I am about to buy my first Irish Flute.
I play a Clarke tinwhistle and some Low whistles I built myself.
Unfortunately, I cannot effort one of these expensive Irish flutes right now, and I don't even think it is necessary for a starter.
I wanted to ask for recommendations for some not-that-expensive flutes, like Dixon's 2 Piece or Doug's.
Please share your experience with me. Moreover, I found this on ebay:
It seems like a rosewood wooden flute which is cheap, but I cannot recognize any maker or something like that. Is it a good deal after all? Should I take the risk?
My budget is about 100~ dollars including delivery but if it's really worth it, then maybe more.
Thank you very much, I am sorry if my English is too bad!
Do not buy that rosewood flute. Those ebay flutes will only cause grief and loss of money.
I've heard nice things about the Tipple, then there is also the practice flute by hammy hamilton, but I haven't tried either.my 2cents
Thanks for the fast comments!
I am now considering that Tipple, it sounds really good. It's a shame how toy-ish it looks, though. I wonder if it could be painted in black or something.
Anyhow, I searched a bit and I found out the Bamboo flutes.
Would you recommend of of those? Do you know a good maker who makes one under my very limited budget?
What would you have to say about that Dixon 2-Piece flute?
I heared "tinwhistler" playing one on youtube and it doesn't sound that bad to my ears.
I second the vote for the Tipple... I've played Dixons and Tipples (owned both, actually) and the Tipple is much better in almost every respect (well, except for looks). The bamboo flutes are OK, but realize they are NOT tunable and do not (for one of the cheap ones) "feel" like a "real" Irish flute. Go for the Tipple!
Another vote for Tipple. Best bang for the buck.
I'd go for the three-piece, 6-hole flute in D. The wedge will improve the intonation of the second octave--recommended. The lip-plate is a nice touch, too, if you can afford it.
Bamboo is nice, but you can't rotate the various parts like you can with the Tipple, it's not tunable, and it doesn't collapse.
I got that flute a couple of weeks back, it's not THAT bad. I guess it can be classified as alright. I go flat when I try reach a high C, but I don't know if that's the flute itself or my lack of experience.
Over the years I've taught dozens of kids on Hammy's practice flutes and I've yet to have one that couldn't get a tune with reasonable intonation out of it by the second lesson i.e within a week. To my eye it's as ugly as sin, but he cuts a very sweet and forgiving embouchure, and it has a great bottom D.
I haven't played a Tipple for years. They used to have small, circular embouchure hole, easy for a beginner to produce a tone from but not very "Irish" sounding - if that makes any sense to you. In response to similar feedback from others, I've heard that Doug now cuts a larger, oval embouchure which, with a lip plate, should produce a more "Irish" sound though I've yet to play or hear one.
Both the Tipple and the Hamilton have cylindrical bores which inevitably means the second octave intonation will tend flat. Doug uses a wedge to compensate, Hammy relies on the tone hole arrangement and lipping it.
I've heard nothing good about Dixon two piece flutes though I haven't tried one myself. One of my pupils had a three piece Dixon so I've had a few blows on it. My recollection, is that it has a conical bore, a demanding embouchure but sounds surprisingly warm i.e. more like a wooden flute than Doug's PVC.
In summary, I'd recommend the Hamilton over the new Tipple (with wedge and lip plate) over the three piece Dixon.
I purchased an attractive looking low D bamboo flute made by Billy Miller only for $100 including shipping fee, and am very happy with its sound and tone. I'm sure it'll give you an idea of what it is like to play a simple system flute.
I have a cheap, no-name keyless that actually has quite a good tone and is tolerably in tune. But I bought it in a shop with a small local reputation, and I could try-before-buy (not that I was really capable of judging then).
Avoid the e-bay toy - the risk is too high.
I'm with PJ - I'd recommend the Hammy Hamilton practice flute - and it's about your price range. As with any of Hammy's flutes, you have to get used to the size - the finger spacings are similar to his wood flutes - but once you get comfortable with it, you'll like it.
The weight is nice - not as heavy as a Seery or as light as a PVC flute. The head is a bit odd in that the blow hole is very near the end of the flute. Hammy's practice flute is a one-piece and very sturdy, has plenty of volume, and is pretty good for whacking the guitar player who forgot to change tunes. Some players have trouble with the low E and low A notes sounding full, but with practice that goes away.
If you're really strapped for money, look at the bansuri flutes on ebay - or, better yet, in any Indian music shop. You'd look for a GG which is the same as a D flute. (Sometimes they're called GG sometimes D depending on the shop) I recently bought a really nice bansuri flute for $13 USD while in India. (I went back to the shop and bought 4 more in different keys) They're typically quite light, a little quieter than a flute used for session playing, but usually in pretty good tune. Some have a long head to blow hole, some short - this depends on the maker and what part of India it's coming from.
As the others have mentioned, I'd stay away from the eBay no name flutes. Most of these flutes are not in tune with themselves, or with any other instrument. I've tried the Dixon flutes, and they weren't for me.
It would be interesting to ask the shop selling these flutes where they are actually manufactured. I suspect the Far East in some shape or form. That's not usually a recommendation for wooden flutes.
I'm surprised only one person recommended the Folk Flute. It's really very nice. No tuning slide, no keys, no fancy little decoration on the end. Otherwise, it'll have all the tone and loveliness of a wooden Irish flute.
Isn't the Burns Folk Flute the best part of $400 putting it a long way over the OP's budget? I know they're very popular in the US in no small part because they're wooden and easy to play. Last time I had a tune on one was over the summer in Miltown and to my ear the tone was only marginally better than PVC or one of Hammy's aluminium yokes and a long way from what you'd get with a keyless wooden flute from the likes of Hammy. or Eamonn Cotter, or Sam Murray, so I suspect that some musicians would outgrow it pretty quickly for it's price. That said, it's a nice flute (and easier to lug around than the Hammy!).
A good number of my students move on from the Hammy to a keyless Martin Doyle (more expensive than the Burns but there's enough to them to keep the musician going for a good few years or at least until they want Fahey tunes!) but then he's only up the road from us.
Random, no I haven't. Had a quick look at his website when I saw your post. I'm guessing it'd perform much like the Dixon three piece i.e. easy to fill with a forgiving embouchure and a solid lower octave. The tapered bore should help keep the upper octave in tune. If the sound clip does it justice then, to my ear at least, it has quite a thin, pure "un-Irish" tone (God alone knows what I mean by that but I know it when I hear it!) almost more like a whistle than a flute but that could be the recording, the player or my speakers. At $395 it's very expensive for what is still a plastic flute. Like the Burns Folk Flute it seems too expensive for a beginner, and too limiting for an intermediate. It's all terribly subjective. I'm always happy to swap thoughts on flutes: have you tried one?
I have not. I played a Seery years ago & preferred it to Michael Cronnolly's. At the moment I only have silver flutes (& a Sweetheart G in rosewood) I plan to buy a simple flute soon & have considered buying a Delrin model. It is a matter of personal finances, though I might keep saving my money until I can afford a blackwood flute. If I buy a flute from Casey Burns it would be something of blackwood with the tuning slide. Time will tell.
The Forbes flute is not at all like the Dixon three piece--the Forbes is far, far better. Not "limiting" or "thin" in tone at all. It will grow with the player and is readily capable of a full reedy tone.
FWIW, I've owned a Dixon three piece, and played several Forbes, and also owned flutes by Seery, Copley, Hamilton, and Olwell.
I like Casey Burns Folk Flute for a beginner flute, but the Forbes is a great option--when you're ready to move into a Hamilton, Ward, Grinter, Olwell or some other "big" flute, the Forbes can be your rough travel flute.
Well to my ear Desi and Michael make the best polymer flutes around; there've been a good few times over the years when I've been surprised to discover that I was listening to a Seery or an M&E and not something in blackwood. Despite this thread, I'm not one for fussing too much over the choice of flute; get your hands on whatever you can afford, delrin or wood, from a maker with a good name and put your energies into getting the most out of it. The state of some of the flutes played around here with fabulous tone would probably surprise you. And of course, Peter Broderick won the All Ireland on little more than a copper plumber's pipe.
It might be worth giving Michael a call, in the past he's had second-hand polymer flutes in stock that people have traded-in against wooden or keyed flutes. You might be able to arrange something along the same lines. I haven't heard of Desi doing the same but there's no harm in giving him a call.
P J is right, fussing too much about the flute before you start just delays getting started. You will only really be able to form an informed personal preference once you can play a bit. So:
"Get your hands on whatever you can afford, delrin or wood, from a maker with a good name and put your energies into getting the most out of it."
Thanks all for the follow up on polymer flutes. Thanks, to Tamir Bunny as well for submiting this thread. I agree with (& appreciate) the good advice of Doherty, Lonely❤❤, & Crackpot.
~ I can definitely appreciate having a 'rough travel' flute.
A Beginner's Irish Flute
A Beginner's Irish Flute
Hullo all, I am Tamir.
I am about to buy my first Irish Flute.
I play a Clarke tinwhistle and some Low whistles I built myself.
Unfortunately, I cannot effort one of these expensive Irish flutes right now, and I don't even think it is necessary for a starter.
I wanted to ask for recommendations for some not-that-expensive flutes, like Dixon's 2 Piece or Doug's.
Please share your experience with me. Moreover, I found this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Traditional-Irish-6-Hole-Wooden-Keyless-Flute_W0QQitemZ380143722966QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item588254e1d6
It seems like a rosewood wooden flute which is cheap, but I cannot recognize any maker or something like that. Is it a good deal after all? Should I take the risk?
My budget is about 100~ dollars including delivery but if it's really worth it, then maybe more.
Thank you very much, I am sorry if my English is too bad!
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Tamir Bunny
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Hello Tamir.
Do not buy that rosewood flute. Those ebay flutes will only cause grief and loss of money.
I've heard nice things about the Tipple, then there is also the practice flute by hammy hamilton, but I haven't tried either.my 2cents
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by TMB
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
If that's your budget, go for a Tipple. Do not buy the table leg. (Unless you have a table that's missing a leg.)
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by ethical blend
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Thanks for the fast comments!
I am now considering that Tipple, it sounds really good. It's a shame how toy-ish it looks, though. I wonder if it could be painted in black or something.
Anyhow, I searched a bit and I found out the Bamboo flutes.
Would you recommend of of those? Do you know a good maker who makes one under my very limited budget?
What would you have to say about that Dixon 2-Piece flute?
I heared "tinwhistler" playing one on youtube and it doesn't sound that bad to my ears.
Thanks again, you are great.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Tamir Bunny
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
I second the vote for the Tipple... I've played Dixons and Tipples (owned both, actually) and the Tipple is much better in almost every respect (well, except for looks). The bamboo flutes are OK, but realize they are NOT tunable and do not (for one of the cheap ones) "feel" like a "real" Irish flute. Go for the Tipple!
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by plunk111
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Well, with my budget I am not going to look for a similar feel, I just need something to learn and practice on, without suffering too bad
I heard Billy Miller's flutes and they sound very nice, have you tried them?
(I am not trying to ignore your consensus about Tipple, I just want to be sure I covered everything)
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Tamir Bunny
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Another vote for Tipple. Best bang for the buck.
I'd go for the three-piece, 6-hole flute in D. The wedge will improve the intonation of the second octave--recommended. The lip-plate is a nice touch, too, if you can afford it.
Bamboo is nice, but you can't rotate the various parts like you can with the Tipple, it's not tunable, and it doesn't collapse.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by mcswiss
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Also, I'd steer well clear of ebay flutes. The Dixon 2-piece isn't very good. (It's better with the whistle head.)
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by mcswiss
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
I got that flute a couple of weeks back, it's not THAT bad. I guess it can be classified as alright. I go flat when I try reach a high C, but I don't know if that's the flute itself or my lack of experience.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by WobblingFiddle
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Over the years I've taught dozens of kids on Hammy's practice flutes and I've yet to have one that couldn't get a tune with reasonable intonation out of it by the second lesson i.e within a week. To my eye it's as ugly as sin, but he cuts a very sweet and forgiving embouchure, and it has a great bottom D.
I haven't played a Tipple for years. They used to have small, circular embouchure hole, easy for a beginner to produce a tone from but not very "Irish" sounding - if that makes any sense to you. In response to similar feedback from others, I've heard that Doug now cuts a larger, oval embouchure which, with a lip plate, should produce a more "Irish" sound though I've yet to play or hear one.
Both the Tipple and the Hamilton have cylindrical bores which inevitably means the second octave intonation will tend flat. Doug uses a wedge to compensate, Hammy relies on the tone hole arrangement and lipping it.
I've heard nothing good about Dixon two piece flutes though I haven't tried one myself. One of my pupils had a three piece Dixon so I've had a few blows on it. My recollection, is that it has a conical bore, a demanding embouchure but sounds surprisingly warm i.e. more like a wooden flute than Doug's PVC.
In summary, I'd recommend the Hamilton over the new Tipple (with wedge and lip plate) over the three piece Dixon.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
I purchased an attractive looking low D bamboo flute made by Billy Miller only for $100 including shipping fee, and am very happy with its sound and tone. I'm sure it'll give you an idea of what it is like to play a simple system flute.
Have a look at his demostration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFRJXOwaI3w
You can order his flutes from HMT: http://www.hmtrad.com/catalog/winds/flutes.html
Of course, it's not as portable as a three-piece wooden flute, but it does look and sound nice.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by slainte
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
I have a cheap, no-name keyless that actually has quite a good tone and is tolerably in tune. But I bought it in a shop with a small local reputation, and I could try-before-buy (not that I was really capable of judging then).
Avoid the e-bay toy - the risk is too high.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Alex Wilding
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Casey Burns' "Folk Flute"
http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ff.php
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by justwhistle
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
I'm with PJ - I'd recommend the Hammy Hamilton practice flute - and it's about your price range. As with any of Hammy's flutes, you have to get used to the size - the finger spacings are similar to his wood flutes - but once you get comfortable with it, you'll like it.
The weight is nice - not as heavy as a Seery or as light as a PVC flute. The head is a bit odd in that the blow hole is very near the end of the flute. Hammy's practice flute is a one-piece and very sturdy, has plenty of volume, and is pretty good for whacking the guitar player who forgot to change tunes. Some players have trouble with the low E and low A notes sounding full, but with practice that goes away.
If you're really strapped for money, look at the bansuri flutes on ebay - or, better yet, in any Indian music shop. You'd look for a GG which is the same as a D flute. (Sometimes they're called GG sometimes D depending on the shop) I recently bought a really nice bansuri flute for $13 USD while in India. (I went back to the shop and bought 4 more in different keys) They're typically quite light, a little quieter than a flute used for session playing, but usually in pretty good tune. Some have a long head to blow hole, some short - this depends on the maker and what part of India it's coming from.
As the others have mentioned, I'd stay away from the eBay no name flutes. Most of these flutes are not in tune with themselves, or with any other instrument. I've tried the Dixon flutes, and they weren't for me.
Good luck
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Toppish
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
It would be interesting to ask the shop selling these flutes where they are actually manufactured. I suspect the Far East in some shape or form. That's not usually a recommendation for wooden flutes.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
I'm surprised only one person recommended the Folk Flute. It's really very nice. No tuning slide, no keys, no fancy little decoration on the end. Otherwise, it'll have all the tone and loveliness of a wooden Irish flute.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by sbhikes
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Isn't the Burns Folk Flute the best part of $400 putting it a long way over the OP's budget? I know they're very popular in the US in no small part because they're wooden and easy to play. Last time I had a tune on one was over the summer in Miltown and to my ear the tone was only marginally better than PVC or one of Hammy's aluminium yokes and a long way from what you'd get with a keyless wooden flute from the likes of Hammy. or Eamonn Cotter, or Sam Murray, so I suspect that some musicians would outgrow it pretty quickly for it's price. That said, it's a nice flute (and easier to lug around than the Hammy!).
A good number of my students move on from the Hammy to a keyless Martin Doyle (more expensive than the Burns but there's enough to them to keep the musician going for a good few years or at least until they want Fahey tunes!) but then he's only up the road from us.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Folk flute good - at least mine is... Not as good as my Windward flute, or my keyed McGee, both of which cost rather more though.
A search of the forum will also find this topic covered every couple of weeks.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Crackpot
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
PJ, have you played any of Rob Forbes' flutes?
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Random, no I haven't. Had a quick look at his website when I saw your post. I'm guessing it'd perform much like the Dixon three piece i.e. easy to fill with a forgiving embouchure and a solid lower octave. The tapered bore should help keep the upper octave in tune. If the sound clip does it justice then, to my ear at least, it has quite a thin, pure "un-Irish" tone (God alone knows what I mean by that but I know it when I hear it!) almost more like a whistle than a flute but that could be the recording, the player or my speakers. At $395 it's very expensive for what is still a plastic flute. Like the Burns Folk Flute it seems too expensive for a beginner, and too limiting for an intermediate. It's all terribly subjective. I'm always happy to swap thoughts on flutes: have you tried one?
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
I have not. I played a Seery years ago & preferred it to Michael Cronnolly's. At the moment I only have silver flutes (& a Sweetheart G in rosewood) I plan to buy a simple flute soon & have considered buying a Delrin model. It is a matter of personal finances, though I might keep saving my money until I can afford a blackwood flute. If I buy a flute from Casey Burns it would be something of blackwood with the tuning slide. Time will tell.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
The Forbes flute is not at all like the Dixon three piece--the Forbes is far, far better. Not "limiting" or "thin" in tone at all. It will grow with the player and is readily capable of a full reedy tone.
FWIW, I've owned a Dixon three piece, and played several Forbes, and also owned flutes by Seery, Copley, Hamilton, and Olwell.
I like Casey Burns Folk Flute for a beginner flute, but the Forbes is a great option--when you're ready to move into a Hamilton, Ward, Grinter, Olwell or some other "big" flute, the Forbes can be your rough travel flute.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Well to my ear Desi and Michael make the best polymer flutes around; there've been a good few times over the years when I've been surprised to discover that I was listening to a Seery or an M&E and not something in blackwood. Despite this thread, I'm not one for fussing too much over the choice of flute; get your hands on whatever you can afford, delrin or wood, from a maker with a good name and put your energies into getting the most out of it. The state of some of the flutes played around here with fabulous tone would probably surprise you. And of course, Peter Broderick won the All Ireland on little more than a copper plumber's pipe.
It might be worth giving Michael a call, in the past he's had second-hand polymer flutes in stock that people have traded-in against wooden or keyed flutes. You might be able to arrange something along the same lines. I haven't heard of Desi doing the same but there's no harm in giving him a call.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Cross post.
As I indicated, I'm only going on the maker's description and sound clip so am happy to defer to your hands-on experience.
Any thoughts between the Forbes and Seery?
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
P J is right, fussing too much about the flute before you start just delays getting started. You will only really be able to form an informed personal preference once you can play a bit. So:
"Get your hands on whatever you can afford, delrin or wood, from a maker with a good name and put your energies into getting the most out of it."
# Posted on November 5th 2009 by Crackpot
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Thanks all for the follow up on polymer flutes. Thanks, to Tamir Bunny as well for submiting this thread. I agree with (& appreciate) the good advice of Doherty, Lonely❤❤, & Crackpot.
~ I can definitely appreciate having a 'rough travel' flute.
# Posted on November 5th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
Random, thanks for the thanks! It's a change to have an opinionated but informed thread that "dies" in such a civilized fashion.
# Posted on November 5th 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: A Beginner's Irish Flute
cheers that!
# Posted on November 5th 2009 by Ben Steen