on the pipes
SS, I know, I just was wondering in general because it appeared that a good number of posters in the thread in general made no mention of pipes in their profile, so I thought it was interesting that such a heated argument about piping had so many posters that appeared not to be pipers, myself included. This thread was a trainwreck and I found myself getting dragged along. One of the most mental threads I've ever seen and/or been involved in, to be sure. Life and the session moves on, both of which are too short to carry baggage, unless the baggage contains and instrument.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Advice on the pipes
Yikes. Just stumbled on theis thread. Wish I had time to read it through.
I doubt very much that silver, bazouki and no cause are the same person.
I also doubt that trucks and sligeach are the same person.
I do however strongly suspect that Trucks and Ali G are one and the same.
First time he Trucks says:
"it is 'cos I is Mac?"
everyone else owes me a drink
- chris (back to the lab <sigh>)
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Advice on the pipes
"Knowing John, I think I can safely say he would be mortified by all this" Mountainkid.
I can imagine. Started off with a normal question and then went mental when Mr. McSherry's blue blood was questioned. I assume he would see the funny side though.
Anyway Jerry I hope you do get hold of a practice set and venture into the world of piping. A Daye practice set should do you alright and the price is decent.
# Posted on November 20th 2009 by Steamwilkes
Re: Advice on the pipes
Did any one mention Seamus Ennis in the above slag? thought so.
# Posted on November 21st 2009 by I_Fel
Re: Advice on the pipes
This has been quiet for some time now. I just flew over most of the posts and even risking of stirring it up again, I had to form a reply in regards to an above statement on Jarlath Henderson.
Here is the quote I am going to comment on: "also Jarlaths piping is not fully formed. Brillant yes but until his style settles and he becomes less of a pre madonna I does think anyone can take a real measure of what he can do yet. "
I am quiet sure that Jarlath playing is formed to the extent his ontake to Uilleann piping requires it, in other words, it is perfect in my opinion.
Here is to the reason why I believe it to be so:
Listening to Jarlath, gives me a clear idea, that he has a very different "energy" and aesthetic motivation for playing the Uilleann pipes, than any other piper that has been mentioned here so far. It is not fitting, in my opinion to state that John McSherry is a better piper than Jarlath, as Jarlath display of energetic technicality as well as highly imaginative musicality is not comparable to Johns rather smooth -and compared- "unadventurous" delivery of tunes. It is like comparing a guy sitting in a Merceds, smoothly driving down the streets of Monaco to a guy in a Defender, winning an off road race.... Now who is the better driver? We can not tell as the discipline is different.
Jarlath display of efforteless technical virtuosity is very probably unparalelled in todays piping world. His control of the very difficult and very varying embellishement techniques he uses at sometimes incredible fast as well as nicely groovy pace are highliting his mastery of the instrument. The point being, he can play like many of todays other top pipers if he choose to do so...most of them though could not play like him if ever they felt like trying...
He is not only a master of the Chanter, his playing on the regulators is matching his style and virtuosity on the chanter. The point here being, that many great pipers have a slight weakness on either chanter or regulator work when playing both together, resulting in a stylistic approach that either limitates the regulator work in favor of chanter expression and technique or that favors regulator work to the cost of chanter virtuosity.
Jarlath musical immagination and capacity to vary tunes and improvise on them using stylistic aesthetics of modern trad, sometimes called "jazzy" (a jazz musician would not call them jazz fusion or any the like, as it has nothing to do with that really) is in my opinion and to my knowledge only really paralleled by Tyler Duncan, who might even be considered to be really credited for taking piping to a new dimension. A dimension, in which the pipes are free of "the tradition" in which they seem to be held as an artefact by a great number of enthusiasts, for noble but in the same time -so I believe- naive reasons.
As to the statement of Jarlath aledgedly being a primadonna:
I do know Jarlath personally, and to my experience - for the star he really is (considered to be the best piper that ever lived by vast audiences in continental Europe as well as Britain) - he is a very friendly, overly humble and well mannerd guy. I can not see where the impression of "primadonna" comes from. His hair was long, yes...he gives more attention to his dress than most other pipers, maybe...but that has not yet qualified his for Primadonna.
# Posted on November 3rd 2011 by Frank Sego