I am a decent whistler, able to play at session speed with a good selection of tunes. I'm thinking of getting a flute, what is a realistic time before being able to play the flute in sessions
There isn't really an answer to this - too many factors involved. If you're currently playing a low-D whistle AND can get the embouchure for the flute right away, you could jump in immediately. If you only play the high whistles and have never played the flute, you may NEVER get the hang of it (probably wouldn't happen with perseverance, though). There's an infinite range of possibilities. For myself, going from low-D to flute, including learning the embouchure, was probably a couple of months. However, I've been playing flute for a couple of years now and I'm still improving! It also depends on how much you practice - I usually play for almost an hour almost every day (yeah, I'm addicted to the damn hollow stick!!!). Good luck in the journey - it's worth it!
Pat
P.S. I wasn't that great on low-D whistle when I switched!
You have the advantage that, to start with, your tone will be weak and quiet making it easier to fit into sessions...
Problems will come when you start to play the upper end of the second octave and get the notes to sound by blowing harder, driving them sharp (and loud). This will annoy others in the session. Still, lots of whistlers do this too
Fingering might be a problem if you're not used to the stretch and the ergonomics of holding a flute need some careful thought and experimentation. Again, though nothing that can't be sorted out. Just fitting in with the session should be possible in a few months if you work on it, though as Pat says, YMMV.
You will never stop working on your embouchure, nor will you ever be satisfied with the sound you make - that is just the way of it!
Thanks for the info, I often play a low D whistle, fingering OK but right hand gets tired from the stretch after half an hour or so. Will just have to get the flute and start practising.
Thinking of getting a dixon 3 piece polymer, the price is reasonable and I've heard it's not a bad flute to start on.
As to finger stretch: If you buy a conical bore flute, you'll find there is no problem at all as the holes are closer together. If you get a cylindrical, such as a Tipple (highly recommended, btw), you can use a pipers' grip that I find easier to use than on the low whistle - probably something to do with the angle of the fingers.
You can probably play the flute right away if you are mainly into low whistles, and you choose to play it with the pipers grip. But you will not be able to get a good stable tone for at least 3 months of playing.
I'm a reasonably competent whistle player, if I'm kind to myself. I got myself a flute about 7 years ago. I initially felt as if I was making good progress and thought it would not be long before I could hold my own in a session - I was able to get tune out of it straight away. The stretch was a little uncomfortable after the high D whistle, but nothing I couldn't get used to. But the two main obstacles for me were:
i. my inability to hold the flute in such a way as to give my fingers the freedom to ornament in the way to which I was accustomed, yet keep it from rolling out of my hands (thus losing the embouchure - and the flute);
and
ii. the inability to play more than once through a tune without going dizzy
Perhaps, with perseverance and a few lessons from a good tutor, I could have been taking it out to sessions within a year or so. No doubt, both 'obstacles' could have been overcome with learned technique - and perhaps a certain amount of lying on the floor with the OED stacked up on my chest. But I am a primarily a string player (mandolin) and ultimately was not prepared to trade being a competent mandolin player for being a beginner on another instrument. So the whistle remains my only woodwind instrument.
In my case, the flute was a bit of a flash-in-the-pan - a subsidiary interest to another subsidiary interest. But, if you are passionate about it, I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to get to session standard on the flute. The time it takes shouldn't really matter.
Just done this - bought a flute in August graduating from reasonable Sop/LowD whistle to keyless flute. Playing flute in sessions now, keeping to airs and waltzes though!
Thanks for all the advice,
one more thing is there more air required for the flute comparable to a low D whistle. I know it depends on the flute, but just a ball park idea.
I'd say air required is fairly similar to a low whistle. I don't like high D whistle because there is such little resistance and I have 'too much' breath (I'm really a flute player).
A counter to those contending the switch took all of 10 minutes, I've been muddling through for two years and am still refining my technique (both fingering and embouchure). I'm thrilled to be where I am (compared to where I started out), but I still have a ways to go.
Two parting thoughts:
* There's no prize for getting there faster.
* The only player I aim to be better than is the player I was yesterday.
Air requirement ... (yes, I haven't hung myself yet - it's just a matter of time, though) ...
Flute takes way, way less air than low D whistle. For me, currently, it takes about the same as for high D whistle, but better flute players of my acquaintance say that it takes less than that.
For the first few weeks I just had to trust the experts on the 'uses no more air than a whistle' . During that time having to really work on breath capacity made a big difference to the high whistle playing. Then it started to show that air requirement is about lip muscles, not lungs.
It's interesting to see the different things all going on under the same heading here.
Waltcamp - you find yourself on a journey which hasn't yet reached an end and I suggest it never will. You are trying to get "better" - whatever that means. There is nothing wrong with this approach, but it is different from mine. I can play to a standard which I and other people find acceptable - so I have got where I was going and it is a great place to be, even though it is very likely that I may not be nearly as accomplished a player as you are.
Fournes' original question was "what is a realistic time before being able to play the flute in sessions".
If anyone turns up at our session and (politely at an appropriate moment) says that they have just started the flute and then plays stumblingly through just one simple tune, they will get a big encouraging cheer from the assembled company, and will be encouraged to come again next week and play it again.
Fournes - if you come to our session with your flute still in its wrapper, we'd all be there helping you to get your first note out of it.
Go to sessions where friends play music together, rather than where egos go to show off, and you will find - as I have - the place where some people spend all their lives vainly trying to reach.
In our session Music is something we do with each other, not to each other.
I hope people aren't put off by this, but when I started playing Irish flute, self-taught, back in the 70's, I found it very helpful to have an ordinary classical/orchestral/Boehm flute book that talked about embouchure formation.
Whether it's the Irish flute or the Boehm flute the embouchure has the same issue: focusing the air stream, and aiming that focused air stream and the right place.
Later I took a couple lessons with a normal flute teacher. I told her up front what I was about, playing Irish flute, and I played a tape of Matt Molloy for her (which she really liked). I learned a lot about getting a more focused sound in just two lessons.
By the way a lot of "normal" flute teachers do have experience with wood flutes, because many of them own and play Baroque flutes.
The other issues that Irish fluteplaying shares with Boehm fluteplaying are: having control over volume, playing in tune, "support" (the whole issue of the air coming up from the diaphragm and not the throat or upper lungs), and many others.
All of these issues having nothing to do with the style of Irish fluteplaying so don't worry about being corrupted or something.
Now I remember that once the lips started working a bit better there was a brief phase of wondering if my eyes would pop out when playing the second octave. Its a sign of doing it wrong. The experts were right again.
showaddydadito - fair points and all true. I guess you could say my goal is to reach the point where I'm able to focus 98% on the music and 2% of the mechanics of the instrument.
After six or seven years of playing the whistle, I'm probably focusing 80% on the music and 20% on the instrument.
After two or three years of playing the flute, I'm at 50/50 (on a good day). I have a long way to go, but what a wonderful road to travel!
Hello to all, I received my Tony Dixon 3 piece flute this morning, and have spent a little time getting to know it. It seems like it'll take a couple of months to get it sounding well. I can get a decent sound from low E to high G, but the sound of the low D is not good, cats outside are answering me............. any hints ?
Patience, practice, persistence - in my case, it took me a while to figure out how best to finger the holes, and my embouchure is still spotty. Keep at it!
Look at it this way ... how long did it take you to become proficient on the whistle? I figure you should multiply that by two or three (at a minimum) given the additional demands of playing the flute as compared to the whistle.
how long from whistle to flute
how long from whistle to flute
I am a decent whistler, able to play at session speed with a good selection of tunes. I'm thinking of getting a flute, what is a realistic time before being able to play the flute in sessions
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Fournes
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Me 2. 'Cept only 1/2 decent whistler.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: how long from whistle to flute
There isn't really an answer to this - too many factors involved. If you're currently playing a low-D whistle AND can get the embouchure for the flute right away, you could jump in immediately. If you only play the high whistles and have never played the flute, you may NEVER get the hang of it (probably wouldn't happen with perseverance, though). There's an infinite range of possibilities. For myself, going from low-D to flute, including learning the embouchure, was probably a couple of months. However, I've been playing flute for a couple of years now and I'm still improving! It also depends on how much you practice - I usually play for almost an hour almost every day (yeah, I'm addicted to the damn hollow stick!!!). Good luck in the journey - it's worth it!
Pat
P.S. I wasn't that great on low-D whistle when I switched!
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by plunk111
Re: how long from whistle to flute
You have the advantage that, to start with, your tone will be weak and quiet making it easier to fit into sessions...
Problems will come when you start to play the upper end of the second octave and get the notes to sound by blowing harder, driving them sharp (and loud). This will annoy others in the session. Still, lots of whistlers do this too
Fingering might be a problem if you're not used to the stretch and the ergonomics of holding a flute need some careful thought and experimentation. Again, though nothing that can't be sorted out. Just fitting in with the session should be possible in a few months if you work on it, though as Pat says, YMMV.
You will never stop working on your embouchure, nor will you ever be satisfied with the sound you make - that is just the way of it!
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Crackpot
Re: how long from whistle to flute
If you have a full set of teeth and are under 40 and put in the work shouldn't take more than 6 months to get competent.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by mariaphilmurphy
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Thanks for the info, I often play a low D whistle, fingering OK but right hand gets tired from the stretch after half an hour or so. Will just have to get the flute and start practising.
Thinking of getting a dixon 3 piece polymer, the price is reasonable and I've heard it's not a bad flute to start on.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Fournes
Re: how long from whistle to flute
I'm depressed now. 9 months in and haven't got it yet.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: how long from whistle to flute
I got it first try.
Not a boast - just an observation of what happened.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Fournes:
As to finger stretch: If you buy a conical bore flute, you'll find there is no problem at all as the holes are closer together. If you get a cylindrical, such as a Tipple (highly recommended, btw), you can use a pipers' grip that I find easier to use than on the low whistle - probably something to do with the angle of the fingers.
Pat
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by plunk111
Re: how long from whistle to flute
You can probably play the flute right away if you are mainly into low whistles, and you choose to play it with the pipers grip. But you will not be able to get a good stable tone for at least 3 months of playing.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by -Abraxas
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Fournes
We're all different, and some people are clearly telling you here that your experience WILL be the same as theirs.
My experience is different from Abraxas - I had a note on the first try, and a "good stable tone" within a couple of hours.
I do not choose to make any claims about how you will get on, but I wish you good luck.
Dave
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: how long from whistle to flute
6 months. 3 months. 2 months. "I got it straight away." I'm off to hang myself now. You'll read about it in the papers.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: how long from whistle to flute
About 20 cm I expect
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Wait Wait !!!!!
Don't go and hang yourself til you've heard this bit:
I hardly ever play it.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: how long from whistle to flute
I'm a reasonably competent whistle player, if I'm kind to myself. I got myself a flute about 7 years ago. I initially felt as if I was making good progress and thought it would not be long before I could hold my own in a session - I was able to get tune out of it straight away. The stretch was a little uncomfortable after the high D whistle, but nothing I couldn't get used to. But the two main obstacles for me were:
i. my inability to hold the flute in such a way as to give my fingers the freedom to ornament in the way to which I was accustomed, yet keep it from rolling out of my hands (thus losing the embouchure - and the flute);
and
ii. the inability to play more than once through a tune without going dizzy
Perhaps, with perseverance and a few lessons from a good tutor, I could have been taking it out to sessions within a year or so. No doubt, both 'obstacles' could have been overcome with learned technique - and perhaps a certain amount of lying on the floor with the OED stacked up on my chest. But I am a primarily a string player (mandolin) and ultimately was not prepared to trade being a competent mandolin player for being a beginner on another instrument. So the whistle remains my only woodwind instrument.
In my case, the flute was a bit of a flash-in-the-pan - a subsidiary interest to another subsidiary interest. But, if you are passionate about it, I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to get to session standard on the flute. The time it takes shouldn't really matter.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Just done this - bought a flute in August graduating from reasonable Sop/LowD whistle to keyless flute. Playing flute in sessions now, keeping to airs and waltzes though!
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Elmwood161
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Thanks for all the advice,
one more thing is there more air required for the flute comparable to a low D whistle. I know it depends on the flute, but just a ball park idea.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Fournes
Re: how long from whistle to flute
I'd say air required is fairly similar to a low whistle. I don't like high D whistle because there is such little resistance and I have 'too much' breath (I'm really a flute player).
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by Bredna
Re: how long from whistle to flute
A counter to those contending the switch took all of 10 minutes, I've been muddling through for two years and am still refining my technique (both fingering and embouchure). I'm thrilled to be where I am (compared to where I started out), but I still have a ways to go.
Two parting thoughts:
* There's no prize for getting there faster.
* The only player I aim to be better than is the player I was yesterday.
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by waltcamp45
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Air requirement ... (yes, I haven't hung myself yet - it's just a matter of time, though) ...
Flute takes way, way less air than low D whistle. For me, currently, it takes about the same as for high D whistle, but better flute players of my acquaintance say that it takes less than that.
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by ethical blend
Re: how long from whistle to flute
I started on flute, then took up whistle. Some tunes work for me as whistle tunes, others sit better on the flute. Anyone else find this?
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by minijackpot
Re: how long from whistle to flute
For the first few weeks I just had to trust the experts on the 'uses no more air than a whistle' . During that time having to really work on breath capacity made a big difference to the high whistle playing. Then it started to show that air requirement is about lip muscles, not lungs.
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by David50
Re: how long from whistle to flute
It's interesting to see the different things all going on under the same heading here.
Waltcamp - you find yourself on a journey which hasn't yet reached an end and I suggest it never will. You are trying to get "better" - whatever that means. There is nothing wrong with this approach, but it is different from mine. I can play to a standard which I and other people find acceptable - so I have got where I was going and it is a great place to be, even though it is very likely that I may not be nearly as accomplished a player as you are.
Fournes' original question was "what is a realistic time before being able to play the flute in sessions".
If anyone turns up at our session and (politely at an appropriate moment) says that they have just started the flute and then plays stumblingly through just one simple tune, they will get a big encouraging cheer from the assembled company, and will be encouraged to come again next week and play it again.
Fournes - if you come to our session with your flute still in its wrapper, we'd all be there helping you to get your first note out of it.
Go to sessions where friends play music together, rather than where egos go to show off, and you will find - as I have - the place where some people spend all their lives vainly trying to reach.
In our session Music is something we do with each other, not to each other.
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Having cross posted with david_h I just want to second what he says - it's about way you shape your lips.
Posh people say Omboosher at this point.
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: how long from whistle to flute
I hope people aren't put off by this, but when I started playing Irish flute, self-taught, back in the 70's, I found it very helpful to have an ordinary classical/orchestral/Boehm flute book that talked about embouchure formation.
Whether it's the Irish flute or the Boehm flute the embouchure has the same issue: focusing the air stream, and aiming that focused air stream and the right place.
Later I took a couple lessons with a normal flute teacher. I told her up front what I was about, playing Irish flute, and I played a tape of Matt Molloy for her (which she really liked). I learned a lot about getting a more focused sound in just two lessons.
By the way a lot of "normal" flute teachers do have experience with wood flutes, because many of them own and play Baroque flutes.
The other issues that Irish fluteplaying shares with Boehm fluteplaying are: having control over volume, playing in tune, "support" (the whole issue of the air coming up from the diaphragm and not the throat or upper lungs), and many others.
All of these issues having nothing to do with the style of Irish fluteplaying so don't worry about being corrupted or something.
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Now I remember that once the lips started working a bit better there was a brief phase of wondering if my eyes would pop out when playing the second octave. Its a sign of doing it wrong. The experts were right again.
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by David50
Re: how long from whistle to flute
showaddydadito - fair points and all true. I guess you could say my goal is to reach the point where I'm able to focus 98% on the music and 2% of the mechanics of the instrument.
After six or seven years of playing the whistle, I'm probably focusing 80% on the music and 20% on the instrument.
After two or three years of playing the flute, I'm at 50/50 (on a good day). I have a long way to go, but what a wonderful road to travel!
# Posted on October 1st 2009 by waltcamp45
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Hello to all, I received my Tony Dixon 3 piece flute this morning, and have spent a little time getting to know it. It seems like it'll take a couple of months to get it sounding well. I can get a decent sound from low E to high G, but the sound of the low D is not good, cats outside are answering me............. any hints ?
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Fournes
Re: how long from whistle to flute
Fournes,
Patience, practice, persistence - in my case, it took me a while to figure out how best to finger the holes, and my embouchure is still spotty. Keep at it!
Look at it this way ... how long did it take you to become proficient on the whistle? I figure you should multiply that by two or three (at a minimum) given the additional demands of playing the flute as compared to the whistle.
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by waltcamp45