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Susato high D (sb)

Susato high D (sb)

I have a Susato high D and find it very difficult to blow the higher notes ie,. anything above high g, its like I almost have to blow my lungs out to hold the high notes, can anyone suggest another make of whistle that would be easier to get and hold the higher notes.

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Smikinni

Re: Susato high D (sb)

I play mainly a burke brass session and an overton....either work well for me.

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Dave_

Re: Susato high D (sb)

The best I've found for what you want is the Burke narrow bore (any material). I play a Burke DCN (D-whistle, composite material, narrow bore). Plenty loud enough and nice at the high end. I have a Susato as well and find that it is MUCH too loud above the G - no air problems for me (I'm a trumpet player, after all), but a feeling that I'm deafening those around me (including myself!). The Susato is real nice down lower, however...

Pat

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by plunk111

Re: Susato high D (sb)

The humble, reliable, thrifty, and unpretensious Generation. One won't cost you all those many thousands of pennies. (No, I'm not a sales rep.)

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley

Re: Susato high D (sb)

I have not bought a high whistle in years, but I always liked the Oak. The fipples seemed to be more consistent than on Generations. I don't know if they have changed since those many years ago.

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Clark whistles, even without tweaking, are easy to play throughout both octaves. Be authentic, and play a REAL tin whistle!

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by AlBrown

Re: Susato high D (sb)

People love their Clarke's. As far as that style (wooden block) I prefer the Shaw. Clarke's may be less chiffy, if that's what you want. The volume is lower? Then again, I am mentioning brands I do not play these days.

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Yep, Shaws are good also, if you want to stick to the wooden block family!

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by AlBrown

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Chiff & Fipple panned the Oaks;
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/inexp.html

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

"Never was so much talked by so few"

Heres a few helpful suggestions.
Number one "CHIFFYNESS" - hahahaha. Seriously??
Number two dont listen to these people
Clarkes are flat as a pancake
Shaws are offensive to listen to and play being both sharp and flat across the octaves.
Number four - Paying big money is the only way to get a good whistle no matter what the train spotter fraternity says
Number five .. CHIFFYNESS!! that made my night

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Yes, I'm sorry but Generations etc are rubbish. There are very few well known whistle players who still use them, and never un-tweaked ones. Most players who want that sound will go for a Burke or Sindt. If not then Overton or some other reliable make. The few good players who persist with cheapies just ruin themselves. Out of tune and horrible. here is just one example of good playing ruined by an absolutely horrible whistle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUNZCivNCGg . Anybody think that whistle is in tune throughout the range?

# Posted on November 15th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

It would be interesting to ask Mary Bergin what she thinks of the Generation whistles since, after all, she made a landmark recording with them that still sounds gorgeous to this day. How did she come to be using her current choice of whistle and how exactly does it compare to her Generations she used on that recording.

I in fact still have the Generation I bought in 1975, and I still play it. Mind you I have replaced the plastic head piece a couple of times, and I usually have to do minor adjustments, but would I not do the same with just about any whistle?

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Phantom Button

Re: Susato high D (sb)

That's right. Mary Bergin and only people of her calibre can make a Generation sound nice, tweaked of course. But I believe even she has changed to a hand made whistle now. I was looking for a Paddy Moloney youtube I'd previously heard where the generation is miles out of tune but discovered that he now plays a Sindt.

There is a big difference between Mary Bergin playing and your average whistle player.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Please enlighten us Trucks. What is the issue with using the term chiff in a discussion about whistles?

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

'Afternoon, Phantom. Did you ever see the televized response that a great violinist once gave to the question of how could he account for his wonderful sound?: "It's ALL due to my wonderful violin, and nothing else." (Turns to the camera and gives a great big wink.)

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Did you ever see a great violinist playing a sh!t violin?

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Just because a person can name and catagorise every train that passed by doesnt mean he/she can drive a train.

its just.. very Chiffy of you. Im trying to resist this.. cant.. to say somthing is "chiffy" you designate it as having what sound exactly? I suspect its an example of technical vocab that at the time sounds right but on closer inspection is discovered to be pedantic an inappropriate use of a made up term. so said your self u dont play the whistle but then again just because a person can name and catagorise every train that passed by doesnt mean he/she can drive a train. get me .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..

Mary Begin playing British made Generations - simple case of Culchie intransigence and suspicision of anything new. Even at that she realised eventually the merits of a Handmade whistle once the preist blessed it, everyone was happy..

except you , i suspect

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

is this what you mean perhaps? I can understand not buying a shaw if it sounds like this..homie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXYotql6lQA

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Fair play, except I cannot be credited with originating chiff. I have several whistles which I do not currently play. I have played them, but not lately.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

cross-post

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

actually i think the lyrics "you just mad cuz my wheels spinnin and yours aint homie" is a metaphor the conflict at the very heart of this very debate on Good versus Crap whistles. W for is Weshtclare

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Trucks, we're talking about tinwhistles. Chill a little, please.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Random wether you were the origin of the term "chiffy" does not take away from the fact that you used it. and in giving ADVICE! Shame on you squire shame shame shame. surley you can back up such a pedantic term with proper definition and indeed a designation what sound charicteristic a whistle with ample "Chiff" may have. Or are you just full of it like all the other Yankee potato sniffers on here

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

i simply seek to engage you through various musical generes, some would say Rap is the Ulitimate folk music. Black folk

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Its possible to pull gorgeous sound out of humble instruments. It's possible to pull awful sound out of beautiful instruments. My point was that they don't exactly play themselves. Some, even among the humbler instruments, come close. Yes, I had forgot the politics that come with Generations. Sorry about that.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Looks like you busted me, mate.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Random, by chiffy, are you describing that hissing sound some whistles have?

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley

Re: Susato high D (sb)

You are absolutely right there Atahualpa. Though I don't think you get humble instruments, only good and bad ones.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

cross post

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

just a bit of roughness in the tone on the attack of some notes. Anyone need a definition of attack? Chiff is a common term. There is a website which uses it. Maybe ask everyone to define *session* before they can submit a response? I hope not.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

you have more sense than to rise to this, well done. If not dissappointing.. Few Plastic paddies realise the error of their ways.
Miss Quigly,
Its not my fault if by your own suggestion theres politic associated with Generation whistles. If there is its not my fault. Im not the guy they pay to plaster "British Made" across them. Nor am I particularly politically astute, so I wouldnt know. I like the way your posts are painstakingly unoffensive and balanced so I will merely point out and re iterate that -

Mary Begin playing British made Generations - simple case of Culchie (country person) intransigence and suspicision of anything new. Even at that she realised eventually the merits of a Handmade whistle once the preist blessed it, everyone was happy..

Plus there is a big difference between humble and awful. A personal adversion to being showy does not mean you have to be over generous with your acessment of cheap whistles

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

o wait you did.. i touched a nerve.. betting ends

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

I was aware that the Chiif was a componant of the whistle. My suggestion was that the verb to "chiff" was of you own device

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Mary Bergin does play a Sindt D whistle these days. I believe she still regularly uses the cheap whistles as well though.

Some well known players of Susato whistles would include Sean Ryan and Cormac Breatnach.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Those twisted bits of metal with punched holes and a wooden block in the mouthpiece are nasty though and a lot more expensive than can be justified.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Generation Bbs are generally alrite .. not that chiffy :)

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Yes, I wouldn't put Susatos in the same bracket as Generations. They can be played well. Kevin Crawford plays a Susato too. They are tuneful, just not my personal taste. To the OP - the susato is generally fine for the upper notes. You may find it easier by altering you blowing technique, try blowing with a tighter airstream for the upper notes, Breath control can easily be undervalued with whistle playing.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

*

thanks Bogman.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

That is to say they can be played well by your average player, not what I would say about your average Generation.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

I have a different moniker at the moment Random ;-)

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

The generation Bb is a truly great thing. I love playing it in the bath. But the D can be great also. Tweak them, fill them with wax or blue tack or whatever. Mess with them and they can sound great. But when you do mess with them to sound great, you make them quieter and quieter but why is that a bad thing?

There's a thing about playing a tune in your front room late in the evening when your neighbours upstairs have a new baby. Stick bist of blue tack all over it and you can still play as much as you like

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by llig leahcim

Re: Susato high D (sb)

would you bring an airhorn to a session? no ..
so why bring a Susato.. most people would rather see you produce a low end feadóg or Generation. I have witnessed other musicians getting to the point of stuffing a susato with peices of sandwich when the player went for a pee..

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Trucks -- Good of you to allow that, at least about Generation Bbs. Yes, they are all mass-produced; but it doesn't follow that they are all garbage. Is it that some of us lucked out, and ended up with the few good ones?

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley

Re: Susato high D (sb)

i worked in a funfair and shared a converted Lorry with a irritable estoinan fella. tried your blue tack trick. nearly got murdered at 3 in the morning in the middle of nowhere.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

they are rarely in the right hands. For a session, generally too loud alright and the high b and beyond can take your head off.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Susatos - multiple cross posting

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Quigley - quite so. Generation Bbs are sound. Never got one I dont like. not that there is much choice for the money

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

there was a busker , really good. my mate was in getting phone cradit so I walked down to listen a bit and signalled my mate to follow ina minute. threw him a bit of coin and listened. my mate whos a well known piper listened but threw nothing in. after a set we walked off I asked him why he didnt give anything. "What! he was playing a fvcking susato" was the reply

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Miss Mulligan

Re: Susato high D (sb)

did he think the busker was any good?

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

(sb) didn't know what that was - small bore

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Hang on to your Susato. Try something less demanding for a while
then go back to it later if it suits the style of playing that you've developed.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Hup

Re: Susato high D (sb)

There's something about people who play susatos. It's like: LISTEN TO MEEEEEEEE

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by llig leahcim

Re: Susato high D (sb)

When I joined the Bell's session in Edinburgh on a Tuesday night a few years ago, I think, I played a high d Susato. Hope you don't remember me, leachim.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by slainte

Re: Susato high D (sb)

ha ha, I hope you don't remember meeeeeeeeeee.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by llig leahcim

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Susatos, even the small bore ones, have what arms merchants call "Stoping power." They have a prodigious range as well. With a Susato, Hup is able to participate in sessions in the US without leaving Australia. We need only be alert for the p wave here, and jump when the body of the melody hits, a few seconds later. Newbies tend to make the mistake of going all rigid at the onset of the p wave; with their bodies braced so much that they can't play.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley

Re: Susato high D (sb)

To my ear, the most offensive sound to come out of any whistle (apart from in the hand of a 5-year-old who delights in making as loud and shrill a noise as possible) is that of a Susato high D played by a mediocre whistle player (in which category I very firmly place myself). I agree that they can sound great, but only in the hands of a great player. They have a very harsh, screechy, high end, which needs to be brought under control by precise breath control and very tight fingering.

Generation and similar-styled whistles, on the other hand, are perfect for the fair-to-middling player, as they are not too loud (one reason why many players want to 'progress' to a Susato), easy to get a clean tone out of and, in my experience, easy to get good 'poppy' grace notes on. There is, of course, the inconsistency issue with Generation whistles (and other dirt-cheap brands) - which can be solved either by trying out dozens and picking out the best or opting for one of the slightly more expensive brands, such as Oak.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig

Re: Susato high D (sb)

The problem, I think, with Susato whistles is the big difference in breath pressure required between the lower and upper registers. Following the huge burst of air it requires to break into the upper octave, it takes great skill to have the subtlety of control required to keep the high notes sounding clean; I find that I either underblow or overblow them, but rarely get it just right.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Ha ha! I've just bitten the bullet and started playing a keyless
wooden flute (by Reviol).

I don't like hearing more than one whistle at a time so the only
way I'm going to get much session time on a wind instrument
is the flute.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Hup

Re: Susato high D (sb)

"My suggestion was that the verb to "chiff" was of your own device"

Trucks - Call me a pedant, but I can't find any instance of Random using 'chiff' as a verb. Although it does have a definition as a verb here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chiff (3rd entry)

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Can anyone tell me the names of the jigs in the youtube link (posted by concientious objector)?

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Mist on the Mountains http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/256 and The Noonday Feast http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/728

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

I play with a musician regularly who plays a Susato with skill and grace.

The kicker is, she’s a fife player. Breath control? Hello.

The rest of us? 'Stopping power' says AQ, indeed. Hear hear. Dangerous weapon.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler

Re: Susato high D (sb)

'Did you ever see a great violinist playing a sh!t violin?'
There was a famous violinist who was sick of hearing people say that his violin sounded beautiful. At the end of one performance he put his violin down and jumped on it. Into the stunned silence he said, 'I bought that round the corner for twenty dollars. It's not the violin--it's ME!'

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by gam

Re: Susato high D (sb)

"sick of hearing people say that his violin sounded beautiful" - mmm, that violinist may have needed a reality check.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bogman

Re: Susato high D (sb)

Maybe he used a good bow.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Susato high D (sb)

HA! "Yes, yes it does sound beautiful. Let's listen for a moment, shall we?" Puts violin down, sits down, cocks ear thoughtfully, eagerly awaits violin to start making beautiful sounds.

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler

Re: Susato high D (sb)

I think the violinist quoted was Heifetz (he put the instrument down, cupped his hand to his ear and said he couldn't hear anything)

# Posted on November 16th 2009 by RichardB

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