In the sessions I attend it seems as if 75% of the tunes played are double jigs. Is this a common affliction world wide? In the catalogue of thousands of tunes there are SO many choices out there. I am finding myself annoyed by jigs, and I almost wonder if it's just because they are overplayed. I remember when I first started this music,hearing some more experienced players bemoan the jigs... now Ive been at it long enough Im whining about it too...I have observed great guitar players announce they will not play another jig, and kudos to them, seems the rest of us just have to muck through again and again and again and....I have made an effort to bring out slides, and reels, barn dances and flings, in hopes of luring them away, and it seems to work momentarily... then we're back on the double jigs! @hhhhhrg. Am I seeking sympathy or comiseration? I guess just to find out if this is a local affliction.
No, I don't think it's just a local problem. Yes, it's a problem. IMO, it happens when the session is populated mainly by people who don't really understand the music.
There *should" be double jigs in sessions, but not *that* many. Try between 30% - 40%. That'd be more like it. In some sessions, it'd be much less, but you also don't want it unbalanced by having too few.
Random, they seem to really enjoy the others as you mentioned, but alas the majority of tunes that everyone has in common are jigs, due to this pattern being so long standing. Playing in public really demands that at least 4 people know the tunes we play. Thats the fun part of a session sometimes is surveying the crowd thinking to myself "Ok... she knows this one, he almost knows it, and that guy can play anything... so here goes... I get to play barndance X, or Reel Y" Those moments are fleeting though as those who don't know the tunes faces get longer and longer, and so back come the jigs.
Are your sessions populated mostly by beginner and intermediate level players? Jigs are easier to play than reels because the have about 3/4 as many notes per unit time than reels do. I noticed the phenomenon you mention at an "intermediate" session at the Catskill Irish Arts Week two or three years ago when the instructors scheduled to lead it were very late to arrive. The session began without them, with various people starting up tunes chaotically. I think there were about 7 sets of jigs played in a row. I love jigs, but after the 3rd or 4th set, I was getting annoyed.
Wow, I've only ever noticed too many reels being a problem. This is a funny thread, especially if you replace double jigs with reels. A much more common problem I think!
I encourage my mates to listen to recordings & players of tunes I enjoy. Always the ulterior motive of wanting to play those tunes in session. Ocassionally I send out YouTube links, but not too many. My theory is hearing 1,2, or 3 good tunes may get it played in session. If I send out several *suggestions* my mates ignore my emails.
Interesting how some experience beginners playing more jigs than reels. I usually notice beginners playing more reels (& a few hornpipes) & less double jigs.
yes largely intermediate.(I consider myself an intermediate player though to the untrained eye probably appear advanced.. Im not into labels, I like the zen approach, and cherish my educational journey and I like to see everyone else have a good time too.
On that tip, one thing I have tried is placing speed controls on the new Reels I bring out... like really enforcing the pace at something reasonable so a beginner or intermediate can at least hear the tune well, and it worked, I find the advanced players jump onto the tune faster, and Ive had a complement or two from the advanced players thanking me for controlling the speed, and how much nicer etc. That doesn't mean sappy slow...not at all... just controlled put a good governer on the reels ... this is one way to get the intermediates into reels... one idea. Any others?
Random, yeah thats a good post has a lot of truth in the thread too, and startlingly civil discourse! I got a laugh out of "Reels are faster and Jigs are Louder" quote.
I share Nick's experiences. At most of the sessions I go to, we play mostly reels --like 60-70% if not more. I wouldn't characterize it as a problem though; more like an observation. I like reels.
Not sure how to answer your question, Sandy, about getting "intermediates" into reels. I've found that people will learn tunes they like and if they want to learn reels, they'll learn reels. Anyway, you don't have to play them at a manic pace. You can play them laid back swingy Clare style-like and they sound lovely.
i like jigs. I myself play em a lot. Although I have also always had a kind of fear of reels. I think this goes back years to when i first started to play and reels always sounded crazy and fast. They were also the last type of tune my first teacher taught me so increasing their mystic 'hardness'.
Yeah - all for all sorts of tunes in sessions - but not at the expense of the jigs. There are some real crackers that can make the hair stand up on your neck you know - just check out any Bothy Band album
I have tend to find in the past that reels were far easier to accompany on the guitar and jigs were far easier to play on the whistle. I must admit to playing more jigs on the whistle than reels. For a while I had a problem locking the flow of a reel into my head when I wouldn't have a problem with jigs.
As SS says most of the sessions round this way are predominantly reels although we do get a bit of everything including a fair few jigs. There are some cracking jigs out there. I think tomorrow though I am going to try to work on some sets of reels. I need to shake the lethargy!
I think double jigs get played so much (particularly by beginner/intermediate players) because they tend to have only notes of one length in them. This largely removes the rhythm problems for a learner and so simplifies learning. It can also lead to some really awful playing, but that's a different issue.
I'd also concur that the sessions I've been to tend to run mostly to reels. I guess there are a few that play only reels but I've never been to such a one. I've not heard an over abundance of double jigs except around beginners/intermediates.
Most of the sessions that I attend are more reels than jigs. I would estimate averages around 55% reels, 30% jigs, 5% songs, 10% everything else (slip jigs, slides, hornpipes, polkas, waltzes, etc)
I like jigs OK, but definitely prefer reels. And it seems like I can spend months learning nothing but jigs, and still not know the right ones when I get to a session, because there's so many darn jigs!
I love jigs, not saying I don't like reels, but I particularly like jigs with three or more parts. As the music played at sessions, I'm of the opinion that players get so hung up on reels that the forget all the other beautiful tunes that are Trad Waltzes/hornpipes/barn dances and Set Tunes that are available in the Trad repertoire. For example when is the last time anyone at a session ever played or heard The Kilkenny Races or Planxty Davis for example?
I love jigs too. In fact I can't understand how anyone who plays this music could not like jigs or reels. If there's too many jigs at a session then surely the simple solution is just to start reel sets as often as possible.
I'd say skill level is a the biggest factor. Jigs are simply easier to play than reels, no big mystery there. I've spectated more sessions than I've played, both in the states and in No. Ireland, and reels certainly seem dominant. If jigs are 75% that seems a bit unusual. If one is at such a session, and there are no other session options in the area, then perhaps one should take it upon themselves, if they have the time or inclination, to try introducing a slow session about an hour before the regular one, if the establishment supports it, and see if one could generate interest amongst the participants. This may ultimately lead to a more satisfying session. Just a thought.
Miss Lonelyhearts makes some comments about jig phrasing & rhythm (in 'jigs vs reels' link) which might help if the jigs are becoming annoying & sounding monotonous.
Thanks for the many thoughtful responses, seems there are many sessions where Reels are indeed the rule, which is in line with what I've heard and read, so I should get out of my tracks... out of town... take a vacation, and see some other sessions. That sounds like the best advice. That and continuing to enforce controlled reel pacing and introducing non-jigs... which again is sad, nothing wrong with jigs, unless they are over played.
I also should apologize to guitar players as my original post was poorly written, I have never seen a guitar player refuse to ever play another jig, only refuse to play another at a given moment or session.
In Alaska Dave (United States). To clarify I don't dislike jigs, just was curious as to how unique this situation is. It sounds from these responses to be unique but not perhaps to groups largely made of beginner and intermediate players.... which I would say our most jiggy moments are indeed populated by such players.
I find the jig-mania very true - and agree that skil-level is the deciding factor. (I also think they have reel-mania at some higher-level sessions)
I get around the jig overkill by playing maybe 10 jigs in a mamoth set for 10 minutes - play all the jigs they know, and get it over and done with, early in the evening.
I also encourage learners into reels by adapting them into march time or even as hornpipes, both of which make them easier for learners.
(What playing them as horpipes really means is, the reels are a lot slower - just as beginners should be practising them)
In my neck of the woods, we follow a strict "50%reels/25%jigs/10%hornpipes/5%slipjigs/10%everythingelse" formula. Anyone who tries to deviate from that formula has their drink taken from them and struck with their own instrument by everyone in the group. This tends to keep everyone in line.
...Oh, and at the end their drink is poured over their heads. If their glass is empty or near empty, we'll generally wait until he/she has ordered a new round before beginning the ritual. And we never explain why we're doing it. It has more lasting impact if they have to figure it out on their own.
Reely Sandy? That's a reel problem you've got there. I think you reelize what it is you need to do, good on ya, time for a little dose of session reelality for your pals.
I think I start jig sets these days more often than I start sets of reels, but i think that is because there are generally more reels being started by other people rather than a preference for jigs over reels. That and a fair few sessioners will join in with most of my favourite jigs, I have found that some of my favourite reels are less guaranteed to get people joining in.
I think sessions are probably overdominated by (jigs + reels). The problem with hornpipes, polkas, slides etc is the lowered likelihood of havina spontaneous choice being part of the shared repertoire unless it is a very venerable chestnut. I play hornpipes much less frequently than I used to for this reason even though I like them. Slides, I'm very fond of the few I know but don't know enough. Polkas? Well I enjoy some sets whenever someone in the know starts them but never liked them as much as slides.
Barndances? I know we're not supposed to say things like this, but they tend to strike me as really crap hornpipes. I await my correction in this matter with interest
You can go back to Dow's original question ~ type barndance. . . .read through ceolachan's profile. check out his comments in tunes (barndances) submitted by c. Lots of the dancers' perspective.
We have been playing "The New Broom/Hills of Tara" never realized they were so bad, chris.
'c' I love how you've posted this as a barndance, and I love your setting. Thanks once again. It makes a really crap polka.
Posted on June 6th 2007 by Dow
"The Killavil Postman"
June 6th 2007 by ceolachan http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7317
In my neck of the woods, anyone who says they hate barndances have their instrument taken from them and beaten with it. As a result, banjo players in particular love barndances.
All of my silly posts aside, I don't know a single one, just haven't gotten there yet. I do like hornpipes quite a bit though. They are fun to play and have kind of a "stop and smell the roses" effect for me. Even Harvest Home and Boys of Bluehill, they may be considered corny by many, but they're just fine in my book.
All this talk about barndances, wait you're still on hornpipes . . . someone mentioned them. Anyway, I got to thinking perhaps the "Gypsy Princess" could be played with a barndance rhythm. John Williams version is cajun style. I looked it up & sure enough ceolachan scribed out his version in the comments; http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4577
possibly another thread... just why ARE hornpipes cheesy? I admit I sometimes feel just a little dirty after a set of three... sort of like "ok, enough of that did anyone notice?"
Barndances at times have a circus like quality, though not always, if they are modally or minory in feel, (sorry my music theory abilities are about zero), then they have such a life of their own, they become hard to identify at all. Which is kind of cool if you ask me.
Barndances are self limiting usually not played in long drawn out sets, where we live, which might that guilty sensation that comes with too many hornpipes.
Hornpipes per se don't have an inherent cheese-o-meter rating. It's just that some of them, i.e. Harvest Home, Off to California, and far worse than those two, Staten Island, send the cheese-o-meter through the roof.
Well, Sandy Bottoms kind of put me on the defensive. He actually said hornpipes make him feel dirty. Well, I WAS in the Navy, and I like hornpipes, so I guess I'm just a dirty sailor.
SandyBottoms -
My sincerest apologies. However, in my defense, your bio is blank. I will refrain from any gender jokes pertaining to females playing hornpipes and feeling dirty. Oh, there I went. Here comes the part where the thread spirals down and down and down. Good thing it's on the second page already.
What's wrong with Off To California? I cant think of the last time I heard that tune. I remember learning it in a guitar class years ago to play along to dancers. I can imagine that with a bit of swing and the right interpretation it could be a really great tune - at least as good as any hornpipe gets.
A fine tune, Emily! But actually, I came back only for the sake of rambling randomosity;
"Transforming Jigs or Slip Jigs into Reels"
January 19th 2004 by pitnekit http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/2733
You can't beat the Drunken Sailor when it comes to hornpipes.
It nver works well in a session though (and really needs a better name more reflective of the fell of the tune).
I don't think I know Staten Isalnd, certainly can't call it to mind.
Most people know it (OTC) even if they've never played it, it's just drilled into the subconscious cheese filled auditory center of our brains. How cool is that.
I gained a fondness for Alexander's Hornpipe from John Skelton's version. It always reminded me of the TV show The Biskitts - not sure why as listening back the tunes are nothing alike at all.
The song "Drunken Sailor" (if that's the one you're talking about) is not a hornpipe. Maybe "Sailor's Hornpipe" or "Sailor's Delight" aka 'Sweeps'/"The Belfast'?
SandyBottoms, get the session off jigs. Go to hornpipes instead.
11.5?! What kind of cheese meter has decimals? Is this cheese for the discerning palette? Just play the tune & smile. ~ "Cheese." The session will figure it out.
Mix - I was playing the 'Cork Hornpipe' for many years before I discovered that the tune was also known as the Harvest Home. Yet I have an old 78 record of Peter Wyper playing The Harvest Home, recorded sometime in the twenties. Makes me think that maybe the tune originally came from Scotland where it was known as The Harvest Home and was changed to The Cork when it arrived in Ireland.
I am currently trying to force myself to learn jigs. There are so many that I kind of know, yet somehow sit out when they are played at the session because they just get blended in with each other. I can't distinguish much character from jigs, and they all seem to end with the same cadential phrase. I don't have this problem with reels of which I know many more and there are fewer reels that get shoved into the back of my brain
Double Jig Double Duty
Double Jig Double Duty
In the sessions I attend it seems as if 75% of the tunes played are double jigs. Is this a common affliction world wide? In the catalogue of thousands of tunes there are SO many choices out there. I am finding myself annoyed by jigs, and I almost wonder if it's just because they are overplayed. I remember when I first started this music,hearing some more experienced players bemoan the jigs... now Ive been at it long enough Im whining about it too...I have observed great guitar players announce they will not play another jig, and kudos to them, seems the rest of us just have to muck through again and again and again and....I have made an effort to bring out slides, and reels, barn dances and flings, in hopes of luring them away, and it seems to work momentarily... then we're back on the double jigs! @hhhhhrg. Am I seeking sympathy or comiseration? I guess just to find out if this is a local affliction.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
No, I don't think it's just a local problem. Yes, it's a problem. IMO, it happens when the session is populated mainly by people who don't really understand the music.
There *should" be double jigs in sessions, but not *that* many. Try between 30% - 40%. That'd be more like it. In some sessions, it'd be much less, but you also don't want it unbalanced by having too few.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Do the other players enjoy the barndances, slides, etc or do they moan & grumble?
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Random, they seem to really enjoy the others as you mentioned, but alas the majority of tunes that everyone has in common are jigs, due to this pattern being so long standing. Playing in public really demands that at least 4 people know the tunes we play. Thats the fun part of a session sometimes is surveying the crowd thinking to myself "Ok... she knows this one, he almost knows it, and that guy can play anything... so here goes... I get to play barndance X, or Reel Y" Those moments are fleeting though as those who don't know the tunes faces get longer and longer, and so back come the jigs.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Solution wise I just avoid bringing out new jigs. Which is too bad, I like jigs... within reason.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Are your sessions populated mostly by beginner and intermediate level players? Jigs are easier to play than reels because the have about 3/4 as many notes per unit time than reels do. I noticed the phenomenon you mention at an "intermediate" session at the Catskill Irish Arts Week two or three years ago when the instructors scheduled to lead it were very late to arrive. The session began without them, with various people starting up tunes chaotically. I think there were about 7 sets of jigs played in a row. I love jigs, but after the 3rd or 4th set, I was getting annoyed.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by GaryAMartin
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Wow, I've only ever noticed too many reels being a problem. This is a funny thread, especially if you replace double jigs with reels. A much more common problem I think!
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by Nico
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I encourage my mates to listen to recordings & players of tunes I enjoy. Always the ulterior motive of wanting to play those tunes in session. Ocassionally I send out YouTube links, but not too many. My theory is hearing 1,2, or 3 good tunes may get it played in session. If I send out several *suggestions* my mates ignore my emails.
Interesting how some experience beginners playing more jigs than reels. I usually notice beginners playing more reels (& a few hornpipes) & less double jigs.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
yes largely intermediate.(I consider myself an intermediate player though to the untrained eye probably appear advanced.. Im not into labels, I like the zen approach, and cherish my educational journey and I like to see everyone else have a good time too.
On that tip, one thing I have tried is placing speed controls on the new Reels I bring out... like really enforcing the pace at something reasonable so a beginner or intermediate can at least hear the tune well, and it worked, I find the advanced players jump onto the tune faster, and Ive had a complement or two from the advanced players thanking me for controlling the speed, and how much nicer etc. That doesn't mean sappy slow...not at all... just controlled put a good governer on the reels ... this is one way to get the intermediates into reels... one idea. Any others?
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
"Re: jigs vs reels"
February 3rd 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/1364/comments#comment22273
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Random, yeah thats a good post has a lot of truth in the thread too, and startlingly civil discourse! I got a laugh out of "Reels are faster and Jigs are Louder" quote.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I share Nick's experiences. At most of the sessions I go to, we play mostly reels --like 60-70% if not more. I wouldn't characterize it as a problem though; more like an observation. I like reels.
Not sure how to answer your question, Sandy, about getting "intermediates" into reels. I've found that people will learn tunes they like and if they want to learn reels, they'll learn reels. Anyway, you don't have to play them at a manic pace. You can play them laid back swingy Clare style-like and they sound lovely.
# Posted on November 14th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
They sound lovely
Good point Silver. Not so sure a fast tempo has to be manic. It is possible to play some reels very fast & sound sweet as well ~ IMHO.
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
i like jigs. I myself play em a lot. Although I have also always had a kind of fear of reels. I think this goes back years to when i first started to play and reels always sounded crazy and fast. They were also the last type of tune my first teacher taught me so increasing their mystic 'hardness'.
Yeah - all for all sorts of tunes in sessions - but not at the expense of the jigs. There are some real crackers that can make the hair stand up on your neck you know - just check out any Bothy Band album
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by richrua
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I have tend to find in the past that reels were far easier to accompany on the guitar and jigs were far easier to play on the whistle. I must admit to playing more jigs on the whistle than reels. For a while I had a problem locking the flow of a reel into my head when I wouldn't have a problem with jigs.
As SS says most of the sessions round this way are predominantly reels although we do get a bit of everything including a fair few jigs. There are some cracking jigs out there. I think tomorrow though I am going to try to work on some sets of reels. I need to shake the lethargy!
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I think double jigs get played so much (particularly by beginner/intermediate players) because they tend to have only notes of one length in them. This largely removes the rhythm problems for a learner and so simplifies learning. It can also lead to some really awful playing, but that's a different issue.
I'd also concur that the sessions I've been to tend to run mostly to reels. I guess there are a few that play only reels but I've never been to such a one. I've not heard an over abundance of double jigs except around beginners/intermediates.
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by cboody
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Most of the sessions that I attend are more reels than jigs. I would estimate averages around 55% reels, 30% jigs, 5% songs, 10% everything else (slip jigs, slides, hornpipes, polkas, waltzes, etc)
I like jigs OK, but definitely prefer reels. And it seems like I can spend months learning nothing but jigs, and still not know the right ones when I get to a session, because there's so many darn jigs!
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I love jigs, not saying I don't like reels, but I particularly like jigs with three or more parts. As the music played at sessions, I'm of the opinion that players get so hung up on reels that the forget all the other beautiful tunes that are Trad Waltzes/hornpipes/barn dances and Set Tunes that are available in the Trad repertoire. For example when is the last time anyone at a session ever played or heard The Kilkenny Races or Planxty Davis for example?
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I love jigs too. In fact I can't understand how anyone who plays this music could not like jigs or reels. If there's too many jigs at a session then surely the simple solution is just to start reel sets as often as possible.
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by bogman
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I'd say skill level is a the biggest factor. Jigs are simply easier to play than reels, no big mystery there. I've spectated more sessions than I've played, both in the states and in No. Ireland, and reels certainly seem dominant. If jigs are 75% that seems a bit unusual. If one is at such a session, and there are no other session options in the area, then perhaps one should take it upon themselves, if they have the time or inclination, to try introducing a slow session about an hour before the regular one, if the establishment supports it, and see if one could generate interest amongst the participants. This may ultimately lead to a more satisfying session. Just a thought.
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Miss Lonelyhearts makes some comments about jig phrasing & rhythm (in 'jigs vs reels' link) which might help if the jigs are becoming annoying & sounding monotonous.
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Thanks for the many thoughtful responses, seems there are many sessions where Reels are indeed the rule, which is in line with what I've heard and read, so I should get out of my tracks... out of town... take a vacation, and see some other sessions. That sounds like the best advice. That and continuing to enforce controlled reel pacing and introducing non-jigs... which again is sad, nothing wrong with jigs, unless they are over played.
I also should apologize to guitar players as my original post was poorly written, I have never seen a guitar player refuse to ever play another jig, only refuse to play another at a given moment or session.
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
The Reverend's experience matches my own at sessions in my neck of the woods.
# Posted on November 15th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I would agree with most of the above and am curious as to where this session is ( dont need to be exact just within a 100km)
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
In Alaska Dave (United States). To clarify I don't dislike jigs, just was curious as to how unique this situation is. It sounds from these responses to be unique but not perhaps to groups largely made of beginner and intermediate players.... which I would say our most jiggy moments are indeed populated by such players.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I find the jig-mania very true - and agree that skil-level is the deciding factor. (I also think they have reel-mania at some higher-level sessions)
I get around the jig overkill by playing maybe 10 jigs in a mamoth set for 10 minutes - play all the jigs they know, and get it over and done with, early in the evening.
I also encourage learners into reels by adapting them into march time or even as hornpipes, both of which make them easier for learners.
(What playing them as horpipes really means is, the reels are a lot slower - just as beginners should be practising them)
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by geoffwright
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
SandyB - you say "local affliction", but don't say in which country you live.
In my kneck of woods, the percentages of tune-types played at ITM sessions correspond very closely to those quoted by the Rev. above.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
In my neck of the woods, we follow a strict "50%reels/25%jigs/10%hornpipes/5%slipjigs/10%everythingelse" formula. Anyone who tries to deviate from that formula has their drink taken from them and struck with their own instrument by everyone in the group. This tends to keep everyone in line.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
...Oh, and at the end their drink is poured over their heads. If their glass is empty or near empty, we'll generally wait until he/she has ordered a new round before beginning the ritual. And we never explain why we're doing it. It has more lasting impact if they have to figure it out on their own.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Reely Sandy? That's a reel problem you've got there. I think you reelize what it is you need to do, good on ya, time for a little dose of session reelality for your pals.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I think I start jig sets these days more often than I start sets of reels, but i think that is because there are generally more reels being started by other people rather than a preference for jigs over reels. That and a fair few sessioners will join in with most of my favourite jigs, I have found that some of my favourite reels are less guaranteed to get people joining in.
I think sessions are probably overdominated by (jigs + reels). The problem with hornpipes, polkas, slides etc is the lowered likelihood of havina spontaneous choice being part of the shared repertoire unless it is a very venerable chestnut. I play hornpipes much less frequently than I used to for this reason even though I like them. Slides, I'm very fond of the few I know but don't know enough. Polkas? Well I enjoy some sets whenever someone in the know starts them but never liked them as much as slides.
Barndances? I know we're not supposed to say things like this, but they tend to strike me as really crap hornpipes. I await my correction in this matter with interest
- Chris
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I know that there is a tune category here on thesession called "barndances" ramblingp, but I've never fully understod what it means ...
.. but I don't think that it's a synonymn for hornpipes (really crap, or otherwise).
Maybe someone can explain the term properly ...
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
You can go back to Dow's original question ~ type barndance. . . .read through ceolachan's profile. check out his comments in tunes (barndances) submitted by c. Lots of the dancers' perspective.
We have been playing "The New Broom/Hills of Tara" never realized they were so bad, chris.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen
'c' I love how you've posted this as a barndance, and I love your setting. Thanks once again. It makes a really crap polka.
Posted on June 6th 2007 by Dow
"The Killavil Postman"
June 6th 2007 by ceolachan
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7317
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
How can a banjo player not love a barndance?
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
In my neck of the woods, anyone who says they hate barndances have their instrument taken from them and beaten with it. As a result, banjo players in particular love barndances.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
There are some really nice barndances. To be honest I only know like three but they are superb tunes.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
All of my silly posts aside, I don't know a single one, just haven't gotten there yet. I do like hornpipes quite a bit though. They are fun to play and have kind of a "stop and smell the roses" effect for me. Even Harvest Home and Boys of Bluehill, they may be considered corny by many, but they're just fine in my book.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Disagree with you there, Jimmy. While there are many fine hornpipes, Harvest Home and Boys of Bluehill rate an 11 (out of 10) on the cheese-o-meter.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Indeed SS - once fine tunes maybe, but now worn threadbare.
But you omitted to say that the Trumpet Hornpipe (aka Pugwash) rates actually higher (12 out of 10) on the cheese-o-meter) ...
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Ha! Just spotted it.
"Harvest Home" - definitely "corny!
... it's also called "The Cork Hornpipe" - anyone else know that apart from me?
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
All this talk about barndances, wait you're still on hornpipes . . . someone mentioned them. Anyway, I got to thinking perhaps the "Gypsy Princess" could be played with a barndance rhythm. John Williams version is cajun style. I looked it up & sure enough ceolachan scribed out his version in the comments; http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4577
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I didn't say they were my favorites, I just said I'm fine with them, but I understand the cheese-o-meter rating.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
possibly another thread... just why ARE hornpipes cheesy? I admit I sometimes feel just a little dirty after a set of three... sort of like "ok, enough of that did anyone notice?"
.
Barndances at times have a circus like quality, though not always, if they are modally or minory in feel, (sorry my music theory abilities are about zero), then they have such a life of their own, they become hard to identify at all. Which is kind of cool if you ask me.
Barndances are self limiting usually not played in long drawn out sets, where we live, which might that guilty sensation that comes with too many hornpipes.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
might reduce....
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
They're fine tunes...the first 1,000 times. Maybe even the first 500 times. Everyone has a different tolerance level.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I've only played/heard them about 80 times, so I've got some distance to go yet.
I do like hornpipes in general though. Not apologizing for it either.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Hornpipes per se don't have an inherent cheese-o-meter rating. It's just that some of them, i.e. Harvest Home, Off to California, and far worse than those two, Staten Island, send the cheese-o-meter through the roof.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Well, Sandy Bottoms kind of put me on the defensive. He actually said hornpipes make him feel dirty. Well, I WAS in the Navy, and I like hornpipes, so I guess I'm just a dirty sailor.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Jimmy you kill me... I'm a chick.... hope that's not too disappointing
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
SandyBottoms -
My sincerest apologies. However, in my defense, your bio is blank. I will refrain from any gender jokes pertaining to females playing hornpipes and feeling dirty. Oh, there I went. Here comes the part where the thread spirals down and down and down. Good thing it's on the second page already.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
no offense taken here. I think I started it anyway.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
What's wrong with Off To California? I cant think of the last time I heard that tune. I remember learning it in a guitar class years ago to play along to dancers. I can imagine that with a bit of swing and the right interpretation it could be a really great tune - at least as good as any hornpipe gets.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Off to California is usually about 11.5 on the cheese-o-meter.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
A fine tune, Emily! But actually, I came back only for the sake of rambling randomosity;
"Transforming Jigs or Slip Jigs into Reels"
January 19th 2004 by pitnekit
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/2733
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
You can't beat the Drunken Sailor when it comes to hornpipes.
(and really needs a better name more reflective of the fell of the tune).
It nver works well in a session though
I don't think I know Staten Isalnd, certainly can't call it to mind.
- chris
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Most people know it (OTC) even if they've never played it, it's just drilled into the subconscious cheese filled auditory center of our brains. How cool is that.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I gained a fondness for Alexander's Hornpipe from John Skelton's version. It always reminded me of the TV show The Biskitts - not sure why as listening back the tunes are nothing alike at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5v4RRuyMCo
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
The song "Drunken Sailor" (if that's the one you're talking about) is not a hornpipe. Maybe "Sailor's Hornpipe" or "Sailor's Delight" aka 'Sweeps'/"The Belfast'?
SandyBottoms, get the session off jigs. Go to hornpipes instead.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Ben Steen
Speaking of hornpipes, my friend mentioned "Alexander's" the other night. I like John's flute playing. I'll have to give that a listen.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
11.5?! What kind of cheese meter has decimals? Is this cheese for the discerning palette? Just play the tune & smile. ~ "Cheese." The session will figure it out.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Random - I think that the "Drunkern Sailor's hornipipe " that ramblingpitch was referring to is this one - right here in thesession tune db:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/553
Totally different from "What Shall we do with the Drunken Sailor" (a song) and "The Sailor's Hornpipe" (Also called "Jack's the Lad").
... And there is also a polka called "Drunken Sailor"
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
That's the one Mix. Superb tune, possible my favourite regardless of type.
Liam O'Flynn plays it on "the Fire Aflame" and I just downloaded a beautiful version by Jimmy Powers following a link posted by mtodd last week.
Never liked the name much, doesn't seem to go with such a moody sombre tune.
- Chris
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Here's a great version.
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_260_full_programme/
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by GaryAMartin
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Thanks Gary, that is indeed lovely.
- chris
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Mix - I was playing the 'Cork Hornpipe' for many years before I discovered that the tune was also known as the Harvest Home. Yet I have an old 78 record of Peter Wyper playing The Harvest Home, recorded sometime in the twenties. Makes me think that maybe the tune originally came from Scotland where it was known as The Harvest Home and was changed to The Cork when it arrived in Ireland.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
Oh yeah, Free Reed, blame us
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
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Thanks Chris! The name is odd, I wouldn't think such a lovely tune could go with it.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
@ RamblingPitch - Yes, I also very much like that tune (Drunken Sailor)
@Free Reed - As Harvest Home (Cork Hornipe), is clearly considered by many to be a "cheesey" tune, as you say, perhaps it's not Irish.
Who knows? Maybe it's actually "cork" with a small "c".
... The cork in question being one removed from a bottle of the best Highland single malt ....
# Posted on November 18th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Double Jig Double Duty
I am currently trying to force myself to learn jigs. There are so many that I kind of know, yet somehow sit out when they are played at the session because they just get blended in with each other. I can't distinguish much character from jigs, and they all seem to end with the same cadential phrase. I don't have this problem with reels of which I know many more and there are fewer reels that get shoved into the back of my brain
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Earl Cameron