Hi all.
Before i begin, i just want to point out that i play flute and tin whistle, and have all ornamentation sorted.
I would like basically for someone to post information and hints that could help me with playing the uilleann pipes. My problems are mainly reaching high notes, and maintaining them when i reach the upper octave.
I have the lower octave seen to, its just D' and up.
I am aware that not everything can simply be explained online, but i would really appreciate any advice that can be given.
Airtightness very often the solution to problems like this. Make certain your valves are all airtight and that your joints have enough thread wrapping on them. An airtight set of pipes is an easy set of pipes to play, reeds willing.
Make sure your reed is set up properly. See an expert piper or pipemaker for advice on adjusting your reed. 2nd octave difficulties could be caused by a reed that is too closed (it closes completely under pressure) or too open (it will play the second octave, but only grudgingly and with frequent drops). A good piper or pipemaker can show you how to adjust the reed as needed.
And study the venting technique, which is glissing up to those high notes from a lower note. Sometimes it's necessary to gliss from a g in order to hit a high b. Start on g and lift your ring and middle fingers of your top hand off the chanter
Be aware that a considerable increase in pressure is usually needed to get the upper octave, the more so the higher you go. You don't have the luxury of tightening your embouchure, so the reed needs to be set vibrating differently. Make sure the chanter is properly sealed, all holes closed, before quickly raising the necessary finger(s). Once you are in the upper octave, a steady pressure should maintain it, but the slightest leak or drop in pressure, and the reed will return to the lower octave, and the chanter must be closed again before you can go back up. Increasing the pressure alone will not get you there. As SUS says, the higher notes, b and above, are usually got by sounding g or a and running up quickly from there. Practise doing octave jumps, Ee, Ff, Gg etc, To get the hang of the change in pressure.
You might also want to make sure you're not using too hard of a reed. On notes above second octave F or G, you might need to slide into them from note directly below. Are there any pipers in your area? If not, you should check out the uilleann pipe forum at www.chiffboard.mati.ca .. Search the archives.
The sorts of issues new uilleann players have trouble with, like medical problems, are best diagnosed in person. When a student has any kind of chanter issue I usually need to play their chanter myself to find out if the problem is with the chanter/reed, or if the problem is something the student is doing.
I disagree with the statement above that "a considerable increase of pressure is usually needed to get the upper octave".
Chanters/reeds that are working well have a certain range, from G in the low octave to F# in the upper octave, that use about the same pressure. Beginners often get into the bad habit of using too little pressure in the low octave and too much pressure in the high octave, which when they begin using the drones is revealed.
In any case you should be able to go from A or B in the low octave to E or F# in the upper octave at about the same pressure. Then a tad more pressure is needed for high G (which many pipers play with only the index finger off, the "one finger G").
Then noticeably more pressure is needed for high A, and even more for high B. So, on many chanters, playing in the upper octave from F# to G to A to B will entail a bit of increase of pressure for each note.
Likewise in the low register a bit less pressure is often used for low F# and low E or they will break to the upper octave.
People not familiar with the uilleann pipes imagine that one consistent level pressure is used for the entire low octave, and one consistent higher level of pressure is used for the entire high octave. It's not so and in a way each note has its own exact pressure, but as I said there's a core of notes usually from low G to high F# (nearly an octave) that usually are about the same. Otherwise drones and regs could never be played in tune.
Anyhow when beginners have trouble with high notes it can be:
-not sealing the holes properly with the fingers (Make sure you seal the holes by using proper finger placement rather than extra pressure/tension. The hands must be relaxed.)
-not maintaining a steady enough pressure. Usually beginners blow hard enough to initially hit high notes, but they can't maintain them. This is solved by practicing LONG NOTES. Play up and down the scale from bottom D to high B, holding each note for at least 5 full seconds. If you can't do this you're not blowing steadily enough to play tunes on the pipes.
-a reed that's not properly adjusted, or in some cases a reed that's just a bad reed.
-not sealing the bottom of the chanter properly on the leather.
-not using proper "venting" to hit high A and high B. As others have already mentioned, on many chanters if you simply lift the A finger high A won't sound no matter what pressure you use and the note must be "vented". Since the one-finger-G usually ONLY sounds in the high octave, many pipers use that as the vent, lifting the index finger of the lower hand to sound high G then quickly bending off the A finger to glide up to high A. On my chanter high A is best in tune with those two fingers off anyway so I keep that lower-hand index finger off, or move it up and down for vibrato on high A.
High B is more difficult on many chanters, and you have to vent and glide up to high A as I just described but you keep gliding up to B. On my chanter if I simply lift my upper-hand middle and ring fingers off the chanter, B will fall to the low octave. I need to vent with the lower-hand index finger and do a nearly instantaneous and subtle glide up to B.
Leo Rowsome, in his tutor, advocated using the middle finger of the lower hand, the F# finger, for venting high A and high B.
Oh by the way Stephen, you say that you play flute and whistle so you have all the ornamentation sorted. This suggests that the ornamentation on the pipes is the same. Some is, but much isn't.
So flute/whistle players have perhaps around a third or a fourth of the ornamentation sorted when they come to the pipes.
For example, on the pipes you often use different cuts that you would on the whistle, and often different cuts are used on the same notes depending on whether the note being cut is in the low octave or the high octave.
Pipers do cuts with the thumb also.
Pats are also all over the place and often different from what a whistle/flute player would do.
Then there's the entire vocabulary of "tight" or "staccato" triplets that are unique to piping.
Also pipers do their articulations, their little silences between notes, with their fingers... on the whistle these are done with the tongue.
Richard put it very well when he said that the issues faced by new pipers are like a medical condition and best diagnosed in person.
Stephen, you don't say in your profile where you live but if there are pipers within a reasonable distance, it would be great if you could find them. Really good advice on this thread, but it's hard for us to know whether your issues are reed things, technique things, or a combination of both. Find a piper near you can.
Check NPU, there are not only pipers everywhere, like swine flu, but also hives of them, often called 'societies' in an attempt to be more socially acceptable to society... Only a mother could love them, and daft folk like myself...
Pipers are often drawn together for mutual support and inspiration, and in all sorts of out of the way places ~ one for sorrow, two for joy ~ if only between themselves...
Uillean Pipes Help
Uillean Pipes Help
Hi all.
Before i begin, i just want to point out that i play flute and tin whistle, and have all ornamentation sorted.
I would like basically for someone to post information and hints that could help me with playing the uilleann pipes. My problems are mainly reaching high notes, and maintaining them when i reach the upper octave.
I have the lower octave seen to, its just D' and up.
I am aware that not everything can simply be explained online, but i would really appreciate any advice that can be given.
Thanks again,
Stephen Power
# Posted on October 9th 2009 by Power27
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
Airtightness very often the solution to problems like this. Make certain your valves are all airtight and that your joints have enough thread wrapping on them. An airtight set of pipes is an easy set of pipes to play, reeds willing.
Make sure your reed is set up properly. See an expert piper or pipemaker for advice on adjusting your reed. 2nd octave difficulties could be caused by a reed that is too closed (it closes completely under pressure) or too open (it will play the second octave, but only grudgingly and with frequent drops). A good piper or pipemaker can show you how to adjust the reed as needed.
And study the venting technique, which is glissing up to those high notes from a lower note. Sometimes it's necessary to gliss from a g in order to hit a high b. Start on g and lift your ring and middle fingers of your top hand off the chanter
# Posted on October 9th 2009 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
Be aware that a considerable increase in pressure is usually needed to get the upper octave, the more so the higher you go. You don't have the luxury of tightening your embouchure, so the reed needs to be set vibrating differently. Make sure the chanter is properly sealed, all holes closed, before quickly raising the necessary finger(s). Once you are in the upper octave, a steady pressure should maintain it, but the slightest leak or drop in pressure, and the reed will return to the lower octave, and the chanter must be closed again before you can go back up. Increasing the pressure alone will not get you there. As SUS says, the higher notes, b and above, are usually got by sounding g or a and running up quickly from there. Practise doing octave jumps, Ee, Ff, Gg etc, To get the hang of the change in pressure.
# Posted on October 9th 2009 by gam
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
You might also want to make sure you're not using too hard of a reed. On notes above second octave F or G, you might need to slide into them from note directly below. Are there any pipers in your area? If not, you should check out the uilleann pipe forum at www.chiffboard.mati.ca .. Search the archives.
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by jonmilton
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
The sorts of issues new uilleann players have trouble with, like medical problems, are best diagnosed in person. When a student has any kind of chanter issue I usually need to play their chanter myself to find out if the problem is with the chanter/reed, or if the problem is something the student is doing.
I disagree with the statement above that "a considerable increase of pressure is usually needed to get the upper octave".
Chanters/reeds that are working well have a certain range, from G in the low octave to F# in the upper octave, that use about the same pressure. Beginners often get into the bad habit of using too little pressure in the low octave and too much pressure in the high octave, which when they begin using the drones is revealed.
In any case you should be able to go from A or B in the low octave to E or F# in the upper octave at about the same pressure. Then a tad more pressure is needed for high G (which many pipers play with only the index finger off, the "one finger G").
Then noticeably more pressure is needed for high A, and even more for high B. So, on many chanters, playing in the upper octave from F# to G to A to B will entail a bit of increase of pressure for each note.
Likewise in the low register a bit less pressure is often used for low F# and low E or they will break to the upper octave.
People not familiar with the uilleann pipes imagine that one consistent level pressure is used for the entire low octave, and one consistent higher level of pressure is used for the entire high octave. It's not so and in a way each note has its own exact pressure, but as I said there's a core of notes usually from low G to high F# (nearly an octave) that usually are about the same. Otherwise drones and regs could never be played in tune.
Anyhow when beginners have trouble with high notes it can be:
-not sealing the holes properly with the fingers (Make sure you seal the holes by using proper finger placement rather than extra pressure/tension. The hands must be relaxed.)
-not maintaining a steady enough pressure. Usually beginners blow hard enough to initially hit high notes, but they can't maintain them. This is solved by practicing LONG NOTES. Play up and down the scale from bottom D to high B, holding each note for at least 5 full seconds. If you can't do this you're not blowing steadily enough to play tunes on the pipes.
-a reed that's not properly adjusted, or in some cases a reed that's just a bad reed.
-not sealing the bottom of the chanter properly on the leather.
-not using proper "venting" to hit high A and high B. As others have already mentioned, on many chanters if you simply lift the A finger high A won't sound no matter what pressure you use and the note must be "vented". Since the one-finger-G usually ONLY sounds in the high octave, many pipers use that as the vent, lifting the index finger of the lower hand to sound high G then quickly bending off the A finger to glide up to high A. On my chanter high A is best in tune with those two fingers off anyway so I keep that lower-hand index finger off, or move it up and down for vibrato on high A.
High B is more difficult on many chanters, and you have to vent and glide up to high A as I just described but you keep gliding up to B. On my chanter if I simply lift my upper-hand middle and ring fingers off the chanter, B will fall to the low octave. I need to vent with the lower-hand index finger and do a nearly instantaneous and subtle glide up to B.
Leo Rowsome, in his tutor, advocated using the middle finger of the lower hand, the F# finger, for venting high A and high B.
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
Oh by the way Stephen, you say that you play flute and whistle so you have all the ornamentation sorted. This suggests that the ornamentation on the pipes is the same. Some is, but much isn't.
So flute/whistle players have perhaps around a third or a fourth of the ornamentation sorted when they come to the pipes.
For example, on the pipes you often use different cuts that you would on the whistle, and often different cuts are used on the same notes depending on whether the note being cut is in the low octave or the high octave.
Pipers do cuts with the thumb also.
Pats are also all over the place and often different from what a whistle/flute player would do.
Then there's the entire vocabulary of "tight" or "staccato" triplets that are unique to piping.
Also pipers do their articulations, their little silences between notes, with their fingers... on the whistle these are done with the tongue.
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
thanks very much everyone! I hadn't expected on getting such detailed replies.
Appreciate all the advice!
Stephen Power
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by Power27
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
Just another note of thanks, I enjoyed that read, constructive and well thought out and presented. ~ just 'c' in a pensive mood...
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
Richard put it very well when he said that the issues faced by new pipers are like a medical condition and best diagnosed in person.
Stephen, you don't say in your profile where you live but if there are pipers within a reasonable distance, it would be great if you could find them. Really good advice on this thread, but it's hard for us to know whether your issues are reed things, technique things, or a combination of both. Find a piper near you can.
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
Check NPU, there are not only pipers everywhere, like swine flu, but also hives of them, often called 'societies' in an attempt to be more socially acceptable to society... Only a mother could love them, and daft folk like myself...
NPU ~ which I suspect you'll already know of...
http://www.pipers.ie/
Pipers are often drawn together for mutual support and inspiration, and in all sorts of out of the way places ~ one for sorrow, two for joy ~ if only between themselves...
A lover of flat sets in particular ~ 'c'
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
stay away from the flute!hahaha
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by trad man
Re: Uillean Pipes Help
Hello.
I was wondering how you tune your chanter as my G in the lower octave is out of tune with the accordian etc.
# Posted on January 26th 2010 by stewart123