Reading through the "sharp sessions" post made me wonder about what happens as I advance into geezerhood; I know that my hearing is not quite what it was a few years ago.
When I play in a session, I wonder if I'm the one who is out of tune. I check my fiddle a lot between sets when things sound odd, but it holds tune very well, and sounds good...to me, relative to the dominate 'A". I've always been sensitive to out-of-tune anything, but I know my hearing just ain't what it used to be. So does your sense of intonation go, or just your ability to hear someone quietly **suggesting** that all is not well?
Since intonation is a relationship between tones, theoretically all should be well. But since older ears lose the ability to hear certain frequencies, does that drop-off in the richness of sound change how we hear that relationship?
The time to worry is when you can't hear notes at the dusty end of the fingerboard. Seriously though, intonation awareness is probably one of the last things to go, but we need input from an audiologist on this general topic.
At 50, I'm noticing a reduced sensitivity to the higher frequencies (lazyhound's dusty end of the fingerboard). But my sense of intonation seems fine. If anything, it's gotten better as I putter on (if I can trust feedback from people I play with).
According to Oliver Sacks in his book Musicophilia, intonation is a highly subjective and personal quality, and it can be affected by a number of diseases and disorders. In a notable case, one concertmaster's sense of pitch changed by a whole step, but only in the higher register. He had some sort of neurological disorder that came on with older age.
Seems to me that this could happen and you wouldn't realize it, unless others complained about your newly acquired bad ear.
There's a widespread aural illusion, spiced with a good dose of inferiority complex, that afflicts harmonica players. When things are intonationally not quite right in the session, they assume that it's always themselves. To their ear, it sounds like themselves. They then slink off to the toilet to investigate their harp in quiet surroundings. Miraculously, it is discovered that it was in fact not them. It never is. They quietly return to the bar and listen on the periphery for a minute, to discover the awful but routinely-tedious truth. It's the bloody fiddle player. Again.
May I suggest that the same insecurity about intonation -- or inferioity complex, as you put it -- isn't confined to harmonica players. You aren't alone in your paranoia.
I am Noticeing this more and more now ! To many Birthday's Likely, I am going to get myself a wee Digital
Tuner thingy soon - but would like one just for Fiddle
and Cheep - Any Ideas ?
When I use other guys { Guitar One's } I find it gives you a bit of a Chance at the start anyway !
jim,
Get a wee didgy thingie by all means, but whatever you do never ask a harmonica player for a note. I spend my life looking for paths to truth, and, verily, this is not one of them, the road less travelled though it be.
I play the accordion, harmonica, and a Clarke whistle, and sit in smug confidence that if someone needs to retune, they will have to retune to me!!!! As an old sailor once said to me, "I yam what I yam, and that's all what I yam!"
Tuning to a whistle just has to be even worse than tuning to a harmonica. As bad as tuning to a wet-tuned melodeon. We've all seen all these things done, haven't we?
Steve Shaw -
Thanks for the reply - In that case maybe I should go back to those wee 4 Pipes together
you use to get - an blow into - EADG - etc ..
jim,,
Batlady: there is a trick I learned from a piper years ago who was tuning up for a pibroch competition. Hold your nose and squeeze air into your ears. The higher frequencies are really boosted, I assume because of the increased pressure behind the ear drum. As soon as you swallow things return to normal, so you don't have long to check your tuning; but it might be worth a try.
Jim, I recently got one for noisy sessions; Center Pitch Universal CP2 TUNER, came in a couple days ago, ... Its probably the best. I got mine from the states, cheapest deal
I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Reading through the "sharp sessions" post made me wonder about what happens as I advance into geezerhood; I know that my hearing is not quite what it was a few years ago.
When I play in a session, I wonder if I'm the one who is out of tune. I check my fiddle a lot between sets when things sound odd, but it holds tune very well, and sounds good...to me, relative to the dominate 'A". I've always been sensitive to out-of-tune anything, but I know my hearing just ain't what it used to be. So does your sense of intonation go, or just your ability to hear someone quietly **suggesting** that all is not well?
Since intonation is a relationship between tones, theoretically all should be well. But since older ears lose the ability to hear certain frequencies, does that drop-off in the richness of sound change how we hear that relationship?
Post loudly, please.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Michele Sims
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
The time to worry is when you can't hear notes at the dusty end of the fingerboard. Seriously though, intonation awareness is probably one of the last things to go, but we need input from an audiologist on this general topic.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
At 50, I'm noticing a reduced sensitivity to the higher frequencies (lazyhound's dusty end of the fingerboard). But my sense of intonation seems fine. If anything, it's gotten better as I putter on (if I can trust feedback from people I play with).
According to Oliver Sacks in his book Musicophilia, intonation is a highly subjective and personal quality, and it can be affected by a number of diseases and disorders. In a notable case, one concertmaster's sense of pitch changed by a whole step, but only in the higher register. He had some sort of neurological disorder that came on with older age.
Seems to me that this could happen and you wouldn't realize it, unless others complained about your newly acquired bad ear.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
I was talking about the dusty end of the cello fingerboard
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
There's a widespread aural illusion, spiced with a good dose of inferiority complex, that afflicts harmonica players. When things are intonationally not quite right in the session, they assume that it's always themselves. To their ear, it sounds like themselves. They then slink off to the toilet to investigate their harp in quiet surroundings. Miraculously, it is discovered that it was in fact not them. It never is. They quietly return to the bar and listen on the periphery for a minute, to discover the awful but routinely-tedious truth. It's the bloody fiddle player. Again.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Harsh but true, Mr. Shaw.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
May I suggest that the same insecurity about intonation -- or inferioity complex, as you put it -- isn't confined to harmonica players. You aren't alone in your paranoia.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Be strong.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Batlady, can you get the opportunity to record one of your sessions? It is much easier to judge your performance at home while you're not playing.
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by All Moldy
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
I am Noticeing this more and more now ! To many Birthday's Likely, I am going to get myself a wee Digital
Tuner thingy soon - but would like one just for Fiddle
and Cheep - Any Ideas ?
When I use other guys { Guitar One's } I find it gives you a bit of a Chance at the start anyway !
jim,
# Posted on October 7th 2009 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Get a wee didgy thingie by all means, but whatever you do never ask a harmonica player for a note. I spend my life looking for paths to truth, and, verily, this is not one of them, the road less travelled though it be.
# Posted on October 8th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
I play the accordion, harmonica, and a Clarke whistle, and sit in smug confidence that if someone needs to retune, they will have to retune to me!!!! As an old sailor once said to me, "I yam what I yam, and that's all what I yam!"
# Posted on October 8th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Tuning to a whistle just has to be even worse than tuning to a harmonica. As bad as tuning to a wet-tuned melodeon. We've all seen all these things done, haven't we?
# Posted on October 8th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Steve Shaw -
Thanks for the reply - In that case maybe I should go back to those wee 4 Pipes together
you use to get - an blow into - EADG - etc ..
jim,,
# Posted on October 8th 2009 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Batlady: there is a trick I learned from a piper years ago who was tuning up for a pibroch competition. Hold your nose and squeeze air into your ears. The higher frequencies are really boosted, I assume because of the increased pressure behind the ear drum. As soon as you swallow things return to normal, so you don't have long to check your tuning; but it might be worth a try.
# Posted on October 8th 2009 by gam
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Batlady--
This I Must try at our next Session,,,,
jim,,
# Posted on October 8th 2009 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Interesting technique, gam. I will play around with that. I just hope that my eyeballs don't pop out or something....
8-*
# Posted on October 8th 2009 by Michele Sims
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
Jim, I recently got one for noisy sessions; Center Pitch Universal CP2 TUNER, came in a couple days ago, ... Its probably the best. I got mine from the states, cheapest deal
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: I'm in tune, but...my ears are older?
.... The best of the small cheap tuners I mean, the peterson strobe tuner is probably the best, but its pricey and quite large and cumbers
ome.
# Posted on October 10th 2009 by piobagusfidil