i know many of you would prefer to have no songs at all in sessions, and you may be right, but this isnt about the songs vs no songs debate.
if you have a song friendly session,
what songs do youse think are acceptable, or is it a case of anything goes?
i dont agree that anything goes;
i have found myself listening to songs in sessions thinking "what the ******g f*** does this have to do with irish sessions?"
but i cant define where the line is.
whats acceptable?
you might say "irish songs"; but what does that mean?
a stor mo chroi, of course.
galway girl was written by a yank
from clare to here was written by a bloke from croyden.
or songs written by irish writers?
i recently heard a session punter request "teenage kicks".
or you might think "anything recorded by a big irish artist"
would you baulk at "nothing compares to you"? i hope so....
do you have any rules of thumb for this?
-----
a separate issue is that oh so many of these "irish" songs (whilst being splendid in their own way) are totally maudlin and lamenting, and shouldnt be sung at sessions as they really arent conducive to a jolly friday evening at the boozer.
I think that there's often a hierarchy of songs that values sean nos over Clancy-style stuff, with sappy, hackneyed songs like Danny Boy at the very bottom. I think it also depends on the session you're at.
If you have songs, why not traditional Irish folk songs to go with traditional Irish dance tunes? Certainly wouldn't want anyone breaking into a U2 song....
We often have songs if a good singer is present. We are lucky, as no matter what we sing, it doesn't pull the session off track. Generally the most we sing is one song to four or five tune sets. We sing pretty much everything, mostly old Irish American favorites, but sometimes even Beatles songs. We have no problem with the sappy stuff, it wouldn't be overplayed if someone didn't love it! The publican is partial to an old Tom Paxton song, so it gets sung almost on a weekly basis. But we also have weeks where no singing is done at all--it all depends on who shows up.
Here in SF we have a fella who comes in to sit at the bar and enjoy the tunes who happens to also be a fine singer. He knows we will call for a song whenever he feels like singing, or we might ask him to. The bar goes silent while he sings and erupts in glorious applause when he finishes. If we find out someone in the session is also a singer, we'll call for quiet and ask for a song. It's usually a trad song, but we have no requirements restricting their choices. No one has yet to take advantage of the opportunities and it only adds to the session to have songs included.
thanks y'all.
i love the odd song, i think 5 to 1 sounds about right.
after all, those melody players need a cig every now and then.
one thing i didnt say is that whilst it seems ok to sneak in
"lark in the morning" every bleedin session, doing the same songz every week makes me want to boil my own face in acid.
do songs get old quicker than tunes?
I think you're right, rumpole, songs probably do get tired quicker than tunes. A lot of "baggage" comes with a song. Tunes seem more anonymous, if you can understand what I'm trying (unsuccesfully) to say.
There's also the whole category of drinking songs, like Whiskey in the Jar. Ugh. Gets the non-playing bar patrons all riled up and can kill the whole ambience of a good session.
Love good singing. I think the line is easily drawn by the specific session, is it in a bar?(Sing along guitar songs), late at night in the back of the shop?(A good time for a good soloist with a drum) At home in an intimate group?,(anything goes) there's often an appropriate song, at an appropriate moment, I find those moments define themselves, and the good singers often oblige... and I love it.
We're insanely lucky to have several wonderful singers at our session. One plays the bodhran, and the other guitar. One does trad songs (and Stan Rogers' classics), while the other is just as likely to break into Joni Mitchell. We love them both. The nice thing is that neither derails the tunes--in spite of how great their voices sound after an hour of toonage, we always manage to segue back into "instrumentals." Frankly, I don't get to hear enough of either of them, even though I'm known to make jokes about "not another feckin song."
We're also very lucky in our Monday night session when it comes to singers. Jimmy Martin from Newfoundland is often in with traditional songs as well as a few that he's composed and the new girl behind the bar, Bríde Cosgrove is an exceptional singer from Kerry and will often give a turn between pints if she's in the mood. We encourage singing at our session and long may it remain so. It's a tiny pub so a bit of hush is not much to ask. We've generally never had any problems with quietening down.
To be honest I have no problem with a song at a session as long as the songs don't take priority. If the songs are from members of the session, no problem. Unfortunately it's the outsiders who are usually the trouble. While the rest of musicians take a breather, I as a box player, am expected to accompany said singer usually in a Yale key. On many occasions I've put the box on the floor only to be asked by singers not involved in the session, " Are you not going to play with me then". Sometimes I've gone to the loo and waited until the dirge has finished. Above all, I really detest been trapped and having to sit there while a singer relates with great passion about the exploits of some hero who got killed while trying to plant a bomb. If only I had the guts to stand up and say I'm outta here, but life's too short and I want to enjoy what's left of mine.
The songs should match the tone or tempo of the session, and, hopefully, the "theme" (Irish Traditional, right?).
When things are rolling, and everyone is glad they are, the last thing to do is to put a damper on a good party. A poorly chosen song can kill the mood, obviously.
As for "nothing cloying or schmaltzy", I would let the time and the mood dictate - at the end of the evening, if the atmosphere dictates, AND IF ENCOURAGED TO DO SO, why not something a bit evocative and wistful?
Yeah Ilig, I draw the line with what I call the "guitar player who has a lot to say". I have zero tolerance with that "folk" stuff. Unless it's Bob Dylan, wasn't he a rock musician?
same as tunes ~ if the person who starts off a song is making a contribution (in a particular session) then it is all crack.
If there is no crack why have a session, regardless of what any board considers acceptable.
Just as it would not be appropriate for a musician to drop in and play their party piece from any old genre, I would not appreciate a singer doing the same. I would be more indulgent if a member of the session decided "and now for something completely different".
In general, the songs should reflect the nature of the session.
It is incomprehensible to me why someone who has worked hard for many years to internalize traditional music should revert to songs from their garage band days.
rumpole, seems the purpose of a friday evening boozer may become lost once you begin to impose exceptions. Having said that, I used to met a few of my mates, at Sierra Nevada's Brew Pub, before Tuesday sessions. Then, one night Mark brought Cynthia. Fair play, she had not come before, but we don't have rules. When she began tallying how many beers we were consuming it put a slight damper on the revelry of what is the brew pub. No worries, though. We are all good friends. Cannot remember if she sang any songs at the session that night. She is always welcome to sing any song she likes.
Cheers!
Anthemic pop or rock stuff - or maybe anything else but *not* weedy singer-songwriter nappy-fill about relationships and b*ll*cks extruded in a foul mid-Atlantic whinge.
Which is, of course, what the Meeja think is what folk is, judging by most of the reviews.
"It is incomprehensible to me why someone who has worked hard for many years to internalize traditional music should revert to songs from their garage band days."
I was listening to an interview with Jerry Douglas the other day. He was saying about how singers will always have the lime light over instrumentalists. That's just the way it is. But that words get in the way of music. And that by playing an instrument that can laugh and cry, he can play music with all the emotions of a song,
'by playing an instrument that can laugh and cry, he can play music with all the emotions of a song.'
But do non musicians hear it? One of the things I love about this music is how the mood, or mode, can change on just one note of the melody. Without the use of a chord. Of course people get the overblown sadness of minor chords or the anguished wailing of a blues bend but do they " hear" the more subtle changes in Irish tunes? To many listeners (and even a few bodhran players I know) all the tunes sound the same!?!
I'd say they do, shanty, perhaps subconsciously, but they do. We're just more attuned to those workings of our subconsciousness because we do this all the time.
What the heck am I on about now?
We have all sorts of songs, we try to keep a lid on. I have to play sergeant at arms occasionally because the singers will sometimes try to follow one song with another. NIEN! NICHT ZU VIEL SINGEND! (whack whack)
The biggest beef about songs at sessions is that usually there's one person involved with singing the song, which leaves everyone else out. It's a communal tune playing experience, basically, so songs by their nature exclude that.
Unless you get that awful situation where someone sings a well known song, and all these bored musicians jump on it, flailing away at the melody, making a giant muddy noise and drowning out the singer's voice, which is WORSE than sitting through a song.
I don't care what you sing, as long as it's acoustic. For giggles I sometimes sing "Hey Hey, What Can I Say?" by Led Zeppelin while I accompany myself on a banjo. It sounds quite amusing squeezed in between a few sets of reels.
Our session is a tunes session, but we have some ocassional visitors or more or less regulars that sing. I like having some songs over the course of the night, with about three or four feeling about right (more or less one an hour).
Some of our other regulars will sing if in the mood. I like hearing certain party pieces that I associate with particular friends.
The other thing is, me and my mates sit and play largely Irish diddley tunes because we think they are the best tunes (and the way they are played - same thing) in the world. We play tunes from elsewhere as well, Finland, Scotland, Spain, etc, but not many. The point being, we don't play Irish tunes out of any sort of emotional or cultural attachment to them (even though some of us may have emotional and/or cultural attachments to them) because we think they are the best.
The same should go with songs. The traditional songs are just bloody awful. You'll never ever find one any where near as good as Ziggy Stardust. No where near.
depends on whether or not the so-called non musician is listening. I can think of a few people who have very good ears, yet never touch a musical instrument.
"The biggest beef about songs at sessions is that usually there's one person involved with singing the song, which leaves everyone else out.". Not when it's An Chéad Mháirt de Fhómhair in a Rann na Feirste pub or Raghad-sa 's mo Cheataí in Corca Dhuibhne.
"we don't play Irish tunes out of any sort of emotional or cultural attachment to them". Sure I have a good number of tunes that I play simply because I like them, but for the vast majority the emotional or cultural attachment is as, if not more, important than the melody.
Isn't it the link to the locality, to the community, that distinguishes the music, whether it be song or dance, as trad?
If your emotional or cultural attachment to the melody is more important than the melody itself then that's fine of course. For me it's not. We all have different reasons to play these tunes and I respect those reasons.
llig leahcim sounds like you are a bloody idgit! how can you say that traditional songs are bloody aweful???? in the same breath you say that you play irish trad because it is the best.....sounds like you really dont know what the hell you are talking about and i bet your music sounds like it too!
Even apparently "awful" music (vocal or instrumental) can be good when sung or played by someone who knows what they're doing and understand the music.
A simple example - give the dots of a typical Irish reel or polka to a classical player who has never heard Irish music (such people are around). There's a chance that they'll treat it is as little more than a fingering exercise and will soon lose interest. But expose that classical player to good Irish playing for a few months and you'll get a very different result - not least because learning by ear will kick in.
I agree Mr Lazyhound. And sung to great effect by great exponants like Christy Moore. I'd just like to hear Christ Moore sing Ziggy Stardust instead of some old dirge about some long dead toff getting the servant girl up the duff ... again.
Or worse ... you're sat having a grand ol' tune and some fecker with a bodhran who's trying to sound like Christy Moore pipes up with some feckin' old dirge about some long dead toff getting the servant girl up the duff ... again ... and again .... and again.
And if it's not in my cultuarl heritage to appreciate such pish ... I'm glad.
I generally find any 'will you give us a song?' segments at our local sesh very tedious. But it all depends on the singer and the song! Mostly it’s dreadful; sometimes absolutely gorgeous!
But usually if I sense a song section coming up, I take the cue and go for a p*ss/ pint/ fag/ chat.
I can’t stand those who silently and statically sit there (apparently) enthralled by the fabulous sincerity, nostalgia, sentimentality and wonderfulness of some bloke quietly singing some old incomprehensible nonsense. And also those who specialize in ‘professional intensity’ who grit their teeth in a rictus smile as if flown off to a fabled Irish yesteryear pretending to quietly recall how awesome some of this corn is.
And anyway, once the dirge is over, the musicians nearly always curl off an amazing set of tunes to follow!
i don't know if it's just me, but i like 'those long old songs' _ they can make for a nice mixture of English, Scottish and Irish (in the right place, at the right time, tell me when anyone's found it?)
you mentioned 'The Lark in the Morning' rumpole, now that's a grand little song a friend Roger Leach (banjo) use to sing many years ago at our irish session in Dulwich, SE London
'Those rude old tales - man's memory augurs ill
Thus to forget the fragments of old days
Those long old songs - their sweetness haunts me still'
John Clare (1793-1864), English 'Northamptonshire Peasant' Poet
I had a friend who was standing at the bar enjoying a rowdy session and just opened some crisps when a hush fell over the room for a singer
"I felt like I had to sook on ma crisps in case I made a noise" he said
"I felt like I had to sook on ma crisps in case I made a noise"
Excellent... I love it when a pub knows how to be quiet for a few minutes so a song can be heard and enjoyed. I'm sure yur man's crisps didn't go past their expiration date while he waited.
I also think it depends on the session´s character. My experience is that the crowd at a session mostly likes a wee song between 2 hours of tunes (like I do myself).
Normally there could be three parties involved at a good session: the tuners, the singers and the listeners.
At a session should be enough space for everyone´s fun.
But I would recommend to chose a shorter song. It could be hard to finish a song with 10 verses without getting lost in the noise of a bored crowd.
songs in sessions
songs in sessions
i know many of you would prefer to have no songs at all in sessions, and you may be right, but this isnt about the songs vs no songs debate.
if you have a song friendly session,
what songs do youse think are acceptable, or is it a case of anything goes?
i dont agree that anything goes;
i have found myself listening to songs in sessions thinking "what the ******g f*** does this have to do with irish sessions?"
but i cant define where the line is.
whats acceptable?
you might say "irish songs"; but what does that mean?
a stor mo chroi, of course.
galway girl was written by a yank
from clare to here was written by a bloke from croyden.
or songs written by irish writers?
i recently heard a session punter request "teenage kicks".
or you might think "anything recorded by a big irish artist"
would you baulk at "nothing compares to you"? i hope so....
do you have any rules of thumb for this?
-----
a separate issue is that oh so many of these "irish" songs (whilst being splendid in their own way) are totally maudlin and lamenting, and shouldnt be sung at sessions as they really arent conducive to a jolly friday evening at the boozer.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by rumpole
Re: songs in sessions
I think that there's often a hierarchy of songs that values sean nos over Clancy-style stuff, with sappy, hackneyed songs like Danny Boy at the very bottom. I think it also depends on the session you're at.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by jasonb
Re: songs in sessions
If you have songs, why not traditional Irish folk songs to go with traditional Irish dance tunes? Certainly wouldn't want anyone breaking into a U2 song....
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by shanty
Re: songs in sessions
nice header rumpole
it's highly personal, but i'd say anything at all by that Canadian hero Stan Rogers (1949-1983), songwriter and musician
after that, anything goes, including the usual ol' sh*t, but with respect as the people listening are as involved as those
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by lisaniska
Re: songs in sessions
We often have songs if a good singer is present. We are lucky, as no matter what we sing, it doesn't pull the session off track. Generally the most we sing is one song to four or five tune sets. We sing pretty much everything, mostly old Irish American favorites, but sometimes even Beatles songs. We have no problem with the sappy stuff, it wouldn't be overplayed if someone didn't love it! The publican is partial to an old Tom Paxton song, so it gets sung almost on a weekly basis. But we also have weeks where no singing is done at all--it all depends on who shows up.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by AlBrown
Re: songs in sessions
If you must have a song, make it a comic song. Or at least, if it's not comic, nothing cloying or schmaltzy!
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: songs in sessions
Here in SF we have a fella who comes in to sit at the bar and enjoy the tunes who happens to also be a fine singer. He knows we will call for a song whenever he feels like singing, or we might ask him to. The bar goes silent while he sings and erupts in glorious applause when he finishes. If we find out someone in the session is also a singer, we'll call for quiet and ask for a song. It's usually a trad song, but we have no requirements restricting their choices. No one has yet to take advantage of the opportunities and it only adds to the session to have songs included.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: songs in sessions
thanks y'all.
i love the odd song, i think 5 to 1 sounds about right.
after all, those melody players need a cig every now and then.
one thing i didnt say is that whilst it seems ok to sneak in
"lark in the morning" every bleedin session, doing the same songz every week makes me want to boil my own face in acid.
do songs get old quicker than tunes?
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by rumpole
Re: songs in sessions
I think you're right, rumpole, songs probably do get tired quicker than tunes. A lot of "baggage" comes with a song. Tunes seem more anonymous, if you can understand what I'm trying (unsuccesfully) to say.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by shanty
Re: songs in sessions
There's also the whole category of drinking songs, like Whiskey in the Jar. Ugh. Gets the non-playing bar patrons all riled up and can kill the whole ambience of a good session.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by kennedy
Re: songs in sessions
Love good singing. I think the line is easily drawn by the specific session, is it in a bar?(Sing along guitar songs), late at night in the back of the shop?(A good time for a good soloist with a drum) At home in an intimate group?,(anything goes) there's often an appropriate song, at an appropriate moment, I find those moments define themselves, and the good singers often oblige... and I love it.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: songs in sessions
We're insanely lucky to have several wonderful singers at our session. One plays the bodhran, and the other guitar. One does trad songs (and Stan Rogers' classics), while the other is just as likely to break into Joni Mitchell. We love them both. The nice thing is that neither derails the tunes--in spite of how great their voices sound after an hour of toonage, we always manage to segue back into "instrumentals." Frankly, I don't get to hear enough of either of them, even though I'm known to make jokes about "not another feckin song."
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: songs in sessions
We're also very lucky in our Monday night session when it comes to singers. Jimmy Martin from Newfoundland is often in with traditional songs as well as a few that he's composed and the new girl behind the bar, Bríde Cosgrove is an exceptional singer from Kerry and will often give a turn between pints if she's in the mood. We encourage singing at our session and long may it remain so. It's a tiny pub so a bit of hush is not much to ask. We've generally never had any problems with quietening down.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Patkiwi
Re: songs in sessions
If you have to sing a song, at least make it a classic, like Ziggy Stardust or Teenage Kicks or something. None of this folk sh*te
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
To be honest I have no problem with a song at a session as long as the songs don't take priority. If the songs are from members of the session, no problem. Unfortunately it's the outsiders who are usually the trouble. While the rest of musicians take a breather, I as a box player, am expected to accompany said singer usually in a Yale key. On many occasions I've put the box on the floor only to be asked by singers not involved in the session, " Are you not going to play with me then". Sometimes I've gone to the loo and waited until the dirge has finished. Above all, I really detest been trapped and having to sit there while a singer relates with great passion about the exploits of some hero who got killed while trying to plant a bomb. If only I had the guts to stand up and say I'm outta here, but life's too short and I want to enjoy what's left of mine.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Free Reed
Re: songs in sessions
The songs should match the tone or tempo of the session, and, hopefully, the "theme" (Irish Traditional, right?).
When things are rolling, and everyone is glad they are, the last thing to do is to put a damper on a good party. A poorly chosen song can kill the mood, obviously.
As for "nothing cloying or schmaltzy", I would let the time and the mood dictate - at the end of the evening, if the atmosphere dictates, AND IF ENCOURAGED TO DO SO, why not something a bit evocative and wistful?
My twa farthings, FWIW.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Piece
Re: songs in sessions
Yeah Ilig, I draw the line with what I call the "guitar player who has a lot to say". I have zero tolerance with that "folk" stuff. Unless it's Bob Dylan, wasn't he a rock musician?
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: songs in sessions
same as tunes ~ if the person who starts off a song is making a contribution (in a particular session) then it is all crack.
If there is no crack why have a session, regardless of what any board considers acceptable.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: songs in sessions
Just as it would not be appropriate for a musician to drop in and play their party piece from any old genre, I would not appreciate a singer doing the same. I would be more indulgent if a member of the session decided "and now for something completely different".
In general, the songs should reflect the nature of the session.
It is incomprehensible to me why someone who has worked hard for many years to internalize traditional music should revert to songs from their garage band days.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by oldstrings
Re: songs in sessions
Now my imagination is running riot. Visions of The Spanish Inquisition, complete with Biggles and a Mariachi band, bursting into the session.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by oldstrings
Re: songs in sessions
rumpole, seems the purpose of a friday evening boozer may become lost once you begin to impose exceptions. Having said that, I used to met a few of my mates, at Sierra Nevada's Brew Pub, before Tuesday sessions. Then, one night Mark brought Cynthia. Fair play, she had not come before, but we don't have rules. When she began tallying how many beers we were consuming it put a slight damper on the revelry of what is the brew pub. No worries, though. We are all good friends. Cannot remember if she sang any songs at the session that night. She is always welcome to sing any song she likes.
Cheers!
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: songs in sessions
Anthemic pop or rock stuff - or maybe anything else but *not* weedy singer-songwriter nappy-fill about relationships and b*ll*cks extruded in a foul mid-Atlantic whinge.
Which is, of course, what the Meeja think is what folk is, judging by most of the reviews.
# Posted on October 31st 2009 by nicholas
Re: songs in sessions
"It is incomprehensible to me why someone who has worked hard for many years to internalize traditional music should revert to songs from their garage band days."
I was listening to an interview with Jerry Douglas the other day. He was saying about how singers will always have the lime light over instrumentalists. That's just the way it is. But that words get in the way of music. And that by playing an instrument that can laugh and cry, he can play music with all the emotions of a song,
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
'by playing an instrument that can laugh and cry, he can play music with all the emotions of a song.'
But do non musicians hear it? One of the things I love about this music is how the mood, or mode, can change on just one note of the melody. Without the use of a chord. Of course people get the overblown sadness of minor chords or the anguished wailing of a blues bend but do they " hear" the more subtle changes in Irish tunes? To many listeners (and even a few bodhran players I know) all the tunes sound the same!?!
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by shanty
Re: songs in sessions
I'd say they do, shanty, perhaps subconsciously, but they do. We're just more attuned to those workings of our subconsciousness because we do this all the time.
What the heck am I on about now?
We have all sorts of songs, we try to keep a lid on. I have to play sergeant at arms occasionally because the singers will sometimes try to follow one song with another. NIEN! NICHT ZU VIEL SINGEND! (whack whack)
The biggest beef about songs at sessions is that usually there's one person involved with singing the song, which leaves everyone else out. It's a communal tune playing experience, basically, so songs by their nature exclude that.
Unless you get that awful situation where someone sings a well known song, and all these bored musicians jump on it, flailing away at the melody, making a giant muddy noise and drowning out the singer's voice, which is WORSE than sitting through a song.
I don't care what you sing, as long as it's acoustic. For giggles I sometimes sing "Hey Hey, What Can I Say?" by Led Zeppelin while I accompany myself on a banjo. It sounds quite amusing squeezed in between a few sets of reels.
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: songs in sessions
Our session is a tunes session, but we have some ocassional visitors or more or less regulars that sing. I like having some songs over the course of the night, with about three or four feeling about right (more or less one an hour).
Some of our other regulars will sing if in the mood. I like hearing certain party pieces that I associate with particular friends.
- chris
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: songs in sessions
"But do non musicians hear it?" Who gives a feck?
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
The other thing is, me and my mates sit and play largely Irish diddley tunes because we think they are the best tunes (and the way they are played - same thing) in the world. We play tunes from elsewhere as well, Finland, Scotland, Spain, etc, but not many. The point being, we don't play Irish tunes out of any sort of emotional or cultural attachment to them (even though some of us may have emotional and/or cultural attachments to them) because we think they are the best.
The same should go with songs. The traditional songs are just bloody awful. You'll never ever find one any where near as good as Ziggy Stardust. No where near.
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
depends on whether or not the so-called non musician is listening. I can think of a few people who have very good ears, yet never touch a musical instrument.
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: songs in sessions
Michael, are you saying there are no good Irish singers?
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: songs in sessions
A lot of traditional songs are bloody awful, but certainly not all of them IMO!
# Posted on November 1st 2009 by nicholas
Re: songs in sessions
There are lots of good Irish singers, of course there are. But that's not relevant to Irish songs being rubbish
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
That's quite a statement. There are good Irish singers, yet ~ there are no good Irish songs.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: songs in sessions
"The biggest beef about songs at sessions is that usually there's one person involved with singing the song, which leaves everyone else out.". Not when it's An Chéad Mháirt de Fhómhair in a Rann na Feirste pub or Raghad-sa 's mo Cheataí in Corca Dhuibhne.
"we don't play Irish tunes out of any sort of emotional or cultural attachment to them". Sure I have a good number of tunes that I play simply because I like them, but for the vast majority the emotional or cultural attachment is as, if not more, important than the melody.
Isn't it the link to the locality, to the community, that distinguishes the music, whether it be song or dance, as trad?
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: songs in sessions
If your emotional or cultural attachment to the melody is more important than the melody itself then that's fine of course. For me it's not. We all have different reasons to play these tunes and I respect those reasons.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
'Emotional or cultural attachment' to tunes, in my part of the world, = DAG TIME !!
One can but join in heartily, sham death, or both.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by nicholas
Re: songs in sessions
llig leahcim sounds like you are a bloody idgit! how can you say that traditional songs are bloody aweful???? in the same breath you say that you play irish trad because it is the best.....sounds like you really dont know what the hell you are talking about and i bet your music sounds like it too!
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by irishmuso
Re: songs in sessions
You could be right. I wouldn't be the judge of that.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
Good man, llig, good man!
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Sweeney Astray
Re: songs in sessions
I sing paul brady and some bothy band stuff in sessions and it goes down a treat
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by bjd
Re: songs in sessions
Even apparently "awful" music (vocal or instrumental) can be good when sung or played by someone who knows what they're doing and understand the music.
A simple example - give the dots of a typical Irish reel or polka to a classical player who has never heard Irish music (such people are around). There's a chance that they'll treat it is as little more than a fingering exercise and will soon lose interest. But expose that classical player to good Irish playing for a few months and you'll get a very different result - not least because learning by ear will kick in.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: songs in sessions
"I sing paul brady and some bothy band stuff in sessions and it goes down a treat"
Even if you say so yourself!
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: songs in sessions
I agree Mr Lazyhound. And sung to great effect by great exponants like Christy Moore. I'd just like to hear Christ Moore sing Ziggy Stardust instead of some old dirge about some long dead toff getting the servant girl up the duff ... again.
Or worse ... you're sat having a grand ol' tune and some fecker with a bodhran who's trying to sound like Christy Moore pipes up with some feckin' old dirge about some long dead toff getting the servant girl up the duff ... again ... and again .... and again.
And if it's not in my cultuarl heritage to appreciate such pish ... I'm glad.
(tee hee)
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: songs in sessions
Llig - you are like the Karl Pilkington of the folk music world!
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: songs in sessions
I generally find any 'will you give us a song?' segments at our local sesh very tedious. But it all depends on the singer and the song! Mostly it’s dreadful; sometimes absolutely gorgeous!
But usually if I sense a song section coming up, I take the cue and go for a p*ss/ pint/ fag/ chat.
I can’t stand those who silently and statically sit there (apparently) enthralled by the fabulous sincerity, nostalgia, sentimentality and wonderfulness of some bloke quietly singing some old incomprehensible nonsense. And also those who specialize in ‘professional intensity’ who grit their teeth in a rictus smile as if flown off to a fabled Irish yesteryear pretending to quietly recall how awesome some of this corn is.
And anyway, once the dirge is over, the musicians nearly always curl off an amazing set of tunes to follow!
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by yhaalhouse
Re: songs in sessions
i don't know if it's just me, but i like 'those long old songs' _ they can make for a nice mixture of English, Scottish and Irish (in the right place, at the right time, tell me when anyone's found it?)
you mentioned 'The Lark in the Morning' rumpole, now that's a grand little song a friend Roger Leach (banjo) use to sing many years ago at our irish session in Dulwich, SE London
'Those rude old tales - man's memory augurs ill
Thus to forget the fragments of old days
Those long old songs - their sweetness haunts me still'
John Clare (1793-1864), English 'Northamptonshire Peasant' Poet
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by lisaniska
Re: songs in sessions
Llig, I do not take you to be a fool. However, I am a fool for taking the time to read the above comments. Cheers.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: songs in sessions
I had a friend who was standing at the bar enjoying a rowdy session and just opened some crisps when a hush fell over the room for a singer
"I felt like I had to sook on ma crisps in case I made a noise" he said
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Bren
Re: songs in sessions
Depending on the singer and the song I might feel inclined to munch in time with the backing
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: songs in sessions
"I felt like I had to sook on ma crisps in case I made a noise"
Excellent... I love it when a pub knows how to be quiet for a few minutes so a song can be heard and enjoyed. I'm sure yur man's crisps didn't go past their expiration date while he waited.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: songs in sessions
That is cool, maybe he can teach the other musicians how to do that.
# Posted on November 2nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: songs in sessions
thanks for your input.
it seems there is no rule other than go with the flow.
intuition again.......
# Posted on November 6th 2009 by rumpole
Re: songs in sessions
I also think it depends on the session´s character. My experience is that the crowd at a session mostly likes a wee song between 2 hours of tunes (like I do myself).
Normally there could be three parties involved at a good session: the tuners, the singers and the listeners.
At a session should be enough space for everyone´s fun.
But I would recommend to chose a shorter song. It could be hard to finish a song with 10 verses without getting lost in the noise of a bored crowd.
Tom
# Posted on November 23rd 2009 by Tom Bloch