Do you use a shoulder rest? That is one thing that can help enormously as you are not gripping the fiddle so much in that area. The other thing as mentioned is tension, you would need to concentrate on relaxing while playing.
I actually feel that using a shoulder rest cause more pain and tension that playing without one. But I guess that has been debated to death... Anyway, everyone's different, some prefer to play with, some without.
You should try to relax as much as possible of course, but sometimes even that won't help if you play a lot. Try to do some stretching exercises for you shoulder - and take some breaks if you're playing for several hours...
Here's a good stretching exercise (I hope you understand my attempt to describe it...):
1) Sit on the floor, with your legs straight in front of you (so you make an L shape)
2) Take your right hand and grab your left foot from the outside (bend your legs as necessary)
3) Streeetch
4) Do the same thing with your left hand on your right foot.
best to see a physio or neuromuscular therapist, and they'll strip out the knots etc in the muscles and give u the best stretches/exercises you'll need to keep on top of the problem.
It'll probably always be an issue (like if u were a long-distance runner, you'd have issues with your legs...), and especially if you started playing in adulthood - so it's jut a matter of (correct) stretching before, during and after practice and taking breaks as someone already mentioned.
No idea where you are, but if by chance you're near Dublin/Kildare, these guys are very good....
No one has mentioned what could very well be the source of the problem - poor posture (by which I mean the way in which the fiddle is held), so I suggest the very first step is to have this checked out by an experienced teacher. Basically, the fiddle should not be supported by the shoulder, but should rest on the collar bone, and the left arm should have complete freedom of movement. The movement of the left arm should have no effect on the hold of the fiddle.
Whether the player uses a shoulder rest (a term which I believe is a misnomer in view of what I've said above) is largely a personal matter. The function of the shoulder rest is to stabilise the fiddle, not to support it, which is a more important issue when you're playing away from the first position in other kinds of music. I am of the opinion that a well-fitting chin rest is far more important for playing than is a shoulder rest - witness film clips of violinist/fiddlers in the pre-shoulder rest era before the 1950s.
I'll conclude by mentioning an excellent violinist I knew some years ago He was in his 70s and had been playing all his life with his shoulder supporting the fiddle, using a shoulder rest, and with his head tilted over to the left onto the chin rest. In the years when I knew him he walked with a permanently raised left shoulder and with his head permanently tilted to the left due to shortened ligaments in one side of his neck due to shortened ligaments in one side of his neck.
I used to have that, I went to a chiropractor and even played a couple tunes for him so he could oberve my body posture. He really loved the tunes... made his day, despite the fact that he really seemed to enjoy the experience it did me precious little good. I have another friend who studies Alexander technique and even encorporates it with her lessons (she teaches Irish fiddle), yet she still seems to be in an endless physiological bargaining process herself.
What eventually worked: I always hold my phone against my right ear now, home or at work, so that my right side muscle groups can counter the left. And as lazyhound recommended above I found an excellent teacher, who has taught me relaxation techniques, and for the most part the tension is gone now when I play... I haven't gone to see the Irish tune loving Chiropractor in over 2 years.
Its really important btw to find a solution to your physical kinks, so keep searching for the answer, if the pain and tension becomes chronic, you are begging for arthritic changes etc... which would ruin the best thing ever! Playing tunes! So keep looking for answers.
more from me... I used to get a "kink" if I played w/o my shoulder rest at all.... but since I have "relaxed" it doesnt matter if I forget the shoulder rest.... that said I prefer it, it does help balance the fiddle, I pretty much have to stay out of any tunes that aren't "easy" if I do forget it. More beer and chit chat... (and eyebrows, and glares, and shut up and plays) but ah well!
I have the same experience as Sandy. I occasionally practice without
the shoulder rest just to "keep it real". Without the shoulder rest you
can't tune up with double stops - that's one of the main reasons I use it.
Also the fiddle feels more stable.
You cannot hunch up your shoulder or press down with your chin.
Otherwise you are doomed to wasting a lot time in doctor's waiting rooms
pouring your cash into the health system.
Hup, you can indeed tune up using double stops without using a shoulder rest. It just needs a little downward chin pressure during the tuning process (it's allowed!). When double-stop tuning from the pegs it is important to have the flats at the ends of the pegs at just the right angle, otherwise you can get into uncomfortable finger contortions trying to turn them. I find that if, when holding the fiddle in the normal playing position, I can see the flat at the end of a peg full-on, then that is about right. I rarely bother with tuning the A from the peg (unless it's gut); a micrometer adjuster is more convenient because of the higher tension in that string.
Lazyhound - whenever I've tried doing that - it feels like it's
about to slip away and crash to the floor.
Also I have a question about the peg positions. How do you
get them into that position? It seems like pot luck - what
orientation the pegs are in. You wind the strings on until
they're up to pitch. Then, as they stretch out, you gradually
take up the slack. How can you control the position?
Hup, for me it's trial and error. What works sometimes with some brands of strings is to wind the string with only a small amount projecting from the hole - just enough to get a grip on with a pair of tweezers. I try to wind the string so that there are no gaps between the windings, and of course the last winding should never contact the inside of the peg box. Something I always do with a new string is to rub a small amount rosin from the bow onto the wound part of the string. This ensures that the string is not going to slip on the peg and helps it to keep up to tune quicker. Let the string's tuning settle and look at the final orientation of the peg.
Sometimes I strike lucky and the peg is in the right orientation first time. If it isn't then I slacken off the string and unwind it sufficiently to pull a small length through the peg hole with tweezers - say 0.5 cm. Then I rewind the string up to pitch, making sure that the windings are together (this is for consistency) and re-inspect the peg orientation which may hopefully be closer to what you want. Repeat the procedure as necessary. You should never need to pull out a total of string length more than about 3 times (or pi) the diameter of the peg, for then the peg will have rotated to its initial orientation and you'll be back where you started.
It doesn't take long to get a result and then you'll have a good idea by experience of how much free length of string to have leaving the peg hole next time you fit a new string, especially if it's the same brand as the old one.
As I said in my previous post, I'm talking about the G and D strings which are easy to peg tune. For me the A is always more difficult to tune accurately because of its higher tension, and the obvious thing is always to use a micrometer adjuster.
If there's a better and quicker way of getting that optimum peg orientation I'd very much like to know - I didn't chose my membership name at random!
Hup, your first comment in your last post - I think it's possible that you may not be using quite the right chin rest for the job of playing without a shoulder rest (and peg tuning the fiddle). Have a look at the chin rest's profile. The kind that is most effective has the sort of concave curvature that make's it quite difficult to lose control of the fiddle or even to feel that it could happen. A higher chin rest may help - this will enable the chin to rest gently on the rest without being forced into it by dropping the head. The aim is to be able to move the head around freely and without strain (looking at other people, for example) while keeping complete control of the instrument.
You will get used to the pegs after a while. I installed a tailpiece with fine tuners but I only really use them when tuning with a group on the A and sometimes for the E string. I find I am so used to the pegs that I may change back to my original tailpiece at some point.
I tried the double stop tuning without a shoulder rest this morning and was
able to do it for the first time. The fiddle sort of hangs there while
you're doing it - I leaned over a desk while trying this - a bit like bungy
jumping - quite an adrenalin rush.
In one of Todd Ehle's YouTube videos he shows how to tune using the pegs.
In practice it's next to impossible to drop the fiddle when it's held under the chin and being played or tuned by the left hand - peg tuning, after all, is only a specialised kind of playing.
You could try rubbing a little "Tiger Balm" or other chinese type rub with menthol and camphor in it before playing. I find it stops me tensing up the muscles and acts like "warm-up" exercises.
After my post "Fiddler's Elbow" I'm reading through the links and some are really interesting for this type of problem. I'm experimenting with chinrest heights and position for the moment and it does seem to make a difference. I thought part of my problem was rotor cuff but its myofascial so be careful which is tricky to master. Good luck
“I am of the opinion that a well-fitting chin rest is far more important for playing than is a shoulder rest.”
Quite right! Getting a decent chin rest is the most important thing. I have played fiddle for about 25 years and have never used a shoulder rest, and have never experienced neck, back or shoulder pain. I know several people who use shoulder rests and still have bad posture, and often have severe neck and shoulder pain. Get a decent chin rest and ditch the shoulder rest completely. The best Irish fiddlers never used a shoulder rest, and many of the best fiddlers I knew didn’t rely much on the chin rest either, except perhaps when playing in higher positions. The recent shoulder rest fad is a latest dogma in fiddle teaching here, and it typically doesn’t improve posture or playing. More on shoulder rests and why to avoid them, here: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15761
I’ve said this before, but it’s relevant here:
Having a good balance between the right and left sides of the body is important. If there’s tension in the left arm there will usually be tension in the right. And if the fingers of the left hand are tense it’s nearly impossible not to be tense in the right fingers. If the angle the fiddle is held to the side (from the centre) is too great or too small the left arm will have to accommodate for it and tension will arise. (30% to the left is near optimal for me.) Likewise, how the fiddle itself is angled makes a difference. Tension caused in the left shoulder by a shoulder-rest can also result in the right shoulder compensating and becoming tense. Practicing standing rather than seated is a good idea for sorting out problems with posture. Without a shoulder-rest and the fiddle being held in place with the chin rest, according to Yehudi Menuhin, when we take the left hand away the violin should droop by nearly 45 degrees. Most people apply too much pressure with the jaw, and (when coupled with the shoulder-rest) this is maybe why so many of my classical violinist friends have serious muscular problems.
An excellent book on good physical posture is: “The Simplicity of Playing the Violin”, by Herbert Whone. It’s out of print but it’s easy to get a second-hand copy (on Amazon for example). Its absolutely invaluable. I’ve never really suffered any muscle pain from fiddle playing, but it’s improved my posture a lot.
If I try to play without a shoulder rest, there is a gap of at least one inch between my chin and the chin rest. What am I supposed to do with that? I’ve never seen a chin rest tall enough to fill that gap.
Id like to get one, but how to choose a size? Ive been trying for years all sorts of chin/shoulder rests, for different sized fiddles. Im gonna try a SAS , they look great. Do you have one whistleblower?
Ionannas,
I don’t actually own an SAS chin-rest, though they are pleasing to the eye. A friend of mine has one and I have tried it. It’s quite comfortable, and you can adjust the chin-rest’s angle. I use different lowish chin-rests on various fiddles, but they all have in common a fairly deep dip to the edge which gives good purchase to the jaw. (Broadly I have two kinds, they look roughly like what’s known as the Dresden design and a pretty flat Guarneri design chin-rest.) I found the SAS chin-rest a little higher than I’m used to; though to be honest I don’t know whether it was one of the higher models. They are a little pricey but they may be well worth the money. If you go for one, let us know how it works out!
Hey wow didnt expect that amount of replies glad to know its not just me i was gonna try shoulder rest for a while and if it doesnt help seek a physio thanks for all the comments folks
I have one in the post, and a berber model , both to try. I use a few different shoulder rest with thin chin rests. but I like to keep trying for the best fit I can find. i like the way the SAS tilts.. should be interesting. cheers
A further thought or two on shoulder rests ...
The fiddle being supported at one end by the collar bone (possibly assisted by the chin) and at the other by the hand is a stable position, and it's very rare for anything to go wrong and the fiddle to fall.
If you bring a shoulder rest into the picture, there is the possibility of a number of things happening,
1) Part of the shoulder rest may part company from the lower edge of the fiddle, resulting in some instability and a hiatus in the playing as the player readjusts the device; I've seen this happen innumerable times in amateur orchestras - and in sessions. Solution - if you must use a shoulder rest, then get one that's fool-proof.
2) The shoulder rest is used to raise the fiddle instead of "stabilising it", particular if the player has a long neck, and the fiddle is now no longer be in contact with the collar bone. If event (1) should happen then a disaster is imminent because then the fiddle very suddenly and unexpectedly has no support at one end, and where it then goes is anyone's guess. I saw it happen once, and the fall caused the bridge to break. The solution is obvious - and also see http://www.violinistinbalance.nl/changewillemijn.htm mentioned above.
3) A shoulder rest causes the fiddle to be held fixed in one position, and this stops the natural tendency of a freely held fiddle to move around in response to the playing - a little to one side or the other, a little up or down - all of which helps relaxed playing.
4) If a shoulder rest prevents the fiddle from being in good contact with the collar bone this is believed by some to adversely affect the sound because the thoracic cavity is no able to act as a resonator. It certainly reduces the player's ability to feel the vibration of the instrument which you can when it is in contact with the collar bone, something which to my mind is all part of playing the instrument.
A final thought: one (some might think the only) legitimate reason for a shoulder rest is to protect the back of the fiddle when you put it down on the table during a session.
Fiddlers shoulder???
Fiddlers shoulder???
Hey was wondering do any other fiddlers get a sore shoulder from playin think its my rotator cuff can be very sore what is best thing to do??
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by rysands
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
take a break, once you've tensed up that much there is no undoing it unless you stop playing for a while
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Do you use a shoulder rest? That is one thing that can help enormously as you are not gripping the fiddle so much in that area. The other thing as mentioned is tension, you would need to concentrate on relaxing while playing.
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Torgwen
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Which shoulder?
(And do you play right- or left-handed?)
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by meself
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
I actually feel that using a shoulder rest cause more pain and tension that playing without one. But I guess that has been debated to death... Anyway, everyone's different, some prefer to play with, some without.
You should try to relax as much as possible of course, but sometimes even that won't help if you play a lot. Try to do some stretching exercises for you shoulder - and take some breaks if you're playing for several hours...
Here's a good stretching exercise (I hope you understand my attempt to describe it...):
1) Sit on the floor, with your legs straight in front of you (so you make an L shape)
2) Take your right hand and grab your left foot from the outside (bend your legs as necessary)
3) Streeetch
4) Do the same thing with your left hand on your right foot.
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Pontus Adefjord
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
best to see a physio or neuromuscular therapist, and they'll strip out the knots etc in the muscles and give u the best stretches/exercises you'll need to keep on top of the problem.
It'll probably always be an issue (like if u were a long-distance runner, you'd have issues with your legs...), and especially if you started playing in adulthood - so it's jut a matter of (correct) stretching before, during and after practice and taking breaks as someone already mentioned.
No idea where you are, but if by chance you're near Dublin/Kildare, these guys are very good....
http://icimmedics.com/therapies/neuromuscular-therapy/
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by andy69
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
No one has mentioned what could very well be the source of the problem - poor posture (by which I mean the way in which the fiddle is held), so I suggest the very first step is to have this checked out by an experienced teacher. Basically, the fiddle should not be supported by the shoulder, but should rest on the collar bone, and the left arm should have complete freedom of movement. The movement of the left arm should have no effect on the hold of the fiddle.
Whether the player uses a shoulder rest (a term which I believe is a misnomer in view of what I've said above) is largely a personal matter. The function of the shoulder rest is to stabilise the fiddle, not to support it, which is a more important issue when you're playing away from the first position in other kinds of music. I am of the opinion that a well-fitting chin rest is far more important for playing than is a shoulder rest - witness film clips of violinist/fiddlers in the pre-shoulder rest era before the 1950s.
I'll conclude by mentioning an excellent violinist I knew some years ago He was in his 70s and had been playing all his life with his shoulder supporting the fiddle, using a shoulder rest, and with his head tilted over to the left onto the chin rest. In the years when I knew him he walked with a permanently raised left shoulder and with his head permanently tilted to the left due to shortened ligaments in one side of his neck due to shortened ligaments in one side of his neck.
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
I'll blame the unfamiliar keyboard I'm currently using in Belgium for the repetition in that last sentence!
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
I used to have that, I went to a chiropractor and even played a couple tunes for him so he could oberve my body posture. He really loved the tunes... made his day, despite the fact that he really seemed to enjoy the experience it did me precious little good. I have another friend who studies Alexander technique and even encorporates it with her lessons (she teaches Irish fiddle), yet she still seems to be in an endless physiological bargaining process herself.
What eventually worked: I always hold my phone against my right ear now, home or at work, so that my right side muscle groups can counter the left. And as lazyhound recommended above I found an excellent teacher, who has taught me relaxation techniques, and for the most part the tension is gone now when I play... I haven't gone to see the Irish tune loving Chiropractor in over 2 years.
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Its really important btw to find a solution to your physical kinks, so keep searching for the answer, if the pain and tension becomes chronic, you are begging for arthritic changes etc... which would ruin the best thing ever! Playing tunes! So keep looking for answers.
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
more from me... I used to get a "kink" if I played w/o my shoulder rest at all.... but since I have "relaxed" it doesnt matter if I forget the shoulder rest.... that said I prefer it, it does help balance the fiddle, I pretty much have to stay out of any tunes that aren't "easy" if I do forget it. More beer and chit chat... (and eyebrows, and glares, and shut up and plays) but ah well!
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
I have the same experience as Sandy. I occasionally practice without
the shoulder rest just to "keep it real". Without the shoulder rest you
can't tune up with double stops - that's one of the main reasons I use it.
Also the fiddle feels more stable.
You cannot hunch up your shoulder or press down with your chin.
Otherwise you are doomed to wasting a lot time in doctor's waiting rooms
pouring your cash into the health system.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Hup
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Hup, you can indeed tune up using double stops without using a shoulder rest. It just needs a little downward chin pressure during the tuning process (it's allowed!). When double-stop tuning from the pegs it is important to have the flats at the ends of the pegs at just the right angle, otherwise you can get into uncomfortable finger contortions trying to turn them. I find that if, when holding the fiddle in the normal playing position, I can see the flat at the end of a peg full-on, then that is about right. I rarely bother with tuning the A from the peg (unless it's gut); a micrometer adjuster is more convenient because of the higher tension in that string.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Lazyhound - whenever I've tried doing that - it feels like it's
about to slip away and crash to the floor.
Also I have a question about the peg positions. How do you
get them into that position? It seems like pot luck - what
orientation the pegs are in. You wind the strings on until
they're up to pitch. Then, as they stretch out, you gradually
take up the slack. How can you control the position?
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Hup
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Hup, for me it's trial and error. What works sometimes with some brands of strings is to wind the string with only a small amount projecting from the hole - just enough to get a grip on with a pair of tweezers. I try to wind the string so that there are no gaps between the windings, and of course the last winding should never contact the inside of the peg box. Something I always do with a new string is to rub a small amount rosin from the bow onto the wound part of the string. This ensures that the string is not going to slip on the peg and helps it to keep up to tune quicker. Let the string's tuning settle and look at the final orientation of the peg.
Sometimes I strike lucky and the peg is in the right orientation first time. If it isn't then I slacken off the string and unwind it sufficiently to pull a small length through the peg hole with tweezers - say 0.5 cm. Then I rewind the string up to pitch, making sure that the windings are together (this is for consistency) and re-inspect the peg orientation which may hopefully be closer to what you want. Repeat the procedure as necessary. You should never need to pull out a total of string length more than about 3 times (or pi) the diameter of the peg, for then the peg will have rotated to its initial orientation and you'll be back where you started.
It doesn't take long to get a result and then you'll have a good idea by experience of how much free length of string to have leaving the peg hole next time you fit a new string, especially if it's the same brand as the old one.
As I said in my previous post, I'm talking about the G and D strings which are easy to peg tune. For me the A is always more difficult to tune accurately because of its higher tension, and the obvious thing is always to use a micrometer adjuster.
If there's a better and quicker way of getting that optimum peg orientation I'd very much like to know - I didn't chose my membership name at random!
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Hup, your first comment in your last post - I think it's possible that you may not be using quite the right chin rest for the job of playing without a shoulder rest (and peg tuning the fiddle). Have a look at the chin rest's profile. The kind that is most effective has the sort of concave curvature that make's it quite difficult to lose control of the fiddle or even to feel that it could happen. A higher chin rest may help - this will enable the chin to rest gently on the rest without being forced into it by dropping the head. The aim is to be able to move the head around freely and without strain (looking at other people, for example) while keeping complete control of the instrument.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
You will get used to the pegs after a while. I installed a tailpiece with fine tuners but I only really use them when tuning with a group on the A and sometimes for the E string. I find I am so used to the pegs that I may change back to my original tailpiece at some point.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
I tried the double stop tuning without a shoulder rest this morning and was
able to do it for the first time. The fiddle sort of hangs there while
you're doing it - I leaned over a desk while trying this - a bit like bungy
jumping - quite an adrenalin rush.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Hup
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
In one of Todd Ehle's YouTube videos he shows how to tune using the pegs.
In practice it's next to impossible to drop the fiddle when it's held under the chin and being played or tuned by the left hand - peg tuning, after all, is only a specialised kind of playing.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
You could try rubbing a little "Tiger Balm" or other chinese type rub with menthol and camphor in it before playing. I find it stops me tensing up the muscles and acts like "warm-up" exercises.
After my post "Fiddler's Elbow" I'm reading through the links and some are really interesting for this type of problem. I'm experimenting with chinrest heights and position for the moment and it does seem to make a difference. I thought part of my problem was rotor cuff but its myofascial so be careful which is tricky to master. Good luck
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Bev in Brittany
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
“I am of the opinion that a well-fitting chin rest is far more important for playing than is a shoulder rest.”
Quite right! Getting a decent chin rest is the most important thing. I have played fiddle for about 25 years and have never used a shoulder rest, and have never experienced neck, back or shoulder pain. I know several people who use shoulder rests and still have bad posture, and often have severe neck and shoulder pain. Get a decent chin rest and ditch the shoulder rest completely. The best Irish fiddlers never used a shoulder rest, and many of the best fiddlers I knew didn’t rely much on the chin rest either, except perhaps when playing in higher positions. The recent shoulder rest fad is a latest dogma in fiddle teaching here, and it typically doesn’t improve posture or playing. More on shoulder rests and why to avoid them, here: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15761
I’ve said this before, but it’s relevant here:
Having a good balance between the right and left sides of the body is important. If there’s tension in the left arm there will usually be tension in the right. And if the fingers of the left hand are tense it’s nearly impossible not to be tense in the right fingers. If the angle the fiddle is held to the side (from the centre) is too great or too small the left arm will have to accommodate for it and tension will arise. (30% to the left is near optimal for me.) Likewise, how the fiddle itself is angled makes a difference. Tension caused in the left shoulder by a shoulder-rest can also result in the right shoulder compensating and becoming tense. Practicing standing rather than seated is a good idea for sorting out problems with posture. Without a shoulder-rest and the fiddle being held in place with the chin rest, according to Yehudi Menuhin, when we take the left hand away the violin should droop by nearly 45 degrees. Most people apply too much pressure with the jaw, and (when coupled with the shoulder-rest) this is maybe why so many of my classical violinist friends have serious muscular problems.
An excellent book on good physical posture is: “The Simplicity of Playing the Violin”, by Herbert Whone. It’s out of print but it’s easy to get a second-hand copy (on Amazon for example). Its absolutely invaluable. I’ve never really suffered any muscle pain from fiddle playing, but it’s improved my posture a lot.
And just in case; on why you should avoid chiropractors like the plague (one that can wreck your back)! (and also some stuff on why a shoulder rest is not a quick fix.) —
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/20457/comments#comment427708
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by klhsadhfahslkdfhsalk
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
If I try to play without a shoulder rest, there is a gap of at least one inch between my chin and the chin rest. What am I supposed to do with that? I’ve never seen a chin rest tall enough to fill that gap.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Check out this chin rest!!
http://www.violinistinbalance.nl/changewillemijn.htm
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Wow, that looks like the thing! Thanks!
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Fiddlers shoulder??? Chin Rest
The SAS "Viva La Musica" chin rest comes in various heights. https://www.viva-sas.com/chin_about.htm
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by klhsadhfahslkdfhsalk
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Id like to get one, but how to choose a size? Ive been trying for years all sorts of chin/shoulder rests, for different sized fiddles. Im gonna try a SAS , they look great. Do you have one whistleblower?
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Lazyhound - I was using the fine tuners, not the pegs - so the fiddle
was drooping as Menuhin / whistleblower described
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Hup
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Anyway, back to civilization,
Ionannas,
I don’t actually own an SAS chin-rest, though they are pleasing to the eye. A friend of mine has one and I have tried it. It’s quite comfortable, and you can adjust the chin-rest’s angle. I use different lowish chin-rests on various fiddles, but they all have in common a fairly deep dip to the edge which gives good purchase to the jaw. (Broadly I have two kinds, they look roughly like what’s known as the Dresden design and a pretty flat Guarneri design chin-rest.) I found the SAS chin-rest a little higher than I’m used to; though to be honest I don’t know whether it was one of the higher models. They are a little pricey but they may be well worth the money. If you go for one, let us know how it works out!
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by klhsadhfahslkdfhsalk
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
Hey wow didnt expect that amount of replies glad to know its not just me i was gonna try shoulder rest for a while and if it doesnt help seek a physio thanks for all the comments folks
Ryanne Sands Newry Co Down
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by rysands
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
I have one in the post, and a berber model , both to try. I use a few different shoulder rest with thin chin rests. but I like to keep trying for the best fit I can find. i like the way the SAS tilts.. should be interesting. cheers
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
A further thought or two on shoulder rests ...
The fiddle being supported at one end by the collar bone (possibly assisted by the chin) and at the other by the hand is a stable position, and it's very rare for anything to go wrong and the fiddle to fall.
If you bring a shoulder rest into the picture, there is the possibility of a number of things happening,
1) Part of the shoulder rest may part company from the lower edge of the fiddle, resulting in some instability and a hiatus in the playing as the player readjusts the device; I've seen this happen innumerable times in amateur orchestras - and in sessions. Solution - if you must use a shoulder rest, then get one that's fool-proof.
2) The shoulder rest is used to raise the fiddle instead of "stabilising it", particular if the player has a long neck, and the fiddle is now no longer be in contact with the collar bone. If event (1) should happen then a disaster is imminent because then the fiddle very suddenly and unexpectedly has no support at one end, and where it then goes is anyone's guess. I saw it happen once, and the fall caused the bridge to break. The solution is obvious - and also see http://www.violinistinbalance.nl/changewillemijn.htm mentioned above.
3) A shoulder rest causes the fiddle to be held fixed in one position, and this stops the natural tendency of a freely held fiddle to move around in response to the playing - a little to one side or the other, a little up or down - all of which helps relaxed playing.
4) If a shoulder rest prevents the fiddle from being in good contact with the collar bone this is believed by some to adversely affect the sound because the thoracic cavity is no able to act as a resonator. It certainly reduces the player's ability to feel the vibration of the instrument which you can when it is in contact with the collar bone, something which to my mind is all part of playing the instrument.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddlers shoulder???
A final thought: one (some might think the only) legitimate reason for a shoulder rest is to protect the back of the fiddle when you put it down on the table during a session.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Trevor Jennings