I've always loved the tunes that have that wonderful minor feel, ala Swallowtail, Morrison's, Cooley's, etc. There's just something about the juxtapostion of the dark minor mode set to a lively jig or reel that I enjoy. Can anyone suggest some other tunes in that vain that I can seek out for my listening/learning pleasure?
Have a listen to some B minor reels like The Otter's Holt or The Musical Priest. The latter moves between a minor and a major feel and is a really fun tune to play (at least on whistle).
The Monaghan Jig has a really nice minor feel and is an all-round great tune.
There are some nice minor-sounding slip jigs too like Dever the Dancer, The Humours of Whiskey (The Bm one) and The Kid on the Mountain.
I was going to mention the whole dorian mode thing, but it seemed unnecessary to do so in a discussion like this... The question was about tunes with a minor feel, and tunes in the dorian mode most certainly tend to have the aforementioned minor feel
I'm off to find a recording of The Flooded Road to Glenties...
Excellent! Yes, I tried to stay away from saying "minor" tunes for two reasons. One, I know ITM is very modal. Two, I'm not an expert in keys. I understand modes only to the extent of how it looks/feels on the fretboard, but if someone asked my the key signature of A dorian, I would probably change the subject. I figure "minor feel" would make sense here.
Thank you, I will give all of those a good listen. but don't let that stop any further contributions.
I guess the dorian mode has a "minor feel" the same way the Democratic Party has a "left feel." I just mentioned it for clarification... pardon me... now back to your regular programing.
Careful Jimmy - in Arizona a minor feel is a felony.
But at the local session you and I occasionally attend there are some commonly played tunes fitting your description that you may want to have a go at -
Cup of Tea - Edor
Congress Reel - Ador
Bag of Spuds - Ador
Star of Munster - Ador
Gravel Walk(s) - Ador
@Phantom B: " Very few Irish tunes are minor; what you're hearing is the dorian mode. The dorian mode starts and ends on the second note of a major scale."
The case of the familiar "B minor" tunes such as those mentioned (Otter's holt, Musical priest" etc. are interesting cases.
If they were in B dorian, you'd expect a G#, and if in B minor, a G natural. In fact nearly all of them have no Gs at all. (Just as some D "minor" tunes such as Julia Delaney have no Bs, neither flat nor natural.)
This being so, is it accurate to say that such tunes are in the Dorian mode? Or does the mode analysis mode fail us here?
I think it'sgrand to talk about minor-feel but awful to talk about tunes "in A minor" or "E minor." I always thought we only had to talk that way to help those poor guitar accompanists with their chords. One of my favourite tunes that flickers like mad from one mode to another is Brendan McMahon's Reel. Whip out the low D harp and enjoy!
Steve beat me to it, kinda. If you're going to be pedantic, at least do it right:
Dorian is *a* minor mode, so lay off Jimmy B. The mode that typically gets referred to as "minor", particularly among classical players who only generally avail themselves of two modes, is the Aeolian mode, which is another minor mode. The presence of the minor third is what earmarks a scale as a minor one.
I appreciate the defense, TDM, but I know what I'm getting myself into by now. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows what I mean when I say "that minor feel." I figured I would get some useful posts before the whole thing deteriorated into pendaticism. Still, 24 posts into the thread and still largely on point. Not bad. ;)
Al- I don't mind what goes on around here most of the time, except when it gets really nasty, like on that other thread going on right now.
Random- I appreciate the diverse input I get here. I've probably heard maybe 1/1,00th of all ITM that exists, and can probably play 1/10,000th of it. So, there is much, much more to hear and learn. That's why I wanted tunes to find.
ignore the anal antix of the persnickety pedantix, jimmy b. "that minor feel" is more than adequate to express what you're talking about, and i'm here to say, you're not alone. "that minor feel" is why i fell for this music (well, ok-----that, and every dance-based roots music from pakistan/middle-east on west to the british isles and appalachia that has strong modal-minor elements, but we can't play everything).....some of us just seem to be hard-wired to face...THE DARK SIDE!!!!
the music of clare and east galway is loaded with the stuff, though it's not confined to those areas....."white man's blues," is what they say of the "mountain minor" in appalachia, and that about nails it. there would be literally hundreds of tunes on any list....the A-minorish list alone goes on forever, and then you have the east clare tendency to get REALLY dark and play the A-minorish in G-minorish, see? and the e-minorish can get REALLY dark and go d-minorish....
hornpipe time: from clare, try, say, the hornpipe "moll ha'penny," which shares much with junior crehan's "her long dark hair was hanging down her back." or "poll ha'penny," also a lovely dark one. or "the peacock's feather." or "humors of tullycrine." or......
a couple of great e-minor reels are the 3-part e-minor crowleys, not to mention the 2-part e-minor crowleys....
the composers of east galway/tipperary, such as sean ryan, paddy fahy, paddy kelly, etc., can be wonderfully dark, viz, sean ryan's jigs "the castle" or "the nightingale." finbar dwyer's compositions can be as well....
Does the "minor feel" really relate to the key signature?
Would anybody in their right mind really consider Cooley's or the Star of Munster or Morrison's jig or Dever the Dancer to have a "dark" feel? You could get them to be dark, I suppose, but you could do that to the Banshee if you tried hard enough.
But the Mist Covered Mountains does seem to have a "minor feel" - possibly due to the programmatic title - as does "Far From Home" (G major), probably for the same reason.
But what about the Blarney Pilgrim? As major as you could like, but it certainly has more of a "minor feel" to my ear than, oh, Toss the Feathers ever did.
"This being so, is it accurate to say that such tunes are in the Dorian mode? Or does the mode analysis mode fail us here?"
It would depend on what you're using as a dominant. The truly minor tunes I've found are using a 5 chord as the dominant, whereas most others are using the 7 chord. I would call those dorian regardless of missing scale notes.
Ah, shanty, a valid point. However, I would have been deprived of the fine input I've gotten here. I have heard a few of these tunes, but the majority I have to find. I'm not an ITM audiophile (yet). I just love the music and do know a few tunes. BTW, Blarney Pilgrim was the first jig I ever learned, and I'm not getting the minor feel that Jon mentions. It seems very light to me, with a bit of a march feel in the 3rd part.
Fair play, Jimmy. I am not questioning your enthusiasm. These days, personally, I enjoy playing a few tunes well. (They keep coming though, so it may be futile) Always keeping an ear out for a few rare gems.
Cheers!
BTW, you may find some G minor tunes in the db, though they are mostly B♭. But that's another story.
What do you mean by "audiophile"? I've looked up the word, not having heard it before, but I can't make the definition I've found make sense in context ...
It's probably not a well-defined term. Simply put it means music lover, but more specifically it refers to those who are obsessive music collectors. One who has vast archives of recordings would definately qualify as an audiophile. What I was meaning is that I don't have vast archives of ITM recordings. BTW, I don't mean anything negative when I speak of obsessive music collectors. I would be one if my budget allowed it.
The Wounded Hussar is a mighty Carolan piece, it's been on my list of tunes to learn. Another great tune attributed to Turlough O'Carolan is "The Princess Royal" (Miss MacDermott?) often played in session in A-minorish, but I like the G-minorish setting from O"Neill's and as played by Randal Bays on "Salmon's Leap".
I know the key signature for the posting says C major, but the consensus seems to be that the tune is actually in D dorian and in any case, it is quite a minor sounding tune. It certainly would encounter trouble getting into a bar in America.
True, you don't find melodic and harmonic minor scales as a rule in Irish music (although there are settings of O'Carolan's tunes which use them - and, since we know he was heavily influenced by the European art music of the time, the chances are, he would have used them in his compositions.). But there are tunes in the Aeolian mode (natural minor), the hexatonic minor mode (i.e. lacking the 6th altogether, thus neither Dorian nor Aeolian) and some which contain both natural and sharpened 6ths
Dr. Gilbert's: E Aeolian (contains C-natural)
The Otter's Holt: No 6th, but modulates from minor to relative major - very typical of a true minor key
The Chicago Reel: A Dorian/Aeolian - played with either F# or F-natural.
Here's an interesting one - a tune that appears to be in A major, with no accidentals, spending lots of quality time around the A, yet has a definite wistful "minor feel" to it, at least to me. Maybe it's my own knowledge of the history of St Kilda? Or is there something about this apparently A major tune that gives it a minor feel?
Incidentally, The Tempest has no Bs or B-flats in it. Potentially you could put either in by way of variation and change the mood of the tune accordingly.
"St. Kilda Wedding"
Sorry, fuzzygreen - I can't hear anything minor in there. Wistful, maybe - it depends how you play it. I've certainly heard it sounding pretty jolly.
Must be just me then. Maybe wistful is a better word for it.
@SilverSpear: When you play it in D, how do you get it to fit in the range of the pipes? Do you do a lot of folding in the first bit, or does the middle part come out very high? Or some other strategy?
The Dorian scale is a type of minor scale, as is the Aeolian and the phrygian scales. They all have a minor third and a perfect fifth. To say something is not minor because it is dorian is wrong. It is not the natural minor (Aeolian) true, but it is still minor. It is the Dorian Minor Scale.
Fraher's is not a minor tune. It is in D mixolydian and mixolydian is a major mode. I would agree that it is a mode that can sound quite minor though due to the flattened 7th. I have just started playing it in A mix and quite like it in that key. It is brighter on the whistle.
Check out the comments on the following tunes regarding the versions played by Kevin Burke (1st tune)
& Martin Hayes on the 2nd;
"Garret Barry's"
February 13th 2002 by Zina Lee. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/544
Doctor Gilbert is in E dorian, or a D Major key signature with two sharps, F# and C#. There is one phrase (maybe two) that has a C natural at the end, which does prompt me to back it with an A minor chord (iv) for a whole beat, but that is not enough to consider the whole to tune to be Aeolian. Although I am sure there are different interpretations, and perhaps you learned the Dispute (not sure of key, don't know this tune, maybe E aeolian.) and later assumed that Doctor Gilbert was the same tune, because of a freakish similarity.
That Minor Feel
That Minor Feel
I've always loved the tunes that have that wonderful minor feel, ala Swallowtail, Morrison's, Cooley's, etc. There's just something about the juxtapostion of the dark minor mode set to a lively jig or reel that I enjoy. Can anyone suggest some other tunes in that vain that I can seek out for my listening/learning pleasure?
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
Have a listen to some B minor reels like The Otter's Holt or The Musical Priest. The latter moves between a minor and a major feel and is a really fun tune to play (at least on whistle).
The Monaghan Jig has a really nice minor feel and is an all-round great tune.
There are some nice minor-sounding slip jigs too like Dever the Dancer, The Humours of Whiskey (The Bm one) and The Kid on the Mountain.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: That Minor Feel
For Bm reels you can't do much better than The Flooded Road to Glenties.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: That Minor Feel
Very few Irish tunes are minor; what you're hearing is the dorian mode. The dorian mode starts and ends on the second note of a major scale.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Phantom Button
D dorian
Ditto!
"Sergeant Early's Dream"
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
I was going to mention the whole dorian mode thing, but it seemed unnecessary to do so in a discussion like this... The question was about tunes with a minor feel, and tunes in the dorian mode most certainly tend to have the aforementioned minor feel
I'm off to find a recording of The Flooded Road to Glenties...
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: That Minor Feel
Well seeing as it has been brought up The Flooded Road is in B Dorian.
There are lots of tunes that are minor however (in the traditional sense), particularly Em. There are not many in Am however.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: That Minor Feel
And if you are after a recording then here is a great one to be going on with from Glasgow's own Katie Boyle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqfGl8jyAKY
Oddly enough I was in Glenties in the summer and visited the Glen Tavern for the session and the rain was fierce as I drove out there.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: That Minor Feel
Excellent! Yes, I tried to stay away from saying "minor" tunes for two reasons. One, I know ITM is very modal. Two, I'm not an expert in keys. I understand modes only to the extent of how it looks/feels on the fretboard, but if someone asked my the key signature of A dorian, I would probably change the subject. I figure "minor feel" would make sense here.
Thank you, I will give all of those a good listen. but don't let that stop any further contributions.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
don't fret it. ;)
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
A really nice A dorian reel is "Saint Ruth's Bush". I like fiddler Joe Ryan's recording of it on "An Buachaill Dreiote".
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by musicstudent
Re: That Minor Feel
I guess the dorian mode has a "minor feel" the same way the Democratic Party has a "left feel." I just mentioned it for clarification... pardon me... now back to your regular programing.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: That Minor Feel
Careful Jimmy - in Arizona a minor feel is a felony.
But at the local session you and I occasionally attend there are some commonly played tunes fitting your description that you may want to have a go at -
Cup of Tea - Edor
Congress Reel - Ador
Bag of Spuds - Ador
Star of Munster - Ador
Gravel Walk(s) - Ador
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: That Minor Feel
I used to like the dark minor ones too.
Then I grew up and now only play tunes in G maj ... all night.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: That Minor Feel
It is doubtful that I will ever grow up.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
/mode nerd mode on
@Phantom B: " Very few Irish tunes are minor; what you're hearing is the dorian mode. The dorian mode starts and ends on the second note of a major scale."
The case of the familiar "B minor" tunes such as those mentioned (Otter's holt, Musical priest" etc. are interesting cases.
If they were in B dorian, you'd expect a G#, and if in B minor, a G natural. In fact nearly all of them have no Gs at all. (Just as some D "minor" tunes such as Julia Delaney have no Bs, neither flat nor natural.)
This being so, is it accurate to say that such tunes are in the Dorian mode? Or does the mode analysis mode fail us here?
/mode nerd mode off
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Jeeves Tones
Re: That Minor Feel
Yes, it fails us. It's a construct external to the music. Interesting to debate, though.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: That Minor Feel
Some of my favorites:
Whelan’s Jig – Em/dor
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1447
Hearty Boys of Ballymote – Em/dor
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/5808
Paddy Fahy’s (Reel #1) Dm/dor
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/463
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by fidkid
Re: That Minor Feel
I think it'sgrand to talk about minor-feel but awful to talk about tunes "in A minor" or "E minor." I always thought we only had to talk that way to help those poor guitar accompanists with their chords. One of my favourite tunes that flickers like mad from one mode to another is Brendan McMahon's Reel. Whip out the low D harp and enjoy!
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: That Minor Feel
Now you're just being patronizing. You too Jeezes.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Cross-post
not you Steve ~ you're right, those poor backers.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
I always regarded Otter's Holt as being a B Aeolian tune, like Earl's Chair and Shores of Lough Gowna. Dow...
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: That Minor Feel
Steve beat me to it, kinda. If you're going to be pedantic, at least do it right:
Dorian is *a* minor mode, so lay off Jimmy B. The mode that typically gets referred to as "minor", particularly among classical players who only generally avail themselves of two modes, is the Aeolian mode, which is another minor mode. The presence of the minor third is what earmarks a scale as a minor one.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: That Minor Feel
Yeah, if you can only count to 3.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
Trip to Sligo,Julia Delaney,Tam Lin,Mist Covered Mountains,
Caughnut Man's Rambles has a nice juxtaposition between the two parts.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by shanty
Re: That Minor Feel
I appreciate the defense, TDM, but I know what I'm getting myself into by now. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows what I mean when I say "that minor feel." I figured I would get some useful posts before the whole thing deteriorated into pendaticism. Still, 24 posts into the thread and still largely on point. Not bad. ;)
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
For some generic info on the modes most common in Irish music, click on my user name, find the essay I posted there, and scroll about halfway down.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by AlBrown
Re: That Minor Feel
But why do you want a list of tune names?
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
Jimmy,
Cross-posted!
What you describe is "That Nasty Feel" that poisons so much of our discussion around here.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by AlBrown
my apologies Al.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
I simply considered what I would want to hear & posted that tune.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
as for a jig, I do enjoy Jr. Crehan's "Mist Covered Mountain"
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Sp.
pedantic
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
Al- I don't mind what goes on around here most of the time, except when it gets really nasty, like on that other thread going on right now.
Random- I appreciate the diverse input I get here. I've probably heard maybe 1/1,00th of all ITM that exists, and can probably play 1/10,000th of it. So, there is much, much more to hear and learn. That's why I wanted tunes to find.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
The Wounded Hussar (aka Captain O'Kane) - Amin from memory. Lovely tune.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by bc_box_player
Re: That Minor Feel
Why not listen to some of these tunes? Here ya are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Ih2exOFNI
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by shanty
Re: That Minor Feel
ignore the anal antix of the persnickety pedantix, jimmy b. "that minor feel" is more than adequate to express what you're talking about, and i'm here to say, you're not alone. "that minor feel" is why i fell for this music (well, ok-----that, and every dance-based roots music from pakistan/middle-east on west to the british isles and appalachia that has strong modal-minor elements, but we can't play everything).....some of us just seem to be hard-wired to face...THE DARK SIDE!!!!
the music of clare and east galway is loaded with the stuff, though it's not confined to those areas....."white man's blues," is what they say of the "mountain minor" in appalachia, and that about nails it. there would be literally hundreds of tunes on any list....the A-minorish list alone goes on forever, and then you have the east clare tendency to get REALLY dark and play the A-minorish in G-minorish, see? and the e-minorish can get REALLY dark and go d-minorish....
hornpipe time: from clare, try, say, the hornpipe "moll ha'penny," which shares much with junior crehan's "her long dark hair was hanging down her back." or "poll ha'penny," also a lovely dark one. or "the peacock's feather." or "humors of tullycrine." or......
a couple of great e-minor reels are the 3-part e-minor crowleys, not to mention the 2-part e-minor crowleys....
the composers of east galway/tipperary, such as sean ryan, paddy fahy, paddy kelly, etc., can be wonderfully dark, viz, sean ryan's jigs "the castle" or "the nightingale." finbar dwyer's compositions can be as well....
it's a vast list, and we're grateful for that.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by ceemonster
Re: That Minor Feel
Does the "minor feel" really relate to the key signature?
Would anybody in their right mind really consider Cooley's or the Star of Munster or Morrison's jig or Dever the Dancer to have a "dark" feel? You could get them to be dark, I suppose, but you could do that to the Banshee if you tried hard enough.
But the Mist Covered Mountains does seem to have a "minor feel" - possibly due to the programmatic title - as does "Far From Home" (G major), probably for the same reason.
But what about the Blarney Pilgrim? As major as you could like, but it certainly has more of a "minor feel" to my ear than, oh, Toss the Feathers ever did.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: That Minor Feel
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/14054
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: That Minor Feel
Tongadale
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/5473
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by domnull
Re: That Minor Feel
"This being so, is it accurate to say that such tunes are in the Dorian mode? Or does the mode analysis mode fail us here?"
It would depend on what you're using as a dominant. The truly minor tunes I've found are using a 5 chord as the dominant, whereas most others are using the 7 chord. I would call those dorian regardless of missing scale notes.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: That Minor Feel
I'm learning Sweeney's Buttermilk these days, a great B minor reel.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ramiro
Re: That Minor Feel
Which Toss the Feathers? Major or minor? And if minor, which one? Ho hum ...
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by ethical blend
Re: That Minor Feel
ceemonster is dead on about a lot of Appalachian music. Pretty Polly, Little Pink, Shady Grove etc...some of the lonliest stuff ever.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by shanty
Re: That Minor Feel
The best answer,40 posts ago, should have been---search the tune base in the Dorian and Aeolian modes....
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by shanty
Re: That Minor Feel
Ah, shanty, a valid point. However, I would have been deprived of the fine input I've gotten here. I have heard a few of these tunes, but the majority I have to find. I'm not an ITM audiophile (yet). I just love the music and do know a few tunes. BTW, Blarney Pilgrim was the first jig I ever learned, and I'm not getting the minor feel that Jon mentions. It seems very light to me, with a bit of a march feel in the 3rd part.
ceemonster - I like your input. Thanks.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
Fair play, Jimmy. I am not questioning your enthusiasm. These days, personally, I enjoy playing a few tunes well. (They keep coming though, so it may be futile) Always keeping an ear out for a few rare gems.
Cheers!
BTW, you may find some G minor tunes in the db, though they are mostly B♭. But that's another story.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
What do you mean by "audiophile"? I've looked up the word, not having heard it before, but I can't make the definition I've found make sense in context ...
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by ethical blend
Re: That Minor Feel
It's probably not a well-defined term. Simply put it means music lover, but more specifically it refers to those who are obsessive music collectors. One who has vast archives of recordings would definately qualify as an audiophile. What I was meaning is that I don't have vast archives of ITM recordings. BTW, I don't mean anything negative when I speak of obsessive music collectors. I would be one if my budget allowed it.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
OK. Thanks for explaining. I feel suitably edumacated.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by ethical blend
Re: That Minor Feel
The Wounded Hussar is a mighty Carolan piece, it's been on my list of tunes to learn. Another great tune attributed to Turlough O'Carolan is "The Princess Royal" (Miss MacDermott?) often played in session in A-minorish, but I like the G-minorish setting from O"Neill's and as played by Randal Bays on "Salmon's Leap".
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by fidkid
Re: That Minor Feel
Well, I do work in the edumication field. Hence, why my posts tend to explain in three sentences what one will do for normal people.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
Ah. I see I misspelt "edumicated". Sorry for that. Must try harder.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by ethical blend
Re: That Minor Feel
That's the spirit!
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: That Minor Feel
The Tempest. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1004
I know the key signature for the posting says C major, but the consensus seems to be that the tune is actually in D dorian and in any case, it is quite a minor sounding tune. It certainly would encounter trouble getting into a bar in America.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: That Minor Feel
True, you don't find melodic and harmonic minor scales as a rule in Irish music (although there are settings of O'Carolan's tunes which use them - and, since we know he was heavily influenced by the European art music of the time, the chances are, he would have used them in his compositions.). But there are tunes in the Aeolian mode (natural minor), the hexatonic minor mode (i.e. lacking the 6th altogether, thus neither Dorian nor Aeolian) and some which contain both natural and sharpened 6ths
Dr. Gilbert's: E Aeolian (contains C-natural)
The Otter's Holt: No 6th, but modulates from minor to relative major - very typical of a true minor key
The Chicago Reel: A Dorian/Aeolian - played with either F# or F-natural.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: That Minor Feel
Here's an interesting one - a tune that appears to be in A major, with no accidentals, spending lots of quality time around the A, yet has a definite wistful "minor feel" to it, at least to me. Maybe it's my own knowledge of the history of St Kilda? Or is there something about this apparently A major tune that gives it a minor feel?
St Kilda Wedding Reel
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1606
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by fuzzygreen
Re: That Minor Feel
Incidentally, The Tempest has no Bs or B-flats in it. Potentially you could put either in by way of variation and change the mood of the tune accordingly.
"St. Kilda Wedding"
Sorry, fuzzygreen - I can't hear anything minor in there. Wistful, maybe - it depends how you play it. I've certainly heard it sounding pretty jolly.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: That Minor Feel
That one has always sounded pretty major to me, though I prefer it played in D because of the cranning potential.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: That Minor Feel
Must be just me then. Maybe wistful is a better word for it.
@SilverSpear: When you play it in D, how do you get it to fit in the range of the pipes? Do you do a lot of folding in the first bit, or does the middle part come out very high? Or some other strategy?
In the interest of being on topic, here are some very minor tunes:
Man of the House
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/222
Fraher's
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/992
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by fuzzygreen
Re: That Minor Feel
By folding do you mean play the odd phrase in a different octave? Then yes.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: That Minor Feel
@SilverSpear: That's what I meant, thanks. I'll give it a try in D; sounds like it would be fun on flute.
# Posted on November 3rd 2009 by fuzzygreen
Re: That Minor Feel
What do you get when you drop a piece of machinery down a mine shaft?
A flat miner.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: That Minor Feel
The Dorian scale is a type of minor scale, as is the Aeolian and the phrygian scales. They all have a minor third and a perfect fifth. To say something is not minor because it is dorian is wrong. It is not the natural minor (Aeolian) true, but it is still minor. It is the Dorian Minor Scale.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by woops
Re: That Minor Feel
Fraher's is not a minor tune. It is in D mixolydian and mixolydian is a major mode. I would agree that it is a mode that can sound quite minor though due to the flattened 7th. I have just started playing it in A mix and quite like it in that key. It is brighter on the whistle.
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: That Minor Feel
AlBrown, in the version of that joke that I know, it's a piano that gets dropped down the mine shaft
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: That Minor Feel
Thanks Woops, that's an even better clarification; "a type of minor scale."
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: That Minor Feel
@No Cause: Another faux minor tune, then! But in this case I'll plead technicalities and say the thread is asking for tunes with a "minor feel".
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by fuzzygreen
That Dorian (Grey) Mode
"The Dorian Mode Explored "
http://guitar.about.com/library/weekly/aa052001a.htm
# Posted on November 4th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
Check out the comments on the following tunes regarding the versions played by Kevin Burke (1st tune)
& Martin Hayes on the 2nd;
"Garret Barry's"
February 13th 2002 by Zina Lee.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/544
"I Buried My Wife And Danced On Her Grave"
November 18th 2001 by Miss Lonelyhearts.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/383
# Posted on November 5th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: That Minor Feel
Doctor Gilbert is in E dorian, or a D Major key signature with two sharps, F# and C#. There is one phrase (maybe two) that has a C natural at the end, which does prompt me to back it with an A minor chord (iv) for a whole beat, but that is not enough to consider the whole to tune to be Aeolian. Although I am sure there are different interpretations, and perhaps you learned the Dispute (not sure of key, don't know this tune, maybe E aeolian.) and later assumed that Doctor Gilbert was the same tune, because of a freakish similarity.
# Posted on November 5th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: That Minor Feel
X: 1
T: Larmor Plage
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: reel
K: Gmin
|: B,3 G, A,B,CA, | B,G,CA, DGGA | BAGA Bcdg | bgfa g3 a |
bg (3ggg fd (3ddd | cAdB cedc | BG (3GGG FDCD |FdcA G4 :|
|: g3 a gddf | gbaf gfdc | BG (3GGG FGAc | BGAF GFDF |
GD (3DDD B3 A | cAGF GABc | dg (3ggg bgdc | BdAF G4 :|
# Posted on November 5th 2009 by Earl Cameron